WEBVTT - Balloon Train 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:04.760 Strange Arrivals is a production of I Heart three D 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:16.800 audio for full exposure, Listen with headphones. In the heart 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:20.640 of the Great Southwest, between Arizona and Texas and bordering 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.919 on the Republic of Mexico, lies the Sunshine State. In 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:27.360 this land of ours, the state of New Mexico, one 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:29.880 of the largest, yet one of the least populated, of 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.559 all of our states. New Mexico was admitted to the 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:40.159 Union as recently as nineteen twelve. Since Coronado brought the 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:43.360 first horses and sheep into the territory, the raising of 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:47.040 live stock has been one of New Mexico's most important industries. 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:52.360 At one time, sheep dominated the state's agricultural life, leading 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:57.120 clothing and helping support her people. Today, cattle are perhaps 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.720 of equal importance. The cattle round up is a familiar 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:04.400 site in the Great Southwest, Cowboys driving the cattle of 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:08.360 shipping points along the railroad and along the way. A 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:15.960 man's got to eat. That grub is plenty good too, Hey, partner, 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:39.959 I'm Toby Ball and this is Strange Arrivals Episode nine. 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:47.400 The Land of Enchantment, the beginning of the modern UFO era, 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:51.400 is generally pegged to Kenneth Arnold's UFO sighting around Mount 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:57.800 Rainier in but arguably the most famous UFO event in history, 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.920 took place less than three weeks later in Roswell, New Mexico. 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:06.320 I'm sure the story is familiar, at least in its outline, 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.239 but you may have the sense that it has played 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.280 an important part in UFO lore since the wreckage of 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.400 something was found in the scrub on mac Brazil's ranch. 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:21.760 But that's not the case, retired Air Force pilot James mcgahey, 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:26.840 The Roswell incident was never in Project Blue Book. It 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.480 wasn't a case in there. It was never investigated by 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:34.880 the United States Air Force. Earlier this season, we heard 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.639 Joe Nicol talk about his model of the Roswellian syndrome. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:44.840 It's a five step process that some UFO stories undergo. First, 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:52.560 there's a UFO encounter. Second, the encounter is quickly explained. Third, 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:58.040 the story doesn't really go away, it just goes underground. Fourth, 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.959 While underground, the or is subjected to what Nickel calls 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:08.560 myth making processes, as some mixture of rumors, changing memories, hoaxing, 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:14.240 and so on is added to the original story. Finally, five, 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.880 the story resurfaces in a new form that explains away 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:23.839 the original skeptical explanation. I don't want to spend much 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.920 time on the actual seven Roswell event since many of 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:31.760 you probably know all about it, so here's a brief recap. 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:39.080 Skeptical investigator Joe Nicol. The Roswell incident really started on 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:44.280 July the eights in when a whip behind the years 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:49.640 press officer put out a press release claiming the recovery 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:54.720 of a quote unquote flying disc. The local paper, the 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.960 Roswell Daily Record, ran a story about how Mac Brazil 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.600 had come into town on with a collection of wreckage 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.840 that had been strewn over a large area of his ranch. 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:09.800 This wreckage consisted of sticks, tape, pieces of rubber, and 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:13.880 foil paper. Were these the remains of a crash flying saucer? 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:18.000 The newspaper quickly printed an update with an explanation for 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:24.080 what was the weather boat and the material sticks tape, rubber, 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:30.200 foiled paper. We're from a weather boat, weather device, and 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:37.000 that pretty much debunked the whole affair and was basically 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:41.840 the death knill to that story. From a wo R 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:46.680 news report else where, the spot of seeing flying sauces 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.520 or disks was left behind. In the excitement over the 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.440 discovery on the ground of a number of objects resembling 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.960 desks or sauces. One object found on the ranch near Roswell, 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.040 New Mexico, turned out to be a battered army weather below. 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.000 But I have to pause here and say that the 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:06.840 story that it was a weather balloon was not true. 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.840 And here is a controversy in the whole Roswell story 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.640 whether the people who said it was a weather balloon 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:22.640 were sincerely mistaken or whether they knew what it really was. 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:27.360 And we're putting out a false story. But what was 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:33.880 actually found at mc brazil's ranch instead of a weather balloon, 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:39.920 and i'll lower my voice, here was a secret United 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:48.799 States government spy balloon from something called Project mokel James mcgahey. 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.520 So the whole story ended at that point. The Air 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.359 Force put out a statement saying it was just a 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.560 weather balloon. Now it was a bit more than a 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:03.640 weather a loon in one sense. There was a secret 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:09.280 classified project going on at Alama Gordo called Project Mogul, 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:14.640 which was actually top secret a way to release some 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:20.880 instrumentation in to the high atmosphere at six thousand feet 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:25.960 carried up by a number of regular weather blooms. In 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:29.799 this case, it was like twenty three weather balloons connected 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:33.200 together in a six foot train. And they have been 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.560 doing this for a while, and on one of their 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:39.680 missions they lost the weather below train when it came down, 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:44.000 and it just so happened to come down on the 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.640 ranch at which the rancher found this debreeding got drug 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.880 across the desert, and that was sort of the story. 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:58.479 But anyway, the story was was appropriately deboned, but the 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:03.159 secrecy of local begins to work its way into the 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:07.359 story to make more of a conspiracy tale. But what 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:13.800 happened the whole story went underground, and then there were 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:17.640 lots of rumors and various things around Roswell, and there's 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:22.560 some other Air Force tests that happened years later causing 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:27.400 all kinds of effects of a local population believing this. 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:33.760 And then finally a UFO believer, Stanton Freedman, found the 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:41.120 intel officer from the original event. This intel officer was 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.920 Jesse Marcel, who was a major at Roswell Army Air 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:53.400 Force Base. He was a TV repairman, and he told 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.480 a slightly different story about what had happened those U 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:03.360 thirty one years before. Here's Jesse Marcel talking about the 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:07.360 materials he saw from the crash site. It was not 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.920 anything from this earth that I'm quite sure of, because 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:12.880 I was bigger and tell us almost I was familiar 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:15.360 just about all of the two he was in aircraft 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:19.240 and our air travel. And then a number of books 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:21.400 got written about it, and it became one of the 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:26.840 most famous UFO cases in history. In Bill Moore and 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:31.800 Charles Burlitt's published a book called The Roswell Incident, which 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.640 reintroduced the crash story to the public. The book not 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.520 only tells the story, but introduces new elements that are 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:43.560 now familiar, such as government cover up and alien bodies. 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:48.280 Though not credited as an author, Stanton Friedman was one 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:52.480 of the primary researchers. Here he is talking about the 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:57.240 work he and Moore did. I'm the original civilian investigator 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:01.600 about the Roswell incidents. Starting in Night Dylan, I located 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:03.959 sixty two people. Within the next year and a half 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.080 we were connected with the story. The first book came out, 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:13.120 Crash at Corona, laid out the claim that what was 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.840 found on mac Braswell's ranch was not a top secret balloon, 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:20.959 but a flying saucerer, and that alien bodies were recovered. 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.880 This was the basis on which the new Roswell mythology 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.760 was formed and from which it grew. Can we get 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:34.240 this elaborate story of the Christ flying saucer and alien 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:38.880 bodies and the alien bodies? This was an old done 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:42.400 in one story. You know, these are handed on and 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:47.080 the aliens were kept at some secret location, and pretty 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.520 soon there's another Christ site that we've never heard of, 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.760 and so on. This is just what happens over time. 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.920 I got my doctorate in English literature and folklore. Folk 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:06.520 Ors know that given enough time, stories proliferate and told 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:11.040 and retold and retold, and you will get these very 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:15.360 different versions of a story that you can recognize though 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:20.320 that's the same story, but it's now a very different 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:24.600 version of the same story. The Roswell Crash dates back 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.640 almost seventy five years. It has been in the public 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:31.160 eye for about forty. It is the most famous UFO 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:35.280 case in history. As David Clark said earlier in this season, 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:40.160 really what can you say about wasn't being said, But 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.719 it turns out that people still have plenty to say 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:45.920 about Roswell and it fits with the dynamic that we 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:50.320 looked at in the Ryndolshom Forest incident. There remains no 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.640 public insensus for what happened at Roswell, whether the debris 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.640 found there was from a secret balloon program or a 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.520 crash flying saucer, and that leaves room for stories to 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:06.959 be proffered, evaluated, and neither absorbed into the folklore or forgotten. 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.400 I talked to Ryan Sprague, the host of the Somewhere 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.640 in the Skies podcast, about a number of topics for 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.560 this season, and he told me about some work he 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:21.400 had done for a television show about Roswell, and without 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.080 trying to evaluate the merits of the evidence he saw 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:28.120 and stories he heard, his experience shows how the Roswell's 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:33.880 story remains dynamic. I had the opportunity to do an 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:39.480 independent investigation on Roosvelt, and this is for a television network, 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.200 and I told them off the bat, I said, look, 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:45.520 if there's nothing new that you've discovered or you want 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:47.440 me to look into, I don't want to be a 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:51.760 part of this because it's Roswell. People know this, they've 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.240 seen it a million times, and I don't want to 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.400 be connected to it. If we're just rehashing the same 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.880 stuff over and over. And to their credit, the rees 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.320 archers on this television program, working in conjunction with me 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:08.800 and my co investigator, a private investigator and Navy veteran, 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:13.600 we found new evidence. We flew to Roswell. We met 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:18.960 with a geologist who claimed to have debris from a 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.880 possible crash of a craft and that was it for me. 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.760 Man the minute this guy said he had physical evidence 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.040 that he found, presumably at the Roswey UFO crash site, 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.440 I needed to see it. The guy with the evidence 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:36.600 was Frank Kimbler, an associate professor of Earth science at 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.600 New Mexico Military Institute. He has appeared in a number 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:45.760 of UFO documentaries and television shows. We went right to 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:50.280 the military institute where this geologist taught, and he showed 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:55.199 us exactly how he found the location where the crash happened. 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.400 Kimbler claimed that he had found metals a couple of 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.360 feet beneath the surface of the crowd our site. He 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.760 also said he had found buttons consistent with army uniforms 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.640 at the same time at the same site, and then 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.640 he showed us the medals at first glance, it looked 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:17.160 like any other metal out there, so that was, you know, 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.400 a little I guess deflating for me. We brought it 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:24.920 to a prominent aerospace lab in California and had attested 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.959 and that's where things got really interesting. We got the 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:36.000 results back and while the result didn't scream alien, what 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:40.560 you found is alien or extraterrestrial. The composition and the 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:44.360 makeup of the medal that he claims is what he 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:52.199 found in this desert. It was manufactured, and the alloys 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:56.880 within this medal where things we can only dream of 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:03.280 our aerospace flabs using right now. So again, if this 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.160 was found in the desert in nineteen or had been 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:11.160 underground for fifty something years, it was what is being 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:16.000 used on our most sophisticated aerospace technology and shuttles right now. 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:21.000 So that begs the question. Was this some highly secretive 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:25.600 advanced spacecraft that America was working on at the time, 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.640 It had a crash, they needed to clean it up. 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.040 Let's use this alien thing as a cover story possibly? 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.200 Or what is it? Or it could be from an 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:39.320 alien spacecraft or it could be an advanced modern alloy. 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:43.360 The Kimbler only says he found in the desert. There 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.920 was one other experience that I've never really shared with anyone. 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:52.840 My investigative partner Jennifer Marshall and I we were unbreak 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:57.480 during filming for this television show and we're covering was 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:01.360 it Aliens? Was it? This a guy in the town 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.280 of Roswell. He comes up to us, he sees in 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.280 our camera crew, and he starts asking questions, as anyone 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.320 in a small town would when outsiders come in and 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:15.040 you seek cameras and all of this. This guy asked 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.280 what Ryan's angle on the show is going to be. 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:20.880 Is he going to claim it was an extraterrestrial craft? 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:27.080 Ryan says, not necessarily, and he's like, well, I could 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.320 tell you this it was an aliens and that perked 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:34.040 our interest and they're like, okay, well what do you 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.480 think it was? And he said, look, everyone in this 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:40.080 town knows everybody. We all had a friend or a 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:44.440 family member who was directly involved with that incident. He said, 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:48.440 for me, it was my great grandfather, and I can 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.320 tell you right now it was not aliens. So of 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:53.560 course we're going to press him on that. We're like, okay, well, 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.520 what was it? What was it? And he went into 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:00.080 this story that I'd heard in the past, but I 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.360 didn't put much credence into it. This was a very early, 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:08.400 top secret program for spaceflight. I mean we're talking the 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:14.880 early early days of high altitude tests and whatnot. So 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:22.480 this guy told us that the American government, we're using individuals, 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:27.440 children to be specific, who were runaways or who were 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.800 um left to the corners of society, whether they were 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:37.280 mentally disabled or physically disabful, and they would use these kids, 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.760 put them in these high altitude balloons or or craft 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.280 of some sort, and send them up to see how 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:49.000 far they could survive in the atmosphere. And one of 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.920 these things came down and that's what they found on 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:57.560 the ranch and Roswell. This is a pretty dark story, obviously, 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:02.080 and as Ryan says, it's a variation on an existing 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:06.359 story about test flights and crashes and government cover up 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:11.119 of advanced weapons systems. And that's why so many military 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.879 officials claimed we've seen bodies at the time, and that 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.840 they were they didn't look human. If we're going to 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.600 go back to this idea that they could have been children, 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:24.200 they were very small, some of them had physical disabilities. 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.080 So these are two stories from one person who is 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:32.679 actively involved in looking at the UFO phenomenon. You'll notice 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:35.800 that the stories point to different explanations for the crash, 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:42.080 use different methods of authentication, and are mutually exclusive. One 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.800 explanation points to either an advanced military craft of some 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:50.000 sort or an alien vehicle, and supports this story with 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:54.480 a piece of alleged physical evidence. The other story takes 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:57.080 the evidence that the wreckage was from a high altitude 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.840 balloon and adds the part about children being victimized in 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:06.800 a terrible experiment. These explanations cannot both be true, but 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.320 these are the kind of stories that keep the Roswell 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:14.440 legend going, creating new narratives or adding twists to old narratives. 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.800 My sense is that there's no pulling the Roswell incident 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:23.560 back to the original story that was reported in the 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:26.960 legend is too deeply ingrained in our culture at this point. 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:32.320 There are innumerable books and episodes of television programs about Roswell. 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.040 A series of young adult books about human looking alien 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.159 teenagers at Roswell High School that was turned into a 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:44.520 TV show, The Alien Autopsy Special of Fox Television, The 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:49.040 Alien Autopsy version of The Child's Game Operation, an annual 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:54.760 UFO Festival and on and on. It is the foundational 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:58.280 event from which our perception of the government and UFOs sprang. 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:02.680 And it's a special interesting that when the story reserviced 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:08.280 in it was brought back by civilian researchers. When Project 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:13.040 Bluebook closed and with it the official government inquiry into UFOs, 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:17.760 the impetus for investigation fell on people outside the government, 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.560 and while civilians took the lead in the nineteen seventies 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.080 and eighties, the Air Force was not content to leave 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.760 them to their own devices, and the efforts undertaken by 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:32.720 the Air Force to undermine this civilian research has played 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:37.359 a role in shaping our understanding of UFOs today after 0:19:37.400 --> 0:20:01.960 the break. One of the stranger aspects of the developing 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.399 folklore was the part that the US government and in 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:10.800 particularly the Air Force, played in advancing disinformation about UFOs. 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:14.680 We're going to look at some of the alleged instances 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:18.879 of this disinformation campaign in the next few episodes. A 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.720 lot of the insight we have into this effort comes 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:27.160 from the tricky figure of Richard Doughty. I'm Richard Doughty. 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:30.800 I'm a former intelligence officer with the Air Force Office 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:36.520 Special Investigations. I worked in intelligence from nine seventy eight 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:40.399 to nine. I was in the regular Air Force for 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:44.199 four years. I went to college. After college, I was 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:49.320 recruited in the Intelligence Service and I worked at Curtland 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:53.520 Air Force Base here now Buquerque. I worked at DEBT 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.320 three Flight Test Center and what you call what they 0:20:56.359 --> 0:21:00.320 call Area fifty one in Nevada. The Air Force often 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:05.000 Special Investigations is the criminal investigative arm of the United 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:10.920 States airf Force. They investigate criminal activities, fraud activities, and 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.639 counter intelligence counter espionage. And that's what I did. I 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:20.760 did exclusively just counterintelligence and counter espionage for a FOS I. 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:25.480 Richard Doughty is an important figure in our story because 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:29.560 he admittedly passed disinformation to the UFO community in the 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:34.080 nineteen eighties, and this disinformation became part of the greater 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:39.080 UFO narrative. But when listening to him, it's very important 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:41.800 to remember that his job was to lie to people 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:45.600 about UFOs, and there's no reason to believe that he's 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:49.280 telling the truth now. I interviewed him over the course 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.840 of about two hours about a number of subjects and 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:55.080 found that when he was talking about people that he 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:59.000 knew and operations he was involved in. What he said 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:02.119 often lined up what others involved in these incidents have 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:06.960 written or said. When the conversation strayed into the subject 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:11.320 of actual UFOs and alien contact, I definitely felt that 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:14.160 he was promoting the same false stories that he has 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:18.600 for decades. So as we look at some of these intrigues, 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:22.359 particularly in the nineteen eighties, I want to be very 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:24.840 clear that many of the claims that he makes are 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:28.040 in keeping with his past as an agent of disinformation, 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:32.439 and as we talked about earlier in the season, whether 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:35.240 the story he is telling is factual or not is 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.879 less important than the story itself, but don't take his 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:43.840 claims about aliens as factual. With that said, I didn't 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:47.640 ask Rick specifically about Roswell, but it came up when 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:50.000 I asked him about how he was oriented to his 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:54.720 job infiltrating the UFO community. At the time, he was 0:22:54.760 --> 0:22:58.320 stationed at Curland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico, 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:02.600 an enormous facilit of the encompassing about eighties square miles. 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.800 While stationed at Curtland, there was an incident that occurred 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:12.520 in a remote secretive area of the base, and it 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:18.679 fell within my purview of counterintelligence operation, so I didn't 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:23.120 have a proper clearance to access to certain information pertaining 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:27.600 to this. So I was then briefed into the program. 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:34.560 And the program involved the United States government's knowledge in 0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:39.399 contacts with extra trustrials, the investigation of UFO activities on 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:43.320 or near a base or all all over the United States. 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:46.280 It was a highly classified program. I had to get 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:49.960 a special clearance for it. The films and the briefings 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:52.719 that we obtained, it was just wasn't just me. There 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:55.000 were some others in the room and we were being 0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:58.440 briefed pertained to the United States involvement with E T 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:03.440 S and UFOs from on and this was in Vight. 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:07.320 So the briefing brought us right up to the current 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:11.600 nineteen seventy eight at that point, and that um explained 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:15.879 to us that Roswell happened. Incident Roswell happened. There are 0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:19.399 two crashes, one at cronin New Mexico, which was north 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:24.240 of Roswell in the second one out west of Magdalena 0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:30.840 Polona's Peak, which was south of horse Mesa. The Roswell 0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:34.760 of the Corona crash was found almost immediately in July 0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:40.080 of n but the other crash in uh western part 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:44.520 of New Mexico wasn't found until nine. The UFO crashed 0:24:44.560 --> 0:24:48.879 in a very very remote area of New Mexico and 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:52.639 no one really had access to that area. In and 0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:55.359 rancher was taken his cows to a higher pasture and 0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:59.520 he located it. In seven we the Army was involved 0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:04.520 in recovering a craft that crashed Necrona, New Mexico with 0:25:04.920 --> 0:25:08.840 four bodies for dead bodies of E. T s and 0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:13.440 one live body that live creature found in the craft. 0:25:14.040 --> 0:25:18.400 It was later called by the government an extra trustrial 0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:23.240 biological entity or EBA, and he remained into captivity at 0:25:23.320 --> 0:25:28.200 Los Alamos until two when he died. So this will 0:25:28.240 --> 0:25:31.919 be the beginning of a pattern. Doughty takes ideas that 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:35.919 are already out there in the UFO culture, the Roswell crash, 0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:39.840 the recovery of bodies, even the existence of a live et, 0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:44.040 and puts them in an official context, in this case 0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:48.720 a top secret Air Force briefing. Doughty says he was 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:53.080 briefed at Kirtland Air Force Base in about the government's 0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:58.800 involvement with UFOs in seven or seventy eight. A man 0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:02.360 who lived just out side the base named Paul Benowitz 0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:07.200 started seeing some strange lights in the night sky. Author 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:11.280 of the two thousand and five book Project Beta, Greg Bishop. 0:26:12.280 --> 0:26:14.719 Paul benn and Witz was an electrical physicist. He had 0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:18.200 his own business in Albuquerque, New Mexico. It still exists. 0:26:18.280 --> 0:26:23.359 He's deceased now. The business is called Thunder Scientific and 0:26:23.400 --> 0:26:27.800 it is located just outside Curtland Air Force Base. He 0:26:27.840 --> 0:26:32.680 had a government contract. He made censors and humidity sensors 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:37.000 and other types of sensors. Paul lived in the Four 0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:41.600 Hills area of Albuquerque, which is right outside Curland Air 0:26:41.680 --> 0:26:45.800 Force Base. His backyard butted up against the perimeter of 0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:48.720 the base. You can see the most of the north 0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:51.480 part of the Curtland Air Force Space from his house. 0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:55.720 From his his top deck porch in Albuquerque, he'd go 0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:57.920 out on his porch at night near the Air Force 0:26:57.960 --> 0:27:01.480 space and he can see lights flying around. So he 0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:04.440 started making films of these and I think some video, 0:27:04.480 --> 0:27:08.360 but this was nine when they started or so. Most 0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:10.200 things were done on film. So I had eight millimeter 0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:13.359 film mostly of these lights lifting up off the ground 0:27:13.359 --> 0:27:17.760 and then taking off and going behind this mountain now 0:27:18.520 --> 0:27:22.720 not far from where the perimeter is located is a 0:27:22.720 --> 0:27:26.520 place called Manzano Storage Area. It was one of the 0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:30.160 largest nuclear weapons storage areas in the United States, probably 0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:33.359 in a free world. And there were other classified things 0:27:34.119 --> 0:27:39.359 at Manzano and this isn't classified anymore. Paul placed some 0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:44.520 electronic sensors outside on his patio facing Manzano and he 0:27:44.560 --> 0:27:49.320 was picking up strange signals. He was also photographing airplanes 0:27:50.119 --> 0:27:54.280 flying military airplanes taking off from Curlin Air Force Base. 0:27:54.640 --> 0:27:57.480 He was taking all sorts of pictures. Paul was a 0:27:57.560 --> 0:28:02.040 Navy Vorlo two veteran, highly decorated. He felt that there 0:28:02.119 --> 0:28:07.000 was some danger to the base. Benewitz became convinced that 0:28:07.040 --> 0:28:10.800 these lights that he was filming were in fact advanced 0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:17.399 vehicles being piloted by extraterrestrials. In worried that these UFOs 0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:20.840 posed a serious threat to the base. Benewitz got in 0:28:20.880 --> 0:28:24.960 touch with Kurtland security. So they said, well, this is interesting. 0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:27.560 So they called him in and said, so what are 0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:29.359 you saying? And he stood there in front of a 0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:33.119 whole bunch of based security people at Colonel's and the 0:28:33.200 --> 0:28:35.359 guy that ran the base and told him what he 0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:37.479 was seeing. You know, because they knew what it was, 0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:40.320 but they wanted to know what he knew, one because 0:28:40.320 --> 0:28:43.400 they didn't think anybody's watching, and too because if he's 0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:46.240 talking to anybody, they wanted to know who those people were, 0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:50.880 and he possibly foreign nationals or somebody that just wasn't 0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:54.000 supposed to be seeing that stuff. So they listened to 0:28:54.000 --> 0:28:58.760 his report. As his report went on, security staff would 0:28:58.800 --> 0:29:01.280 leave the room as they realized that what Benewitz was 0:29:01.320 --> 0:29:05.000 talking about was not under their purview. So the two 0:29:05.040 --> 0:29:06.800