WEBVTT - Ep. 271: Woof 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.280 This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:17.680 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening. Don't eat podcast. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:23.520 You can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther, 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:33.159 stay longer, get right up top. If you hate dogs, 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:37.400 quit listening. That almost makes me have to quit listening. 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.480 But if I don't like, I'm conflicted. I'm gonna stick 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.880 it out because maybe this's like even though I own one. Yeah, 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.120 it's complicated for me. If you love it, believe me, 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.720 put a positive spin on it. If you love dogs, 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.880 if you love our fairy friends, stick around. That's a bet. 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:57.280 That's a better way to put it. Yeah. I was 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.400 gonna say, if you ask hate dogs and just f 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.520 you don't hate him. But my brother the other day 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.000 was asking me he was he was disappointed to hear. 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.759 We were kind of talking about if everyone in your family, Uh, 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:11.319 I don't want to use the word died, but like 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:13.479 went away. I would say, if everyone in my family 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:15.280 went away, I would go get rid of this dog, 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:19.560 our dog. I'd find someone that wanted a dog. And 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.280 he just felt that was the most cutthroat, cold blooded 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:24.559 thing you'd ever heard. Yeah, I've heard that. I heard 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:27.600 that story through the grapevine, and I've personally retold that 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:30.400 story at least three or four times. Sort of you 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:37.200 tube run yeah, sort of like explaining who Stephen Ronnella is. Yeah, Well, 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.640 what's your problem with dogs? You're just like extra work, 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.640 extra baggage. I don't like going a lot. I'm gone 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:44.320 a lot, and it's just another thing I got to 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.720 think about. Yeah, your kids and your wife, but they're 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:52.440 in this situation. They've um gone to heaven. I don't 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:55.000 want to think of something bad happening to him. We're 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.080 talking about the situation in which I now have to 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.120 take care of the dog by myself and always be 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:00.840 gaming out wanting an do with the thing. I think. 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:02.760 I think that's sad, because you donna need a friend. 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:09.480 If they're gone, will you still be here? I think 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:11.920 you'd have a different relationship with your dog if it 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.320 was a working dog, Steve, you know, if it was 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.280 a dog that was doing stuff for you, it changes 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:21.440 the whole dynamic. I almost just said you have had 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.480 way more dogs and you'll ever have, but that's not true. 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:27.600 But for most people in this room, I've had way 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.880 more dogs than you will ever have. Okay, way more 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:33.639 than you will ever have. You as an adult, have 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:35.679 head way more dogs. As a kid, we had a 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.040 dog every two weeks. That doesn't count. We always yeah, 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.240 but that doesn't count. To get word from a puppy. 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:43.840 Let it grow up and die and go to the 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.320 vet and euthanize it. That's owning the dogs. We had 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:48.880 a dog one time. Here's how this dog came in 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:50.720 our life. My old man was driving down the road 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.480 to go rabbit hunting and saw a beagle walking down 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.000 the road and called the dog into his truck. And 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:59.239 we had that dog for years, and then he gave 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.240 it to our neighbor. Did you turn it into a 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:05.359 rabbit dog? It did rabbit hum, but I don't think 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:06.560 it ever got good. I think that's why he gave 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.640 it to the neighbor. Another time, he goes and gets 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.760 a dog and it would get it'd like to play thatch, 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.800 so would take green tomatoes out of the garden. So 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.680 my dad brings it to like he would bring things 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.200 to like the farm, you know, like the euphemism kind 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:23.560 of way to get rid of a dog. But this 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:28.520 dog he literally brought to his friend's farm eleven miles away. 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:30.800 A couple of days later, we're eating dinner and I 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.160 look out the window and here comes this dog named 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.840 a Kayla. Here comes his dog streaking past the window 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.960 carrying a green tomato in his mouth. That's something bitch 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:45.840 found our house. And then it went like to the farm. 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.120 That was that there was just never whatever he brought 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:50.280 it and didn't come back. Oh, he was ruthless, was dogs. 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:55.240 He had a cat, Maud, that had babies in his 0:03:55.320 --> 0:04:01.000 shoe and then ate the babies out of his shoe. Yeah, 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:06.000 I think about that, Steve. Did he wear the shoes again? 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:07.880 I don't know. I don't know. I was very young. 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.600 But then he had another cat that he tamed named 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.400 fig the cat I told the story because he then 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.200 he took it to a pig farmer to try to castrate, 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:19.200 and the cat fought them all a lot of dogs, Steve, 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.080 who all do we have joining us this morning for 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:28.440 this lovely podcast? Why we have Ronnie Bam not my 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.760 first employer, but my most um impactful employer that I 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:34.359 ever had. Thank you, Steve learned more from Ronnie. I 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.360 still use Ronnie's tools that I stole from him all 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.280 those years ago, especially like my tools that say Ronnie 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:45.039 on him. So you posted a picture of making a 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:47.760 birdhouse with Jimmy with a pair of yellow tin snips, 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:50.359 and then I spread it open on my phone and 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:53.479 I could see Ronnie on it. She had no you 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:55.960 didn't care. I have your drift pin. Then I stole 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:57.839 from you. I have tin snips. I stole from you. 0:04:57.880 --> 0:04:59.680 I think I have one of your tape measures. Yeah, 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.040 stuff great, great quality tools. Years later, I didn't get 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.960 no Christmas bonus. I'm taking these tips. They never got 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:09.280 a Christmas bonus. No, you paid us really well. Yeah, 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:11.359 we tried to take care of you know. It was 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.480 like in terms of when I worked for Ronnie. Remember 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:18.720 one time, Um, I remember one time being in college 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.440 and had spring break and then I played a week 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.080 of hookie. So I took my spring break, played a 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.120 week of hooky, and you sent us out of town 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:31.039 to do a job and we and we worked eighty 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.760 hours a week down there. It was some crazy job 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:35.040 when it was like they had to get something done 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:37.760 during shut down or something like that. I remember coming 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:40.040 back from that and I didn't do ship for months. 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.159 You had money. Yeah, I was just like I'm set. 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:44.839 Do you remember that time I sent you and Danny 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.920 to go pick up a welder. Why didn't even tell 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.279 this story? Now, okay, this is We're gonna tell a 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.600 story real quick. We did a job for a guy 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.839 from West Virginia. I can't remember what Steady was from, 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.080 but he was doing a job in Like and they 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:00.800 were out of West Virginia and mill Rights out of 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:04.280 West Virginia, and they contacted me for a support crew 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.480 because they were behind, right, I think they were doing 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:07.800 a job for am Way. Is that too much that 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:11.120 I'm like they were doing a job for Amway. They 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.960 called into Calvary they were fell behind in schedule, and 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.200 so they brought in T. L. I. Ronnie's company. Then 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:22.080 somehow he got into a situation where uh, he couldn't 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.599 pay Ronnie. So Ronnie has us come into the office. 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:27.240 We always had to be there at six, which is 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.960 hard because I used to drink. But he has coming earlier. 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.880 One day, me and my brother Danny, and he says, 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:38.960 here's what you gotta do today there and he already 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:43.640 four grand. Yeah, and you're gonna take the welder, his welder, 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:45.279 and you're gonna bring it back here to this shop. 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.280 But you had to go in early going before anybody 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.080 showed up, and it'll just look like one of the crew. 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.280 Once you had a hard hat on, nobody you could 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:53.840 walk in and out of that building all day, big 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:58.080 generator welder. Yeah, I still got it. So so we 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.440 drove down there in the truck, hooked up the hooked 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.320 up the welder to the truck, drove the truck home, 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.040 put it round his barn, and Ronnie let us take 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:09.600 eight hours pay. Always always a fair and equal opportunity player. 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.800 And the guy later called you right, I think said 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:14.720 like you said something like I think we're even or whatever, 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:19.960 like you put it together. Yeah, and you're honest. Morning 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:23.320 another dog man, Johnny. If you're so insistent on the intros, 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:25.400 I feel like you'd be like a little more, you know, 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:27.760 like I'm like in your honest and you just sit 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:32.520 there anyway. But that's all it takes is for you 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.160 to say, who's here? My name? I mean, I don't 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.480 and I feel like I'm a regular enough guests that 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.840 people like you know roughly who I am, what I'm 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.520 doing here? Ronnie? Maybe would would you know, be deserved 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:46.600 a little bit more introduction this morning? You want me 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:48.480 to prow some more on there. Ronnie's the host of 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.640 the Hunting Dog Podcast, the first hunting dog podcast ever, 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.240 and he's been on The Mediator Show a couple of times, 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.520 a couple of times, this podcast a bunch of times, 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.880 four times. I've been on your show and pioneered, pioneered 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.200 having a hunting dog podcast podcast I did. I was 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:05.400 even on The Wild Within with you, way back in 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:09.640 the way back long show business career fills here, Phil, 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.400 they can't see you look way younger than his voice, 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.400 way younger. Thanks, that's not true, because they did a 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:17.360 contest where you had to draw Phil based on his 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.280 voice only, and people drew a young man. No one 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.120 drew an old man. Oh I would have went forty 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.360 years old. Yeah, a very very scrawny looking nerd with 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:29.360 a lot of with a very wimpy facial hair situation, 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.040 which is true, that's the true part. Yeah. I had 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:38.120 a shave halfway through the day yesterday. I'm jealous. You 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.240 know what's interesting about that, Like shaving halfway through to day. Uh, 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:43.160 my wife doesn't like my kids to put the same 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:46.160 clothes on that they had on the day before. But 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.280 I always wear my clothes multiple days in a row, 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:52.160 and I was pointing out that let's say the earth 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:56.959 spun slower than it spins, and it took the earth 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:02.920 forty eight hours to rotate. Would everybody go home midday 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:08.160 and change their clothes. No, they would run. They would 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:12.920 run those clothes twice as long without changing them. So 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.480 to wear your clothes twice, there's no way. Would be 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:16.640 like noon and everybody like, well, I got you know, 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:18.760 I gotta run home and change. I've had these clothes 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.160 on for X hours. Do you know what I'm saying? 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.640 I do? But nighttime just a natural reset point. It 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:31.360 just makes sense. I take them all off, I throw 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:32.920 them down to the ground next to my bed. I 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:34.800 wake up and put them all back on again. Sometimes 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:36.480 I wake up, put them all back on again, take 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.200 them off, take a shower, put them back on again, 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.880 and then come to work. Kids are generally just more 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.640 sticky and dirty in general. I think. I mean, I've 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.199 been wearing this this, I even watched this pair of 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:47.960 jeans and I don't know a couple of weeks. Now 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.320 you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, it's got sticky 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.680 bun residue all over. If your kids wore those jeans, 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.560 you're right, Oh yeah, exactly. Well, there'd be um, I 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:58.800 hate to say it, but there'd be some kind of 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:01.959 poop on them. Hold of your kids until a certain age. 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:04.319 I've got a two year old, so that, yeah, that's true. 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:06.360 But then I've got an eight year old. The poop 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:07.920 problem with the eight year old is pretty much kind 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:09.679 they were they wrap it up after a while. But 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:11.720 you know what's funny is um anotherhing. I was telling 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:13.360 my kids, like, you know, they're in that phase like 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.120 poop stuff is funny, like people pooping their fans. It's funny. 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.480 It's embarrassing. But yeah, I was like, you people that 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:24.400 are people most inclined to have encounters with poop, Like 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:26.560 I think you guys would be very accepting of it. 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:28.760 It's like a real part of your Yeah, like a 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:30.240 couple of years ago, it is a daily part of 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:32.040 your life to have it on you. But now you 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:35.280 act like it's so disgusting and funny. You're like, you're 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:39.400 it's a little too close for you to be dogging on. 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:42.720 It's true, Like, wait, go ten years without having an accident, 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:47.560 then come tell me how funny it is. Um Clay 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:53.720 nucom newcomb Clay, how's your new show going? Man, it's 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.439 going good. I know you don't ride an elevators ever, 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.600 but can you give me an elevator pitch for your show? Yeah, 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:04.640 it's called Burgerase Podcast and it's a documentary style narrative 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:10.920 storytelling podcast where we cover all types of stuff. So 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:15.440 it's it's hunting, but it's also rural culture, a lot 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.240 of a lot of fun stuff. Man, what was the 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:22.040 first episode? Tell everybody myth of the southern mountain lion 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:26.480 so on that it's it's a it's an efficient listen 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.560 as we say, it's it's always gonna be under an hour, 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:36.840 and we interviewed uh to eyewitness sighting people that have 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.880 seen mountain lions in the South. We interviewed a large 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.280 carnivore biologist that so we got the real data of 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:47.600 whether they're here or not. We interviewed a psychologist about 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:52.800 why people see things when they really don't. And as fun, 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:59.000 it's it's a lot of fun. Man Um Hayden, Sam, 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:03.040 how do these permatially name Salmon? I was right, Yeah, okay, 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:05.800 you've never been on the show before. I have not, Man, 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.400 you work here, though, I do tell people what you do. 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:16.680 He fiddles with Phil's buttons. Yeah, he fiddles Phil's knobs 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:22.400 up literally, not figuratively. See where it goes. Yeah, I 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.719 had it sound and do audio engineering stuff. I get 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.360 to do all sorts of auxiliary auxiliary stuff. And you 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.360 you tickle the ivories a little bit yourself. Oh sure do? Yeah, 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:37.760 you bet. What's the fun fact about your last name? 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:44.920 Oh it means it means fisherman in Syrian. Yeah, stomach 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:50.120 is fish is fish in Arabic. Yeah, but you're not Syrian. 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.600 I am serious. Talk got the Syrian last name? You're serious? 0:12:55.760 --> 0:13:00.240 You're Serriu. Yeah, yeah, you didn't just pick that because 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:07.680 he'd liked to fish. Yeah, the su walk me through? 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.439 Can you quickly walk me through your lineage? How how 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:15.240 it worked while y'all are in the America? Oh? Hell um, 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:20.800 I just know that my great grandfather was at least 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:22.839 half Syrian. I don't know if he was full of 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.959 Syrians or not, but it comes from my dad's side 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:31.960 and uh yeah Syrian name said say it again? Sam? 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:34.800 I mean, I'm sure I've American eyed the hell out 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.040 of it at this point. I don't know if there's 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:43.040 like some sort of yeah, I have an article, Um, 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.240 that was my dad's stuff. It's about his uncle being 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.000 shot and killed by a cop. I remember the cops 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:51.360 name was Philip to me, but um, my dad's uncle, 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.720 who my dad knew, Um, his name was spelled completely 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.319 differently than mine. Yeah, my dad said, oh yeah, it 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:00.679 was a split. Some of them were I on the end, 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:02.319 and then some of them went A on the end 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.800 and you just kind of chills, which start chills? Which 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:09.880 version you wanted back in those days? You know? Kran 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:12.800 is here? Of course have you heard from the KRN 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.880 aside from asking Hayden about his last name? Now you 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.600 guys are tearing it up. Makes you glad if you're 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.200 doing these intros and then bro, I bet what watch what? 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.920 Watch the watch how Zippy Brodio will say something, Now 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:31.120 what do you want me to say? There you go? Um, okay, 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.760 now we all if you listen to our recent episode 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:39.680 with Dr David Meltzer, dogs domesticated twelve years ago, our 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:45.400 first domesticated animal by a long shot. It's with genetics 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.560 has become um. You know, people spend a lot of 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:50.720 time thinking about it because it's it's we're able to 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.320 answer long standing questions we've had about how this came 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.960 to be. But we got around the dogs way before 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.800 we got around a cattle. Sheet horses, pigs been our 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:08.560 bodies for a long long time. What's funny here is 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:12.480 how many people like didn't only recently got a dog? 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:15.320 You were only recently got a dog? Or did you 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:17.480 have a bunch before? Oh yeah, this is I mean, 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:22.240 you've always had a dog? Mingus is my first as 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:28.000 an adult dog? Phil, I've got a dog. I never 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:29.960 had a dog as a kid, but my wife didn't. 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.320 She tucked me into getting one, uh after we got married, 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.720 So I've had her for four years now ish. Yeah. 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.360 Point being real experts here. Oh yeah, top top grade. 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:43.440 Teren's got a whopper of a dog. Oh yeah, Charns 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.080 gotta you've never had a dog before? No. I grew 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:50.040 up in the city and my parents never allowed Uh yeah. 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.240 I would go bring him into pet stores, asked to 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.560 hold onto a dog, and then start crying and trying 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.280 to manipulate them, but they never fell for it. So 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.480 this is your first dog? First first actual do get 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:07.040 four pound dog? Uh? Couple a couple of corrections real quick, 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.480 or one major correction, and I feel like I'm right. 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:11.440 This guy is the guy that rowed in his pissed, 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.080 and he deserves to be pissed. We had a thing 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.200 about that, so card to explain. Now, who can explain this? 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:20.240 Let me? I explain it once. I got sick of 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:24.840 explaining it even then. Normally, when you buy a fishing license, 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:29.000 um normally to buy a fishing license, the license fee 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:31.440 goes to those states fishing game agency. So you go 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.240 down and buy a fishing license that winds up being 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.080 dedicated funding for fishing wildlife management. It is. It's not 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:39.800 like when you pay your taxes and they just do what. 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.120 You know, your taxes going to a general fund and 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.520 the state does whatever the whatever it does with it. Right, 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.760 It's not like you can pick I'd like my taxes 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.920 to go to UH infrastructure reform. You know, it just 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:52.680 goes into a general fund and they do their deal. 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.360 Fishing licenses are different because their agency specifics. So you 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.640 you buy a license, it funds the agency, and then 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.720 there's mechanisms in place that make it the states that 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:07.080 the de incentivized states from robbing that general fund, I'm sorry, 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.639 from robbing that specific fish and game fund. We had 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:14.640 a guy right in and saying that the Massachusetts never 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:19.520 used to require saltwater license. They require saltwater license now. 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:24.320 And he was telling us how that saltwater license fee 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.200 goes to the general fund where it can be diverted 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:31.760 into all kinds of bs and doesn't stay specific specific. 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:36.960 In Gloucester, everybody told me, I said that wrong. Another 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.639 guy rolling and said that guy is quote completely incorrect. 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:47.000 Explain crin. So guy number one from Gloucester, Gloucester called 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:51.760 Gloucester one, and then there's Gloucester two. Gloucester two says 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:57.600 that in fact, all the money collected from saltwater licenses 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:02.119 go into a dedicated fund and that a third of 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:07.320 the money collected must go to improving public access. He 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.440 goes on to say it would have taken you less 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.439 than one minute to look up and fact check this 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:18.040 issue before broadcasting false information on your podcast Salty And 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.480 then he says he's a frequent listener, but he's right, 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.199 He's right. I don't know why, and when I was 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.720 reading it, in the back of my head was like, 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.280 we should probably look into this. My grand points out 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.720 that she's checked it and had someone else check it 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.840 and timed those people, and it took those people longer 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.479 than a minute to check it, but not too much long. 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.480 So the guy's right. So if he had said it 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:43.919 would taken you not much longer than a minute, he 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:48.080 had been correct. Uh. The one thing, though, I called 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:52.280 the Massachusetts Division of Marine Fisheries and I'm waiting for 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.280 a call back because I couldn't find where they stated 0:18:55.320 --> 0:19:00.840 that one third of the money must go to fishing access. Yeah, 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.880 so I don't want to put that bit of unchecked 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.080 information across to all of our podcast listeners just yet. 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:12.280 When the guy when Gloucester one called his state tax Achusetts, 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:17.160 which is fine, I should have been like I detected 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:22.240 by US, I detect a blind spot. Uh. A friend 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:24.119 of mine, this is this is, this is something for 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:26.960 your Ronnie here his specialties dogs, but he has he 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.520 has a minor, his major's dogs, but as a minor 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.480 getting in trouble to T s A. Um A guy, 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.600 a guy wrote in a friend of mine. I want 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:41.120 to say his name. He uh he he recently got 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.080 caught by T. S A. He didn't mean to be 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.080 doing this, but he had an unloaded thirty eight pistol 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:51.280 in his carry on. I feel his pain. Thousand bucks 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.119 got his gun back. Ronnie I lost mine, and tell 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.760 everybody what happened to you. This is a warning tale. Well, 0:19:57.760 --> 0:19:59.800 I had some I'll try to do it, not like 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:01.600 my mom. I'll try to do a short version. But 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:06.359 I had invertly taken the twenty two revolver and stuck 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.480 it into my dry bag, and I was going out 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:12.280 to Utah real quickly that inadvertently, well, it was like 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:13.960 I had to move it somewhere. There was there was 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:15.840 somebody coming to my kennel. I just didn't want to 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.280 pistol lay in there. So I just kind of like 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:20.919 slam dunked it up into a shelf. Well, I actually 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:22.879 threw it into my dry bag because you thought they'd 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.000 see the pistol and be alarmed. Yeah, I mean they're 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:26.560 coming over to look at dogs, you know, and like, 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:28.119 why is this guy got a pistol lay not on 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.119 the counter. So anyway, I looked at the weather report 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.840 before my flight. I saw that was gonna be raining, 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.840 and judging in the rain sucks. So I grabbed all 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.399 my gear judging dogs. Yeah, and I grab all my 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:41.680 ring gear and I stick it in that bag without 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:45.240 checking that bag. So now that bag, that's how it 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.119 happened that bag has got a loaded twenty two pistol 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:50.680 with a six inch barrel on it, and it's a 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:53.639 large it almost looks like a cult pythe and almost 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:57.640 it's huge gun even though it's a twenty two. And 0:20:57.680 --> 0:20:59.480 I had my first time I got that pre check 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:00.919 where you don't have to take your shoes off, and 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.919 I was feeling all kind of smarty. I was like, 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.119 looking at me, I got my shoes on, and and 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.199 I'm kind of I'm leaning on that conveyor, you know, 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:10.920 and I'm kind of judging the conveyor, like, oh, that's 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:13.800 pretty good. Rollers on this conveyored lines kind of building 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:15.439 up behind me. And then the guy looking up at 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:17.320 the screen, he turns the screen so I can see it. 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:21.480 He goes, is this your bag? I don't go up there, 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:26.240 and I can see everything but the serial number, and 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:31.639 I I'm like, I even told the guy said I 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:35.240 said yes, and it's loaded, because I'm like, I better 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:39.240 just get it clear. And he said, well, we'll stay 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.080 right there, and they diverted the rest of the line. 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.200 You know, they had the people who didn't have to 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.000 take your shoes off had to go on the other line. 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:47.520 They weren't they weren't happy with me, a little salty, 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:50.360 and I was probably at that little conveyor stand there 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:52.719 where you get your stuff back for ten minutes. All 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.520 three different people came up and questioned me did they 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:58.760 coffee and stuff? Right there? Right once? Once? Like the 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:02.040 third person said, of you have you? Did you do this? 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:03.960 Did you blah blah. They just had this pet bunch 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:06.240 a bunch of answers, like if you you know, it's 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:08.880 like getting those COVID questions nowadays. There's like three questions 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:10.960 they ask you. And she said, okay, well we're gonna 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:13.320 take I don't know what do you mean? What kind 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:16.280 of questions? Have you had suicidal thoughts? Oh did you 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:19.359 have are you suffering from any family? Blah blah? Do 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.520 you have anything against the airline? They all have the 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:25.360 same three questions. It was a weird I can't I need, 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:27.119 I need interject something you make me think of. I 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:30.880 can't let it go on said we uh, maybe took 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:34.040 our kids down in the emergency room too often. And 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.520 one day they like, what are the strengths and weaknesses 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:40.320 of your marriage? I was like, oh my god, really 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:42.880 is this where this is at right now? Oh? Yeah, 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:45.280 that I that's the one thing that I hate. We've 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:46.760 had to take our kids to the emergency room a 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:49.920 couple of times and they they give you like a 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.399 little scan. They look at both of the parents. They 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:57.199 asked the kids very straightforward questions. And you want, you want, 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.159 you want to get mad. You're just playing into their hands. 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:02.080 You want to be like, dude, mind your own business. 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:04.600 But they're like, but if I say that, then that 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:06.920 I probably get handcuffed or something. It's like a three 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:09.320 year old kid and they're asking me, so, how exactly 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:12.560 did it? So what happened? Explained to me what happened. 0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:16.760 They separated, They separated us to tell the story. Yeah, awful, 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:21.000 it's the worst feeling. They didn't separate me. They just 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:23.480 one one after the other came up and asked me 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:25.480 the same three questions. And then the late There was 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:29.760 a lady police officer that worked at the Grand Rapids Airport. 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:32.240 They have their own little office. Remember that office you 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:34.879 talked about on the subway, Steve, that you didn't know 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:36.600 when I got caught with a knife, like, but you 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:38.760 never know, there's an office there. It was just like 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:41.480 that the airport. It was like the secret door and 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:43.879 there's this police department that I never knew existed inside 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:46.439 the airport. Always reminded me of that subway thing of you. 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:48.960 So I go into you know, she puts handcuffs on me, 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:51.959 and I gotta walk past everybody and we go out 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:54.359 to this little little place for the police department. Is 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:58.119 they coff you behind her in front of your back behind? Yeah, 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:01.000 I started getting like weird itches. You couldn't No, I 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:04.480 was just petrified. I could barely walk. I could barely walk. 0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:07.800 And they bring me into this back room and I'm 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:12.640 sitting down. She uncuffs my cuffs, then handcuffs my left 0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:16.080 arm to the wall, like to a short handcuff to 0:24:16.119 --> 0:24:18.320 the wall, and I'm sitting in a chair just like this, 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:21.399 and and then she'd got a piece of paper and 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:22.760 I got to write a statement, and I'm like, well 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:27.199 I'm left handed. So instead of like I always felt like, 0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:30.720 well you didn't think this through, because all they went 0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:34.159 and got like three other officers cuffs and made like 0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:36.680 a chain of cuffs instead of switching hands, instead of 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:39.960 switching hands, instead of like okay, uncuff him, put his 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:42.119 right arm on the table and let him right left. No, 0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:43.840 they went got like three other give me your cuffs, 0:24:43.840 --> 0:24:46.600 give me like a daisy chain of handcuffs and daisy chain. 0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:49.000 So now I'm writing down what happened. She's got my wallet. 0:24:49.280 --> 0:24:50.640 She asked me what I was doing, and I told 0:24:50.640 --> 0:24:52.200 her I was going to do a dog I was 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:55.680 judging some dogs out in Utah. And then she said 0:24:55.720 --> 0:24:57.800 what kind of dogs? And I told her bird dogs 0:24:58.040 --> 0:24:59.600 and her eyes lit up, and I was like, oh, 0:24:59.680 --> 0:25:01.959 I'm I might I might have it here, you know. 0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:04.120 But I thought for sure, like my life was over 0:25:04.119 --> 0:25:06.760 because if I had I assumed it was a felony, 0:25:07.000 --> 0:25:10.240 just because why wouldn't it be right? And turned out 0:25:10.240 --> 0:25:11.800 to be. I had a loot. I lost my gun. 0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:15.320 It was a misdemeanor. But I did end up in jail. 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:18.360 They had to give me over to Kent County Police. 0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:19.960 They took me to jail. I had to sit into 0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:23.800 drunk drunk tank for three hours until the sergeant came 0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:26.480 back to post. But like the funniest part of the 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:29.840 story would be my daughter dropped me off the airport 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:35.600 because Kelsey worked right right at forty Patterson and she 0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:39.560 dropped me off. And so two o'clock in the afternoon, 0:25:40.160 --> 0:25:42.520 I'm calling her up and she goes, yeah, Dad, what's up? 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:44.720 And I said, I need you to come get me. 0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:47.679 She goes, well, you're either in Utah or you had 0:25:47.680 --> 0:25:50.080 a connector in Atlanta. Well, what's what's going on? I go, no, 0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:52.240 I'm at the Kent County jail. I need you to 0:25:52.280 --> 0:25:55.720 kill me get me. And she's just like she was like, 0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:58.800 I'm like, hello, is this Mike says Mike hut and 0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:03.760 she's I'm like Kelsey. She goes I said, She goes, 0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:05.960 did you call my I said, don't call mom, don't 0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:08.440 just come to the Kent County jail. I gotta get 0:26:08.440 --> 0:26:11.680 back to the airport and get my stuff. So that 0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:13.480 was That was a bad morning. But then he had 0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:15.840 a court date. I had a court date and I 0:26:15.920 --> 0:26:17.760 never actually went in front of the judge. My lawyer 0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:20.240 went in front of the whatever, the person that works 0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:23.680 with the judge, and uh, they did all their things. 0:26:23.680 --> 0:26:25.320 I sat out in the hallway both times I went 0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:27.480 to court. I don't know what they were talking about. 0:26:27.640 --> 0:26:29.040 So I feel I feel like I remember part of 0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:30.880 the story you're not mentioned where you then said your 0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:34.760 lawyer like, what about the gun? He's like, forget about Well, yeah, 0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:37.600 once I realized I was getting them this. Once I 0:26:37.680 --> 0:26:41.480 realized there was a misdemeanor, I said, well, chance I 0:26:41.520 --> 0:26:46.040 get that gun back. That's like asking a doc if 0:26:46.040 --> 0:26:48.199 you don't have to take your heart medicine, do I 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:51.200 have to keep taking this? Uh? And you didn't pay 0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:54.480 much money? Not? You know, not really you know that 0:26:54.480 --> 0:26:56.320 story about when we had a jet boil canist during it? 0:26:56.800 --> 0:27:03.240 What was our initial fine? The lawyers four? And so 0:27:03.320 --> 0:27:08.520 this guy he paid half of a week for a 0:27:08.560 --> 0:27:11.520 jet ball canister. Paid he paid half for a pistol 0:27:11.520 --> 0:27:13.600 what you paid for a jet bawl canister. But he 0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:15.640 had an unloaded one. I don't know if that matters though, 0:27:15.920 --> 0:27:17.920 I don't know. I don't know about severity. But my 0:27:18.000 --> 0:27:20.199 oh yeah, here's the other part that was funny. So 0:27:20.240 --> 0:27:22.160 I'm sitting in that room, locked up against the wall, 0:27:22.960 --> 0:27:25.760 and as I walked into that room, there's this little 0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:28.840 i'd call it almost like a closet, and there's a 0:27:28.880 --> 0:27:31.720 shooting sand trap, like so you can just charge the 0:27:31.760 --> 0:27:36.840 firearms and they're all ready for this stuff apparently. And 0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:41.040 I see my pistol like in this uh like holder right, 0:27:41.520 --> 0:27:43.160 and it's pointing in to the sand and I walked 0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:45.359 by and I'm sitting unlocked up and I see a 0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:48.199 cop walk in there. Now this was like, you know 0:27:48.200 --> 0:27:50.240 what a top break pistol is. The back peep site 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:53.199 comes up, it breaks open like a shotgun, right, and 0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:55.719 this cop is in there and he pokes his head 0:27:55.760 --> 0:27:59.800 around the corner. He goes, yeah, he goes, how do 0:27:59.840 --> 0:28:06.000 you open it? Things? I'm like, push up on the 0:28:06.040 --> 0:28:08.160 back of for your site. He goes back in there, 0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:11.920 but thirty second goes thanks because he didn't want to 0:28:11.960 --> 0:28:14.760 go to his sergeant and go like, I gotta go 0:28:14.800 --> 0:28:16.200 to I don't know how to get the bullets out 0:28:16.200 --> 0:28:18.719 of it though, I don't know where the lever is. 0:28:19.240 --> 0:28:22.160 I got held up by the police and the anchorage 0:28:22.200 --> 0:28:25.840 report for shotgun shells. Oh, they took you away from 0:28:25.840 --> 0:28:28.359 the line, and you know that happened to me there too. 0:28:28.480 --> 0:28:30.239 You know, you gave me something. I forgot to take 0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:33.040 him out of my bag. But they were they knew, 0:28:33.600 --> 0:28:35.719 yeah it happened. They were They were kind of like, 0:28:35.760 --> 0:28:38.480 I really like you dumbass, Now we gotta go through 0:28:38.480 --> 0:28:40.800 all these things. Was like, we gotta do through all 0:28:40.880 --> 0:28:43.600 this And obviously what you're telling us is like you 0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:45.320 went tarming and hunting, which is what I did and 0:28:45.440 --> 0:28:48.600 had like a bird shot. And then their their attitude 0:28:48.640 --> 0:28:51.520 was more that you've just cost us like a bunch 0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:53.360 of filling papers out we were going to have a 0:28:53.400 --> 0:28:55.200 cigarette break and now we have to take care of 0:28:55.240 --> 0:28:57.200 your dumbass. Yeah, it was. It was. No, there was 0:28:57.240 --> 0:29:01.760 no serious questioning, you know, o question of legality from 0:29:01.760 --> 0:29:07.520 a listener. It's about our quid pro quid pro after Ukraine, 0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:10.960 the Ukraine scandal. It's hard to say quid pro quo 0:29:12.080 --> 0:29:18.080 because it got forever tied to the Ukraine scandal. Anyways, 0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:24.120 we're not scandal, the scandal that wasn't the scandal anyways. Uh, 0:29:24.160 --> 0:29:28.240 we're talking about sturgeon scandal, the sturgeon scandal that occurred 0:29:28.240 --> 0:29:33.000 in where are you any Wisconsin. Yes, biologists are like 0:29:33.080 --> 0:29:36.280 taking you know, sturgeon row. Caviar is very valuable and 0:29:36.600 --> 0:29:40.680 there's biologists that extract the row and there's various just 0:29:40.680 --> 0:29:45.280 just crash course quickn't mind. Yeah, there was. They have 0:29:45.400 --> 0:29:48.040 check stations when when these sturgeon come in. They had 0:29:48.160 --> 0:29:52.080 every sturgeon that spear needs to be checked, and there 0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:57.240 was there were some coolers that were at that check 0:29:57.320 --> 0:30:00.800 station that were specifically four eggs it were then going 0:30:00.840 --> 0:30:05.480 to processors, and then it looks as if maybe people 0:30:05.600 --> 0:30:08.240 that worked for the game and fish were then getting 0:30:10.480 --> 0:30:14.640 cured finished jars of caviare in return, and so you 0:30:14.760 --> 0:30:19.360 had this trade, you know, of goods for a finished product, 0:30:19.440 --> 0:30:22.160 which became illegal. At the same time, there was also 0:30:22.800 --> 0:30:27.160 some folks that we did some work with, um Vic 0:30:27.280 --> 0:30:35.960 and uh Mary Lou that were similarly basically cleaning up 0:30:35.960 --> 0:30:39.760 eggs for people, curing them and then giving them back 0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:43.600 to them, but also holding onto a small portion of 0:30:43.600 --> 0:30:47.840 it for themselves. So again sort of getting paid by 0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:50.600 you know, holding onto it, which you can't do right. 0:30:50.720 --> 0:30:53.160 So so I don't think we've seen what's gonna come 0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:56.520 of it yet. I haven't heard any updates about that story. 0:30:56.560 --> 0:31:00.840 But anyways, folks gotten in trouble for bartering, trading, selling 0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:03.200 wild games. Am I correct and saying though that this 0:31:03.280 --> 0:31:05.440 is just something that went on there. It wasn't like 0:31:05.480 --> 0:31:07.360 they were trying to hide it. It was just something 0:31:07.400 --> 0:31:10.400 like that's kind of part of the culture there. Certainly 0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:14.160 with Vick and Mary Lou, it was very very much 0:31:14.240 --> 0:31:15.959 like that. I think they had been warned in the 0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:18.480 past and it was just sort of like, oh no, 0:31:18.600 --> 0:31:21.120 we're just helping out the community, you know, And this 0:31:21.240 --> 0:31:24.640 wasn't a black market. Yeah. I remember when I first 0:31:24.680 --> 0:31:27.520 heard about it. I don't know why I've talked about this. 0:31:27.600 --> 0:31:29.120 I first heard about it was like, oh, yeah, he 0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:33.000 was selling eggs to the Russians, which gets your hackles up, 0:31:33.000 --> 0:31:35.360 you know. Yeah, so you started rolling the Russians into 0:31:35.400 --> 0:31:39.360 something Russian mafia. Yeah, like, oh man, you know you're 0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:41.440 picturing like guns and whatnot, but I want to be 0:31:41.440 --> 0:31:45.480 And it was the neighbors by the Russians. I meant 0:31:46.400 --> 0:31:50.160 his neighbors. I don't know. Guy rolled in about this though, 0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:54.240 considering that you can't barter, trade sell wild game with 0:31:54.520 --> 0:31:57.720 some exceptions which will not get into uh, he lays 0:31:57.720 --> 0:32:01.360 out this little conundrum he's in. They play. His town 0:32:02.440 --> 0:32:09.560 has a Tiddly Winks tournament um and a meat raffle. Now, 0:32:09.560 --> 0:32:11.840 he says, you'll know what I'm talking about, but I 0:32:11.880 --> 0:32:15.360 don't know what either of those things are. They have 0:32:15.360 --> 0:32:18.480 a Tiddley Winks tournament and a meat raffle in his town. 0:32:18.760 --> 0:32:21.720 I can speak to meat raffle, but not Tiddley Winks tournament. 0:32:22.360 --> 0:32:25.040 You can run didn't you ever play Tiddley Winks when 0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:27.240 you were kidding? I use it like, um, you know, 0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:29.720 sitting around like like if I was if I caught 0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:32.920 Phil not working, he would be like, oh yeah, I'd 0:32:32.960 --> 0:32:34.960 be like, you spend the who day whistling Dixie down there? 0:32:35.040 --> 0:32:36.440 You might say you can spend the whole day down 0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:38.880 there playing tilly winks. Tiddley Winks is an actual like 0:32:38.960 --> 0:32:42.600 game with these little plastic dick um saucers and you 0:32:42.720 --> 0:32:45.320 push down on, you flip the you flip them up. 0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:49.520 You make a move around the board tid winks. Yeah, 0:32:49.640 --> 0:32:52.280 somebody google that, don't we have a Jamie here kind 0:32:52.320 --> 0:32:55.960 of blank expression. No, I accepted it the game. I 0:32:55.960 --> 0:32:57.520 know it's a game. I don't know what it is. 0:32:57.520 --> 0:32:59.320 And I don't know how a town gets together to 0:32:59.320 --> 0:33:03.800 have a Tiddley Wink turnaments, But COVID just winds up 0:33:03.800 --> 0:33:09.200 being a COVID story. COVID causes a cancelation of the 0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:13.960 town wide Tiddley Winks tournament meat Raffle put him and 0:33:14.080 --> 0:33:16.880 some close friends decided to get together anyway and have 0:33:16.960 --> 0:33:20.600 a private Tiddley Winks tournament and a private meat Raffle 0:33:22.840 --> 0:33:26.320 Tiddley Winks sounds worse every time you say it. So 0:33:26.480 --> 0:33:30.880 normally one of these meat raffles. So normally everybody, apparently 0:33:31.320 --> 0:33:34.560 everyone from the town. I'm gonna get one of these going. 0:33:35.080 --> 0:33:38.280 Everyone from the town goes to the butcher's shop. They 0:33:38.280 --> 0:33:42.600 all buy meat. You bring the meat. It's a great idea. 0:33:42.680 --> 0:33:44.480 You bring the meat back and put it on the table, 0:33:44.480 --> 0:33:47.640 and then you sell raffle tickets, draw raffle tickets. Brodie's 0:33:47.720 --> 0:33:49.960 number comes up, like, I say, oh, I pulled the 0:33:50.000 --> 0:33:52.080 hat out number one. Bro He's like, my god, I'm 0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:55.000 number one. So then Brody goes up and he'll be like, damn, 0:33:55.040 --> 0:33:58.760 I'm taking the pork wine. That's a meat raffle. Okay. 0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:02.280 Since they had to do the small scale version and 0:34:02.320 --> 0:34:05.560 all of his buddies hunting fish, they all brought game, 0:34:07.760 --> 0:34:12.719 wild game, and then had a sturgeon and then had 0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:15.920 a thing. So he brought down two pounds of smoked 0:34:15.920 --> 0:34:19.200 sturgeon and walked out with two pounds of vendison loin. 0:34:20.520 --> 0:34:26.719 Should he anticipate being arrested, that's a great question. I 0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:28.760 hope we don't. I hope our emails don't get subpoena 0:34:28.880 --> 0:34:33.120 so they can find out who he is tiley winks. 0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:37.520 I'm reading a Wikipedia page on it right now. You 0:34:37.560 --> 0:34:43.200 wouldn't believe it. The small disks are called winks. Uh. 0:34:43.360 --> 0:34:46.960 There's a pot which is the target, and a collection 0:34:47.000 --> 0:34:54.000 of squidgers which are also disks. To shoot a wink 0:34:54.040 --> 0:34:57.160 into flight by flicking the squidder across the top of 0:34:57.200 --> 0:35:00.239 a wink and then over its edge. It's it's like 0:35:00.239 --> 0:35:03.000 something had of Harry Potter. Just gonna see that sounds 0:35:03.360 --> 0:35:08.560 sid Harry. This game has been was invented in eighteen eight. 0:35:09.719 --> 0:35:12.560 They got it nailed. Yeah, and and okay, I'm just 0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:14.920 gonna finish with this tidty winks. And sometimes consider a 0:35:14.960 --> 0:35:20.120 simple minded, minded, frivolous children's game a strategic adult game 0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:23.440 wait for it. However, the modern competitive adult game of 0:35:23.440 --> 0:35:26.239 tiddley Winks made a strong comeback at the University of 0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:30.680 Cambridge in nine. Modern game uses far more complex rules 0:35:30.680 --> 0:35:35.080 and a consistent set of high grade equipment. So back 0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:36.840 in the day, if you had a child that was 0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:38.719 an academic, you just put him in the yard with 0:35:38.719 --> 0:35:41.120 a cup and some tiddley winks. He would just kill 0:35:41.200 --> 0:35:43.560 some hours and you could get some laundry done. And 0:35:43.640 --> 0:35:45.280 as long as he learns how to fold his raffle 0:35:45.320 --> 0:35:47.640 tickets right, he will have plenty of meat from the 0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:50.759 meat raffle. He'll be fine. Got rolling in with a 0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:53.000 poem for Kevin Murphy. Who someone get ready to read 0:35:53.000 --> 0:35:54.520 the poem. I'll tee it up. And someone else has 0:35:54.560 --> 0:35:58.680 read the poem. You gotta read the poem. I read 0:35:58.680 --> 0:36:01.120 it to my kids this morning. Okay. A listener had 0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:04.320 heard our episode with Kevin Murphy about trying to trail 0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:08.040 uh cotton tail rabbits out in the desert with dogs 0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:14.680 from Kentucky. Um and how and we heard this from 0:36:14.800 --> 0:36:17.760 Jake grib too, kind of our one of our resident 0:36:17.800 --> 0:36:22.400 dog experts that the dog lives at a certain climate, 0:36:22.520 --> 0:36:28.360 certain humidity, certain foliage. It seems to become like accustomed 0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:30.560 to those things, and then it tracks and those things 0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:31.799 and when you move them, like you can take a 0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:33.880 dog from a wet place and move them to a desert, 0:36:34.000 --> 0:36:36.239 just throws him out of way, takes him while he's 0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:39.080 gotta kind of relearn all of his tricks, whateverything smells 0:36:39.160 --> 0:36:41.920 like and how everything goes. So this guy came up 0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:46.160 with he calls it an a fourism anecdote colloquialism, or 0:36:46.160 --> 0:36:49.920 whatever you choose to call it. Hit a grin. This 0:36:49.960 --> 0:36:54.280 one's for you. Kevin Murphy. If on the morning breeze 0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:57.919 you can smell your dog's daily habit, it's a damn 0:36:58.000 --> 0:37:07.080 good day to go hunt. Rabbit explained that through Ronnie, 0:37:08.200 --> 0:37:12.520 if you can smell, No one likes that poem. I 0:37:12.560 --> 0:37:14.200 can't wait till we get that dial in here to 0:37:14.320 --> 0:37:16.560 tell people, to tell what people think is good or not. 0:37:16.640 --> 0:37:20.280 I thought i'd laugh track. No, no, no, we're getting 0:37:20.280 --> 0:37:23.120 in We're getting a machine where everybody in here has 0:37:23.120 --> 0:37:25.239 a dial they turned up and down to tell how 0:37:25.280 --> 0:37:27.080 interested they aren't. Lights and light in the center of 0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:29.680 the table so people know when they're being born. Cream 0:37:29.680 --> 0:37:33.120 would have I would have cranked her. But um. Another 0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:36.120 piece of feedback that came out of our Rabbit conversation 0:37:36.120 --> 0:37:38.680 with Kevin Murphy is the guy wrote in about this 0:37:38.760 --> 0:37:42.000 interesting practice that takes place in the Lake Okachobe region 0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:45.759 and the sugar cane fields. And we're right now kind 0:37:45.760 --> 0:37:49.239 of half watching some of these videos and it's fascinating 0:37:49.520 --> 0:37:53.320 saying that when they when they burn off the fields 0:37:53.760 --> 0:37:55.799 and then also kind of like they're harvesting, but also 0:37:55.840 --> 0:37:59.040 burning off the cane fields. It's common practice for local 0:37:59.120 --> 0:38:04.080 kids to come out with a stick in a in 0:38:04.120 --> 0:38:07.759 a sack or a pillow case and to fill those 0:38:07.760 --> 0:38:10.680 pillow cases up with rabbits that they just chase after 0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:14.399 and whap with a stick, just hit them like they're 0:38:14.520 --> 0:38:16.319 like you'd kill a fish. And you watch this thing, 0:38:16.360 --> 0:38:19.759 it's like just just it's like a tap almost, and 0:38:19.920 --> 0:38:24.520 you kids run around handfuls of rabbits. I have no 0:38:24.560 --> 0:38:26.279 idea on the legality of it, like if they have 0:38:26.320 --> 0:38:28.120 a seasoned method to take I don't know, but it's 0:38:28.320 --> 0:38:30.319 but yeah, you can go online and find these these 0:38:30.400 --> 0:38:32.680 kids around these rabbits up. It's really interesting. I like 0:38:32.800 --> 0:38:37.319 the local legend stuff. What's the local legend? Well, look, 0:38:37.440 --> 0:38:40.960 legend is the best football players developed their skills as 0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:46.480 small children chasing rabbits. Because there's so many pro football players, 0:38:46.480 --> 0:38:48.880 collegiate football players that are good that come out of 0:38:48.880 --> 0:38:52.520 this small region of Florida where they grow sugarcane and 0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:55.320 have this practice and you watch them run down the rabbits. 0:38:55.560 --> 0:39:00.080 It's it's athletic. Yeah, I can't. I mean, you know, 0:39:00.280 --> 0:39:03.239 I've seen plenty of rabbits running around and uh, I 0:39:03.320 --> 0:39:05.680 haven't really chased them, but I can imagine I could 0:39:05.760 --> 0:39:07.799 that I would not be able to run one down. 0:39:08.680 --> 0:39:15.320 I'm looking at an NFL film, official NFL films. Uh 0:39:15.520 --> 0:39:19.720 looks like Travis Benjamin and Generes Jenkins. So Giants player 0:39:19.960 --> 0:39:25.600 and Chargers player. It looks like they grew up doing 0:39:25.640 --> 0:39:31.040 this and uh hunting sugarcane exactly, and then they're in 0:39:31.040 --> 0:39:34.800 the NFL. So there you have it. If it was 0:39:34.840 --> 0:39:36.440 just one person, that could be a fluke. But it's 0:39:36.440 --> 0:39:42.320 too Clay, tell tell everybody about this. This uh, this 0:39:42.320 --> 0:39:47.200 this this raccoon dog. So a couple of weeks ago, 0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:49.120 or at least it came out a couple of weeks 0:39:49.120 --> 0:39:52.799 ago on social media, there was a coon dog in Tennessee. 0:39:53.640 --> 0:39:56.680 They got stuck fifty feet up in a tree and 0:39:56.800 --> 0:40:02.560 firefighters had to come rescue it. Do by that, Oh yeah, 0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:05.800 oh yeah it Uh you can watch the video, you 0:40:05.840 --> 0:40:09.680 can search for it. But Steve, that's pretty common. Um, 0:40:09.760 --> 0:40:13.520 there are in in all the hound world, there are 0:40:13.680 --> 0:40:17.799 dogs that are exceptionally good climbers that find themselves and 0:40:18.840 --> 0:40:23.240 just advantageous situations for climbing a tree. Be at the tree, 0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:26.279 is leaning, or be at the tree is a species 0:40:26.320 --> 0:40:29.640 that has really grabby bark where they can just climb. 0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:32.680 And then some dogs are just incredible climbers. And so 0:40:32.760 --> 0:40:36.040 now I've never seen a dog up that high. And 0:40:36.040 --> 0:40:39.480 it's so the story was in Tennessee that they had 0:40:39.480 --> 0:40:42.440 to call the fire department to come get this dog 0:40:42.480 --> 0:40:45.440 out of the tree. What's unclear to me is this 0:40:45.520 --> 0:40:48.839 dog must have treated a coon pretty close to the 0:40:48.920 --> 0:40:51.520 road or you know, somewhere where these guys could get 0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:56.000 to it. And then the video shows them lowering the 0:40:56.080 --> 0:40:59.200 dog out of the tree on some kind of pulley 0:40:59.320 --> 0:41:03.960 system and they yeah, so some human had to go 0:41:04.200 --> 0:41:08.680 up there, hook up the pulley system and then hooked 0:41:08.719 --> 0:41:11.400 the dog to it and they kind of used it 0:41:11.440 --> 0:41:13.600 was pretty it's pretty good. They it looked like a 0:41:13.680 --> 0:41:15.719 chest harness on the dog, but it wasn't. It was 0:41:15.760 --> 0:41:18.880 a rope that they tied themselves and then they lowered 0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:20.719 the dog down. They didn't show that part. So I 0:41:20.760 --> 0:41:22.480 don't know how they got up there to set all 0:41:22.560 --> 0:41:25.879 this up. But I mean, a dog climbing that high, 0:41:25.880 --> 0:41:28.319 they do it all the time. Dogs get killed. Uh. 0:41:28.680 --> 0:41:31.600 Good friend of mine, Brent Reeves, he and his buddy 0:41:31.680 --> 0:41:34.880 Carson just this last fall had a dog get killed 0:41:34.880 --> 0:41:37.960 that fell out of a tree. But it's so it 0:41:38.040 --> 0:41:44.000 happens chasing a raccoon. Well, they're just tree and you know, 0:41:44.080 --> 0:41:48.080 like they they don't they're not watching the raccoon go 0:41:48.160 --> 0:41:50.160 up the tree. But it's like I have a dog, 0:41:50.200 --> 0:41:54.399 one of my dogs, Steve um Jedi, you hunted with him. 0:41:54.560 --> 0:41:57.680 He's a tree climbing dude. Man, if there's a tree 0:41:57.719 --> 0:42:00.919 that has any kind of lean to it, I mean, 0:42:00.960 --> 0:42:02.720 he'll go up as high as he can't. What happens 0:42:02.760 --> 0:42:04.279 is they get up there and they can't come down. 0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:07.600 Then they fall. And now do you worry about breaking 0:42:07.640 --> 0:42:09.640 him of it? Clay? Do you try to break him 0:42:09.640 --> 0:42:12.160 of it? You just let him have at it, you know, 0:42:13.800 --> 0:42:16.239 I don't. I don't know. You know, people might say 0:42:16.280 --> 0:42:19.680 you can break them of it, but I don't really 0:42:20.000 --> 0:42:21.680 know how you would do it. I mean, they're just 0:42:21.719 --> 0:42:24.840 so pumped up when they're they've treated this coon. They're 0:42:24.920 --> 0:42:29.640 jumping on the tree, embarking. And so it happens because 0:42:29.680 --> 0:42:33.480 in chasing lions, it presents a whole another problem. Oh yeah, 0:42:33.520 --> 0:42:36.399 you get up the tree, they're gonna get into skirmish 0:42:36.800 --> 0:42:38.920 and that's how we earlier we were talking about when 0:42:39.160 --> 0:42:42.759 dogs hounds get killed by lions. It happens usually when 0:42:42.800 --> 0:42:45.640 a lion is not treed in like what you consider 0:42:45.680 --> 0:42:49.239 us a normal tree twenty feet up and a straight tree. 0:42:49.440 --> 0:42:52.440 It's like a blowdown or something, and it just jumps 0:42:52.480 --> 0:42:57.399 onto a you know, a a trunk that's only five 0:42:57.440 --> 0:42:59.600 six ft off the ground. You know, it's being supported 0:42:59.600 --> 0:43:02.440 by the anches or whatever. And then the dogs, you know, 0:43:02.560 --> 0:43:04.759 bay it for a minute off the ground. But then 0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:07.120 the dogs quickly realize, oh, I can get on the 0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:09.680 end of that tree and run right up to that thing. 0:43:09.760 --> 0:43:12.800 And the dogs have no nothing in their heads says 0:43:13.480 --> 0:43:16.319 that that thing that I'm barking at can kill me, 0:43:16.400 --> 0:43:18.239 you know what I mean, They're they're not thinking that. 0:43:18.280 --> 0:43:20.160 So they go right up to it and they want 0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:21.799 to get closer to it and bark at it and 0:43:22.120 --> 0:43:26.000 gets them in trouble. So yeah, when when I know 0:43:26.040 --> 0:43:28.080 that when Jake's dogs start climbing at all, and it's 0:43:28.120 --> 0:43:31.239 pretty amazing, like not even like grabbing like a cat 0:43:31.280 --> 0:43:33.759 would climb straight up the trunk like these dogs will 0:43:33.760 --> 0:43:37.160 actually go onto a limb, turn go to the next slimb, 0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:39.600 and turn, go to the next slim. Oh yeah, and 0:43:39.640 --> 0:43:43.359 he does not like it at all. And there's yeah, 0:43:43.440 --> 0:43:47.520 they there's there's consequences when they do it. Honest is 0:43:47.560 --> 0:43:50.040 he does he think that he can train them to 0:43:50.080 --> 0:43:54.239 not climb. The guys that I was with in Washington, 0:43:54.600 --> 0:43:57.680 Bart George and his crew, uh they do it as well. 0:43:57.800 --> 0:44:01.280 If the dogs start getting up on the uh tree, 0:44:01.320 --> 0:44:04.480 they they punish him. If you can train them, you 0:44:04.560 --> 0:44:07.720 train them to cut the tree. You trained dog do anything, 0:44:07.800 --> 0:44:10.640 so getting them stay out of tree with no problem. 0:44:10.680 --> 0:44:14.000 You just gotta set up the situation. My comment on 0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:17.239 it is basically, just like a lot of times in 0:44:17.320 --> 0:44:19.360 a tree, you're not there for a long time. It 0:44:19.440 --> 0:44:21.359 may take you a long time to get to the tree. 0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:23.880 So the dogs are they're unattended, not under you know, 0:44:24.600 --> 0:44:27.880 and just that desires watch Puss pushing them up the tree. 0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:30.640 You know. But you need that obedience set up in 0:44:30.640 --> 0:44:33.920 a yard situation. In the training situation, you'd have to 0:44:34.000 --> 0:44:36.799 simulate it as close as you could and correct the dog, 0:44:36.840 --> 0:44:38.719 because you're right, you'd never get there before the dog 0:44:38.760 --> 0:44:53.360 gets there. So yeah, backyard training Yanni's dog. You're just 0:44:53.360 --> 0:44:58.160 talking about mangus, were you? Mm hmm? Um, A long 0:44:58.200 --> 0:45:00.920 time ago, we had Dave Simonette for Trampled by Turtles 0:45:00.920 --> 0:45:04.759 on the show. Mm hmm. Musician, we're talking about how 0:45:04.760 --> 0:45:08.960 we needed a theme song from Mingus. Mingus has his 0:45:09.040 --> 0:45:20.960 own theme song now by Trampled by Turtles, Short and Sweet, 0:45:28.200 --> 0:45:31.400 Short and Sweet, ladies and gentleman does Mingus by Trampled 0:45:31.400 --> 0:45:35.920 by Turtles talk about we're gonna use the we'll use 0:45:35.960 --> 0:45:38.480 ask them what you all be sick of that? Uh, 0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:41.239 Clay do your big apology and explanation about how you 0:45:41.280 --> 0:45:46.640 messed everything up about fox hunting. Yeah, so we we 0:45:46.719 --> 0:45:50.600 talked about, we talked about I was talking about the 0:45:51.040 --> 0:45:54.680 painting on the ceiling in my office and I have 0:45:54.719 --> 0:45:59.000 a painting of an English fox hunt and I said 0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:01.399 that I put it up there because that scene no 0:46:01.440 --> 0:46:05.080 longer exists on the earth, and it's a it's like 0:46:05.080 --> 0:46:10.120 the Sistine Chapel. It's it's a painting overhead. Yeah. So 0:46:10.239 --> 0:46:13.200 all the other paintings and pictures in my office are 0:46:13.200 --> 0:46:15.359 on the walls like a normal one. I put this 0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:18.759 one on the ceiling because my point was, and what 0:46:18.840 --> 0:46:21.520 I tell people when they're in my office, as I say, 0:46:21.640 --> 0:46:24.520 do you see that scene? And it's this beautiful old 0:46:24.600 --> 0:46:28.120 painting of a of a what I presume to be 0:46:28.200 --> 0:46:31.640 an English fox hunt, and I say that no longer 0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:33.799 exists on the earth. And probably in the heat of 0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:36.560 the moment on the podcast the other day, I probably 0:46:36.600 --> 0:46:39.840 said that scene exists nowhere else on the face of 0:46:39.840 --> 0:46:43.399 the earth. That would have been a mistake. Yeah, yeah, 0:46:43.520 --> 0:46:47.680 And so so we had some really good feedback come 0:46:47.719 --> 0:46:51.760 in some people that kind of set the record straight. 0:46:51.920 --> 0:46:57.520 And also, you know, stand by my statement that that 0:46:57.680 --> 0:47:01.479 scene doesn't exist in that warm but here, Steve, here's 0:47:01.480 --> 0:47:07.480 just a quick rundown. So fox hunting became big in Europe, 0:47:07.480 --> 0:47:10.480 and like the fifteen hundreds, Germany was one of the 0:47:10.520 --> 0:47:15.319 first countries in the nineteen thirties that banned it. In 0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:20.000 two thousand two, Scotland banded fox hunting with hounds, and 0:47:20.040 --> 0:47:23.720 then in two thousand five England and Wales banned fox 0:47:23.800 --> 0:47:26.880 hunting with hounds. And it's a pretty complex situation. A 0:47:26.880 --> 0:47:29.960 lot of it had to do with land related issues, 0:47:30.000 --> 0:47:33.440 but it was primarily fueled by anti hunting people just 0:47:33.480 --> 0:47:38.080 saying we don't like people chasing foxes with dogs. So 0:47:38.760 --> 0:47:41.080 in those places though, and I guess this is where 0:47:41.080 --> 0:47:46.640 the clarity comes. They still have simulated fox hunts with 0:47:46.880 --> 0:47:54.120 scent which as a as a American houndsman, I'm not 0:47:54.320 --> 0:47:57.960 counting that as a fox hunt. It's like a Civil 0:47:58.000 --> 0:48:03.400 War reenactment they do with yeah, and so well, and 0:48:03.320 --> 0:48:05.439 and I don't want to take anything away from those 0:48:05.480 --> 0:48:09.160 people for doing that. Yeah, I mean, I I'm not 0:48:09.280 --> 0:48:12.319 cutting them down for having a simulated fox because these 0:48:12.320 --> 0:48:14.440 people hunt on horseback and they have big packs of 0:48:14.480 --> 0:48:17.680 dogs and they do these scent drags through the countryside. 0:48:17.680 --> 0:48:20.680 So I mean, I think that's great. That is a 0:48:20.680 --> 0:48:24.960 far cry from what it was. And so but here's 0:48:25.000 --> 0:48:27.920 where I learned some stuff. Okay, I had several people 0:48:27.960 --> 0:48:34.040 contact me personally in Northern Ireland and in France, real 0:48:34.160 --> 0:48:39.799 fox hunting with hounds, like chasing real fox is still legal. Um. 0:48:40.040 --> 0:48:43.319 And and then I also had a bunch of people say, oh, Clay, 0:48:43.360 --> 0:48:46.759 you're wrong because there's fox in the United States. I 0:48:46.840 --> 0:48:48.920 wasn't talking about fox in the United States. We can 0:48:49.000 --> 0:48:50.839 run all kind of stuff with hounds. I mean, it's 0:48:51.000 --> 0:48:53.919 we live. I mean this, we got some incredible rights 0:48:53.920 --> 0:48:56.040 when it comes to hound hunting in this country still 0:48:56.080 --> 0:48:58.640 to this day. And so I I know people in 0:48:58.719 --> 0:49:02.600 northwest Arkansas that do simulated fox hunts, and it's a 0:49:02.680 --> 0:49:05.120 it's an equestrian thing, you know. I mean they're riding 0:49:05.160 --> 0:49:10.040 horses fast, they've got hounds, they're doing scent drags, and 0:49:10.080 --> 0:49:12.800 there's probably real fox sense going on in the US. 0:49:12.880 --> 0:49:15.880 But I was talking about Europe and my whole idea 0:49:16.040 --> 0:49:19.239 with you know, just this kind of guarding the gate 0:49:19.320 --> 0:49:23.240 thing is that they want to take this stuff away 0:49:23.239 --> 0:49:25.040 from us, and we can look at some of these 0:49:25.080 --> 0:49:27.840 places where they have and so my painting still is 0:49:27.920 --> 0:49:33.520 on the ceiling. So yeah, I like pugnacious. At the 0:49:33.600 --> 0:49:37.160 very end, Clay nucom other people rolling in saying they 0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:40.120 were mad at me about saying that fox hunters aren't hunters. 0:49:40.400 --> 0:49:44.120 I don't know. Yeah, He's like, oh, we're out there 0:49:44.160 --> 0:49:46.920 for having a good time, loving nature all that. Another 0:49:46.960 --> 0:49:51.200 guy rolled in. He says he hunts at a place 0:49:51.280 --> 0:49:53.359 now and then these fox hunters they dragged that little 0:49:53.360 --> 0:49:55.279 smell through the woods and they all come riding after it. 0:49:56.400 --> 0:49:57.840 He said, you'll, he'll be out in the woods. He 0:49:57.920 --> 0:49:59.680 thought about being out in his tree stand. You'll, you'll 0:49:59.680 --> 0:50:02.520 be all wouldn't have forty hounds come through making a racket, 0:50:02.680 --> 0:50:05.600 followed by dozens of people on horseback dressed up in 0:50:05.600 --> 0:50:08.200 the red and green coats like the old English hunter's war. 0:50:08.960 --> 0:50:10.719 It's quite something. You're out hunting in the woods, and 0:50:10.760 --> 0:50:13.600 that rolls through. As an avid hunter, I can tell 0:50:13.600 --> 0:50:15.719 you that the people involved in this fox hunt are 0:50:15.760 --> 0:50:19.000 so unrelated to nature and real hunting that it's insulted 0:50:19.040 --> 0:50:22.440 to call the fox hunt hunt. Obviously there's no real fox, 0:50:22.920 --> 0:50:25.440 but the people this sport attracts are also the last 0:50:25.440 --> 0:50:27.120 people that would ever know what to do with the 0:50:27.160 --> 0:50:30.279 real fox, or any wild game for that matter. It's 0:50:30.320 --> 0:50:33.680 all just a social status affair. Then you're pipe and 0:50:33.719 --> 0:50:36.560 smoke it. Brodie Henderson, you know, my mom was into 0:50:36.600 --> 0:50:39.360 horses and she belonged to what was called a hunt 0:50:39.440 --> 0:50:42.799 and Saddle club. They didn't do any hunting there. I 0:50:42.800 --> 0:50:48.160 think it's like just some traditional kind of connection, you know. 0:50:48.239 --> 0:50:52.000 I think I hear what that guy's saying, but I don't. 0:50:52.120 --> 0:50:54.439 I mean, these people are on our side, I mean, 0:50:54.480 --> 0:50:57.399 if they, I mean, yeah, we can say. I think 0:50:57.440 --> 0:51:00.360 it's a pretty big stereotype. I bet there's some legit 0:51:00.440 --> 0:51:03.439 folks and those bunches. Well, he points out that what 0:51:03.600 --> 0:51:05.640 one of these One of these fellers points out, not 0:51:05.719 --> 0:51:10.200 that guy, but another feller points out that we share enemies, right, 0:51:10.560 --> 0:51:19.080 radical animal rights community. Yeah, suburban sprawl habitat, having the 0:51:19.239 --> 0:51:23.640 your the rules of your life dictated by people who 0:51:24.160 --> 0:51:26.480 make stereotypes about you and don't understand what it is 0:51:26.600 --> 0:51:28.160 exactly that you do, but they know you. They don't 0:51:28.160 --> 0:51:32.160 want you to do it. So you're bound together by 0:51:32.200 --> 0:51:34.880 your enemies. But I'll point out, I don't want to 0:51:34.880 --> 0:51:38.000 do that. I was gonna say, but I won't. I 0:51:38.040 --> 0:51:39.799 wasn't gonna say, but I shouldn't. I was gonna point 0:51:39.840 --> 0:51:41.520 out how we were friends with the Rooskis against the 0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:47.040 Germans that got us. But that wouldn't be appropriate. It 0:51:47.080 --> 0:51:49.799 wouldn't even be a good metaphor. But Patton wanted to 0:51:49.800 --> 0:51:52.960 go on and get them. Second Patton and my old man, 0:51:53.480 --> 0:51:56.080 they were ready to keep going east. Yeah, my old 0:51:56.080 --> 0:51:57.920 man thought we were halfway done with that war when 0:51:57.920 --> 0:52:01.800 we quit. Um Clay, I'm with you. I think we 0:52:01.800 --> 0:52:05.040 should not generalize, you know, just off this one email 0:52:05.239 --> 0:52:09.880 that all these mounted fox hunters are not real outdoors folks, 0:52:09.920 --> 0:52:11.920 because I think, like you said, there's probably quite a 0:52:11.960 --> 0:52:16.520 few that are. Yeah, i'd like to see the guy 0:52:16.560 --> 0:52:19.640 that wrote dead email ride dead Horse. There you go. 0:52:20.120 --> 0:52:26.799 That's interesting. Good point, Ronnie, all right, Um, onto being 0:52:27.040 --> 0:52:33.080 better outdoors folks with our weapons. I wish I can remember. 0:52:33.520 --> 0:52:36.520 Oh he says it right here. On episode to fifty 0:52:36.560 --> 0:52:39.240 two the podcast, Steve was talking about the most common 0:52:39.280 --> 0:52:44.000 firearm related injury was bird hunting. Um he and this 0:52:44.040 --> 0:52:48.960 guy agrees with him. He is a shooting instructor in 0:52:49.000 --> 0:52:53.320 the United States Coast Guard counter terrorism teams and teaches 0:52:53.400 --> 0:53:00.560 advanced marksmanship. UM. He wanted rite in to say that 0:53:01.160 --> 0:53:03.399 some of the stuff that he teaches in that sort 0:53:03.440 --> 0:53:08.920 of space can be you used for us as safety measures, 0:53:09.280 --> 0:53:12.480 you know, as hunters out in the field, and uh, 0:53:12.600 --> 0:53:15.360 just with some other projects we've been working on. UM, 0:53:15.440 --> 0:53:17.879 you know, speaking of people getting shot or getting closest shot, 0:53:17.920 --> 0:53:21.439 it's really kind of hits home right now. But there's 0:53:21.480 --> 0:53:24.960 a thing that they teach when they shoot, when they 0:53:25.040 --> 0:53:27.719 go into close quarters combat, and that's basically when they 0:53:27.719 --> 0:53:31.719 have to start engaging multiple targets, they teach them to 0:53:32.040 --> 0:53:37.200 move their eyes first then the gun. That being so 0:53:37.760 --> 0:53:40.320 one is for safety, right, because that way your eyes 0:53:40.320 --> 0:53:43.320 and brain can look at the target and go yes, 0:53:43.560 --> 0:53:45.759 that is a threat. I need to, you know, get 0:53:45.880 --> 0:53:48.080 rid of it because you can imagine close quarters. They 0:53:48.160 --> 0:53:50.840 got a bunch of their team members in there. It 0:53:50.880 --> 0:53:52.680 can be dark, it's in a house. You gotta be 0:53:52.760 --> 0:53:56.480 very careful about what direction you're shooting at where you're shooting, 0:53:56.840 --> 0:53:58.319 just like we do when we're out in the field, 0:53:58.560 --> 0:54:00.880 you know, up and bird hunting and there's whatever, ten 0:54:01.000 --> 0:54:07.160 people on a pheasant hunt. Um. And another advantage of 0:54:07.200 --> 0:54:09.719 that is he saying, is that it actually makes you 0:54:09.960 --> 0:54:13.080 faster at shooting. A lot of people think that you 0:54:13.080 --> 0:54:16.400 want to look over or swing to your target with 0:54:16.480 --> 0:54:19.600 your gun, but if you do that, you will actually 0:54:19.760 --> 0:54:22.879 pass over the target and then have to come back 0:54:22.920 --> 0:54:25.719 and correct. Whereas if you go there first with your 0:54:25.719 --> 0:54:29.799 eyes lock on, then bring your target too, then bring 0:54:29.800 --> 0:54:33.840 your pistol or rifle or shot and whatever to the target. 0:54:34.200 --> 0:54:36.839 You'll be faster doing it that way. You know what's 0:54:36.920 --> 0:54:43.960 interesting parallel there, uh is when you take out beginner 0:54:44.080 --> 0:54:48.799 hunters who aren't of customers shooting sculpt rifles, they have 0:54:48.840 --> 0:54:54.640 a very difficult time finding the d or whatever acquiring 0:54:54.640 --> 0:55:01.120 the target because they are looking through the scope, trying 0:55:01.160 --> 0:55:04.920 to get oriented through the scope and then searching for 0:55:05.000 --> 0:55:08.719 the thing. Once you get the knack of it, your 0:55:08.719 --> 0:55:13.480 eye never leaves the thing, the thing being your target, 0:55:13.480 --> 0:55:15.799 your target. You're looking at a deer on the hillside 0:55:15.920 --> 0:55:17.960 and you bring your rifle up. You don't then look 0:55:18.040 --> 0:55:21.560 for it. It's just there, like your eyes on it, 0:55:22.000 --> 0:55:24.560 and everything is. The scope is coming to your eye, 0:55:24.640 --> 0:55:26.880 which is already trained on the thing. It's hard to do, 0:55:26.920 --> 0:55:28.839 but you just figure it out over time. You don't 0:55:28.880 --> 0:55:30.200 go like, Okay, I look through the scope, then I'll 0:55:30.200 --> 0:55:32.040 start staring all over the place trying to find the thing. 0:55:32.239 --> 0:55:36.719 It's seamless i first, but you know he relates it 0:55:36.800 --> 0:55:39.000 to like getting tunnel vision, and you know you're getting 0:55:39.040 --> 0:55:42.040 real Like we always talked about the factor of lust 0:55:42.520 --> 0:55:45.040 and wanting to kill something and wanting to be successful 0:55:45.080 --> 0:55:47.840 as a hunter. And you know, you see the pheasant 0:55:47.920 --> 0:55:52.000 flush and you're so focused on that that you don't 0:55:52.040 --> 0:55:55.720 see your buddy that's in the line of fire. Right happens? 0:55:56.320 --> 0:55:58.640 It does happen? Does happen? I mean A really good 0:55:58.680 --> 0:56:01.959 example is if you shoot up like old old style 0:56:02.000 --> 0:56:06.719 South Dakota blockers flankers and pushers. The flankers are only 0:56:06.719 --> 0:56:08.839 on the outside of the field in case a bird 0:56:08.880 --> 0:56:12.600 peels out. But sometimes right when it starts, these birds 0:56:12.600 --> 0:56:14.560 start coming up in the middle and they're like, well, 0:56:14.560 --> 0:56:17.560 there's nobody here, and they're shooting the other flanker or 0:56:17.600 --> 0:56:19.439 putting shot on him. And I've seen a guy get 0:56:19.600 --> 0:56:22.360 taken right square and a lip right here flanking the 0:56:22.400 --> 0:56:24.480 field and he says, I'm not flanking anymore this week. 0:56:26.040 --> 0:56:28.160 And it, I mean, it was pretty it was. We 0:56:28.160 --> 0:56:29.600 had to get it out. We had to get the 0:56:31.160 --> 0:56:40.239 yeah mingus um, okay, more about dogs. While back, I 0:56:40.239 --> 0:56:42.959 don't know what episode it was that we were talking 0:56:43.000 --> 0:56:45.640 about blood tracking dogs and about how it's becoming a 0:56:45.760 --> 0:56:49.040 thing and more and more, states um. And a fellow 0:56:49.080 --> 0:56:52.360 rode in uh he he wasn't a member, he's not 0:56:52.400 --> 0:56:54.160 a member of the the United Blood Trackers, but he was 0:56:54.200 --> 0:56:57.879 saying that there's a lot of Facebook based groups that 0:56:58.160 --> 0:57:02.880 provide volunteer tracking service. Is two Hunters, And what was 0:57:03.000 --> 0:57:09.719 interesting is that very high success rates for for these 0:57:09.800 --> 0:57:13.759 dogs to find wounded dear that you might not find later. 0:57:14.400 --> 0:57:21.200 What kind of numbers did they say in seventeen they 0:57:21.240 --> 0:57:26.720 went on five seven tracks, had two seven total recoveries. 0:57:27.280 --> 0:57:30.320 Just makes for a success rate of fifty four point four. 0:57:31.240 --> 0:57:32.959 You know not want to know here, and it would 0:57:32.960 --> 0:57:39.000 be really important to this is is that after like, 0:57:40.200 --> 0:57:47.440 is that after you failed manually tracking? I would say typically, well, 0:57:47.440 --> 0:57:49.200 you'd have to know that because if you're just showing 0:57:49.280 --> 0:57:51.200 up off out of the gate with a dog, that 0:57:51.200 --> 0:57:53.439 doesn't impress me at all. I'll bet you though some 0:57:53.480 --> 0:57:56.240 people they're shooting one in the evening right at dark, 0:57:56.320 --> 0:58:00.440 they may just call the dog because we'll normal trailing. 0:58:00.640 --> 0:58:06.040 I mean normal trailing is yeah, you know high if 0:58:06.080 --> 0:58:10.880 but if if that's you've exhausted your manual tracking abilities 0:58:11.200 --> 0:58:15.280 and then you're recovering of what couldn't have been recovered otherwise, 0:58:15.520 --> 0:58:18.480 that's impressive. Yeah. I mean my only exposure to this 0:58:18.640 --> 0:58:22.360 was in Idaho. They used a woman shot a bear 0:58:22.440 --> 0:58:27.400 right at dark. It was raining um and they brought 0:58:27.520 --> 0:58:30.000 in a teeny little blood tracking dog. That bear had 0:58:30.040 --> 0:58:33.040 only gone a hundred yards. I don't think we would 0:58:33.040 --> 0:58:35.960 have ever found it. It was buried in the brush. 0:58:36.080 --> 0:58:38.760 We couldn't see any blood. So it was a pretty 0:58:38.760 --> 0:58:41.080 impressive and it it was quick. It was a couple 0:58:41.080 --> 0:58:43.480 of minutes that dog found. Hey, don't get me wrong, man, 0:58:43.560 --> 0:58:45.880 I'm not down on it. I think that they should 0:58:46.600 --> 0:58:50.080 loosen whatever restrictions are in place and make it that 0:58:50.280 --> 0:58:52.640 it's just the thing. I wish that, like every community 0:58:52.680 --> 0:58:55.200 had a community to help people with recovery. I'm not 0:58:55.240 --> 0:58:58.640 down on it. I'm saying if if you could up, 0:58:58.880 --> 0:59:01.840 if after you exhausted possibilities and you brought a dog 0:59:01.880 --> 0:59:06.080 and then had a fifty of recovering, that's phenomenal. Yeah, 0:59:06.240 --> 0:59:08.320 I'd say that's more of the rule of the rule. 0:59:08.440 --> 0:59:11.400 I've interviewed three three trackers and they're coming into after 0:59:11.440 --> 0:59:15.120 they can't find it. Very rare. Would they just go 0:59:15.240 --> 0:59:17.640 in without any intel, just say hey, I shot, just 0:59:17.680 --> 0:59:19.880 come out with me. But would you say, you know, 0:59:20.600 --> 0:59:23.360 time we could find it. So it's almost always after 0:59:23.800 --> 0:59:27.800 a bad weather condition or inability to find anything. No 0:59:28.880 --> 0:59:31.440 blood thing always gets them. So when they get called in, 0:59:31.680 --> 0:59:34.200 it's because usually of a lack of blood. Most people 0:59:34.280 --> 0:59:36.120 see blood that keep going, they don't, They don't look 0:59:36.120 --> 0:59:39.440 for help. And the dogs are able to now track 0:59:39.560 --> 0:59:42.560 from the dearest tarso gland, which is just like our 0:59:42.600 --> 0:59:44.960 thumb print, Like the FBI is not gonna mistake your 0:59:45.000 --> 0:59:48.080 thumb print for mine. A dog, well trained dogs not 0:59:48.080 --> 0:59:52.000 gonna I'm not gonna mistake that tarso gland smell. It's 0:59:52.120 --> 0:59:55.320 that dear's individual scent. I'm on that. I'm I'm on 0:59:55.400 --> 0:59:58.040 Bobby Ranilla and I'm chasing him across as air a 0:59:58.040 --> 1:00:00.560 lot farm and I'll find him. It's funny mentioned because 1:00:00.560 --> 1:00:02.840 I got a nephew name Bobby, were knowing, I knew that. 1:00:05.080 --> 1:00:07.800 The other thing that would affect that statistic is how 1:00:07.840 --> 1:00:14.400 many of those deer didn't die? Like, so you got there. Yeah, 1:00:14.400 --> 1:00:18.240 so there's some percentage of those unrecovered deer that didn't die, 1:00:18.280 --> 1:00:20.200 which I would think would be pretty high. I think 1:00:20.240 --> 1:00:23.920 a lot of deers survive, you know what people you know, 1:00:24.000 --> 1:00:27.400 just flesh wounds, and so that makes it even a 1:00:27.480 --> 1:00:31.880 higher percentage of dead deer that are recovered. And actually, 1:00:31.880 --> 1:00:36.560 as they've got numbers all the way through UH and 1:00:36.640 --> 1:00:40.080 the percentages are are every year, it seems a steadily 1:00:40.120 --> 1:00:49.000 increase Like success straight got up to sixty six mhm. Okay, yeah, 1:00:49.360 --> 1:00:53.320 ready take it away. Where would you go to recon 1:00:53.640 --> 1:00:58.000 fighting coons and dogs and barrels or whatever? I said, Well, okay, 1:00:57.840 --> 1:01:00.000 I listened. Believe it or not, I listened to your podcast. 1:01:00.080 --> 1:01:02.360 Is quite often and every once in a while I 1:01:02.400 --> 1:01:04.840 hear you tell a story and I just cringe because 1:01:04.840 --> 1:01:09.240 it came from you. I know where, I know the source, 1:01:10.240 --> 1:01:12.480 but I know for a fact that I did not 1:01:12.720 --> 1:01:15.880 say it like that. But one of the reasons is 1:01:16.520 --> 1:01:19.160 when I sit with you anywhere, and this has been 1:01:19.200 --> 1:01:21.520 since the day you worked for me an eighteen years old, 1:01:21.880 --> 1:01:24.640 you like to engage and ask questions like I could 1:01:24.640 --> 1:01:27.120 start telling a story and go whoa wait a minute, wait, 1:01:27.280 --> 1:01:31.360 so this guy? So you remember things and I was 1:01:31.400 --> 1:01:34.440 talking about and Clay, Clay, you got to jump in 1:01:34.480 --> 1:01:37.680 on this because you're the coon hunter. Um. Friends of 1:01:37.720 --> 1:01:40.000 mine told me this story that if you don't want 1:01:40.040 --> 1:01:43.520 your dog chasing deer, you put the coon dog in 1:01:43.560 --> 1:01:46.160 a barrel with a bunch of deer legs and roll 1:01:46.240 --> 1:01:49.840 it down a hill. Now, barbaric, silly, local legend, whatever 1:01:49.880 --> 1:01:52.880 it is. I started googling this morning and there's a 1:01:52.920 --> 1:01:55.840 guy who uses doe urine in a in a cup 1:01:56.240 --> 1:01:58.440 on an electric fence and when the dogs going to 1:01:58.520 --> 1:02:01.720 smell the dog urine, the dough year and the dog 1:02:01.760 --> 1:02:05.640 gets a shock from the electric fences. Great, what, Clay, 1:02:05.720 --> 1:02:08.360 what what have you heard for old legends of breaking 1:02:08.400 --> 1:02:12.120 them from tress. They call it chasing trash. Well, if 1:02:12.160 --> 1:02:15.200 Clay doesn't have any, I got it. I've got one. 1:02:15.360 --> 1:02:19.200 Let's hear it. Go ahead. You know I don't have 1:02:19.280 --> 1:02:23.480 anything beyond that. I mean the real world, like houndsman 1:02:24.000 --> 1:02:28.040 typically don't or at least a brand I'm around. Don't 1:02:28.040 --> 1:02:30.360 buy into that kind of stuff. It's a lot more natural. 1:02:30.720 --> 1:02:34.480 There's a lot of really pretty easy ways to break right, right. 1:02:34.840 --> 1:02:36.760 I don't even know if whatever happened, right, I just 1:02:37.120 --> 1:02:39.960 I just know, guys, I've heard of that same one 1:02:40.640 --> 1:02:44.800 Ronnie about you know dough y'arin electric fans. Well, I 1:02:44.840 --> 1:02:47.640 don't have anything, right, let me tell you one here. 1:02:48.240 --> 1:02:52.280 It would work to keep the dog out of barrels. Though, dogs, 1:02:52.440 --> 1:02:55.040 you don't even worry about me chasing barrels. Yeah, never 1:02:55.040 --> 1:02:57.200 gonna happen again. I see a barrel, I go the 1:02:57.280 --> 1:03:01.360 other way too, Okay, from this same guys, I don't 1:03:01.360 --> 1:03:04.720 want to see who they are from way back, the 1:03:04.800 --> 1:03:07.800 same guys that you came away with the story about 1:03:07.840 --> 1:03:09.480 you fill up a barrel full of deer legs and 1:03:09.600 --> 1:03:14.120 rolling down the hill. And I was unsettled by this 1:03:14.720 --> 1:03:17.400 when I heard it from them, back when nothing would 1:03:17.480 --> 1:03:20.720 unsettled me, but I was unsettled by this. They would 1:03:20.720 --> 1:03:22.880 also say that when they had one of their dogs 1:03:23.680 --> 1:03:26.520 kill a fawn, they said, what you do is you 1:03:26.720 --> 1:03:29.720 hang the dog up in a tree by its collar 1:03:30.480 --> 1:03:34.320 and whoop it with the fawn. That is brutal. Well, 1:03:34.640 --> 1:03:36.840 and I later thought that can't be true. We had 1:03:36.840 --> 1:03:38.840 a guy said I didn't put it on Instagram because 1:03:38.840 --> 1:03:41.040 it was too graphic. We had a guy send us 1:03:41.040 --> 1:03:44.080 in a picture. He was very upset by it. It 1:03:44.200 --> 1:03:46.560 was like a high test collar and a high test lead, 1:03:46.640 --> 1:03:50.240 like the kind houndsman news, like those bright orange, real 1:03:50.320 --> 1:03:56.200 heavy freaking collars hanging from a tree, and underneath that 1:03:56.280 --> 1:04:00.840 collar was a stack of dog bones, telling you what. 1:04:00.920 --> 1:04:02.840 And he thought he's a hunter. He found it. He's like, 1:04:02.880 --> 1:04:06.080 this is insane. No one knows what happened at night. 1:04:08.160 --> 1:04:12.960 I don't know, No, I don't know. Bad apples for sure. 1:04:13.360 --> 1:04:16.480 I'm I don't know what happened that night, but I'm 1:04:16.560 --> 1:04:19.320 assuming it's condemnable. But I'm just saying, like I heard 1:04:19.400 --> 1:04:22.000 that a long time ago. And we're and you know, 1:04:22.120 --> 1:04:26.360 we're talking about like, well, people us do a lot 1:04:26.400 --> 1:04:29.000 of things that they shouldn't do. Right right, Well you 1:04:29.040 --> 1:04:33.080 said you, Oh mine wasn't. My dad used to uh, 1:04:33.240 --> 1:04:35.760 his this is for you personally or no dog, No, 1:04:35.960 --> 1:04:38.160 his his bird dog. He was a gross center back 1:04:38.160 --> 1:04:41.120 when Pennsylvania used to have grouse, and that dog would 1:04:41.120 --> 1:04:44.640 occasionally chase deer and it was nothing as bad as 1:04:44.800 --> 1:04:47.680 what we've already talked about. But he'd hang a piece 1:04:47.720 --> 1:04:51.000 of deer hide soaked in and dough yearn on that 1:04:51.040 --> 1:04:54.960 dog's collar. I have no idea if it like to 1:04:55.000 --> 1:04:57.040 make it sick of it. Yeah, yeah, it's just he 1:04:57.120 --> 1:04:59.200 did it. Who knows if. I don't know if it worked, 1:04:59.240 --> 1:05:01.840 but that was something he still talks about doing that 1:05:01.880 --> 1:05:04.560 to this day. I've had guys telling me about trying 1:05:04.600 --> 1:05:07.640 a skunk hide onto a dog to make the dog 1:05:07.680 --> 1:05:09.720 get sick of skunk hide smell, or just get so 1:05:09.920 --> 1:05:11.960 used to it they don't pay any attention to it. 1:05:12.000 --> 1:05:14.840 I don't know. You know what's funny about you telling 1:05:15.000 --> 1:05:17.439 how I tell your stories and get him a little 1:05:17.480 --> 1:05:19.560 as Yet, there's a I can't tell the story because 1:05:19.560 --> 1:05:22.400 it's very very sensitive material. I could do it if 1:05:22.400 --> 1:05:26.080 I took my time, very sensitive material. But Ronnie had 1:05:26.120 --> 1:05:30.040 a story that happened to him I told my brother 1:05:31.040 --> 1:05:34.200 the story about what happened to Ronnie. A couple of 1:05:34.240 --> 1:05:37.960 years go by, he's drunk and he's telling Ronnie's story 1:05:38.120 --> 1:05:41.600 about what happened to me. And Ronnie's halfway through the stories, like, 1:05:41.720 --> 1:05:46.000 wait a minute, that that's my story. That always happens 1:05:46.000 --> 1:05:54.520 at the fish check. Uh? Where were we? Keep going around? Well, 1:05:54.560 --> 1:05:58.800 where are we at? Oh? As far as the scandal, 1:05:58.880 --> 1:06:06.320 So it's like the Ukraine scandal. There there is in America. 1:06:06.520 --> 1:06:10.720 There are sporting dog groups, right, individual breed groups. One 1:06:10.800 --> 1:06:14.520 is Deutsch Drathar Deutsch Kurtzhar, which is a German short hair, 1:06:14.600 --> 1:06:17.919 German wire hair, and there's other breed clubs that they 1:06:18.200 --> 1:06:21.600 hold to the standards of the European testing system, which 1:06:21.640 --> 1:06:24.560 is what NAVDA it's kind of based on. Explain NAVDA 1:06:24.600 --> 1:06:27.760 real quick well. Navda's North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association. 1:06:28.480 --> 1:06:31.480 And what we're looking for is a well rounded dog 1:06:31.560 --> 1:06:33.960 that does good work before and after the shot on 1:06:34.120 --> 1:06:38.200 land and on water. Like and you're a judge for NAVDA, right, Yeah, 1:06:38.320 --> 1:06:42.840 I've been judging twenty years for him, and so that's 1:06:42.840 --> 1:06:46.760 what we're looking for. But in the European test and 1:06:46.800 --> 1:06:49.000 I can't. Actually I did call a friend when I 1:06:49.040 --> 1:06:50.520 knew I was coming on. I did call a friend 1:06:50.520 --> 1:06:54.600 in Germany. And what they used to do at least 1:06:54.600 --> 1:06:56.760 this is my understanding. Somebody can write in and straighten 1:06:56.760 --> 1:06:59.120 it all out and your German and I'm beam with 1:06:59.120 --> 1:07:01.880 an um lot over the but we dropped doom lot. 1:07:02.320 --> 1:07:09.280 It's actually been um anyway. So during a test they 1:07:09.280 --> 1:07:12.840 went they may not have a let's say, what they 1:07:12.840 --> 1:07:14.720 don't have. What's a version of a raccoon in Europe 1:07:14.800 --> 1:07:21.480 um badgers. There a European raccoon, the European badger. So 1:07:21.600 --> 1:07:24.320 the dogs, because the dogs are always not the badgers 1:07:24.320 --> 1:07:26.640 and raccoons are like the same thing, but they're they're 1:07:26.680 --> 1:07:29.640 a geating bird eating ground eating critters that sure do 1:07:29.640 --> 1:07:32.280 you want to get rid of. So, because in Europe 1:07:32.320 --> 1:07:35.280 everything is on private ground, they wanted to keep the 1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:38.280 grounds as pristine as possible for the ground nesting birds 1:07:38.280 --> 1:07:40.200 in the rabbits, which are the game that they're hunting. 1:07:40.640 --> 1:07:43.560 So the dogs were always expected to dispatch any kind 1:07:43.600 --> 1:07:46.640 of vermin, whatever, whatever they could catch in the course 1:07:46.640 --> 1:07:49.120 of a day. That if he came across the groundhog, 1:07:49.280 --> 1:07:52.040 if he came across a badger came across the raccoon 1:07:52.120 --> 1:07:57.080 skunk kill it eliminate the competition, eliminate everything so the 1:07:57.160 --> 1:08:00.440 hunter can get something with his shotgun. So part of 1:08:00.480 --> 1:08:03.440 their testing format on a test day, there's no way 1:08:03.440 --> 1:08:06.160 you could guarantee like you're going to run into a 1:08:06.240 --> 1:08:10.040 raccoon on a test day. They but what they would do. 1:08:10.400 --> 1:08:13.760 There's a breed, a breed warden who also does the 1:08:13.800 --> 1:08:16.320 confirmation of the dog and make sure that this dog 1:08:16.360 --> 1:08:18.000 should be bred to that dog. It's kind of like 1:08:18.360 --> 1:08:23.120 that old school arranged marriages. They get very concerned with 1:08:23.600 --> 1:08:25.559 the coat on that dog versus the code on this 1:08:25.600 --> 1:08:28.360 dog or the furnishings they call it. There's a lot 1:08:28.400 --> 1:08:30.880 of they call the dog's color. It's furnishings. No, it's 1:08:30.920 --> 1:08:33.479 coat coat. Yeah, so when it has the big beard 1:08:33.760 --> 1:08:37.559 in the big fuzzy faces, furnishings, right, yeah, Rusty always 1:08:37.560 --> 1:08:42.439 thought it was the testicles. Know, He's always going like, hey, 1:08:42.640 --> 1:08:48.000 how's that dog's furnishing. Oh yeah, it didn't have any 1:08:48.280 --> 1:08:53.840 furnish anyway. So so during like right now, currently, this 1:08:53.880 --> 1:08:57.640 is a friend of mine. Uh no, I won't even 1:08:57.680 --> 1:08:59.720 say what he's decorated for anyway, He's he's over in 1:08:59.720 --> 1:09:04.360 yourpe right now working for us. Yeah, and so he 1:09:04.439 --> 1:09:10.919 has a German breath. Well, I don't know if I 1:09:10.920 --> 1:09:12.880 I really I don't know how far we're gonna go 1:09:12.880 --> 1:09:16.400 into that. But anyway, he told me that in Germany 1:09:16.520 --> 1:09:18.960 right now, if this happens in the course of a 1:09:19.160 --> 1:09:22.599 hunt and you're with somebody as a witness, okay, they 1:09:22.640 --> 1:09:25.240 that is still a desirable trait. So if you and 1:09:25.280 --> 1:09:27.639 I were out hunting and my dog even a feral cat, 1:09:28.320 --> 1:09:31.719 my dog dispatched a feral cat, I could say, like Steve, 1:09:31.720 --> 1:09:34.639 write a note to my breed Warden that you're a hunter. 1:09:34.920 --> 1:09:37.280 I saw, I saw Ron's dog do it, and it 1:09:37.320 --> 1:09:41.400 would go. It would be duly noted in that dog's paperwork. Now, 1:09:42.120 --> 1:09:44.519 what they've done here, I can't speak for Germany, but 1:09:44.560 --> 1:09:47.640 when I started getting into the Versaill Dog world, I 1:09:47.680 --> 1:09:49.320 knew a lot of people that were in what's called 1:09:49.320 --> 1:09:51.080 the v d d g n A that's very in 1:09:51.120 --> 1:09:55.760 Deutsch Rat Group North America, and that's the group that 1:09:55.800 --> 1:10:00.440 the fellow from Alaska wrote the email from. Okay, Um, 1:10:00.720 --> 1:10:04.080 the best of my knowledge, that is still a requirement 1:10:04.160 --> 1:10:07.000 to breed. They want to make sure that your dog 1:10:07.040 --> 1:10:11.240 will dispatch game. And they called a sharpness or hardness hardness. 1:10:11.400 --> 1:10:15.040 I think it's hardness like HD. What would most American 1:10:15.880 --> 1:10:19.320 upland hunters with dogs, I would think would consider that 1:10:19.360 --> 1:10:22.280 to be an undesirable trade. Well, I've always said they 1:10:22.280 --> 1:10:25.600 wouldn't have started if they had porcupines in Germany, Like 1:10:25.640 --> 1:10:27.840 I really think they would not if they had porcupines 1:10:27.880 --> 1:10:32.920 in Germany. That it's because porcupines are the worst thing 1:10:32.960 --> 1:10:34.880 for a dog to get into. My dogs have killed 1:10:34.960 --> 1:10:37.160 raccoons to get a scratch on the ear. Go kill 1:10:37.200 --> 1:10:40.080 a porcupine and it's six dollars of emergency that you know, 1:10:40.200 --> 1:10:43.960 I'm taken out. So anyway, So that was part of 1:10:44.000 --> 1:10:46.559 the testing to the best of my knowledge, and to 1:10:46.600 --> 1:10:49.360 the best of my knowledge it still is. But you know, 1:10:49.400 --> 1:10:55.320 somebody can write in the controversy came up um in NAVDA. 1:10:55.760 --> 1:11:00.479 Nowhere in our testing do we test on for. But 1:11:00.840 --> 1:11:03.200 you are allowed in this one part of a one 1:11:03.200 --> 1:11:06.679 part of our utility test. We take typically a duck 1:11:07.600 --> 1:11:09.680 and we put like a long leash on it, and 1:11:09.720 --> 1:11:11.960 it's called a drag. So the dog is over in 1:11:12.000 --> 1:11:14.400 the truck with the owner. I make a little feather pile, 1:11:14.400 --> 1:11:17.240 and I dragged this duck yards and the dead duck 1:11:17.280 --> 1:11:20.519 a dead duck, and I drag it into the woods 1:11:20.600 --> 1:11:22.519 and kind of hide it. And then I go behind 1:11:22.520 --> 1:11:24.599 another tree or something to stay out away from the dog. 1:11:25.160 --> 1:11:27.639 I blow my whistle. They call the owner. The dog 1:11:27.680 --> 1:11:29.960 comes up. Now, this isn't the dog's test of nose 1:11:30.040 --> 1:11:33.679 because a dead duck dragon in the grass. I mean, anybody, 1:11:33.680 --> 1:11:38.120 your dog at home could find that. We can try 1:11:38.120 --> 1:11:41.360 it tonight if you had time. Um, But what this 1:11:41.400 --> 1:11:44.880 does is shows the dog's cooperation and obedience, like you 1:11:44.960 --> 1:11:49.639 have to go retrieve that. And in our rules, because 1:11:50.200 --> 1:11:53.080 we have a big background, we have a historic connection 1:11:53.120 --> 1:11:56.320 with Germany. Boat a winner held it started NAVDA. You 1:11:56.320 --> 1:12:01.160 know he came from that world, and we allow replacement 1:12:01.240 --> 1:12:03.760 if the chapter will provide a duck. But if you 1:12:03.800 --> 1:12:06.120 are a person that wants to do it with a 1:12:06.200 --> 1:12:09.160 rabbit or a squirrel or a woodchuck, you could bring 1:12:09.200 --> 1:12:13.720 your own dead let's say, cold dead road kill or 1:12:13.760 --> 1:12:17.840 something you had in refrigerator the night before. Because a 1:12:17.920 --> 1:12:19.840 lot of the members from v D D G n 1:12:19.960 --> 1:12:24.160 A are also members of Navada, so they're practicing. These 1:12:24.160 --> 1:12:26.040 are people that really like to test their dogs. So 1:12:26.080 --> 1:12:27.800 they come to our venue and they test their dogs, 1:12:27.840 --> 1:12:29.880 and they go in their venue and test dogs and 1:12:29.920 --> 1:12:32.599 their and their venue. There's a lot more of these 1:12:32.720 --> 1:12:37.240 drag which is the retrieve, and there's a lot of emphasis. 1:12:37.479 --> 1:12:40.880 There's an old saying that the Europeans want a tracking dog, 1:12:40.920 --> 1:12:43.800 little point and Americans want to pointing dog, little track. 1:12:44.640 --> 1:12:47.679 So their emphasis in Europe has always been on recovery 1:12:47.680 --> 1:12:50.240 of game. Like you are not allowed to go upland 1:12:50.280 --> 1:12:52.919 hunting your duck hunting without a dog. You can in America, 1:12:53.000 --> 1:12:55.920 but not in Europe, not in Germany, and you can't 1:12:55.920 --> 1:13:00.160 big game hunt unless you have the resources of it's 1:13:00.160 --> 1:13:02.280 like a United Blood trackers, which they don't have there, 1:13:02.680 --> 1:13:06.160 but they always have. Like the hunting property that Ben 1:13:06.200 --> 1:13:07.880 told me about it, they call it a reserve. Might 1:13:07.880 --> 1:13:11.160 be two or three farmers get together and let's say, okay, 1:13:11.240 --> 1:13:13.280 let's let's get a lesi to come out here and 1:13:13.280 --> 1:13:15.200 they can hunt and they can, you know, take some 1:13:15.280 --> 1:13:17.200 of the road deer or the red deer whatever is 1:13:17.200 --> 1:13:20.320 on the in that area. And you know, if there's ducks, 1:13:20.320 --> 1:13:22.920 they can hunt ducks. So those hunters are kind of 1:13:22.920 --> 1:13:27.280 in charge of that piece of property. And so in 1:13:27.760 --> 1:13:30.240 Germany or in the vd d g n A testing, 1:13:30.880 --> 1:13:34.000 they do a lot more recovery, so they want they 1:13:34.080 --> 1:13:37.240 actually will drag a dead fox and they call it 1:13:37.240 --> 1:13:39.200 a fox in a box that dogs jump over like 1:13:39.200 --> 1:13:42.080 a box edge and retrieve a fox and bring a 1:13:42.080 --> 1:13:45.920 fox back a rabbit backup, you know. So that's where 1:13:45.960 --> 1:13:50.120 the that little miss up happened. We don't trained for 1:13:50.200 --> 1:13:52.240 it in our test, but at one portion of lar 1:13:52.360 --> 1:13:55.000 test you are allowed to bring in your own cold 1:13:55.080 --> 1:13:58.040 fur god for that portion test. Nowhere else in the 1:13:58.120 --> 1:14:01.840 test can you substitute whatever the chapter would provide for you. 1:14:02.280 --> 1:14:06.040 Can you explain what you were telling me about you 1:14:06.080 --> 1:14:11.160 mentioned that in certain German systems where there's a person 1:14:11.200 --> 1:14:14.560 that you mentioned the arranged marriage thing. Yeah, you that 1:14:14.640 --> 1:14:16.519 you could have a dog and bring it down and 1:14:16.520 --> 1:14:19.880 and that dog would get stamped do not breed right 1:14:19.880 --> 1:14:22.519 if if the dog, if the dog failed, Let's say 1:14:23.720 --> 1:14:25.800 let's say the dog did fail. It's hard dis test 1:14:26.240 --> 1:14:28.720 like this dog just can't close the deal on a 1:14:28.760 --> 1:14:31.519 skunk or a possum or whatever. They would stamp do 1:14:31.560 --> 1:14:35.679 not breed on their papers because you can't breed within 1:14:35.720 --> 1:14:38.479 the club without the blessing of the club. We're in America. 1:14:38.920 --> 1:14:40.559 You and I could breed your dog and my dog. 1:14:40.720 --> 1:14:43.400 No one's gonna stop me. But in when you're in 1:14:43.479 --> 1:14:46.720 that club, of that breed club, the breed warden, like 1:14:46.800 --> 1:14:49.840 he sits at the throne of the breeding, he'll say like, 1:14:50.040 --> 1:14:53.599 Steve's got a dog that's um got a nice coat, 1:14:53.840 --> 1:14:56.719 maybe not a great undercoat, and Ron's got a dog 1:14:56.760 --> 1:14:58.600 that's coat would compliment that. Now they have to have 1:14:58.640 --> 1:15:02.559 all the hunting skills up there through testing. See oh, 1:15:03.000 --> 1:15:05.360 in that club, you also don't get to breed your 1:15:05.400 --> 1:15:09.320 dog unless it passes these tests. We're Navada. You could 1:15:09.360 --> 1:15:11.280 fail your dog and still go to your neighbor and 1:15:11.280 --> 1:15:13.120 breed your German short hair to his German short hair. 1:15:13.160 --> 1:15:15.160 They could both and sell it as a German short hair. 1:15:16.600 --> 1:15:20.920 But they don't have to pass the test to be bred. 1:15:21.080 --> 1:15:24.600 But if it's in the European judging system or or 1:15:24.760 --> 1:15:28.000 breed club system, those dogs not only have to participate 1:15:28.040 --> 1:15:30.000 in the test, they have to get a passing score. 1:15:30.760 --> 1:15:32.920 So you don't have a bunch of you know, guys 1:15:32.960 --> 1:15:37.240 like me in high school breeding Basically, uh what in 1:15:37.320 --> 1:15:41.920 your mind based on uh, your experienced judge and dogs. 1:15:43.320 --> 1:15:46.280 If someone's gonna go this is highly subjective. I understand 1:15:47.080 --> 1:15:49.599 if someone's gonna go buy a dog, like I don't 1:15:49.680 --> 1:15:51.080 know what kind of dog to get. I want the 1:15:51.120 --> 1:15:54.200 most versatile dog I can find on the planet. You 1:15:54.240 --> 1:15:57.640 would say, the one that was near and dearest to 1:15:57.680 --> 1:16:00.760 my heart was a German wire head pointer, which is 1:16:01.400 --> 1:16:06.240 the English version of Deutsche droth her so. Deutsche is 1:16:06.280 --> 1:16:11.880 German dropped her is wire hair, so German wire hare. 1:16:12.000 --> 1:16:14.800 That's always been my go to favorite dog. But that's 1:16:14.800 --> 1:16:17.679 not the kind of dog you run. No. I got 1:16:17.680 --> 1:16:20.280 tired of all the cats and all the deer and 1:16:20.360 --> 1:16:24.160 the fawns and the porcupines, and the dog fights, and 1:16:24.280 --> 1:16:26.799 because they're just too aggressive. They can be to aggress 1:16:26.800 --> 1:16:30.000 shouldn't say too aggresive, they're aggressive, they're aggressive. Yeah, if 1:16:30.000 --> 1:16:32.880 there's a dog that's prone to, you know, even getting 1:16:32.880 --> 1:16:35.760 a fight with another dog, it's a dog that's got that. 1:16:36.080 --> 1:16:38.599 He's kind of like a hyper vigilant dog. It's almost 1:16:38.680 --> 1:16:41.600 like picture a bunch of guys that fighting m m 1:16:41.680 --> 1:16:43.400 A and going drinking with them. There's probably gonna be 1:16:43.439 --> 1:16:45.720 a fight in the bar that night, right, But if 1:16:45.720 --> 1:16:47.320 you went to the men tell you not, they tell 1:16:47.360 --> 1:16:50.360 you because it's all that aggression is released into the ring. 1:16:50.640 --> 1:16:52.840 Yeah all that. Yeah, And what's funny is I went 1:16:52.840 --> 1:16:55.120 to an M m A fight one time and watched 1:16:55.479 --> 1:16:58.800 no fewer than three fights in the crowd, including one 1:16:58.800 --> 1:17:03.120 that sent a woman away on a stretcher. But then, meanwhile, 1:17:03.200 --> 1:17:06.240 was supposed to be that there's no it's all alleviated 1:17:06.320 --> 1:17:09.040 through the spectacle. I'm like, oh, you can't like a 1:17:09.080 --> 1:17:11.200 hockey game. You can't take the hard the hardness out 1:17:11.200 --> 1:17:14.479 of the dog, you know. So so the dogs I run, now, 1:17:14.600 --> 1:17:17.800 yeah they are. They're kind of known for not The 1:17:17.840 --> 1:17:21.760 Italians are not. They don't have that type of testing system. 1:17:21.800 --> 1:17:24.439 They've never had it. The dogs just had to perform 1:17:24.479 --> 1:17:28.960 in the field for upland game. So generations, hundreds of 1:17:29.000 --> 1:17:31.040 years of that get a dog that really doesn't care 1:17:31.120 --> 1:17:34.000 much about you know. For now, it still happens, don't. 1:17:34.280 --> 1:17:37.840 Don't get me wrong. Bravo Bravos killed a couple of 1:17:37.920 --> 1:17:40.639 cats in his later years for some reason. I don't 1:17:40.640 --> 1:17:44.640 know why, but I would trust him around most domestic animals. 1:17:44.960 --> 1:17:48.280 A broco Italiano still has that. They're just pretty. They're 1:17:48.320 --> 1:17:52.960 just not interested in for but the German wire hair 1:17:53.040 --> 1:17:56.680 or Deutsch strathire, or the German short hair or the 1:17:56.840 --> 1:18:01.679 German equivalent is the Deutsch kurtzher. Those animals are more 1:18:01.760 --> 1:18:04.679 prone to Like if you're out hunting in a feral 1:18:04.720 --> 1:18:07.559 cat scoots out of the grass, that's the last run 1:18:07.640 --> 1:18:10.439 for the cat. It's gonna be honest. What's the worst 1:18:10.520 --> 1:18:13.960 kind of dog? Oh, there's no worst. It's really that 1:18:14.040 --> 1:18:16.760 gets down to breeding, Like if if what what I 1:18:16.800 --> 1:18:18.679 mentioned earlier, If so, there's not a kind of dog 1:18:18.720 --> 1:18:21.080 that people insist on buying, and then you, after all 1:18:21.080 --> 1:18:23.519 the testing experience you've had, you're just like you just 1:18:23.920 --> 1:18:28.240 you're wasting your time. I would say, I would say 1:18:28.240 --> 1:18:30.280 in every breed of dog, I could find you one 1:18:30.360 --> 1:18:33.040 that would be adequate in the field. But there are 1:18:33.160 --> 1:18:36.000 breeds that haven't had the testing and and kind of 1:18:36.040 --> 1:18:39.360 lost favor with the upland hunter over the Like the 1:18:39.400 --> 1:18:41.880 one that everybody talks about is the Irish center. You know, 1:18:42.000 --> 1:18:46.040 real pretty mahogany coat, you know, just a friendly dog. 1:18:46.360 --> 1:18:48.360 Back in the day. That was the upland dog in 1:18:48.400 --> 1:18:52.800 North America for for years, and then the popularity when 1:18:52.840 --> 1:18:55.479 the German dogs came over after War War two, the 1:18:55.560 --> 1:18:58.000 hunters started going for German short hairs and German wire hairs, 1:18:58.000 --> 1:19:02.360 and win Mariners, and and and the the breeders who 1:19:02.400 --> 1:19:07.320 are still breeding the ira center. They just lost popularity. 1:19:07.479 --> 1:19:09.559 And so right now to take an Irish center and 1:19:09.560 --> 1:19:11.800 put it in through our system, it could be done, 1:19:11.800 --> 1:19:14.200 and it is done. But if you called me up 1:19:14.200 --> 1:19:15.920 and said, ron, I want a versatild dog and my 1:19:15.960 --> 1:19:18.880 wife wants Iras center, I'd say, let's get you one 1:19:18.880 --> 1:19:31.479 that you got a better chance of. Yeah, Brody, telling 1:19:31.479 --> 1:19:35.200 about your dog, Man, Oh, the English springer Spaniel. He's 1:19:35.240 --> 1:19:39.000 got big shoes to fill. Man, my dog was good 1:19:39.800 --> 1:19:45.160 and that dog just required very little training. But um, 1:19:45.200 --> 1:19:48.040 I went a year after that first one died. I 1:19:48.040 --> 1:19:49.679 didn't know if I was going to get another one. 1:19:50.120 --> 1:19:55.760 Got another Springer Spaniel, and uh, man, it's just it's 1:19:55.800 --> 1:19:58.599 not his fault. It's like he's coming along. I shot 1:19:58.640 --> 1:20:01.000 a couple of grouse over him, pheasants, a couple of 1:20:01.080 --> 1:20:05.080 ducks over him last last fall, and the old dog 1:20:05.120 --> 1:20:09.439 would retrieve ducks. This one will not so far. Um, 1:20:09.479 --> 1:20:14.360 how old is it, Brodie, He's about sixteen months now. Um, 1:20:14.600 --> 1:20:18.240 give him time. Well, that's the problem. Is like I 1:20:18.320 --> 1:20:21.720 just you know, I go hunting for other stuff and 1:20:21.760 --> 1:20:25.080 don't dedicate enough time to training him, and so hopefully 1:20:25.120 --> 1:20:29.320 he'll come along. I'm not writing him off yet. What 1:20:29.400 --> 1:20:31.120 do you think of the general name of the dog? 1:20:31.640 --> 1:20:34.720 What's the dog's name, Dusty? The name of the kind 1:20:34.760 --> 1:20:39.200 of daylish springers a flushing dog. So I don't have 1:20:39.240 --> 1:20:41.840 a lot of background with flushing dogs. There's three major types. 1:20:41.880 --> 1:20:46.799 The hounds that that Clay has, which for tracking, mostly 1:20:46.840 --> 1:20:50.280 for big game or raccoons, and then you have the 1:20:50.280 --> 1:20:52.720 flushing dogs, which are in the retriever category. So you've 1:20:52.720 --> 1:20:57.439 got Springer Spaniels, Irish water Spaniel, Labrador Retriever uh chest 1:20:57.479 --> 1:21:01.760 Peak Bay Retriever. When those dogs are used, they're retrieving specialists, 1:21:01.800 --> 1:21:03.240 which is kind of funny. That doesn't pick up a 1:21:03.280 --> 1:21:05.679 duck usually pick up everything. He's kind of a whim. 1:21:06.080 --> 1:21:09.720 Well then that happens. There's no fixing that, right, Yeah, No, 1:21:09.920 --> 1:21:13.640 Usually maturity fixes that sometimes. Just didn't you ever know 1:21:13.800 --> 1:21:17.200 kids that like like my daughter Jesse, she didn't. She 1:21:17.280 --> 1:21:21.679 was real shy and now she's on news every other Sunday, 1:21:21.760 --> 1:21:24.200 you know, doing a cooking segment. She was real shy 1:21:24.240 --> 1:21:26.559 as a kid just took her a while to find 1:21:26.560 --> 1:21:28.320 her voice, and dogs can be the same way. Yeah, 1:21:28.320 --> 1:21:30.759 I mean he'll he'll pick up he picked up grouse 1:21:30.960 --> 1:21:34.559 and yeah it was new and he was like, yeah, 1:21:34.600 --> 1:21:38.960 I don't know, maybe I'm not even supposed to you know, right, 1:21:39.360 --> 1:21:40.840 you know, if the first thing you shot form was 1:21:40.880 --> 1:21:43.439 a duckling out of season, he might be good duck. Right. 1:21:44.040 --> 1:21:46.840 So those dogs don't point, so therefore they're not in 1:21:46.920 --> 1:21:50.600 the I don't judge Springer Spans with you. Yeah. Um, 1:21:50.640 --> 1:21:52.600 But as far as training the dog, it's all the 1:21:52.600 --> 1:21:56.880 same training. You know, the you just know in the process, 1:21:56.880 --> 1:21:59.400 like Brodie's job is to make sure that dog stays 1:21:59.400 --> 1:22:02.960 within shot on range, and the dog's natural range should 1:22:02.960 --> 1:22:06.400 be more cooperative, it should be more around you anyway. 1:22:07.280 --> 1:22:09.840 And with the pointing dogs, you have to work on 1:22:09.880 --> 1:22:12.240 the steadiness of the point because of a pointing dog 1:22:12.320 --> 1:22:14.680 will find a bird and after a while he just 1:22:15.120 --> 1:22:18.000 he just he just can't handle it and he's gonna 1:22:18.240 --> 1:22:20.200 and if he gets into that bird before you get there, 1:22:20.760 --> 1:22:23.640 which could be to yards away, especially in the Dakotas 1:22:23.960 --> 1:22:26.080 or why hunting North Dakota, you can see a dog 1:22:26.120 --> 1:22:29.120 on point three hundred yards away. Well, if he can't 1:22:29.160 --> 1:22:32.439 hold his ship together, you're not get any birds. You know, 1:22:32.800 --> 1:22:37.799 break breaks point exactly. So that's like our curses working 1:22:37.840 --> 1:22:40.840 at steadiness, and in a flushing dog, it's keeping that 1:22:40.880 --> 1:22:45.120 dog within let's say yards, You don't and they you know, 1:22:45.200 --> 1:22:49.080 you want him quartering back, which he does. What they 1:22:49.120 --> 1:22:52.880 do nice and is you always think, why are the 1:22:52.880 --> 1:22:55.360 birds always out there where my pointing dogs found him? 1:22:55.439 --> 1:22:57.760 Well they're also birds you're walking by. Because your dogs 1:22:57.800 --> 1:22:59.599 are already two hundred yards away from you. You You can't 1:22:59.640 --> 1:23:02.519 smell it on the ground. The flushing dog kind of 1:23:02.720 --> 1:23:06.439 vacuums like everywhere you're walking. So a lot of people, 1:23:06.800 --> 1:23:09.720 it's very popular, will hunt with a flushing dog and 1:23:09.760 --> 1:23:12.799 a pointing dog. Oh yeah, Now the training comes into 1:23:12.920 --> 1:23:15.280 like when the when the two lines meet. But a 1:23:15.320 --> 1:23:16.840 lot of times that pointer could just be out there 1:23:16.880 --> 1:23:18.639 on the horizon or out there in the field hunting, 1:23:18.880 --> 1:23:21.320 and your flusher could be walking along a fence line 1:23:21.360 --> 1:23:23.040 with you and boom, take something right out of there. 1:23:23.320 --> 1:23:24.920 You probably roll your eyes and people tall you this 1:23:24.920 --> 1:23:27.439 because I bet you everybody tells you this. But when 1:23:27.439 --> 1:23:29.080 you knew our dog, we had a really good dog, 1:23:29.120 --> 1:23:31.320 like a really good flushing dog growing up. Yeah, you 1:23:31.360 --> 1:23:34.639 had that white lab. Yeah she was great for rough grouse. 1:23:34.680 --> 1:23:36.160 But the only that made her good for rough grouse 1:23:36.360 --> 1:23:39.400 she didn't go far away, right she was, so she 1:23:39.439 --> 1:23:42.120 would run. She flushed birds. I don't know when she 1:23:42.200 --> 1:23:45.360 was flushing birds, but she'd just be like busybody and 1:23:45.520 --> 1:23:47.920 within twenty yards you no matter where you went, and 1:23:48.320 --> 1:23:50.439 inadvertently kick stuff up. And it was very good at 1:23:50.439 --> 1:23:53.240 finding it, yea. So it wasn't that it's goodness was 1:23:53.280 --> 1:23:56.439 only that it liked to smell around and didn't go away. 1:23:57.000 --> 1:23:58.360 And if there was a thicket that you didn't want 1:23:58.360 --> 1:23:59.960 to go into and you waited for a minute, she'd 1:24:00.000 --> 1:24:01.640 eventually get bored and going there and look around and 1:24:02.080 --> 1:24:04.400 something comes busting out. Yeah, And like when you like 1:24:04.439 --> 1:24:07.439 grouse hunting by our house, Like if a grouse is 1:24:07.479 --> 1:24:10.640 on the ground and you just start walking by, like 1:24:10.720 --> 1:24:13.759 that grouse's job is to sit. Like when he flies, 1:24:13.760 --> 1:24:16.760 he's gonna get taken by a hawk, right Statistically, that's 1:24:16.760 --> 1:24:19.240 how they're going to die the most. So his job 1:24:19.320 --> 1:24:20.880 is to sit. So if you're walking through the woods 1:24:20.920 --> 1:24:23.400 with your brothers and you're talking the girls is like 1:24:23.640 --> 1:24:25.360 they don't know, they don't know I'm here. But now 1:24:25.400 --> 1:24:28.000 you throw this other thing that's like, what, what's that 1:24:28.080 --> 1:24:30.280 a erratic footstep? Why? Why am I hearing footsteps over here? 1:24:30.280 --> 1:24:32.160 Why am I hearing footsteps? And then that kind of 1:24:32.240 --> 1:24:34.640 unnerves the grouse and girls like I can handle three 1:24:34.720 --> 1:24:37.679 kids walking by me. But whatever that, you know, whatever 1:24:37.720 --> 1:24:40.040 that which is more like a coyote or a bobcat, 1:24:40.080 --> 1:24:41.800 you know that's of course they don't hunt like a 1:24:41.840 --> 1:24:45.000 dog does. But um so that yeah, yeah, duchess would 1:24:45.040 --> 1:24:47.639 be a real helpful again with the range though, if 1:24:47.680 --> 1:24:52.000 she did that fifty yards from you, you'll be hot. 1:24:52.760 --> 1:24:56.599 If people want to hunt a flusher and a pointer, 1:24:56.840 --> 1:25:00.120 how come nobody's just breeding two of them together and 1:25:00.200 --> 1:25:03.160 coming out with the best of both worlds. You know, 1:25:04.160 --> 1:25:06.880 a lot of money right there. Business point. You know, 1:25:06.880 --> 1:25:08.840 I got a little English cocker spaniel right now, and 1:25:08.840 --> 1:25:10.560 I could breathe that with one of my broccles and 1:25:10.600 --> 1:25:12.639 see what happens. But I'm not thinking that would work 1:25:13.080 --> 1:25:17.240 because whatever whatever instincts gonna if the pointing instinct comes 1:25:17.240 --> 1:25:19.599 through in the dog, it's always going to point, at 1:25:19.680 --> 1:25:23.800 least initially. And then if you were looking for that 1:25:23.840 --> 1:25:26.800 dog to just flush, and he kept the ranginus of 1:25:26.840 --> 1:25:30.280 the pointing dog. Well, then you're back out to unshootable birds. 1:25:31.000 --> 1:25:33.880 But it is real popular to hunt with a like 1:25:33.920 --> 1:25:38.080 a lab or cocker or springer um while you've got 1:25:38.200 --> 1:25:41.000 a pointing dog running out, you know, yeah, and there's 1:25:41.000 --> 1:25:44.120 a whole thing with like one the flushing dog honoring 1:25:44.160 --> 1:25:47.200 the pointer or vice. That's where the real high level trade. 1:25:48.760 --> 1:25:50.960 Like you tell the one dog, if you see him point, 1:25:51.120 --> 1:25:53.479 don't go in there and screwing it up right right, 1:25:53.560 --> 1:25:55.559 So if you would, if you saw your dog point, 1:25:55.680 --> 1:25:59.280 you would call your your flushing dog to heal you go. 1:26:00.040 --> 1:26:01.439 He'd come right back to your legs. You don't want 1:26:01.479 --> 1:26:03.200 to blow it. You don't want him to blow it. Right, 1:26:03.320 --> 1:26:05.360 But if you get close enough, now, if you're worth 1:26:05.400 --> 1:26:07.880 in ten yards of your dog and you know there's 1:26:07.880 --> 1:26:10.240 something there because you get to know your dog's points, 1:26:10.280 --> 1:26:12.559 all of a sudden, the tail gets loose or the 1:26:12.600 --> 1:26:14.840 body gets loose, or he might kind of look over 1:26:14.880 --> 1:26:16.720 his head and see if you're coming. That usually means 1:26:16.720 --> 1:26:19.559 the bird's gone or the birds starting to move. But 1:26:19.640 --> 1:26:21.760 his training is like I'm not allowed to move until 1:26:21.800 --> 1:26:24.559 my boss gets here. So what you don't want is 1:26:24.560 --> 1:26:27.960 that little flushing dog running in on a pointing dog 1:26:28.200 --> 1:26:30.880 when you don't know the situation yet. But when you 1:26:30.920 --> 1:26:33.760 get to say, let's say ten yards, let the little 1:26:33.760 --> 1:26:36.960 flusher go. But now the pointing dog can get mad 1:26:37.280 --> 1:26:41.080 because that's his bird. So you've gotta have it's it's 1:26:41.080 --> 1:26:44.439 a struggle are there with these high test, well trained dogs. 1:26:44.479 --> 1:26:47.760 Do you ever see anybody that gets that. They're able 1:26:47.800 --> 1:26:50.040 to go in and hunt woodcock and real dense cover 1:26:51.000 --> 1:26:54.080 and they whatever. Then the dogs like the pointer is, 1:26:54.280 --> 1:26:57.000 I'm only gonna work thirty yards, I'll still point. I'm 1:26:57.040 --> 1:26:59.040 working close. I've seen. But then you're going to open 1:26:59.080 --> 1:27:01.800 cover and the dog you're able to communicate to the dog, 1:27:01.880 --> 1:27:04.160 and then all he's he's out seventy eight yards looking 1:27:04.160 --> 1:27:06.200 for a pheasant out and open cover. It can can 1:27:06.360 --> 1:27:08.000 is it? Or is it one or the other? No, no, 1:27:08.240 --> 1:27:10.880 it should be both. In fact, in the NAVSA rules 1:27:11.400 --> 1:27:13.800 we don't implement it as much as we used to. 1:27:14.439 --> 1:27:16.360 But what we would do, Let's say if we rented 1:27:16.479 --> 1:27:18.680 uh a forty acre or we had a lease on 1:27:18.720 --> 1:27:20.960 a forty year eighty acre hay field to use for 1:27:21.160 --> 1:27:23.519 the field and if there was an adjoining wood lot. 1:27:23.920 --> 1:27:27.880 So in our old rules were take the dog now 1:27:27.920 --> 1:27:31.200 that's hunting this field, Take the dog into the wood lot, 1:27:31.240 --> 1:27:33.840 and you should see the dog's range tighten up. So 1:27:33.880 --> 1:27:37.080 that's an expectation that is an expectation doesn't always come, 1:27:37.600 --> 1:27:41.479 but it's an expectation, you know. And and honestly, I 1:27:41.520 --> 1:27:43.320 can't remember more than a half a dozen tests where 1:27:43.360 --> 1:27:44.720 I'm like, I don't worry, we got a little piece 1:27:44.760 --> 1:27:46.200 of woods, will walk through the woods to get to 1:27:46.200 --> 1:27:49.080 the next field, and I will make a note like 1:27:49.680 --> 1:27:51.200 that dog just wanted to get to the next field. 1:27:51.520 --> 1:27:52.920 Like and if there was a grouse sitting on the 1:27:52.960 --> 1:27:54.559 side of this wood lot, we weren't going to find it, 1:27:54.640 --> 1:27:57.200 you know. But it's something that we don't really set 1:27:57.280 --> 1:27:58.960 up for the test, but it is in our kind 1:27:58.960 --> 1:28:01.680 of our judge's hand. It's something we can do if 1:28:01.720 --> 1:28:07.200 we opt to explain. Um, we we're talking last night 1:28:07.200 --> 1:28:09.000 as well, and you were talking about a thing that 1:28:10.640 --> 1:28:13.720 that that you guys trained dogs to do that is 1:28:13.760 --> 1:28:18.040 just completely This has not like like residential house dog owners, 1:28:18.439 --> 1:28:21.640 this is not on their radar. But but the what 1:28:21.680 --> 1:28:24.519 do you call it where they get up on the block. Oh, 1:28:24.600 --> 1:28:28.080 I was talking about the program. My my friend justin 1:28:28.120 --> 1:28:29.960 to no no, yeah, but yeah, we'll talk to explain 1:28:30.000 --> 1:28:32.000 the program, but explain like what that's called, Like it's 1:28:32.000 --> 1:28:33.720 just part of the it's part of you guys take 1:28:33.760 --> 1:28:35.400 it as a matter of course that of course you 1:28:35.439 --> 1:28:38.080 can hunting dogs should do this. But you were talking 1:28:38.120 --> 1:28:41.120 about I don't know why any dog owner wouldn't want 1:28:41.160 --> 1:28:44.080 to establish this capability. It makes sense. Yeah, Well, we 1:28:44.200 --> 1:28:45.920 referred to it as a calming touch. So when a 1:28:46.200 --> 1:28:49.840 when a puppy is young, um, when you're real young, 1:28:50.120 --> 1:28:51.960 it's a matter of maybe putting them on your lap 1:28:52.400 --> 1:28:55.439 and fiddling with their paws and fiddling with their ears. 1:28:55.680 --> 1:28:57.479 Most puppies turn them on their back and they're like, 1:28:58.400 --> 1:29:00.599 you know, they don't want to be under back, So 1:29:00.640 --> 1:29:02.400 you do the best. No matter how nice the dog is, 1:29:02.439 --> 1:29:05.280 the bets got to wrestle it right, right, there's those dogs. 1:29:05.320 --> 1:29:07.439 So what we would do is, let's say, once you 1:29:07.479 --> 1:29:09.960 get this dog home and he's let's say, twelve weeks old, 1:29:10.000 --> 1:29:12.320 and he's you kind of gotta wait till they show 1:29:12.320 --> 1:29:14.120 you a little teenager nos in them. You know, if 1:29:14.120 --> 1:29:16.720 they're just walking around a little dopey. I mean, there's 1:29:16.760 --> 1:29:19.240 not much resistance. But what would do is take this 1:29:19.320 --> 1:29:22.400 dog up onto an elevated platform, whether it's your picnic table, 1:29:22.439 --> 1:29:24.880 a tailgate. And yeah, but you have in your in 1:29:24.920 --> 1:29:28.960 your shop, you have actual training table. The ramp right, 1:29:29.040 --> 1:29:31.760 and that's used for a whole lot of stuff. So 1:29:31.800 --> 1:29:35.360 I just happened to use the ramp and the table um. 1:29:35.479 --> 1:29:37.320 But for a person, let's say when you got your 1:29:37.320 --> 1:29:39.479 dog home. Now, yours was four months old when you 1:29:39.520 --> 1:29:41.400 got it. You don't know the history of it. But 1:29:41.560 --> 1:29:43.559 let's say it was eight weeks from a breeder or 1:29:43.840 --> 1:29:46.680 a farmer had an accidental litter. If you were to 1:29:46.720 --> 1:29:49.400 take that dog and in a show where they call 1:29:49.479 --> 1:29:52.200 stacking it, we call it a calming touch. You get 1:29:52.200 --> 1:29:54.519 it to sit up there, and you've got a short leash, 1:29:54.600 --> 1:29:56.080 or you kind of hold it by the leash, you know, 1:29:56.120 --> 1:29:58.280 hold it by its collar. You take your other hand 1:29:58.280 --> 1:30:00.360 and you run it down its back and up its 1:30:00.360 --> 1:30:02.200 tail and down its legs. You'll see a lot of 1:30:02.200 --> 1:30:04.160 dogs you you go to grab their lower leg and 1:30:04.200 --> 1:30:06.280 they pull their leg up, and they pull their leg up. Well, 1:30:06.320 --> 1:30:09.800 there's ways to offset that, like if they if you're 1:30:09.800 --> 1:30:11.320 having trouble letting them. They just don't want you to 1:30:11.320 --> 1:30:13.439 touch their back left leg for some reason. You reach 1:30:13.439 --> 1:30:16.120 around and you take to the right back leg. You 1:30:16.120 --> 1:30:18.800 start putting pressure on that while you're it's almost like 1:30:18.840 --> 1:30:21.479 you're milking a cow. You grab their right rear leg 1:30:21.640 --> 1:30:23.160 and all of a sudden they put their left one down, 1:30:23.800 --> 1:30:26.920 and uh, they're like, they're like basically trusting you to 1:30:26.960 --> 1:30:30.160 give them a physical exam because you can't. You can't 1:30:30.200 --> 1:30:31.880 ask a dog do you get any ticks on you today? 1:30:32.600 --> 1:30:34.840 You can't ask a dog give a toothache. You can't 1:30:34.840 --> 1:30:37.240 ask your dog do you have a ear infection? So 1:30:37.280 --> 1:30:40.040 you want your dog to be able to your hands 1:30:40.040 --> 1:30:43.960 should be able to literally, uh, stroke the tail, stroke 1:30:44.040 --> 1:30:46.880 the legs open, the lips up, pick his ears up, 1:30:47.120 --> 1:30:49.880 pick his lips up, count his teeth while he's standing there, 1:30:49.920 --> 1:30:52.320 while he's standing there. Now, that doesn't happen in one course, 1:30:52.600 --> 1:30:55.559 but it's something that like all people would benefit when 1:30:55.600 --> 1:30:58.760 they bring home a new dog. You know, uh, well, 1:30:58.800 --> 1:31:03.360 my brother is training llamas, like breaking and training llamas. 1:31:04.800 --> 1:31:06.479 After you get to the point where you can just 1:31:06.600 --> 1:31:08.439 you know, they're very like they're not like a horse. 1:31:08.479 --> 1:31:10.519 They never become your friend. I'm sure someone will be like, oh, 1:31:10.520 --> 1:31:12.280 my lot was my best friend. But I mean generally 1:31:12.320 --> 1:31:15.000 they're they're not. They don't need that. They don't have 1:31:15.080 --> 1:31:17.400 that deep connection where they were. A lot of horses 1:31:17.439 --> 1:31:21.400 really seem to like appreciate a human presence like they're 1:31:21.400 --> 1:31:23.639 just they're a little more they're a little more wild. 1:31:23.680 --> 1:31:27.320 It's safe to say. They're Yeah, they're they're not quite there. Um, 1:31:27.360 --> 1:31:29.479 a thing is working to the point. It's just funny 1:31:29.479 --> 1:31:31.120 you mentioned the feet. A thing is working to the 1:31:31.120 --> 1:31:35.920 point where you can handle his feet right, and it 1:31:35.960 --> 1:31:38.280 takes a lot. It takes a lot to get there 1:31:38.280 --> 1:31:40.880 where you're gonna approach it and touch its foot because 1:31:41.080 --> 1:31:43.360 it's like a sign of like, okay, we've gotten somewhere 1:31:43.439 --> 1:31:47.880 that I can touch. And it's really all it is 1:31:47.880 --> 1:31:50.000 is let the dogs just gotta you know, get his 1:31:50.040 --> 1:31:52.360 composure and be like, okay, this is this will be 1:31:52.400 --> 1:31:54.800 over in a minute. And then after a while the 1:31:54.880 --> 1:31:57.759 dog really likes it. And you know what dog doesn't 1:31:57.760 --> 1:31:59.679 like to be competitive? Whose dog comes up and said, 1:31:59.760 --> 1:32:02.080 keep pet he keeps knocking your arm up. That same 1:32:02.120 --> 1:32:03.640 dog if I stuck him up on a cooler in 1:32:03.640 --> 1:32:05.200 your backyard and I want to start looking at his 1:32:05.240 --> 1:32:07.920 back legs. He probably yeah, away from my back legs. 1:32:08.000 --> 1:32:11.639 So even in our in our testing, during a utility 1:32:11.680 --> 1:32:14.320 test or natural ability test, when a dog comes out 1:32:14.320 --> 1:32:16.960 of the water, we feel their coat, We count their teeth, 1:32:17.520 --> 1:32:19.000 and we look at their eyes set to make sure 1:32:19.040 --> 1:32:22.720 they don't have like tropical and tropic eyelids. And we 1:32:22.880 --> 1:32:26.200 for males, we also check for testicles to make sure 1:32:26.240 --> 1:32:29.800 they don't are not mon orchid or missing testicles, both 1:32:29.840 --> 1:32:33.120 of them. And that goes into our notes. And that way, 1:32:33.120 --> 1:32:36.240 when somebody reads about a dog that they had sold 1:32:36.280 --> 1:32:39.360 to California, they're like, oh good, that puppy came out 1:32:39.400 --> 1:32:43.880 with odds teeth, two testicles, and a harsh coat. And 1:32:43.880 --> 1:32:46.960 and we get that on test day, like this dog, 1:32:47.600 --> 1:32:49.280 it won't let us look at its mouth. I mean, 1:32:49.320 --> 1:32:52.920 it's absolutely like a kid of a temper tantrum. You know, 1:32:53.000 --> 1:32:55.280 you can get bit actually if you if you're not careful, 1:32:55.280 --> 1:32:57.720 and that'll count against that dog. It won't count against it. 1:32:57.760 --> 1:32:59.720 But if we can't get the tooth, let's say, we 1:32:59.760 --> 1:33:02.760 can't get the tooth exam done. No matter what, the 1:33:02.800 --> 1:33:06.080 dogs just ain't doing it ain't doing it. Then we'll 1:33:06.120 --> 1:33:07.960 put a note on the car and we'll come into 1:33:08.080 --> 1:33:11.080 you know, when the magazine scores are posted, it'll say 1:33:11.600 --> 1:33:16.040 tooth exam, um, dog too sensitive for tooth exam. Uh right, 1:33:16.320 --> 1:33:17.960 But that also tells you, as you're buying a dog 1:33:18.040 --> 1:33:20.600 later on, like, well, that's rare. It's rare that we 1:33:20.640 --> 1:33:23.800 can't look in the dog's mouth. It's it's rare. It's 1:33:24.040 --> 1:33:25.800 it's a little bit of a rodeo while you're doing 1:33:25.800 --> 1:33:28.160 it sometimes. But I can always tell the people who 1:33:28.240 --> 1:33:30.800 did this calming touch their dog because dogs just stand 1:33:30.840 --> 1:33:35.040 there like just like a dentist. It's like, it's like, 1:33:35.120 --> 1:33:37.160 let what's I mean. I haven't been to the dentist 1:33:37.240 --> 1:33:38.479 with a kid in a long time. But what was 1:33:38.520 --> 1:33:41.080 your your kid's first dentist deployment? Oh, they're a little 1:33:41.120 --> 1:33:44.400 freaked out by the littlest one, right. He had to 1:33:44.439 --> 1:33:48.320 go home with no toy because and come back a 1:33:48.400 --> 1:33:50.519 couple of days later. But only they happened his brother 1:33:50.560 --> 1:33:52.320 and sister got the toys and it burned him up 1:33:52.360 --> 1:33:54.160 so bad. A couple days later he got all picked up, 1:33:54.240 --> 1:33:55.680 went back in there and got taken care of. But 1:33:55.760 --> 1:33:57.559 picture if you'd have took here. He had had stitches 1:33:57.600 --> 1:33:59.559 a few times, so he didn't like he the minute 1:33:59.560 --> 1:34:01.720 he got an He's like, no, I bet you even 1:34:01.760 --> 1:34:04.080 smells like an asept because like, I know what goes 1:34:04.120 --> 1:34:06.639 on here. We're gonna start selling something in my head. Right. 1:34:07.080 --> 1:34:09.439 But picture if you had a kid and you prepared 1:34:09.520 --> 1:34:11.679 this kid from a baby, like no, no, no, stop. 1:34:11.760 --> 1:34:14.280 Once they understand, like no, mom and dad just gonna 1:34:14.280 --> 1:34:17.000 look to see if that little if you did that 1:34:17.040 --> 1:34:18.280 over and over again, then you put him in a 1:34:18.360 --> 1:34:21.160 dentist chair. He's like, yeah, hey, my mom does that. 1:34:21.840 --> 1:34:23.920 It's it's such a simple thing to do with a dog. 1:34:24.040 --> 1:34:26.360 Should you be would they should it be that? Um 1:34:26.400 --> 1:34:29.040 like in your mind, if it's properly trained, should it 1:34:29.080 --> 1:34:31.280 be that you could that it could have it could 1:34:31.280 --> 1:34:33.920 be limping because it's got a cactus thorn and its paw. 1:34:34.439 --> 1:34:37.360 It should stand out there and let you pull that. Yeah, 1:34:37.439 --> 1:34:39.759 and the one guy like have your body like restrain 1:34:39.880 --> 1:34:43.000 it and tape It's joshut happens a lot. Remember I 1:34:43.040 --> 1:34:45.479 sent you the picture that wooden doll that you're strapping 1:34:45.520 --> 1:34:48.879 the dog's mouth to get porcupine quills. I've taken porcupine 1:34:48.920 --> 1:34:51.719 quills out of Bravo's mouth. He mouthed when he didn't 1:34:51.800 --> 1:34:54.280 kill it, and I just said sit and I just 1:34:54.360 --> 1:34:56.839 grabbed his big old lips and I got my leatherman 1:34:56.880 --> 1:35:01.439 out and started pulling. He just like, okay, a big deal, really, 1:35:02.280 --> 1:35:04.200 but other dogs you get bit oh that that had 1:35:04.280 --> 1:35:06.160 my brother's dog and they had it was like a 1:35:06.200 --> 1:35:12.200 group effort. I couldn't. I couldn't trim my my about 1:35:12.200 --> 1:35:14.559 like nail trimming, like Karen, can you trim your dog's nails? 1:35:14.640 --> 1:35:16.400 Or do you bring it to a place I do? 1:35:16.479 --> 1:35:18.559 I do everything on my own. And how how's your 1:35:18.600 --> 1:35:20.800 dog do with it? Great? I mean that That's what 1:35:20.800 --> 1:35:22.559 I was going to ask you. Is the takeaway for 1:35:23.240 --> 1:35:25.880 you know, everybody, the one yeah, exactly for everyone, the 1:35:25.920 --> 1:35:29.920 one thing because I, um, you know, I got a Newfoundland. 1:35:29.920 --> 1:35:32.720 This is like moved Montana. Always wanted a dog, so 1:35:32.760 --> 1:35:36.400 I just like went for the biggest freaking dog exactly 1:35:37.439 --> 1:35:41.080 exactly as much as I do. Um. But the one thing, 1:35:41.560 --> 1:35:44.200 you know, I was like getting obsessed with reading training 1:35:44.240 --> 1:35:47.839 books and watching videos online. The one thing that seemed 1:35:47.880 --> 1:35:51.759 to make the most sense to me, which wasn't exactly 1:35:51.760 --> 1:35:54.880 a training technique, but seems to be training is to 1:35:54.880 --> 1:35:59.320 touch that animal everywhere all the time. So I would 1:35:59.320 --> 1:36:02.519 stick my fingers in his mouth. I would, you know, 1:36:03.080 --> 1:36:06.360 touch its ears everything. You can literally take his ears 1:36:06.400 --> 1:36:08.240 and put a bowl in it if you wanted to. Yeah, yeah, 1:36:08.280 --> 1:36:10.840 I mean I give him hairstyles and I actually have 1:36:11.160 --> 1:36:14.880 tied his ears together, get like a little ponytail. Um. 1:36:14.920 --> 1:36:18.559 It's terrible. But it comes to clipping nails now, people 1:36:18.640 --> 1:36:21.320 have to go pay, you know, a groomer to do 1:36:21.479 --> 1:36:23.960 to trimm the dog's nails because the dog just freaks 1:36:24.120 --> 1:36:28.600 out because you're trimming its nails. My dog has to 1:36:28.600 --> 1:36:32.320 be put under. That's how bad it is. Phil. We 1:36:32.360 --> 1:36:35.040 took her somewhere, they had her muzzled and strapped, and 1:36:35.080 --> 1:36:37.000 they still couldn't do it. So they actually gave her 1:36:37.040 --> 1:36:41.519 a we she was astray on the Fort Peck Reservation. 1:36:41.560 --> 1:36:43.120 We don't know what her life was like before we 1:36:43.160 --> 1:36:45.840 adopted her, and so but like you can't go near 1:36:45.880 --> 1:36:51.840 her pause nothing. She's terrified. Yeah. Well, you know what's 1:36:51.960 --> 1:36:53.599 saddest thing they had to meet. One of the saddest 1:36:53.600 --> 1:36:55.960 things ever happened to me is uh, hang you left 1:36:55.960 --> 1:36:59.240 t l I that was sad. Remember remember and Miles 1:36:59.240 --> 1:37:00.920 Sab used to hang out out with that old guy 1:37:00.960 --> 1:37:04.280 West Monsel. He was in his nineties and his wife 1:37:04.280 --> 1:37:06.080 passed away, and me and him were out messing around, 1:37:06.240 --> 1:37:09.640 driving to try to find some mushrooms one time, and 1:37:09.680 --> 1:37:11.680 he was he was eighty seven at the time, or 1:37:11.720 --> 1:37:13.880 maybe he just turned he's I think he's eighty seven, 1:37:14.720 --> 1:37:16.280 and we get we we stayed out longer, and we 1:37:16.320 --> 1:37:18.680 were playing out and staying out and and uh, he 1:37:18.720 --> 1:37:22.120 wanted me to drive and drop him off at the doctor. Okay, 1:37:22.320 --> 1:37:23.639 So now I was kind of weird, like, oh, what's 1:37:23.640 --> 1:37:25.720 going on while he's got a doctor, you know? So 1:37:25.760 --> 1:37:27.000 I dropped off and he goes in there for a 1:37:27.000 --> 1:37:29.200 while and I just mess around wait from to come out. 1:37:29.640 --> 1:37:31.559 And we're driving home. I was like, what's what's going 1:37:31.600 --> 1:37:33.040 on at the doctor there? And he goes, I had 1:37:33.080 --> 1:37:35.960 to get my ton ails cut because my wife had 1:37:35.960 --> 1:37:39.240 always cut my tones. I can't reach down there, so 1:37:39.280 --> 1:37:40.960 you had to make an appointment at the doctor. I said, 1:37:40.960 --> 1:37:42.519 I cut your damn you know, he never had me 1:37:42.560 --> 1:37:43.800 do it. I was like, I'll cut your tonils. I 1:37:43.800 --> 1:37:46.479 don't care going to the doctor to cut your tonils. 1:37:47.160 --> 1:37:51.240 Just beat alone and old man. Yeah, get a loving 1:37:51.280 --> 1:37:55.120 family and everything, but just maybe sad, ye to make 1:37:55.160 --> 1:37:57.640 you sad. Hearing about that, it kind of creeped me 1:37:57.640 --> 1:38:01.960 out a little bit actually, because because now you're thinking, 1:38:01.960 --> 1:38:03.679 I'm thinking, like you know that book I was trying 1:38:03.680 --> 1:38:05.920 to write, real men don't wear short socks or crocs, 1:38:05.920 --> 1:38:08.879 and real men don't, you know, go to get a pedicure. 1:38:08.920 --> 1:38:10.840 And now I know guys that actually go get pedicures. 1:38:10.920 --> 1:38:12.880 It's not that he wasn't going to get a pedicure. 1:38:12.920 --> 1:38:15.120 He's going to a doctor to have his tone nails cut. Well, 1:38:15.120 --> 1:38:16.719 you know, he could have went to a pedicure place. 1:38:17.960 --> 1:38:19.400 He's probably not. He probably doesn't want to be that 1:38:19.520 --> 1:38:22.080 kind of guy. Or let's go, let's get back to dogs. Yeah, yeah, 1:38:22.120 --> 1:38:26.040 I'll just feel sad about my friend by myself. Tell 1:38:26.080 --> 1:38:30.040 everybody about the Upland Institute project, okay, which we kind 1:38:30.040 --> 1:38:32.280 of been talking about without talking about it, right, right. 1:38:32.320 --> 1:38:36.320 So I have a very good friend that's a really 1:38:36.320 --> 1:38:39.840 well known dog trainer in West Michigan. I've known him 1:38:40.040 --> 1:38:42.599 off and on since he was really young, and uh, 1:38:42.760 --> 1:38:46.040 he's been training dogs for thirty years. Him and I 1:38:46.120 --> 1:38:48.280 kind of reconnected when he moved close to me and 1:38:48.800 --> 1:38:51.479 with me being a judge and seeing all the different 1:38:51.479 --> 1:38:54.640 things that our training related issues during a test, like 1:38:54.680 --> 1:38:57.439 our upper level tests are a lot of obedience. Our 1:38:57.479 --> 1:39:00.439 puppy test is a lot of just natural natural mo ability. 1:39:00.600 --> 1:39:06.200 What do you what do you roll under? Obedience, steadiness, retrieving, healing, waiting, 1:39:06.400 --> 1:39:08.400 you know, waiting when we go do shots away from 1:39:08.400 --> 1:39:12.160 the dog. Everything in that test there's a there's obedience 1:39:12.400 --> 1:39:15.040 portions of it like come on called falls in death, sure, 1:39:15.640 --> 1:39:20.799 primary will be right stay whoa um? So we're always 1:39:20.800 --> 1:39:23.400 sitting there kicking things back and forth about like oh 1:39:23.479 --> 1:39:25.559 I saw and he says, well, yeah, that's probably because 1:39:25.600 --> 1:39:28.240 the person didn't do this before they did that. And 1:39:28.360 --> 1:39:30.320 I think back on my testing career, which I don't 1:39:30.320 --> 1:39:33.559 test my dogs very often, but as a requirement, you 1:39:33.600 --> 1:39:36.040 are required as a judge to test your dog every 1:39:36.080 --> 1:39:38.080 so often because they want to put you on that 1:39:38.120 --> 1:39:40.120 side of the fence. So you don't. You're just not 1:39:40.200 --> 1:39:42.200 to judge your whole life. You gotta go there and 1:39:42.200 --> 1:39:45.400 go like me and my dog are here. Guys, Guys, 1:39:45.439 --> 1:39:47.800 remember I might be watching you next year. You know. 1:39:49.600 --> 1:39:51.519 Hell man, you should have seen me my last test. 1:39:51.600 --> 1:39:54.519 I was actually told that I was no longer a 1:39:54.600 --> 1:39:57.519 judge last January or no two januaryes ago. I said. 1:39:57.720 --> 1:39:59.559 Made they go, well, you went over your grace here. 1:39:59.560 --> 1:40:01.719 I'm like, oh, I didn't like. Yeah, we keep pretty 1:40:01.760 --> 1:40:04.160 good records. And I had to get a test lined 1:40:04.240 --> 1:40:07.320 up and I did, and it was bravo that big 1:40:07.360 --> 1:40:09.960 dog I have with a long tail, that big big broco. 1:40:11.200 --> 1:40:14.280 And we're not as in the test. But as a judge, 1:40:14.280 --> 1:40:17.360 I'm like, yeah, we're we're okay. I would be so 1:40:17.479 --> 1:40:19.840 unnerved in that environment. Man, we're not going to get 1:40:19.880 --> 1:40:22.439 all fours today. We have a zero to four. But 1:40:22.479 --> 1:40:24.639 I said, I got twos and threes in the right spot. 1:40:24.640 --> 1:40:28.040 We're okay. Last part of the test, last part of tests, 1:40:28.040 --> 1:40:31.120 the easiest part. They launched a duck with a launcher, 1:40:31.200 --> 1:40:33.960 like a big giant sling shot. They launched this duck 1:40:34.000 --> 1:40:38.559 across a duck, a duck, expired duck, dead duck, out 1:40:38.600 --> 1:40:41.519 of a launcher a giant sling shot. Huh. It's like 1:40:42.000 --> 1:40:44.120 it's like a four foot sling someone saves the duck 1:40:44.200 --> 1:40:45.960 from when we save it from other things, or we 1:40:46.000 --> 1:40:49.840 buy ducks like that. But anyway, every dog loves this. 1:40:50.280 --> 1:40:52.360 The dog. You know the birds up in the sky. 1:40:52.760 --> 1:40:55.080 You shoot the blank gun in the air to simulate 1:40:55.160 --> 1:40:57.519 the shot, which is another part of obedience. He's not 1:40:57.520 --> 1:41:01.040 allowed to leave until the duck hits the water out um, 1:41:01.080 --> 1:41:03.599 and and then you send the dog. And I'm like, oh, 1:41:03.760 --> 1:41:06.200 we're gonna pass. I'm gonna be a judge again. And 1:41:06.360 --> 1:41:09.800 Bravo just stood there on the bank and looked at 1:41:09.840 --> 1:41:14.000 that duck and I'm like, fetch, fetch, pitch it up. 1:41:15.400 --> 1:41:18.559 He's not budging, he's not putting his toe in the water. 1:41:18.960 --> 1:41:21.960 And I'm like, this dog loves fetching out of the water. 1:41:22.160 --> 1:41:25.280 I take this dog goose and duck hunting right. He's like, 1:41:25.720 --> 1:41:27.880 ain't doing it. And I'm like, what am I gonna do? 1:41:27.960 --> 1:41:30.000 So that you know the judges there and they all 1:41:30.040 --> 1:41:32.040 know me because you know, you make friends over the 1:41:32.120 --> 1:41:36.439 years and their dogs harshly. And I also know that 1:41:36.520 --> 1:41:38.960 to pass this portion, that dog has got to get 1:41:39.000 --> 1:41:43.240 that duck out of that water. All my pleading is 1:41:43.240 --> 1:41:46.040 going to bring my score down. But if I can 1:41:46.040 --> 1:41:49.559 get that duck to shore, I'll get a one. I'm 1:41:49.560 --> 1:41:55.240 pleading brings your score down, sure does? Oh yeah, here 1:41:55.320 --> 1:41:56.960 to make a way down if you can. So he 1:41:57.040 --> 1:41:59.840 just whisper plead. Well, yeah, I'm like I'm literally lit 1:42:00.080 --> 1:42:02.639 like I'm acting like I'm doing this on purpose. I'm 1:42:02.640 --> 1:42:05.599 stroking his back and like, good boy, fetch you, fetch 1:42:06.800 --> 1:42:09.439 I'm they're hearing good boy, good boy, and I'm gonna 1:42:09.439 --> 1:42:14.519 fetch you, fetch you and he's just like nope, nope, 1:42:14.720 --> 1:42:18.400 and they're like, what do you want to do it? 1:42:18.479 --> 1:42:21.320 So I have a you have an option? Do you 1:42:21.400 --> 1:42:24.439 not have an option to take a rock? Okay, now, 1:42:24.600 --> 1:42:27.200 I already know my score is down there, but if 1:42:27.240 --> 1:42:31.200 that duck comes back to Shore by his job, I'm 1:42:31.200 --> 1:42:35.040 gonna just like it in school, I'm gonna I'm gonna 1:42:35.200 --> 1:42:39.080 I'm gonna have low numbers and you're gonna let me 1:42:39.120 --> 1:42:42.400 graduate in high school even if I got to d mindus. Okay, 1:42:42.520 --> 1:42:46.040 it was just, you know, it was algebra. And finally, 1:42:46.080 --> 1:42:47.439 I don't know if it was the rock or what 1:42:47.479 --> 1:42:50.439 it was, but finally it was just like at that point, 1:42:50.479 --> 1:42:53.799 I'm going, really you Now, the judges like ron quitex 1:42:54.000 --> 1:42:56.280 so silly. I'm like I'm looking at Bravo and face like, really, 1:42:56.360 --> 1:42:58.080 you don't want me to be a judge again? You 1:42:58.400 --> 1:43:00.160 can't go out there and get that damn duck of me, 1:43:00.560 --> 1:43:02.559 and they're like, all right, rock calm down a little bit. 1:43:02.720 --> 1:43:04.160 I think I threw I can't remember if I threw 1:43:04.200 --> 1:43:07.600 a rocker. Finally, he just went, we're doing into the 1:43:07.640 --> 1:43:09.760 pond and swam out, got the duck, gave it to 1:43:09.920 --> 1:43:12.600 me like nothing. He just I don't know if he 1:43:12.680 --> 1:43:14.720 was messing with me. I don't know what he's doing, 1:43:15.479 --> 1:43:18.559 but yeah it was. He watched you, uh, demean all 1:43:18.560 --> 1:43:20.559 those other dogs, and he's like, you know what, body, 1:43:20.640 --> 1:43:23.439 and hear you ruin enough dogs days where I'm gonna 1:43:23.520 --> 1:43:25.519 ruin your I hear you all the time, what your 1:43:25.560 --> 1:43:28.000 friends talking about it. Watch Watch how I can make 1:43:28.040 --> 1:43:30.759 you nervous. I really thought, I'm like, oh my god, 1:43:31.000 --> 1:43:37.400 we are failing today. But anyway, project, Justin mcgrail and 1:43:37.479 --> 1:43:40.720 myself we started kicking around the idea of like what 1:43:40.840 --> 1:43:44.599 if I got a camera and kind of followed your 1:43:44.960 --> 1:43:48.760 process through a whole bunch of dogs. And it took 1:43:48.840 --> 1:43:50.800 us fifteen months to film it. We filmed it in 1:43:50.880 --> 1:43:55.320 four states because because Justin is a guy that um, 1:43:55.400 --> 1:43:58.280 he doesn't train dogs for testing. You know, he can 1:43:58.280 --> 1:44:00.000 do parts of it, but that's not he's he's trying 1:44:00.000 --> 1:44:01.920 and the dogs for a hunter wants to go wild 1:44:01.960 --> 1:44:04.799 bird hunting with your dog. So he literally takes strings 1:44:04.840 --> 1:44:09.400 of dogs to Kansas, runs them Montana before the season 1:44:09.479 --> 1:44:11.479 opens in August, same thing. Him and I went to 1:44:11.560 --> 1:44:14.320 North Dakota and filmed in August, and all that was 1:44:15.080 --> 1:44:17.760 reinforcing that yard training and that field training we did 1:44:17.840 --> 1:44:22.080 in Michigan. And we have real nice shots of like say, 1:44:22.200 --> 1:44:23.880 a bunch of sharp tails getting up and the dog 1:44:23.960 --> 1:44:25.519 just standing in the middle of the sharp tails just 1:44:26.360 --> 1:44:29.120 oh boy, you know, and he'll take a blank gun 1:44:29.160 --> 1:44:31.360 at that point and then he'll shoot the blank gun 1:44:31.439 --> 1:44:34.120 and dog stands through it. So that's the kind of 1:44:34.160 --> 1:44:39.840 style of training and his But but oh, it's very instructional. 1:44:39.920 --> 1:44:41.519 It in fact, it's not like look what the dog 1:44:41.600 --> 1:44:43.160 can do with the right training. It's like, how, here's 1:44:43.160 --> 1:44:46.360 how you do. And and we show examples like day one, 1:44:46.479 --> 1:44:48.479 like here's the dog the first time on a woe post. 1:44:49.120 --> 1:44:51.320 It's almost like the first time you try to train 1:44:51.400 --> 1:44:54.320 your dog trimmy dogs nails. He's jerking. He gets on 1:44:54.400 --> 1:44:56.680 this woe post, which is a solid steak like a 1:44:56.720 --> 1:44:59.599 horseshoe steak, and a little cable. First time he hits 1:44:59.600 --> 1:45:01.640 the end of well, he's bucking like a horse and 1:45:01.680 --> 1:45:06.320 he's he doesn't understand why, and you eventually when he doesn't, 1:45:06.720 --> 1:45:08.920 when he does give you what you want, which is 1:45:09.000 --> 1:45:11.680 him to just stand there, then you start overlaying a 1:45:11.760 --> 1:45:13.280 name to it, which in that case would be woe. 1:45:14.120 --> 1:45:16.360 It goes back like hell to you. Don't you don't 1:45:16.400 --> 1:45:18.080 start a dog. You don't teach a dog to heal 1:45:18.160 --> 1:45:20.439 with the word heal. You teach a dog to heal 1:45:20.800 --> 1:45:24.120 with motion and a leash. Once you see the compliance, 1:45:24.640 --> 1:45:28.760 then you give the command a name. And I watched him. 1:45:28.800 --> 1:45:31.439 He would come on my podcast about every six months, 1:45:31.880 --> 1:45:34.679 so I get listener questions and the way he breaks 1:45:34.760 --> 1:45:39.160 down a question, it's like always like number one downloaded episodes. 1:45:39.640 --> 1:45:42.240 They just love the way he even and it's hard to, 1:45:42.400 --> 1:45:44.759 you know, look at someone's dog from an email because 1:45:44.760 --> 1:45:46.360 you're not you're only getting what he said. My dog 1:45:46.439 --> 1:45:48.800 doesn't pick up the bird. Sometimes it does, and he's 1:45:48.880 --> 1:45:52.519 you know, he just breaks it down. And so we decided, Um, 1:45:53.360 --> 1:45:57.040 you know, I felt I was kind of confident from 1:45:57.640 --> 1:46:00.840 doing shows with you to watch the camera guy does, 1:46:00.920 --> 1:46:02.600 so I had I put myself in the job of 1:46:02.680 --> 1:46:06.680 the cameraman and followed him along for fifteen months, and 1:46:06.760 --> 1:46:09.840 I would we're really lucky that COVID hit so that 1:46:09.960 --> 1:46:11.680 shut my company down and I could go over to 1:46:11.760 --> 1:46:14.200 his kennel, I could go to Kansas, North Dakota. I 1:46:14.320 --> 1:46:17.240 had the whole year want to do whatever heck I 1:46:17.280 --> 1:46:20.719 wanted to and uh, and we were putting it together. 1:46:21.040 --> 1:46:23.400 It's it's an editing, it's an audio right now, and 1:46:23.479 --> 1:46:26.719 it's it's coming out hopefully by the time this errors, 1:46:27.040 --> 1:46:29.040 it should be out. And it's called the Upland Institute 1:46:29.080 --> 1:46:32.240 dot com or that's a website and what how's it 1:46:32.280 --> 1:46:34.000 going to function? Like if someone wants the material, what 1:46:34.040 --> 1:46:35.519 do they do to get the material? They would they 1:46:35.560 --> 1:46:39.160 would purchase the material. They there right now on the website. 1:46:39.240 --> 1:46:41.800 There's a trailer commercial that talks about it. And then 1:46:41.880 --> 1:46:45.799 there's in the beginning, we've got three three classes were offering. 1:46:46.479 --> 1:46:49.320 The one is called Foundation and Fundamentals. And that's when 1:46:49.320 --> 1:46:52.240 you were kind of talking about that you could do 1:46:52.320 --> 1:46:53.720 that with a lot of dogs. And that's what you're saying, 1:46:53.720 --> 1:46:57.559 any dog, dog, house dog, whatever, any dog would benefit 1:46:57.640 --> 1:47:00.320 because it's all that early stuff that expo. As you're 1:47:00.320 --> 1:47:03.719 putting the foundation blocks underneath it. It'll go a little 1:47:03.760 --> 1:47:07.120 bit further into introduction to birds and introduction to gunfire. 1:47:07.600 --> 1:47:12.479 But you know, in the beginning, like crate training, tie out, stake, calming, 1:47:12.560 --> 1:47:16.519 touch come one called early exploratory walks. Those are things 1:47:16.560 --> 1:47:18.880 that every dog should do with their owner. And people 1:47:19.160 --> 1:47:21.360 kind of get in this habit of like they treat 1:47:21.439 --> 1:47:24.320 that puppy like a little kid instead of like a dog, 1:47:25.160 --> 1:47:28.080 and they tend not to expose it to enough stuff. 1:47:28.120 --> 1:47:30.080 And then all of a sudden, the dogs six months 1:47:30.120 --> 1:47:32.960 old and goes to the dog parking dogs. You know, 1:47:33.080 --> 1:47:37.519 he's in a corner, you know, without the confidence. So um, 1:47:37.680 --> 1:47:41.599 foundation and fundamentals is like the core class. And then 1:47:42.800 --> 1:47:45.280 Brody you might know this little bit. Yanni doesn't do it, 1:47:45.360 --> 1:47:47.479 and I'm sure Clay doesn't do it in the hound world, 1:47:48.000 --> 1:47:50.320 but in the retrieving world, it's a thing called the 1:47:50.360 --> 1:47:53.439 trained retrieve. If your dog is a sloppy retriever or 1:47:53.600 --> 1:47:56.000 doesn't pick up game, or picks it up and drops 1:47:56.040 --> 1:47:59.320 it fifteen feet from you. Um, there's a process to 1:47:59.400 --> 1:48:01.360 go through to clean up that retrieve and called the 1:48:01.439 --> 1:48:05.200 trained retrieve. And it's got sixteen different parts to it, 1:48:05.320 --> 1:48:08.519 you know. But so that that's a separate class. A 1:48:08.600 --> 1:48:11.960 person could buy that class um if they just like, say, 1:48:12.040 --> 1:48:13.880 I don't care for my dog Steady, and he's pretty 1:48:13.880 --> 1:48:16.120 good dog, let's me clip clip his nails and he's 1:48:16.120 --> 1:48:18.759 already create trained, but I wouldn't mind some better retrieving 1:48:18.800 --> 1:48:20.880 out of him. So you could do that class. And 1:48:20.960 --> 1:48:25.360 then what piggybacks onto foundations and fundamentals is advanced bird work. 1:48:25.920 --> 1:48:28.720 That's where you would see a dog that not only 1:48:28.800 --> 1:48:32.519 would hold point, but learn to relocate on birds, learn 1:48:32.560 --> 1:48:34.920 to hunt with another dog, and back and honor another dog. 1:48:35.240 --> 1:48:37.560 It's like it's like an appointing dog world. If a 1:48:37.640 --> 1:48:41.599 dog's on point, another dog sees it. Ideally that dog 1:48:41.680 --> 1:48:43.679 is going to point the dog that's pointing the bird, 1:48:44.240 --> 1:48:46.800 he's like, oh, he's at work. I can't sneak up 1:48:46.840 --> 1:48:49.759 on him. Let him get his work done. My dogs 1:48:49.800 --> 1:48:51.040 don't do that. I mean, if I can get it 1:48:51.080 --> 1:48:53.320 ready for a test, I could do it, but I don't. 1:48:53.360 --> 1:48:55.160 I don't hunt him that way, you know. I just 1:48:55.400 --> 1:48:57.320 try to get good, trying to be a better wingshooter 1:48:57.360 --> 1:48:58.880 than I am a dog trainer. To be honest with 1:48:59.000 --> 1:49:02.080 you you mentioned Johnny's dog. I think the interesting thing 1:49:02.120 --> 1:49:06.200 about um, what mingus is supposed to do or what 1:49:06.280 --> 1:49:09.000 Clay's coon hounds are supposed to do, is a bird 1:49:09.080 --> 1:49:10.760 dog is supposed to He's kind of got to know 1:49:10.880 --> 1:49:14.479 all these things, right, Yeah, like just a lot of 1:49:14.520 --> 1:49:18.920 commands and stuff. Like the hound dogs they're kind of 1:49:19.320 --> 1:49:23.160 it's like they it's like, no, man, you got not that. 1:49:23.280 --> 1:49:26.400 Not that it's one thing, but all this stuff about sitting, healing, 1:49:26.640 --> 1:49:29.400 rolling over, shaking hands and all that's like not part 1:49:29.439 --> 1:49:33.400 of the conversation. It's like, did you do anything like 1:49:33.520 --> 1:49:35.040 that Yanni with him or were you just trying to 1:49:35.080 --> 1:49:37.800 get him on a raccoon early on? Yeah? No, we 1:49:37.920 --> 1:49:39.400 still I mean I want him to be a good 1:49:39.520 --> 1:49:42.639 uh family dog first and get companion, so I try 1:49:42.680 --> 1:49:45.280 to be real harsh on him with like when we're 1:49:45.320 --> 1:49:48.360 running together, come when I call, Yeah, come, money calls. 1:49:48.439 --> 1:49:50.160 We did a lot of work on the what's the 1:49:50.240 --> 1:49:53.920 long rope called rope fancy terms. You do do some 1:49:54.040 --> 1:49:56.320 of that house dog stuff. Oh yeah, I guess because 1:49:56.320 --> 1:49:58.640 it's your house dogs. Yeah exactly, Clay. You must have 1:49:58.680 --> 1:50:01.120 because I used to watch you did some of your 1:50:01.160 --> 1:50:03.000 YouTube's and one of your dogs is always on your 1:50:03.240 --> 1:50:05.599 you know, behind you during your podcast and during your 1:50:05.640 --> 1:50:08.240 YouTube stuff. Did you do a lot of obedience with 1:50:08.320 --> 1:50:13.479 your hounds? Very informal obedience training that that particular dog 1:50:13.880 --> 1:50:15.680 and and a lot of these dogs I'm hunting are 1:50:15.720 --> 1:50:20.080 just naturally pretty obedient and and you know, so informal 1:50:20.160 --> 1:50:23.240 training just by them being around me so much, you know. 1:50:23.520 --> 1:50:26.839 So what that is is like dogs get certain things inherited, 1:50:26.880 --> 1:50:30.840 and that's called cooperation with a dog on our scorecard. 1:50:30.960 --> 1:50:34.880 And so cooperative dog isn't a real challenge to live 1:50:34.960 --> 1:50:37.400 with if they're cooperative dog and done a little bit 1:50:37.479 --> 1:50:40.280 of overlank sit when stay, or wait to give you 1:50:40.320 --> 1:50:43.360 a food bowl. But there's a lot of dogs that 1:50:43.439 --> 1:50:46.679 have a super high desire, like their desires at attend 1:50:46.720 --> 1:50:50.080 and their co operations at a two and so they're 1:50:50.320 --> 1:50:52.920 they're like, I hate that. I always analogize kids to it. 1:50:53.280 --> 1:50:55.439 They're like that kid that can't sit down in class, 1:50:55.720 --> 1:50:57.840 always getting yelled at, always getting put in the hall. 1:50:57.880 --> 1:50:59.759 The teachers like, oh, we gotta put them on ridland. 1:51:00.320 --> 1:51:02.800 You know. That's kind of like there's bird dogs and 1:51:02.960 --> 1:51:05.960 hounds I'm sure that are much like that. They're almost 1:51:06.040 --> 1:51:08.240 like a it's like a three ring circus getting them 1:51:08.240 --> 1:51:10.479 in and out of the truck. And where I would 1:51:10.520 --> 1:51:12.760 venture to say that you could tell your home dogs 1:51:12.800 --> 1:51:15.720 to sit open one door and load one up if 1:51:15.760 --> 1:51:18.160 you cared to do it. But I've never really spent 1:51:18.240 --> 1:51:20.400 any time with a lot of houndsmen a little bit. 1:51:20.840 --> 1:51:24.120 You know, there's there's there's a lot of variants in 1:51:24.200 --> 1:51:26.920 the hounds. Some of them are not and I've heard 1:51:26.960 --> 1:51:32.000 the term used biddable there. There there's some strains of 1:51:32.080 --> 1:51:34.479 hounds that are just they're just not interested in that. 1:51:34.760 --> 1:51:36.679 They're just not that good. Not to say it couldn't 1:51:36.680 --> 1:51:39.599 be done, but primaries, primarily it's an issue of function. 1:51:39.720 --> 1:51:41.639 We just don't use them that way, so we don't 1:51:41.680 --> 1:51:43.880 need them trained that way. But I think even if 1:51:43.920 --> 1:51:47.400 you could train them that way, it did they would 1:51:47.520 --> 1:51:52.040 never be most of them would never be as good 1:51:52.120 --> 1:51:54.040 as maybe some of the bird dogs that have been 1:51:54.200 --> 1:51:59.400 bred for so long to be cooperative. I got a 1:52:00.000 --> 1:52:03.400 odd question for you, then we'll open up Membail has 1:52:03.439 --> 1:52:06.280 got specific dog questions. But first of all, you guys, 1:52:06.400 --> 1:52:08.880 where do people go find the well? You just you know, 1:52:08.960 --> 1:52:13.040 type in upland institute. And what's they'll find the website 1:52:13.080 --> 1:52:15.639 if you do that. Yeah, www upland Institute dot com. 1:52:16.040 --> 1:52:18.639 That's the name of it. And it's available when people 1:52:18.640 --> 1:52:21.240 are listening to this, it's available, should be available. If 1:52:21.439 --> 1:52:24.920 if for any reason it's not available, you know, you 1:52:25.000 --> 1:52:27.439 can just put a email. There's an email sign up 1:52:27.479 --> 1:52:29.760 page and notifind me when it is. But it's like 1:52:29.800 --> 1:52:32.600 an ola carte transaction. You picked the things you want downloaded, 1:52:32.840 --> 1:52:35.320 right you you you pick the courses you want, and 1:52:35.520 --> 1:52:39.120 you download it and it's yours for life. Ron. I'd 1:52:39.120 --> 1:52:43.360 like to commend you only what four episodes being on 1:52:43.439 --> 1:52:47.000 the show, you picked up all that knowledge. Is a photographer, 1:52:47.120 --> 1:52:55.519 it's well shot, it's pretty I'm like, I'm impressed he 1:52:55.640 --> 1:52:58.600 was taking notes there there. I did take notes, and 1:52:59.600 --> 1:53:03.400 I was always shocked with your your videographers in the field. 1:53:04.160 --> 1:53:06.280 And and I remember you told me to editing has 1:53:06.320 --> 1:53:10.599 got a big thing to do with it. It's all 1:53:11.120 --> 1:53:12.719 to do. You gotta still be good with the camera. 1:53:13.240 --> 1:53:16.040 But when we started, like day one, when we started 1:53:16.080 --> 1:53:18.760 doing this, I went out and bought a GoPro and 1:53:18.960 --> 1:53:22.640 like called up my son in law, who he's an 1:53:22.760 --> 1:53:26.479 editor for another hunting company and he said, what do 1:53:26.479 --> 1:53:28.439 you goetta go pro for? I said, well I wouldn't. 1:53:28.439 --> 1:53:30.360 He goes, no, you need a movie camera. And I 1:53:30.479 --> 1:53:33.200 called up I think it was Rick or Garrett. One 1:53:33.240 --> 1:53:35.120 of them was real good. He got back with me 1:53:35.680 --> 1:53:37.800 and he told me the brand of camera that we 1:53:37.920 --> 1:53:41.400 shot in Montana. He said, that's you'll be able to 1:53:41.439 --> 1:53:43.439 figure out how to use it. It doesn't have too 1:53:43.520 --> 1:53:46.880 many features, but it'll it'll be everything you need. So 1:53:47.160 --> 1:53:49.120 then I went out and spent a bunch of money 1:53:49.160 --> 1:53:51.040 on the camera. And then I was like, well, we 1:53:51.120 --> 1:53:54.800 gotta do this now, you know, because it's invested. I'm invested, right, 1:53:55.000 --> 1:53:58.600 and uh just just uh yeah. So there was a 1:53:58.640 --> 1:54:00.839 secret to a lot of it. It's called the tripod, 1:54:01.560 --> 1:54:04.000 which you guys, we never carry tripods for the camera 1:54:04.040 --> 1:54:07.519 guys out there, but um, when whenever I could set 1:54:07.640 --> 1:54:10.200 something up because we kind of know what's gonna happen, 1:54:10.280 --> 1:54:12.880 but what you're doing instructional, so it's different, right, right, 1:54:13.000 --> 1:54:15.479 So we'll shoot off sticks like they'll shoot off sticks 1:54:15.479 --> 1:54:17.200 now and that on food stuff. But generally we like 1:54:17.320 --> 1:54:21.560 that kind of like um moving around like like like 1:54:21.720 --> 1:54:24.720 it's like with the body, you know what I mean yeah, 1:54:25.000 --> 1:54:29.320 like it feels more human to human. You know, it 1:54:29.400 --> 1:54:32.120 has more of a like a present quality to it's 1:54:32.160 --> 1:54:34.600 free hand. Yeah, you don't call it freehand though, what 1:54:34.640 --> 1:54:39.120 the hell they call it? Yeah? Freehand? Sure, but can 1:54:39.160 --> 1:54:42.760 I see my dog? No? I mean Yanni never, he 1:54:42.800 --> 1:54:46.200 doesn't compliment made people buy anything. Well, I do appreciate that. 1:54:46.240 --> 1:54:48.840 And I also found out that I also found out 1:54:48.920 --> 1:54:51.840 that editors, well I just I'm saying he doesn't throw 1:54:51.880 --> 1:54:54.840 them around. Let me put it differently, Yanni doesn't run 1:54:54.920 --> 1:54:57.720 around given compliments where they're not doing all right. Well, 1:54:57.760 --> 1:55:00.120 then yes it is if you get one. It was 1:55:00.160 --> 1:55:03.720 good visually, it's very pleasant to watch. It's well, he 1:55:03.760 --> 1:55:06.560 doesn't blow a bunch of smoke. No, okay this in now. 1:55:07.000 --> 1:55:10.040 I was told recently that I'm stingy with my likes 1:55:10.160 --> 1:55:16.160 on the Instagram. People know that he can anybody crop 1:55:16.280 --> 1:55:19.000 right now, listen. I like it because you don't run 1:55:19.080 --> 1:55:21.560 around just shine everybody up all the time. And when 1:55:21.600 --> 1:55:23.680 it was a compliment, you pay, you pay attention to 1:55:23.760 --> 1:55:26.280 the compliment. It's an earned compliment. I feel good when 1:55:26.320 --> 1:55:28.400 you're honest. HiT's something like button on mine. Steve never, 1:55:28.680 --> 1:55:32.240 Steve never does anymore. Come on, don't know what I do. 1:55:33.840 --> 1:55:36.800 Let me get my other shot. I'm not that fond 1:55:36.880 --> 1:55:39.680 of the platform, but I should have said this, so 1:55:40.880 --> 1:55:43.920 we we were going to start an Instagram account for that, 1:55:44.080 --> 1:55:47.000 but that's not something I'm counting on. I'm advertising this 1:55:47.120 --> 1:55:49.680 in magazines and partners of mine and from the podcast, 1:55:50.160 --> 1:55:53.800 so all this information will keep coming up on my 1:55:53.960 --> 1:55:56.560 Instagram count which is the Hunting Dog Podcast. Don't go 1:55:56.640 --> 1:55:59.200 to my name, go to the hunting Dog podcast. That's 1:55:59.200 --> 1:56:02.960 your handle that yeah, no underscores and the lashes the 1:56:03.040 --> 1:56:06.200 hunting Dog Hunting Dog Podcast on Instagram, and we'll put 1:56:06.280 --> 1:56:10.160 up notifications and clips and stuff like that so you 1:56:10.200 --> 1:56:13.120 can also get information from that. I'm glad you said Instagram. 1:56:13.880 --> 1:56:15.920 Here's my dog question. I kind of know the answer 1:56:16.000 --> 1:56:17.120 to it, but I just i'd like to hear you 1:56:17.200 --> 1:56:26.640 say about it. Um our little dog will heal for me? Okay, 1:56:27.240 --> 1:56:30.160 and it will heal on command off leash or on 1:56:30.280 --> 1:56:34.680 a leash either. That's impressive. It does it farther away 1:56:34.760 --> 1:56:37.120 off leash? Sure? Because no, because I don't I don't 1:56:37.240 --> 1:56:39.680 have the ability to get its attention right, but it'll 1:56:39.760 --> 1:56:42.080 like it kind of knows. I'm talking about right unleash 1:56:42.240 --> 1:56:47.880 dead nuts. But it won't do the command for other people. 1:56:48.680 --> 1:56:52.480 But in like sophisticated dog training, I'm guessing that you 1:56:52.760 --> 1:56:56.680 like do do you guys? Um? Do you guys view 1:56:56.720 --> 1:56:59.160 it that a dog should be that any handler should 1:56:59.160 --> 1:57:00.640 be able to come in and get out of the 1:57:00.720 --> 1:57:04.160 dog or is it handler specific? I I would say 1:57:05.120 --> 1:57:08.080 if somebody had a dog that was really well rounded, 1:57:08.320 --> 1:57:10.320 I could probably take him to a test and pass him. 1:57:10.320 --> 1:57:12.560 And healing is in the test, so he would probably 1:57:12.920 --> 1:57:16.000 acquiesced and saying okay, he's my owner today. But most 1:57:16.080 --> 1:57:19.400 dogs would act differently without their owner. But I get 1:57:19.440 --> 1:57:23.200 it with the differently. But but like a properly trained horse, yeah, 1:57:23.760 --> 1:57:27.240 it's almost like horse are probably gonna I should ruin 1:57:27.320 --> 1:57:29.200 us by my sister in law. My understanding of a 1:57:29.280 --> 1:57:33.560 properly trained horse is that riders can be interchangeable. Yeah, 1:57:34.320 --> 1:57:36.080 there's a style of riding. A rider should get on 1:57:36.120 --> 1:57:37.880 that horse, and it should it shouldn't need to figure 1:57:37.920 --> 1:57:40.440 out you know, it's like this means that, this means that, 1:57:40.640 --> 1:57:43.360 and the basics are squeeze the legs mean this, the 1:57:43.480 --> 1:57:46.000 rain like these basic commands that if you're a ride 1:57:46.080 --> 1:57:48.600 or you ride a certain style and the horse's right, 1:57:48.640 --> 1:57:50.200 you should be able to be functional with the horse. 1:57:50.520 --> 1:57:53.160 But I always see dogs that they're just not gonna 1:57:53.200 --> 1:57:55.280 listen to most people, and then there's a person to 1:57:55.400 --> 1:57:57.160 listen to, right, And I think that just comes from 1:57:57.200 --> 1:58:00.320 them being a pack animal. Like somehow you've established yourself 1:58:00.320 --> 1:58:03.280 as to alpha and the dog kind of understands that, 1:58:03.680 --> 1:58:05.760 and like, well, when Steve tells me that, he means it. 1:58:06.120 --> 1:58:07.800 And if the kids try to do it, you know, 1:58:08.160 --> 1:58:11.000 I bet you you probably work more with a dog 1:58:11.280 --> 1:58:15.560 than the kids do. Well. When I when it doesn't 1:58:15.600 --> 1:58:19.360 do what I say on that least, it doesn't go unnoticed, right, 1:58:20.720 --> 1:58:23.760 you know, like right, and that's how you snap you 1:58:23.920 --> 1:58:25.360 if you give it a little now you don't. I mean, 1:58:25.360 --> 1:58:26.480 I don't need to do anything now. I just need 1:58:26.520 --> 1:58:29.600 to like just give it a little jiggle. And she's like, oh, yeah, 1:58:29.800 --> 1:58:32.120 I'm good. I don't think she likes it. I think 1:58:32.160 --> 1:58:33.920 when I got around the least, she's like, damn it, 1:58:34.000 --> 1:58:38.080 this guy probably like that dog given given themselves. They 1:58:38.200 --> 1:58:40.080 just feel like a horse they've given. If a horse 1:58:40.160 --> 1:58:41.440 had his choice, he'd be out in the pasture. He 1:58:41.440 --> 1:58:45.480 wouldn't be rolled can I think about it. They're like, really, 1:58:45.880 --> 1:58:48.760 I gotta care your dumb mess around all day, you know, 1:58:49.360 --> 1:58:50.760 and a dog to say, way, like if you did 1:58:50.880 --> 1:58:53.200 do nothing with a dog, the co operative ones are 1:58:53.240 --> 1:58:54.680 gonna be able to be lived with, and the wild 1:58:54.720 --> 1:58:57.200 ones are gonna drive it crazy. They're just always going 1:58:57.240 --> 1:58:59.880 to be into something because there's no structure. It goes 1:59:00.040 --> 1:59:03.760 right back to kids, no structure, no foundation, you're dealing 1:59:03.840 --> 1:59:06.800 with problems down the road. Later on, Yeah, I had 1:59:06.800 --> 1:59:08.480 a guy to say something interested me the other day 1:59:08.480 --> 1:59:11.040 about kids, and we were talking about having rough dads. 1:59:12.200 --> 1:59:14.440 He was saying that, you know, after spending his career 1:59:14.480 --> 1:59:17.960 in public education as an administrator and then having you know, 1:59:18.040 --> 1:59:20.080 his own family as well, he said, I used to 1:59:20.080 --> 1:59:23.160 be worried about being too hard on my kids, But 1:59:23.320 --> 1:59:25.360 after the things I've seen in my career, I realized 1:59:25.400 --> 1:59:27.000 that the people that are too hard on their kids 1:59:27.120 --> 1:59:31.240 have it just about right. That's kind of that goes 1:59:31.320 --> 1:59:34.160 with dogs. You gotta be there's a there's a point 1:59:34.200 --> 1:59:36.480 of you have to I'm the boss, you know, and 1:59:36.640 --> 1:59:41.200 you're and you're not. I remember, um, yeah, you probably 1:59:41.200 --> 1:59:45.880 don't even remember this, but I remember you, uh and 1:59:46.000 --> 1:59:48.280 talking about because you had kids before I had kids, 1:59:48.280 --> 1:59:52.640 you know, tad older than I am, and U two dads. Yeah, 1:59:52.920 --> 1:59:54.960 and just your thing about um, I'm not here to 1:59:55.040 --> 1:59:59.720 beat your friend. Oh you'll do that later, but right now, 1:59:59.840 --> 2:00:03.040 this isn't about us be friends. Oh it's right when 2:00:03.040 --> 2:00:05.040 I would, you know, I would go on those rants 2:00:05.080 --> 2:00:08.040 and rays. It's like when somebody's like, oh, I want 2:00:08.080 --> 2:00:10.320 my kid to be my their best friend, Like, well, 2:00:10.360 --> 2:00:13.320 then your kid doesn't have one, because if you're your 2:00:13.400 --> 2:00:17.200 kid's best friend, man, he's a lonely kid. Your best 2:00:17.240 --> 2:00:19.000 friend should be in a pup tent when you're twelve 2:00:19.040 --> 2:00:22.960 years old, sleeping in the backyard. Shouldn't be you. Yeah, yeah, 2:00:23.000 --> 2:00:25.920 my kids are my friends now. Yeah, because they weren't 2:00:25.960 --> 2:00:30.560 back then. They're like, may he finally likes me. I 2:00:30.600 --> 2:00:32.440 mean I didn't even go to sports games, you know. 2:00:32.800 --> 2:00:35.680 It's like I didn't join I didn't join tennis. Why 2:00:35.720 --> 2:00:38.440 would I go to tennis game. I'm not interested in tennis. 2:00:39.680 --> 2:00:41.280 I wanted to join baseball. When I was a kid. 2:00:41.520 --> 2:00:44.720 My dad says, you're terrible. You can't catch or anything. 2:00:44.800 --> 2:00:47.320 And I'm like, yeah, but my buddy Rusty, he's in 2:00:47.320 --> 2:00:48.520 a little league and I want to go in Little 2:00:48.560 --> 2:00:51.600 League and he goes, all right, all right, fine, we're 2:00:51.600 --> 2:00:53.000 gonna get you, but you're going to every game and 2:00:53.040 --> 2:00:56.120 every practice. He never showed up to one. It was 2:00:56.200 --> 2:00:57.840 my job to get on my bike and go there. 2:00:57.920 --> 2:01:02.120 And it was miserable. I have learned a lot. You 2:01:02.240 --> 2:01:04.600 kind to realize this, but I actually like picked up 2:01:05.160 --> 2:01:06.640 like a handful of I didn't have a ton of 2:01:06.680 --> 2:01:08.520 exposure to you and your kids because we were working 2:01:08.560 --> 2:01:11.000 and stuff or hunting or whatever, but I picked up 2:01:11.040 --> 2:01:14.200 a handful of like, um, it's hard to explain it, 2:01:15.160 --> 2:01:20.480 just like I recognized early on, like a demeanor the 2:01:20.600 --> 2:01:25.960 way you spoke to your kids. Uh, I don't know, 2:01:26.160 --> 2:01:31.160 there's like like authority but understanding on equal footing but 2:01:31.280 --> 2:01:32.880 not you know, it was like it was it was 2:01:33.280 --> 2:01:35.240 you spoke to your kids in a deliberate sort of way. 2:01:35.440 --> 2:01:37.760 Yeah yeah, yeah, you know. There was not like sweet 2:01:37.800 --> 2:01:41.240 talking people know it. It was it was very conversational 2:01:41.360 --> 2:01:43.920 with them, like kind of like leveling with them. I 2:01:44.000 --> 2:01:46.640 picked up on that, you know, I like I noticed 2:01:46.680 --> 2:01:50.160 it even prior to having kids, that there was a it. 2:01:51.000 --> 2:01:53.160 It didn't seem accidental, you know, it seemed like it 2:01:53.240 --> 2:01:55.720 was a developed way to deal with kids. I'll give 2:01:55.800 --> 2:01:57.840 I'll give Sue most of the credit because I was 2:01:57.880 --> 2:02:01.640 working on the road, but that way of I mean literally, 2:02:01.680 --> 2:02:04.120 i'd get compliments. I could take my three girls when 2:02:04.200 --> 2:02:06.520 they were ten or twelve years old to a dog 2:02:06.640 --> 2:02:10.520 test and I never had a They weren't climbing on anything, 2:02:10.600 --> 2:02:13.680 they weren't starting trouble. They're just they occupy themselves, you 2:02:13.760 --> 2:02:16.120 know that Just it's just the way you raise him. 2:02:16.640 --> 2:02:18.920 It's funny how you wind up making it your own. 2:02:19.000 --> 2:02:21.200 Like my boy there, they were on a plane and 2:02:22.200 --> 2:02:23.680 he wanted to get water something. I said, we'll go 2:02:23.720 --> 2:02:25.000 up and talk to that moment up there and get water. 2:02:25.080 --> 2:02:26.520 You know, a while later she comes back. You have 2:02:26.600 --> 2:02:29.480 the nicest boy. You know, makes my weak But how 2:02:29.560 --> 2:02:32.000 many parents would have said, okay, I'll go get it 2:02:32.120 --> 2:02:34.520 for you. So you make him. You're gonna go out 2:02:34.520 --> 2:02:36.520 there and here's what you're saying. You're telling this and 2:02:36.840 --> 2:02:38.640 get the thing. When I came to your house last night, 2:02:38.680 --> 2:02:40.520 all three kids go up and you haven't seen Ronnie 2:02:40.560 --> 2:02:42.520 in a long time, go up and shake Ronnie's hand. Yeah, 2:02:42.720 --> 2:02:45.680 you know, and you know the kids are so But 2:02:45.720 --> 2:02:47.120 I hope by the time they're eighteen, they'll do it 2:02:47.120 --> 2:02:50.480 without me, Like they'll you know, not embarrassing the people 2:02:50.520 --> 2:02:52.240 in the eye, and they'll shake their hand when they 2:02:52.280 --> 2:02:54.680 interview for a job. Someday. That's all. That's all you 2:02:54.720 --> 2:02:58.640 can hope for. Yeah, and alays got a dog question? Yeah, 2:02:58.800 --> 2:03:03.400 can you teach an old dog trick? Seriously? Like in 2:03:03.600 --> 2:03:07.120 regards to let's say someone I've always wanted this. Like, 2:03:07.320 --> 2:03:10.440 let's say someone there's a there's a German short hair 2:03:10.520 --> 2:03:12.640 pointer that's a year or two old at the pound 2:03:13.240 --> 2:03:16.400 that was never it was just someone's house dog and 2:03:16.440 --> 2:03:18.880 they got rid of it. It's never kept chewing up 2:03:18.880 --> 2:03:22.720 the couch and and someone's like, man, I don't want 2:03:22.720 --> 2:03:26.240 to pay two tho dollars for a bread puppy, but 2:03:26.280 --> 2:03:28.120 I'm gonna get this dog from the pound and turn 2:03:28.200 --> 2:03:31.000 it into a bird dog. Like can that be done? Oh? Yeah? 2:03:32.360 --> 2:03:34.880 The problem is if you adopt a dog, and I 2:03:34.960 --> 2:03:37.480 think Yanni could probably speak to it because he he 2:03:37.560 --> 2:03:40.440 adopted a hunting dog from a brand new one, but 2:03:40.520 --> 2:03:43.200 no idea what his background was, no background. So if 2:03:43.200 --> 2:03:45.080 you don't have the background, let's say on that German 2:03:45.160 --> 2:03:48.560 short hair like an older one it might come from 2:03:48.640 --> 2:03:51.680 what's called what we would refer to as a showline. 2:03:52.160 --> 2:03:54.360 Like so the dogs were in the show ring and 2:03:54.520 --> 2:03:58.120 really not hunted for the last that dog's parents, grandparents, 2:03:58.240 --> 2:04:01.000 great grandparents, they just didn't hunt much. They're still gonna 2:04:01.040 --> 2:04:03.400 have instincts, They're still gonna be okay. But you could 2:04:03.440 --> 2:04:06.680 certainly get a dog from a pound. And I know 2:04:06.760 --> 2:04:09.480 there's a guy who rescues dogs where his wife does, 2:04:10.200 --> 2:04:13.560 and he whenever a like an English setter and English 2:04:13.600 --> 2:04:15.400 pointer or something shows up in the sporting dog world, 2:04:15.640 --> 2:04:18.040 he takes it in and he hunts with them. They 2:04:18.160 --> 2:04:21.000 can they can learn obedience, you know, like their genetics 2:04:21.040 --> 2:04:25.200 don't expire and they can learn there and that nothing 2:04:25.480 --> 2:04:28.360 no genetics expire. The nose is going to be there 2:04:28.400 --> 2:04:30.920 the whole time. The love of birds, it's like like 2:04:31.920 --> 2:04:35.680 the big here's one. I again. I love analogies. My 2:04:35.760 --> 2:04:38.200 biggest problem is when people call me up, they'll ask 2:04:38.280 --> 2:04:40.680 those questions like can my dogs still do this? And 2:04:40.720 --> 2:04:42.760 I never did it? Yes? And then the other one 2:04:42.880 --> 2:04:45.240 is I got this brand new dog, when should I 2:04:45.280 --> 2:04:48.800 get it into birds? Everybody wants to see their dog 2:04:49.400 --> 2:04:51.800 point a bird first, right, So my buddy says, oh, 2:04:51.800 --> 2:04:53.400 I gotta I got some quail or there's a hunt 2:04:53.400 --> 2:04:55.880 club over here. They'll let you go after a test 2:04:55.920 --> 2:04:58.440 and we'll bring your puppy out there. And I'm like, okay, 2:04:58.480 --> 2:05:00.240 that's fine, you want to see it once. But people 2:05:00.360 --> 2:05:03.840 overdo it and I keep in They're like, so, Ron, 2:05:03.920 --> 2:05:06.240 you're telling me I don't need to get my young 2:05:06.320 --> 2:05:08.160 dog in front of birds. And I always tell him, 2:05:08.920 --> 2:05:11.040 you know, did your dad leave a Playboy magazine on 2:05:11.120 --> 2:05:13.440 the counter so you when you hit Pubert you would 2:05:13.480 --> 2:05:19.400 like it? No? I mean, yeah, I understand, right, you 2:05:19.520 --> 2:05:21.880 don't need to expose them that. The difference in the 2:05:21.960 --> 2:05:23.200 dog and a kid is the dog gets to be 2:05:23.200 --> 2:05:26.200 a teenager by the time he's ten months old, and 2:05:26.280 --> 2:05:30.120 a teenager takes thirteen years. But again, throwing that Playboy 2:05:30.200 --> 2:05:32.520 magazine in front of him, that's not what they need. 2:05:32.680 --> 2:05:36.400 They need the shaking hands waiting to be released. They 2:05:36.440 --> 2:05:41.440 need opening the door. They need the structure, the pointing 2:05:41.480 --> 2:05:43.320 instinct and the love of the game is genetically in 2:05:43.360 --> 2:05:49.840 the dog. One last question, Yeah, what's the uh what's 2:05:49.880 --> 2:05:54.400 the advice you'd give to any new either new dog owner, 2:05:54.480 --> 2:05:58.800 anyone bringing home a rescue dog, A puppy, Like, what's 2:05:58.840 --> 2:06:02.080 the thing they need to get on? Uh? For for one? 2:06:02.160 --> 2:06:05.000 Always create training. You know if you a lot of 2:06:05.040 --> 2:06:07.640 people try to do without a create. Create training is 2:06:07.680 --> 2:06:11.080 super important for a young dog. Okay, a create would 2:06:11.080 --> 2:06:14.400 be like a portable transportation create. You'll see him on airlines, 2:06:14.480 --> 2:06:17.840 they call him airline creates. Um getting a getting a 2:06:17.880 --> 2:06:22.280 puppy used to sleeping in that crate by himself learning 2:06:23.000 --> 2:06:28.160 not it helps him to not develop separation anxiety. Like, 2:06:28.360 --> 2:06:30.720 it's what training mean. He's comfortable in there. He's comfortable 2:06:30.720 --> 2:06:32.560 in there. Now his first day in there, he's gonna 2:06:32.600 --> 2:06:34.920 bark and squawk and yell and and it's just like 2:06:35.040 --> 2:06:37.280 the first time you put a baby in a crib 2:06:37.320 --> 2:06:40.120 when they're old enough to cry. If you are putting 2:06:40.160 --> 2:06:42.280 them down for a nap and they cry and you're 2:06:42.280 --> 2:06:44.400 going and get him, what did they do? Oh? I cry? 2:06:44.480 --> 2:06:46.840 Mom comes get me. So if your dogs crying and 2:06:47.600 --> 2:06:53.760 out on the couch and just basically crying ourselves, it's 2:06:53.800 --> 2:06:57.120 exact same thing with a puppy. You gotta you just 2:06:57.240 --> 2:06:59.920 gotta put the music up higher and let him cry 2:07:00.040 --> 2:07:02.080 himself to sleep, and then the next day he'll fuss 2:07:02.080 --> 2:07:04.000 a little bit more or a little bit less, and 2:07:04.080 --> 2:07:06.280 then after a while he's like, oh, that's where I 2:07:06.360 --> 2:07:08.240 go and it's not my time to be with people. 2:07:08.800 --> 2:07:11.920 And then later on you'll see it's real common if 2:07:11.960 --> 2:07:14.640 you have a crate in the house, Like if somebody 2:07:14.680 --> 2:07:16.080 comes over, you got a dog that you don't want. 2:07:16.120 --> 2:07:18.280 Her baby comes over, you don't you know a little 2:07:18.320 --> 2:07:20.720 toddler tell a dog to go to create, but you'll find, 2:07:20.840 --> 2:07:23.280 like my wife's dog, You're like, where did dog go? 2:07:23.680 --> 2:07:25.560 And you look at the create doors open, he's in there, sleeping. 2:07:26.040 --> 2:07:29.960 It becomes his little Yeah, it's his place. Yeah, So 2:07:30.080 --> 2:07:33.680 I mean create trading and socialization being trying to do 2:07:33.760 --> 2:07:35.680 as much as you can with the dog. Get the 2:07:35.720 --> 2:07:38.560 dog in front of other people, let other people handle 2:07:38.640 --> 2:07:42.280 it if they're willing. Um. Try to get your whole family, 2:07:43.000 --> 2:07:44.760 even if you've got young kids, try to get them 2:07:44.800 --> 2:07:47.080 all to do a little of this hands on stuff. 2:07:47.560 --> 2:07:49.920 So that dog kind of goes a little bit down 2:07:50.000 --> 2:07:52.840 the pack line. It's like, oh, even a little toddler 2:07:52.920 --> 2:07:55.680 has to look at my mouth. Jeez, what's yeah, I'll say, 2:07:56.040 --> 2:07:58.080 dog won't look my youngest in the eye. Right. He 2:07:58.160 --> 2:08:01.200 tries to act like he does exist. It's like looks 2:08:01.440 --> 2:08:03.880 in the corner and I'll bet you somewhere along the line, 2:08:04.280 --> 2:08:07.440 your youngest just kind of grabbed his tail or something 2:08:07.520 --> 2:08:10.040 and he's like that thing. It's like, I can't bite him, 2:08:10.040 --> 2:08:11.640 but I don't. I can't. They can't make me look 2:08:11.680 --> 2:08:14.880 at him either. Nope, Nope, I can't bite him, but 2:08:15.240 --> 2:08:18.960 I don't have to like him. Uh getty. Ron Bam 2:08:19.640 --> 2:08:24.000 Upland Institute Project Hunting Dog Podcast, Ron Bam, thank you, 2:08:24.400 --> 2:08:27.280 Thank you, and thank you Steve for having me come 2:08:27.320 --> 2:08:29.760 out and getting to spread the word with you anytime, 2:08:29.880 --> 2:08:33.560 almost anytime, anytime, anytime, anytime I can get ahold of 2:08:33.600 --> 2:08:36.520 Karin schedule me to come out, provide her was something 2:08:36.600 --> 2:08:38.440 that tittilates us, and you'll be on the show. We 2:08:38.520 --> 2:08:40.240 could do a whole another one. It would be nothing 2:08:40.280 --> 2:08:42.320 to do with dogs, just all those fun all those 2:08:42.360 --> 2:08:44.080 things that have happened to me that are you see 2:08:44.080 --> 2:08:45.600 what we're working with here. You gotta wait till you 2:08:45.720 --> 2:08:48.760 fill up a thingful of subject ideas, and be warned, 2:08:48.880 --> 2:08:50.640 next time you here, we're gonna have our little dials 2:08:51.760 --> 2:08:54.640 with a light in the middle, so you'll be Ron. 2:08:54.680 --> 2:08:57.640 I'll probably break that thing. Oh yeah, it just depends 2:08:57.680 --> 2:08:59.480 on coming the door and it's gonna turn it to 2:08:59.520 --> 2:09:02.560 full black. That's it, red light. Thank you, Steve, thank you, 2:09:02.680 --> 2:09:08.920 Johnny Brody, thank you everybody. Thank you, Phil, Good Clay, Nucomb, Nucomb, 2:09:08.960 --> 2:09:12.400 thanks for joining man Hey, thanks for having me pleasure. 2:09:13.360 --> 2:09:18.040 Good Clay. Yeah, Clay and I talked five years ago 2:09:18.040 --> 2:09:20.480 when I first started the podcast. You didn't know him 2:09:20.480 --> 2:09:23.960 at all back then. Now, Yeah, it's true. We go 2:09:24.120 --> 2:09:27.000 way back, all right, boys, see you all right, see 2:09:27.040 --> 2:09:27.080 you