WEBVTT - Improvements in COVID-19 Testing 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors, 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 and of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.959 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts and more than a 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:22.959 hundred and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:26.079 Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, al Bloomberg dot com. You 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.240 can also listen to our radio show at two pm 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.159 Eastern on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:36.040 YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. A lot of folks, 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:38.880 us included, are thinking about what it's going to take 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:41.559 to get back to the office. We're hearing that a 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.000 lot here in the Tri state area. I mentioned a 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:46.280 few minutes ago that New York City is starting to 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.800 reopen as of next Monday. Neighboring Connecticut is also thinking 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.040 about this a lot. Let's get into that with Dr 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:56.520 Eric Shott. He is the founder and CEO of Semaphore. 0:00:56.640 --> 0:01:00.240 He joins us on the phone from Connecticut and Dr shot. 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:02.880 It's really nice to to talk to you. I'm fascinated 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:07.000 by your background and your experience in both the clinical 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.920 and researches also and also the commercial help us understand 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:14.520 what back to work testing looks like, especially when you're 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:18.440 looking at Connecticut. Yeah, well great, too great to be on. 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.600 So what it looks like is we need a more 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:28.120 holistic solution, not just focused on testing, but really seeking 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.680 to understand the context in which each employee is existing, 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.119 like whether they have symptoms or not, who they're being 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:38.640 exposed to, and so on, in addition to the testing, 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:42.680 and we kind of wrap that altogether to provide guidance 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:47.800 to employers on whether a given employee is uh, you know, 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.960 low enough risk and not testing as positive and should 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.600 be allowed no problem back into work, versus somebody at 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.600 high risk UH and maybe should not be coming in, 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:01.240 should stay remote. So this is what you guys are doing, 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:03.480 and I'm reading something from the Stanford Advocate. I mean, 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.160 you guys are increasing the capacity for your new coronavirus 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:09.880 testing program to at least ten thousand tests daily up 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.840 to twenty and we're talking about the test of whether 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:18.280 or not you've got the virus. But also antibody testing. Correct. Yeah, 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.160 that's correct. And a lot of that volume driven by 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.400 you know, uh, you know, working with the State of 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:27.880 Connecticut Governor Lamont and the progressive strategy they have to 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:30.880 really uh, you know, get people back to work. So 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:36.280 proud to be helping those guys along. And so, I mean, 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.480 I guess and I love the fact that you're looking 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:43.160 at it very holistically, uh, Eric, I mean, just as 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:45.920 a sort of rank and follow employees and you know, 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:49.639 folks who are commuting and things like that, as as 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:55.519 human beings, and obviously folks who have pre existing conditions 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.160 and are more at risk. I think there's a different, 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:02.000 different set of circumstances. But what should the everyday person 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.160 who's thinking about their office be Is there sort of 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:08.000 a checklist that we should be thinking about in terms 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:13.600 of our own uh thresholds, in our own sense of safety. Yeah. 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.400 In fact, it's interesting and the dozens of employers we've 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.920 talked to about these go back to work strategies and 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.440 use of testing, A lot of this is employee driven, 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.200 like the employee wanting to understand how safe are they 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:29.280 going to be at the workplace? Are they going to 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.360 be exposed? Are they going to carry something back to 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:35.240 the households which may have vulnerable others. So we're seeing 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:37.800 a lot of this driven by the employees. Some of 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:41.080 the employers like they need individuals back to be productive, 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.320 they want come back in the workplace. And so what 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:47.240 we're seeing is the employees really saying, well, we'll make 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:48.840 us safe if we do that. So there are a 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.920 bunch of guidelines to the employers about how to you know, 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.520 maintain social distancing within the workplace and so on. Um, 0:03:56.600 --> 0:04:00.000 there's the kind of symptom tracking that you want individual 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.800 rules coming into to be taking. So increase awareness in 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:07.280 the employee on whether they're you know, they're not feeling 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.200 well or they've been exposed outside of the work environment. 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.400 All of that, through the kind of digital engagement we have, 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:17.920 can be reported and cataloged and used to assess risk 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.400 in addition to the testing. So again it's it's trying 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:25.800 to cover as many variables as possible. Well, once you're 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:28.960 in the work environment again, you know, just smart maintaining 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.000 social distancing, wearing a mask if you're in public areas, 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:35.120 are exposed to other individuals and so on. And I 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:36.720 want to press you on one point because you brought 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:38.880 up and I think it's so important, which is this 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:42.840 idea that if someone and I certainly trust my employer. 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:44.800 I've worked for a great company and I'm not just 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.520 saying that because I'm on its air. But you know, 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:49.720 the thing that I think many people worry about is 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:53.200 exactly what you said, the sort of inadvertently bringing bringing 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.719 something home and is that just something? Is that a 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:57.960 risk we're just going to have to to live with 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.599 And how much of this goes down to kind of 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:04.359 that individual responsibility and maybe the in between things that 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:09.760 are happening between work and and the workplace and vice versa. Yeah, 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.880 it's it's a bit complicated because it has to take 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.640 into account, you know, to to what extent does an 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:19.880 employer actually need you working in the office. So one 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.160 of the things we do with the employer groups is 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:26.080 assessing helping them assess is an employee really needed to 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.040 come back in or can they be remote? And if 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:32.200 they fall into higher risk categories, i e. They have 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:39.000 individuals at home who are more vulnerable, elderly elderly parents 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:42.320 living with them, immune compromise individuals, and so on. So 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.640 that's number one. Number two is age, age plays a 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:49.520 significant role in in the severity of response you may 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.800 undergo if you get infected, so all of those parameters 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.200 are taken into account. Education is a key part of this, 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.880 and it's helping everybody understand the risk to what is 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.200 center they needed in the office, to what extent can 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:06.080 they remain remote? And based on those, various thresholds are 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:08.919 set for the different risk groups. Our guest at this 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:11.880 hour Dr Eric Shot, founder and CE at Semaphore, a 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:16.240 patient centric predictive health companies, also Dean for Precision Medicine 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:20.240 and amount Sinai Professor and Predictive Health and Computation Biology 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.000 at the Icon School of Medicine at Mount sina As 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:27.479 we said, he's had lots of education and lots of schooling. Um, 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:29.440 doctor Shot, it is nice to have you here with us, 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.680 and you're talking about, you know, the work that you 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:33.799 guys are doing at Semaphore with the State of Connecticut 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:37.279 in terms of providing more access and more testing. Given 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.560 your druthers, would you, as a member of the medical community, 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:45.640 pervert that people ultimately just stay home a little longer. Yeah, 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.520 I think we're seeing, uh are already seeing that some 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:52.400 of the timelines on when when governments wanted to see 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:54.719 people back to work and people wanting to be back 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.760 to work, that kind of getting delayed. Let things right 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.200 out a little longer. The you know, the number are 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.960 definitely going down. But I do ultimately think that testing 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.080 is sort of a core part of a key part 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.040 of evidence, along with other parameters that sort of assess 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:13.680 whether somebody does have active infection or whether they've been 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.800 infected and may be immune and dr shot. You know, 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.040 I know that this is top of mind for you 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.160 because you have been involved in the collection of a 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:28.080 lot of very sensitive data. How do we protect privacy 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:32.200 amid all of this, Yeah, that's a great question. You know. 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.800 The digital solution we sort of provide to an employer 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.840 that includes both an employer portal where they can upload 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.520 who what employees do they want to have back in 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.920 the workplace, so who's eligible, and then for the employee 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.559 employee portals that we engage in clinical testing all the time. 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:53.280 So this technology that keeps you know, we're dealing with HIPPA, uh, 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.240 personal personally identifiable health information like all of that, we 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.440 stay of the art um you know, encryption techn oologies 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.080 and so on, and many of the employers, like once 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:07.120 these tests are run unemployees, whether they're positive or negative, UM, 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.560 you know, the employers often don't want to see that information. 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.000 They don't want to take in, um, you know, what's 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.920 medically happening to the individuals. So we have the ability 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:19.000 to shield that information to guide UH employees who test 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.440 is positive into the right channels of care. So it's 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.560 employing the same kinds of techniques and technologies that we 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:28.640 imply in clinical medicine to to to perform this kind 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.600 of testing. I do feel like, you know, doctor Shot, 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:35.920 that we have been talking about disrupting the medical community 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:37.440 for a long time, and I feel like it's been 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.480 resistant for many different reasons. But I do feel like 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.920 what's happened with COVID nineteen is is revealing that we 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.720 really need to change how we do things. And unfortunately, 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:48.680 as a result of that, we are going to be 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:50.400 giving up more data, and there's going to be more 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.200 sharing of data, and there's going to have to be 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:57.160 data pools. Is that just kind of our new reality? Yeah, Carol, 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.760 and I think you've hit it exactly on the head. 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.559 This is going to be a transformational event that way, 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:06.760 like there's going to be much more remote monitoring of 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:11.080 patients and engagements remotely, a lot more information being transmitted 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:16.640 digitally that way. I think increasingly patients and consumers more 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:21.439 generally becoming more comfortable that UM sharing that kind of information, 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.880 having more information collected on them will have lots of benefits. 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:29.479 So there's kind of that risk benefit ratio that employees, 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:32.360 you know, employees consumers always have in mind, and so 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.240 I think, yeah, we'll gravitate towards a new equilibrium that 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.839 I think will have us UM you know, tolerating higher 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:43.440 risk and maybe greater privacy risk violations in trade for 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.200 ensuring we stay healthier and don't bring bad stuff into 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.120 the home. Last question for you before you let you go, 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.400 what do you worry about the most interns of back 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:58.640 to work? Yeah, I think it's having a holistic enough 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:03.600 solution that well enough characterizes what's happening in an individual 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:07.360 and what is their risk profile. Really, as we start 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.240 getting into different types of sample collection and make it 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.080 more convenient, whether it's saliva and at home collections, you know, 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.800 are those sensitivity and bessicity of the tests? Are they 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.000 going to be as accurate? So we're like a lot 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:22.079 of energy being spent both with the state of Connecticut 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.440 and all the testing we're doing to assess all of 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.440 those different parameters to you know, we're all learning together. 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:31.000 We have to adapt and as we learn, and and uh, 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.400 you know, but yeah, it's that we'd be accurate enough, 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.720 I guests would be mine. Now. I think that's I 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:37.400 think that's exactly right. I mean, we had a great 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.920 story a few weeks ago colleague of ours in London 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:45.120 did about getting four tests and essentially two of them 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:47.240 are negative, to them were positive, and so you do 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.199 wonder about the accuracy and that ultimately will make a 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.720 huge difference our Thanks to Dr Eric Shott, founder CEO 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.200 of Semaphore Jinus on the phone from Stanford, Connecticut. They 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.560 are working with the state Carol to get that state 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.640 back to work. And I take his point at the 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:07.480 end there. It's a really important one because that the 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:12.280 data are only good if they're real and true, right correct, 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.440 and it needs to be consistent. We've talked about this 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:16.120 that if everybody is doing kind of their own thing 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:18.720 and there's no consistency in terms of collection, and then 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:20.920 you know how you look at it, it's not going 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.440 to be ultimately useful in the end, so really really important. 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.400 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:32.080 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Well. Among our most read stories 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.880 on the Bloomberg today is one in the magazine this week. 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:37.719 It's about how a decade of progress for women has 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.720 evaporated overnight because of the pandemic. It was one of 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.199 those stories we were talking about on our planning call 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.320 this morning. The story by Shelley Banjo Bloomberg News is 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:50.319 uh technology reporters. She joins us in a second lost 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.240 nice place. She is our senior writer. Forgive me Shelley. 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.600 Shelley Banjo is our senior writer at Bloomberg News. Wanted 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:58.720 to get her title correctly. On the phone from Dallas, Texas, 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.079 she joins us along with Bloomber Business Week editor Joe 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.400 Weber on the phone in Brooklyn and Joel, I mean 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:06.920 it's a special magazine this week in terms of what 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.840 you guys are doing. What I love about this story 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:13.000 is that you really dig into what's going on telling 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:16.360 the story, uh, the numbers, the stories that really give 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:22.080 us an idea of how the pandemic specifically is impacting women. Yeah, 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:25.560 I mean every issue is special, Carol. You know, this 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.680 is one of those stories that the momentum we started 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.760 talking about it. I just said, this is supremely important, 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.160 and you know, it's been sort of bubbling for a second, 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.120 like we've seen some of these numbers come out, but 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.080 this was the first time that we actually really managed 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.440 to put them all in one place to get a 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:47.040 sense of just how dramatic this moment is for women 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:51.000 specifically who have basically shouldered the burden of the pandemic 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.160 in a way that um that men haven't. Um, Shelley, 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:55.719 as you did. You're reporting. What were the numbers that 0:12:55.760 --> 0:13:00.880 really jumped out to you? Oh, good question. I mean 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.000 the first thing is definitely the job losses. Uh. You know, 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.480 a lot of terms. We compared this to what happened 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.440 in two thousand and eight, and a lot of those 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.600 sectors that were most hard hit were things like housing, 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.480 UM construction areas where a lot of men were and 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.559 this time around it's a complete flip, but it's um 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:22.000 areas where where women are. For that of the job losses, UM, 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.240 you know, was a big one for me. And the 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.880 other number that really shoot out to me was just 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:31.040 the sheer number of women that are breadwinners in their family. 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.720 I guess I just didn't really quite realize, um, you know, 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:41.120 how much how much that was, and how much of this, Shelley. 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.480 I mean, this was a stunning story in many ways, 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.520 although as both Carol and Joelhood said, it was one 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.079 of these things that probably if you think about it, 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.320 was was hiding in plain sight. I mean, to me, 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.840 one of the most troubling aspects of it is that 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.680 it's going to be really it's gonna be a slow 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:05.160 slog back to even where we were much less real progress. 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.440 Talked to talk to us about that and and sort 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.960 of how this may how hard it may be to 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.200 to really reverse this, and and Jason, one thing to 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.839 add just there is that last year or women made 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.080 up the majority of the US workforce for almost the 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:23.160 first time in a decade, right, sull you like, just 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:25.480 think about that in context as you as you sort 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.680 of respond to that. That's exactly right. I mean, I 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:30.800 think your point on hiding in a plane site is 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:32.800 a good one because a lot of these things you 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.920 don't see, I mean, you don't see the hours, um 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.320 that women are necessarily staying up later at night to 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.200 finish and this kind of burnout potential of you know, 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.760 I finish my work for the day, and then I'm 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:47.600 with my kids, and then I'm planning on and again 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.200 to work until two o'clock in the morning. And those 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.280 are the type of kind of burnout that that starts 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.760 to um, that starts to really weigh on people. UM. 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.240 And I think that could you know, have some bigger, 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.720 long good term implications. UM. You look at all the 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:05.200 women that are just kind of bowing out of the workforce, 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:09.040 taking leave, taking parental leave. Now, UM, that's going to 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:13.840 impact longer term, longer term earnings and income for women. UM. 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:15.920 And then you look at a lot of women that 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.880 have no choice like that. They they're single women who um, 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.920 you know, provide everything for their family and so they 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.120 have no choice but to work. And so for them 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:28.400 that means putting their kids in a lot of precarious 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.480 and unsafe situations. You know what's interesting, Shelley and I 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.840 think Jason, back to some of the early conversations we 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.200 had once we went into you know, working from home, 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.360 is that folks thought, you know, this might be helpful 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.960 to women and giving them more flexibility in terms of 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.280 working operations because everybody was at home. We were realizing 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:48.840 it was working more effectively than I think anybody imagined 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.680 and thought that this might be a boon for women, 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:56.680 and it's interesting to see how it's playing out ultimately. Yeah, 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:58.480 I think that's right. I mean, working from home does 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.480 save you sometime in terms of commute and things like that. Um, 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:04.920 but you can't do two things that wants. You can't 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.400 both you know, breastfeed the child and uh, I'll lead 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.000 a conference call, which so I have seen that before. Um, 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.720 but you know, it's it's you can't do two things 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:16.920 at the same time. You can't be two places at once, 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:20.480 and so kids some um, you know, I think it 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:22.560 sums up in my fur in the very first line 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.840 of the story, which is the reality of the pandemic. 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.120 If someone has to stay with the kids, and so 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.520 as long as you have kids, someone has to watch them, 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.040 and in most cases that's ending up on the women. 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.080 And when that means is then they can't do their jobs. 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.800 And so you know, to me, in a frustrating part 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.120 of this, companies are saying, yeah, we're trying to be um, 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:45.040 we're trying to be understanding of this, but but really, 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.520 you know, I think it takes some greater policies, and 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.000 so that's something I thought was very interesting, UM from 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.040 some of the think tanks that I spoke to, which said, 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:55.800 you know, this is really a moment where we can 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.760 either take what's happened and make things worse, or we 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.080 can take what's happened and make things better and institutionalize 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.880 some of these things that we've started to do around 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.040 working from home and paid sickly even UM, some of 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.600 these temporary provisions that have been written in for workers 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:13.919 right now, and think, you know, how can we actually 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:17.240 turn these into long term solutions because what the pandemic 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.840 unveiled was, you know, we don't have this kind of 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:24.560 safety net written into um, the government, into laws, into 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.560 the way companies work and across the board. And so 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:30.600 you know, where can we what can we learn from this, 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.960 what can we take away, and how can we emerge 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:38.200 from this better. It also revealed, speaking from personal experience here, 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.800 the importance of school where you can put kids and 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:45.119 and then actually, you know, go do your job. And 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.240 you you know, just continuing that thought that you had 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:52.639 there Shelly about what employers are are doing and can doing, 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:54.800 Like what did you what else did you learn about 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.639 um um you know, most effective policies that employers are 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:03.240 using during this time. I think having a policy is effective. 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:05.119 So a lot of companies have said, you know what, 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:09.480 we're behind our employees, Well, we're gonna make um We're 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:11.760 gonna make adjustments. But what I found from talking to 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:13.879 a lot of these women are I don't want to 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.200 ask for an adjustment. I don't want to ask for 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.400 a special treatment just because I have to take care 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.399 of my kids. It's a bad economic time. People are 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:25.080 worried that their job prospects are shaky or that their 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:29.159 next um, you know, promotion might not be there. If 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:30.800 they're the ones who had to say, oh, you know what, 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.320 during this time, it actually need you to give me 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.080 a break a little bit, because for every person who 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.040 might need a break right now, there are people who 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:41.960 don't necessarily have the same kind of caregiving responsibilities that 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:46.160 others have. And so UM, I think having a policy 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:50.119 in place is something that makes it, um you know, 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.800 streamlines the situation a little bit easier for people to take. 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:55.960 And I think you know, I'm hearing too from a 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.000 lot of folks that those policies need to be very 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:01.760 clear concise, understood and really written out so that people 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.959 understand truly, you know, what a company is, okay with 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:08.080 it followed without any repercussion, exactly, followed up on and 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.240 enforced and enforced fairly. Yeah, I think it's it's a 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:13.919 really important point. This is a great story. Yeah, I 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.200 think it's really important and I love I mean, I'm 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:18.320 going to put it out on Twitter because the numbers 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.760 in it to really tell you what's going on right 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.679 now on and in particular, um the disproportionate impact that 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.679 women are seeing. Shelley Banjo. She is senior writer at 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.200 Bloomberg News. She joined us on the phone from Dallas, Texas, 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.320 along with Joe Weber, editor a Bloomberg business Week on 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:37.520 the remote line from Brooklyn. Check out that story in 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.720 the issue. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:46.280 Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right, let's 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:48.560 talk a little Business Week economics. We talked about this 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:50.840 story a little bit. We teed it up, I think 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.520 rather nicely. For our next guest, Elena Shats, She's quoted 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:57.680 in the story that is one of the most read 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.399 on the Bloomberg and it's all about what may happen 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.640 next when it comes to who may lose their jobs 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.240 in the aftermath of this pandemic. She, of course, is 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.560 senior US economists for Boomberg Economics, joining us on the 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:14.480 phone from Long Island and Yelena, I have to say, 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:18.359 you know, reading this research and understanding the data that 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:22.240 you and your team collected, it is troubling for a 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.040 lot of our audience in many ways, who I think 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.320 was probably able to say, Okay, well you know, I'm 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:32.200 not an hourly restaurant worker. I don't work in retail. 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:36.240 This is going to be much more widespread and as 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:39.359 this continues, we're talking about a lot of higher paying 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:44.680 white color jobs, right UH. And I think the key 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:49.639 point here is that a lot of white college jobs 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.760 and a lot of jobs in adjustent industry to those 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:58.600 that work heat very hard in the first wave of leoffs. 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:03.480 I still at RIPA. So even though we saw better 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:08.560 than expected number in terms of a DP payrolls this morning, UH, 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:14.480 another report from UH non Manufacturing sim Services suggested that 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:20.560 things that really not improving that well, and the employment 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:25.840 component of the survey was still at a very low level. 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:32.160 So that tells me that maybe this optimism about how 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:35.520 quickly the job market is going to improve is a 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:38.560 little bit permecure. You know what can I just say, Lena, 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:42.960 It reminds me of like using the um SPLC function 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:45.760 on the Bloomberg the supply chain analysis, Right, Like you 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:47.320 you look at a company, but you've got to look 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:49.320 who do they buy from? Who do they sell from? Right, 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.399 whenever there's a story, it's so much more, you know, 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:56.400 wide reaching than just one entity. And that's what this is, right. 0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.720