WEBVTT - The Politics of AI Are About to Explode

0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:08.680
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.

0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.280
<v Speaker 2>Hello and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast.

0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:23.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm Jill Wisenthal and I'm Tracy Alloway.

0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.800
<v Speaker 2>Tracy, something I've thought for a long time. I think

0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.680
<v Speaker 2>you might feel the same way. I'm glad we're not

0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:31.240
<v Speaker 2>like politics reporters.

0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:36.000
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, I cannot imagine what.

0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:36.920
<v Speaker 4>That job is.

0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.479
<v Speaker 2>I sometimes look at some of the stuff that are

0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.360
<v Speaker 2>colleagues in the political media have to report on and like,

0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:45.519
<v Speaker 2>look like a lot of it does touch what we do,

0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:47.800
<v Speaker 2>and they're obviously like there's no way to avoid it

0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:50.960
<v Speaker 2>all together. And obviously some of the stuff is big implications.

0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.720
<v Speaker 2>But by and large, you know, getting to look at

0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:55.960
<v Speaker 2>the numbers on the chart, or learning how you know

0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:59.400
<v Speaker 2>debt structures work, or learning how cardboard boxes work is

0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.279
<v Speaker 2>just much more, or is very satisfying to be relative too.

0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:06.200
<v Speaker 3>You prefer the lines over the lines coming from the

0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.639
<v Speaker 3>mouths of politicians, the lines over lines.

0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:09.880
<v Speaker 1>That's a good one, thank you.

0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:12.679
<v Speaker 2>But it's gonna fall apart, I think because I think

0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.000
<v Speaker 2>this AI story is such high stakes and there's so

0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:19.399
<v Speaker 2>many different policy questions, et cetera, whether it's related to

0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:24.080
<v Speaker 2>electricity prices or the possibility for labor to play displacement.

0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.000
<v Speaker 2>I think there's basically no way at this point that

0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:31.000
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty eight, maybe even twenty twenty six AI somehow

0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:32.960
<v Speaker 2>is going to be a big political story in a

0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:34.840
<v Speaker 2>way that it was not really in twenty twenty four.

0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:37.759
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think you're already seeing it in twenty twenty five, right,

0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:41.000
<v Speaker 3>So we had Sarah Fryar came out and said she

0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.639
<v Speaker 3>was talking about maybe getting a government backstop for AI

0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:45.840
<v Speaker 3>kapec spend this is.

0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:47.360
<v Speaker 1>The open AICFI yes.

0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.200
<v Speaker 3>And of course she rolled it back a little bit,

0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.040
<v Speaker 3>but it got up really but not really, and it

0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.720
<v Speaker 3>got everyone talking about, you know, what is the government's

0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.200
<v Speaker 3>involvement or obligations here. We know that jd Vance of

0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.240
<v Speaker 3>course has been supported by Peter Teel, who has very

0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:06.680
<v Speaker 3>strong and possibly idiosyncratic opinions when it comes to AI,

0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.840
<v Speaker 3>and of course there's the labor market aspect. There's also

0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.680
<v Speaker 3>electricity prices. Inflation is still a big political challenge for

0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:18.160
<v Speaker 3>the administration, and having all these data centers consume energy

0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.080
<v Speaker 3>is pushing prices up. And so I expect you'll hear

0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:21.919
<v Speaker 3>a lot about AI.

0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't think you know, we're recording this November thirteen.

0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.359
<v Speaker 2>I don't think we're probably not currently in a recession,

0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.359
<v Speaker 2>that the economy is not booming, but who knows exactly.

0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.560
<v Speaker 2>But you know, if you imagine a recession is going on,

0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.320
<v Speaker 2>and here's this technology where many of its biggest backers

0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.160
<v Speaker 2>talk about the ability to replace a lot of labor,

0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:43.680
<v Speaker 2>and you know, there's some debate, but and there's this

0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.919
<v Speaker 2>talk about place in greater strand on electricity, and as

0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.440
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned, there's the possibility that oh and maybe the

0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.520
<v Speaker 2>government should back I mean, this is a lot, this

0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:52.280
<v Speaker 2>is a powder keg.

0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:53.880
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, yeah, all right.

0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.880
<v Speaker 2>We have to learn more though about the different factions,

0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.680
<v Speaker 2>how it's going to play out politically, will AI have

0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:05.000
<v Speaker 2>any friends in Washington, DC? Whatsoever? How the different candidates

0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:08.359
<v Speaker 2>are positioning themselves Visa Vivas. So I wanted to talk

0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.120
<v Speaker 2>to one of the most plugged in guys I know

0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.840
<v Speaker 2>in DC, someone I've talked to for a very long time,

0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.560
<v Speaker 2>who's been talking about the politics of AI on his

0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:18.600
<v Speaker 2>own show for a long time. Literally the perfect guest

0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:20.680
<v Speaker 2>we're going to be speaking with Sager and Jetti. He

0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:25.560
<v Speaker 2>is the co host of Breaking Points, massive popular podcast,

0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.080
<v Speaker 2>knows a lot more about all the political dimensions than

0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:30.079
<v Speaker 2>we do so Sager, thank you so much for coming

0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:30.760
<v Speaker 2>on Odd Loaves.

0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.359
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for having me guys, longtime listener, and congratulations

0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:36.360
<v Speaker 1>on your ten year anniversary. Thank you so much.

0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.200
<v Speaker 2>You've been doing these segments on AI and they're blowing

0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:39.920
<v Speaker 2>up on YouTube.

0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.160
<v Speaker 1>Huh yeah, yeah, I mean, purely analytics wise, I have

0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:45.120
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of a test here for how the

0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.320
<v Speaker 1>people are feeling. And I think you summed it up

0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.760
<v Speaker 1>actually really well. Joe is in a time of economic procarity,

0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.720
<v Speaker 1>a very low consumer sentiment. When Dario and Elon and

0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Sam Altman just routinely go on podcasts in twenty twenty five, right,

0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.160
<v Speaker 1>and they're just like, yeah, we are going to replace you.

0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:04.280
<v Speaker 1>You don't have to work anymore. It's basically the embodiment

0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:07.160
<v Speaker 1>of that World Economic Forum meme about you will own

0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.640
<v Speaker 1>nothing and be happy. And so, I mean, I don't

0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.520
<v Speaker 1>think that they really understand the implications that a lot

0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.560
<v Speaker 1>of us are actually taking their words very seriously, and

0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:20.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm increasingly tapped into both, not only the data center backlash,

0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:21.920
<v Speaker 1>which is real. By the way, heat Map just did

0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:24.840
<v Speaker 1>a fantastic piece about the data center backlash, how it's

0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:30.400
<v Speaker 1>swallowing American politics. Georgia's power races very recently were massively

0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:35.000
<v Speaker 1>influenced by AI and data centers specifically. And I'm watching

0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:38.000
<v Speaker 1>this like fascinating. Horseshoe is really not the right word,

0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.880
<v Speaker 1>because horseshoe implies, you know, far right and far left.

0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.200
<v Speaker 1>I sent you a tweet earlier today, Joe, which kind

0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:44.960
<v Speaker 1>of brings it together, and it was like, if Tim

0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Miller of The Bulwark and Ryan Grimm, co host of Mine,

0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.919
<v Speaker 1>Far lefty, and then Matt Walsh are all agreeing on

0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:57.400
<v Speaker 1>attacking AI, with Jon Favreau of Pod Save America coming in,

0:04:57.560 --> 0:04:59.600
<v Speaker 1>We're not really a horseshoe, are we? Like we're the

0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:04.280
<v Speaker 1>entire spectrum of American politics all agreeing to stand in opposition.

0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.800
<v Speaker 1>I think to what fundamentally is about an issue where

0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.960
<v Speaker 1>we do not feel that we are in control of

0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:14.440
<v Speaker 1>this technology. We are not sold yet on the benefits.

0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:16.159
<v Speaker 1>And you guys talked about that recently in one of

0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.600
<v Speaker 1>your latest episodes about how AI is not even going

0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:20.400
<v Speaker 1>to make you rich, which is what was also one

0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.239
<v Speaker 1>of the promises that's kind of behind the entire pitch.

0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:27.760
<v Speaker 3>All right, So AI truly a bipartisan issue or bipartisan gripe.

0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.120
<v Speaker 3>But at the same time, we hear a lot of

0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:34.200
<v Speaker 3>politicians talk about the tech competition with China in particular, right,

0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.360
<v Speaker 3>And we have an episode that came out recently where

0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.560
<v Speaker 3>we talk about the existentialism around AI, this idea that

0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.920
<v Speaker 3>you have to win otherwise you're basically going to die

0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:49.599
<v Speaker 3>or fall into some sort of like modern dystopian poverty

0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:54.480
<v Speaker 3>forever and ever. Why is that rhetoric still out there

0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.800
<v Speaker 3>if at a local level everyone kind of agrees, like,

0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:00.640
<v Speaker 3>you know, this is bad for electricity prices, it's potentially

0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:01.800
<v Speaker 3>bad for the labor market.

0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, great question, And I think actually that might be

0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.239
<v Speaker 1>the politicians not really getting to the heart of the issue.

0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.600
<v Speaker 1>And we have to separate the AI technology and the

0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:14.040
<v Speaker 1>promises that were originally there, which we could probably strategically

0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.560
<v Speaker 1>agree like we need to maintain technological advancement, and then

0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.440
<v Speaker 1>the current way that it's structured, where it's basically in

0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.560
<v Speaker 1>the hands of three or four like super CEOs, and

0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.600
<v Speaker 1>everything's kind of seems rolled up fundamentally that you guys

0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:28.279
<v Speaker 1>are no going a lot more than I do. But

0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.680
<v Speaker 1>because of the cost of compute of data centers, specifically

0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:33.919
<v Speaker 1>like the Big tech companies are the ones that are

0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.560
<v Speaker 1>in control. So I think we should disaggregate like the

0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.839
<v Speaker 1>idea of AI itself as a technology potential, open source

0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.080
<v Speaker 1>and its usefulness from the way that it's actually being structured,

0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.200
<v Speaker 1>used and controlled. And I think that's really where a

0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.599
<v Speaker 1>lot of the pushback is. And also, though I would say,

0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, politicians, this may seem counterintuitive, but are often

0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.640
<v Speaker 1>the last people to know whenever something organically is pushing up.

0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:57.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm I guess on the forefront of a

0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.119
<v Speaker 1>YouTube show. I mean in ways like I have real

0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.960
<v Speaker 1>time analytics day to day about how people are feeling.

0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.320
<v Speaker 1>You only get a democratic kind of feel about this

0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:07.880
<v Speaker 1>once every two to four years, so it can take

0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.240
<v Speaker 1>a long time for this to bubble up through the

0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.160
<v Speaker 1>halls of Washington and kind of get rid of some

0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:14.760
<v Speaker 1>of the twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, you know more think

0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.840
<v Speaker 1>tank talking points that I think that you're describing their Tracy.

0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.840
<v Speaker 2>David Sachs, the co host of the All In podcast

0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:24.160
<v Speaker 2>and the White House's AI and cryptos are He says,

0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:28.200
<v Speaker 2>all the negativity is because of effective altruists and this

0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.440
<v Speaker 2>sort of movement in San Francisco that's pushing these doom scenarios.

0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Are all these people that you follow and talk to

0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:38.280
<v Speaker 2>or that follow you, are they all like reading EA substacks?

0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.680
<v Speaker 1>Is that where they're getting they have they have no

0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.520
<v Speaker 1>idea what EA even is. I've actually had to do

0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.600
<v Speaker 1>a few explainers on the show about effective altruism, you know,

0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:49.680
<v Speaker 1>and again the vast majority of my audience. I mean,

0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:51.840
<v Speaker 1>these are you know, Uber drivers and hotel these are

0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.240
<v Speaker 1>just normal people who are kind of like going about

0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.840
<v Speaker 1>their day to day life. David is absolutely wrong on

0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.480
<v Speaker 1>this issue. I mean, he may be structurally correct in

0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.840
<v Speaker 1>terms of the way that the rhetoric around AI that

0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.600
<v Speaker 1>causes a Dario and an Elon and others to like

0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.000
<v Speaker 1>go on shows and talk specifically about how you're not

0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.400
<v Speaker 1>gonna work, but you're gonna be okay, and this whole

0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.720
<v Speaker 1>idea that kind of backstops EA. But this is really

0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.360
<v Speaker 1>just like small d democratic like pushback, I really think,

0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:20.760
<v Speaker 1>and I also think an idea of really been rolling

0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:22.840
<v Speaker 1>around in my head. I'm curious for what you guys think.

0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Is that at the heart of the social media revolution,

0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:27.560
<v Speaker 1>we're some newer upstarts. You know, we never heard of

0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Mark Zuckerberg. We never heard of. You know, even if

0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.240
<v Speaker 1>we push back to Google's you know, these guys were

0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:36.520
<v Speaker 1>revolutionary entrepreneurs this time around. You know, they sold us

0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.240
<v Speaker 1>the promise of social media, and regardless of whether you

0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.360
<v Speaker 1>think it's good or not, we don't really have a

0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.439
<v Speaker 1>high level of societal trust in you know, the Arab

0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.079
<v Speaker 1>Spring and all that, And these are the very same

0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.840
<v Speaker 1>people now making these multi billion dollars in some cases

0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.880
<v Speaker 1>trillion dollar bets on AI and telling us to trust them.

0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.200
<v Speaker 1>So that's something that really belies that, you know, the

0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.760
<v Speaker 1>Mark Zuckerberg's of the AI space. Let's I don't know

0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Alexander Wang like he now works for Zuckerberg. Right, It's

0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.640
<v Speaker 1>just it's just fundamentally like a little bit different in

0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.520
<v Speaker 1>terms of who the key players are who are trying

0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.559
<v Speaker 1>to tell us about the beneficiary of the technology. And

0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.679
<v Speaker 1>I also think you know, they're no longer talking about

0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:16.360
<v Speaker 1>the things that they originally did, Like they were like,

0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:18.920
<v Speaker 1>we're going to cure cancer, and it's like, well, Sam,

0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:22.240
<v Speaker 1>why are you talking about erotica porn man, Because that's

0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.760
<v Speaker 1>that's a little bit different. It's like maybe the Internet

0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:26.440
<v Speaker 1>in chat ept is just going to be the exact

0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:28.920
<v Speaker 1>same as the Internet as it always has been, which

0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:32.040
<v Speaker 1>is basically increasing you know, user time in chat EPT.

0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Putting some ads in there just an a miserating experience,

0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.160
<v Speaker 1>which of course also has high levels of efficiency for

0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:38.800
<v Speaker 1>business use.

0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:40.680
<v Speaker 3>I was going to say exactly that. I'm not sure

0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.240
<v Speaker 3>it's that people don't trust the promise. It's that the

0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.600
<v Speaker 3>promise itself doesn't seem that enticing at the moment you

0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.040
<v Speaker 3>know you're going to lose your job and AI is

0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:50.720
<v Speaker 3>going to get to do all the fun stuff in

0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.840
<v Speaker 3>human life, like make pictures and movies.

0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:56.079
<v Speaker 2>And getting married to an AI model.

0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:01.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, exactly, Yeah, you're exactly right. I mean, I

0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.480
<v Speaker 1>thought the erotica thing from Sam was just the biggest tell.

0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:07.320
<v Speaker 1>I was like, wow, man, like, we're not talking about biomedical,

0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.719
<v Speaker 1>We're not talking about chat GPT curing cancer and all

0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:12.280
<v Speaker 1>of this. I mean, to be fair to him, he

0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.320
<v Speaker 1>has talked about the Open Eye Foundation, how they're going

0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:17.400
<v Speaker 1>to try and move things in that direction, but all

0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.720
<v Speaker 1>of the public consumption and everything being you know, Geared,

0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:22.720
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if either of you are NFL fans.

0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Have you noticed the number of chat GPT ads during

0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.640
<v Speaker 1>NFL game? Now, Oh, it's every game, and it's like

0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.000
<v Speaker 1>here chat gepts designing my workout, Chat gpt is designing

0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:36.080
<v Speaker 1>my vacation. Listen, no hate, but it's basically an extpedia ad. Right,

0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.319
<v Speaker 1>this is not cancer curing, it's Instagram for teens. It's

0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.720
<v Speaker 1>chat GPT, Microsoft Copilot. I believe ran an ad about

0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.360
<v Speaker 1>image generation. You know, the studio Ghibli thing. Yeah, I

0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:49.520
<v Speaker 1>mean that's that's not enterprise groundbreaking technology like this is

0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.800
<v Speaker 1>like you're burning data center or like you're increasing my

0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.600
<v Speaker 1>power bills so that people can do studio Ghibli recreates.

0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:58.880
<v Speaker 1>Like I'm out on this, you know, you know that

0:10:58.880 --> 0:10:59.720
<v Speaker 1>that's how I feel.

0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.920
<v Speaker 2>There are obviously a number of different concerns that people have,

0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.400
<v Speaker 2>electricity prices, labor, and we'll get into that. But you

0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.319
<v Speaker 2>said something interesting, which is that even you know, prior

0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:12.000
<v Speaker 2>to AI having come out, prior to late twenty twenty

0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.840
<v Speaker 2>two and chat shept burst on the scene, people were

0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.080
<v Speaker 2>already souring on these big techmo goals, you know, on

0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.839
<v Speaker 2>the right specifically, but also but really across you know,

0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.360
<v Speaker 2>there's concerned about the algorithm, what's it doing? Shadow banning?

0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Are certain things being labeled as fake news that aren't

0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.400
<v Speaker 2>fake news. You know, there was all the backlashing guys

0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.760
<v Speaker 2>YouTube for what videos they allowed during the pandemic, et cetera.

0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:38.000
<v Speaker 2>It feels like, just intuitively, there's no reason that all

0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:42.520
<v Speaker 2>of these concerns don't quickly map onto very cleanly, onto

0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:43.360
<v Speaker 2>AI concerns.

0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.000
<v Speaker 1>You're exactly right. I mean, it already has right and

0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:48.000
<v Speaker 1>in some of the early cases. You guys we've all

0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.679
<v Speaker 1>been around, We remember the early content about Facebook moderation,

0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.080
<v Speaker 1>remember all of that. I mean, look at what's happening

0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:57.600
<v Speaker 1>with chat, GPT, story after story about these suicides and

0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.360
<v Speaker 1>now erotica, and you know, they're saying the same level

0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.760
<v Speaker 1>of stuff that Facebook used to say, like oh, we have,

0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, controls in place. And look, I mean, at

0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.760
<v Speaker 1>some level, I do sympathize, like when a billion people

0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:09.600
<v Speaker 1>use your product, you know one percent of them might

0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.960
<v Speaker 1>be crazy and that's actually a really, really tough problem.

0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.679
<v Speaker 1>But also, you know, when your technology is being implicated

0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.760
<v Speaker 1>in all of these insane lawsuits and you have screenshots

0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:21.840
<v Speaker 1>and stuff that come out that make people go, WHOA,

0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know if I want my nineteen or

0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.920
<v Speaker 1>twenty year old like anywhere close to this. That really

0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.400
<v Speaker 1>because of the way that we all lived through those

0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:34.760
<v Speaker 1>past conversations show they track exactly onto Sam Altman and

0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.559
<v Speaker 1>Mark Zuckerberg. I mean, look at the stuff he's had

0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:40.080
<v Speaker 1>to deal with with the meta AI Instagram chatbots, you know,

0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.480
<v Speaker 1>for teenagers, and it's funny because they're trying to get

0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.120
<v Speaker 1>ahead of it to the NFL thing. I watch these

0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.319
<v Speaker 1>ads closely. Like one of the big ads right now

0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.960
<v Speaker 1>ad campaigns is Instagram for teens, which they're like, we

0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.480
<v Speaker 1>have safety stuff, you know, like that's kind of baked in,

0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.200
<v Speaker 1>and they're trying to get ahead of it because you know,

0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:58.960
<v Speaker 1>you don't run that ad if you don't have The

0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.640
<v Speaker 1>Anxious Generation as one of the top best selling books

0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.040
<v Speaker 1>in the United States, Like it's an upper middle class

0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.040
<v Speaker 1>like revolution now about people who are like against iPad

0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.720
<v Speaker 1>kiss right, And I think that's going to track very

0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.160
<v Speaker 1>very cleanly onto AI. There's no reason that I shouldn't.

0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.320
<v Speaker 3>How would you describe the relationship between you know, the

0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.800
<v Speaker 3>people running some of the biggest tech companies now versus

0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.520
<v Speaker 3>years past, because I remember, you know, we're talking a

0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.920
<v Speaker 3>little bit about some of the scandals and discussions about

0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:45.040
<v Speaker 3>political influence and what is actually shown on Facebook, and

0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.040
<v Speaker 3>I get the sense that once upon a time in

0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.920
<v Speaker 3>d C, people did kind of feel like big tech

0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:55.440
<v Speaker 3>was in control. Right, it was d C coming to big.

0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:56.360
<v Speaker 1>Tech for help.

0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.160
<v Speaker 3>And now I'm thinking back to the inauguration when we

0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.679
<v Speaker 3>had you know, people like Bezos and I think Zuckerberg

0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.560
<v Speaker 3>was there as well, Yes he was, and they're sort

0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.480
<v Speaker 3>of you know, I don't know how I saw one person.

0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:11.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm not going to describe it this way myself, but

0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.479
<v Speaker 3>I did see one person describe it as a hostage

0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.400
<v Speaker 3>situation where the big tech CEOs, you know, they're all

0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.840
<v Speaker 3>gathered in front of Trump and they seem kind of scared.

0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:25.280
<v Speaker 3>They're smiling, they're smiling, but not with their eyes. How

0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.920
<v Speaker 3>would you describe the relationship now between the administration and

0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:30.760
<v Speaker 3>you know, the big wigs of big tech.

0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a great question, because you know what I'm

0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.240
<v Speaker 1>talking about a small d democratic politics. Now you're just

0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.040
<v Speaker 1>asking about power politics. Our politics here is very different.

0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, David Sachs has navigated his position incredibly. Well,

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, Joe, there was a funny incident I think

0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:45.920
<v Speaker 1>I talked to you about this where I found a

0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.320
<v Speaker 1>snippet I think was a Financial Times piece and it

0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.760
<v Speaker 1>was just about it was like AI accounts for eighty

0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.520
<v Speaker 1>percent of stock gains and x percent of GDP in

0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.160
<v Speaker 1>terms of CAPEX, and David Sachs like retweeted it and

0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.120
<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh, so you think that's a good thing,

0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:00.160
<v Speaker 1>you know. I was like, I was like, oh, I

0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.760
<v Speaker 1>was like, okay, but you know that's actually if you're

0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.120
<v Speaker 1>in the Trump White House right now, you need this.

0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.760
<v Speaker 1>You know, you need the rally, you need the GDP

0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.720
<v Speaker 1>and the data center spend because that's what's propping up again.

0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.160
<v Speaker 1>You're the economist. Just from my listening to you and

0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.400
<v Speaker 1>reading Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, Financial Times and others like,

0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.520
<v Speaker 1>that's a main reason why Joe you were like, well,

0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't think we're in a recession. Derek Thompson has

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.440
<v Speaker 1>written very eloquently about this as well. Is just how

0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:28.000
<v Speaker 1>much of that spend currently accounts for why things seem okay.

0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.960
<v Speaker 1>So there is like a real alliance I think right

0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:36.640
<v Speaker 1>now between the Jensen's, David and even Sam Altman and others,

0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:38.480
<v Speaker 1>like they all come to the White House and announce

0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.640
<v Speaker 1>their crazy deals. For a reason, they get these awesome

0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.880
<v Speaker 1>press conferences from Trump. I mean there's the famous moment

0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.200
<v Speaker 1>where Zuck what he leads over to Trump, He's like,

0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:48.720
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know how much you wanted me to say.

0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, wow, okay, So you know you could I mean,

0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.640
<v Speaker 1>you could describe that as at heel. You could also

0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.240
<v Speaker 1>say he's got to bend over and kiss the ring

0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.680
<v Speaker 1>while also being able to basically just do whatever he wants.

0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.880
<v Speaker 1>So there is I think a very you know, alliance

0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.320
<v Speaker 1>of convenience right now, where the amount of money they're

0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.800
<v Speaker 1>pumping into the economy, the amount of stock value that

0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:11.120
<v Speaker 1>they're creating, is extremely beneficial to the Scott Bessens and

0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.120
<v Speaker 1>others of the world. Talking about MAGA economics.

0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk a little bit more about electoral politics specifically.

0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.120
<v Speaker 2>Ron DeSantis actually seems to be trying to make a

0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.960
<v Speaker 2>carveline for himself early on, even before the Sarah Friar comments,

0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.320
<v Speaker 2>actually saying no bailouts for AI companies, Like, what do

0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.640
<v Speaker 2>you see right now in terms of candidate positioning.

0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's it's all very early signaling. And that's actually

0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, I love this because usually one of the

0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.360
<v Speaker 1>things I hate most about politics recently it's all top down.

0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.040
<v Speaker 1>Do you have guys who are running for city council

0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.880
<v Speaker 1>talking about impeachment or something. It's like, dude, tell me

0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.360
<v Speaker 1>about the roads, you know, but actually this one is

0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.520
<v Speaker 1>really bottom up, you know, the data center stuff. It's Tucson.

0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.880
<v Speaker 1>Actually here in northern Virginia where I live, there's a

0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.880
<v Speaker 1>big comment and there's a lot of public controversy about

0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.600
<v Speaker 1>data centers. My state, Virginia, forty percent of our power

0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.960
<v Speaker 1>is consumed actually by data. Oregon is like thirty three percent,

0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:04.560
<v Speaker 1>I believe of power. There's been a lot of local

0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.760
<v Speaker 1>stuff and it hasn't really bubbled to the national level.

0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.320
<v Speaker 1>And I would say people here they care about money,

0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:12.919
<v Speaker 1>but they also care about electability. So there's an ocean

0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.040
<v Speaker 1>of money to be had if you're quote pro AI

0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.000
<v Speaker 1>or pro tech, but they'll always choose their own careers.

0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:19.960
<v Speaker 1>It went, and if you know, it does come down

0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.439
<v Speaker 1>to that, I haven't seen it bubble up yet. I

0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:24.560
<v Speaker 1>did see I'm not sure if you guys did that.

0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.560
<v Speaker 1>Bernie Sanders and a few of other progressives signed a

0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:31.280
<v Speaker 1>letter against data centers specifically, and that was the first

0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.679
<v Speaker 1>indication that I'm like, Ah, the staffers, they're paying attention, right,

0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:37.520
<v Speaker 1>they're listening to the pods. They're reading David Weigel's piece

0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.239
<v Speaker 1>about data center politics, and they're trying to operationalize that

0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:45.159
<v Speaker 1>into something at the national level. You're exactly right in

0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.520
<v Speaker 1>terms of dron desantists tried to pick that lane about bailout,

0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.159
<v Speaker 1>and that actually gets to something very recently where you

0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.399
<v Speaker 1>talked about Sarah's comments. I mean, we did a segment

0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:55.240
<v Speaker 1>about that, and it was huge about the open AI

0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:58.040
<v Speaker 1>bail out because people can feel it. They're like, I've

0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.640
<v Speaker 1>seen this movie before. They're you know, you know that. Yeah,

0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:02.920
<v Speaker 1>they make twenty billion, but they've got seventy five billion

0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.399
<v Speaker 1>in projected losses to twenty twenty eight. They've got a

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.960
<v Speaker 1>trillion dollar in committed spend. You know, the pe ratios

0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.560
<v Speaker 1>and all this are so crazy, and if it doesn't

0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.120
<v Speaker 1>work out, they're going to say, oh, well, we need

0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:15.680
<v Speaker 1>you to bail us out, or we need you to

0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:17.800
<v Speaker 1>build the data centers for us and take all the

0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.960
<v Speaker 1>most expensive part of our business out. They are inherently

0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.520
<v Speaker 1>distrustful already of the numbers, and I think this is

0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.600
<v Speaker 1>very American, like you don't want to be controlled. And

0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.159
<v Speaker 1>the AI people tell us about how this is the

0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.200
<v Speaker 1>second Industrial Revolution and it's like, well, you know, then

0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.639
<v Speaker 1>we should probably look to the politics of the previous

0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.840
<v Speaker 1>industrial revolutions. You know, the railroad obviously, like had a

0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.560
<v Speaker 1>tremendous benefit. It doesn't take a week or it took

0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:43.679
<v Speaker 1>a week to go to California instead of three months.

0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.359
<v Speaker 1>That's awesome. But you know, very quickly in the eighteen

0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:50.159
<v Speaker 1>eighties and eighteen nineties Titanic, you know, uprisings in the

0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.439
<v Speaker 1>Midwest of farmers feeling like they're being controlled and anti

0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.920
<v Speaker 1>railroad politicians were some of the original like anti industrial

0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:00.840
<v Speaker 1>populace in Washington, even though originally everybody he was really sold.

0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.280
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know that the politicians.

0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.399
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, there definitely were. They were all throughout

0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:08.960
<v Speaker 1>the eighteen nineties, some of the original populist party. And

0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:10.840
<v Speaker 1>you look at what that all was. A lot of

0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:12.640
<v Speaker 1>it was about the railroad. And you know, I mean

0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.680
<v Speaker 1>there's legendary stories Texas where you and I are from,

0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Joe White, Patman, I'd have to write right back. Yeah.

0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.919
<v Speaker 1>There were like people like Sam Rayburn actually famously the

0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.760
<v Speaker 1>very anti railroad. He wouldn't take the free railroad passes.

0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.119
<v Speaker 1>These were like big, big stories all the way up

0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.880
<v Speaker 1>until the nineteen twenties, and so and so I see

0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.720
<v Speaker 1>a very similar kind of track, except though that I'm

0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.880
<v Speaker 1>not so sure that the socialized benefits will be as

0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:39.560
<v Speaker 1>good as the railroad, because the railroad, at the end

0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:41.000
<v Speaker 1>of the day, it was awesome. I could go to

0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.119
<v Speaker 1>California in a week. I don't have to take the

0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.160
<v Speaker 1>stagecoach or the Oregon Trail or whatever. This time around,

0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:47.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, listen, I don't know if you guys have

0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.880
<v Speaker 1>used Sora. Sorry, Like, it's not worth the power bills.

0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:51.560
<v Speaker 1>It's not worth it.

0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.520
<v Speaker 2>Tracy's insisting that I correct that I'm not really a

0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:56.360
<v Speaker 2>real Texan. I only went to college there.

0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.640
<v Speaker 1>He's a photo true. Okay, okay, all right.

0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.920
<v Speaker 3>This is important to me as someone with a dad

0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:06.359
<v Speaker 3>who was raised in Dallas and Lancaster. Anyway, I was

0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:08.600
<v Speaker 3>just thinking, you know, we were talking about populism in

0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.520
<v Speaker 3>the eighteen hundreds, and did you ever see the interpretations

0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:14.040
<v Speaker 3>of the Wizard of oz as.

0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:20.320
<v Speaker 4>Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was farmers who's like wanted

0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.159
<v Speaker 4>to move a silver backed currency, and a lot of

0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:25.119
<v Speaker 4>it supposedly was tied to populism.

0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.000
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, I wanted to go back to power politics for

0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.959
<v Speaker 3>one second, and ask what the heck JD. Evans is

0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.000
<v Speaker 3>going to do here, because it's not impossible that he

0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:40.320
<v Speaker 3>is the chosen successor to Trump in whatever timeframe, and

0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:44.200
<v Speaker 3>in that case, he's sort of stuck between I guess

0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.240
<v Speaker 3>two peas here, populism and Peter Teel.

0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, you know, it's a lot more peas than

0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:55.480
<v Speaker 1>that actually, because it's popularism, it's Trump, it's Tea. I mean,

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:57.679
<v Speaker 1>you know, the Teal thing. I've always thought it was

0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:02.120
<v Speaker 1>frankly a little bit overstated terms of influence. But regardless,

0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.280
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't say more like Teal sphere or Teal thought

0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:07.720
<v Speaker 1>if that makes sense. Like, as you guys know, probably

0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:09.399
<v Speaker 1>most of the people listening to this, like there's an

0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.840
<v Speaker 1>entire like ecosystem around like zero you know, zero to

0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:15.760
<v Speaker 1>one posting and all of that within tech anyway, So

0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:18.320
<v Speaker 1>that sphere, let's call it, right tech, I guess, you know,

0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:21.760
<v Speaker 1>to be extremely reductive, that sphere is really the one

0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.359
<v Speaker 1>which currently embodies, you know, really a lot of this

0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:28.679
<v Speaker 1>more pro AI direction. Let's say, Palenteer, Alex KRP and others.

0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:31.240
<v Speaker 1>But even he is fascinating, right because he's pro AI,

0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:33.440
<v Speaker 1>but only for Palenteer, and he thinks the rest of

0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:37.080
<v Speaker 1>this up. So like these things do break down. But Jad,

0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:39.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, look, he's gonna be in a tough position

0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.159
<v Speaker 1>as well because he also it's not exactly like in

0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:45.480
<v Speaker 1>repudiate the Trump administration. I actually think it's one of

0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:48.359
<v Speaker 1>his biggest weaknesses going into twenty twenty eight. I mean,

0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:51.080
<v Speaker 1>you guys will remember they savaged Kamala for the what

0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:54.479
<v Speaker 1>would you do different conversation from Biden? I mean, how

0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:56.840
<v Speaker 1>do you answer that when Donald Trump is still alive

0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.120
<v Speaker 1>and you about to run. You know you're gonna get

0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:01.920
<v Speaker 1>destroyed if you say the truth. And I mean, look,

0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:04.159
<v Speaker 1>I don't know where things are gonna end up. Trump

0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:07.680
<v Speaker 1>is basically trending in Biden territory right now in terms

0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:09.960
<v Speaker 1>of his approval ratings. And so look, you know, we

0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:12.520
<v Speaker 1>saw that movie, and in my opinion, when you start

0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:16.080
<v Speaker 1>chart posting about how the economy is actually good, you're cooked.

0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:19.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, to borrow a phrase from the youth about politics,

0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:23.320
<v Speaker 1>but yeah, you're the power politics of it are really

0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:25.439
<v Speaker 1>I think trepidacious. So I think for a lot of

0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.280
<v Speaker 1>the right because they don't want to get away from

0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:30.840
<v Speaker 1>Elon and from his money. Right, Elon is very very

0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:34.920
<v Speaker 1>powerful center. I think in Republican politics. XAI. He's got

0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:37.240
<v Speaker 1>this huge new data center project. I'm sure you guys

0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:39.840
<v Speaker 1>have read or seen something about that. He's probably going

0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:43.359
<v Speaker 1>to demand, you know, certain things. And at the same time,

0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:45.520
<v Speaker 1>you're i mean a huge amount of the right wing

0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:50.040
<v Speaker 1>commentariot who would probably be more jd vance ideologically position

0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.200
<v Speaker 1>let's say, like the Matt Walsh's of the world, that

0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:54.479
<v Speaker 1>Tucker Carlson's of the world. These were were straight up

0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:57.439
<v Speaker 1>on record as this is, you know, demonic. We need

0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:00.640
<v Speaker 1>to stand for humanity, and it's going to be very tough.

0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:03.199
<v Speaker 1>I actually think it might be the single toughest position

0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:06.320
<v Speaker 1>that you'll have to navigate in the campaign. And I

0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:09.200
<v Speaker 1>think that the left, the political left in particular, they

0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:11.720
<v Speaker 1>are looking at this data center stuff. They are all

0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:13.880
<v Speaker 1>over it. More Perfect Union, which is one of those

0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:17.600
<v Speaker 1>it's like a Bernie aligned institution. They have been all

0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:20.720
<v Speaker 1>over this issue. So I'm watching the populace left really

0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:23.440
<v Speaker 1>really grab onto it. And I think a democratic position

0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:25.639
<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty eight is going to come down hard

0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:29.399
<v Speaker 1>in terms of either regulation or protecting Americans, you know,

0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.680
<v Speaker 1>reforming power. However, it's going to be there. They are

0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:34.359
<v Speaker 1>going to be there and the right is going to

0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:35.200
<v Speaker 1>have a very tough time.

0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:38.040
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting because, like even ten years ago, we thought

0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:41.720
<v Speaker 2>of Silicon Valley as like basically being democratic aligned, right

0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:45.159
<v Speaker 2>like most big tech executives. And I still think, you know,

0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:48.080
<v Speaker 2>most people in San Francisco obviously vote Democrat, including a

0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:51.000
<v Speaker 2>lot of high people at these tech companies. But there's

0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.800
<v Speaker 2>this well known shift that everyone talks about and they've

0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:56.960
<v Speaker 2>got much more comfortable. But it feels like to me

0:23:57.560 --> 0:23:59.959
<v Speaker 2>they could you know, they've moved, they've switched asides to

0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:01.320
<v Speaker 2>like they could.

0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:03.959
<v Speaker 1>Kind of end up friendless and all this. Oh, I

0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:07.560
<v Speaker 1>mean I already I think that they massively overplayed their

0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:10.399
<v Speaker 1>hand with DOGE. And I mean, you know, look, I

0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:12.760
<v Speaker 1>for being honest, just look at the stats. Like it's

0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:15.320
<v Speaker 1>a total failure in terms of its stated project. You

0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:18.480
<v Speaker 1>could debate whether USA I D or whatever is bad.

0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:21.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Treasury data is public, guys, you can go

0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:23.880
<v Speaker 1>read it for yourself in terms of spending. So that's

0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:26.360
<v Speaker 1>one thing. But two, you're exactly right, Joe in terms

0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:28.760
<v Speaker 1>of the fair weather friend nature of all of this

0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:30.440
<v Speaker 1>is that you know, a in terms of the way

0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:32.920
<v Speaker 1>that a lot of the democratic base has been radicalized

0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:35.359
<v Speaker 1>at this point, they're never going back. And then in

0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:37.159
<v Speaker 1>the right wing coalition, you know, I don't want to

0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:42.120
<v Speaker 1>go too deep in the weeds here, but like, yeah,

0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:44.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean the tech the tech right. Let's take this

0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:47.200
<v Speaker 1>H one B thing for example. This is like a huge,

0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:50.520
<v Speaker 1>huge split right now in the political right because a

0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:52.959
<v Speaker 1>lot of these tech guys are very pro H one B.

0:24:53.320 --> 0:24:55.679
<v Speaker 1>You know, Elon famously said he would fight to the

0:24:55.760 --> 0:24:58.760
<v Speaker 1>death over the issue of H one B. This was

0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:01.560
<v Speaker 1>during the whole fight, you know, in December before Trump

0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:04.080
<v Speaker 1>took office, and Trump ultimately he just did an interview

0:25:04.119 --> 0:25:05.960
<v Speaker 1>a few days ago where he embraced H one B,

0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:08.600
<v Speaker 1>say actually, we need more talent. But there's a lot

0:25:08.680 --> 0:25:12.040
<v Speaker 1>of the activist political right which is vary against that

0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:15.600
<v Speaker 1>and increasingly are blaming a lot of these tech right

0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:19.800
<v Speaker 1>politicians for hijacking the administration. So that's why, you know,

0:25:19.880 --> 0:25:22.720
<v Speaker 1>for them, I would be very careful as to how

0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:25.600
<v Speaker 1>exactly you know they're going to navigate. There's also I mean,

0:25:25.600 --> 0:25:28.199
<v Speaker 1>this breaks on foreign policy lines as well, because a

0:25:28.280 --> 0:25:31.720
<v Speaker 1>subset of the tech right is also very pro Israel,

0:25:31.760 --> 0:25:34.200
<v Speaker 1>which is also a very divisive issue. I don't want

0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:36.359
<v Speaker 1>to drag that into this, but only to say, like

0:25:36.640 --> 0:25:39.919
<v Speaker 1>Joe Lonsdale, Sean Maguire, these are you know, very very

0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:43.680
<v Speaker 1>rich people, very activated in the current you know, cohort

0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:47.160
<v Speaker 1>of MAGA, but not exactly like beloved. Let's say amongst

0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:49.800
<v Speaker 1>a different segment you know, of the American right. And

0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:53.280
<v Speaker 1>so I could see a huge clash coming to the

0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:55.840
<v Speaker 1>front with that. And that's another issue I would say,

0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:57.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, for a JD. Vance is like, I'm sure

0:25:57.760 --> 0:25:59.960
<v Speaker 1>he's friendly with them, and that's easy when Trump is

0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:03.399
<v Speaker 1>papering over all these coalitional politics. But that's going to

0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:06.520
<v Speaker 1>break out into the open like nobody's business in a primary,

0:26:06.760 --> 0:26:08.719
<v Speaker 1>and I could see it. I could see them becoming

0:26:08.720 --> 0:26:12.080
<v Speaker 1>friendless quickly because again, I mean, look, I could be wrong.

0:26:12.480 --> 0:26:14.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that that's where the base is. I

0:26:14.680 --> 0:26:17.840
<v Speaker 1>really don't, just because if we look at the math

0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:21.199
<v Speaker 1>of who are the people increasingly identifying as MAGA or

0:26:21.440 --> 0:26:24.280
<v Speaker 1>Republican Like, people making less than one hundred thousand dollars

0:26:24.280 --> 0:26:26.840
<v Speaker 1>a year are not going to be cheering on, you know,

0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:29.160
<v Speaker 1>multi billionaires telling them that they don't have to work,

0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:31.359
<v Speaker 1>that they're not gonna work anymore, not that they don't

0:26:31.359 --> 0:26:34.440
<v Speaker 1>have to work anymore. They're not going to work anymore more,

0:26:34.480 --> 0:26:37.240
<v Speaker 1>blue collar types. I mean, you know the driverless you know,

0:26:37.280 --> 0:26:40.919
<v Speaker 1>the driverless trucks issue. Like the Teamsters president, I had

0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:44.480
<v Speaker 1>him on my show, just going hard, Sean O'Brien, famously

0:26:44.520 --> 0:26:47.879
<v Speaker 1>the only union president to not endorse in the election.

0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:50.840
<v Speaker 1>Much more Trump friendly, So that part of the coalition

0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:52.600
<v Speaker 1>is gonna have something to say, I think. Yeah.

0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:55.040
<v Speaker 3>I feel like we saw some of the sensitivity burst

0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:57.840
<v Speaker 3>into the open with the h one B Visa comments

0:26:58.240 --> 0:27:01.240
<v Speaker 3>when Trump was like, we don't have enough talent in America. Yeah,

0:27:01.440 --> 0:27:04.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean Twitter slash x just exploded.

0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:06.040
<v Speaker 2>I ask you to take all the jobs and the

0:27:06.119 --> 0:27:09.080
<v Speaker 2>jobs that will be left. We're also going to Yeah, yeah,

0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:11.479
<v Speaker 2>that's right. Whatever jobs are left, they'll be in India.

0:27:11.920 --> 0:27:13.639
<v Speaker 2>So you're like, I don't know about that.

0:27:13.960 --> 0:27:16.080
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So I feel like I know the answer to

0:27:16.119 --> 0:27:19.320
<v Speaker 3>this question. But if a lot of people are going

0:27:19.359 --> 0:27:23.119
<v Speaker 3>to be unable to work, is there anyone in DC

0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:26.919
<v Speaker 3>or elsewhere who is talking about universal basic income?

0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Andrew Yang I just Adam on the show. He's doing

0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:33.639
<v Speaker 1>the biggest victory lap over all of this. You know,

0:27:33.760 --> 0:27:37.080
<v Speaker 1>I have not seen it. I know even Bernie famously,

0:27:37.119 --> 0:27:39.320
<v Speaker 1>I think it's against UBI. I have to go back

0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:41.880
<v Speaker 1>and check. He's more of a federal jobs guarantee guy,

0:27:41.880 --> 0:27:44.880
<v Speaker 1>and that's the most most out there. Like I said,

0:27:44.920 --> 0:27:48.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean to be honest covering politics now, I've only

0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:51.360
<v Speaker 1>watched them play catch up. I mean famously, I've talked

0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:54.040
<v Speaker 1>with Jack Dorsey and others about this. But like those

0:27:54.080 --> 0:27:57.159
<v Speaker 1>famous hearings where they'd be like, so, how does Facebook,

0:27:57.240 --> 0:27:59.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, make money? And you're like, oh my god, man,

0:27:59.880 --> 0:28:02.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, in front of these hearings when the congressmen

0:28:02.480 --> 0:28:05.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, don't even know the most basic facets, or

0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:07.480
<v Speaker 1>they'll be asking stuff like why do my campaign emails

0:28:07.520 --> 0:28:11.359
<v Speaker 1>get stuck in gmails? Filters? Like these are real questions

0:28:11.400 --> 0:28:14.159
<v Speaker 1>that were asked in Friday, the United States senator in

0:28:14.200 --> 0:28:16.800
<v Speaker 1>the Congress. So I don't have a lot of faith

0:28:16.960 --> 0:28:20.760
<v Speaker 1>that there are a lot of very forward facing thinkers

0:28:21.040 --> 0:28:23.639
<v Speaker 1>around this issue, and in particular, I mean I know

0:28:23.760 --> 0:28:26.240
<v Speaker 1>that to be the case. It could change in twenty

0:28:26.280 --> 0:28:29.080
<v Speaker 1>twenty six. I think a dem you know, tea party

0:28:29.160 --> 0:28:31.879
<v Speaker 1>type wave is coming. There might be some interesting candidates

0:28:31.960 --> 0:28:34.040
<v Speaker 1>that start to say things like that, and maybe on

0:28:34.080 --> 0:28:35.760
<v Speaker 1>the Republican side as well. I'd like to see it.

0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:54.000
<v Speaker 2>We've been talking a lot about the right, the Republicans.

0:28:54.240 --> 0:28:56.160
<v Speaker 2>I actually really like a lot of these guys. But

0:28:56.200 --> 0:28:57.960
<v Speaker 2>when I think about the other side of the aisle

0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:00.560
<v Speaker 2>and I think about some of these tensions, as you mentioned,

0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:02.560
<v Speaker 2>more perfect union and some of the more you know,

0:29:02.640 --> 0:29:06.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of populous left things, I'm not very bullish on

0:29:06.800 --> 0:29:11.480
<v Speaker 2>the abundance Dems right now, and how that sort of

0:29:11.560 --> 0:29:14.360
<v Speaker 2>faction that would like to sort of take the party

0:29:14.400 --> 0:29:17.240
<v Speaker 2>in a sort of more you know, I guess, I

0:29:17.240 --> 0:29:21.520
<v Speaker 2>don't know, centrist, but a centrist moderate liberal realm. Yeah,

0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:24.000
<v Speaker 2>whatever it is. I don't know how you feel. Give

0:29:24.040 --> 0:29:26.000
<v Speaker 2>us your sort of your view on the other side

0:29:26.000 --> 0:29:27.160
<v Speaker 2>of the aisle, definitely.

0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:30.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean the interesting thing about the whole abundance thing

0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:33.800
<v Speaker 1>and all of that is, I think, you know what

0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:37.240
<v Speaker 1>it misses is the theory of control. And you know,

0:29:37.280 --> 0:29:39.680
<v Speaker 1>it's like more housing awesome, you know, but it doesn't

0:29:39.680 --> 0:29:42.239
<v Speaker 1>get to ownership, I guess, and the feeling of like

0:29:42.560 --> 0:29:45.400
<v Speaker 1>the ability to control your own destiny, which I think

0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:49.240
<v Speaker 1>is really baked into the American spirit and the American project.

0:29:49.480 --> 0:29:51.440
<v Speaker 1>And you know, you see stuff like this about debates

0:29:51.480 --> 0:29:54.240
<v Speaker 1>around housing and you know, they'll kind of ridicule this

0:29:54.360 --> 0:29:57.360
<v Speaker 1>idea about corporate ownership, and you know, I'm not going

0:29:57.440 --> 0:29:59.720
<v Speaker 1>to get into the weeds about whether that's even true

0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:02.040
<v Speaker 1>or not. I know there's a lot of controversy, but

0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:05.800
<v Speaker 1>the idea is definitely very popular, right, you know, for

0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:08.560
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people. And the reason why is fundamentally,

0:30:08.600 --> 0:30:11.640
<v Speaker 1>they're like, I'm being priced out of my ability to

0:30:11.840 --> 0:30:14.160
<v Speaker 1>buy a home. Like it really, what it is about

0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:18.720
<v Speaker 1>is about you know, the individuality of reclaiming your own destiny.

0:30:18.760 --> 0:30:21.760
<v Speaker 1>And that's why that's why those two things are very linked.

0:30:21.800 --> 0:30:24.120
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's about power. You know, to kind of

0:30:24.120 --> 0:30:27.000
<v Speaker 1>bring back to Tracy's question earlier about you know, beating China,

0:30:27.360 --> 0:30:30.680
<v Speaker 1>et cetera, it's the technology is not the same as

0:30:30.720 --> 0:30:33.240
<v Speaker 1>the companies that are in charge. And when you see

0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:38.400
<v Speaker 1>these swelling valuations and talks of bailouts and the encroachment

0:30:38.480 --> 0:30:40.520
<v Speaker 1>into your daily life or your office, and you see

0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:44.880
<v Speaker 1>headlines about firing workers, you know, on the promise of AI.

0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:48.640
<v Speaker 1>None of this goes to the heart about democratic input.

0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:50.680
<v Speaker 1>You know, I was thinking about that in terms of

0:30:50.720 --> 0:30:53.680
<v Speaker 1>the chatchypt suicide question, which I know is fringe from

0:30:53.720 --> 0:30:55.680
<v Speaker 1>their point of view, but I think it's important if

0:30:55.680 --> 0:30:58.560
<v Speaker 1>billions of people are going to use your technology. And

0:30:58.640 --> 0:31:01.320
<v Speaker 1>Sam famously in a Tucker car else an interview, was like, well,

0:31:01.560 --> 0:31:04.320
<v Speaker 1>in a country where assistant suicide is legal, like, would

0:31:04.360 --> 0:31:08.120
<v Speaker 1>you direct people to those resources? He effectively said yes,

0:31:08.160 --> 0:31:10.120
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, oh my god, I mean, then

0:31:10.280 --> 0:31:14.000
<v Speaker 1>you know chat ept's mental health standards. In my opinion,

0:31:14.080 --> 0:31:16.840
<v Speaker 1>like there needs to be some like there needs to

0:31:16.840 --> 0:31:18.920
<v Speaker 1>be stuff hashed out in the US Congress and at

0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:21.640
<v Speaker 1>the state and the local level where like we all

0:31:21.680 --> 0:31:25.680
<v Speaker 1>agree on what so called guardrails and acceptable norms are.

0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:27.720
<v Speaker 1>And I can't just be leaving it to Sam Altman.

0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:30.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, I think you know, no offense to that guy.

0:31:30.640 --> 0:31:32.680
<v Speaker 1>It's not even about him, it's about everybody. No, but

0:31:32.840 --> 0:31:35.360
<v Speaker 1>no one person should have that immense amount of power

0:31:35.520 --> 0:31:38.760
<v Speaker 1>which is going to affect millions and millions amow. Yeah.

0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:41.640
<v Speaker 3>And it just seems incredibly difficult to have any democratic

0:31:41.680 --> 0:31:44.480
<v Speaker 3>input into what are effectively black boxes, right and have

0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:48.280
<v Speaker 3>always been black boxes. I have a very basic question,

0:31:48.600 --> 0:31:54.000
<v Speaker 3>but is anyone in DC using AI in an interesting way?

0:31:54.560 --> 0:31:57.719
<v Speaker 3>I imagine you know, people are probably editing policy papers

0:31:57.800 --> 0:32:00.320
<v Speaker 3>or whatever with it and doing some research, but is

0:32:00.360 --> 0:32:04.600
<v Speaker 3>anyone I don't know creating lots of AI driven bots

0:32:04.640 --> 0:32:07.760
<v Speaker 3>to sway conversations, or I don't know, come up with

0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:10.320
<v Speaker 3>some new system of campaign finance. Who knows.

0:32:10.400 --> 0:32:13.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm not privy to any of this secret stuff like you.

0:32:13.440 --> 0:32:16.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean that kind of either, Just to be clear,

0:32:17.240 --> 0:32:19.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean it kind of begs the question is is

0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:21.920
<v Speaker 1>anything interesting being done with A right? You know what

0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:24.800
<v Speaker 1>you just said of editing papers? Everybody's editing papers great,

0:32:24.960 --> 0:32:27.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, awesome. A friend of mine, John Coogan, I'm

0:32:27.160 --> 0:32:29.840
<v Speaker 1>sure you guys know, Yeah, yeah, I think John had

0:32:29.880 --> 0:32:32.680
<v Speaker 1>a great analogy to AI. He was like, I kind

0:32:32.680 --> 0:32:34.400
<v Speaker 1>of think it'll be like the credit card, you know,

0:32:34.440 --> 0:32:38.400
<v Speaker 1>like frictionless payments. It enabled an entire new ecosystem. We

0:32:38.440 --> 0:32:40.360
<v Speaker 1>could build wealth. It'll make your life like a little

0:32:40.360 --> 0:32:42.840
<v Speaker 1>bit better, you know, and all that. I think that's

0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:46.520
<v Speaker 1>basically the technology, right, you know, summarizing editing. It's a

0:32:46.560 --> 0:32:48.840
<v Speaker 1>better Google. That's cool and all that. But I haven't

0:32:48.920 --> 0:32:52.040
<v Speaker 1>yet seen like some mass sophisticated thing. I mean, to

0:32:52.080 --> 0:32:54.000
<v Speaker 1>be honest, you know, most people in DC are probably

0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:59.320
<v Speaker 1>using AI for editing purposes, research, to check things, what else?

0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:02.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean, image generation to slander your political opponents. That's

0:33:02.680 --> 0:33:04.600
<v Speaker 1>a pretty big one. We use it for thumbnails for

0:33:04.640 --> 0:33:07.360
<v Speaker 1>our YouTube videos. You know, Like, I guess that's cool,

0:33:07.720 --> 0:33:09.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, I mean, yeah, it's nice. It's definitely nice.

0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:11.920
<v Speaker 1>It's not that I don't have. I also have photoshop

0:33:11.960 --> 0:33:13.840
<v Speaker 1>guys who worked for me, so you know, they use

0:33:13.920 --> 0:33:15.520
<v Speaker 1>it a little bit every once in a while. But

0:33:15.560 --> 0:33:17.880
<v Speaker 1>I haven't seen anything truly novel. I really have it.

0:33:18.160 --> 0:33:21.560
<v Speaker 2>You know, in terms of elected officials who maybe a

0:33:21.600 --> 0:33:23.800
<v Speaker 2>few years ago this would have been a surprise, but

0:33:23.920 --> 0:33:29.320
<v Speaker 2>who seemed to have an very good intuitions about things mergery,

0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:32.080
<v Speaker 2>Taylor Green, one of these names. Was like, Oh, I'm like,

0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:34.880
<v Speaker 2>she seems savvy in a way that maybe people wouldn't

0:33:34.880 --> 0:33:36.640
<v Speaker 2>have guessed. Has she been talking about AI at all?

0:33:37.480 --> 0:33:40.840
<v Speaker 1>You know, I haven't looked. Definitely, I haven't seen anything

0:33:40.920 --> 0:33:44.440
<v Speaker 1>in particular. I can almost guess where she would land them. Yeah,

0:33:44.520 --> 0:33:47.400
<v Speaker 1>especially look, her own home state is now ground zero

0:33:47.680 --> 0:33:49.960
<v Speaker 1>for a statewide referendum. Again, talk to us about that.

0:33:50.000 --> 0:33:51.719
<v Speaker 1>We haven't actually told us. We haven't.

0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:54.880
<v Speaker 2>This Georgia election, I know, it was like kind of powers,

0:33:54.960 --> 0:33:57.680
<v Speaker 2>elect empowers and electricity stuff. It's kind of directly on

0:33:57.720 --> 0:33:58.360
<v Speaker 2>the ballot.

0:33:58.160 --> 0:34:02.760
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, two races literally about power. Both made Democratic candidates,

0:34:02.760 --> 0:34:05.760
<v Speaker 1>they made data centers power usage like a central part

0:34:05.840 --> 0:34:08.840
<v Speaker 1>of their campaign, and they won a huge victory. I

0:34:08.840 --> 0:34:11.280
<v Speaker 1>don't want to ascribe the entire thing. Let's be honest.

0:34:11.280 --> 0:34:14.719
<v Speaker 1>In a national environment, a lot of people are decrets, right,

0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:16.680
<v Speaker 1>but it was it was an awesome night for Democrats. Right.

0:34:16.960 --> 0:34:19.560
<v Speaker 1>But look, I mean in a certain way, like those

0:34:19.800 --> 0:34:24.560
<v Speaker 1>arguments still are really finding a lot of salience because

0:34:24.920 --> 0:34:28.560
<v Speaker 1>you know these stories about power going up, and look,

0:34:28.640 --> 0:34:32.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean everybody remembers, you know, the walmartization conversation, the

0:34:32.200 --> 0:34:36.240
<v Speaker 1>Amazon warehouse conversation. Nobody loves this idea of these big

0:34:36.280 --> 0:34:40.440
<v Speaker 1>companies coming in buying land, using a ton of resources,

0:34:40.600 --> 0:34:44.040
<v Speaker 1>driving prices up. Nobody buys the BS anymore. About how

0:34:44.040 --> 0:34:46.239
<v Speaker 1>this is going to create a ton of jobs. I mean,

0:34:46.280 --> 0:34:49.600
<v Speaker 1>definitely some construction jobs. But nobody's really under the illusion.

0:34:49.719 --> 0:34:52.160
<v Speaker 1>Everybody knows tech is a power law business. You know,

0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:53.960
<v Speaker 1>the vast majority of the wealth is going to flow

0:34:54.080 --> 0:34:56.120
<v Speaker 1>up to the top of the CEO and the networks

0:34:56.160 --> 0:34:58.640
<v Speaker 1>of Zuck and Elon and the rest of these people.

0:34:58.719 --> 0:35:02.560
<v Speaker 1>So that's where politics of this really matter. And you know,

0:35:02.600 --> 0:35:04.480
<v Speaker 1>heat map I shouted them out They wrote a great

0:35:04.480 --> 0:35:08.120
<v Speaker 1>piece about the data center backlashes swallowing American politics, and

0:35:08.160 --> 0:35:10.000
<v Speaker 1>you should go read it just to even look at polling,

0:35:10.120 --> 0:35:13.040
<v Speaker 1>not just about Georgia. I mean, this is bipartisan at

0:35:13.080 --> 0:35:16.240
<v Speaker 1>every level. And younger generations are the most anti data center,

0:35:16.560 --> 0:35:20.160
<v Speaker 1>anti AI kind of politics. And I mean, look, they're suffering.

0:35:20.239 --> 0:35:22.399
<v Speaker 1>I mean, they have a high unemployment rate right now.

0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:24.520
<v Speaker 1>A lot of them either blame AI or look at

0:35:24.520 --> 0:35:26.560
<v Speaker 1>AI is one of the reasons why they're having a

0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:28.680
<v Speaker 1>tough time in the labor market. And you know, it

0:35:28.719 --> 0:35:31.759
<v Speaker 1>doesn't help. Whenever you see Wall Street Journal articles just

0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:35.399
<v Speaker 1>about white collar companies increasingly bet on more productivity out

0:35:35.400 --> 0:35:38.960
<v Speaker 1>of existing workforce, like this stuff confirmed. It both confirms

0:35:39.000 --> 0:35:41.960
<v Speaker 1>biases and it's real, so it's not even particularly a bias.

0:35:42.960 --> 0:35:45.560
<v Speaker 3>What is the state of antitrust at the moment, because

0:35:45.640 --> 0:35:48.440
<v Speaker 3>I remember at the beginning of this year, it seemed

0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:51.680
<v Speaker 3>like it was emerging as a possibly bipartisan issue or

0:35:51.680 --> 0:35:54.120
<v Speaker 3>at least a direct link between the Biden administration and

0:35:54.160 --> 0:35:57.439
<v Speaker 3>the Trump administration. Everyone wanted to go after the big

0:35:57.480 --> 0:36:00.400
<v Speaker 3>tech companies, possibly for different reasons, but you know, the

0:36:00.440 --> 0:36:03.360
<v Speaker 3>outcomes the same. Is that still a live issue?

0:36:03.400 --> 0:36:07.719
<v Speaker 1>In DC. Yeah. I mean, look, speaking quite candidly, like

0:36:08.160 --> 0:36:10.480
<v Speaker 1>the state of the government is like large portions of

0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:13.640
<v Speaker 1>it for sale and for you know, large portions of

0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:17.880
<v Speaker 1>it are basically you know, they are very beholden to

0:36:18.080 --> 0:36:20.680
<v Speaker 1>financial interests. I'll put that very politely, shall I at

0:36:20.760 --> 0:36:23.960
<v Speaker 1>least about who can get to Trump's ear, who can

0:36:24.320 --> 0:36:27.040
<v Speaker 1>get and have some influence with the administration. I don't

0:36:27.080 --> 0:36:29.479
<v Speaker 1>want to poop poo it entirely, you know, when big

0:36:29.520 --> 0:36:32.000
<v Speaker 1>money or a donor or something like that is not involved.

0:36:32.000 --> 0:36:34.120
<v Speaker 1>The FTC has done some good work and has been

0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:37.040
<v Speaker 1>looking to try and confirmed, but they've also quite honestly,

0:36:37.120 --> 0:36:40.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, moved bass some of the antitrust cases and

0:36:40.440 --> 0:36:43.000
<v Speaker 1>others that Lena Khan put forward. So I would say

0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:45.920
<v Speaker 1>it's mixed. I mean, I think that the look, this

0:36:45.960 --> 0:36:47.440
<v Speaker 1>stuff is happening on in the open, so I don't

0:36:47.440 --> 0:36:49.560
<v Speaker 1>even know, I'm afraid of saying it. Like he convenes

0:36:49.560 --> 0:36:52.359
<v Speaker 1>the tech CEOs and they are like, how much money

0:36:52.400 --> 0:36:54.200
<v Speaker 1>do you want me to announce? And they'll just do it,

0:36:54.280 --> 0:36:56.560
<v Speaker 1>you know. I Mean, that's pretty much is the whole

0:36:56.600 --> 0:36:58.719
<v Speaker 1>ball game. And I think that gets to the kind

0:36:58.760 --> 0:37:01.520
<v Speaker 1>of power alliance I talked about earlier, like the Trump

0:37:01.560 --> 0:37:05.399
<v Speaker 1>administration really needs these companies for headlines and because they're

0:37:05.400 --> 0:37:07.200
<v Speaker 1>propping up the economy in their stock marketing.

0:37:07.239 --> 0:37:09.359
<v Speaker 2>So so this is exactly where I wanted to ask

0:37:09.400 --> 0:37:12.120
<v Speaker 2>you about next, which is if there's one tension here,

0:37:12.560 --> 0:37:15.680
<v Speaker 2>which is the stock market itself has sort of become

0:37:15.719 --> 0:37:18.840
<v Speaker 2>a populist issue. Right, This seem is very strange to

0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:21.640
<v Speaker 2>talk about the stock market and populism in the same sentence,

0:37:21.880 --> 0:37:24.560
<v Speaker 2>But you see all of the different people you know

0:37:24.600 --> 0:37:29.280
<v Speaker 2>who will randomly pull up on their phone various stock positions.

0:37:29.280 --> 0:37:32.360
<v Speaker 3>Well, Trump himself also benchmarks and Trump.

0:37:32.239 --> 0:37:34.120
<v Speaker 2>Talks about the stock market, so you know, this whole

0:37:34.120 --> 0:37:36.279
<v Speaker 2>time is like, oh, it's you know, it's main Street's turn,

0:37:36.320 --> 0:37:39.160
<v Speaker 2>et cetera. But a lot of young people, people who

0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:43.000
<v Speaker 2>are middle class or lower middle class feel either directly

0:37:43.200 --> 0:37:45.720
<v Speaker 2>either very directly in the stock market where they feel

0:37:45.760 --> 0:37:48.719
<v Speaker 2>like they have some very interest in it. How does

0:37:48.760 --> 0:37:50.760
<v Speaker 2>that intersect with this? What do you see like among

0:37:50.840 --> 0:37:53.480
<v Speaker 2>like the commenters on your show in terms of like

0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:55.359
<v Speaker 2>how they think about you know, just the sort of

0:37:55.760 --> 0:37:58.399
<v Speaker 2>betting and everything and investing in trading stuff.

0:37:58.560 --> 0:38:00.279
<v Speaker 1>That's a great question. I mean, I don't know, there's

0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:02.400
<v Speaker 1>like a couple of different angles to it, right, because

0:38:03.239 --> 0:38:07.200
<v Speaker 1>the Trump people ridiculed Biden for saying the economy was good,

0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:09.719
<v Speaker 1>but now they're doing the exact same thing. You guys know,

0:38:09.880 --> 0:38:11.799
<v Speaker 1>the S and P did pretty well under Biden. Right,

0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:14.440
<v Speaker 1>let's be honest, start benchmarketing from the day took office

0:38:14.560 --> 0:38:16.200
<v Speaker 1>to the day off. I forget the exact number, it's

0:38:16.239 --> 0:38:19.080
<v Speaker 1>like sixty eighty percent. Like these are decent returns over

0:38:19.360 --> 0:38:21.440
<v Speaker 1>the four year period. But it's not like anybody at

0:38:21.440 --> 0:38:23.480
<v Speaker 1>home was like, oh, the economy is so much better.

0:38:23.640 --> 0:38:26.480
<v Speaker 1>But of course politicians do that, you know, whenever they

0:38:26.520 --> 0:38:29.160
<v Speaker 1>come into office. But Joe, I mean, you're not wrong,

0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:31.280
<v Speaker 1>And I guess this is a much more meta conversation

0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:33.040
<v Speaker 1>where I mean you and you and I have talked

0:38:33.040 --> 0:38:35.480
<v Speaker 1>about this privately. The numbers got to go up, right,

0:38:35.600 --> 0:38:38.560
<v Speaker 1>because all of our futures are in the number. Like,

0:38:38.600 --> 0:38:40.200
<v Speaker 1>we don't have pensions in this country, We don't have

0:38:40.200 --> 0:38:43.319
<v Speaker 1>a robust social safety net until we turn sixty five,

0:38:43.440 --> 0:38:46.479
<v Speaker 1>So in the interim robust, Yeah, and then it gets

0:38:46.560 --> 0:38:49.160
<v Speaker 1>very robust. And that's a separate combo. But yeah, I

0:38:49.160 --> 0:38:51.520
<v Speaker 1>mean in the interim, like you know, your hopes of

0:38:51.640 --> 0:38:56.160
<v Speaker 1>retirement your hopes of buying something or asset appreciation, like

0:38:56.239 --> 0:38:59.200
<v Speaker 1>that's all we got. And I think that the increasing

0:38:59.520 --> 0:39:03.160
<v Speaker 1>financialization hope is exactly behind crypto sports betting issue and

0:39:03.239 --> 0:39:06.320
<v Speaker 1>very passionately against this is exactly why is I think,

0:39:06.520 --> 0:39:08.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, it removed a lot of the hope kind

0:39:08.600 --> 0:39:12.760
<v Speaker 1>of undergirding the stability of the American foundation, and within

0:39:12.840 --> 0:39:16.279
<v Speaker 1>that speculation and fast riches and plus, I mean, the

0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:18.360
<v Speaker 1>tech is so good. I mean, have you guys placed

0:39:18.400 --> 0:39:21.400
<v Speaker 1>trades on robin Hood, you know, with the and everything,

0:39:21.880 --> 0:39:23.400
<v Speaker 1>you gotta go do it. You know, you got to

0:39:23.440 --> 0:39:26.160
<v Speaker 1>feel it, put a little bit, put a position behind it,

0:39:26.200 --> 0:39:31.279
<v Speaker 1>and you'll see exactly that's the responsible thing to do.

0:39:31.640 --> 0:39:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Go put a couple of hundred into the spy and

0:39:34.440 --> 0:39:35.040
<v Speaker 1>but you'll just.

0:39:34.960 --> 0:39:39.319
<v Speaker 3>See like like celebratory Oh yeah, animations when you place

0:39:39.360 --> 0:39:39.840
<v Speaker 3>the trade.

0:39:40.320 --> 0:39:45.560
<v Speaker 1>It's happened to me recently, Yeah exactly. But I mean

0:39:45.640 --> 0:39:49.600
<v Speaker 1>I can see how you know, addictive that this can

0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:53.319
<v Speaker 1>all be. And they send you a million push notifications

0:39:53.360 --> 0:39:55.239
<v Speaker 1>a day, you know, the opposite of what a good

0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:57.640
<v Speaker 1>investor should do, Like, oh, stock is down five percent,

0:39:57.640 --> 0:39:59.640
<v Speaker 1>stock is up two percent. You know, they want you

0:39:59.719 --> 0:40:02.160
<v Speaker 1>click and staying in the app and the charts, everything

0:40:02.239 --> 0:40:04.160
<v Speaker 1>is designed for you to kind of be in there.

0:40:04.200 --> 0:40:06.160
<v Speaker 1>So these are big tech companies which they make a

0:40:06.200 --> 0:40:08.720
<v Speaker 1>lot of money doing this stuff. And you can see

0:40:08.760 --> 0:40:13.880
<v Speaker 1>why societally, structurally and technologically why that this became kind

0:40:13.920 --> 0:40:15.200
<v Speaker 1>of like a democratic issue.

0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:17.960
<v Speaker 2>By the way, while we're recording this, just breaking the

0:40:18.080 --> 0:40:22.280
<v Speaker 2>breaking news from Bloomberg Thinking Machines Lab and artificial intelligence

0:40:22.280 --> 0:40:25.800
<v Speaker 2>startup funded by former Open ai executive Mirror Murati early

0:40:25.840 --> 0:40:28.000
<v Speaker 2>talks to raise a new round of funding a roughly

0:40:28.040 --> 0:40:29.759
<v Speaker 2>fifty billion dollars valuation.

0:40:29.960 --> 0:40:33.000
<v Speaker 3>So every time we record an episode about AI, a

0:40:33.040 --> 0:40:35.440
<v Speaker 3>headline comes out recording.

0:40:35.640 --> 0:40:37.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it helps us benchmark where we are. That is

0:40:38.080 --> 0:40:41.360
<v Speaker 1>so crazy, It's so didn't core there was something I

0:40:41.360 --> 0:40:44.160
<v Speaker 1>saw research every day every day every day was one

0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:49.680
<v Speaker 1>yesterday and a new one hundred billion anthropic anthrop data

0:40:49.719 --> 0:40:52.759
<v Speaker 1>center exactly. It's just I mean, I don't know, I

0:40:53.120 --> 0:40:55.920
<v Speaker 1>really That's why I love your show. Thank you. Just

0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:58.480
<v Speaker 1>thinking about you know, I've been doing a lot of

0:40:58.560 --> 0:41:01.640
<v Speaker 1>John Cassidy dot com dot com reading, you know, back

0:41:01.640 --> 0:41:05.680
<v Speaker 1>from two thousand and vendor finance and just thinking really

0:41:05.680 --> 0:41:08.359
<v Speaker 1>deeply about it because I do think, you know, if

0:41:08.360 --> 0:41:10.440
<v Speaker 1>that look, you know, I don't know today, tomorrow, a

0:41:10.480 --> 0:41:13.480
<v Speaker 1>few years, who knows, you know, where exactly it comes.

0:41:13.680 --> 0:41:16.960
<v Speaker 1>But some sort of downturn is probably inevitable, and the

0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:20.640
<v Speaker 1>political ramifications of that are just so immense, you guys, know,

0:41:20.719 --> 0:41:23.719
<v Speaker 1>with the downturn in the stock market, interest rates, reduction

0:41:24.040 --> 0:41:26.200
<v Speaker 1>in workforce. I'm really afraid.

0:41:26.160 --> 0:41:28.440
<v Speaker 2>This is the thing, which is that there's already this

0:41:29.000 --> 0:41:31.560
<v Speaker 2>backlash and the stock market is in your record highs

0:41:31.560 --> 0:41:34.680
<v Speaker 2>and unemployment is near fifty year lows or whatever, so

0:41:34.719 --> 0:41:37.520
<v Speaker 2>we haven't actually seen any of like really bad stuff.

0:41:37.640 --> 0:41:40.040
<v Speaker 2>Soccer and Jetty, thank you so much for coming on

0:41:40.080 --> 0:41:40.640
<v Speaker 2>to oddlogs.

0:41:40.760 --> 0:41:42.160
<v Speaker 1>That was a love for you guys for having me.

0:41:42.239 --> 0:41:56.600
<v Speaker 2>I love it, Tracy. I thought that was a lot

0:41:56.640 --> 0:41:58.960
<v Speaker 2>of fun. You know, this idea that like there's already

0:41:59.000 --> 0:42:03.279
<v Speaker 2>this backlash that brewing, and we actually don't have widespread

0:42:03.360 --> 0:42:06.399
<v Speaker 2>unemployment yet. We haven't had a stock market crash yet

0:42:06.520 --> 0:42:08.640
<v Speaker 2>or anything like that. You know, three years of a

0:42:08.640 --> 0:42:10.560
<v Speaker 2>long time. We have no idea what the economy is

0:42:10.560 --> 0:42:12.160
<v Speaker 2>going to look like in twenty twenty eight or really

0:42:12.200 --> 0:42:16.520
<v Speaker 2>even twenty twenty six. But if there's so much negativity

0:42:16.560 --> 0:42:19.880
<v Speaker 2>already building, right, that sort of tells you tells you

0:42:19.920 --> 0:42:20.320
<v Speaker 2>a lot.

0:42:20.480 --> 0:42:23.239
<v Speaker 3>Right, If people are angry with the SMP at like

0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:26.120
<v Speaker 3>six thousand, seven hundred, how are they going to feel

0:42:26.840 --> 0:42:30.400
<v Speaker 3>when it's like below six thousand. Yeah, I mean I

0:42:30.440 --> 0:42:33.040
<v Speaker 3>think everyone is agreed at this point that this is

0:42:33.120 --> 0:42:35.439
<v Speaker 3>going to become a political issue, right, and the only

0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:38.360
<v Speaker 3>question is how big and then what the response actually

0:42:38.480 --> 0:42:41.080
<v Speaker 3>is to it. The other thing I'm thinking is because

0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:46.400
<v Speaker 3>relationships both within the government and between the government and

0:42:46.480 --> 0:42:49.799
<v Speaker 3>private entities seem so I'm just going to say, complicated

0:42:49.840 --> 0:42:53.239
<v Speaker 3>and fluid at the moment, it seems really hard to

0:42:53.360 --> 0:42:55.640
<v Speaker 3>guess like which direction this is going to go in.

0:42:55.920 --> 0:42:58.319
<v Speaker 2>Totally, it seems really hard to guess. I thought your

0:42:58.400 --> 0:43:00.480
<v Speaker 2>question about is anyone talking about you ubi?

0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:01.640
<v Speaker 1>And this is really interesting.

0:43:01.760 --> 0:43:06.319
<v Speaker 2>It's grim like how there seems to be almost no

0:43:07.200 --> 0:43:10.680
<v Speaker 2>truly forward thinking politics. I mean, really, this conversation should

0:43:10.719 --> 0:43:13.879
<v Speaker 2>have been happening throughout the twenty twenty four election, right,

0:43:14.000 --> 0:43:16.320
<v Speaker 2>like this was like obviously going to be a massive

0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:19.160
<v Speaker 2>thing and the stakes would be incredibly high. It was

0:43:19.239 --> 0:43:20.440
<v Speaker 2>virtually non existent.

0:43:20.480 --> 0:43:21.520
<v Speaker 1>That was just a year ago.

0:43:21.600 --> 0:43:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I think that really tells you something. And

0:43:23.560 --> 0:43:25.920
<v Speaker 2>the fact that by and large, you know there's a

0:43:25.960 --> 0:43:28.600
<v Speaker 2>couple of people tweeting about it here and there, like

0:43:28.600 --> 0:43:32.200
<v Speaker 2>maybe Aron DeSantis, but by and large, this still doesn't

0:43:32.200 --> 0:43:35.560
<v Speaker 2>seem to be something that any elected official like wants

0:43:35.600 --> 0:43:38.040
<v Speaker 2>to sort of carve their land out.

0:43:38.239 --> 0:43:41.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and it's probably not until unemployment actually picks up

0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:43.799
<v Speaker 3>that you're going to see like people actually start to

0:43:43.800 --> 0:43:47.480
<v Speaker 3>talk about some possible solutions, but again it's hard to

0:43:47.480 --> 0:43:48.160
<v Speaker 3>see what those are.

0:43:48.200 --> 0:43:50.640
<v Speaker 2>We're just like, yeah, thinking and advance any of this stuff.

0:43:50.680 --> 0:43:52.319
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, all right, shall we leave it there?

0:43:52.360 --> 0:43:53.239
<v Speaker 2>Sure, let's leave it there.

0:43:53.360 --> 0:43:55.680
<v Speaker 3>This has been another episode of the All Thoughts podcast.

0:43:55.800 --> 0:43:58.600
<v Speaker 3>I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway.

0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:01.360
<v Speaker 2>And I'm Joe Wisenthal. You can follow me at the Stalwart.

0:44:01.560 --> 0:44:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Follow our guests Sager and Jetty. He's at e Sager.

0:44:04.600 --> 0:44:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Follow our producers Carmen Rodriguez at Kerman Armann, dash Ol

0:44:07.680 --> 0:44:10.879
<v Speaker 2>Bennett at dashbod at Kilbrooks at Kilbrooks. For more Odd

0:44:10.920 --> 0:44:13.399
<v Speaker 2>Lots content, go to Bloomberg dot com. Slash odd Lots

0:44:13.440 --> 0:44:15.880
<v Speaker 2>were a bid daily newsletter and all of our episodes,

0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:18.080
<v Speaker 2>and you can chat about all of these topics. Twenty

0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:22.520
<v Speaker 2>four seven in our discord Discord dot gg slash odd Lots.

0:44:22.080 --> 0:44:24.200
<v Speaker 3>And if you enjoy odd Lots, if you like it

0:44:24.239 --> 0:44:27.359
<v Speaker 3>when we talk about the political ramifications of AI, then

0:44:27.400 --> 0:44:30.640
<v Speaker 3>please leave us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform.

0:44:30.960 --> 0:44:33.719
<v Speaker 3>And remember, if you are a Bloomberg subscriber, you can

0:44:33.760 --> 0:44:37.080
<v Speaker 3>listen to all of our episodes absolutely ad free. All

0:44:37.080 --> 0:44:39.200
<v Speaker 3>you need to do is find the Bloomberg channel on

0:44:39.320 --> 0:44:42.920
<v Speaker 3>Apple Podcasts and follow the instructions there. Thanks for listening,

0:45:04.360 --> 0:45:04.600
<v Speaker 3>Nan