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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Work in Progress. This week, friends, we have

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Speaker 1: the ultimate whip smart guest here with us today, someone

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Speaker 1: that I have been geeked to have on the show

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Speaker 1: and who I have been lucky enough to be in

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Speaker 1: rooms with over the years, fighting for what's right, standing

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Speaker 1: for what's good, and who's smarter than today's guest. Pete

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Speaker 1: Budhachez is here. Friends. If you have found yourself pausing

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Speaker 1: mid political argument that you hear on TV and you think,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, this actually makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: I would bet you money that you're watching Pete Budhacheje

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Speaker 1: on screen and I can't believe I'm going to say it.

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Speaker 1: You're probably watching him completely deconstructing saying arguments on Fox News.

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Speaker 1: He manages to answer tough questions with such calm and precision.

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Speaker 1: His steadiness is disarming, his smile is so charming, and

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Speaker 1: he's just the nicest Midwestern guy in the political sphere.

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Speaker 1: He was elected at just twenty nine years old as

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Speaker 1: a young mayor in South Bend, Indiana. He served as

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Speaker 1: a Navy reservist. He was deployed to Afghanistan. He was

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Speaker 1: a Rhodes scholar. Oh and, by the way, the first

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Speaker 1: openly gay Senate confirmed Cabinet secretary in US history. His

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Speaker 1: resume is incredibly impressive, his commitment to human goodness is

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Speaker 1: incredibly inspiring, and he manages to spin all of these

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Speaker 1: plates while being a devoted husband and a loving father

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Speaker 1: of two. And I am just so thrilled that he's

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Speaker 1: here with us today. I want to ask him questions

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Speaker 1: about leadership, about parenting, and about how he's meeting the

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Speaker 1: moment in this absolute insane dumpster of a twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy out there, friends, but we're managing to find

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Speaker 1: some good and some hope, and dare I say some

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Speaker 1: inspiration together, Let's dive in with Pete Boota Chuench. Hello, Hi,

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Speaker 1: how are you all right?

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Speaker 2: How are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I'm really well. It's so nice to see you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, same here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. My team was asking if we'd met, and it

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Speaker 1: was funny. I realized we had that early fundraiser for

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Speaker 1: you out here in LA that Lee Daniels hosted. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was so much fun and so great to meet

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Speaker 1: so many people in your world. And then I was

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Speaker 1: telling everyone about how special the Iowa State Fair weekend

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Speaker 1: gun Sense Forum was back in twenty nineteen during the primary,

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I just realized we've all kind of been

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Speaker 1: in the trench together for a long time. So thank

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Speaker 1: you for staying in the fight the way you do.

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Speaker 2: Well. Likewise, thanks for raising your voice. It's proven to

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Speaker 2: be even more important now than it was then.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, thanks. I try, and I do occasionally remind

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Speaker 1: myself that it is important for those of us who

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Speaker 1: don't hold elected office or an official journalism seat on

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Speaker 1: the news to be able to say so many things

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Speaker 1: that you guys sometimes can't. So I'm here, I'm here,

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Speaker 1: and I'm loud, and I'm not going anywhere.

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Speaker 2: Good.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's a million things I want to ask you about.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the state of the world and your record,

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Speaker 1: and what it's like to serve you both for the

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Speaker 1: country and an office and all of it. But before

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Speaker 1: we get into that staff and then all the side

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Speaker 1: note questions I have about young parent life, I actually

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Speaker 1: really want to go back because I get to sit

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Speaker 1: across from fascinating people like yourself. One who sits in

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Speaker 1: the hot seat has a career that people know, you know,

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Speaker 1: they know your life they know your work. But I'm

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Speaker 1: always really curious about folks I admire before we knew

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Speaker 1: them publicly. And I especially like asking this question of

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Speaker 1: parents because I think at a certain point, you're reflecting

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Speaker 1: backwards and also forwards. And I wonder if we could

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Speaker 1: have like our own Marty McFly day and go back

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Speaker 1: in time, and we could be having this conversation and

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Speaker 1: walk out onto a playground and see our ten year

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Speaker 1: old selves. Would you see the man you are today

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Speaker 1: in that young boy? And do you think he would

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Speaker 1: recognize himself in you?

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Speaker 2: Wow, that really makes me think. I don't know. I

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Speaker 2: definitely would not have emerged as a gregarious political type

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Speaker 2: when I was ten years old, although I feel like

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Speaker 2: I'm not one now forty four either, even though I'm

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Speaker 2: involved in politics and I love love being around people,

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Speaker 2: but you know, I largely kept to myself, pretty nerdy,

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Speaker 2: you know, absorbed in the handful of things I really

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Speaker 2: cared about most. And you know, I think at the

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Speaker 2: time I understood started to understand that the world was

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Speaker 2: kind of divided into like bookish or intelligent people and

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Speaker 2: then the opposite, which was popular people and social people.

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Speaker 2: And I thought I kind of chose between one or

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Speaker 2: the other. So you know, one I guess thing I've

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Speaker 2: been happy to learn in life is that there is

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Speaker 2: a way to you know, link the life of the

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Speaker 2: mind and the things you care about and things that

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Speaker 2: are we're studying and getting smart on to participating in

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Speaker 2: public life and being very socially engaged in social and

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Speaker 2: involved and connected. But yeah, I mean, when I was ten,

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Speaker 2: I think my fondest wish was to probably be an

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Speaker 2: airline pilot. I had some awareness of politics, but it

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Speaker 2: wasn't really you know, what I thought I'd be spending

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Speaker 2: my life on. So who knows what a ten year

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Speaker 2: old me would have thought of Of what I've become

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Speaker 2: and what I do these days, that's really exciting.

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Speaker 1: What what were you reading? What were your bookish habits

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Speaker 1: revolving around then?

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's right about the age when I hit

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Speaker 2: my Star Trek phase, So I read anything related to

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Speaker 2: Star Trek the next Generation, which was also what I've

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Speaker 2: been would have been watching on TV. And yeah, it

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Speaker 2: just it's funny because I started out with more of

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Speaker 2: a science mind, and I think I wound up with

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Speaker 2: more of a kind of arts and humanities and social studies. Mine.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, god's harding put myself back in those days.

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Speaker 2: I remember the kind of paperbacks that were going around,

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Speaker 2: you know, the Goosebumps books and stuff like that that that, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're reading. I'd go to the library and check out

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Speaker 2: books on the Titanic, which I was obsessed with before

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Speaker 2: it was a movie, by the way, well that made

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Speaker 2: it cool. But I was just fascinated by the Titanic

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Speaker 2: and the discovery the Titanic. In fact, I think the

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Speaker 2: first time, maybe the only time I ever wrote a

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Speaker 2: fan letter was to Robert Ballard, the discoverer the Titanic,

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Speaker 2: who famously in the eighties was on this National Geographic

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Speaker 2: covered expedition and found it. And one of the great

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Speaker 2: things about public life is sometimes you get to meet

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Speaker 2: your heroes. And I had a chance to meet him

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Speaker 2: while I was secretary. Yeah, he actually stopped by. He

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Speaker 2: actually asked for the meeting. I don't know how exactly

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Speaker 2: it came about, but he was interested and a couple

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Speaker 2: of things I was working on and just had this

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Speaker 2: out of body experience of watching him over breakfast lay

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Speaker 2: blueberries out on the table to explain the trajectory that

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Speaker 2: his research vessel was taking. Through the North Atlantic where

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Speaker 2: it was covering. It turns out on a secret mission

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Speaker 2: covering a Navy funded effort to find the wreckage of

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Speaker 2: nuclear submarines, which was how he got the Navy to

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Speaker 2: give him the funding that he then used to find

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Speaker 2: the Titanic on the same mission. He has a new

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Speaker 2: memoir out, so this has been declassified, but we didn't

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Speaker 2: know this at the time, So the story is even

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Speaker 2: more amazing now than it was then. And I just

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Speaker 2: my jaw dropped as I watched this person who was

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Speaker 2: a hero of mine as a kid, telling that story

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Speaker 2: in front of me. It was a really really cool thing.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, the Titanic, Tornadoes, Star Trek, all

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Speaker 2: those kind of nerdy pursuits were the legos. One of

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Speaker 2: the wonderful things about our kids turning forward as they're

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Speaker 2: reaching the lego phase, which is throwing me right back

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Speaker 2: to when, you know, my fondest hope was to get

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Speaker 2: a chance to build a Lego set any given day

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Speaker 2: when I was a kid. In fact, sometimes I have

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Speaker 2: to remember that it's their legos, not Papa's legos. Like,

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Speaker 2: if they don't want to play with legos right now,

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Speaker 2: that's okay. I try not to push it too much.

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Speaker 2: But all of a sudden, in fact, even this morning,

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Speaker 2: before I caught a flight, somebody for Valentine's Day gave

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Speaker 2: Gus our son like a little noise, little kind of

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Speaker 2: mini micro lego of packets that was like a penguin.

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Speaker 2: And I was torn between knowing that I needed to

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Speaker 2: leave to get to the airport in time, and him

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Speaker 2: in the minutes before heading to school, insisting that I

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Speaker 2: help him just put a couple more pieces on this

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Speaker 2: little lego penguin, and genuinely not being sure what I

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Speaker 2: should do right And just to be clear, we finished

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Speaker 2: the penguin before I left the house.

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Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. See that is where

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Speaker 1: your ten year old self and your present self really

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Speaker 1: get to merge. It's so crazy to hear you tell

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Speaker 1: some of these stories. I've never heard them. And I

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Speaker 1: too was a nat geo kid, I mean obsessively so

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Speaker 1: an obsessive lego kid. And I have to say I

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Speaker 1: have never earned more points with my godson who is

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Speaker 1: about to before than last Christmas when I won Lego

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Speaker 1: Masters WHOA And I genuinely was like, this is the

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Speaker 1: pinnacle moment of my career, Like Yeah, movies are great.

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Speaker 1: TV shows are fine, but this to be able to

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Speaker 1: do a TV show about my favorite nerdy hobby from

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Speaker 1: my childhood because I too wanted to tinker and build

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Speaker 1: and then watch documentaries and read weird history books. And

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Speaker 1: as an adult, I'm thrilled there's a third lane for us,

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Speaker 1: those of us who kind of like straddle both worlds.

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Speaker 1: It's so cool if you love the sort of clandestine

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Speaker 1: explorer meets pirate world of mister Ballard. There's a documentary

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Speaker 1: called The Farthest about when we sent the voyager out

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Speaker 1: for the very first time to photograph the outer planets.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, and NASA. The guys at NASA, including Carl Sagan,

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Speaker 1: did some seriously cowboys. That's crazy to learn as an adult,

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Speaker 1: you're like, wait, what do you You did what to

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Speaker 1: get that funding? Like you said what to the president?

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Speaker 1: It's wild? So that has to go on your list.

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Speaker 2: All right, that's on my list. I got to see that.

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Speaker 2: I think that's the most fascinating thing and spooky eerie

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Speaker 2: right to know that there's this thing that's been out

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Speaker 2: there for what almost fifty years now or maybe more,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's still pinging.

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Speaker 1: Out there, it's out there. It's out there. We lost

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Speaker 1: the last transmission, and I watched the moment that the

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Speaker 1: scientists essentially had to say goodbye, and I wept. And interestingly,

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Speaker 1: I think it will touch you in the same way

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Speaker 1: it does me, because when you fast forward to this

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Speaker 1: moment where things are so fraught and they're echoing some

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Speaker 1: of the worst times in history, and you think about

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Speaker 1: this mission being in between then and now, the idea

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Speaker 1: that we not only sent out this spacecraft, but that

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Speaker 1: we made art on it, and the art was an

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Speaker 1: invitation to get to know us with instructions about how

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Speaker 1: to come and see. Yes, it has taken me years,

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Speaker 1: having seen this movie and rewatching it every year in

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Speaker 1: the summer, to be able to talk about it without weeping,

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Speaker 1: because it was kind of the best of us in

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Speaker 1: this moment, saying hey, whoever's out there, come say hi.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine I mean that that kind of interstellar

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Speaker 1: neighborly attitude. It's crazy to me, it's so cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think that's that spirits still there. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: maybe at the moment I would say it comes say high,

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Speaker 2: but like it gives a few years to get some

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Speaker 2: things together first, but yeah, there's something touching and there's

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Speaker 2: something universal about that right that that reminds us. It

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Speaker 2: just kind of pulls us out of the moment and

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Speaker 2: the fight between parties and between countries and reminds us

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Speaker 2: that there're, you know, some things, there's some things we're

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Speaker 2: up against. It we're up against as a species, not

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Speaker 2: just as as country or as a as a family

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Speaker 2: or as a community.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty profound. It made me. It made me

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Speaker 1: giggle last week, you know, in the time where we're

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Speaker 1: recording this. Last week, President Obama got asked about aliens

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Speaker 1: and he was like, well, yeah, and then he was

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Speaker 1: like wait, wait, wait, hold on, like roll it back.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying there's aliens at area fifty one. I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying statistically the size of the universe, the galaxies.

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Speaker 1: Everybody calmed down, and I was like, oh boy, here

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Speaker 1: we go. It was pretty great. I'm curious for you,

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Speaker 1: as a curious kid who maintains that curiosity in your adulthood.

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Speaker 1: I have this sort of lore about you. You know,

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Speaker 1: I grew up with parents in the arts, but you

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Speaker 1: grew up with your parents being college professors, which to

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Speaker 1: me seems like the coolest house to have dinner in. Ever.

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Speaker 1: Was it like, were you constantly surrounded by all these

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Speaker 1: fascinating minds or did they leave work at work?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in hindsight, yeah, I don't think I understood it

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Speaker 2: at the time. You know, we lived in a middle

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Speaker 2: class neighborhood and in northern Indiana. If anything like being

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Speaker 2: being a kid of people who worked at the university,

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Speaker 2: which is probably the biggest employer in South Bend, Indiana,

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Speaker 2: but but it was largely an industrial town. So if

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Speaker 2: your parents were at the university kind of marked you

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Speaker 2: out as maybe a little bit a little bit different

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Speaker 2: from everybody else who had All the other kids who

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Speaker 2: had his parents had jobs that I actually understood what

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Speaker 2: they were, right. You know, somebody's parents were nurses or

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Speaker 2: teachers or or you know, friend's dad who managed at

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Speaker 2: pizza place, Like I understood exactly what that was. And

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Speaker 2: then I had to explain kind of what my parents did,

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Speaker 2: and it's hard to actually hard to actually grasp it,

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Speaker 2: let alone. I was thinking about that last year because

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Speaker 2: because our kids were old enough to start asking what,

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Speaker 2: you know, what we do, and I could kind of explain.

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Speaker 2: When I was Secretary of Transportation once I really thought

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Speaker 2: about it. I could say, okay, well, well you know,

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Speaker 2: tomorrow I'm going to help fix a bridge. A big

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Speaker 2: bridge fell down and I'm helping fix it, or you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm helping make the airplanes safer. But then after I

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Speaker 2: finished my time in the cabinet and I had a

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Speaker 2: brief stint at the University of Chicago, I was a

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Speaker 2: fellow there, and my daughter was asking me like, what

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Speaker 2: are you what are you doing for work? And it

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Speaker 2: took me a minute and then I hit on it.

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Speaker 2: I said, well, I'm a teacher for grown ups. And

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Speaker 2: she was really upset. She said, but no, you're You're

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Speaker 2: my papa, that's your job. I was like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: I can be both. I promise be a papa and

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Speaker 2: also be a teacher for grown ups. But yeah, in hindsight,

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Speaker 2: it was a great world to grow up. And because

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Speaker 2: some of the you know, some of the grown ups

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Speaker 2: that I met when I was a kid who were

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Speaker 2: asking me about, you know, being nice and asking me

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Speaker 2: about a loose tooth or what was going on with

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Speaker 2: my homework or whatever. You were also really impressive people,

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Speaker 2: scholars in their fields doing really really cool stuff. And

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Speaker 2: some of them had a real lives of moral leadership

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Speaker 2: as well, which which I gradually learned to understand and

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Speaker 2: to respect. Many of the people my parents became friends

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Speaker 2: with in the eighties were involved in kind of the

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Speaker 2: big on campus activist cause at the time, which was

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Speaker 2: standing up against apartheid in South Africa and pressing the

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Speaker 2: university to not invest in South Africa until apartheid fell.

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Speaker 2: And that was something my father had cared about all

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Speaker 2: his life. He talked about back when he was a

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Speaker 2: student participating in a protest where they would tie up

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Speaker 2: the offices of South African Airlines. This is in London,

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Speaker 2: he was in England before he immigrated to the US,

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Speaker 2: and they would as an organized action, they would pair

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Speaker 2: a white student and a black student as a couple,

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Speaker 2: a man and a woman, and they would all line

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Speaker 2: up one by one and go in to book a ticket,

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Speaker 2: and the ticketing agency would turn them away because they

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Speaker 2: wouldn't book a ticket for a couple that that was

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Speaker 2: mixed race. And so there's this way to kind of,

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Speaker 2: you know, use used their their prejudice as a vulnerability

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Speaker 2: and demonstrate something at the same time. So you fast

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Speaker 2: forward to the eighties and nineties or certainly the eighties,

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Speaker 2: and and that was the cause they continued to be

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Speaker 2: involved with. One of my dad's fellow professors who came

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Speaker 2: from it was a white South African who actually was

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Speaker 2: originally from Rhodesia which became Zimbabwe. Could have had probably

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Speaker 2: a professional cricket career, but refused to play on a

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Speaker 2: team for UH, for a country that was that was

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Speaker 2: in an apartheid system. Incredible and UH and then wound

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Speaker 2: up as a as a political scientist at Notre Dame.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, in hindsight, what a privilege to be around

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Speaker 2: some of these incredible people. But to me, there were

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Speaker 2: just other grown ups that you know, when I was done,

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Speaker 2: you know, playing in the park with with my friends

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Speaker 2: and neighbor kids and came in for dinner. Sometimes they'd

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Speaker 2: be over for dinner, I just kind of soak up

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Speaker 2: some of the dinner conversation or not. But I guess

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Speaker 2: that's part of how I learned about how the world works.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really amazing to hear you say that. It

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Speaker 1: makes me think about my own childhood because you know,

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Speaker 1: we're the we're the same age. I'll be forty four

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Speaker 1: this year, and I grew up in the eighties in

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Speaker 1: LA with a dad who's an immigrant and an artist,

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Speaker 1: and a mom whose mother was an immigrant who you know,

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Speaker 1: came through Ellis Island, lived in a housing project in

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Speaker 1: the Bronx, like these very American stories. And in the

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Speaker 1: eighties in Los Angeles, in my dad's studio, everybody was gay, everybody,

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Speaker 1: everybody was diverse. I was like, my uncle Jeff was

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Speaker 1: a makeup artist and his husband Winston, performed in drag

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Speaker 1: in West Hollywood is Diana Ross every Saturday night, and like,

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Speaker 1: this gorgeous man with this beautiful dark skin would transform

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Speaker 1: into this lady with massive hair and red sequins, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, these are the coolest people I've ever met.

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Speaker 1: And we would play dress up together.

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Speaker 2: Wow, Yeah, that was that was not going on in

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Speaker 2: Indiana West not But it's.

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Speaker 1: Like, how crazy that you were learning about apartheid. And

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Speaker 1: I realized, even only recently, when people asked me about

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Speaker 1: my journey into activism, I thought it was national geographic.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was all the books I was reading.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was growing up in southern California and

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Speaker 1: advocating for the forests and the oceans. And then I realized,

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Speaker 1: oh no, I was going to pride marches in a

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Speaker 1: stroller like I was getting in fights on the playground

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Speaker 1: because kids were using the other F word, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, don't you talk about my uncles that way?

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Speaker 1: You know, and you realize how shaped for the better

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Speaker 1: you can be by being exposed to other people's journeys

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Speaker 1: and realities, and also the purity of a kid going, well,

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Speaker 1: that's the best person I know. So when you grow

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Speaker 1: up and someone's criticizing somebody for who they love or

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Speaker 1: what they look like, you go, well, that's absolutely stupid.

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Speaker 1: And some adult made that up to fight over something

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Speaker 1: that isn't real because they don't want to fix the

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Speaker 1: problems that are sounds a lot like the current White House.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's so surreal, I think, to be at

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Speaker 1: this age and this place, because we've lived long enough

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Speaker 1: to know our history, right. And when I think about

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Speaker 1: your history in South Bend, becoming the mayor at twenty nine,

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Speaker 1: you know, a young leader after having been a Rhodes scholar.

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 1: Entering into public life in that time, listening to the

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Speaker 1: conversations at your table that you did understanding not just

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Speaker 1: what was happening in your college town in Indiana, but

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Speaker 1: the history of how things shifted around the world. Why

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Speaker 1: did you decide to run for a mayor in the

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Speaker 1: first place. Did you find the calling when you were

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Speaker 1: in your collegiate studies or was it the sort of

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Speaker 1: thing where you feel like the job picked you.

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Speaker 2: Well, like I was starting to say, you know, even

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Speaker 2: though South Bend is a city that's known for Notre

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Speaker 2: Dame being there, it doesn't really have the character of

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Speaker 2: a college town. You know. It was a company town

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Speaker 2: for Studibaker, which was a major automaker until it died

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Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty three. And I didn't really understand until

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Speaker 2: I left that it was unusual to have broken down

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Speaker 2: factories and acres of collapsing buildings everywhere you went, because

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Speaker 2: our city had never really recovered from losing Studentmaker. And

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Speaker 2: then there were even more blows that came in the

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Speaker 2: nineties to other parts of the auto industry. So, honestly,

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Speaker 2: when I was growing up, the message I got about

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Speaker 2: my community was mostly that if you wanted to make

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Speaker 2: something of yourself, you had to get out, which was

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Speaker 2: a lot of people did. That's what I did, and

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Speaker 2: then as soon as I did, that's when I realized

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Speaker 2: I was from somewhere. I didn't realize that I was

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Speaker 2: a very Midwestern person until I got to college on

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Speaker 2: the East Coast and realized, and this is nothing against

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Speaker 2: the East Coast, but I just that was a culture

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Speaker 2: and it was different from the culture that I was from,

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Speaker 2: and I started to realize that I belonged closer to home.

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Speaker 2: And I also found that a lot of folks I

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Speaker 2: had grown up with that kind of generation of people

390
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Speaker 2: who have a similar story, had got a similar message

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Speaker 2: growing up. All were asking, well, why can't our city

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Speaker 2: be more than it is? Why can't our city be growing?

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Speaker 2: And I think the more down on that community, and

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Speaker 2: on the industrial Midwest generally, more down on it, people became,

395
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Speaker 2: the more militant I became about believing in the place.

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Speaker 2: I remember you standing at a party with a lot

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Speaker 2: of coastal college grad friends, holding a beer in my hand,

398
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Speaker 2: explaining that I was moving back to Indiana, and someone

399
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Speaker 2: asked me if my parents were ill, if that was

400
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Speaker 2: the reason I was going back, because I couldn't imagine

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Speaker 2: that I would just go back because because I thought

402
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Speaker 2: it longer, I wanted to. Yeah. Another friend who could

403
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Speaker 2: never remember whether it was Iowa or Idaho or Indiana that.

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Speaker 1: I was, Oh my god, You're like, they're really not similar.

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Speaker 2: At all exactly. And so I think all of that

406
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 2: helped me build this identity that I really cared about

407
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Speaker 2: where I was from in more ways than I understood,

408
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Speaker 2: because growing up there, I sometimes I did feel at

409
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Speaker 2: odds with my own community, felt kind of different, and

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Speaker 2: wasn't sure how I fit in. But by the time

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Speaker 2: I decided to come back, I knew that I couldn't

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Speaker 2: should make a difference and do something about it. And

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Speaker 2: things had gotten more and more difficult for the city's reputation.

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Speaker 2: There was a big national spread on America's ten dying

415
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Speaker 2: cities right around the time I ran for Malior. South

416
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Speaker 2: Bend was listed as one of them. Just to give

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Speaker 2: you a sense of it, our per capita income around

418
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Speaker 2: the time I ran for mayor it was about eighteen

419
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Speaker 2: thousand dollars per person per year, and we had whole

420
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Speaker 2: blocks on the west side of our city that had

421
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Speaker 2: more vacant houses than the houses of people living in

422
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Speaker 2: But a generation of people who thought, doesn't have to

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Speaker 2: be this way. And I think when you run for

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Speaker 2: office in your young in a lot of ways, your

425
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: face is your message just even the act of running

426
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: was kind of me saying, look, I believe in the city,

427
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Speaker 2: and I think all of us should. And what I

428
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 2: found was a lot of voters from an older generation

429
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Speaker 2: actually wanted to support that because they wanted to believe

430
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Speaker 2: it'd be the kind of city that their kids or

431
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Speaker 2: their grandkids would like stay in or move home. To

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Speaker 2: the way that I had it was kind of like

433
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,360
Speaker 2: a seal of approval on our city having a lot

434
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 2: of value. And so I found that that we had

435
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 2: a real kind of intergenerational coalition coming together to make

436
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 2: that campaign happen. And then we won, which was just

437
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 2: the most amazing thing. I was in it to win it,

438
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 2: but I still couldn't believe on some level when we did.

439
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 2: And then, you know, then came the hard part. Then

440
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 2: I had to deliver and had to pull together as

441
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 2: many people as I could to change the story of

442
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 2: the city and the incredible things we did year by

443
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 2: year things started to change.

444
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute, but here's

445
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. This segment is brought to

446
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: you by eBay. There's a different kind of care that

447
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 1: comes with letting something meaningful go, especially when it has

448
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: a story attached to it. When you pass something on,

449
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: you want to know it's being handled with respect. When

450
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: I was living in Chicago, I took part in my

451
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: first ever giant charity sale and I was able to

452
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 1: auction several items from my personal closet on eBay. Some

453
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 1: of them were truly one of a kind, pieces connected

454
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: to specific moments, TV sets, or from personal collections. They

455
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: were items that marked huge moments in my life and

456
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: in my career, and though I was ready to pass

457
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: them along, I also wanted to make sure they were

458
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: going to someone who would love them. And in passing

459
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: items along like that, authenticity really matters to the person

460
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: who's getting them. That's why I love eBay's authenticity guarantee.

461
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: They weren't just listing my items, they were verifying them,

462
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: making sure something was genuinely from where it claimed to be,

463
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: in this case, my closet, honoring the history behind it,

464
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 1: and giving someone else a chance to love it too,

465
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 1: all for a good cause. That level of trust made

466
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: all the difference for me and for the fans who

467
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: bought items on auction. It meant that buyers felt confident,

468
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: and it meant we were able to raise meaningful money

469
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 1: for a great cause. The items found new homes and

470
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: their stories continued on and now they're connected to something

471
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: bigger than just any one person. That's what eBay does best.

472
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: It's not just a marketplace. It's a place where value, integrity,

473
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: storytelling and impact meet. Find what you love, sell what

474
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: you don't eBay things people love. We talk about this

475
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: sort of similar expansiveness we grew up around as kids,

476
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: even though the subject matter was quite different. And it's

477
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: not lost on me that it's you and it's me

478
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 1: having this conversation together. And it's beautiful to me that

479
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: by twenty fifteen, when you were in the middle of

480
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 1: your reelection campaign, you came out and you did it

481
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: in the local newspaper in South Bend. And to know,

482
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: because you know again deep research nerd over here, to

483
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: know that you won that election with eighty percent of

484
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: the votes. It's like you think about how different it

485
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: was by the time you were in your early career

486
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: to how it was when you were a young boy,

487
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: Like what's that backdrop like? Because yes, I want to know,

488
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: how do you put a coalition together and what is

489
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 1: your first sort of plan of attack when you're fixing

490
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: a city. But also you're a person, You're not just

491
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: a leader. What was it like to take that personal.

492
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: It's funny, my brain's sort of arguing between two words.

493
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: On the one hand, I want to say it's a

494
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: personal gamble, and on the other I want to say,

495
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: it's really taking the reins. It's taking your own power,

496
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: it's choosing your own identity and your own way. It's

497
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: vulnerable and it's very strong.

498
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: One way to say it is that it was less

499
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: of a confidence that things would work out politically and

500
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 2: more of a confidence that it was going to be

501
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 2: worth it whether things worked out politically or not. So

502
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: I made the decision to come out largely as a

503
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 2: result of my deployment. So I was a sitting mayor

504
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: and I was a reservist, and I got deployed to Afghanistan.

505
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 2: Like any reservist or National Guard member, you can get

506
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 2: deployed and you leave your job behind, and in my

507
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 2: case that meant a deputy mayor filled in. I took

508
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 2: a leave of absence, went off to war as Lieutenant Pete,

509
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: and then came home. And in the course of that process,

510
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 2: realized that if I was going to come home, I

511
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: wasn't going to continue deeper and deeper into my thirties

512
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 2: with no idea what it was like to be in love.

513
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 2: I wanted to start dating and have a personal life,

514
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 2: and I did not see a way to do that

515
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: without coming out publicly, because I didn't want to be

516
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: tiptoeing round or trying to hide something. And what all

517
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 2: that meant was that it was time and if that

518
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: was going to be a problem for my careers, that

519
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 2: just was what it was. But yeah, I mean, look,

520
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: that was only five years after don't Ask, don't tell

521
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: being the law of the land, right, so it hadn't

522
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: been that many years since it would have been the

523
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 2: end of my military career as well as potentially my

524
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: political career. I don't know what would have happened if

525
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 2: I'd tried to get anywhere in Indiana politics in twenty

526
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 2: ten as an out candidate, But by twenty fifteen, I

527
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: knew it was at least worth taking a chance on

528
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 2: the community, that they would judge me by the job

529
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: I had done instead instead of anything else, and I

530
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 2: was at peace with the idea that either way, this

531
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: was what I had to do.

532
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a big deal, though, and I think it's

533
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: worth saying because it's an observation that strikes me and

534
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: it's something that's worth our friends at home hearing. You know,

535
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: there is often a misnomer when you live a public

536
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: life that that's your reason for being, you know, the

537
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: access or the power or the office or the TV

538
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: show or whatever is your whole reason for doing everything.

539
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: And I think it's really important to remind people you

540
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: are so much more than what you do. And it

541
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: takes a hell of a lot of courage to be

542
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: who you are, to choose your personhood and your life

543
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: when it also can risk a big job that people

544
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: think might be the core of your life. And I

545
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: really I know it's been a long time, you know,

546
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: it's over a decade now, but I really just I

547
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: appreciate that you made that choice, and I know you

548
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: made it for you, but it has ripple effects for

549
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: all of us too.

550
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for saying that. And yeah, the thing, the

551
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: thing I really wasn't banking on was how much I

552
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: would hear from people right away.

553
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, wait, tell me about that, Like, what were the

554
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: d ms, and what were the what were the what

555
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: was the mail you got?

556
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: You know, it was extraordinary I mean, obviously not all

557
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 2: of it was great, you know, to tell me, but

558
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 2: but you know, hearing the number of people who said

559
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,239
Speaker 2: it meant something to them. Some of them because they

560
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 2: had a relative that they were thinking about. Uh, some

561
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 2: of them because they were in the same boat. Some

562
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 2: people I had been deployed with, including one person who

563
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: was so one of my jobs was to drive people

564
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: or vehicles outside the wire and we didn't we didn't

565
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: have a lot of advanced military equipment in my units,

566
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: so I just land cruiser trying to get between Cobble

567
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: and Bogram, which is kind of a little road trip,

568
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 2: and it was kind of if I was trying to

569
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 2: get somebody to come on that mission with me, it

570
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: was usually as just as a volunteer, just somebody willing

571
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 2: to do it because they wanted to be helpful, not

572
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: because I could order them to do it. Because I

573
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 2: was in a very small unit, and one of the

574
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 2: people who was willing to come with me on some

575
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 2: pretty risky movements, who I knew a little bit but

576
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 2: not that well, turn out he was in the exact

577
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 2: same boat. And you know, having seen mine, who's reached

578
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 2: out just to share his own experience and so that

579
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: was a really, really incredible thing to see. But yeah,

580
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: I think to your bigger point, one of the occupational

581
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: hazards of having very meaningful work is that you wind

582
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 2: up drawing meaning from work. Your risk of drawing all

583
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: of your meaning from work, which would not be healthy.

584
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 2: It's a good thing to be invested in your work,

585
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 2: to care about your work, and I consider myself very

586
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 2: fortunate that the work I do is very meaningful. But

587
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: the other side of the coin is, especially in politics

588
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 2: and public service, in order to be fit for these

589
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,239
Speaker 2: kinds of jobs, you have to know what's worth more

590
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 2: to you than keeping your job, because there may be

591
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 2: some moments where you're confronted with some decision and just

592
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 2: in order to deserve your job, you have to do

593
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 2: something that means that your political career might be a

594
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: risk or might even be over. And so I think

595
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 2: it is that much harder because it's a line of

596
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 2: work where people draw they're meeting their identity from what

597
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: they do, that you have to be in touch with

598
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 2: what's more important than that. I think this is about

599
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 2: to become a challenge for many, many more people if

600
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 2: artificial intelligence continues on the trajectory that a lot of

601
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 2: us are expecting. Then it may really disrupt a lot

602
00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: of people's relationship with their work, or people who cansider

603
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: their work to be a big part of who they are.

604
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: And there are ways we can deal with that, I think,

605
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: making sure that we're all in touch with multiple sources

606
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 2: of belonging, so that if one of those sources of belonging,

607
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 2: which is our work, is changing, that other sources of

608
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 2: belonging like family or community, or service or faith or

609
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 2: I would say nationality, which is not the same thing

610
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 2: as nationalism, I want to be clear about that, but

611
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 2: a certain sense of belonging to an American project. That

612
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 2: all of these things could be a healthy ballast for

613
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: us right now, given what's maybe about to happen to

614
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: a lot of people, especially a lot of white collar

615
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: workers who are facing down this technological change.

616
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big shift, and it's interesting to think

617
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: about what this could mean, you know, in a really

618
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 1: seismic way. You know, I think back to grade school

619
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: and learning about the tectonic plates shifting. It feels like

620
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: that it's like a big enough shift going to reshape

621
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: the world. And at a time when we're figuring that

622
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: out and we're figuring out what service to the American project,

623
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, looks like while we're fighting fascism, you know,

624
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: I know in your home, I know in my home,

625
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: we're also raising toddlers. We're trying to build a picture

626
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: of a future they can be excited about. And you know,

627
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: I know you got lots of reach outs from people

628
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: in your boat, people who appreciated your vulnerability. I know

629
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 1: you got on the apps. That's how you met Chaston,

630
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: which is like one of my favorite stories. You know,

631
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: how do you look at the last few years. Yes,

632
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 1: it's big politically. I mean, you were the Secretary of Transportation,

633
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 1: you were in the administration. You did go do your fellowship.

634
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 1: You're out here stumping for candidates to try to yank

635
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: democracy back, you know, from the jaws of terror. And

636
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: you've done what you said you wanted to do. If

637
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: you made it home, you found your person, you fell

638
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: in love, you have two babies. How do you balance that?

639
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: How do you keep your home and your kiddos and

640
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: your spouse the kind of center of it when the

641
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: world is in this really big moment of a people.

642
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really hard because I think that my work,

643
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 2: you know, My political work requires me to be on

644
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 2: the road a lot. That's how I make myself useful.

645
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: I go out and I campaign for candidates I believe in,

646
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: and I speak out for causes that I believe in,

647
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 2: and I do a lot of media work too, And

648
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 2: it pulls me from home, and it feels like it's

649
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: always intention. And of course, you don't have to be

650
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 2: in politics to be living this. Millions of Americans are

651
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 2: living this tension between what you do for work and

652
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 2: the people you care about the most and wanting to

653
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 2: spend time with them. The other way to look at it, though,

654
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: of course, is that they're a big part of the

655
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 2: reason why I do this. And that's one of the

656
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: biggest things that's changed in my motivations around politics and

657
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 2: public life compared to before we got the incredible phone

658
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: call that changed our lives. Yeah, and I know every

659
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 2: day that whether we succeed or fail in this moment

660
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 2: really shapes the world they're going to live in. They

661
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: don't get a vote, they don't get a voice, they

662
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,720
Speaker 2: don't even know what's happening yet. Therefore, and yet lots

663
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: of decisions that are being made right now in the

664
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: middle of this decade are going to decide by the

665
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,879
Speaker 2: time they are old enough to ask whether we did

666
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: right by them or whether we failed them. And so

667
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: I know that part of my responsibility to them is

668
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 2: to try to be present and be a good father

669
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 2: and be around as much as I can. But another

670
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 2: part of my responsibility to them is to be out

671
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: in the world, using the tools that I have to

672
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 2: try to make it better for them, so that when

673
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 2: I am at the middle of this century, hopefully kicking

674
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: up my heels getting ready to retire, and they're entering

675
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: the thick of it in terms of their careers, that

676
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 2: I can look them in the eye and know that

677
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 2: we did right by them to make sure that this

678
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 2: is a country that had more rights and freedoms than before,

679
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 2: which every generation up until now has been able to say.

680
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 2: But if we get it wrong, then you know, we

681
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: just saw the high water mark of rights and freedoms

682
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: in this country before they started eroding. I mean, that's

683
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 2: it really is as serious as that in terms of

684
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: what the twenty twenties will be remembered for, and on

685
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 2: down the list of things we care about, whether there's

686
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 2: clean air and water for them, whether they can live

687
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 2: in the same communities that I had access to, or

688
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 2: whether some of them have been damaged or made unaffordable

689
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 2: or unlivable because of what's going on in the climate

690
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 2: or other problems that we've created for ourselves in these

691
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 2: last few decades. I mean, this is really and of

692
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 2: course deciding whether AI is going to be something that

693
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: unfolds in a way that empowers people, or whether it

694
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 2: leads to even more extreme concentrations of power in this country.

695
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 2: You know, by the time they're adults, I think the

696
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 2: decisions we make now as a country will have shaped

697
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: what it's like for them.

698
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute after a

699
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: few words from our favorite sponsors. I'm sure you feel this.

700
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: I've always been the person who's like, tell me where

701
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: you need me to be, tiny stump speech at a

702
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: bar in Sherman Oaks. You need me on stage with

703
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: the President, like you need me on the border in

704
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: Tijuana or Texas. I'm there, Like where can I be helpful?

705
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: And it's interesting to fast forward and be in a

706
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 1: position where I really want to be at home. I'd

707
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,439
Speaker 1: rather be at home than anywhere, And sometimes I got

708
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: to leave to love them the best way I know

709
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 1: how Yeah, because if we lose it, we might never

710
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: get it back. You know, you look at countries around

711
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: the world that have been through this stuff, and you go,

712
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: we can't. I don't want to risk it for me

713
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: at forty three, I sure as hell don't want to

714
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: risk it for toddlers.

715
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, they're counting on us.

716
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: Well, I know you said they're getting into lego, which

717
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with. What are some of your favorite things

718
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: to do as a family.

719
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, I mean none of it's really exotic

720
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 2: or you know, would come as much of as as

721
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 2: a surprise. You know. Fridays we like to get pizza

722
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 2: and watch a movie together and they, you know, they

723
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 2: snuggle in their blankets and we watch something. I gotta say,

724
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 2: I'm glad the quality of kids movies has improved from

725
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 2: a parent perspective, I think, compared to what my parents

726
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 2: might have had to work when I was a kid. Totally,

727
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 2: because you know, I don't mind. Okay, there's only so

728
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 2: many times you can watch Frozen, but like, you know,

729
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: the music is good. Like I don't mind watching some

730
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 2: of these movies ten or twenty times. Thirty is pushing it.

731
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 2: But you know, we do stuff like that. We take

732
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 2: them sledding in the winter. We you know, we take

733
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,760
Speaker 2: them swimming as much as we can in the summer.

734
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 2: It's just like it's basic stuff, right, It's not like

735
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,720
Speaker 2: exotic or complicated. It's just being around for the chaos.

736
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: And yeah, when we're home, I'm thrilled at the lego

737
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 2: phases upon us. We're you know, chasting. My husband is

738
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: better than I am about organizing things like setting them

739
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 2: up with like paints and like crafts and stuff. I

740
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 2: struggle with it because they're still at the age where

741
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 2: like you set up all this stuff so they can

742
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 2: paint or something, there's chaos, you're cleaning up paint and like,

743
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 2: you know, twenty minutes into it, they're like ready for it. Yeah,

744
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 2: you know puzzles. I never realized how much becoming good

745
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 2: at puzzles when you're first figuring it out is like

746
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 2: an emotional thing. It's not just it's not just an

747
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 2: intellectual thing, right. So much of it is keeping them

748
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 2: from getting frustrated and giving up. Uh, and and you know,

749
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 2: walking them through that process, and then it's so hard

750
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: not to just pick up the puzzle piece and just

751
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 2: do it for them, right, right, But you know, watching

752
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 2: their little mind figure this, yeah, exactly, Yeah, watching them

753
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 2: figure that out, and you know, reading to them. Luckily,

754
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 2: they love they love reading. They can't read, but they

755
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 2: love reading and they love uh being read to and

756
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 2: even just paging through books. And yeah, and as you know,

757
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 2: as I tell it, it sounds idyllic, it's also hard

758
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 2: because just the attention spans and the chaos, and the

759
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 2: two of them as twins kind of being in each

760
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 2: other's face all the time makes it, you know, real work,

761
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 2: even when you're doing the fun stuff. But there's so

762
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 2: much fun mixed.

763
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: In with it. It's so great. Hey, and I got it.

764
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: I have to give you props. We did it too.

765
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: You survived your first trip to Disneyland. Yes, ate it

766
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: to the other side. You did the magic. It's like

767
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: it was great.

768
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: You know, we had a work trip. I had a

769
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 2: work trip in the LA area, and I was already

770
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 2: in California and rather than taking a red eye and

771
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: turning right around chest and figured it might be worth

772
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 2: trying to have the kids come out, and my mother

773
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 2: in law came to and I got to tell you,

774
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 2: I heard so many things about Disneyland from from the

775
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 2: draggled parents that I was ready to hate it. I

776
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 2: was ready to be realized whole about the whole thing.

777
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 2: But as soon as we got there, I just saw

778
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 2: the magic of it, like the effect it had on them,

779
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 2: the effect it had on me. Like I felt coming

780
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 2: out of it. I almost felt like I was on

781
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 2: this kind of high. I can't explain it, but I

782
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 2: because you know, halfway through the second day I had

783
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 2: to they kept hanging out in the park and I

784
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 2: had to switch into a suit and go do my

785
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,879
Speaker 2: grown up stuff, and I found it hard to kind

786
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 2: of get my brain out of the out of the

787
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 2: kind of zone it was in riding on these rides,

788
00:43:55,680 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 2: and and just yeah, seeing the just the pure joy

789
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 2: that they had was was so fun.

790
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely have the realization. I sort of looked

791
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: around and went, oh, I I I didn't know this

792
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: about myself. I think I'm a Disney adult. I was

793
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: very ready to like Scrooge mcduckett, and it turns out

794
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: I was.

795
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 2: I was all in, No, it really is special. Some

796
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 2: of those rides I'd be happy to do so fun.

797
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: Oh great, at some point we'll have to get all

798
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: the kiddos. I obviously have a million more questions for you.

799
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 1: We'll have to do a follow up at some point.

800
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: You have to be on stage in Indiana, so I'm

801
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: gonna have to skip to the end and ask you

802
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: my favorite question and we'll pick it back up another time.

803
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: Thank you for today. I'm I'm curious. You know. It's

804
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 1: so nice to, of course know you're in the fight

805
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,919
Speaker 1: with us politically, and it's also nice to just hang

806
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 1: out with Pete like not not to make you list

807
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: of of policy and do all the things, but I

808
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: know the span of all of it is alive in you.

809
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: And when you look out from this day in February

810
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: and you think about what's ahead, it could be a

811
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: mix of all those things you know, political, personal, or

812
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: it might just be one specific bug in your ear.

813
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: But what really feels like you're work in progress right now?

814
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 2: I guess my work in progress is helping put together

815
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 2: the coalition that is going to change the trajectory of

816
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 2: our country so that it's really living up to its

817
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 2: ideals by the time my kids are old enough to

818
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,479
Speaker 2: take over the work whenever they decide the work means

819
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 2: to them. So it's all kind of wrapped up in

820
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 2: one but it feels like the work of a lifetime,

821
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 2: and I understand and accept that it's going to take

822
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 2: a very, very long time to deliver on some of this.

823
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. I always say to people political engagement. It's not quick,

824
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 1: it's not sexy, but I do think it's romantic because

825
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a marriage. You're investing in this

826
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 1: thing for your life if you're lucky, and if you're lucky,

827
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: you get to the end and you've succeeded at building

828
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: something really special.

829
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean one are they in the kind of

830
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 2: books about parenting and couples they talk about secure attachment, right, like, Yeah,

831
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 2: you know, I want to feel good about the secure

832
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 2: attachment I have to our country as well. Yeah, yeah,

833
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,760
Speaker 2: there is something, there is something in common there.

834
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, a secure attachment to the American experiment sounds like

835
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: a really nice goal for us. Very cool. Well, thank

836
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today. It's been an

837
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:49,879
Speaker 1: absolute delight. And yes, and not for the podcast, but

838
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: you know, my best friend is a native Detroiter, so

839
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 1: much like, yeah, much like the way you feel about

840
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: South Bend. It's like, that's the way I feel about Detroit.

841
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: People are always like, what are you doing? Here, and

842
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I claim I claim this place for

843
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: twenty years now, so I'm like a hardcore Michigander. So

844
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: we have to do something up in Michigan at some point.

845
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. We definitely took notes from the Detroit Renaissance and

846
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 2: the way people just, yeah, militantly identify with that. That. Yeah,

847
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: I really admire the spirit of what's going on there.

848
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm so excited. I'll be there. I'll be in Detroit.

849
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 1: I think it's like the seventeenth to nineteenth of March.

850
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: So if we happen to be in the same state,

851
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: let's make sure we get our people together, wonderful, our

852
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: husbands and wives. It'll be nice there we go.

853
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 2: Oh good, well, I hope we get the chance and

854
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 2: me too. We're talking about you in the meantime.

855
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: Great, hang you have fun out there today.

856
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 2: Thanks