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Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures

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Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: My name is Zoe Cooper. And the eighth time that

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Speaker 2: I jumped out of an airplane, my parachute did not deploy.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing what your brain will do to protect you

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Speaker 2: in moments of real danger. The intensity with which your

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Speaker 2: brain can zero in on details to survive. It's just survival.

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Speaker 2: We've got these little survival machines in our heads, and

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Speaker 2: it's incredible how easily it can sift out the things

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Speaker 2: that are not necessary for you in those moments and

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Speaker 2: distill your experience down into what is necessary. In our

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Speaker 2: most vulnerable moments, we can be very, very strong, and

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Speaker 2: we don't need to be overcome by fear. And I'm

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Speaker 2: sure it's all circumstantial, but in that moment, for me,

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Speaker 2: I was shocked at the lack of fear. I was

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Speaker 2: conscious of the lack of fear.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous accounts

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Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people whose lives were

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Speaker 1: forever altered after having almost died. These are first hand

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Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences and more broadly brushes with death.

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Speaker 1: Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share these stories

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Speaker 1: to remind us all of our shared human condition. Please

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Speaker 1: keep in mind these stories are true and maybe triggering

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Speaker 1: for some listener, and discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: My parents were both skydivers. They met skydiving. My dad

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Speaker 2: was an instructor for a long time, and I think

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Speaker 2: my mom was just an enthusiast, and they both logged

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Speaker 2: several hundred skydives. My dad made over ten thousand over

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Speaker 2: the course of his life, over ten thousand jumps. So

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Speaker 2: skydiving had always been something that I was brought up

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Speaker 2: with and something that I was told that I was

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Speaker 2: going to do. The first time I ever went skydiving

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Speaker 2: was on my eighteenth birthday, and it was in a

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Speaker 2: little private plane with my dad and his old skydiving buddies,

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Speaker 2: and they just strapped me onto a tandem set and

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Speaker 2: threw me out of a plane. So I very much

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Speaker 2: enjoyed it. But because I had access to friends of

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Speaker 2: the family that had been doing it, I never I

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Speaker 2: never spent the money to go full professional skydiver, you know.

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Speaker 2: I never spent the money to get certified and do

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Speaker 2: everything else. But I did go pretty often and I

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Speaker 2: would go to the drop zone that my parents used

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Speaker 2: to go to because they still had friends there and

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Speaker 2: I could get a discount, or at least they would

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Speaker 2: know who my parents were. So on my birthday, I

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Speaker 2: believe it was my twenty third birthday, I wanted to

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Speaker 2: go again. And I had a friend, a local Atlanta

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Speaker 2: actor friend who had never been skydiving, and he wanted

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Speaker 2: to go too, so he and I. He and I

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Speaker 2: got in the car. We drove out to where the

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Speaker 2: drop zone was. It's about an hour outside of Atlanta,

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Speaker 2: and he had to go through the whole safety procedure

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Speaker 2: and he was super, super excited, and I was excited

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Speaker 2: because this would have been my eighth jump, So I

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Speaker 2: felt like I got to be the veteran who was

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Speaker 2: showing somebody how to have a good time and how

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Speaker 2: this goes, and I got to be the one that

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Speaker 2: was cool and collected while he was very nervous because

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Speaker 2: he was jumping out of a plane for the first time.

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Speaker 2: So Ramsey and I were trying to decide who should

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Speaker 2: go first. What would be more enjoyable for him to

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Speaker 2: watch me jump out of a plane or to jump

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Speaker 2: out first and then be on the ground for me

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Speaker 2: to meet him there, and ultimately we decided that he

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Speaker 2: should go first. And the whole time I remember this

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Speaker 2: so clearly, the whole time we were in the plane

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Speaker 2: and he was just like smiles ears to ears. He

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Speaker 2: was so excited and so was I. And he jumped out.

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Speaker 2: And I was the last one to jump that day

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Speaker 2: because I had done it before, and because the drop

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Speaker 2: zone was a place that was familiar to me. Even

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Speaker 2: though I was going tandem, so I was attached to somebody.

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Speaker 2: The instructor was letting me play so we could do

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Speaker 2: rolls in the sky. I would be the one to

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Speaker 2: pull the rip cord, little things like that that you know,

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Speaker 2: I've done it a few times at this point, so

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Speaker 2: so he was happy to let me do those small things.

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Speaker 2: So we're very cavalier about it. We jump out of

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Speaker 2: the plane. There was no lead up to it. It

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Speaker 2: was a very quick thing. We got to tumble around

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Speaker 2: in the air for a little bit. When it was time,

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Speaker 2: I pulled the rip cord and the parachute it had

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Speaker 2: a hole.

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Speaker 3: In it when it deployed.

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Speaker 2: The small hole ripped open upon impact or upon it deploying,

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Speaker 2: and ripped really really large so there at this point

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Speaker 2: there's probably like a six or eight foot hole in

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Speaker 2: our parachute. Because of the wind that everything else, the

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Speaker 2: parachute would expand and then it would crumple, and when

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Speaker 2: it would crumple, we would drop, and then it would

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Speaker 2: catch another gust of wind and it would sort of

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Speaker 2: reinflate for a moment, and then it would crumple and

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Speaker 2: we would drop. Clearly, you can't land this way, so

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Speaker 2: we had to cut away to our reserve parachute, which again,

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Speaker 2: this is all somewhat standard, I suppose, I mean, it

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Speaker 2: shouldn't happen very often, but just to note it, of

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Speaker 2: reserve parachute is a life saving device. It is not

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Speaker 2: the same as your regular parachute. It's much smaller, it

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Speaker 2: can't withstand wind the same way, but it does its

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Speaker 2: job to save your life. However, by the time we

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Speaker 2: deployed it, we had to cut away from our main parachute,

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Speaker 2: and then we had to give that time to clear

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Speaker 2: before we could deploy it. You can't deploy a reserve

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Speaker 2: choote immediately because you don't want it to get tangled

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Speaker 2: in your primary shoot that you just deployed. So we

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Speaker 2: had to free fall for a lot longer than you

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Speaker 2: would ever want to, and with the fact that we

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Speaker 2: had been doing roles and turns and things in the air,

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Speaker 2: we had already pulled the parachute, probably at the lowest

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Speaker 2: point that you could pull the parachute. So we're at

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Speaker 2: this point dropping very fast, and we're way lower than

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Speaker 2: you should have been. By the time we've pulled the reserve.

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Speaker 2: We never really got to slow down because our first

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Speaker 2: shoot was deflating, so we were gaining speed the whole time.

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Speaker 2: We were going fast. So the way that the rigs

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Speaker 2: set up is that the person, the professional that you're

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Speaker 2: skydiving with, is in a harness. They attaches you essentially

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Speaker 2: to their chest, but so that you can also see

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Speaker 2: and move around. Okay, I positioned lower than him, so

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Speaker 2: my feet are lower down than his feet are, my

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Speaker 2: head is beneath his head, and I'm more or less

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Speaker 2: strapped to his chest. I did not know this. Instructor.

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Speaker 2: He was super great. He was really goofy. He gave

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Speaker 2: me a lot of shit for for not being certified.

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Speaker 2: He was joking with me about how it's completely unacceptable

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Speaker 2: to have done eight skydives to still be skydiving tandem,

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Speaker 2: and in this case, I'm very glad that I was,

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Speaker 2: but he was wonderful. But when the shoot deployed, that happy,

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Speaker 2: go lucky attitude that he had completely fell away. He

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Speaker 2: got very tense. He went into problem solving mode and

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Speaker 2: just started handling things. He went into, you know, life

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Speaker 2: saving emergency mode. I noticed it, but I didn't and

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Speaker 2: I knew what was happening, but I also felt very

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Speaker 2: helpless to the situation. There was nothing that I could

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Speaker 2: be doing, and I had to trust that he was

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Speaker 2: going to just do it. He explained to me right

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Speaker 2: before we pulled the rip cord that we were going

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Speaker 2: to have to pull the ripcord and cut away, and

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Speaker 2: we were going to drop again. And when we did

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Speaker 2: drop again, we were going to roll because when you

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Speaker 2: jump out of an airplane, usually you spread out with

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Speaker 2: your arms and your legs in sort of an exposition

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Speaker 2: with your belly to the ground so that you're flying.

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Speaker 2: But because the parachute had already deployed, we were sitting upright,

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Speaker 2: which means when we drop it again, we were going

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Speaker 2: to roll in the air because we were not positioned

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Speaker 2: to be belly down to the ground. So he prepared

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Speaker 2: me for that, and we did. We rolled and it

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Speaker 2: was fast and that was pretty scary, and pulling the

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Speaker 2: second shoot, the reserve chute did straighten us back out,

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Speaker 2: but it was a sort of rough experience being straightened

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Speaker 2: back out. And by the time the reserve chute was inflated,

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Speaker 2: we were pretty low down to the ground and the

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Speaker 2: wind was not working in our favor. The wind was

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Speaker 2: pushing us straight down. There was no angle that we

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Speaker 2: were having, and we were falling very fast, and the

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Speaker 2: ground is rushing up at you very very quickly when

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Speaker 2: you do a regular skydive where nothing goes wrong. One

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Speaker 2: of the things that I've tried to explain to people

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Speaker 2: before is that it once you're floating, once your parachute's deployed,

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Speaker 2: you're so high up and you're moving at such a

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Speaker 2: pace that until a certain point, it doesn't really feel

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Speaker 2: like the ground is rushing up at you. You really

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Speaker 2: do kind of feel like you're suspended in air and

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Speaker 2: the ground is sort of abstract. It's not something that

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Speaker 2: your brain can super easily comprehen same as when you're

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Speaker 2: in a plane. You know, but as you're falling, the

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Speaker 2: ground isn't getting any bigger. For a while until you're

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Speaker 2: low enough to where you can really start understanding the

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Speaker 2: speed at which you're falling. With the reserve shoot, the

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Speaker 2: ground was coming up, and it was coming up fast,

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Speaker 2: and it felt like it was coming up impossibly fast.

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Speaker 2: It felt like it was coming up too fast, and

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Speaker 2: that there was no sense of control, where in my

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Speaker 2: previous experiences with a regular shoot that deployed successfully, you

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Speaker 2: feel like you know you're going You're going a little fast,

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Speaker 2: and it's a little scary, but it's not anything that

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Speaker 2: doesn't feel like it's within your control. The reserve shoot

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Speaker 2: felt like the equivalent of I don't know, trying to

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Speaker 2: jump off a speeding train. I remember in those moments

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Speaker 2: as we're approaching the trees feeling calm. I was not

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Speaker 2: feeling panicked. I think that it was a fight or

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Speaker 2: flight instinct that takes over. I was not afraid, but

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Speaker 2: I was trying to problem solve. My instructor, who is

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Speaker 2: behind me, explained again what had happened, and he more

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Speaker 2: or less said, I'm going to do everything I can

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Speaker 2: to get us down on the ground safely. I'm going

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Speaker 2: to need you to stay quiet, and I'm going to

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Speaker 2: need you to do anything I say to do as

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Speaker 2: soon as I say to do it without question. By

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Speaker 2: the way, we're way off course at this point. We're

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Speaker 2: nowhere near the drop zone, and we were dropping into

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Speaker 2: farmland that had lots of trees and forest area, and

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Speaker 2: we were dropping what seemed like directly into a bunch

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Speaker 2: of trees, which was pretty scary because I didn't know

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Speaker 2: what was going to happen there. I didn't know if

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Speaker 2: we were going to get hung up in a tree.

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Speaker 2: For a moment, I thought maybe I could grab on

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Speaker 2: to a branch and use that to soften our fall,

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Speaker 2: because we were coming in so hot, we were coming

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Speaker 2: in so fast that I didn't I wasn't sure what

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Speaker 2: the impact would be like. But I also knew that

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Speaker 2: we were coming in so fast that the idea of

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Speaker 2: grabbing onto a tree branch would likely mean ripping my

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Speaker 2: arms out of their sockets. It was not a safe

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Speaker 2: option to grab anything. I had the distinct feeling like

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Speaker 2: we were not going to die. There was a very

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Speaker 2: very clear feeling that this was something we were going

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Speaker 2: to survive. But in the same moment, I completely and

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Speaker 2: fully accepted the fact that I was going to shatter

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Speaker 2: both of my legs and I would probably never walk again.

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Speaker 2: I was certain of it. There was just no way.

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Speaker 2: With the angle that we were coming in and the

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Speaker 2: speed at which we were coming in, there was no

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Speaker 2: way that I was going to land on the gri

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Speaker 2: especially because again I'm positioned a little lower than my instructor,

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Speaker 2: so my feet hit the ground first, and I have

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Speaker 2: the weight of him on top of me and the

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Speaker 2: velocity of the fall, so I have all these factors,

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Speaker 2: and I was certain that my legs were going to shatter. Normally,

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Speaker 2: when you land on a skydive, a proper skydive, and

222
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,920
Speaker 2: you're moving slowly, it depends on the angle at which

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Speaker 2: you're coming in. But a lot of times, if you're

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Speaker 2: coming in kind of fast and you don't want to

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Speaker 2: risk the impact on your legs, you'll stick your feet

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Speaker 2: out in front of you and you'll sort of glide

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Speaker 2: in onto your butt. In this case, that also was

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Speaker 2: not an option. We were coming in too fast and

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Speaker 2: going into my butt would have meant shattering my tailbone

230
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Speaker 2: and potentially damaging my spine. So in this very quick moment,

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Speaker 2: I was forced to accept the safest thing to do

232
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Speaker 2: is to sacrifice both of my legs to shatter my legs,

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Speaker 2: and at the time, I was working on having an

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Speaker 2: acting career, and I was like, great, I'll never be

235
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Speaker 2: an actor. That's fine, And none of it really deterred

236
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Speaker 2: me too much because I was so sure I wasn't

237
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Speaker 2: going to die. I was willing to lose both of

238
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Speaker 2: my legs. In that moment, I knew that I was

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Speaker 2: not going to die. I think that that is the

240
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:13,839
Speaker 2: only thing I can say about that is that it's

241
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,640
Speaker 2: an instinct. I do feel like there was some cognizance

242
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Speaker 2: of the idea that the reserve shoot was doing its job,

243
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 2: but it had slowed us down enough that we would

244
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Speaker 2: survive this fall. But we were going fast enough that

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Speaker 2: it did not feel like there was any option to

246
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Speaker 2: get out of it unscathed. But all I can say

247
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,200
Speaker 2: is that that was a feeling. I had no other

248
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Speaker 2: reason to believe that, because it probably is the equivalent

249
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Speaker 2: of We're coming in really fast way above the tree

250
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Speaker 2: line when I was having these thoughts, and if a

251
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Speaker 2: person were to just jump from that height, they probably

252
00:14:52,800 --> 00:15:01,560
Speaker 2: wouldn't survive. Timing was a very interesting factor in all

253
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Speaker 2: of this. I have no concept of time for all

254
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Speaker 2: of this, and in fact, it felt very, very distinctly

255
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,440
Speaker 2: like time stopped and completely slowed down. So what may

256
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,280
Speaker 2: have been I mean, typically speaking, if I'm not mistaken,

257
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,240
Speaker 2: and again I might be wrong about this, but I

258
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,480
Speaker 2: think that usually from the time that you deploy your

259
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:26,000
Speaker 2: parachute to the time that you land is it's pretty short.

260
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Speaker 2: You're not floating for very long, a matter of minutes

261
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:33,320
Speaker 2: at most a couple of minutes at this stage, from

262
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,320
Speaker 2: the time that our reserve shoote deployed and were a

263
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,960
Speaker 2: bit above the tree line, where we had straightened out

264
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:41,800
Speaker 2: and the ground was rushing up at us and we're

265
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,120
Speaker 2: coming down very fast. I do think that if it

266
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,520
Speaker 2: had deployed for five seconds, we probably would have been

267
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,600
Speaker 2: in a much worse situation than we ended up being in.

268
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:59,359
Speaker 2: But time itself slowed way down. I remember that distinctly

269
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Speaker 2: because I was able to form very well thought out

270
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,320
Speaker 2: plans of action and to determine in my brain whether

271
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 2: or not they would work. So the whole thought process

272
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,600
Speaker 2: of maybe I can grab a tree branch. No, we're

273
00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,520
Speaker 2: going pretty fast, I think that would rip my arm

274
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Speaker 2: sockets out. Well, is that okay? What's better that? Or

275
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,200
Speaker 2: my legs? The whole reasoning process of what I can

276
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,000
Speaker 2: and can't do and why I can and can't do.

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Speaker 2: It felt like that was a normal you know. It

278
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,800
Speaker 2: didn't feel like my mind was racing. It felt like

279
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:31,560
Speaker 2: I was thinking all of that out at a pretty

280
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 2: reasonable speed, and it must have been faster than that.

281
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,320
Speaker 2: I'm sure everything was going very fast, but it did

282
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 2: not feel fast. It felt like everything slowed way, way,

283
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,360
Speaker 2: way down. It felt like from the moment that we

284
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,480
Speaker 2: had deployed the reserve shoot until the moment we hit

285
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:49,520
Speaker 2: the ground was ten minutes. And there's just no way.

286
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,680
Speaker 2: My dad made over ten thousand jumps in his lifetime.

287
00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,640
Speaker 2: He had to cut away to a reserve shoot three

288
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,880
Speaker 2: times in ten thousand jumps, so it's not very common.

289
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,320
Speaker 2: The process of cutting away a reserve shoot is not

290
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,840
Speaker 2: as cool as in the movies. I wish it was

291
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,200
Speaker 2: actually pulling out a knife and sawing through the chords.

292
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,040
Speaker 2: But there's a there's a fail safe mechanism in your

293
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:20,080
Speaker 2: in your parachute rig that will just basically do it

294
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 2: for you. You pull a chord and it just unclips

295
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,680
Speaker 2: those wires that you're attached to, and then you're free

296
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 2: falling again and again. You have to wait for those

297
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,480
Speaker 2: to go away. You don't have to wait very long,

298
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,120
Speaker 2: but you do have to wait to be clear of

299
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,119
Speaker 2: those before you can pull your reserve shoot, which is

300
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,640
Speaker 2: just a different lever. It's a different handle that you pull,

301
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,359
Speaker 2: so it's a pretty quick process. The instructor that I

302
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,760
Speaker 2: was with was amazing. He was doing everything that you're

303
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,160
Speaker 2: supposed to do. He had never had to pull away

304
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,800
Speaker 2: to a reserve shoot before, and he had certainly never

305
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,600
Speaker 2: had to do it while attached to somebody. But I

306
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 2: will say that in those moments of fallings, I trusted him,

307
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 2: but I also wasn't thinking about him. I wasn't thinking, oh,

308
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,359
Speaker 2: I'll let this guy save my life. I was thinking

309
00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,639
Speaker 2: about how I was going to save my life. It

310
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,840
Speaker 2: almost felt like it just did not matter that he

311
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,960
Speaker 2: was there in that moment. I'm sure it did matter

312
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,440
Speaker 2: that he was there. He's the person that saved my life.

313
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Speaker 2: But in those moments where you're dealing with so many

314
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,280
Speaker 2: factors that are in nobody's control, the wind, to the ground,

315
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,239
Speaker 2: everything else, there's only so much he could do, and

316
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,600
Speaker 2: I felt very much like I was going to be

317
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,480
Speaker 2: responsible for for whatever ended up happening. Of course, there

318
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,919
Speaker 2: was only so much I could do, I couldn't be

319
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,919
Speaker 2: the one to pull the reserve shoot. I did not

320
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,919
Speaker 2: have the training that he had for emergency situations. But

321
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,199
Speaker 2: I will say that the one thing I did do,

322
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,960
Speaker 2: which came from years of training at Push Push Theater

323
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:57,440
Speaker 2: in Atlanta, was I am. Since high school, Tim Haberger,

324
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:02,359
Speaker 2: who runs Push Push, had really really strongly pushed physical

325
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,479
Speaker 2: stage acting, and we used to do a lot of

326
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 2: things like pratfalls, and we would jump off of platforms

327
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,480
Speaker 2: and learn how to fall safely. Falling safely is something

328
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,159
Speaker 2: that I had been taught how to do since I

329
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,280
Speaker 2: was in high school, and I was never grade at it,

330
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 2: but I had some training in it. So once we

331
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,480
Speaker 2: got to a point that felt like the equivalent of

332
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,840
Speaker 2: jumping off a box or a very tall probably ten

333
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:31,920
Speaker 2: feet up, I instinctually went into pratfall mode, and I

334
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 2: positioned myself to fall safely, to sort of tumble full.

335
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,920
Speaker 2: So when you fall, you don't lock up. You stay

336
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,119
Speaker 2: as loose as you can, You let your knees come

337
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,400
Speaker 2: up a little bit, and if you can, you fall

338
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,199
Speaker 2: to the side. You position yourself so you're not going

339
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 2: to brace with your arms, so that you don't shatter

340
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,240
Speaker 2: your wrists, and you just sort of position yourself to

341
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,760
Speaker 2: the most well equiped parts of your body to absorb impact,

342
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:59,879
Speaker 2: and you let yourself collapse. It was harder attached to some,

343
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 2: but I do think that that's part of why I

344
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 2: came away with no injuries. That coupled with the fact

345
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 2: that it did rain the night before. We fell into

346
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 2: somebody's farmland and the ground was kind of spongy. No

347
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,119
Speaker 2: no legs, brains, no leg breaks, nothing at all. My

348
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 2: feet hit first, but I very quickly let my feet

349
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,919
Speaker 2: fold and let my knees sort of come up to

350
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 2: my chest and fell to my side. And the ground

351
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 2: was still wet from it raining the night before, and

352
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 2: I'm sure that helped us. And the guy fell on

353
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,920
Speaker 2: top of me, and he was a bigger guy, so

354
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 2: that that that was like the most dangerous part of it,

355
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,439
Speaker 2: was having a full grown man fall on top of me.

356
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 2: Maybe not the most dangerous part, the most painful part.

357
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 2: We both just sort of laid there on the ground

358
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 2: in the wet grass, and I think there was a

359
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 2: long moment of silence. It's early ish in the day

360
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 2: and it smells like cows, it smells like farmland. It

361
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,360
Speaker 2: smells like farm animals, not in an overwhelming way. There's

362
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 2: still a lot of fresh air, but it smells like

363
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 2: the country. The air is cool, but the sun is

364
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 2: out and you can feel the sun, so there's that

365
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 2: direct sun warmth, but with a cool breeze. I'm in

366
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 2: the shade so and I'm aware that I'm in the

367
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: shade from the trees, the shade being a little cooler.

368
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:07,879
Speaker 2: He laughs first, and then I laughed. And I think

369
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:16,120
Speaker 2: the laughter moment is just that feeling when you are

370
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 2: so overcome by emotion. It's not happy laughter or sad

371
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 2: laughter or grateful laughter or anything. It's just it's just,

372
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 2: I think, a release. It wasn't funny, but we did

373
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 2: come out of it completely unscathed, and it felt like

374
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 2: a relief laughter. And it wasn't a long laugh. It

375
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 2: wasn't like a giggle fit or anything like that. It

376
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 2: was just it was just an acknowledgment of the absurdity

377
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 2: of the situation that we just survived, and a release

378
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 2: of all of the tension of whether or not we

379
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 2: were going to survive it. For me, when I think

380
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 2: of this experience, the moments that stand out the most

381
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,959
Speaker 2: are the moment right before going into the tree line,

382
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 2: because I didn't know where the ground was because the

383
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 2: tree line was pretty dense, so I didn't know how

384
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:15,880
Speaker 2: much further I was going to have to fall once

385
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 2: I got past the tree line. So the moment right

386
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 2: before that was very scary, and that was still when

387
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 2: I was questioning whether or not I could grab onto

388
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 2: a tree limb. But it's funny. I remember that moment

389
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 2: above the tree line and the moment specifically of acceptance

390
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 2: that I was going to shatter both of my legs,

391
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 2: and I remember thinking specifically that it was funny that

392
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 2: I was okay with that, and that I was even

393
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 2: a little grateful in that moment because I just knew

394
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 2: that I wasn't going to die, and I felt great.

395
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: It felt like a fair trade to me. I was like, sure,

396
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 2: if I'm going to live, I can be in a

397
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 2: wheelchair for the rest of my life. That's fine, I'll

398
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 2: say again. The second moment, this very visceral, is when

399
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 2: I realized that moment of it kicking in that I

400
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: needed to fall safely. I needed a pratfall like theater

401
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 2: training and taught me how to do. Was another clear moment,

402
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 2: because then it felt like I had something to do,

403
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 2: where before everything was happening to me, that moment felt

404
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 2: like I had to execute something and I had to

405
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: execute it right. So that was a very honed in

406
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: moment for me, and those are the two moments I

407
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 2: think of the most. But I do also very specifically

408
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 2: remember the texture of the ground because it had rained before,

409
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 2: because the ground was wet still and it was spongy,

410
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 2: and we happened to land right on the edge of

411
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: a farm, so there was trees that we went. We

412
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 2: just got past the trees and then there was a

413
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: big open field and we didn't know where we were.

414
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: We had no idea how far off course we were,

415
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 2: none of that. And after a moment of laying in

416
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 2: the sort of spongy, wet ground, I got up. He

417
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 2: was very afraid of me getting up, but I got up.

418
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: I was fine, He was fine. We were both completely unscathed.

419
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,479
Speaker 2: He gave me a hug. He asked if I was okay,

420
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 2: and he said I did a great job. And we

421
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 2: chatted a little bit about whether or not that had

422
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 2: happened before, and we just we were like, okay, we

423
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 2: gotta go, we gotta go find the road, and we

424
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,479
Speaker 2: gathered up the parachute he found the He we had

425
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 2: no idea where the other parachute went. I'm sure they

426
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 2: found it eventually, But we gathered up our reserve parachute

427
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 2: and we got out out of the road and we

428
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 2: started walking, and eventually a pickup truck came and loaded

429
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,239
Speaker 2: us into the back. They had found us. They'd been

430
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 2: out looking the other the drop zone people had been

431
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 2: out looking for us because they could see from the

432
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 2: ground what had happened. They saw us more or less

433
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 2: where we landed. They came and got us. We were

434
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 2: something like two and a half or three miles off course,

435
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 2: we weren't that far away, and we came and when

436
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 2: I got off the truck and was there waiting for me,

437
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: and he was so scared. He was so so scared,

438
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: and I mean in the way that any of us

439
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 2: would have been if we just saw our friend's parachute

440
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 2: malfunction and they dropped going a million miles an hour

441
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 2: into the tree line. He was terrified. And he told

442
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 2: me that he looked over to his instructor when our

443
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: shoot disappeared, and he said, is she gonna be okay?

444
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 3: And his instructor just said, oh, fuck. So Randy thought

445
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 3: I was dead. He was so scared and so grateful.

446
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 3: I was very grateful.

447
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 2: A bunch of people apologized to me, but it was

448
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 2: nobody's fault. It really probably was such a minor tear

449
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 2: that just escalated when the shoot up, and it's nobody's fault,

450
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 2: and I wasn't upset about it. In fact, I was

451
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 2: super grateful that I was with somebody who handled the

452
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: whole thing so well. And then it was done, and

453
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 2: that was that. We went home and I called my

454
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 2: dad and I said, hey, Dad, my parachute didn't deploy,

455
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 2: and he said, congratulations. The moment that I knew that

456
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to die is something that that moment's

457
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 2: the thing that sticks out to me more than anything else, specifically,

458
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: because I don't know how I knew that. I, like

459
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: I said before, I did have somebody with me. I

460
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 2: did have a second parachute that was deployed, but those

461
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 2: things alone weren't necessarily enough to guarantee my survival. And

462
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: this circumstance because we were so close to the ground

463
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 2: when the parachute did deploy, and because the winds and

464
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: everything were working so far against us, and it wasn't

465
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 2: a matter of I felt safe because of those things.

466
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 2: I didn't feel protected because of those things. I don't

467
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 2: have any other way to say it other than a

468
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: crystal clear instinct that today wasn't my day. Today wasn't

469
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 2: my day. It wasn't. It just felt very clear. Even

470
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: though all of the physical indicators said today could be

471
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: your day, my brain went, no, it's not today, and

472
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 2: I don't have any reason for that. And it wasn't

473
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: a decision. It wasn't a will to live. It wasn't

474
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 2: a choice that I made. It was a quick analysis.

475
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: It was a hey, Zoe, you might die, and you're

476
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 2: not going to die today. Yeah, you're not going to

477
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: die today, so let's figure out what is going to

478
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 2: happen today. And that was actually the thing that happened. First.

479
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 2: It wasn't let's all right, team, let's let's figure out

480
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: how we're gonna get out of this. It was, Okay,

481
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 2: you're not gonna die. You're not gonna die. You can

482
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 2: feel that in your heart. You're not gonna die. What

483
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: is going to happen? And that's when the analysis starts going, Okay,

484
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 2: you're gonna break both your legs and then I've got

485
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: the flash's actual physical like imagery flashes of like you know,

486
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 2: being in a hospital bed and then being in a

487
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: wheelchair for the rest of my life. It did occur

488
00:28:58,560 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: to me in those moments, which I think is a

489
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: it's hilarious looking back that I did have a very

490
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 2: brief mourning for my acting career up there and in

491
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 2: the sky, which you know I've had. I've since mourned

492
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: more completely.

493
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 4: But I went through just the quick list of what

494
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 4: is going to happen to you, and then the third

495
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 4: thing that happened was, Okay, what's the game plan.

496
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: I think this experience showed me that we're capable of

497
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 2: a lot. In moments where it feels like we don't

498
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: have any control, we are more capable than we think.

499
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: I think the human body and the human brain are

500
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: absolutely remarkable because I can get overwhelmed and clouded by

501
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 2: emotion when you know a delivery that I've been expecting

502
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 2: doesn't show up on you know, there are things that

503
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 2: can completely ruin your day and can set things off

504
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 2: on a train of nothing's going right and everything just

505
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 2: seems awful. And yet in these moments where it really

506
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 2: matters and where you may or may not make it,

507
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: and everything you've known in your consciousness that exists might

508
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 2: be blinking out soon. It's amazing how clear everything can become.

509
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: And I think it's amazing the intensity with which your

510
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: brain can zero in on details to survive. It's just survival.

511
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 2: We've got these little survival machines in our heads, and

512
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: it's incredible how easily it can sift out the things

513
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: that are not necessary for you in those moments and

514
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 2: distill your experience down into what is necessary. And this

515
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 2: is an opinion that I'm about to express, but I

516
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: believe that because I knew I wasn't going to die,

517
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: emotions became unnecessary and the things that became necessary or

518
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 2: life saving instincts. Whereas I do think that in certain

519
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 2: situations where survival might not be an option that would

520
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: make sense to me, that emotion would then become the

521
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: defining factor because your brain is going to fledge you

522
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: with that in that moment, emotion might be the most

523
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 2: useful thing if there's not a survival option. Who knows.

524
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 2: I don't think that there's Yeah, I don't think there's

525
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 2: an explanation, but fear, elation, sadness, you know, nostalgia. Any

526
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: of those things might be the thing that in real

527
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: final moments might be the thing that's most useful. The

528
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: time slowing down thing was very interesting to me, and

529
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 2: it makes sense, I suppose, when you think about things

530
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: like going into the zone in a basketball game or

531
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 2: whatever else it might be. But I don't feel like

532
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: nothing that happened to me felt like it was. Everything

533
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 2: was a bit of a surprise. I didn't know how

534
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: I would react to any of this. If you had

535
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: told me that I was going to jump out of

536
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: an airplane and the shoe wasn't in a deploy, I

537
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: would imagine that I would be panicking. I would imagine

538
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 2: that I would be I've always I've had morbid fantasies

539
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: before about what would you do if you were in

540
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 2: a plane when the plane went down, And I remember

541
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 2: I used to think that I would try to use

542
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 2: my phone to call, or try to get a text out,

543
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: or write something down so that if they found my

544
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 2: phone that could be later discovered by my loved ones

545
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: that could say, you know, I was thinking of you

546
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: in my last moments. I know that's a very morbid

547
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: thing to say, but you think about these things sometimes

548
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 2: communication and expressing that I loved you. And I've considered

549
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 2: that in a moment of unplanned emergency death, I would

550
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: want to try to get a message out to my

551
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: loved ones that I loved them, and that's how I

552
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: would want to spend my final moments. But in that moment,

553
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 2: that was not That was not on the table, and

554
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: I and I you want that to be on the

555
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 2: table because you want to think that, like, oh, that's

556
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: a really beautifu last thing to happen, But it wasn't.

557
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 2: In my experience, it really was just a Hey, we're

558
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: going to get out of this? How are we going

559
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 2: to get out of this? For me, it informs the

560
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 2: way I think about death and about how it's amazing

561
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 2: what your brain will do to protect you in moments

562
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 2: of real danger. And again, I know that every circumstance

563
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 2: is going to be different, but I think about it

564
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: a lot in terms of actual death. I don't believe

565
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 2: that at the time of this experience that I had

566
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: any concept of how I was going to die. I

567
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 2: was not raised with any kind of religion. I was

568
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 2: both of my parents were atheists, and so I was

569
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: raised to sort of believe that nothing happens when we die.

570
00:33:54,320 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 2: And I was raised in a way that of course

571
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 2: we're all going to fear death, but I was I

572
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 2: don't know. But no, I didn't receive or I never

573
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 2: knew how I was going to die at the time.

574
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 2: I have since had premonitions of how I would die.

575
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,959
Speaker 2: And it's not in an airplane. It's in a car.

576
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: And I hope I'm wrong, But there is an interesting thing.

577
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 2: And I will say that I did think of this

578
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 2: experience when I had that premonition, because the thought that

579
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: I had of it was a similar acceptance. It wasn't

580
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 2: a pleasant thought, and again I hope that it's not true.

581
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 2: But when I did have that thought, it was a

582
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 2: flash that came into my mind out of nowhere, completely uninvited,

583
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 2: and it was images of what that those very final

584
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: moments would be. And along with it came a distinct

585
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 2: feeling of acceptance. And you know I wouldn't. Happiness is

586
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 2: not on the table here, neither is sadness. There's no

587
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: emotion attached to it. It's just a clear It's like

588
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: stating a fact, same as you know sky's bluegrass is green.

589
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 2: This is how you go. And again I hope I'm wrong,

590
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 2: because I don't want to go that way. What I

591
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: would like to happen is to die at one hundred

592
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 2: and ten in my sleep, you know, but who knows.

593
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: But I do think it is interesting that that's the

594
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 2: only other time that I've ever had a completely emotionless

595
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 2: response to the idea of my own death. At the

596
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 2: same time, it's impossible to not think about other people's

597
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 2: near death experiences or other people's actual death experiences, and

598
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 2: I feel very privileged and very fortunate to be able

599
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 2: to say things like I wasn't scared and it's not scary,

600
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 2: because I don't want to. I don't want to suggest

601
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: that it's not scary for everyone. I don't want to

602
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: suggest that it's not like that in everyone's final moments

603
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 2: that they're they're feeling very zen about it. But in

604
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 2: my moment, I was feeling very zen about it. And

605
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 2: a carry away for me has been that in my

606
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 2: actual final moments, I think I will feel that too,

607
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 2: and which is further bolstered by the fact that in

608
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 2: my pseudo premonition about how I may or may not die,

609
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 2: I feel very zen about it. I don't want it,

610
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 2: but I feel zen about it. There's one overwhelming thing

611
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 2: that I was loved with with this experience that I

612
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 2: love and I'm very grateful for. And I had no

613
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: idea that this would be my takeaway, but I think

614
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 2: about it often, which is that in those final moments,

615
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: or what could have been a final moment, in those

616
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: uncertain moments for me, in that moment, there was no

617
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 2: fear for me. In that moment, there was no fear.

618
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 2: It was not and I don't say that to sound

619
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 2: like I'm brave. It's that there was too many other

620
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 2: things that I had to think about. And granted I

621
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 2: didn't have a heart stopping moment, and I did have

622
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: a reserve shoot and I had somebody with me, so

623
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 2: there my near death experience was in many ways more

624
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: controlled than a lot of others. But it was still

625
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: uncertain for a while. And in those moments of uncertainty,

626
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 2: my life didn't flash before my eyes. I wasn't thinking

627
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 2: about my loved ones and what I wish I could

628
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 2: have said to them. I wasn't thinking about regrets or

629
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: anything emotional. I was thinking about how I was going

630
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 2: to save my life. But it was done without fear.

631
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 2: It was done with complete confidence and I appreciated that,

632
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 2: and I've carried that forward into the idea of in

633
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 2: our most vulnerable moments, we can be very very strong

634
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: and we don't need to be overcome by fear. And

635
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's all circumstantial, but in that moment, for me,

636
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: I was shocked at the lack of fear. I was

637
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: conscious of the lack of fear. And I've taken that

638
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 2: and I've held that, and that's been that's been a

639
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,399
Speaker 2: big thing for me going forward and thinking about other

640
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: people who I've known who have passed away since, and again,

641
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: every circumstance is going to be very different. I'm sure

642
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 2: there that I'm I'm very lucky in that regard. But

643
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 2: the quiet acceptance of things, even the quiet acceptance of

644
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to shatter both of my legs and I'm

645
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 2: okay with that, was overwhelming. The the the amount of

646
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: emotion that was not involved was really really shocking. And

647
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 2: that's something that that I've that's stuck with me. Would

648
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 2: I do it again, I would absolutely And at the

649
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 2: time the day that I the day that this happened,

650
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 2: I would have gone again that same day if you

651
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 2: would let me. And I think that that same day,

652
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 2: I was feeling not invincible, but I was feeling very present,

653
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 2: and I was feeling very very open to experience and

654
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: to doing things. I also was feeling very much like, well,

655
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: this probably won't happen again, so I should probably get

656
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 2: up in a plane and do this again, because what

657
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 2: are the odds there would happen twice. But I think

658
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 2: that if anything, it has made me, it has made

659
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 2: it a little easier to be present and to accept

660
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 2: things as they are coming, and for a time, I

661
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 2: would say probably made me a bit more adventurous because

662
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: of that. I don't think, I'm certain that this experience

663
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 2: made me more comfortable with the idea of my own death.

664
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 2: Of course, I'm still scared of it. Of course I

665
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 2: don't want it to happen. But the major takeaway that

666
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: I had from it that I do believe is that

667
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 2: in my final moments, and again I can't speak to

668
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 2: anybody else, but I do believe that in my final moments,

669
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 2: I'll be okay with it. And that was a takeaway

670
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 2: that I got from this experience.

671
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 5: You can be okay with anything when you're faced with reality,

672
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 5: and I believe that for me, in those final moments,

673
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 5: I'll be terrified leading up to it.

674
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 2: I'll be terrified thinking about it. I don't want it

675
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 2: to happen. I don't like thinking about it, but I

676
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 2: do believe that in those last moments, I'll be okay.

677
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 2: And I think that this experience gifted me with that.

678
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 2: I have, ever since this experience, felt very strongly that

679
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 2: it's our responsibility in life to live it. And because

680
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 2: you don't know when you're going to do something that

681
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 2: might be your last thing, we are not guaranteed anything,

682
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 2: and I know everybody knows that, but it kind of

683
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 2: stares you in the face a little bit when you

684
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 2: come close. And I have absolutely tried to live my

685
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 2: life in a way that's consciously aware of the fact

686
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 2: that I'm going to die, and I think it's it's

687
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 2: been a way wonderful thing to remember always that you

688
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 2: don't know and you can't control, and the best thing

689
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 2: you can do to face your own death is to

690
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: live your life.

691
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: Welcome back, This is Alive again. Joining me for a

692
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,479
Speaker 1: conversation about today's story. Are my other Alive against story

693
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: producers Lauren Vogelbaum, Nicholas Dakowski, and Brent Die And I'm

694
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: your host Dan Bush. Let's talk about Zoe Cooper, the

695
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: one and only.

696
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 6: One of my favorite human beings in the right.

697
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: One of the most cool.

698
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 6: Is really impossible if you the universe Zoe to not

699
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 6: just automatically fall completely in love. She's just like such

700
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 6: a cool, sweet, funny, smart as hell. One of the

701
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 6: best writers I've ever amazing writer, just impressive. Yeah, oh

702
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 6: my god, freaking brilliant. She wrote on that show Teacup

703
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 6: and she she wrote, uh, mantak caves with you and I, Yeah,

704
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 6: that was.

705
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: She wrote on a twelve Ghost, didn't she?

706
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 6: And she wrote on yep, she wrote on twelve Ghost

707
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 6: thirteen Days Twelve Ghosts episode of Thirteen Days of Halloween.

708
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 6: If I want my work torn apart and put back

709
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 6: together again, I'll send it to Zoe because she is

710
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 6: absolutely brilliant on things like story structure and character and

711
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 6: does not pull punches, which I appreciate give she gives

712
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 6: amazing notes. Yeah. I just can't speak highly enough about

713
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 6: this human being.

714
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,040
Speaker 7: And I had no idea that this was part of her.

715
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: Her experience and what happened to her brain in this

716
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: heightened this moment of heightened awareness as she's got seconds

717
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: to decide how she's going to you know, maneuver in

718
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: this situation. That's so fascinating to me. I've got to

719
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: go find a neurologist to talk to about these things

720
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: like the the experience of time dilation and how that

721
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: works in the brain, and the experience of fear and

722
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: how your brain could shut off your amignala in times

723
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: of hyper awareness when your life is at risk. Her story,

724
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: I just you know, when I re listened to it,

725
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, this is one of

726
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:35,800
Speaker 1: our best stories.

727
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's really intense, and you know, it does

728
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 6: remind me of another episode that we've done on Derek McManus,

729
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 6: who was the you know, Special Forces rescue guy who

730
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 6: got shot a bunch of times. The way that their

731
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 6: brains worked in those moments seemed so similar.

732
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 7: To me, so analytical.

733
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 6: They both just went into problem solving mode and both

734
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 6: had this sense of innate optimism about them in these

735
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 6: situations that like, I've got to get to the other

736
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 6: side of this is going to be totally fine, And

737
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 6: that is incredibly impressive to me, and I wonder if

738
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 6: I'm capable of doing the same thing. Hopefully I'll never

739
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 6: find out hopefully, I, like Zoe said, die in my

740
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 6: bed asleep. At one hundred and ten.

741
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: She came out of this whole experience going, Okay, when

742
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 1: it's my time, there's a possibility because of what I experienced,

743
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: and she holds onto this that I will not be afraid.

744
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: That your mind is this wonderful machine that is built

745
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: for survival and it's built to protect you. So she

746
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: took hope in the idea that you know, when it's

747
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: her time, she might be able to also not have

748
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: that fear, so it won't be a horrific sort of

749
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 1: fear that goes along with that. She said, Now, these

750
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 1: conditions are specific to what happened to her, and these

751
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: circumstances are not all circumstances, but just that she had

752
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: gone through this and had this experience of fearlessness or

753
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,919
Speaker 1: not even fearlessness, there just wasn't It wasn't about fear

754
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: at all. It was about survival mode. Just the way

755
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,760
Speaker 1: she integrated these experiences into how she sees her future

756
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: and how it sort of made her even more willing

757
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: to take some risks, I think, is what she said.

758
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 8: I thought it was amazing how her theater training is

759
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 8: what saved her.

760
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 7: Saved by theater training.

761
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: Yes, for the first time in history.

762
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 6: I think half of the people on this call have

763
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 6: actually worked with Push Push, the theater that she was talking about.

764
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 6: I think if if any theater's training was going to

765
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 6: save your life.

766
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 7: Mm hmm, yeah, learning how to take a pratfall is

767
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 7: way up there.

768
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, no, absolutely.

769
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,919
Speaker 8: We've had a couple of stories like this, I can't

770
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 8: think of them off the top of my head, where

771
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 8: the thing that that person was really into is a

772
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 8: thing that came back in their moment and help them,

773
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 8: Like like Dwayne Meadows talking about his knowledge of marine

774
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 8: biology when he was stuck in the tsunami in Thailand,

775
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 8: you know, like where I know what's coming because I

776
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 8: have this thing I've devoted my life to and it's

777
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 8: helping me in this last moment. And Les Cochrane her

778
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 8: experience as a diver helped her survive the fires in Lina.

779
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 8: And a lot of these stories too are you know,

780
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 8: there's stories about people on the brink of death. But

781
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 8: what I've found is a lot of these stories are

782
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 8: really about the thing that that person loved the most,

783
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 8: you know. So it was really interesting to see how

784
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 8: Zoe about her theater experience and her her love of acting,

785
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 8: and you know, and the recognition that she may not

786
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 8: be able to act if if she crushes her legs

787
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 8: in this fall. You know, I just think it's it's

788
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 8: really it's always been interesting to me how much the

789
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 8: way the person lived their life comes comes comes out

790
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 8: in these final these what could be their final moment.

791
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: Right Like Derek McManus, who was shot for teen times,

792
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: he's langlare, He's like, well, I might be a gold

793
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: medallist now because you know, in the Paralympics. And then

794
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: and then Zoe's like, oh, well, I guess I'm gonna

795
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,479
Speaker 1: you know, I'll never be an actor again, but okay,

796
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: I'll make that bargain.

797
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 6: And now she's a fantastic writer, right.

798
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 8: Or there's she people like Drew Cybert who are like,

799
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 8: I'm going to take this experience of being a paraplegic

800
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:23,919
Speaker 8: and I'm going to go on to get my law

801
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 8: degree and help veterans who have lost the benefits that

802
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 8: have been guaranteed to them because I understand what they're

803
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 8: going through. You know, I just think it's really interesting

804
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 8: how how in that moment they can they can see

805
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 8: their future, you know what I mean, Like not only

806
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 8: and Zoe knew she was going to survive that, which

807
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 8: is another interesting thing.

808
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 6: She's like, no, no, I'm going to get through this.

809
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 8: It's just how am I gonna adapt after.

810
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: All the bargains that she was making on the way

811
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 1: down in the split seconds, like it must have been

812
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: just maybe ten seconds in that last little bit. But

813
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 1: timeslod and stretch, which I guess they say is mostly

814
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: a memory effect, not a real time yeah obviously, but.

815
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 7: It's it's how your brain is recording everything, not how

816
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 7: you're literally experiencing it.

817
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: Right, and you you're recording, you're taking in so much

818
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: more information in a short period of time that you're

819
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: clocking all of that. And then so when you play

820
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: it back, of course, it seems like more than Yeah,

821
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: when you play back in your mind, it seems like

822
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: more than you would in a normal experience.

823
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 7: Feel normally, we're just not recording that part or that fast.

824
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 6: The brain is so weird in that way. Yeah, it's

825
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 6: you know, it's so similar to uh, I when you

826
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 6: learn what deja vu really is. Uh It's it's when

827
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 6: you're the part of your brain that that makes memories

828
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 6: is the one that's like, your lord, you seem to

829
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 6: know what this is. Can you explain this better?

830
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've explained it before. Can you explain it for

831
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: us again?

832
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay.

833
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 7: So deja vu is this thing where essentially the part

834
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 7: of your brain that is telling you what you are

835
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 7: currently experiencing gets a little bit miswired and it kind

836
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 7: of punts whatever is happening in front of you into

837
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 7: the this is a memory part of your brain and

838
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 7: then like like like you are like, oh, this has

839
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 7: happened before.

840
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 2: No, it's just your brain miswire.

841
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's just a processing error. Yeah, which you know,

842
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,919
Speaker 6: it's cool to know that, but also kind of a

843
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 6: bummer to take the manage it away.

844
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: Can you guys imagine making bargains like the way she

845
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: was making a bark. She's like, Okay, well I guess

846
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: I'll I'll lose my acting career, but and I'll lose

847
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: my legs, but I'll live, so okay, And she's like

848
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: becoming okay, like the things you're willing to shed off,

849
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: the layers you're willing to drop away as you're approaching

850
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: the inevitable crash.

851
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 6: You know.

852
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 7: I think she went through all the stages of grief

853
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 7: in like seven seconds, Ye blasted through them and was like, well,

854
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 7: all right, that's fine. Damn right.

855
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 8: Yeah, I would say there are no atheists in a

856
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 8: fox hole, and a lot of that is just people going, Okay,

857
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 8: I'm about to die?

858
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 6: What what?

859
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 8: What deal am I going to make with whatever force

860
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 8: there is? That With Zoe it was herself to make

861
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 8: to make myself to get out of this situation. You know,

862
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 8: how am I going to adjust my life to whatever

863
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,760
Speaker 8: reality I'm going to be living in when I come.

864
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 2: Out of this.

865
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: I love how she described the moment when they realized

866
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 1: that they were unscathed and they were in this wet

867
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: field that was kind of spongy and helped absorb some

868
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: of the impact. And then she described the laughing, not

869
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: because it was funny because but just because it was

870
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: this huge release, yeah, from all of the heightened stuff,

871
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 1: Like she couldn't be emotional during the moment to moment,

872
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: split second decisions that was rapid firing through a brain

873
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: of taking in information, figuring out how to you know,

874
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: which choices to make as quickly as possible, and then

875
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, when all that was gone, the

876
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: emotions just flooded in and they came out as laughter,

877
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:01,919
Speaker 1: just this release. That was kind of a beautiful moment.

878
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,919
Speaker 8: It's amazing that how long does it take to jump

879
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 8: from a plane and land of the ground, Like maybe

880
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 8: a minute in twenty seven seconds, and it took her

881
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 8: thirty minutes to tell the story, you know, like that

882
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 8: much went on in that short period of time. And

883
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 8: I think I remember you telling me that you weren't

884
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 8: quite sure that this story would fit the format of

885
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 8: the show. I'm not quite sure why, because it seems

886
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 8: to fit it perfectly. You know, it's like, how are

887
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 8: you going to reckon with this moment? But so much

888
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 8: of it it wasn't about like how does it transform

889
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 8: your life after the moment. It was just like so

890
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 8: much went into telling the story of what happened in

891
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 8: those in that minute twenty seven seconds or however long

892
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 8: it takes to I'm going to look up on Google

893
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 8: it takes to jump out.

894
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 1: I was wrong, No, I think I was just early on.

895
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: I was just kind of it was my first story

896
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: and I was like, this is not an actual clinical

897
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,280
Speaker 1: near death experience where there's an out of bout experience,

898
00:51:58,000 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: you know, And I was I was thinking more in

899
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: terms of, you know, how does somebody undergo massive trauma,

900
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: bodily traumas and things like that. And I was sort

901
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: of searching for what the show was. And now I've

902
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: gotten to a point here at the end of season

903
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: one where I'm like, oh, I know what the show is. Yeah,

904
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: it's it's just about all things that have to do

905
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: with being human when you're pushed up against the edge

906
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: of life, you know, so it's about being alive again.

907
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 1: And this did inform her sense of agency going forward,

908
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: and still does.

909
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 8: I just looked it up and it said a skydive

910
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 8: usually takes five to six minutes with approximately fifty seconds

911
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 8: in free fall, so she would have had four to

912
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 8: five minutes of this terror.

913
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: No, she they pulled the shoot after being able to

914
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: tumble for three or four minutes. So when they pulled

915
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: the shoot and it started to fail, they only had

916
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:46,879
Speaker 1: about a minute left.

917
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:47,240
Speaker 2: Jeez.

918
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, because that four to five is a lot of

919
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:54,720
Speaker 7: drifting and yeah.

920
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 8: And you fall faster when there's no parachute.

921
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

922
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 7: I also was it was interesting to me she talks

923
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:06,399
Speaker 7: as many of our interviewees talk about wanting to reach

924
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 7: out to family in this scary moment about having about

925
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 7: feeling that connection to loved ones and wishing that there

926
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 7: was a way that she could reach out, which a

927
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:19,280
Speaker 7: reminded me of Aaron's story of getting his arm crushed

928
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 7: in the canyon and how he used his you know,

929
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 7: not literal but like technological connection to his loved ones

930
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 7: through his camera as like a psychological lifeline in those moments.

931
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 7: But also it was kind of funny because like Zoe

932
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 7: was not alone, she was physically connected to another human person,

933
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 7: and in a way that in a lot of our

934
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,799
Speaker 7: stories people are very alone in those moments. And I

935
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 7: don't know, it's just it's so interesting to me because

936
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 7: like she talks about both feeling glad, feeling like logically

937
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 7: comforted that he's there because he knows what he's doing

938
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 7: and he's an experienced dude, but also how she still

939
00:53:55,760 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 7: felt very much personally responsible and kind of on her own,

940
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 7: and that she wasn't even really thinking about him, and

941
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 7: so like that part of the psychology, I was like, huh,

942
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,280
Speaker 7: Like even, yeah, like we are all truly alone.

943
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 2: Kind of one of those moments.

944
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: Next time I'm Alive Again, Australian Star Group officer Derek

945
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: McManus was shot fourteen times in under five seconds and

946
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: left bleeding on the ground for nearly three hours while

947
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 1: a siege raged around him.

948
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 9: And I'll always retain this sense of optimism no matter

949
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 9: what happens to me. And my body is closing down,

950
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 9: He's still firing continuously. Well, it's pounding through the bricks.

951
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 9: And then I don't know if you know guys in

952
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 9: the Special Forces, but we have a slightly bigger ego

953
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 9: than the average person, and that ego kicked in and

954
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 9: while I'm lying on the ground my body's closing down,

955
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 9: I start thinking to myself, I'm damn good at basketball.

956
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 9: If I can add something to what they're already doing, well,

957
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 9: we may make the Paralympic finals, may end up with

958
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 9: a gold medal.

959
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Zoe Cooper for sharing your story. Zoe

960
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,360
Speaker 1: is a film and TV writer and director based in

961
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, California. Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney,

962
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: Brent die Nicholas Dakowski, and Lauren Vogelbau. Music by Ben Lovett,

963
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:23,760
Speaker 1: additional music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew

964
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: Frederick and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for

965
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:31,240
Speaker 1: additional production support. Our studio engineers are Rima L. Kali

966
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: and Noames Griffin. Our editors are Dan Bush, Gerhartslovitchka, Brent

967
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: Die and Alexander Rodriguez. Mixing by Ben Lovett and Alexander Rodriguez.

968
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dan Bush. Alive Again is a production

969
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: of I Art Radio and Psychopia Pictures. If you have

970
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: a transformative near death experience to share, we'd love to

971
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 1: hear your story. Please email us at Alive Again project

972
00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. That's a l I ve A

973
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: g A I N P R O j E C

974
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:14,320
Speaker 1: T at gmail dot com.