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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, missing Texas mom, luxury realtor.

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Speaker 1: Suzanne Simpson's DNA just found on her husband's hand held

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Speaker 1: reciprocating saw.

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Speaker 2: Let that sink in a moment.

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Speaker 1: Her DNA is on her husband's hand held reciprocating saw.

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Speaker 1: Why Imancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us.

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Speaker 3: They met in college at the University of Texas.

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Speaker 2: Nice guy, charismatic, engaging.

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Speaker 3: You know, Suzanne was a little tiny thing.

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Speaker 4: But for Suzanne, it wasn't perfect time.

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Speaker 3: It's just tragic.

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Speaker 5: Man.

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Speaker 3: I can't even imagine she didn't deserve that at all.

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Speaker 1: If just the thought of Suzanne's body out decomposing in

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Speaker 1: a trash site or a.

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Speaker 2: Disposal site is getting worse.

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Speaker 1: The hand held reciprocating saul belonging to the husband absolutely

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Speaker 1: hass Anne Simpson's DNA on it? Why why would that

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Speaker 1: be there? Take a listen to what the almost pdchief

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Speaker 1: had to say.

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Speaker 6: So we're holding out hope that maybe, you know, maybe

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Speaker 6: she's trying to be away from the home, to get

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Speaker 6: away from that situation. That's not totally uncommon, but what

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Speaker 6: is uncommon. What is unusual is that this was a

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Speaker 6: woman who worked and was very dependable and loved her

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Speaker 6: children and was always in contact with her children and

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Speaker 6: her family and her friends. We would love for her

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Speaker 6: to be alive. Obviously, there's nothing concrete that says she's

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Speaker 6: not alive. And again I owe it to the family.

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Speaker 6: We all owe it to the family to speak of

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Speaker 6: her in a way where other people have been found,

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Speaker 6: like I said, injured and distressed, lost, troubled, hiding away,

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Speaker 6: all of those things are possible.

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Speaker 1: Our friends at WAI joining me in Ulster panel to

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Speaker 1: make sense of what we are learning right now.

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Speaker 2: This is not the update I wanted to report to

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Speaker 2: you tonight.

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Speaker 1: For first out to Zachary Taylor Wright joining us, a

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Speaker 1: trending digital reporter with my essay my san Antonio. Zachary,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. Explain to

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Speaker 1: me how the husband's reciprocating saw.

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Speaker 2: You know what?

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Speaker 1: Just pause, Zachary. I want to hear everything you've got

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Speaker 1: to say. But for people that don't know what a

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Speaker 1: reciprocating saw is, let me go to doctor Kendall Crown's

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Speaker 1: joining us, the chief medical examiner in Tarrett County. That's

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Speaker 1: Fort Worth, the Texas jurisdiction esteemed lecturer at the Burnett

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Speaker 1: School of Medicine TCU, Doctor Kendall Crown, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for being with us. Before I get into your

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Speaker 1: usual topics, and that is the discovery of bodies. What

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Speaker 1: you can tell from bodies, what you can tell from

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Speaker 1: an autopsy. Could you explain and demonstrate what is a

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Speaker 1: reciprocating saw?

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Speaker 7: Certainly so. Reciprocating saws are saws that use a blade.

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Speaker 7: They actually have mine here is a large, fairly large saw.

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Speaker 7: It has a blade that goes backwards in the forwards,

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Speaker 7: which is the reciprocating.

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Speaker 5: Movement of the saw.

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Speaker 7: And they can be used to cut through metal, wood, bone, tissue,

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Speaker 7: you name it. They use them in the meat cutting

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Speaker 7: industry to cut apart cattle.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, let me see that again. Could you turn

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Speaker 1: that on one more time, Doctor Kimlin.

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Speaker 8: Crown's sure.

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Speaker 2: Jeff Horny is joining me, right, I heard it. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Horny is with us right now, joining us from

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Speaker 1: San Antonio, longtime friend of both Susanne and Brad Simpson,

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Speaker 1: her husband, Jeff Horny.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how you can sit there and look

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Speaker 2: at that saw.

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Speaker 1: It looks like a giant version of the electric knife

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Speaker 1: people use at Thanksgiving and Christmas to cut a turkey

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Speaker 1: or a roast or something.

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Speaker 2: Sure he knew what he was doing. Look at that, knowing, Suzanne.

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Speaker 3: It's terrible, sad and disgusting actually, And he's a hunter.

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Speaker 3: You know, if you've used one of those saws, you

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Speaker 3: know that it's not real clean. It doesn't just make

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Speaker 3: a beautiful clean cut. And yes, I saw him in

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Speaker 3: the courtroom and he looked like he'd been doing push

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Speaker 3: ups for months.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 3: He looks like a thug is what he looks like,

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Speaker 3: what he's turned out to be.

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Speaker 7: So it's sad.

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Speaker 9: Man.

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Speaker 1: We were talking to Jeff Horny, who's been a longtime

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Speaker 1: friend of not only Suzanne, the missing mom, but the husband.

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Speaker 2: Zachar Chell are right.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for holding a trending digital reporter with my

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Speaker 1: sa My san Antonio. Zachary, again, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. I want to backtrack just a moment. You know,

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Speaker 1: I just heard Jeff Horny state that the husband, who

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Speaker 1: is presumed innocent under the law, these are just allegations

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Speaker 1: right now, Zachary.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how him.

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Speaker 1: Being a hunter has anything to do with his wife's

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Speaker 1: DNA being on a reciprocating so oh, I do I

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Speaker 1: do know the.

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Speaker 2: Connection he made.

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Speaker 1: He was making the connection that the saw could be

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Speaker 1: let me just say, contaminated or still caked with animal

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Speaker 1: detrit us from prior hunting trips.

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Speaker 2: I don't know a nice way to say it. That's

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Speaker 2: why I'm searching for the words.

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Speaker 1: But Zachary Taylor right, tell me how and where this

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Speaker 1: reciprocating saw it was discovered.

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Speaker 8: So the reciprocating saw was discovered in Brett's possession and

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Speaker 8: their believing their family home, but it was hidden away,

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Speaker 8: which is part of his accusations against him, is that

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Speaker 8: he attempted to conceal it from investigators. And of course

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Speaker 8: the DNA did link back to Susannah.

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Speaker 1: Zachary, you stated that the DNA is found on Simpson's saw,

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Speaker 1: but where was the saw?

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Speaker 8: The recif forgetting saw was found in Brad Simpson's.

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Speaker 2: Toolbox, you know, Zachary Tailor right?

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Speaker 1: Joining us from my san Antonio, Zachary, I understand that

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Speaker 1: the husband, Brad Simpson, tried to hide the saw.

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Speaker 8: Absolutely, So that's part of the accusations made against him,

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Speaker 8: is that he attempted to conceal the saw from investigators initially,

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Speaker 8: and so when they were able to find it and

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Speaker 8: thenk it back to Suzanne, they charged him with tampering

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Speaker 8: with evidence.

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Speaker 1: Well, if it's right there in his toolbox, I don't

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Speaker 1: understand how he's trying to hide it. I'm certainly not

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Speaker 1: taking his side.

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Speaker 2: But you know, Ben Power.

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Speaker 1: Is joining me, high profile defense attorney at legal Powers.

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Speaker 2: Then the worst thing.

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Speaker 1: You can do if this ever makes it to a

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Speaker 1: jury is for the prosecutor to state something in opening statements.

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Speaker 2: Like yes, and he tried to hide the saw, and

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Speaker 2: then it comes out that he didn't.

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Speaker 1: Because if you're wrong as a prosecutor on one fact,

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Speaker 1: it taints everything else. It takes your good facts. So

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Speaker 1: when you stand up in front of a jury and

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Speaker 1: you say he tried to hide the saw, because you

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Speaker 1: know what the hiding part is the big indicator that

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Speaker 1: something the faarius has occurred. Being Powers, how do I

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Speaker 1: know she didn't try to use the saw one time

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Speaker 1: and cut her finger on I mean, it could be

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Speaker 1: a million things, but the fact that he then tried

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Speaker 1: to hide it puts.

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Speaker 2: It in a whole another light.

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Speaker 5: Been Powers, Yeah, I agree, I think it's important that

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Speaker 5: if you're going to use the accusation that he tried

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Speaker 5: to hide the saw, and it turns out his toolbox. Obviously,

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Speaker 5: where that toolbox is found and you have the key

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Speaker 5: to hariving it, is trying to hide it. But I

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Speaker 5: agree with that. You just said you don't want to

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Speaker 5: lose credibility jury overstating or trying to extend your proof

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Speaker 5: beyond which your proof actually can show. And so I

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Speaker 5: think the importance to the saw in this context is

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Speaker 5: how its thread in the larger tapestry of the story.

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Speaker 5: And so I wouldn't unnecessarily try to extend it past

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Speaker 5: its value, which is her DNA's on the saw. And

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Speaker 5: for the States, that's a good fact. For the defense,

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Speaker 5: that's certainly a problem we're gonna have to address the trial.

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Speaker 1: Let me nail this down, Zachary tail all right, if

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Speaker 1: the saw with his wife's DNA on it, And you

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Speaker 1: know another thing I got to find out, Zachary, and

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Speaker 1: we may not know it yet, is it blood?

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Speaker 2: Because just go with me for a moment. Do I

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Speaker 2: believe this is true?

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Speaker 1: No? Could one's your or believe it absolutely? What if

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Speaker 1: she was using a saw and she cut herself through it?

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Speaker 2: I believe this.

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Speaker 1: Luxury real estate mom was out working with a reciprocating saw.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't, okay, but that is a legitimate argument

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Speaker 2: to be made to a jury. Or Zachary, what if.

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Speaker 1: It is bone, Now that's a whole another can of worms.

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Speaker 1: What if it is hair? Hair, It could be a

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Speaker 1: number of things that would clearly tell a jury that

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Speaker 1: the saw was used on her to dismember her. So, ay,

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Speaker 1: I gotta nail down. Is it true he tried to

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Speaker 1: hide it? And you know what, Zachary, when you don't

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Speaker 1: know a horse, look at his track record.

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Speaker 2: We already know he asked a friend. As a matter

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Speaker 2: of fact, I believe you told me this.

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Speaker 1: He asked a friend to hide a gun, and the

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Speaker 1: friend hid the gun in a false wall, and the

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Speaker 1: gun was found, and the friend, of course blabbed he

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Speaker 1: told me to hide it. So we know he has

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Speaker 1: a track record of hiding evidence. Now that's one thing,

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Speaker 1: But that doesn't prove to me he tried to hide

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Speaker 1: this saw. I need to know how did he try

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Speaker 1: to hide the saw? Where are we getting that?

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Speaker 8: So that comes directly from the charges against him, But

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Speaker 8: we don't have the exact details on where police found

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Speaker 8: the saw, other than it being in his toolbox. So

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Speaker 8: your points are completely accurate. And we also don't know

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Speaker 8: precisely what DNA they found.

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Speaker 5: On the saw.

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Speaker 2: Brian is Gibbons joining me.

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Speaker 1: Brian is the director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security,

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Speaker 1: who leads teams of investigators all around the country trying

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Speaker 1: to find missing people. Brian, just go with me for

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Speaker 1: a moment. The saw in the toolbox. That's not damning,

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Speaker 1: that's not incriminating. That means nothing to me. I need

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Speaker 1: to know what part of DNA, what type of DNA

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Speaker 1: is it? For instance, if it's hair and scalp, it's

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Speaker 1: over for him. If it's just a little blood, well

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Speaker 1: that could have an innocent explanation. Not that I believe it,

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Speaker 1: but it could. So what about this, Brian? If the

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Speaker 1: toolbox itself, we know the saw is in the toolbox,

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Speaker 1: But if the toolbox itself, let's just say was buried

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Speaker 1: in the backyard, Okay, that indicates nefarious intent. If it

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Speaker 1: was flung in a river, we have to know more

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Speaker 1: facts before we can just blurt out it was hidden.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, as Attorney Ben Powers just said, we're looking at

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Speaker 10: a whole tapis story of things laid out in this

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Speaker 10: charging document. So where it was concealed, how it was

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Speaker 10: concealed is certainly going to come out later. But there

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Speaker 10: was a reason that investigators put that in the documents. Okay,

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Speaker 10: we see him concealing the cell phone, we see him

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Speaker 10: concealing the guns. Now we read about him concealing the saw.

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Speaker 10: They're laying out a pattern of behavior from Brad Simpson.

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Speaker 8: Here.

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Speaker 1: You know, Ryan, I gave up cursing, or I said

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Speaker 1: I was giving up cursing when I had the twins.

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Speaker 1: But on this special special occasion, let me just say,

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Speaker 1: they damn well better show me later. Because Karen Starke

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Speaker 1: joining me, a renounced psychologist, TV radio trauma expert. You

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Speaker 1: can find her at karenstart dot com. Karen, you know

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Speaker 1: I lived through the j Simpson trial, Mayhey Rottenhill.

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Speaker 2: One little beauty thing, the glove, one little beauty thing.

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Speaker 1: And I guarantee you, Karen Stark, if I could have

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Speaker 1: gotten in that courtroom and gone up to Simpson, I

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Speaker 1: would have gotten that glove on his hand, no question,

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Speaker 1: but no doubt, one thing. That one thing tainted the

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Speaker 1: whole case. It messed up the whole case. Like here,

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Speaker 1: if the state says he hit it, and then you

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Speaker 1: can't prove he hit it.

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Speaker 2: A technical legal term, they're screwed.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 9: I would think, Nancy, that they would not say that

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Speaker 9: he was tampering with the evidence or hiding it unless

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Speaker 9: there was actually a reason.

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Speaker 2: Stop. Brother Kimble's.

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Speaker 1: Crowns is demonstrating what a reciprocating handheld saw is. Does

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Speaker 1: that come with another blade, a detachable blade?

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Speaker 7: Yes, it comes with multiple different blades depending on what

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Speaker 7: you're trying to saw up. It can come with ones

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Speaker 7: that'll work on a metal. It also comes with ones

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Speaker 7: that'll trim trees, things of that nature.

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Speaker 1: So for those of you just join medical examiner, doctor

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Speaker 1: Kendall Crown's is demonstrating a reciprocating saw. Go ahead, okay,

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Speaker 1: thank you, doctor Crowns. You know, to Zachary Taylor Wright,

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Speaker 1: the big bombshell tonight is that Suzanne's DNA is found

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Speaker 1: on that reciprocating saw. But there is other evidence that's

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Speaker 1: extremely disturbing.

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Speaker 2: The problem with a reciprocating.

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Speaker 1: Saw is that in the leading up to tonight, we

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Speaker 1: were looking for a body because nobody wouldn't you agree,

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Speaker 1: Jeff Horney, There's no way Suzanne would have stayed away

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Speaker 1: from her children this long.

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Speaker 2: No, absolutely not, so that means we're looking for a body.

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Speaker 1: But now that the reciprocating saw has entered the scene

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Speaker 1: with her DNA on it, that means he has very

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Speaker 1: likely been dismembered. That is going to make the discovery

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Speaker 1: of her remains much more difficult.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean to a prosecutor?

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Speaker 1: That means this may very well be a no body case,

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Speaker 1: as in, there will never be a body discovered. But

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Speaker 1: what else do we know? Zachary Taylor, right and joining

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Speaker 1: us from my San Antonio. We were just describing Brad

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Speaker 1: Simpson going out for a what a burger?

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Speaker 2: He certainly did not lose.

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Speaker 1: His appetite in light of his wife missing. Now I

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Speaker 1: know I'm projecting Zachary Taylor, right, But when.

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Speaker 2: I learned my fiance had been murdered, I lost down

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Speaker 2: to eighty nine pounds.

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Speaker 1: The thought of food literally made me sick, nauseous, and

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Speaker 1: I went so long. I remember the first thing I ingested,

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Speaker 1: and it was orange juice and something my mom had

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Speaker 1: in the fridge.

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Speaker 2: So I know that's just my experience.

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Speaker 1: But when I hear about Brad Simpson in the middle

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Speaker 1: of his wife missing, big out at what a Burger.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a shrink or a dietitian, but that just

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Speaker 1: doesn't sit right with me.

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Speaker 8: I mean, we don't know exactly what he purchased at

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Speaker 8: Waterburger so far, but we do know that he did,

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Speaker 8: in fact stop at Waterburger with some we'll say, suspicious

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Speaker 8: items in his trunk that he later unloaded after making

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Speaker 8: two separate stops. And we also know, according to the

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Speaker 8: restaurant off A David, he's accused of burning the couple

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Speaker 8: of electronics as well out of bendera home.

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Speaker 1: First of all, he puts his phone in quote lockdown mode.

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Speaker 1: Ryan Gibbons joining us USPA Nationwide Security. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what lockdown mode means. I guess that means like airplane mode.

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Speaker 10: Right, this is gonna go, This is gonna go one

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Speaker 10: step beyond that, Nancy. So once that phone enters lockdown mode,

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Speaker 10: you have no data being transmitted from that phone to

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Speaker 10: the cloud, to any towers, So trep tracking Brad Simpson's

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Speaker 10: movements with the phone would become nearly impossible at that point.

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Speaker 1: Ben Powers joining me high profile lawyer with legal powers.

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Speaker 1: Ben kind of reminds me of Brian Coberger. Just so happens.

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Speaker 1: He turns his phone off exactly the time the four

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Speaker 1: University Idaho students are murdered in their beds. What a

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Speaker 1: coink you think, Ben?

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Speaker 5: I do agree that taring off his phone is certainly

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Speaker 5: not a practice of the defense. You know. It definitely

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Speaker 5: is consistent with trying to have his activities where he's going,

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Speaker 5: what he's doing. There are other layers of allegations in

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Speaker 5: the war and against him the show. He's pretty active

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Speaker 5: after the altercation that he had of Suzanne and the

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Speaker 5: activity involved on the home depot to get different items

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Speaker 5: like trash bags, tarks, concrete buckets, things like that.

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Speaker 1: There is the discovery we talked about Powers Powers the

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Speaker 1: phone being put in lockdown mode. Is that the same

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Speaker 1: thing as airplane mode? Or is it something more?

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Speaker 2: What is it?

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Speaker 5: It's something more. It's something that's intended to avoid hitting

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Speaker 5: those things on the towers so that he could conceal

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Speaker 5: his movements. Okay, the thing I guess he wasn't baking

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Speaker 5: on was his car head GPS line as well. So

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Speaker 5: kind of idiot defeated the purpose of what he hoped

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Speaker 5: to achieve.

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Speaker 1: You know, Ben Powers, would you agree that at this

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Speaker 1: juncture in our technological world, a jury is going to

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Speaker 1: view putting your phone in airplane mode or lockdown.

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Speaker 2: As being as bad as placing you at the scene.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if he had had any sense at all,

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Speaker 1: he would have left his phone on at his home,

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Speaker 1: but instead he put it in lockdown. So I think

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Speaker 1: it has a very nefarious or sinister connotation to juries

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Speaker 1: because jury's didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

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Speaker 2: They don't have their phone in lockdown. They may not

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Speaker 2: even know how to.

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Speaker 1: Find lockdown on their phone, so that is going to

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Speaker 1: signal to them that something sinister was happening.

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Speaker 5: And I agree that the problem the state still has

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Speaker 5: got to have is that's all person would come in

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Speaker 5: after the fact, after the allegation that he killed Suzanne.

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Speaker 5: They don't have anything before. They don't have any premeditation,

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Speaker 5: any planning before. This is all posts and so they're

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Speaker 5: still going to have a problem with establishing, you know,

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Speaker 5: with this avoluntary manslaughter.

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Speaker 1: Ben Powers, You're right, they've got a problem.

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Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Horney is joining us, a longtime friend of Susanne

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Speaker 1: and Brad Simpson's. You know, Jeff, how exactly do you

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Speaker 1: know them. Who did you know first?

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Speaker 3: I knew Suzanne first, and then I I met Brad

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Speaker 3: after that, before they even know each other.

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Speaker 2: So how would you describe him?

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Speaker 3: You know, he was a different dude. He was a

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Speaker 3: little weird, a little different, but you know he was

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Speaker 3: he was always uh you know, smiling and and I'll

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Speaker 3: be honest with you. Being a year younger than me,

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Speaker 3: I didn't see him a lot. The only time I

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Speaker 3: saw him was back at the frat house and everybody

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Speaker 3: was drinking beer and and you know, doing doing what

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Speaker 3: we do there. So you know, I've spent a summer

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Speaker 3: with Brad before his freshman year, uh, you know, rushing

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Speaker 3: our fraternity and and getting to know him and trying

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Speaker 3: to get him to.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, I don't need to hear about rush season.

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Speaker 1: What I want to hear about Jeff Horny is when

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Speaker 1: you said he was odd.

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Speaker 2: That's what I want to hear about. You know the

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Speaker 2: old quote everyone.

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Speaker 1: Is odd but me and the and I think the

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Speaker 1: a bit queer at times.

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Speaker 2: What that means, h and.

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Speaker 1: Everyday parlance is everybody thinks everybody else is weird but themselves. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So when you say he was odd, you just can't

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Speaker 1: put that out there and leave it hanging.

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Speaker 2: What did he do that was odd?

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Speaker 3: Well, he never went anywhere with Suzanne. She was always

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Speaker 3: by herself, football games, by yourself, to watch her daughter's

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Speaker 3: cheer parties by yourself. Never Brad was was was very

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Speaker 3: rarely there. So that was that was that was odd

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Speaker 3: to me. You know, I don't know what else you

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Speaker 3: want me to say.

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Speaker 2: I was around.

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Speaker 3: I was around them because I Suzanne was a friend

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Speaker 3: of mine. You know, she's the one that would call

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Speaker 3: me and invite me to their parties. I wasn't you know,

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Speaker 3: Brad would not call me and and invite me. Uh

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Speaker 3: he he is a you know, again, the the community

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Speaker 3: is is a a party driven community. You know, there

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Speaker 3: was a lot of partying and alcohol. And there's this

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Speaker 3: group of mainly Alamo Heights men that raised money for

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Speaker 3: underprivileged folks and they they the cavaliers is what they're called.

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Speaker 3: And he was a cavalier. So you know, he had

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Speaker 3: some good qualities. I think, uh you know, I think

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Speaker 3: he might have been an okay father and and took

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Speaker 3: his kids hunting and fishing. I just know he was

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Speaker 3: not a very good husband.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that allegedly murdering the mother of your children.

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Speaker 2: Qualifies as being a good thought. Hey, Zachary Taylor, right,

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Speaker 2: got a question for you.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to go along with the police and these

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Speaker 1: recent court filings as to everything that they have uncovered

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Speaker 1: with his phone in lockdown mode, police had to go

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Speaker 1: to extreme methods gathering surveillance video from all over homes, businesses, red.

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Speaker 2: Lights, you name it.

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Speaker 1: Let me talk to you about that, because what they

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Speaker 1: have put together without the use of his phone is

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Speaker 1: survellance video showing his truck at a grocery store twelve

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Speaker 1: thirty three am. Uh oh, he must have had a

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Speaker 1: snack attack. Twelve thirty three am, he said, the grocery store.

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Speaker 1: Nothing in the bed of his truck but an ice chest.

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Speaker 1: Then when he takes his daughter to school the next morning,

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Speaker 1: where was Susanne she normally takes him to school. There

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Speaker 1: are two full white trash bags added in the truck bed.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Then when he's spotted at that Bernie Whatburger an

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Speaker 2: hour later. Now he's got.

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Speaker 1: A heavy duty trash can with the firewood rat weighing

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Speaker 1: down an object now covered with the blue tarp. Wow,

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Speaker 1: a lot happened after he dropped his daughter off huh absolutely.

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Speaker 8: He also made a stop at a home depot where

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Speaker 8: he bought concrete, a large bucket, and some I believe

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Speaker 8: cleaning spray with bleach before he asks for directions to

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Speaker 8: the nearest dump site.

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Speaker 11: Simpson then stops at the Bernie home depot. Simpson buys

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Speaker 11: concrete mix, a bucket, trash bags, and chlorox spray. On

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Speaker 11: his way out, Simpson asks for directions to the nearest dump.

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Speaker 11: Surveillance footage captures Simpson leaving the dump then stopping for gas.

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Speaker 11: The two white trash bags are no longer in the bed.

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Speaker 11: Simpson then drives to Medina, just west of the family

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Speaker 11: home in Bandera. When Simpson is spotted again back in Bernie,

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Speaker 11: the tarp and whatever was underneath it are gone.

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Speaker 4: Simpson is on his way back from Bernie when he

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Speaker 4: receives the call, but Suzanne isn't there for their daughter.

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Speaker 4: Simpson picks her up around three point thirty, then heads

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Speaker 4: to his usual car wash with her. Video shows Simpson

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Speaker 4: washing the interior around the driver's seat and rear left

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Speaker 4: passenger seat, cleaning up what he claims were concrete stains.

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Speaker 1: In his car, Cleaning up the vehicle at the car wash.

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Speaker 2: You know, straight out of the playbook. A Photus Dulos.

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Speaker 1: You know, Dulos charged in the murder of his wife,

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Speaker 1: a Connecticut mother of five, and police in Connecticut did

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Speaker 1: an incredible job of pacing together video from all sorts

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Speaker 1: of origins.

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Speaker 2: You know what, listen, investigators believe photos.

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00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 4: Dulos parks his employees read Tacoma a few blocks from

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Speaker 4: Jennifer Dulo's home, then rides a bike the rest of

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Speaker 4: the way, lying in wait for her to return. After

442
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 4: attacking her in the garage, cops believe Dulo's loads Jennifer,

443
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 4: dead or unconscious in the back of her own suv,

444
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 4: then transfers her body into the Tacoma. Less than a

445
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 4: week later, without his employees knowledge, Dulas takes the truck again.

446
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 4: Doulos is caught on video paying for a car wash

447
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 4: in cash. His girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, later tells authorities he

448
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 4: was trying to clean a coffee spill. Despite Doulo's efforts,

449
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 4: investigators still managed to recover Jennifer Dulos's DNA from the

450
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 4: passenger seat.

451
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: To Ben Power's high profile defense attorney, why is it

452
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: when there is a murder or somebody goes missing Suddenly husbands.

453
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 2: And or suspects turn into Nate Nicks. You remember.

454
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: Jody Arias did all the laundry after she murdered Travis Alexander. Whoopsie,

455
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: She left her digital camera in the laundry, and you

456
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: see her foot by the dead body in the digitcam

457
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: out to that hurt. Then Scott Peterson went on a

458
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: laundry jag Clton doing all the laundry in the home

459
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: and cleaning up.

460
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 2: It goes on and on and on. Ben Powers, thank.

461
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 5: You for the obvious very active and very busy and

462
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:02,959
Speaker 5: whatever it is.

463
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: Powers, weren't you the veteran defense attorney, because.

464
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 2: I'm hearing an echo. You're just saying what I just said.

465
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,479
Speaker 1: What's your defense in this case of Simpson cleaning out

466
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: his vehicle around the time his wife goes missing.

467
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 5: I think at most you can just say it's odd

468
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 5: because they still don't have a body. They don't have

469
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 5: anything to say how he took her life, when he

470
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 5: took her life, where he took her life, where he

471
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 5: just remembered her, where she is if he did dismember her.

472
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 5: At the moment, all they have is DNA on the

473
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,959
Speaker 5: boatsaw that no one can really explain. There's a lot

474
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 5: of speculation that can go.

475
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, point will taken, Ben Powers, point will taken.

476
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 2: Zacharychill are right? Tell me about his movements that day.

477
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the tarp, the bleach that

478
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: stops at the grocery at twelve thirty in the morning,

479
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: then going to a dump site, then.

480
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 2: Driving all around.

481
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: The area making stops, and all those bags of trash

482
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: then disappear every time he makes a stop. In a

483
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: surveillance video, something's been moved out of the bed of

484
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: his trunk. So why is it that day suddenly it's

485
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: in and out, in and out with the truck bed

486
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: just tons of trash bags a tart for Pete's sake.

487
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 8: I can't tell you why he did it. All I

488
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 8: can do is tell you what he's accused of doing,

489
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 8: and that is, like you mentioned, starting the morning with

490
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 8: some suspicious activity, including driving out to Bernie after dropping

491
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,959
Speaker 8: off his daughter with only a nice chest in his trunk,

492
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 8: and the art starting in the bed of his truck

493
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 8: before he's then seen in Bernie with you know, large

494
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 8: trash fins and then stops at home depot, where he's

495
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 8: then seen that water burger with the large object covered

496
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 8: by a tarp, and then he asks for directions to

497
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 8: the nearest dump there and Bernie, and he's shortly seen

498
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 8: on surveillance camera footage after visiting the dep with the

499
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 8: two tryack's gone, but he still has the large item

500
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 8: covered with the tart. He then proceeds to drive to Bandera,

501
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 8: which officers reportedly know from license plate readers and other

502
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 8: surveillance footage that they see of his truck driving out there.

503
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 8: He then stops in Bandera for only less than fifteen

504
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 8: minutes before he's done seen driving back towards Bernie with

505
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 8: the tart and the large item under the tar being gone.

506
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 8: He's unseen on surveillance footage picking up his daughter and

507
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 8: all of those suspicious items from the back of his

508
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 8: truck are gone.

509
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

510
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: Jeff Horny, longtime friend of both Susanne and Brad Simpson.

511
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: I got to figure out how smart and or dumb

512
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: is your friend, Brad Simpson, because.

513
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: It's like the same old playbook.

514
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: Come on, this is the same exact thing Fotus Dulos did.

515
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: Okay, there's a copious amount.

516
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: Of blood found in the garage outside of Jennifer's car

517
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: after she came back from drop off that morning at school.

518
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: She's never been found, but he Traconas and his girlfriend,

519
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: that's certainly one way to put it. Michelle Traconas are

520
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: caught on video driving all around town going to I

521
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: believe it was five different trash receptacles caught on video

522
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: throwing away sponges, rags, towels all soaked in blood. The wife,

523
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: Jennifer Dulos shirt and bras soaked in blood.

524
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: So how smart is.

525
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: Simpson because he's just doing the same old playbook for

526
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: Pete's sake.

527
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 3: I don't think he's very smart. I'm you know, after

528
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 3: I heard that they found the found her DNA on

529
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 3: the reciprocating saw.

530
00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 2: He's crazy.

531
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know what he could have to

532
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 3: get all that done in the few hours that he

533
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 3: got done. I'd like to know what he was on

534
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 3: to do that, you know?

535
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 5: Uh?

536
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: Yeah?

537
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: Has Brian Fitzgibbons, Brian, do you ever wish that suspect,

538
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: of course he's presumed innocent, would do something different? I mean,

539
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: don't you know that if the authorities have already gotten

540
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: him on video at the water Burger and the grocery

541
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: store and the here and the there. They're going to

542
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: have video of him disposing of stuff, although he may

543
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: have disposed of it in a remote area where we're

544
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: never going to find it.

545
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, Nancy, at this point that I certainly wish all

546
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 10: the time that you know, a defendant would come forward

547
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 10: with the truth. Right, But at this point we're probably

548
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 10: dealing with multiple disposal sites, potentially bodies of water, potentially

549
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 10: different dump sites, and uh, you know this, this is

550
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 10: going to be very complicated. But so far as a wish,

551
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 10: of course, I feel that all the time, I wish

552
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 10: you'd come forward and give us the truth.

553
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: A major update in the search for Suzanne Simpson, the

554
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: missing Texas mom luxury realtor Listen It's.

555
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 6: Part Police Department, along with the Texas Rangers, have charged

556
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 6: Brad Chandler Simpson with murder in the death of his wife,

557
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 6: Suzanne Clark Simpson.

558
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 5: The Rangers have not.

559
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 12: Stopped investigating this case, as it has been turned over

560
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 12: to the District Attorney's apartment. The District Attorney starts their

561
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 12: process in the prosecution phase. Even though we are not

562
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 12: stopping our search for Suzanne Clark Simpson.

563
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: That from our friends at k e NS five and

564
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: you were hearing the almost part chief of police for

565
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: Dale Valet House and Sergeant Dion Cockrell from the Texas

566
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: Department of Public Safety. So now there is a formal

567
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: charge the district attorney now starting the prosecution phase. Will

568
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: more be made clear? Maybe not. We don't have a

569
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: right to know all of the details surrounding this case.

570
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: Straight out to doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical examiner in

571
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: Terran County, that's Fort Worth, Texas, doctor Kendall Crowns.

572
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: I'm thinking back on photos.

573
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: Dulos and how he and his lover, Michelle Chaconis were

574
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: hiding Jennifer, the mother of his five children. I mean

575
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: hiding throwing away into dumpsters, into trash receptacles all over town.

576
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: What man throws the same bag of trash in five

577
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: different trash cans?

578
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 2: Okay, food for thought.

579
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: But if we find, if we discover that Susanne has

580
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: been dismembered, that could mean anything from a leg to

581
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: a digit. So how do you go about if any

582
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: part of her is found connecting that back to Susanne Simpson.

583
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 7: So well, what you would have to do is whatever

584
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 7: you receive, you get tissue, bone, marrow, whatever you can

585
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 7: pull off of it, and then submit that for DNA.

586
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 7: If it happened to be a finger, you could actually

587
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 7: get fingerprints from it if it's still intact enough, and

588
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 7: you could do it that way. But in this type

589
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 7: of case, with the parts being found over time, that

590
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 7: each part that is found is going to have to

591
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 7: have DNA testing done on it to make sure it's

592
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 7: from her. But once you do find a part, especially

593
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 7: if it's like a large portion, like a thigh or

594
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 7: something like that, you know she's been murdered. You know

595
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 7: she's been cut up.

596
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: Joining me is renowned psychologist Karen Start joining us from Manhattan. Karen,

597
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: the loss of your mother is overwhelming, I've been told,

598
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: But then the additional shock that she'sn't been murdered, then

599
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: the additional shock that she has been dismembered. Now, if

600
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: the children don't accept that, they are left with the

601
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: specter of my mom's not dead, she just abandoned me.

602
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: So what are your thoughts?

603
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 9: Well, no matter which way this turns out, Nancy, these

604
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 9: children don't have a mother anymore. So there is so

605
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 9: much they've been exposed to. They're going to need a

606
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 9: tremendous amount.

607
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: Of help in my hand.

608
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: The newly released charging documents straight out to my Saint

609
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: Antonio Zachary tail all right, Zachary, tell me in a

610
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 1: nutshell about these allegations, and they are only that allegations.

611
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: He has not been proven guilty. What do you know?

612
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 8: So I know he's been charged with the murder of

613
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 8: Suzanne Simpson, and I also know he's been charged with

614
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 8: two bounts of tempering with evidence. One is linked to

615
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 8: the gun that he had his friend had and the

616
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 8: reciprocating saw that they alleged that he attempted to conceal

617
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 8: from investigators. Then he was also charged with tempering with

618
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 8: evidence with the intent to conceal his wife's body, although

619
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 8: very little information has been present on that charge. And

620
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 8: then those are the charges he's facing, but they're all

621
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 8: being questioned by his defense attorney.

622
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 2: In the last hours.

623
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: Brad Simpson in court before Judge Joel Petz with the

624
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: attorneys identified themselves.

625
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 8: He's a stand up appreciation. See you can get more

626
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 8: from mister Simpsons.

627
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: Okay, and so are you, Brad Chandler Simpson.

628
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: That from our friends aka b Zachary Taylor. What happened

629
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: in court.

630
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 8: There is quite a bit that's set to happen in

631
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 8: the coming months. He Brad Simpson is said to be

632
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 8: before the judge again on December nineteenth. Now that's a

633
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 8: motion to amend conditions. But very little has been filed

634
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 8: with the court to tell us or offer any kind

635
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 8: of insight into what his defense attorney might be looking

636
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 8: to do, although in the past he has sought to

637
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 8: reduce the bond amount and change the bond conditions to

638
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 8: allow him to see his children. And then he'll be

639
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 8: back before the judge on February twelve.

640
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 2: Well, you're right again. You don't know a horse. Look

641
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 2: at his track record.

642
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: Now Brad Simpson is demanding that the charges be thrown out.

643
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 2: Listen, there's emotion to quash the inditement, which I think

644
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 2: we will dedigate as a leader date.

645
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: That's for our friends at kabb to ben powers in

646
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: a nutshell, Ben a nutshell. The state doesn't give a

647
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 1: killer a gold star or an A plus plus because

648
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: they get rid of the body.

649
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: That's not happening.

650
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: The state doesn't have to lay out in the indictment

651
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: how the victim was killed.

652
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 2: If they can prove it, sure, put it in.

653
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: There, for instance, by manual strangulation, by shooting with the weapon,

654
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: by stabbing, But it doesn't matter.

655
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 2: The state doesn't have to prove how she was killed.

656
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: They just have to convince a jury that she has

657
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: been killed and that he did it in this jurisdiction.

658
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 5: Well, I disagree with that. They have to lay out

659
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 5: what their theory of the killing is. You know, there's

660
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 5: a big difference between a voluntary manslaughter, which is a

661
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 5: accidental killing, and a first degree murder, which is premeditated killing.

662
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 5: It sounds like his defense attorneys are saying, you're saying

663
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 5: he killed her, but you're not telling us how when

664
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 5: where any of the important details that go to your

665
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 5: theory of premeditation, And so that's what they're attacking with

666
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 5: their most recent silence is the lack of proof that

667
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 5: goes towards premeditation, like the state is trying to make

668
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 5: it out to be.

669
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: So, Ben Powers, let me understand in your mind, the

670
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: state has to lay out the exact mode of murder.

671
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: So you've never encountered a case where there was no

672
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: body to be found and the mode of murder was unknown.

673
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: Are you telling me, You've never seen a no body

674
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: case indictment.

675
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 5: What I'm saying is this most recent motion sounds like

676
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 5: what I would call a deal. In particular, it's basically

677
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 5: the defense throwing down the gauntlet and saying, okay, state,

678
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 5: you say my client premeditated killed this person.

679
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: I know what they filed, Ben, I know what the

680
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: defense filed. We just had reporters say that. But then

681
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: you said the dight must show mode i've murder.

682
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 5: When I say mode, I mean in this case, they're

683
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 5: saying it's premeditated, and then must include a factual allegation

684
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 5: that supports premeditation being charged.

685
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: For all of you would be wife killers out there,

686
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: an indictment does not have to show how you killed

687
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: your partner, Okay, you getting rid of the body is

688
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: not going to help you. And in Diamond only has

689
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: to allege that you committed premeditated murder the jurisdiction in

690
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: the name of the victim.

691
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 2: That's it.

692
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: The rest can be proven at trial. The state is

693
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: still building its case.

694
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything.

695
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: About the disappearance of Texas's mom, Suzanne Simpson, or the

696
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: movements of her husband, Brad Simpson, who is presumed innocent.

697
00:38:55,200 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: Please dial two one zero two zero nine to seven

698
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: zero one two one zero two zero nine two seven

699
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 1: zero one. Let's remember now an American hero David Ennsbrenner Atchison,

700
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: p D. Kansas, shot and killed in the line of duty.

701
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: Served twenty four years in law enforcement. Survived by wife

702
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: now widow, Carrie, and children without a father, Avery, Abby

703
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: and Celia. American hero Sergeant David Ennsbrenner. Nancy Gray signing

704
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 1: off goodbye friend.