WEBVTT - Katie Lowes & Guillermo Díaz 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.920 How was that filming together? It was that fun as hell. 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.840 It was so much fun. I say that about nobody else. 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.399 By the way, the times on the show that I 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:16.840 got to torture people or have crazy like on camera 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:21.279 sex with Quinn were the most fun ever. You know 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.959 what it means real. Debbie Allen directed the first episode 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.360 where we had to I smack your face, then you 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:30.120 grab my cheeks so that I can't speak. You're like 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:32.560 hurting my face and oh I smacked him so hard 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:35.199 his ears was ringing. It was all my earing for 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:37.760 like half an hour. I've talked about this on other shows, 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:39.960 but I was like, Katie, smack me for real, like 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:42.279 do it for real, for real? And then I was like, 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:52.080 what did you say, Debbie? Like I couldn't hear. Hi. 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:55.960 My name is Katie Lows and I really liked this podcast. 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:01.440 Hi guys, my name is Giermo Diaz and I just 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:16.000 watched a rat run across my backyard twice. Well, hello everyone, 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:19.600 and welcome back here to Off the Beat. I am 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:23.200 your host, Brian Baumgartner, and today is a very special 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:29.520 day because today we have not one, but two exciting guests. 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:35.320 That's right, it's a threesome Katie Lowe's and Guillermo Diaz. Now. 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.120 I met Katie and Guermo for the first time today, 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:44.680 but they met a decade ago on the set of Scandal, 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.240 one of the most popular shows well, certainly in the 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:52.520 last decade, and for good reason. It has politics, it 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.960 has drama, but most of all, it has Katie and Guermo. 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:02.320 Now they're actually starting their own Scandal podcast called Unpacking 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:07.040 the Toolbox. I've heard the trailer and it is fantastic. 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:13.440 Lots of scandal, but that's expected. They're here today to 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:18.160 talk about their early days as actors struggling in New York, 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.720 their time on Scandal, what it means to be a 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:25.160 part of the Shondaland universe, and both of their most 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:30.040 recent shows, Law and Order Organized Crime for Guillermo and 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.000 the most talked about show of the last year, Inventing 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:38.680 Anna for Katie. They're delightful together. I didn't even need 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:42.520 to be here, but guess what I was. So here 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:55.040 they are Katie Lowe's and Guillermo Diaz. Bubbalue, I love it, 0:02:55.560 --> 0:03:15.960 Bubble Bubble and squee Cook get every more from the nut. Hi, guys, 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:21.120 how are you good? How are you. I'm good. I mean, 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.200 you know I'm lurking in the background, so I hear. 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:26.079 I mean, we should keep the conversation going. Arm You're 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:30.440 going to Vegas this weekend. That's fantastic. I am No, 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.360 You're not like a Vegas dude to me, but like maybe, 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.000 And I'm always learning new things from this friendship. Yeah. 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.080 I love Vegas. I really love it. I mean I 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:40.960 can't go for more than like two days, you know 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:43.280 what I mean. But I'm excited. We're gonna see the 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:47.720 Michael Jackson show out there. Oh it's so good. I 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:51.000 saw it. I did. Oh nice. Yeah, I'm super excited 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.640 about that. Saw it. And you know what's so funny? 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.720 Did you guys watch the Chris Rock special? Yes? I 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:01.040 haven't seen it, but I've heard about it. Yes. It 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:05.400 got me thinking because he was saying how like people 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:10.600 are selectively outraged out or outrage and He's like, why 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.320 are we allowed to watch Michael listen to Michael Jackson 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:15.200 but we're not allowed to listen to R Kelly? Do 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.120 you know what I mean? Like, anyway, whatever you feel 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:19.920 about that, I'm not trying to be provocative right now, 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:21.760 but I'm like, I'm trying to ask You're trying to 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.920 be provocative, but ask that question in myself because I've 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.680 seen the Michael Jackson Show and I love Michael Jackson music, 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.240 and then I and I know what he's done, and 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.680 then I would never see a musical about R Kelly. No. 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.800 So I just, yeah, I don't know what's happening in 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:42.680 my brain. Yeah, it's crazy that he presented that. And 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.400 then it makes you, it really makes you think, yeah, yeah, 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:47.680 and like everybody's different what they feel, because I have 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:49.560 friends who are like, we'll walk off a dancelor of 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:54.960 Michael Jackson comes on really one hundred percent, like they 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.880 are like, absolutely not. I don't endorse support any of 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.280 this music. This person was incredibly sick and and just 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.320 broke laws and hurt people and children, and so I'm 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:09.560 out and I'm like, fuck, I'm a bad person. I'm 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.440 just like doing the moonwalk like my best impression in 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.120 the I mean, Gammo, this sounds like kind of an 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.839 indictment of you. How are you feeling right now about 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.440 to go to Vegas and watch the show. Oh my god, 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.720 that's right? What the fuck? Man? Well, I've seen it 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:25.840 and was just saying I was endorsing it because I 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:31.600 loved it amazing. Um, you guys, I mean I have 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:36.240 to start with what is secretly wrong with Bellamy Young. 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.479 I just had the opportunity to work with her. She 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:44.480 seems way too kind a person. There must be something 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:49.080 work with her on. We're working on a new show, 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.520 The Other Black Girl for Hulu. Yes, I find her 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:58.040 way too delightful, So there must be something wrong with her, 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.760 there is it? There is your hate a vegan unless 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.320 you hate vegans or you hate animal lovers. Those would 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.320 be the only things to check. She loves animals and 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:13.560 she doesn't eat them. Okay. Other than that, she's pretty 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:18.080 gloriously perfect. Yeah, but you're you're feeling, you're thinking is 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:20.599 correct because when I first met her, I thought the 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.039 same too. I was like, this is a way too 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:25.720 like is this real? And then you come to find 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.800 out years later that she's that exact same person every 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:31.400 single day with you, and she's just she has the 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:35.120 biggest heart and the most loving kind person. I know 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:38.720 she really is, but she is. She's pretty fantastic. She's 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:42.680 pretty fantastic. She's exceptional. Also, it's like disarming, like I 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.320 don't know where you're from. Originally Brian, but I don't know, 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:50.160 like a lot of like Southern bells, like say she's 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:53.880 belly but okay, so she's like I was like, the 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.560 what the hell is this? Like I'm from New York. 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:00.240 I've never met women that are like that, Like like 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.080 she's very Oh god, Josh Milenet used to drive him 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.640 so crazy on Scandal because she's a big hugger and 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.320 kiss her and very warm. But she also she's just 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:13.240 the person on our WhatsApp like Scandal change. She knows 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:18.480 everybody's birthday, everybody's anniversary, and it is like so conscious 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:22.960 about that. It's like pretty remarkable. Is that a Southern 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.880 thing you're from there, Brian? Is that a Southern woman thing? Um? 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:31.400 I mean my mom does that, so I guess yes, yeah. 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:35.200 I mean it's blue Mountain cards generally, blue Mountain messages. 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.840 Generally it's those from my aunt Maureen. What are those? 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.040 That's a blue Mountain message? I don't know what that is. 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:45.480 It's a it's basically I mean, it's still a kind gesture, 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:47.760 which I guess. I guess it's more effort than just 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.760 a text, if that's what Bellamy does. But it is 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.880 a virtual card that you open usually has some sort 0:07:54.920 --> 0:08:01.040 of dancing flower flower yes, and it says like wishing 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.520 you a great day. It's like an e card. But 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.280 the company is called Blue Mountain, and I that is 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.440 classic in my family as well. Yes, all right, I 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:14.120 want to go back to your childhood. I want to 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:18.240 go back to your time growing up, both of you, 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:21.920 each of you. When did you start becoming interested in 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:27.960 the arts? Are acting? Gee, Guillermo? For me, it happened 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:29.920 when I was in high school. I was a sophomore 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.360 in high school and I did a talent show where 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.080 we did a medley of songs by the Beastie Boys 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.040 and I played Mike d And it was the first 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.200 time I was on stage, and I just fell in 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.120 love with performing, and I thought, this is what I 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:45.760 want to do. And then from that point on, I 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:50.400 just really really focused on pursuing it. I bought Backstage. 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.280 There used to be a newspaper called Backstage, and you know, 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.959 you circle the auditions and open calls and all that stuff. 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.600 I did a ton of extra work and background work 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.600 and do it in films, and I just I really 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:06.520 just wanted to act, and I pounded the pavement and 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:09.640 I just I you know, and I just kept going. 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:12.080 So that's that's how it started for me. But let 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.880 me ask you this, so you can You're on a 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.719 talent show stage as the Beastie Boys, Like, what was 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.840 the impetus behind wanting to do that? Or? Right? You 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.319 just kind of conned by your friends into doing this somewhat. 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:27.400 I didn't even I didn't even want to be in 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:29.600 the Talent show. But one of the guys dropped out 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:31.800 that was playing Mike d and my friends were like, Garamo, 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.079 you please just do this for us, do as this 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.760 solid And I was like, all right, And that's sort 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:38.960 of how it happened. So I wasn't even looking for it. 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:41.440 I wasn't even thinking about, you know, wanting to do 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:43.960 the Talent show. It just sort of fell in my lap. 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.080 And then it was it was a you know, really 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.280 exciting surprise that I that I loved it so much? 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.640 Did you kill? It? Was the audience, like in the pod, 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:56.199 I have it, I have it, it's recorded, like I 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:59.080 have it, I have it on tape. Yeah it's on 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.640 a VHS. Yeah, well but you haven't changed it over yet. Yeah, 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.200 you got to change it over. You haven't to an 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.600 electronic file. Let me tell you something, Gearmo, Oh my god, 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:13.280 you can't. This is not going to survive. If you've 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.520 moved from it might be messed up to New York compartment. 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.720 This is gonna get you know, damaged in some way. 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.120 I know, I know, I really, I'm going to transfer 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.000 it over. There's there's a photo on my Instagram of 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.840 us three dressed like the Beastie Boys from that night. 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:31.000 If you scroll through on my Instagram, there's a photo 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:36.960 your life and then and then years later. Fun fact, 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.240 years later, I did a movie called Half Baked and 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:44.640 Tamer Davis directed it, and she I couldn't believe that 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.319 she was married to Mike d And I got to 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:52.120 tell this story to Mike d into, Tama Davis and too, 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:56.640 Dave Chappelle, and that's amazing. Yeah, you have said in 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:00.800 the past that hiding the fact that you were gay 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:05.240 growing up gave you a crash course in acting. Can 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.000 you can you talk to me a little bit about 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:09.400 that or why you feel that way it did? Man? 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.760 You know, when you're when you're growing up in in 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.320 in New York City and Washington Heights in the eighties, 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.480 you know, we I did a lot of lying a 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.199 lot of lying, a lot of hiding, a lot of 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:27.840 you know, just suppressing all all things gay that I 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.439 knew I was, and and it really does it makes 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.240 you It made me a really good actor because I, 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.200 you know, I just sort of, you know, rolled along 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.840 throughout my world acting like I wasn't gay, and it 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.480 just sort of helped my acting. And it's sort of 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:45.280 a messed up thing to think about, you know what 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.319 I mean, because I was I was hurting inside in 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.000 the fact that I was hiding and lying to my parents, 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.240 to friends like that was all really sad to me, 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.760 but it was it was a performance I had to 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.440 keep keep doing and keep up if I wanted to 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.079 sort of you know, survive for lack of a better word, 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.280 and you know where I grew up, you know. I 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:06.600 also think it sort of relates so much to like 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.560 Gammo's had the most incredible run of playing so many 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.800 different types of parts. But you've played a lot of 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:20.120 like super tough, fucked up, like jail con you know, 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.320 drug dealers, all this stuff, And I feel like it's 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.120 so authentic because it's probably taps into you covering growing 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.319 up in like a tougher neighborhood, and you know, pretending 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:37.000 to be like a really tough kind of exterior person. Absolutely. Yeah, 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.760 And you've played gay characters in your in your career also. 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.400 But but I just think you're you're really good with 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.640 a gun. You've done so much gun work. You've done 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.800 so much, so much work. Can somebody pull that for 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:50.760 the tape? Can somebody pull that for the tape? You've 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:55.720 done a lot of gun gun work. Yeah, that's that's yeah. Um. 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.720 But you've also every time you're in like a jail suit, like, 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:00.960 haven't you been? Because I've been convent a few times 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:05.160 and you're like, this is my fifties. Yeah a million times. Yes, 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.839 I've done law and order like five six times, and 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.200 you know, five out of the six I've been a 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.800 convict in a in an orange jumpsuit. We neither murdered 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:22.800 someone or raped someone or yeah me pedophile, Brian. Our 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.079 right is our rite of passage is doing law and 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.760 order if you're especially in New York, right, that is 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:32.160 a rite of path. Yeah, it really is. Uh, Katie, 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.840 what about you? When did you start thinking this was 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.720 your path? Oh? My god, damn it. I got the 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:41.000 bug like very early. I just always was one of 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.360 those you could probably tell annoying little girls who was 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:49.520 just looking for attention and applause, and my parents probably 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:51.880 messed up the other direction, telling me that I was 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:57.800 special too often. But in all honest you, my mom 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.360 like always danced as her like workout, like I grew 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.160 up in Queens and my mom was a mover, like 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.320 she just she's a yoga teacher now, but she just 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:08.240 was always a mover. So we were always in like 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:12.040 mommy daughter dance class on Thursdays at like five, and 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.760 I just remember being in little like recitals when I 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.880 was three, four, five, six, seven, And you know, then 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.800 in fourth grade, I got Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz. 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:25.600 Like it just was never I never questioned. When I 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.320 was twelve. I grew up right outside the city and 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.840 I remember screaming, crying, begging my dad for an agent. 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:35.800 He was like ab so that, like he was like 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.680 absolutely not. If you want to do the school plays 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.280 and you know, community theater and you want to go 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.320 to dance class, I will support that wholeheartedly. And even 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:46.080 if you decide to major in it and go to 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:49.400 school for it, I will also support that, which at 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.440 the time I didn't realize what a gift. That was 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.280 until I ended up going to school and realized how 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.280 many kids. Parents were like, there's no way. But by 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:58.640 the way, now that I have kids, I'm like they 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.960 weren't wrong, but anyway, But but my dad was like, 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:06.240 there's no way you're doing anything professional until you decide 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.880 as an adult that that's the path you want to follow. 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.000 But like, you're going to be a regular kid. And 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.520 so I did every little role from chorus to this that, 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.040 and then when I started doing it professionally, I was like, 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.760 oh my god, this sucks. This is so hard. Like 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.440 I didn't realize like I had always been such the 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.680 goody two shoe people. Please are like the best in 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:29.840 my class. Get the monologue, this, that and the other thing. 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.320 And then it was like record scratch stop. At like 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.560 twenty one, it was like, you're never working. You're going 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.200 to be a waitress for a decade. You are going 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:43.160 to fucking fight for this tooth and nail, and you 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.400 will work harder than you've ever worked for this dream 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.240 that a lot of other people have. And it took 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.560 ten years before and also probably fifteen auditions in front 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:57.000 of Seanna Rhymes. Although she'll say to you I Katie 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:58.920 just came in. No, no, no, that was like my 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.160 I had been on private Practice, I had been on Grays, 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:04.960 I had done all of it. I had tested for 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:08.320 her previous shows. But Scandal was really the thing where 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.400 I was like, Oh, I can stop my side hustle. 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:13.520 I don't have to nanny, I don't have to be 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:15.640 a personal assistant. I don't have to be a fucking 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.880 caterer all of these things right. Meanwhile, my parents were 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:24.280 just always very supportive but felt, I think, really nervous, 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:26.520 Like I remember being twenty eight and like fighting for 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.520 health insurance and you know, driving my rent a wreck 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.640 around in Los Angeles looking at my Thomas guide of 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.080 how to get to my third rejection of the day, 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.680 and my parents were like, I don't know how long 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.720 this is going to go. And to be honest, I 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.520 don't know if I got I respect so many I 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.120 have wonderfully talented friends in their forties and fifties who 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.160 are still fighting that fight, and I don't know if 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:51.760 I would have had it in me. I don't know. 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.480 I'd like to think so like I'm an artist and 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:58.920 an actor through and through, but man, that sucked. Yeah, 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:03.120 it's tough. It's really tough. But in terms of your path, 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.600 you decided to go to TISH. I assume that's what 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.000 you're referring to and your parents supporting you, Yeah, through Tish. 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:13.320 Don't believe that were you process based at that point 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:17.679 or were you or was it about the business? I 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.639 was not about the business at all. I was the 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:24.360 weird experimental theater wing like rolling around on the floor 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.360 working with like thinking I was making the greatest art 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.800 that's ever been created in the Tri State area. Like 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:36.120 everybody got body lice. It was awesome. Like we were 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:40.560 writing our names and permanent markers, holding umbrellas naked. It 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:43.000 was so crazy. Tish was so expensive and the best 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.560 thing they ever gave. They would be like, here's fifty bucks, 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:47.480 Like go make a play, Like you're lucky that we 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.879 gave you a little black box theater with forty seats, 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.760 and god did we make the most of it. I thought. 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.520 But my parents, who always loved that I did musicals, 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.800 they came to one of my first Tish plays where 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:03.120 I took my top off and someone had to masturbate 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.480 in the play, and I remember my parents sitting in 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:10.480 the front row being like, oh, my god, and it's 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:12.600 a great play. It's bay Rout like Mercytoma did it 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:14.880 off Broadway, like it's super legit, Like I'm not like 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.679 it was a fucking it's a great play. But they're like, 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:21.359 this is not Hello Dolly, what happened to Guys and 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.879 Dolls or Carousel or like Pirates and Pansans? And I 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.520 was like, um, mom, I am an artist. Now I 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:32.840 am a drama nature, this is drama. My boobs are 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.360 going to be out. Thank god the iPhone didn't exist then, 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:39.320 you know, thank god, thank god. I was just naked 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:43.400 all the time, all up on that stage, just naked naked. 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.399 Did you, guys, do you feel like growing up in 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:54.880 New York influenced you and your esthetic, your career paths, 0:18:55.000 --> 0:19:00.560 your desire to create naked art. I think I think 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:04.560 growing up in New York certainly gave me an edge 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.400 that I, um, you know, at the time. I don't 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:09.719 know if I appreciated it as much at the time 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:14.560 as I do now. But similar to Katie, I joined 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.240 a theater company called Labyrinth. We did the same sort 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.600 of thing we would, you know, we had a sort 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.240 of a rundown space on fifty third Street between like 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.800 tenth and eleventh Avenue, and we would go backstage where 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.520 there were bags of old masks and costumes and we 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:34.560 would dress up and do kabuki makeup and then get 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.160 on the stage and perform and move however we wanted 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.520 to move. And and a lot of those artists are 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:45.520 like Daphne Rubin, Vega, David Zaya's, Philip symour Hoffman, John like, 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:49.400 it was all Stephen Dlee Gergiz who who is an 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.800 amazing playwright. And so this was the group of people 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.280 that I was rolling around just like U Katie on 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:59.040 this like you know, old like dusty stage. But it 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:01.840 and again we were we were in in New York 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.320 City in the early nineties doing this. So it was 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:08.320 you know, I remember going to the theater and being like, okay, 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:10.080 I hope I don't get mugged. I had to walk 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:12.399 really fast and I have to, you know, keep my 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:14.240 head down. And it was it was it was a 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.200 journey to the theater hoping you weren't going to get 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:20.320 jumped by someone at at nine point, which happened a 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:22.879 lot in New York. But but again that gave I 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.280 think that gave me a certain and all of us 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.440 in that group gave us a certain edge which I 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.480 love so much, and I move through, you know, the 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.200 rest of my career even now. I moved around in 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.840 the world with that inside me, and I love that. 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.480 When you get out of school and you start auditioning 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.959 for things, Guillermo for you struggles early on? Did you 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:08.280 find it? Um, Yes, you're not my God. Absolutely, it 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.040 was a you know, I mean, talking about it now, 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.320 it sounds like it was something that happened very quickly. 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.200 It took I think it took even longer than ten years. 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:19.520 For me. It was it was constantly pounding the pavement 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:22.760 and you know, dealing with rejection and again, like I 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.200 said earlier, doing I did a ton of extra work. 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:28.200 I was doing extra work on student films. That's how 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:36.880 fucking films on podcast did we curse? But yeah, that's 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:39.719 how That's how like down low I was. But you know, 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.600 with all that set, I loved it. I still loved it. 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:46.560 It was still so much fun and exciting and exhilarating 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:48.520 to be in front of the camera whenever I was 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:51.640 or on stage. But yeah, it was a constant, constant, 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:54.280 constant struggle. Even I mean, Katie, I think I'll agree 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.760 with me. Like even now, it's a constant struggle. Now 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:02.720 had three huge rejections last week. Oh god, I'm got it. 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:06.360 My god, I'm still doing this like yeah, I mean 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:10.199 just dragged over the coals for like a while just 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:12.480 to get like a big fat no at the end 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.719 of it all. It's like, oh my god, but you 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:19.480 know what I just I think you have to be 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:23.040 like I don't know. I don't want to say stupid, 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:30.280 that's not right. But there's some like faith, hope, naivete, 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.680 whatever it is to think that like this day is 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:36.080 going to be different, or this opportunity is going to 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:38.960 be different. It's different. Now, Yes, I think you're right, 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:40.959 Like there has to be something where it's like I 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:44.919 think someone might give me a shot, Like yeah, I 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:47.280 also think what we were asking before about the New 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:49.880 York edge. I remember moving to LA and being like, 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:54.480 is anybody doing anything? Like I remember like New York 0:22:55.040 --> 0:23:00.840 you're at like you're early two things. You fight for 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:03.320 your place, like like if this is a contest of 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:05.720 like how hard you can work, Like I feel like 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:09.440 New Yorkers work pretty hard to get what they want, 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:12.040 you know. And I remember moving out to Los Angeles 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:14.199 and so many people were calling themselves actors, but they 0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:17.960 weren't doing anything. Like I was like, Okay, I'm in class, 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:19.320 and then I go to waitressing the I'm gonna go 0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:20.960 to babysitting and then I'm gonna try to meet this 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:23.600 person and then maybe this casting director will have lunch 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:25.720 with me, and then maybe they'll give me a babysitting job, 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:27.240 and then I'm gonna go back to acting class, and 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:29.480 then I'm gonna try to keep my body in mental 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.040