Speaker 1: How was that filming together? It was that fun as hell.
Speaker 1: It was so much fun. I say that about nobody else.
Speaker 1: By the way, the times on the show that I
Speaker 1: got to torture people or have crazy like on camera
Speaker 1: sex with Quinn were the most fun ever. You know
Speaker 1: what it means real. Debbie Allen directed the first episode
Speaker 1: where we had to I smack your face, then you
Speaker 1: grab my cheeks so that I can't speak. You're like
Speaker 1: hurting my face and oh I smacked him so hard
Speaker 1: his ears was ringing. It was all my earing for
Speaker 1: like half an hour. I've talked about this on other shows,
Speaker 1: but I was like, Katie, smack me for real, like
Speaker 1: do it for real, for real? And then I was like,
Speaker 1: what did you say, Debbie? Like I couldn't hear. Hi.
Speaker 1: My name is Katie Lows and I really liked this podcast.
Speaker 1: Hi guys, my name is Giermo Diaz and I just
Speaker 1: watched a rat run across my backyard twice. Well, hello everyone,
Speaker 1: and welcome back here to Off the Beat. I am
Speaker 1: your host, Brian Baumgartner, and today is a very special
Speaker 1: day because today we have not one, but two exciting guests.
Speaker 1: That's right, it's a threesome Katie Lowe's and Guillermo Diaz. Now.
Speaker 1: I met Katie and Guermo for the first time today,
Speaker 1: but they met a decade ago on the set of Scandal,
Speaker 1: one of the most popular shows well, certainly in the
Speaker 1: last decade, and for good reason. It has politics, it
Speaker 1: has drama, but most of all, it has Katie and Guermo.
Speaker 1: Now they're actually starting their own Scandal podcast called Unpacking
Speaker 1: the Toolbox. I've heard the trailer and it is fantastic.
Speaker 1: Lots of scandal, but that's expected. They're here today to
Speaker 1: talk about their early days as actors struggling in New York,
Speaker 1: their time on Scandal, what it means to be a
Speaker 1: part of the Shondaland universe, and both of their most
Speaker 1: recent shows, Law and Order Organized Crime for Guillermo and
Speaker 1: the most talked about show of the last year, Inventing
Speaker 1: Anna for Katie. They're delightful together. I didn't even need
Speaker 1: to be here, but guess what I was. So here
Speaker 1: they are Katie Lowe's and Guillermo Diaz. Bubbalue, I love it,
Speaker 1: Bubble Bubble and squee Cook get every more from the nut. Hi, guys,
Speaker 1: how are you good? How are you. I'm good. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know I'm lurking in the background, so I hear.
Speaker 1: I mean, we should keep the conversation going. Arm You're
Speaker 1: going to Vegas this weekend. That's fantastic. I am No,
Speaker 1: You're not like a Vegas dude to me, but like maybe,
Speaker 1: And I'm always learning new things from this friendship. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love Vegas. I really love it. I mean I
Speaker 1: can't go for more than like two days, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. But I'm excited. We're gonna see the
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson show out there. Oh it's so good. I
Speaker 1: saw it. I did. Oh nice. Yeah, I'm super excited
Speaker 1: about that. Saw it. And you know what's so funny?
Speaker 1: Did you guys watch the Chris Rock special? Yes? I
Speaker 1: haven't seen it, but I've heard about it. Yes. It
Speaker 1: got me thinking because he was saying how like people
Speaker 1: are selectively outraged out or outrage and He's like, why
Speaker 1: are we allowed to watch Michael listen to Michael Jackson
Speaker 1: but we're not allowed to listen to R Kelly? Do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like, anyway, whatever you feel
Speaker 1: about that, I'm not trying to be provocative right now,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, I'm trying to ask You're trying to
Speaker 1: be provocative, but ask that question in myself because I've
Speaker 1: seen the Michael Jackson Show and I love Michael Jackson music,
Speaker 1: and then I and I know what he's done, and
Speaker 1: then I would never see a musical about R Kelly. No.
Speaker 1: So I just, yeah, I don't know what's happening in
Speaker 1: my brain. Yeah, it's crazy that he presented that. And
Speaker 1: then it makes you, it really makes you think, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and like everybody's different what they feel, because I have
Speaker 1: friends who are like, we'll walk off a dancelor of
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson comes on really one hundred percent, like they
Speaker 1: are like, absolutely not. I don't endorse support any of
Speaker 1: this music. This person was incredibly sick and and just
Speaker 1: broke laws and hurt people and children, and so I'm
Speaker 1: out and I'm like, fuck, I'm a bad person. I'm
Speaker 1: just like doing the moonwalk like my best impression in
Speaker 1: the I mean, Gammo, this sounds like kind of an
Speaker 1: indictment of you. How are you feeling right now about
Speaker 1: to go to Vegas and watch the show. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's right? What the fuck? Man? Well, I've seen it
Speaker 1: and was just saying I was endorsing it because I
Speaker 1: loved it amazing. Um, you guys, I mean I have
Speaker 1: to start with what is secretly wrong with Bellamy Young.
Speaker 1: I just had the opportunity to work with her. She
Speaker 1: seems way too kind a person. There must be something
Speaker 1: work with her on. We're working on a new show,
Speaker 1: The Other Black Girl for Hulu. Yes, I find her
Speaker 1: way too delightful, So there must be something wrong with her,
Speaker 1: there is it? There is your hate a vegan unless
Speaker 1: you hate vegans or you hate animal lovers. Those would
Speaker 1: be the only things to check. She loves animals and
Speaker 1: she doesn't eat them. Okay. Other than that, she's pretty
Speaker 1: gloriously perfect. Yeah, but you're you're feeling, you're thinking is
Speaker 1: correct because when I first met her, I thought the
Speaker 1: same too. I was like, this is a way too
Speaker 1: like is this real? And then you come to find
Speaker 1: out years later that she's that exact same person every
Speaker 1: single day with you, and she's just she has the
Speaker 1: biggest heart and the most loving kind person. I know
Speaker 1: she really is, but she is. She's pretty fantastic. She's
Speaker 1: pretty fantastic. She's exceptional. Also, it's like disarming, like I
Speaker 1: don't know where you're from. Originally Brian, but I don't know,
Speaker 1: like a lot of like Southern bells, like say she's
Speaker 1: belly but okay, so she's like I was like, the
Speaker 1: what the hell is this? Like I'm from New York.
Speaker 1: I've never met women that are like that, Like like
Speaker 1: she's very Oh god, Josh Milenet used to drive him
Speaker 1: so crazy on Scandal because she's a big hugger and
Speaker 1: kiss her and very warm. But she also she's just
Speaker 1: the person on our WhatsApp like Scandal change. She knows
Speaker 1: everybody's birthday, everybody's anniversary, and it is like so conscious
Speaker 1: about that. It's like pretty remarkable. Is that a Southern
Speaker 1: thing you're from there, Brian? Is that a Southern woman thing? Um?
Speaker 1: I mean my mom does that, so I guess yes, yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it's blue Mountain cards generally, blue Mountain messages.
Speaker 1: Generally it's those from my aunt Maureen. What are those?
Speaker 1: That's a blue Mountain message? I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1: It's a it's basically I mean, it's still a kind gesture,
Speaker 1: which I guess. I guess it's more effort than just
Speaker 1: a text, if that's what Bellamy does. But it is
Speaker 1: a virtual card that you open usually has some sort
Speaker 1: of dancing flower flower yes, and it says like wishing
Speaker 1: you a great day. It's like an e card. But
Speaker 1: the company is called Blue Mountain, and I that is
Speaker 1: classic in my family as well. Yes, all right, I
Speaker 1: want to go back to your childhood. I want to
Speaker 1: go back to your time growing up, both of you,
Speaker 1: each of you. When did you start becoming interested in
Speaker 1: the arts? Are acting? Gee, Guillermo? For me, it happened
Speaker 1: when I was in high school. I was a sophomore
Speaker 1: in high school and I did a talent show where
Speaker 1: we did a medley of songs by the Beastie Boys
Speaker 1: and I played Mike d And it was the first
Speaker 1: time I was on stage, and I just fell in
Speaker 1: love with performing, and I thought, this is what I
Speaker 1: want to do. And then from that point on, I
Speaker 1: just really really focused on pursuing it. I bought Backstage.
Speaker 1: There used to be a newspaper called Backstage, and you know,
Speaker 1: you circle the auditions and open calls and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: I did a ton of extra work and background work
Speaker 1: and do it in films, and I just I really
Speaker 1: just wanted to act, and I pounded the pavement and
Speaker 1: I just I you know, and I just kept going.
Speaker 1: So that's that's how it started for me. But let
Speaker 1: me ask you this, so you can You're on a
Speaker 1: talent show stage as the Beastie Boys, Like, what was
Speaker 1: the impetus behind wanting to do that? Or? Right? You
Speaker 1: just kind of conned by your friends into doing this somewhat.
Speaker 1: I didn't even I didn't even want to be in
Speaker 1: the Talent show. But one of the guys dropped out
Speaker 1: that was playing Mike d and my friends were like, Garamo,
Speaker 1: you please just do this for us, do as this
Speaker 1: solid And I was like, all right, And that's sort
Speaker 1: of how it happened. So I wasn't even looking for it.
Speaker 1: I wasn't even thinking about, you know, wanting to do
Speaker 1: the Talent show. It just sort of fell in my lap.
Speaker 1: And then it was it was a you know, really
Speaker 1: exciting surprise that I that I loved it so much?
Speaker 1: Did you kill? It? Was the audience, like in the pod,
Speaker 1: I have it, I have it, it's recorded, like I
Speaker 1: have it, I have it on tape. Yeah it's on
Speaker 1: a VHS. Yeah, well but you haven't changed it over yet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you got to change it over. You haven't to an
Speaker 1: electronic file. Let me tell you something, Gearmo, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: you can't. This is not going to survive. If you've
Speaker 1: moved from it might be messed up to New York compartment.
Speaker 1: This is gonna get you know, damaged in some way.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I really, I'm going to transfer
Speaker 1: it over. There's there's a photo on my Instagram of
Speaker 1: us three dressed like the Beastie Boys from that night.
Speaker 1: If you scroll through on my Instagram, there's a photo
Speaker 1: your life and then and then years later. Fun fact,
Speaker 1: years later, I did a movie called Half Baked and
Speaker 1: Tamer Davis directed it, and she I couldn't believe that
Speaker 1: she was married to Mike d And I got to
Speaker 1: tell this story to Mike d into, Tama Davis and too,
Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle, and that's amazing. Yeah, you have said in
Speaker 1: the past that hiding the fact that you were gay
Speaker 1: growing up gave you a crash course in acting. Can
Speaker 1: you can you talk to me a little bit about
Speaker 1: that or why you feel that way it did? Man?
Speaker 1: You know, when you're when you're growing up in in
Speaker 1: in New York City and Washington Heights in the eighties,
Speaker 1: you know, we I did a lot of lying a
Speaker 1: lot of lying, a lot of hiding, a lot of
Speaker 1: you know, just suppressing all all things gay that I
Speaker 1: knew I was, and and it really does it makes
Speaker 1: you It made me a really good actor because I,
Speaker 1: you know, I just sort of, you know, rolled along
Speaker 1: throughout my world acting like I wasn't gay, and it
Speaker 1: just sort of helped my acting. And it's sort of
Speaker 1: a messed up thing to think about, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, because I was I was hurting inside in
Speaker 1: the fact that I was hiding and lying to my parents,
Speaker 1: to friends like that was all really sad to me,
Speaker 1: but it was it was a performance I had to
Speaker 1: keep keep doing and keep up if I wanted to
Speaker 1: sort of you know, survive for lack of a better word,
Speaker 1: and you know where I grew up, you know. I
Speaker 1: also think it sort of relates so much to like
Speaker 1: Gammo's had the most incredible run of playing so many
Speaker 1: different types of parts. But you've played a lot of
Speaker 1: like super tough, fucked up, like jail con you know,
Speaker 1: drug dealers, all this stuff, And I feel like it's
Speaker 1: so authentic because it's probably taps into you covering growing
Speaker 1: up in like a tougher neighborhood, and you know, pretending
Speaker 1: to be like a really tough kind of exterior person. Absolutely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And you've played gay characters in your in your career also.
Speaker 1: But but I just think you're you're really good with
Speaker 1: a gun. You've done so much gun work. You've done
Speaker 1: so much, so much work. Can somebody pull that for
Speaker 1: the tape? Can somebody pull that for the tape? You've
Speaker 1: done a lot of gun gun work. Yeah, that's that's yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: But you've also every time you're in like a jail suit, like,
Speaker 1: haven't you been? Because I've been convent a few times
Speaker 1: and you're like, this is my fifties. Yeah a million times. Yes,
Speaker 1: I've done law and order like five six times, and
Speaker 1: you know, five out of the six I've been a
Speaker 1: convict in a in an orange jumpsuit. We neither murdered
Speaker 1: someone or raped someone or yeah me pedophile, Brian. Our
Speaker 1: right is our rite of passage is doing law and
Speaker 1: order if you're especially in New York, right, that is
Speaker 1: a rite of path. Yeah, it really is. Uh, Katie,
Speaker 1: what about you? When did you start thinking this was
Speaker 1: your path? Oh? My god, damn it. I got the
Speaker 1: bug like very early. I just always was one of
Speaker 1: those you could probably tell annoying little girls who was
Speaker 1: just looking for attention and applause, and my parents probably
Speaker 1: messed up the other direction, telling me that I was
Speaker 1: special too often. But in all honest you, my mom
Speaker 1: like always danced as her like workout, like I grew
Speaker 1: up in Queens and my mom was a mover, like
Speaker 1: she just she's a yoga teacher now, but she just
Speaker 1: was always a mover. So we were always in like
Speaker 1: mommy daughter dance class on Thursdays at like five, and
Speaker 1: I just remember being in little like recitals when I
Speaker 1: was three, four, five, six, seven, And you know, then
Speaker 1: in fourth grade, I got Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz.
Speaker 1: Like it just was never I never questioned. When I
Speaker 1: was twelve. I grew up right outside the city and
Speaker 1: I remember screaming, crying, begging my dad for an agent.
Speaker 1: He was like ab so that, like he was like
Speaker 1: absolutely not. If you want to do the school plays
Speaker 1: and you know, community theater and you want to go
Speaker 1: to dance class, I will support that wholeheartedly. And even
Speaker 1: if you decide to major in it and go to
Speaker 1: school for it, I will also support that, which at
Speaker 1: the time I didn't realize what a gift. That was
Speaker 1: until I ended up going to school and realized how
Speaker 1: many kids. Parents were like, there's no way. But by
Speaker 1: the way, now that I have kids, I'm like they
Speaker 1: weren't wrong, but anyway, But but my dad was like,
Speaker 1: there's no way you're doing anything professional until you decide
Speaker 1: as an adult that that's the path you want to follow.
Speaker 1: But like, you're going to be a regular kid. And
Speaker 1: so I did every little role from chorus to this that,
Speaker 1: and then when I started doing it professionally, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this sucks. This is so hard. Like
Speaker 1: I didn't realize like I had always been such the
Speaker 1: goody two shoe people. Please are like the best in
Speaker 1: my class. Get the monologue, this, that and the other thing.
Speaker 1: And then it was like record scratch stop. At like
Speaker 1: twenty one, it was like, you're never working. You're going
Speaker 1: to be a waitress for a decade. You are going
Speaker 1: to fucking fight for this tooth and nail, and you
Speaker 1: will work harder than you've ever worked for this dream
Speaker 1: that a lot of other people have. And it took
Speaker 1: ten years before and also probably fifteen auditions in front
Speaker 1: of Seanna Rhymes. Although she'll say to you I Katie
Speaker 1: just came in. No, no, no, that was like my
Speaker 1: I had been on private Practice, I had been on Grays,
Speaker 1: I had done all of it. I had tested for
Speaker 1: her previous shows. But Scandal was really the thing where
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, I can stop my side hustle.
Speaker 1: I don't have to nanny, I don't have to be
Speaker 1: a personal assistant. I don't have to be a fucking
Speaker 1: caterer all of these things right. Meanwhile, my parents were
Speaker 1: just always very supportive but felt, I think, really nervous,
Speaker 1: Like I remember being twenty eight and like fighting for
Speaker 1: health insurance and you know, driving my rent a wreck
Speaker 1: around in Los Angeles looking at my Thomas guide of
Speaker 1: how to get to my third rejection of the day,
Speaker 1: and my parents were like, I don't know how long
Speaker 1: this is going to go. And to be honest, I
Speaker 1: don't know if I got I respect so many I
Speaker 1: have wonderfully talented friends in their forties and fifties who
Speaker 1: are still fighting that fight, and I don't know if
Speaker 1: I would have had it in me. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'd like to think so like I'm an artist and
Speaker 1: an actor through and through, but man, that sucked. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's tough. It's really tough. But in terms of your path,
Speaker 1: you decided to go to TISH. I assume that's what
Speaker 1: you're referring to and your parents supporting you, Yeah, through Tish.
Speaker 1: Don't believe that were you process based at that point
Speaker 1: or were you or was it about the business? I
Speaker 1: was not about the business at all. I was the
Speaker 1: weird experimental theater wing like rolling around on the floor
Speaker 1: working with like thinking I was making the greatest art
Speaker 1: that's ever been created in the Tri State area. Like
Speaker 1: everybody got body lice. It was awesome. Like we were
Speaker 1: writing our names and permanent markers, holding umbrellas naked. It
Speaker 1: was so crazy. Tish was so expensive and the best
Speaker 1: thing they ever gave. They would be like, here's fifty bucks,
Speaker 1: Like go make a play, Like you're lucky that we
Speaker 1: gave you a little black box theater with forty seats,
Speaker 1: and god did we make the most of it. I thought.
Speaker 1: But my parents, who always loved that I did musicals,
Speaker 1: they came to one of my first Tish plays where
Speaker 1: I took my top off and someone had to masturbate
Speaker 1: in the play, and I remember my parents sitting in
Speaker 1: the front row being like, oh, my god, and it's
Speaker 1: a great play. It's bay Rout like Mercytoma did it
Speaker 1: off Broadway, like it's super legit, Like I'm not like
Speaker 1: it was a fucking it's a great play. But they're like,
Speaker 1: this is not Hello Dolly, what happened to Guys and
Speaker 1: Dolls or Carousel or like Pirates and Pansans? And I
Speaker 1: was like, um, mom, I am an artist. Now I
Speaker 1: am a drama nature, this is drama. My boobs are
Speaker 1: going to be out. Thank god the iPhone didn't exist then,
Speaker 1: you know, thank god, thank god. I was just naked
Speaker 1: all the time, all up on that stage, just naked naked.
Speaker 1: Did you, guys, do you feel like growing up in
Speaker 1: New York influenced you and your esthetic, your career paths,
Speaker 1: your desire to create naked art. I think I think
Speaker 1: growing up in New York certainly gave me an edge
Speaker 1: that I, um, you know, at the time. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I appreciated it as much at the time
Speaker 1: as I do now. But similar to Katie, I joined
Speaker 1: a theater company called Labyrinth. We did the same sort
Speaker 1: of thing we would, you know, we had a sort
Speaker 1: of a rundown space on fifty third Street between like
Speaker 1: tenth and eleventh Avenue, and we would go backstage where
Speaker 1: there were bags of old masks and costumes and we
Speaker 1: would dress up and do kabuki makeup and then get
Speaker 1: on the stage and perform and move however we wanted
Speaker 1: to move. And and a lot of those artists are
Speaker 1: like Daphne Rubin, Vega, David Zaya's, Philip symour Hoffman, John like,
Speaker 1: it was all Stephen Dlee Gergiz who who is an
Speaker 1: amazing playwright. And so this was the group of people
Speaker 1: that I was rolling around just like U Katie on
Speaker 1: this like you know, old like dusty stage. But it
Speaker 1: and again we were we were in in New York
Speaker 1: City in the early nineties doing this. So it was
Speaker 1: you know, I remember going to the theater and being like, okay,
Speaker 1: I hope I don't get mugged. I had to walk
Speaker 1: really fast and I have to, you know, keep my
Speaker 1: head down. And it was it was it was a
Speaker 1: journey to the theater hoping you weren't going to get
Speaker 1: jumped by someone at at nine point, which happened a
Speaker 1: lot in New York. But but again that gave I
Speaker 1: think that gave me a certain and all of us
Speaker 1: in that group gave us a certain edge which I
Speaker 1: love so much, and I move through, you know, the
Speaker 1: rest of my career even now. I moved around in
Speaker 1: the world with that inside me, and I love that.
Speaker 1: When you get out of school and you start auditioning
Speaker 1: for things, Guillermo for you struggles early on? Did you
Speaker 1: find it? Um, Yes, you're not my God. Absolutely, it
Speaker 1: was a you know, I mean, talking about it now,
Speaker 1: it sounds like it was something that happened very quickly.
Speaker 1: It took I think it took even longer than ten years.
Speaker 1: For me. It was it was constantly pounding the pavement
Speaker 1: and you know, dealing with rejection and again, like I
Speaker 1: said earlier, doing I did a ton of extra work.
Speaker 1: I was doing extra work on student films. That's how
Speaker 1: fucking films on podcast did we curse? But yeah, that's
Speaker 1: how That's how like down low I was. But you know,
Speaker 1: with all that set, I loved it. I still loved it.
Speaker 1: It was still so much fun and exciting and exhilarating
Speaker 1: to be in front of the camera whenever I was
Speaker 1: or on stage. But yeah, it was a constant, constant,
Speaker 1: constant struggle. Even I mean, Katie, I think I'll agree
Speaker 1: with me. Like even now, it's a constant struggle. Now
Speaker 1: had three huge rejections last week. Oh god, I'm got it.
Speaker 1: My god, I'm still doing this like yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: just dragged over the coals for like a while just
Speaker 1: to get like a big fat no at the end
Speaker 1: of it all. It's like, oh my god, but you
Speaker 1: know what I just I think you have to be
Speaker 1: like I don't know. I don't want to say stupid,
Speaker 1: that's not right. But there's some like faith, hope, naivete,
Speaker 1: whatever it is to think that like this day is
Speaker 1: going to be different, or this opportunity is going to
Speaker 1: be different. It's different. Now, Yes, I think you're right,
Speaker 1: Like there has to be something where it's like I
Speaker 1: think someone might give me a shot, Like yeah, I
Speaker 1: also think what we were asking before about the New
Speaker 1: York edge. I remember moving to LA and being like,
Speaker 1: is anybody doing anything? Like I remember like New York
Speaker 1: you're at like you're early two things. You fight for
Speaker 1: your place, like like if this is a contest of
Speaker 1: like how hard you can work, Like I feel like
Speaker 1: New Yorkers work pretty hard to get what they want,
Speaker 1: you know. And I remember moving out to Los Angeles
Speaker 1: and so many people were calling themselves actors, but they
Speaker 1: weren't doing anything. Like I was like, Okay, I'm in class,
Speaker 1: and then I go to waitressing the I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: to babysitting and then I'm gonna try to meet this
Speaker 1: person and then maybe this casting director will have lunch
Speaker 1: with me, and then maybe they'll give me a babysitting job,
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna go back to acting class, and
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna try to keep my body in mental
Speaker 1: health and shape. Like I just remember like studying my
Speaker 1: auditions and things like that, and I started a theater company,
Speaker 1: and like you know, I was just like hustling, And
Speaker 1: I feel like that always gave me such an edge
Speaker 1: because there were so many people out in LA who
Speaker 1: were just far more laid back and chill. I feel
Speaker 1: like people in LA were all sort of hyper focused
Speaker 1: on like a really great head shot. Yeah, like you know,
Speaker 1: that sort of superficial type of stuff as opposed to
Speaker 1: like really like finding work and working on monologues or
Speaker 1: finding a you know what, theater to do a plan
Speaker 1: or stuff like that. Yeah. But I think not just
Speaker 1: in acting or theater, but in the world, in whatever
Speaker 1: business that you're in, the amount of work outside of
Speaker 1: doing the thing that you do to prepare you to
Speaker 1: do the thing that you do is so important and
Speaker 1: doesn't get enough credit. You hear the word lucky a lot,
Speaker 1: or like right place at the right time, or you
Speaker 1: met the right person or whatever. But I think all
Speaker 1: of those things are a product of all of that
Speaker 1: work that you're doing outside of the thing that you're
Speaker 1: trying to do. I completely agree. Sometimes I'm like lucky
Speaker 1: enough to go in and I like talk to a
Speaker 1: little Like I said, I started a theater company like
Speaker 1: sixteen years ago, and I go in sometimes to like
Speaker 1: classrooms of like twenty like younger actors, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: what are you you doing though? Like nine to If
Speaker 1: this is your job, right and you're going to work
Speaker 1: at least forty hours a week on this, you should more,
Speaker 1: by the way, Like what does that mean if you
Speaker 1: don't have someone paying you right now currently to act?
Speaker 1: Like what are the hours filled with? And to me,
Speaker 1: that's also like therapy walking all of that stuff. But
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is such a mental physical game of
Speaker 1: like longevity and stability and being able to when opportunity
Speaker 1: does finally knock to be able to show up with
Speaker 1: all of the work you've done on yourself and on
Speaker 1: the an an acting itself, and you're ready to be there.
Speaker 1: Because I have also seen people sabotage the shit out
Speaker 1: of those opportunities, like badly because the outside stuff that
Speaker 1: you work on was not there. I mean it's wild, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I always you know, because
Speaker 1: I did. I did theater for a number of years
Speaker 1: and really thought that that was my path path. And
Speaker 1: I say, now, when I moved to Los Angeles, I
Speaker 1: was still an actor, but I felt like I changed
Speaker 1: careers because for me, the business work outside, be it networking,
Speaker 1: be it what's happening in the world of film and television,
Speaker 1: is equally, if not more important than all of that stuff. Yep, No,
Speaker 1: it's a big The business side of it is also huge.
Speaker 1: I mean, oh my god, Like you said, some of
Speaker 1: these greatest actors I went to school with didn't have
Speaker 1: the business head or the business savvy of like how
Speaker 1: to make a business of yourself and sell yourself. I
Speaker 1: mean there's also all of that. I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: a lot. You've got to have a very odd combination
Speaker 1: of like artists and artistry and at the same time
Speaker 1: this business sense and this business savvy of how to
Speaker 1: work it that's authentic and feels good to you. I mean,
Speaker 1: I used to waitress at a restaurant, and bless her
Speaker 1: when my best friends used to write her fucking website
Speaker 1: with her reel on every check because we would wait
Speaker 1: on Ryan Murphy and the creator of Batman, and Cullen
Speaker 1: and Justin Timberlake, I mean a freaking everybody. This was
Speaker 1: the power hour lunch spot, and that never felt authentic
Speaker 1: to me, Like I just like I could talk and
Speaker 1: and be like, hey, I just had an audition, you know,
Speaker 1: like something barely that and I used to come home
Speaker 1: and feel like shit that I was missing my opportunity.
Speaker 1: And she totally got a job out of that. She
Speaker 1: got a nine episode recurring part. I would have I
Speaker 1: would have gone on that on that website. She's good.
Speaker 1: She went to a fucking great actor. Um. She has
Speaker 1: since now retired from the business, but at the time
Speaker 1: she was totally hustling. And so that's what I mean
Speaker 1: to say, Like, you have to figure out how to
Speaker 1: work the business like in a way that feels good
Speaker 1: to you. For example, I was a babysitter nanny for
Speaker 1: two big asking directors who have both are two out
Speaker 1: of the three only casting directors in Hollywood who repeatedly
Speaker 1: hire me nobody else really honestly, Like, I've been babysitting
Speaker 1: and they've been family for me for fifteen years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but they wouldn't continue hiring you if you could if
Speaker 1: you didn't deliver. Well, I got the job, the whole team,
Speaker 1: But they're the ones that are the gate caears like
Speaker 1: they get me in there, but luckily you're really good.
Speaker 1: Like if you suck, they would have been like, oh damn,
Speaker 1: we got it. Shouldn't we bring her in again? She's
Speaker 1: really bad, you know what I mean? Well, that could
Speaker 1: work the other way too. It's like I don't want
Speaker 1: to lose my babysitter. Yes, that's true, so you maybe
Speaker 1: here's the key. Be really nice and respectful and appear
Speaker 1: to be artistic and be kind of a shitty babysitting. Right.
Speaker 1: I look back and I'm like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: used to be smoking cigarettes out of the car with
Speaker 1: like fly it out as soon as I would like
Speaker 1: pick her up from school and then I would take
Speaker 1: her to the zoo or whatever. But have like the
Speaker 1: dude I was dating, like, come meet me at the zoo,
Speaker 1: so I would be like double tasking, like babysitting and
Speaker 1: going on a date. I'm not kidding. This is news
Speaker 1: to me. I love this story. Oh my god, I
Speaker 1: was twenty four and such a idiot. Wow. But whatever,
Speaker 1: And they know it now like I'm not. I mean
Speaker 1: I hope they do. If not, now they know, please
Speaker 1: keep hiring me, keep please keep laying me on for you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for you, Katie. Well, early on, I understand
Speaker 1: you appeared on a couple of episodes of both The
Speaker 1: Guiding Light and As the World Turns. Now, I know
Speaker 1: that's not ultimately what you wanted to do for your career,
Speaker 1: but talk to me a little bit about that experience.
Speaker 1: Was it awful or did that teach you something? Yes? Well,
Speaker 1: I got this crazy thing is I got really close
Speaker 1: on both to having like that being my first job
Speaker 1: out of college, like contract roles, like four year contract roles,
Speaker 1: And I always look back and being like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I was so upset that I didn't get it because
Speaker 1: the money would have been great. But I am relieved
Speaker 1: I didn't get it because I think maybe I would
Speaker 1: have stayed there forever, like maybe we still would know
Speaker 1: Katie lows as who the hell knows what their names were,
Speaker 1: but for fifty years, we're going to play that part anyway.
Speaker 1: Oh no, it was awful. It was so embarrassing because
Speaker 1: on both roles I had to oh, no, one, I
Speaker 1: played a nurse that stole drugs and took them. So
Speaker 1: that was exciting. That's a good part. The other one
Speaker 1: was horrifying because I had to like have one of
Speaker 1: those scenes where it's like Oopsie, I forgot my bathing
Speaker 1: suit and like jump into a hot tub that's a
Speaker 1: pretend lake with ferns around it, and I just remember
Speaker 1: feeling so like I was in like a nude thong
Speaker 1: and like the whole crew was around. It wasn't a
Speaker 1: close set, and it was like I just didn't know
Speaker 1: at the time what that was, and I was not
Speaker 1: a comfortable like sexy actor. God, I've been naked. I've
Speaker 1: on this podcast. It sounds like all I do, and
Speaker 1: it is truly not. I had a brief moment in
Speaker 1: my early twenties where this occurred and it has never
Speaker 1: really again, so but I remember just feeling like so
Speaker 1: embarrassed and felt so dumb, like I was like like
Speaker 1: like just oh god, like my acting was terrible. And
Speaker 1: but whatever, it's part, it's part of it. It's it's
Speaker 1: a really just part of the whole thing. God, I
Speaker 1: wish I had it on VHS. I don't know where.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that would be good. I mean, I know
Speaker 1: you only did a few episodes. But the thing that
Speaker 1: I were you on soaps? No, No, But the thing
Speaker 1: that I've always thought about it and heard about it
Speaker 1: is in terms of getting a crash. Course of being
Speaker 1: on camera soaps to me is up another level because
Speaker 1: you're literally being handed pages, get one shot and it's
Speaker 1: done eighty pages a day. They do eighty pages. They
Speaker 1: don't block anything. Every blocking has either three moves you
Speaker 1: could do. It's like a docy dough a like stack
Speaker 1: shot like anything, because they can't move cameras. But it's
Speaker 1: different than a multicam. It's not proscene, you know, it's
Speaker 1: not proscenium staging, so there's only a few moves you
Speaker 1: could do. And yeah, you get one shot, so you
Speaker 1: cannot mess up your lines. It's I got those actors
Speaker 1: and also they have to turn on the emotion and
Speaker 1: the water works in one second, you can't pull out
Speaker 1: the tear stick, and there ain't no tear sticks. It's
Speaker 1: just like you just go and you're just it's really
Speaker 1: really a wild place. Germo. You did not start on soabs,
Speaker 1: but you did a series of episodes on what some
Speaker 1: consider dark Horse greatest thing that ever existed, The Chappelle Show.
Speaker 1: Talk to me a little bit about how that happened
Speaker 1: and what that taught you. Early on, Well, I did
Speaker 1: a movie, the movie I did with Dave Chappelle, Half Baked.
Speaker 1: I did that, so Dave was you know, liked my
Speaker 1: work and doug what I was doing and just brought me.
Speaker 1: He was like, hey, I'm doing this show, Come do
Speaker 1: the show with me. It just felt like a continuation
Speaker 1: of playing, like we were playing when we did the
Speaker 1: movie and he started Chappelle's Show, like if I remember correctly,
Speaker 1: right after the film, and it just felt like we
Speaker 1: just kept playing. You know, we were like these just
Speaker 1: big goofballs and doing these like really provocative sketches that
Speaker 1: Dave and Neil Brennan, who is his co writer, were writing.
Speaker 1: You know, in one of the sketches, he the one
Speaker 1: character uses the N word over and over and over,
Speaker 1: and over and back in the day, they didn't bleep
Speaker 1: the N word, and now if you watch the episodes,
Speaker 1: it's bleeped. But you know, it wasn't It wasn't just
Speaker 1: being used frivolously. It was used where there was a
Speaker 1: you know, there was a lesson and behind all of it,
Speaker 1: and it was so smart and the writing was so intelligent,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I just I remember just feeling really really
Speaker 1: lucky that that Dave gave me that opportunity to work
Speaker 1: on that show with him. And it's funny because before that,
Speaker 1: I had done a show called House of Buggin with
Speaker 1: John Leguizamo, which was a sketch comedy show too, which
Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people sort of really
Speaker 1: heard about or know about. But I feel like I
Speaker 1: got more training there than I did. Like maybe that
Speaker 1: sort of helped me to be able to do Chappelle
Speaker 1: Show because it was a same sort of thing. John
Speaker 1: Leguizamo sort of took me under his wing and then
Speaker 1: brought me onto the show and we would perform it,
Speaker 1: you know, every Thursday after rehearsing all week and wow
Speaker 1: in front of a live audience, and we would do
Speaker 1: all these different characters. Yeah, Gamma is one of those
Speaker 1: actors that can literally do everything. It's so insane, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm also the most insecure, freaking actor in person you
Speaker 1: can ever imagine. I think that's why I'm constantly Like
Speaker 1: me and Katie were talking about this the other day
Speaker 1: because Katie's in an acting class and I was like, Katie,
Speaker 1: I kind of want to go and you know, audit
Speaker 1: the class and possible part of it, just to sort
Speaker 1: of keep keep that instrument oiled up so I don't
Speaker 1: get super anxious when I'm not working for long periods
Speaker 1: of time, you know what I mean? Yeah, were you
Speaker 1: aware working on the Chappelle Show, like before it comes
Speaker 1: out or before it starts getting the attention it does
Speaker 1: that what he was doing and talking about was different
Speaker 1: and unique, not like any other job or for you,
Speaker 1: was it a job and you got to play? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think it was a little bit of both. I
Speaker 1: remember just having such a blast and everything being so
Speaker 1: it was just so funny. I remember just like truly,
Speaker 1: like sincerely cracking up shooting these sketches. But then also
Speaker 1: in the back of my head, I was like, this
Speaker 1: is this is like other level because it wasn't just
Speaker 1: some sort of bs like comedy skit there was again
Speaker 1: there was like a lesson and a point behind all
Speaker 1: of it. So I remember thinking for sure that this
Speaker 1: is something special. You know. Last thing pre Shondalanda have
Speaker 1: to bring up to the two of you. On a
Speaker 1: lot of my bios, it says that I was on
Speaker 1: this little show and an uncredited role. This is, unfortunately
Speaker 1: for me, false Both of you appeared in episodes of
Speaker 1: The Sopranos. Were you were you Katie by the time
Speaker 1: you got on? Were you a fan of the show?
Speaker 1: It was the biggest show ever, Like it was the
Speaker 1: biggest show ever. It was the biggest thing. You were aware? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was on season six, so it was already like
Speaker 1: the biggest show ever. Like what I call my parents
Speaker 1: to tell them I got one line on The Sopranos,
Speaker 1: Like everyone was speechless, Yeah, you were on a two?
Speaker 1: Who did you play? No, that's what I'm saying, A
Speaker 1: false credit right on a bunch of bios. I don't know,
Speaker 1: and I don't think who it is here, Brian that
Speaker 1: they think that I was. It says I was in
Speaker 1: an episode uncredited. I wasn't at all. I never was.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious. I only got mine because actually Garm and
Speaker 1: I just found out from each other that we were
Speaker 1: on the soprano was like, we didn't know that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: By the time I got on this Sprantos, it was
Speaker 1: like a Law and Order but like times a million,
Speaker 1: because it was one of the few shows that shot
Speaker 1: in New York, so everybody was trying to get on it,
Speaker 1: and also it was the biggest show, right. But I
Speaker 1: had one line, and Steve Bushemi was directing the episode,
Speaker 1: and I had to go to Silver Cup Studios and
Speaker 1: go to the callback, and I was so nervous it
Speaker 1: was insane, and I had to I smoke a cigarette
Speaker 1: in the scene. And there I'm AJ's date to a
Speaker 1: family wedding, and a tray of like oysters come around
Speaker 1: and the you know, the wait staff says like, would
Speaker 1: you like one? And I take a look, and I
Speaker 1: inhale from my cigarette and I say, I don't eat fish,
Speaker 1: and then I blow out the tocsins. Right, So it's
Speaker 1: a joke line. But I was so young. I was
Speaker 1: twenty one, it was like twenty two, like one of
Speaker 1: my first jobs, and Bushmi just really didn't want a
Speaker 1: kid coming and who didn't smoke so they were like,
Speaker 1: do you smoke? And I was like yes, And I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure that's the only reason why I but because
Speaker 1: it was a wedding, and the whole episode took place
Speaker 1: in one scene in this wedding, in this wedding venue room,
Speaker 1: and I was AJ's date, and I was sitting at
Speaker 1: the family table. I was in the background in every scene.
Speaker 1: So I shot for three weeks wow at Leonard's in
Speaker 1: Long Island, which is where my cousin Michael got Botts,
Speaker 1: Bob Mitzvod and my whole family came. They let my
Speaker 1: whole family come to set. Really, I hung out with
Speaker 1: you know, Tony Soprano in his trip, like the whole cast.
Speaker 1: They put us up in hotels in Long Island. I
Speaker 1: went out with all of them. It was remarkably fun,
Speaker 1: and I actually became lifelong friends with Jamie Lynn Sigler,
Speaker 1: who played Meadow. It's where we met and we've been
Speaker 1: friends ever since. Yes, she and I are friends, too.
Speaker 1: Surprised we haven't met me too, Brian. I know, it's
Speaker 1: very interesting. Okay, before Scandal, you appeared on two other shows.
Speaker 1: You mentioned it briefly before Gray's Anatomy and Private practice.
Speaker 1: Were you all in on the Shonda land thing before
Speaker 1: scandal or were these just jobs for you? When I
Speaker 1: was like twenty four, I started watching Grey's Anatomy because
Speaker 1: I had a best friend who was on it, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta get on a Shonda Rhime show.
Speaker 1: Like that was like in my head, I was like
Speaker 1: I just related to those women more than other women
Speaker 1: on television shows. They looked like me, They looked like
Speaker 1: normal people. They talked, kind of asked, they were really
Speaker 1: like naturalistic, and like I just felt like, God, if
Speaker 1: I could just get in front of Shanda Rhimes, I
Speaker 1: think she might vibe my vibe, Like I think this
Speaker 1: is a fit. And you know what's crazy? This girl
Speaker 1: I used audition against all the time, Sarah Drew. We
Speaker 1: used to always go head to head on everything. She
Speaker 1: got April on Gray's Anatomy, and I was like, great,
Speaker 1: get this girl out of here, give this girl a job,
Speaker 1: And in my head, I was like, if she likes
Speaker 1: Sarah Drew, she's definitely gonna like me, Like we could
Speaker 1: play sisters. So yeah, I had the Shonda Rhymes bug.
Speaker 1: Gray's Anatomy was a huge hit, and like maybe the Office,
Speaker 1: like there were comedies, but there weren't a lot of
Speaker 1: dramas where the leading ladies weren't like fucking alien gorgeous,
Speaker 1: you know. And I was like, I can't. I knew
Speaker 1: that that wasn't my type, you know, like I just
Speaker 1: wasn't going to be able to do that. And then
Speaker 1: I saw Grays and I you know, saw Sandra Oh
Speaker 1: and Shandraw Wilson and not that they're not fucking gorgeous,
Speaker 1: and Meredith Gray and and they're all fucking gorgeous, but
Speaker 1: they were like also something else going on, and I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, I relate. So yeah, it had been
Speaker 1: in my head. What about you, Gamel, Were you a
Speaker 1: fan of the shows Grey's Anatomy or Private Practice round
Speaker 1: the other? And I do just want to note that,
Speaker 1: you know, for like a decade, Grey's Anatomy aired on
Speaker 1: the opposite of the Office, So I just want to
Speaker 1: know what you were watching on Thursday nights at nine o'clock.
Speaker 1: I was a huge fan of Grey's Anatomy. There you go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but now the Office, like my family, is obsessed with
Speaker 1: the same, the same. They have it on in the background.
Speaker 1: It's one of the greatest shows of all times. Oh, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was a Filya for sure. You were. Yes, Were
Speaker 1: you trying to get in the show? I mean no,
Speaker 1: I mean, look it's sort of are just trying to
Speaker 1: get a job? Yeah exactly. I mean but do you
Speaker 1: remember your experience auditioning? I do. Yeah, it was very
Speaker 1: it was you know, I had one audition I was
Speaker 1: I was very reluctant to audition for the role because
Speaker 1: I didn't understand why they wanted to see me. And
Speaker 1: the character description was, you know, he was a lot
Speaker 1: older and sort of described as a nebbish older guy
Speaker 1: who was obsessed with figurines, and I was like, what
Speaker 1: the hell is going on? Why am I going in
Speaker 1: for this? Was never going to get in And now
Speaker 1: I'm fifty one and I'm like fifties the new twenty
Speaker 1: six like you. But I had that one audition and
Speaker 1: I just went for it. And and yeah, I've tested
Speaker 1: for other shows and it's been the most grueling and
Speaker 1: nerve wracking experience. I'm sure Katie can agree with me. Ever,
Speaker 1: but the fact that Shanda did not put us through
Speaker 1: that fresh hell of testing over and over was so nice.
Speaker 1: We talk to me about this, what are you talking
Speaker 1: about there's no testing. No, I didn't test me either.
Speaker 1: She didn't test anybody. I mean, they're What they did
Speaker 1: was they would make an audition tape in Linda Lowe's
Speaker 1: office and her you know, Linda Lowie cast Grays and
Speaker 1: cast Scandal and cast Private and she would make the
Speaker 1: tape in the office and Shawda would have her pick
Speaker 1: and Linda would have her pick. They would be the
Speaker 1: same person, and they would send it to ABC studio
Speaker 1: and network to be nice for like approval. But like
Speaker 1: they just sent the tape that you made in the room.
Speaker 1: You never had to go to studio or network and
Speaker 1: do the scene again. Yeah, Brian is like, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: And you know why because Linda Lowe is married to
Speaker 1: Jeff Perry, who played Cyrus on Scandal. But Linda loves
Speaker 1: actors and she's just like not going to fucking do that,
Speaker 1: Like that's not her. At a certain point when they could,
Speaker 1: when they got to a place of success that they
Speaker 1: did not have to do that With ABC, they did not,
Speaker 1: and we benefited from it, Yes we did. God, now
Speaker 1: I really want to get into now that is that
Speaker 1: is incredible? That is unbelievable. Yeah, it's it's insane. It's
Speaker 1: really like. I auditioned once in the room, Shanda gave
Speaker 1: me a redirection. I did the scene again. They taped
Speaker 1: both taps, and then two weeks later she called me
Speaker 1: into the office for what I thought was me going
Speaker 1: to audition again, and she was sitting in the room
Speaker 1: and I it was weird, and there was a tape
Speaker 1: going and I was like, Okay, should I start the scene?
Speaker 1: And she was like, oh, no, you don't have to.
Speaker 1: I've already sent the tape that you made two weeks
Speaker 1: ago to studio and network. You've already been approved, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you the part. And they videotaped
Speaker 1: it and I started ugly sobbing beyond fic belief, Brian
Speaker 1: like boogers snot. I mean, I was running from my
Speaker 1: fucking babysitting job from a family who didn't believe in diapers,
Speaker 1: where the baby was just pooping in between my legs
Speaker 1: over a toilet, and I had the sides in my
Speaker 1: bag for another audition the next day. And I remember,
Speaker 1: just like after they told me, and I was hysterical crying.
Speaker 1: My agents didn't even know, nobody knew. Wait, why did
Speaker 1: she call you back? In they wanted a videotape and
Speaker 1: it's on the behind the scenes DVD of season one,
Speaker 1: and I looked like a five year old and I
Speaker 1: had to sit in my car. I remember after I
Speaker 1: was sobbing and I was like, what do I do now?
Speaker 1: And she was like, well, wardrobe is gonna call you
Speaker 1: and there's gonna be a table read. And I was like,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a table and then she was like
Speaker 1: and I said, this is the best day of my life.
Speaker 1: And she was like, but you just got engaged. I
Speaker 1: was like, this is way better. My Asian was a
Speaker 1: horrible at a padic attack. I'm so scared to get married,
Speaker 1: but I've been fighting for this my whole life, like god,
Speaker 1: and even then, you know, like I think what was
Speaker 1: so I'm sure I've been. It was probably similar with
Speaker 1: the office actually, like we were never like, oh yeah
Speaker 1: we're getting picked up again, Yeah we're a hit show.
Speaker 1: Like we were all so fucking tired and grateful to
Speaker 1: have a job and never ever took for granted, like
Speaker 1: we were a shoe in so and she had something
Speaker 1: she's caught on our podcast and said, you know, she
Speaker 1: had a no asshole. She called our previous couple bosses
Speaker 1: to vouch for us and our behavior and our personalities.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she was pretty serious about putting together a
Speaker 1: group of like nice people. Well, based on what I've
Speaker 1: heard from Bellamy, everyone was they were It's really gross.
Speaker 1: It's just gross. Like the press used to come up
Speaker 1: to us and be at events and be like, do
Speaker 1: you guys hang out with anybody else? Because we would
Speaker 1: just sort of be with each other together after like
Speaker 1: eight years, and they'd be like, but can you guys
Speaker 1: go talk to me? Like no, we only just like
Speaker 1: love each other. It was pretty magical from the audition
Speaker 1: all the way through. That's so crazy, Like the shoe,
Speaker 1: the other shoe never dropped where it was like and
Speaker 1: that's when everything went south. Nope. Right. One of the
Speaker 1: things that Bellamy said to me was that the cast
Speaker 1: up scandal was like a bunch of theater kids totally.
Speaker 1: I also think theater people for you, I think too
Speaker 1: like I think theater people have this sense of the ensemble,
Speaker 1: like it's something bigger than your own singular performance, which
Speaker 1: I think is such a healthy way to for a
Speaker 1: long running television show. It makes it so that yes,
Speaker 1: I mean Kerrie Washington was obviously the star of Scandal,
Speaker 1: But like, storylines move around so much when you've been
Speaker 1: on the show, and I think so much of like
Speaker 1: theater background is like this is an ensemble. This is
Speaker 1: like their storyline this week and my storyline next year,
Speaker 1: and like, you know, just really understanding that you're part
Speaker 1: of a much bigger thing. Was there any conscious conversation
Speaker 1: about differentiating it from other shows about politics that had
Speaker 1: existed before, I mean, like West Wing or something. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean Sanda was obsessed with she was a huge
Speaker 1: West Wing fan, Okay, And I remember when Molina walked
Speaker 1: on to set, Josh Mlene. It was the only time
Speaker 1: I've seen her star struck in the last fifteen years. God,
Speaker 1: it was so crazy to be on a political show then,
Speaker 1: wasn't it. Gee? God? Yeah, yeah, yeah, But I don't
Speaker 1: even I don't even remember any other I didn't watch
Speaker 1: West Wing, but I don't even remember any other What
Speaker 1: were the other political shows that were Were there even
Speaker 1: any others on at the time? Well, no, I mean
Speaker 1: Veep came on, yeah, and we all ended at the
Speaker 1: same time. I remember reading some article in the New
Speaker 1: York Times maybe or the LA Times where like as
Speaker 1: soon as Trump got elected, VEEP ended and Shanda chose
Speaker 1: to end Scandal because she was like, I'm doing a
Speaker 1: terrible job quoting this. But she said something like, it's
Speaker 1: one thing to write a political show when all the
Speaker 1: lights are on in Washington, but when all the lights
Speaker 1: are off in DC and we don't know what the
Speaker 1: fuck is going on anymore, I can't write anything. I
Speaker 1: can't do this world anymore. It was one of the
Speaker 1: reasons she like, I mean, she always knew that Scandal
Speaker 1: would have a beginning, middle, and end, but I know
Speaker 1: that that did not help things at all. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was crazy. I remember the cast always being dropped into
Speaker 1: DC for the White House Correspondent dinner, and it was insane.
Speaker 1: We all got to meet Barack Obama and Michelle Obama
Speaker 1: and Michelle Obamas all telling us so she watched Scandal
Speaker 1: all day and it's her like thing to do on weekends,
Speaker 1: And I just about died on the floor, Like I
Speaker 1: just was like, this is insane. Yeah, yeah, your characters,
Speaker 1: you guys had a little romance at one point. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: a very a very dark, dysfunctional, chaotic romance. I'm air
Speaker 1: quoting if you would even call it a romance. I
Speaker 1: think it was more of a I don't know, like
Speaker 1: a crazy sort of connection that they had, and they
Speaker 1: just lusted average after each other and we played like
Speaker 1: crazy motherfucker's Like, so Garbo plays a spy, torturer, killer,
Speaker 1: but he takes me under his wing and I get
Speaker 1: really good also, and then we bone town USA for
Speaker 1: like a bunch while. But it's like I was so delicate.
Speaker 1: I was being delicate for a purpose so insane, and
Speaker 1: now was that filming together? It was that fun. Hell,
Speaker 1: it was fun. I say that about nobody else. By
Speaker 1: the way, the times on the show that I got
Speaker 1: to torture people or have crazy like on camera sex
Speaker 1: with Quinn were the most fun ever. You know, it
Speaker 1: was real. Debbie Allen directed the first episode where we
Speaker 1: had to like I smack your face, then you grab
Speaker 1: my cheeks so that I can't speak. You're like hurting
Speaker 1: my face and oh I smacked him so hard his
Speaker 1: ears was ringing, it wasing for like half an hour.
Speaker 1: I've talked about this on other shows, but I was like, Katie,
Speaker 1: smack me for real, like do it for real, for real?
Speaker 1: And then I was like, what did you say? Debbie
Speaker 1: like I couldn't he. I was like, we had been
Speaker 1: friends for three years already and done three seasons when
Speaker 1: our characters took a turn to get together or so,
Speaker 1: we had a lot of actually like actory conversations where
Speaker 1: we were like, we got to use a lot of tongue,
Speaker 1: like these two are not this classic movie star TV
Speaker 1: kissing bullshit where it's just a lot of lip. Like
Speaker 1: we're fans of that, like we love watching Carrie and
Speaker 1: Fits and Olivia do that. But for Quinn and Hawk,
Speaker 1: they beat to a different drum. They're super weird, super
Speaker 1: kinked out. They torture people for fun. So we were
Speaker 1: like these to feel authentic to them, we have to
Speaker 1: be weird. Yeah, And thank god we were so close
Speaker 1: and we felt really safe and like able to go
Speaker 1: there because I actually think it would have been really
Speaker 1: weird had Quinn and Hawk just sort of done like
Speaker 1: a PG thirteen sort of vibe like they were weird. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also feel like I don't know if I would
Speaker 1: have been able to if we would have been able
Speaker 1: to do this, if it wasn't you and I. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to think if I had a different actor that
Speaker 1: I was working with, I was playing Quinn. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I would have felt so comfortable or to
Speaker 1: be like, hey, Katie, like, let's at some point I
Speaker 1: didn't even ask you, but I did. I spit on you.
Speaker 1: But then afterwards I was like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry. You were like I don't care. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: we had already had the conversation like you could do anything,
Speaker 1: like we were so game. We just felt very safe.
Speaker 1: And did you have a safe word? No? No? What? Um?
Speaker 1: So wait, did you take it further than the writers
Speaker 1: had intended? Yeah? I think so. I think so too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but they wrote weird shit, so like we had already
Speaker 1: licked each other's faces, he had pulled my teeth out
Speaker 1: with fires that had already been in the script. So
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, maybe they didn't write spit or slap
Speaker 1: or right that kind of thing, but we had already
Speaker 1: gone to some really freaking weird, dark places. But I
Speaker 1: do think we took it further than what they wrote. Yeah,
Speaker 1: seven years together. Very difficult to say goodbye? How was
Speaker 1: it for you all? I feel like it was difficult
Speaker 1: to say goodbye to the show, but it wasn't difficult
Speaker 1: to say goodbye to the I mean it was difficult,
Speaker 1: but I felt like they're going to be in my
Speaker 1: life forever, So that didn't feel like I was like
Speaker 1: there was I was experiencing a loss as far as
Speaker 1: the actors, but the show was. I mourned. I mean,
Speaker 1: playing Huck for a long time, I'm still mourning it.
Speaker 1: He's the greatest character of all time. You know, we
Speaker 1: were really lucky. Shanda had told us a year before
Speaker 1: that it was ending, so we had a lot of goodbyes,
Speaker 1: We had a lot of last things. I feel like
Speaker 1: I actually was kind of relieved, Like as weird as
Speaker 1: that is, I just felt like we did it. Like
Speaker 1: we did it well. We did the goodbyes, well, we
Speaker 1: played our parts well, no one everyone left on amazing terms.
Speaker 1: Like I just was so proud of us that we
Speaker 1: all like laid our heads on the pillow at the
Speaker 1: rap being like we fucking did that show. I was
Speaker 1: like so proud. And not to say that it would
Speaker 1: have taken a turn, you know, I think we could
Speaker 1: have done it for a million more years, but we
Speaker 1: really finished on a high, and that's what Shanda wanted.
Speaker 1: And I do think it would have been different to
Speaker 1: be on a political show under a different presidency. I do, like,
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we were sort of in this
Speaker 1: wonderful bubble of like Obama and the world looked different
Speaker 1: and it was pre pandemic, and so I'm sort of
Speaker 1: glad it ended where it did and they gave us
Speaker 1: so many chances to say goodbye. Yeah. We're watching episodes
Speaker 1: now of the show and Katie and I are like, um,
Speaker 1: it's so much crazier in real life than we were
Speaker 1: ever on the show politically wise. That you're right. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it would have if it would have
Speaker 1: even you know, resonated with people, it would have been
Speaker 1: like vanilla. Yeah, I mean all the crazy stuff that's
Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think we got out with our heads held high
Speaker 1: and we could be grateful for that. You have a
Speaker 1: new podcast, Unpacking Toolbox. Yeah, about scandal? What what made
Speaker 1: you want to dive back into it? Into office ladies? Okay?
Speaker 1: And I was listening to all these other rewatch podcasts
Speaker 1: and I was like, Yo, someone is definitely going to
Speaker 1: jump on this scandal thing, and it should definitely be
Speaker 1: me and Guermo. I had already had a podcast for
Speaker 1: five years called Katie's Crib that's also produced by Shonda
Speaker 1: Land Audio, and it's a parenting podcast and it was
Speaker 1: the first one they had underneath Shonda Land's audio department.
Speaker 1: So I just called them and I was like, do
Speaker 1: you think you could do a scandal? Rewatch? I feel
Speaker 1: like we have one hundred and twenty four episodes. The
Speaker 1: Gladiators have been bored out of their minds with no
Speaker 1: content for years since we went off the air. Garmo
Speaker 1: and I love to hang out anyway, and we're funny
Speaker 1: and cute even though you don't see us. Our voices
Speaker 1: are delicious. Let's do this. I pitched it before I
Speaker 1: even had like a yes from I didn't even tell Garma.
Speaker 1: You knew I was gonna be like, hell, yeah, I hope. So.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's the busiest actor and he's very very
Speaker 1: in demand and everybody wants him. But I was like, dude,
Speaker 1: you could just stay at home, so in yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I know you're not on Twitter that much anymore, Katie,
Speaker 1: but I still am. And the amount of people that
Speaker 1: are listening to the podcast and are flipping out over
Speaker 1: it and are still excited about it, and have started
Speaker 1: to rewatch Scandal on my heart is remarkable. The other thing, Brian,
Speaker 1: like the Office that everyone's like watching it now and
Speaker 1: you're probably getting like Gray's Anatomy has all these new
Speaker 1: teenagers that are literally starting grays Anomy from the beginning.
Speaker 1: The Office is having the same thing. And Scandal I
Speaker 1: didn't know until us rewatching it one hundred percent holds
Speaker 1: up yes and works and his wonderful ride of TV
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, it's on Hulu. You guys can
Speaker 1: stream this, like I'm watching all the other hot shows
Speaker 1: that are nominated for every fucking Emmy under the sun,
Speaker 1: and like skin Fills a great show. Yeah, is it
Speaker 1: fun to go back and rewatch? Do you remember it?
Speaker 1: It was? It was a scary at first to think
Speaker 1: about having to go and start to watch all these episodes,
Speaker 1: But now so much time has passed, I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm watching someone else, and that's really really nice, do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: a true Scandal fan now a gladiator and I'm able
Speaker 1: to just enjoy it, you know, without any of my
Speaker 1: critical brain jumping in and being like why did you
Speaker 1: do that like that? Or why did you say that
Speaker 1: line like that, I'm I'm just sitting back and enjoying it.
Speaker 1: And it's so freaking good and I'm so good, You're
Speaker 1: so good. It's also the perfect amount of time, Like
Speaker 1: I think it's been ten years since the first season,
Speaker 1: so we're I'm I don't remember, I'm like, who is that?
Speaker 1: Like this is so long ago. And like you said,
Speaker 1: I don't really remember a lot of the scenes that
Speaker 1: I shot, but I do remember the behind the scene stuff,
Speaker 1: right vary, Yes, yes, yeah, same, that's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're awesome, Brian, You're awesome, Brian, stop it keep going. Um.
Speaker 1: As Katie mentioned Gammo, you're the busiest man in television recently.
Speaker 1: Law and Order Organized Crime? How was that? It was?
Speaker 1: It was? It was trippy, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: it's a universe that I always feel comfortable in when
Speaker 1: they invite me back. And it was a blast, and
Speaker 1: and you know, and and in this Law and Order
Speaker 1: Organized Crime, I was not playing a criminal. I was playing, yes,
Speaker 1: a detective look at you, which which baby's grown up.
Speaker 1: Oh but he was still he was still a crooked Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: And I got to, you know, to act with chrism
Speaker 1: Tony and uh Mauritia Hargete and Iced Tea because there
Speaker 1: was a lot of crossover with Lawn Order SVU, so
Speaker 1: it was it was really really fun. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if I'm going back. I was recurring on the show.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm going back. But Life of
Speaker 1: an Actor, folks, Life of an Actor. Yeah, and Katie,
Speaker 1: you of course were in the most talked about show
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty two in inventing Anna john Land. Thanks
Speaker 1: for having me to the universe. Were you surprised by
Speaker 1: all of the discussion of that. It's so bizarre to me.
Speaker 1: People are like the most obsessed with that story of
Speaker 1: all time. I truly was not, And I've talked about
Speaker 1: this with Shawn, like she's obsessed with the story and
Speaker 1: people are obsessed with Anna Delbie. I'm like, this bitch
Speaker 1: is a psycho and a sociopath and not kind and
Speaker 1: broke laws and like get her out of here, Like
Speaker 1: I don't understand, but I get I don't know. People
Speaker 1: are I mean, people talk to me every day. I
Speaker 1: get a text about like did you hear what's happening
Speaker 1: with Anna Delvi? Like she's doing this now? I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't care. Gave her a goddamn show she got
Speaker 1: they gave her. Yeah, she's a criminal. I don't I
Speaker 1: never was like that. O'b says it. Look, I was
Speaker 1: so thrilled to be part of the story, and I'm
Speaker 1: so glad the show was wildly successful. And Julia Garner,
Speaker 1: I would act with her if she was reading the
Speaker 1: phone book. She's so genius. And Laverne Cox and Anna
Speaker 1: Clumsky and I mean, the cast was ridiculous, and of
Speaker 1: course Shawna. The writing was wonderful and I got to
Speaker 1: play a part that was so difficult, and I got
Speaker 1: to go to Morocco for a month and stay in
Speaker 1: the hotel where my character was conned, and I took
Speaker 1: my whole family and it was the shit. That's awesome.
Speaker 1: But I feel like that was my swan song playing
Speaker 1: a twenty seven year old like I forty me too,
Speaker 1: Like I can't like whoa. It's so fascinating though, because
Speaker 1: there were a couple of years ago it was the
Speaker 1: murder Duck serious stuff. You know, there was some you know,
Speaker 1: murderer in the Wisconsin town. I think it was called
Speaker 1: like that was the thing. And then last year. It
Speaker 1: was like all of the con things and I have
Speaker 1: to say, I'm drop out, the uber Vanting, the tender Swindler,
Speaker 1: all of these stories about these people who are just
Speaker 1: horribly deceptive people doing terrible things to people. And I'm
Speaker 1: a little bit like you where I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: understand why we just don't take these people and lock
Speaker 1: them away. I don't either. I yeah, I was. It
Speaker 1: was never a big thing for me, but that was
Speaker 1: like for the job. Well, it was a great show
Speaker 1: with a great performance by you. And uh, I had
Speaker 1: to cry a lot. You had to cry a lot
Speaker 1: a lot, but you got the stick. So you did
Speaker 1: You didn't You didn't. I have like an hour's worth.
Speaker 1: It takes in me with that one. If that and
Speaker 1: then I'm like ted, Yeah, you guys are awesome. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for taking the time to hang out
Speaker 1: with me Unpacking the Toolbox. If you're a Scandal fan,
Speaker 1: or even if you're not totally right now, check out
Speaker 1: the podcast because that will enable you to definitely check
Speaker 1: out Scandal. You guys, thank you so much, Come back anytime.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Brian, Bye everybody. Katie Giermo, you guys are
Speaker 1: the best. Thank you so much, good luck on the
Speaker 1: podcast Unpacking the Toolbox, and thank you so much for
Speaker 1: joining me and telling me juiciest scandal ever, because that
Speaker 1: is definitely it just happened. Listeners make sure to tune
Speaker 1: in to their podcast and come back here next week
Speaker 1: for more stories Off the Beat. It can't come soon enough,
Speaker 1: and have a great week everyone. Off the Beat is
Speaker 1: hosted an executive produced by me Bryan Baumgartner, alongside our
Speaker 1: executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our
Speaker 1: producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our
Speaker 1: talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is
Speaker 1: Sammy Katz. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
Speaker 1: the one and only Creed Bratton