1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: How was that filming together? It was that fun as hell. 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: It was so much fun. I say that about nobody else. 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 1: By the way, the times on the show that I 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: got to torture people or have crazy like on camera 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: sex with Quinn were the most fun ever. You know 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: what it means real. Debbie Allen directed the first episode 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: where we had to I smack your face, then you 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: grab my cheeks so that I can't speak. You're like 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: hurting my face and oh I smacked him so hard 10 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: his ears was ringing. It was all my earing for 11 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: like half an hour. I've talked about this on other shows, 12 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: but I was like, Katie, smack me for real, like 13 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 1: do it for real, for real? And then I was like, 14 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: what did you say, Debbie? Like I couldn't hear. Hi. 15 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: My name is Katie Lows and I really liked this podcast. 16 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: Hi guys, my name is Giermo Diaz and I just 17 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: watched a rat run across my backyard twice. Well, hello everyone, 18 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: and welcome back here to Off the Beat. I am 19 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: your host, Brian Baumgartner, and today is a very special 20 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: day because today we have not one, but two exciting guests. 21 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: That's right, it's a threesome Katie Lowe's and Guillermo Diaz. Now. 22 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: I met Katie and Guermo for the first time today, 23 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: but they met a decade ago on the set of Scandal, 24 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: one of the most popular shows well, certainly in the 25 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: last decade, and for good reason. It has politics, it 26 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: has drama, but most of all, it has Katie and Guermo. 27 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: Now they're actually starting their own Scandal podcast called Unpacking 28 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: the Toolbox. I've heard the trailer and it is fantastic. 29 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: Lots of scandal, but that's expected. They're here today to 30 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: talk about their early days as actors struggling in New York, 31 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: their time on Scandal, what it means to be a 32 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: part of the Shondaland universe, and both of their most 33 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: recent shows, Law and Order Organized Crime for Guillermo and 34 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: the most talked about show of the last year, Inventing 35 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: Anna for Katie. They're delightful together. I didn't even need 36 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: to be here, but guess what I was. So here 37 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: they are Katie Lowe's and Guillermo Diaz. Bubbalue, I love it, 38 00:02:55,560 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: Bubble Bubble and squee Cook get every more from the nut. Hi, guys, 39 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: how are you good? How are you. I'm good. I mean, 40 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: you know I'm lurking in the background, so I hear. 41 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: I mean, we should keep the conversation going. Arm You're 42 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: going to Vegas this weekend. That's fantastic. I am No, 43 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: You're not like a Vegas dude to me, but like maybe, 44 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: And I'm always learning new things from this friendship. Yeah. 45 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: I love Vegas. I really love it. I mean I 46 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: can't go for more than like two days, you know 47 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: what I mean. But I'm excited. We're gonna see the 48 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson show out there. Oh it's so good. I 49 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: saw it. I did. Oh nice. Yeah, I'm super excited 50 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: about that. Saw it. And you know what's so funny? 51 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: Did you guys watch the Chris Rock special? Yes? I 52 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: haven't seen it, but I've heard about it. Yes. It 53 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: got me thinking because he was saying how like people 54 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: are selectively outraged out or outrage and He's like, why 55 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: are we allowed to watch Michael listen to Michael Jackson 56 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: but we're not allowed to listen to R Kelly? Do 57 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like, anyway, whatever you feel 58 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: about that, I'm not trying to be provocative right now, 59 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: but I'm like, I'm trying to ask You're trying to 60 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: be provocative, but ask that question in myself because I've 61 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: seen the Michael Jackson Show and I love Michael Jackson music, 62 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: and then I and I know what he's done, and 63 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: then I would never see a musical about R Kelly. No. 64 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: So I just, yeah, I don't know what's happening in 65 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: my brain. Yeah, it's crazy that he presented that. And 66 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: then it makes you, it really makes you think, yeah, yeah, 67 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: and like everybody's different what they feel, because I have 68 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: friends who are like, we'll walk off a dancelor of 69 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson comes on really one hundred percent, like they 70 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: are like, absolutely not. I don't endorse support any of 71 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: this music. This person was incredibly sick and and just 72 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: broke laws and hurt people and children, and so I'm 73 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: out and I'm like, fuck, I'm a bad person. I'm 74 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: just like doing the moonwalk like my best impression in 75 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: the I mean, Gammo, this sounds like kind of an 76 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: indictment of you. How are you feeling right now about 77 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: to go to Vegas and watch the show. Oh my god, 78 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: that's right? What the fuck? Man? Well, I've seen it 79 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: and was just saying I was endorsing it because I 80 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: loved it amazing. Um, you guys, I mean I have 81 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: to start with what is secretly wrong with Bellamy Young. 82 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: I just had the opportunity to work with her. She 83 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: seems way too kind a person. There must be something 84 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: work with her on. We're working on a new show, 85 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: The Other Black Girl for Hulu. Yes, I find her 86 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: way too delightful, So there must be something wrong with her, 87 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: there is it? There is your hate a vegan unless 88 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: you hate vegans or you hate animal lovers. Those would 89 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: be the only things to check. She loves animals and 90 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: she doesn't eat them. Okay. Other than that, she's pretty 91 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: gloriously perfect. Yeah, but you're you're feeling, you're thinking is 92 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: correct because when I first met her, I thought the 93 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: same too. I was like, this is a way too 94 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: like is this real? And then you come to find 95 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: out years later that she's that exact same person every 96 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: single day with you, and she's just she has the 97 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: biggest heart and the most loving kind person. I know 98 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: she really is, but she is. She's pretty fantastic. She's 99 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: pretty fantastic. She's exceptional. Also, it's like disarming, like I 100 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: don't know where you're from. Originally Brian, but I don't know, 101 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: like a lot of like Southern bells, like say she's 102 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: belly but okay, so she's like I was like, the 103 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: what the hell is this? Like I'm from New York. 104 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: I've never met women that are like that, Like like 105 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: she's very Oh god, Josh Milenet used to drive him 106 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: so crazy on Scandal because she's a big hugger and 107 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: kiss her and very warm. But she also she's just 108 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: the person on our WhatsApp like Scandal change. She knows 109 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: everybody's birthday, everybody's anniversary, and it is like so conscious 110 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: about that. It's like pretty remarkable. Is that a Southern 111 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: thing you're from there, Brian? Is that a Southern woman thing? Um? 112 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: I mean my mom does that, so I guess yes, yeah. 113 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: I mean it's blue Mountain cards generally, blue Mountain messages. 114 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: Generally it's those from my aunt Maureen. What are those? 115 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: That's a blue Mountain message? I don't know what that is. 116 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: It's a it's basically I mean, it's still a kind gesture, 117 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: which I guess. I guess it's more effort than just 118 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: a text, if that's what Bellamy does. But it is 119 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: a virtual card that you open usually has some sort 120 00:07:54,920 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: of dancing flower flower yes, and it says like wishing 121 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: you a great day. It's like an e card. But 122 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: the company is called Blue Mountain, and I that is 123 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: classic in my family as well. Yes, all right, I 124 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: want to go back to your childhood. I want to 125 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: go back to your time growing up, both of you, 126 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: each of you. When did you start becoming interested in 127 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: the arts? Are acting? Gee, Guillermo? For me, it happened 128 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: when I was in high school. I was a sophomore 129 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: in high school and I did a talent show where 130 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: we did a medley of songs by the Beastie Boys 131 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: and I played Mike d And it was the first 132 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: time I was on stage, and I just fell in 133 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: love with performing, and I thought, this is what I 134 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: want to do. And then from that point on, I 135 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: just really really focused on pursuing it. I bought Backstage. 136 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: There used to be a newspaper called Backstage, and you know, 137 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: you circle the auditions and open calls and all that stuff. 138 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: I did a ton of extra work and background work 139 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: and do it in films, and I just I really 140 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: just wanted to act, and I pounded the pavement and 141 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: I just I you know, and I just kept going. 142 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: So that's that's how it started for me. But let 143 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: me ask you this, so you can You're on a 144 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 1: talent show stage as the Beastie Boys, Like, what was 145 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: the impetus behind wanting to do that? Or? Right? You 146 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: just kind of conned by your friends into doing this somewhat. 147 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: I didn't even I didn't even want to be in 148 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: the Talent show. But one of the guys dropped out 149 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: that was playing Mike d and my friends were like, Garamo, 150 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: you please just do this for us, do as this 151 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: solid And I was like, all right, And that's sort 152 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: of how it happened. So I wasn't even looking for it. 153 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: I wasn't even thinking about, you know, wanting to do 154 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: the Talent show. It just sort of fell in my lap. 155 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: And then it was it was a you know, really 156 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: exciting surprise that I that I loved it so much? 157 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: Did you kill? It? Was the audience, like in the pod, 158 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 1: I have it, I have it, it's recorded, like I 159 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: have it, I have it on tape. Yeah it's on 160 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: a VHS. Yeah, well but you haven't changed it over yet. Yeah, 161 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: you got to change it over. You haven't to an 162 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: electronic file. Let me tell you something, Gearmo, Oh my god, 163 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: you can't. This is not going to survive. If you've 164 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: moved from it might be messed up to New York compartment. 165 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: This is gonna get you know, damaged in some way. 166 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: I know, I know, I really, I'm going to transfer 167 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: it over. There's there's a photo on my Instagram of 168 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: us three dressed like the Beastie Boys from that night. 169 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: If you scroll through on my Instagram, there's a photo 170 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: your life and then and then years later. Fun fact, 171 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: years later, I did a movie called Half Baked and 172 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: Tamer Davis directed it, and she I couldn't believe that 173 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 1: she was married to Mike d And I got to 174 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: tell this story to Mike d into, Tama Davis and too, 175 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle, and that's amazing. Yeah, you have said in 176 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: the past that hiding the fact that you were gay 177 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: growing up gave you a crash course in acting. Can 178 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: you can you talk to me a little bit about 179 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: that or why you feel that way it did? Man? 180 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: You know, when you're when you're growing up in in 181 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: in New York City and Washington Heights in the eighties, 182 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: you know, we I did a lot of lying a 183 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 1: lot of lying, a lot of hiding, a lot of 184 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, just suppressing all all things gay that I 185 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: knew I was, and and it really does it makes 186 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: you It made me a really good actor because I, 187 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: you know, I just sort of, you know, rolled along 188 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: throughout my world acting like I wasn't gay, and it 189 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: just sort of helped my acting. And it's sort of 190 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: a messed up thing to think about, you know what 191 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 1: I mean, because I was I was hurting inside in 192 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: the fact that I was hiding and lying to my parents, 193 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: to friends like that was all really sad to me, 194 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: but it was it was a performance I had to 195 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: keep keep doing and keep up if I wanted to 196 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 1: sort of you know, survive for lack of a better word, 197 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: and you know where I grew up, you know. I 198 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: also think it sort of relates so much to like 199 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: Gammo's had the most incredible run of playing so many 200 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: different types of parts. But you've played a lot of 201 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: like super tough, fucked up, like jail con you know, 202 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: drug dealers, all this stuff, And I feel like it's 203 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: so authentic because it's probably taps into you covering growing 204 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 1: up in like a tougher neighborhood, and you know, pretending 205 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: to be like a really tough kind of exterior person. Absolutely. Yeah, 206 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: And you've played gay characters in your in your career also. 207 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: But but I just think you're you're really good with 208 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: a gun. You've done so much gun work. You've done 209 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: so much, so much work. Can somebody pull that for 210 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: the tape? Can somebody pull that for the tape? You've 211 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: done a lot of gun gun work. Yeah, that's that's yeah. Um. 212 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: But you've also every time you're in like a jail suit, like, 213 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: haven't you been? Because I've been convent a few times 214 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: and you're like, this is my fifties. Yeah a million times. Yes, 215 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: I've done law and order like five six times, and 216 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: you know, five out of the six I've been a 217 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: convict in a in an orange jumpsuit. We neither murdered 218 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: someone or raped someone or yeah me pedophile, Brian. Our 219 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: right is our rite of passage is doing law and 220 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: order if you're especially in New York, right, that is 221 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: a rite of path. Yeah, it really is. Uh, Katie, 222 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: what about you? When did you start thinking this was 223 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: your path? Oh? My god, damn it. I got the 224 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: bug like very early. I just always was one of 225 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: those you could probably tell annoying little girls who was 226 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: just looking for attention and applause, and my parents probably 227 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: messed up the other direction, telling me that I was 228 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: special too often. But in all honest you, my mom 229 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: like always danced as her like workout, like I grew 230 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: up in Queens and my mom was a mover, like 231 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: she just she's a yoga teacher now, but she just 232 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: was always a mover. So we were always in like 233 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: mommy daughter dance class on Thursdays at like five, and 234 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: I just remember being in little like recitals when I 235 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: was three, four, five, six, seven, And you know, then 236 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: in fourth grade, I got Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz. 237 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: Like it just was never I never questioned. When I 238 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: was twelve. I grew up right outside the city and 239 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: I remember screaming, crying, begging my dad for an agent. 240 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: He was like ab so that, like he was like 241 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: absolutely not. If you want to do the school plays 242 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: and you know, community theater and you want to go 243 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: to dance class, I will support that wholeheartedly. And even 244 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: if you decide to major in it and go to 245 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: school for it, I will also support that, which at 246 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: the time I didn't realize what a gift. That was 247 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: until I ended up going to school and realized how 248 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: many kids. Parents were like, there's no way. But by 249 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: the way, now that I have kids, I'm like they 250 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: weren't wrong, but anyway, But but my dad was like, 251 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: there's no way you're doing anything professional until you decide 252 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: as an adult that that's the path you want to follow. 253 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: But like, you're going to be a regular kid. And 254 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: so I did every little role from chorus to this that, 255 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: and then when I started doing it professionally, I was like, 256 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: oh my god, this sucks. This is so hard. Like 257 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: I didn't realize like I had always been such the 258 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: goody two shoe people. Please are like the best in 259 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: my class. Get the monologue, this, that and the other thing. 260 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: And then it was like record scratch stop. At like 261 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: twenty one, it was like, you're never working. You're going 262 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: to be a waitress for a decade. You are going 263 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: to fucking fight for this tooth and nail, and you 264 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: will work harder than you've ever worked for this dream 265 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: that a lot of other people have. And it took 266 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: ten years before and also probably fifteen auditions in front 267 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: of Seanna Rhymes. Although she'll say to you I Katie 268 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: just came in. No, no, no, that was like my 269 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: I had been on private Practice, I had been on Grays, 270 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: I had done all of it. I had tested for 271 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: her previous shows. But Scandal was really the thing where 272 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, I can stop my side hustle. 273 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: I don't have to nanny, I don't have to be 274 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: a personal assistant. I don't have to be a fucking 275 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: caterer all of these things right. Meanwhile, my parents were 276 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: just always very supportive but felt, I think, really nervous, 277 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: Like I remember being twenty eight and like fighting for 278 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: health insurance and you know, driving my rent a wreck 279 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: around in Los Angeles looking at my Thomas guide of 280 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: how to get to my third rejection of the day, 281 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: and my parents were like, I don't know how long 282 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: this is going to go. And to be honest, I 283 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: don't know if I got I respect so many I 284 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: have wonderfully talented friends in their forties and fifties who 285 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: are still fighting that fight, and I don't know if 286 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: I would have had it in me. I don't know. 287 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: I'd like to think so like I'm an artist and 288 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: an actor through and through, but man, that sucked. Yeah, 289 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: it's tough. It's really tough. But in terms of your path, 290 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: you decided to go to TISH. I assume that's what 291 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: you're referring to and your parents supporting you, Yeah, through Tish. 292 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: Don't believe that were you process based at that point 293 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: or were you or was it about the business? I 294 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: was not about the business at all. I was the 295 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 1: weird experimental theater wing like rolling around on the floor 296 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 1: working with like thinking I was making the greatest art 297 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: that's ever been created in the Tri State area. Like 298 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: everybody got body lice. It was awesome. Like we were 299 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: writing our names and permanent markers, holding umbrellas naked. It 300 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: was so crazy. Tish was so expensive and the best 301 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: thing they ever gave. They would be like, here's fifty bucks, 302 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: Like go make a play, Like you're lucky that we 303 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: gave you a little black box theater with forty seats, 304 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: and god did we make the most of it. I thought. 305 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: But my parents, who always loved that I did musicals, 306 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: they came to one of my first Tish plays where 307 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 1: I took my top off and someone had to masturbate 308 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: in the play, and I remember my parents sitting in 309 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: the front row being like, oh, my god, and it's 310 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: a great play. It's bay Rout like Mercytoma did it 311 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 1: off Broadway, like it's super legit, Like I'm not like 312 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: it was a fucking it's a great play. But they're like, 313 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: this is not Hello Dolly, what happened to Guys and 314 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: Dolls or Carousel or like Pirates and Pansans? And I 315 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: was like, um, mom, I am an artist. Now I 316 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: am a drama nature, this is drama. My boobs are 317 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: going to be out. Thank god the iPhone didn't exist then, 318 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: you know, thank god, thank god. I was just naked 319 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: all the time, all up on that stage, just naked naked. 320 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: Did you, guys, do you feel like growing up in 321 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 1: New York influenced you and your esthetic, your career paths, 322 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: your desire to create naked art. I think I think 323 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: growing up in New York certainly gave me an edge 324 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 1: that I, um, you know, at the time. I don't 325 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,719 Speaker 1: know if I appreciated it as much at the time 326 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: as I do now. But similar to Katie, I joined 327 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: a theater company called Labyrinth. We did the same sort 328 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: of thing we would, you know, we had a sort 329 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: of a rundown space on fifty third Street between like 330 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: tenth and eleventh Avenue, and we would go backstage where 331 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: there were bags of old masks and costumes and we 332 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: would dress up and do kabuki makeup and then get 333 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: on the stage and perform and move however we wanted 334 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: to move. And and a lot of those artists are 335 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: like Daphne Rubin, Vega, David Zaya's, Philip symour Hoffman, John like, 336 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: it was all Stephen Dlee Gergiz who who is an 337 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: amazing playwright. And so this was the group of people 338 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: that I was rolling around just like U Katie on 339 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: this like you know, old like dusty stage. But it 340 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: and again we were we were in in New York 341 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: City in the early nineties doing this. So it was 342 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: you know, I remember going to the theater and being like, okay, 343 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: I hope I don't get mugged. I had to walk 344 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: really fast and I have to, you know, keep my 345 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: head down. And it was it was it was a 346 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: journey to the theater hoping you weren't going to get 347 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: jumped by someone at at nine point, which happened a 348 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: lot in New York. But but again that gave I 349 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: think that gave me a certain and all of us 350 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: in that group gave us a certain edge which I 351 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: love so much, and I move through, you know, the 352 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: rest of my career even now. I moved around in 353 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: the world with that inside me, and I love that. 354 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: When you get out of school and you start auditioning 355 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,959 Speaker 1: for things, Guillermo for you struggles early on? Did you 356 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: find it? Um, Yes, you're not my God. Absolutely, it 357 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: was a you know, I mean, talking about it now, 358 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: it sounds like it was something that happened very quickly. 359 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: It took I think it took even longer than ten years. 360 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: For me. It was it was constantly pounding the pavement 361 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: and you know, dealing with rejection and again, like I 362 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: said earlier, doing I did a ton of extra work. 363 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: I was doing extra work on student films. That's how 364 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 1: fucking films on podcast did we curse? But yeah, that's 365 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,719 Speaker 1: how That's how like down low I was. But you know, 366 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: with all that set, I loved it. I still loved it. 367 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: It was still so much fun and exciting and exhilarating 368 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: to be in front of the camera whenever I was 369 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: or on stage. But yeah, it was a constant, constant, 370 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: constant struggle. Even I mean, Katie, I think I'll agree 371 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: with me. Like even now, it's a constant struggle. Now 372 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: had three huge rejections last week. Oh god, I'm got it. 373 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 1: My god, I'm still doing this like yeah, I mean 374 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 1: just dragged over the coals for like a while just 375 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: to get like a big fat no at the end 376 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,719 Speaker 1: of it all. It's like, oh my god, but you 377 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: know what I just I think you have to be 378 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: like I don't know. I don't want to say stupid, 379 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: that's not right. But there's some like faith, hope, naivete, 380 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: whatever it is to think that like this day is 381 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: going to be different, or this opportunity is going to 382 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: be different. It's different. Now, Yes, I think you're right, 383 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:40,959 Speaker 1: Like there has to be something where it's like I 384 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: think someone might give me a shot, Like yeah, I 385 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: also think what we were asking before about the New 386 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: York edge. I remember moving to LA and being like, 387 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: is anybody doing anything? Like I remember like New York 388 00:22:55,040 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: you're at like you're early two things. You fight for 389 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: your place, like like if this is a contest of 390 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: like how hard you can work, Like I feel like 391 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: New Yorkers work pretty hard to get what they want, 392 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: you know. And I remember moving out to Los Angeles 393 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 1: and so many people were calling themselves actors, but they 394 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: weren't doing anything. Like I was like, Okay, I'm in class, 395 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: and then I go to waitressing the I'm gonna go 396 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: to babysitting and then I'm gonna try to meet this 397 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: person and then maybe this casting director will have lunch 398 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: with me, and then maybe they'll give me a babysitting job, 399 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna go back to acting class, and 400 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: then I'm gonna try to keep my body in mental 401 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: health and shape. Like I just remember like studying my 402 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: auditions and things like that, and I started a theater company, 403 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: and like you know, I was just like hustling, And 404 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: I feel like that always gave me such an edge 405 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: because there were so many people out in LA who 406 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 1: were just far more laid back and chill. I feel 407 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 1: like people in LA were all sort of hyper focused 408 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: on like a really great head shot. Yeah, like you know, 409 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: that sort of superficial type of stuff as opposed to 410 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: like really like finding work and working on monologues or 411 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: finding a you know what, theater to do a plan 412 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: or stuff like that. Yeah. But I think not just 413 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: in acting or theater, but in the world, in whatever 414 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: business that you're in, the amount of work outside of 415 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,959 Speaker 1: doing the thing that you do to prepare you to 416 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 1: do the thing that you do is so important and 417 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: doesn't get enough credit. You hear the word lucky a lot, 418 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: or like right place at the right time, or you 419 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 1: met the right person or whatever. But I think all 420 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: of those things are a product of all of that 421 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: work that you're doing outside of the thing that you're 422 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: trying to do. I completely agree. Sometimes I'm like lucky 423 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: enough to go in and I like talk to a 424 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,959 Speaker 1: little Like I said, I started a theater company like 425 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: sixteen years ago, and I go in sometimes to like 426 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: classrooms of like twenty like younger actors, and I'm like, 427 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: what are you you doing though? Like nine to If 428 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: this is your job, right and you're going to work 429 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: at least forty hours a week on this, you should more, 430 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: by the way, Like what does that mean if you 431 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: don't have someone paying you right now currently to act? 432 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: Like what are the hours filled with? And to me, 433 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: that's also like therapy walking all of that stuff. But 434 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, this is such a mental physical game of 435 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 1: like longevity and stability and being able to when opportunity 436 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: does finally knock to be able to show up with 437 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: all of the work you've done on yourself and on 438 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: the an an acting itself, and you're ready to be there. 439 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: Because I have also seen people sabotage the shit out 440 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 1: of those opportunities, like badly because the outside stuff that 441 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: you work on was not there. I mean it's wild, yeah, 442 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I always you know, because 443 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: I did. I did theater for a number of years 444 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: and really thought that that was my path path. And 445 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: I say, now, when I moved to Los Angeles, I 446 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: was still an actor, but I felt like I changed 447 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: careers because for me, the business work outside, be it networking, 448 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: be it what's happening in the world of film and television, 449 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: is equally, if not more important than all of that stuff. Yep, No, 450 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 1: it's a big The business side of it is also huge. 451 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 1: I mean, oh my god, Like you said, some of 452 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: these greatest actors I went to school with didn't have 453 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: the business head or the business savvy of like how 454 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: to make a business of yourself and sell yourself. I 455 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: mean there's also all of that. I mean, it's it's 456 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: a lot. You've got to have a very odd combination 457 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: of like artists and artistry and at the same time 458 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 1: this business sense and this business savvy of how to 459 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: work it that's authentic and feels good to you. I mean, 460 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,959 Speaker 1: I used to waitress at a restaurant, and bless her 461 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: when my best friends used to write her fucking website 462 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 1: with her reel on every check because we would wait 463 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,199 Speaker 1: on Ryan Murphy and the creator of Batman, and Cullen 464 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: and Justin Timberlake, I mean a freaking everybody. This was 465 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: the power hour lunch spot, and that never felt authentic 466 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: to me, Like I just like I could talk and 467 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: and be like, hey, I just had an audition, you know, 468 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: like something barely that and I used to come home 469 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: and feel like shit that I was missing my opportunity. 470 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: And she totally got a job out of that. She 471 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: got a nine episode recurring part. I would have I 472 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: would have gone on that on that website. She's good. 473 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: She went to a fucking great actor. Um. She has 474 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: since now retired from the business, but at the time 475 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: she was totally hustling. And so that's what I mean 476 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: to say, Like, you have to figure out how to 477 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: work the business like in a way that feels good 478 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 1: to you. For example, I was a babysitter nanny for 479 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 1: two big asking directors who have both are two out 480 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 1: of the three only casting directors in Hollywood who repeatedly 481 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: hire me nobody else really honestly, Like, I've been babysitting 482 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: and they've been family for me for fifteen years. Yeah, 483 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: but they wouldn't continue hiring you if you could if 484 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: you didn't deliver. Well, I got the job, the whole team, 485 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,479 Speaker 1: But they're the ones that are the gate caears like 486 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: they get me in there, but luckily you're really good. 487 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: Like if you suck, they would have been like, oh damn, 488 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: we got it. Shouldn't we bring her in again? She's 489 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 1: really bad, you know what I mean? Well, that could 490 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: work the other way too. It's like I don't want 491 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: to lose my babysitter. Yes, that's true, so you maybe 492 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: here's the key. Be really nice and respectful and appear 493 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: to be artistic and be kind of a shitty babysitting. Right. 494 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: I look back and I'm like, oh my god, I 495 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: used to be smoking cigarettes out of the car with 496 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: like fly it out as soon as I would like 497 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: pick her up from school and then I would take 498 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: her to the zoo or whatever. But have like the 499 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: dude I was dating, like, come meet me at the zoo, 500 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: so I would be like double tasking, like babysitting and 501 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: going on a date. I'm not kidding. This is news 502 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: to me. I love this story. Oh my god, I 503 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: was twenty four and such a idiot. Wow. But whatever, 504 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,719 Speaker 1: And they know it now like I'm not. I mean 505 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: I hope they do. If not, now they know, please 506 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: keep hiring me, keep please keep laying me on for you. 507 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: Thank you for you, Katie. Well, early on, I understand 508 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: you appeared on a couple of episodes of both The 509 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: Guiding Light and As the World Turns. Now, I know 510 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: that's not ultimately what you wanted to do for your career, 511 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: but talk to me a little bit about that experience. 512 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: Was it awful or did that teach you something? Yes? Well, 513 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: I got this crazy thing is I got really close 514 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: on both to having like that being my first job 515 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: out of college, like contract roles, like four year contract roles, 516 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: And I always look back and being like, oh my god, 517 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: I was so upset that I didn't get it because 518 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: the money would have been great. But I am relieved 519 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: I didn't get it because I think maybe I would 520 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: have stayed there forever, like maybe we still would know 521 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: Katie lows as who the hell knows what their names were, 522 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: but for fifty years, we're going to play that part anyway. 523 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: Oh no, it was awful. It was so embarrassing because 524 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: on both roles I had to oh, no, one, I 525 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: played a nurse that stole drugs and took them. So 526 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: that was exciting. That's a good part. The other one 527 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: was horrifying because I had to like have one of 528 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: those scenes where it's like Oopsie, I forgot my bathing 529 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: suit and like jump into a hot tub that's a 530 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: pretend lake with ferns around it, and I just remember 531 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: feeling so like I was in like a nude thong 532 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: and like the whole crew was around. It wasn't a 533 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: close set, and it was like I just didn't know 534 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: at the time what that was, and I was not 535 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: a comfortable like sexy actor. God, I've been naked. I've 536 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: on this podcast. It sounds like all I do, and 537 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: it is truly not. I had a brief moment in 538 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: my early twenties where this occurred and it has never 539 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: really again, so but I remember just feeling like so 540 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: embarrassed and felt so dumb, like I was like like 541 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: like just oh god, like my acting was terrible. And 542 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: but whatever, it's part, it's part of it. It's it's 543 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: a really just part of the whole thing. God, I 544 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: wish I had it on VHS. I don't know where. 545 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that would be good. I mean, I know 546 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: you only did a few episodes. But the thing that 547 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: I were you on soaps? No, No, But the thing 548 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: that I've always thought about it and heard about it 549 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: is in terms of getting a crash. Course of being 550 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: on camera soaps to me is up another level because 551 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: you're literally being handed pages, get one shot and it's 552 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: done eighty pages a day. They do eighty pages. They 553 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: don't block anything. Every blocking has either three moves you 554 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: could do. It's like a docy dough a like stack 555 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: shot like anything, because they can't move cameras. But it's 556 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,239 Speaker 1: different than a multicam. It's not proscene, you know, it's 557 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: not proscenium staging, so there's only a few moves you 558 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: could do. And yeah, you get one shot, so you 559 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: cannot mess up your lines. It's I got those actors 560 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: and also they have to turn on the emotion and 561 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: the water works in one second, you can't pull out 562 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: the tear stick, and there ain't no tear sticks. It's 563 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: just like you just go and you're just it's really 564 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: really a wild place. Germo. You did not start on soabs, 565 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: but you did a series of episodes on what some 566 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: consider dark Horse greatest thing that ever existed, The Chappelle Show. 567 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: Talk to me a little bit about how that happened 568 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: and what that taught you. Early on, Well, I did 569 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: a movie, the movie I did with Dave Chappelle, Half Baked. 570 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: I did that, so Dave was you know, liked my 571 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: work and doug what I was doing and just brought me. 572 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: He was like, hey, I'm doing this show, Come do 573 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: the show with me. It just felt like a continuation 574 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: of playing, like we were playing when we did the 575 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: movie and he started Chappelle's Show, like if I remember correctly, 576 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: right after the film, and it just felt like we 577 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: just kept playing. You know, we were like these just 578 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: big goofballs and doing these like really provocative sketches that 579 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: Dave and Neil Brennan, who is his co writer, were writing. 580 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: You know, in one of the sketches, he the one 581 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: character uses the N word over and over and over, 582 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: and over and back in the day, they didn't bleep 583 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: the N word, and now if you watch the episodes, 584 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,719 Speaker 1: it's bleeped. But you know, it wasn't It wasn't just 585 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: being used frivolously. It was used where there was a 586 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: you know, there was a lesson and behind all of it, 587 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: and it was so smart and the writing was so intelligent, 588 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: and yeah, I just I remember just feeling really really 589 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,399 Speaker 1: lucky that that Dave gave me that opportunity to work 590 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: on that show with him. And it's funny because before that, 591 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: I had done a show called House of Buggin with 592 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: John Leguizamo, which was a sketch comedy show too, which 593 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people sort of really 594 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: heard about or know about. But I feel like I 595 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 1: got more training there than I did. Like maybe that 596 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: sort of helped me to be able to do Chappelle 597 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: Show because it was a same sort of thing. John 598 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: Leguizamo sort of took me under his wing and then 599 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: brought me onto the show and we would perform it, 600 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: you know, every Thursday after rehearsing all week and wow 601 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: in front of a live audience, and we would do 602 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: all these different characters. Yeah, Gamma is one of those 603 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: actors that can literally do everything. It's so insane, Like, 604 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: I'm also the most insecure, freaking actor in person you 605 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: can ever imagine. I think that's why I'm constantly Like 606 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: me and Katie were talking about this the other day 607 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 1: because Katie's in an acting class and I was like, Katie, 608 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: I kind of want to go and you know, audit 609 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 1: the class and possible part of it, just to sort 610 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: of keep keep that instrument oiled up so I don't 611 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: get super anxious when I'm not working for long periods 612 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: of time, you know what I mean? Yeah, were you 613 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: aware working on the Chappelle Show, like before it comes 614 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 1: out or before it starts getting the attention it does 615 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 1: that what he was doing and talking about was different 616 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: and unique, not like any other job or for you, 617 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: was it a job and you got to play? Yeah? 618 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: I think it was a little bit of both. I 619 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: remember just having such a blast and everything being so 620 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: it was just so funny. I remember just like truly, 621 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: like sincerely cracking up shooting these sketches. But then also 622 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 1: in the back of my head, I was like, this 623 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: is this is like other level because it wasn't just 624 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,760 Speaker 1: some sort of bs like comedy skit there was again 625 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: there was like a lesson and a point behind all 626 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: of it. So I remember thinking for sure that this 627 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: is something special. You know. Last thing pre Shondalanda have 628 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: to bring up to the two of you. On a 629 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: lot of my bios, it says that I was on 630 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,240 Speaker 1: this little show and an uncredited role. This is, unfortunately 631 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 1: for me, false Both of you appeared in episodes of 632 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: The Sopranos. Were you were you Katie by the time 633 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: you got on? Were you a fan of the show? 634 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: It was the biggest show ever, Like it was the 635 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: biggest show ever. It was the biggest thing. You were aware? Yeah, 636 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: I was on season six, so it was already like 637 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: the biggest show ever. Like what I call my parents 638 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 1: to tell them I got one line on The Sopranos, 639 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: Like everyone was speechless, Yeah, you were on a two? 640 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: Who did you play? No, that's what I'm saying, A 641 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: false credit right on a bunch of bios. I don't know, 642 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: and I don't think who it is here, Brian that 643 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: they think that I was. It says I was in 644 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: an episode uncredited. I wasn't at all. I never was. 645 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: That's hilarious. I only got mine because actually Garm and 646 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: I just found out from each other that we were 647 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: on the soprano was like, we didn't know that. Yeah. 648 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: By the time I got on this Sprantos, it was 649 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: like a Law and Order but like times a million, 650 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: because it was one of the few shows that shot 651 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: in New York, so everybody was trying to get on it, 652 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: and also it was the biggest show, right. But I 653 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: had one line, and Steve Bushemi was directing the episode, 654 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: and I had to go to Silver Cup Studios and 655 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 1: go to the callback, and I was so nervous it 656 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: was insane, and I had to I smoke a cigarette 657 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: in the scene. And there I'm AJ's date to a 658 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: family wedding, and a tray of like oysters come around 659 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: and the you know, the wait staff says like, would 660 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,319 Speaker 1: you like one? And I take a look, and I 661 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: inhale from my cigarette and I say, I don't eat fish, 662 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,359 Speaker 1: and then I blow out the tocsins. Right, So it's 663 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: a joke line. But I was so young. I was 664 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: twenty one, it was like twenty two, like one of 665 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: my first jobs, and Bushmi just really didn't want a 666 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: kid coming and who didn't smoke so they were like, 667 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: do you smoke? And I was like yes, And I'm 668 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: pretty sure that's the only reason why I but because 669 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 1: it was a wedding, and the whole episode took place 670 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,320 Speaker 1: in one scene in this wedding, in this wedding venue room, 671 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: and I was AJ's date, and I was sitting at 672 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,720 Speaker 1: the family table. I was in the background in every scene. 673 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: So I shot for three weeks wow at Leonard's in 674 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: Long Island, which is where my cousin Michael got Botts, 675 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: Bob Mitzvod and my whole family came. They let my 676 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: whole family come to set. Really, I hung out with 677 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: you know, Tony Soprano in his trip, like the whole cast. 678 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: They put us up in hotels in Long Island. I 679 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: went out with all of them. It was remarkably fun, 680 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: and I actually became lifelong friends with Jamie Lynn Sigler, 681 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: who played Meadow. It's where we met and we've been 682 00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: friends ever since. Yes, she and I are friends, too. 683 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:06,399 Speaker 1: Surprised we haven't met me too, Brian. I know, it's 684 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: very interesting. Okay, before Scandal, you appeared on two other shows. 685 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: You mentioned it briefly before Gray's Anatomy and Private practice. 686 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 1: Were you all in on the Shonda land thing before 687 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: scandal or were these just jobs for you? When I 688 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: was like twenty four, I started watching Grey's Anatomy because 689 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 1: I had a best friend who was on it, and 690 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta get on a Shonda Rhime show. 691 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: Like that was like in my head, I was like 692 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,760 Speaker 1: I just related to those women more than other women 693 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: on television shows. They looked like me, They looked like 694 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: normal people. They talked, kind of asked, they were really 695 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: like naturalistic, and like I just felt like, God, if 696 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: I could just get in front of Shanda Rhimes, I 697 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 1: think she might vibe my vibe, Like I think this 698 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: is a fit. And you know what's crazy? This girl 699 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: I used audition against all the time, Sarah Drew. We 700 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: used to always go head to head on everything. She 701 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: got April on Gray's Anatomy, and I was like, great, 702 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: get this girl out of here, give this girl a job, 703 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 1: And in my head, I was like, if she likes 704 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: Sarah Drew, she's definitely gonna like me, Like we could 705 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: play sisters. So yeah, I had the Shonda Rhymes bug. 706 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: Gray's Anatomy was a huge hit, and like maybe the Office, 707 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: like there were comedies, but there weren't a lot of 708 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: dramas where the leading ladies weren't like fucking alien gorgeous, 709 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: you know. And I was like, I can't. I knew 710 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: that that wasn't my type, you know, like I just 711 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,239 Speaker 1: wasn't going to be able to do that. And then 712 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,959 Speaker 1: I saw Grays and I you know, saw Sandra Oh 713 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: and Shandraw Wilson and not that they're not fucking gorgeous, 714 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 1: and Meredith Gray and and they're all fucking gorgeous, but 715 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,719 Speaker 1: they were like also something else going on, and I 716 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: was like, okay, I relate. So yeah, it had been 717 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 1: in my head. What about you, Gamel, Were you a 718 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: fan of the shows Grey's Anatomy or Private Practice round 719 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:19,879 Speaker 1: the other? And I do just want to note that, 720 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: you know, for like a decade, Grey's Anatomy aired on 721 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: the opposite of the Office, So I just want to 722 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,280 Speaker 1: know what you were watching on Thursday nights at nine o'clock. 723 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 1: I was a huge fan of Grey's Anatomy. There you go. Yeah, 724 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: but now the Office, like my family, is obsessed with 725 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 1: the same, the same. They have it on in the background. 726 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: It's one of the greatest shows of all times. Oh, so, yeah, 727 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: I was a Filya for sure. You were. Yes, Were 728 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: you trying to get in the show? I mean no, 729 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:58,920 Speaker 1: I mean, look it's sort of are just trying to 730 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 1: get a job? Yeah exactly. I mean but do you 731 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,800 Speaker 1: remember your experience auditioning? I do. Yeah, it was very 732 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: it was you know, I had one audition I was 733 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:15,320 Speaker 1: I was very reluctant to audition for the role because 734 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,799 Speaker 1: I didn't understand why they wanted to see me. And 735 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 1: the character description was, you know, he was a lot 736 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:25,439 Speaker 1: older and sort of described as a nebbish older guy 737 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,879 Speaker 1: who was obsessed with figurines, and I was like, what 738 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 1: the hell is going on? Why am I going in 739 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: for this? Was never going to get in And now 740 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,320 Speaker 1: I'm fifty one and I'm like fifties the new twenty 741 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,840 Speaker 1: six like you. But I had that one audition and 742 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: I just went for it. And and yeah, I've tested 743 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 1: for other shows and it's been the most grueling and 744 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,359 Speaker 1: nerve wracking experience. I'm sure Katie can agree with me. Ever, 745 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 1: but the fact that Shanda did not put us through 746 00:42:55,480 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: that fresh hell of testing over and over was so nice. 747 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,240 Speaker 1: We talk to me about this, what are you talking 748 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 1: about there's no testing. No, I didn't test me either. 749 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,920 Speaker 1: She didn't test anybody. I mean, they're What they did 750 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 1: was they would make an audition tape in Linda Lowe's 751 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 1: office and her you know, Linda Lowie cast Grays and 752 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: cast Scandal and cast Private and she would make the 753 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,359 Speaker 1: tape in the office and Shawda would have her pick 754 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: and Linda would have her pick. They would be the 755 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: same person, and they would send it to ABC studio 756 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: and network to be nice for like approval. But like 757 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,359 Speaker 1: they just sent the tape that you made in the room. 758 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 1: You never had to go to studio or network and 759 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,319 Speaker 1: do the scene again. Yeah, Brian is like, yeah, it was. 760 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: And you know why because Linda Lowe is married to 761 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,280 Speaker 1: Jeff Perry, who played Cyrus on Scandal. But Linda loves 762 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 1: actors and she's just like not going to fucking do that, 763 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: Like that's not her. At a certain point when they could, 764 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: when they got to a place of success that they 765 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 1: did not have to do that With ABC, they did not, 766 00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 1: and we benefited from it, Yes we did. God, now 767 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,360 Speaker 1: I really want to get into now that is that 768 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: is incredible? That is unbelievable. Yeah, it's it's insane. It's 769 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: really like. I auditioned once in the room, Shanda gave 770 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: me a redirection. I did the scene again. They taped 771 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 1: both taps, and then two weeks later she called me 772 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 1: into the office for what I thought was me going 773 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,720 Speaker 1: to audition again, and she was sitting in the room 774 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 1: and I it was weird, and there was a tape 775 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:29,799 Speaker 1: going and I was like, Okay, should I start the scene? 776 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: And she was like, oh, no, you don't have to. 777 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 1: I've already sent the tape that you made two weeks 778 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 1: ago to studio and network. You've already been approved, and 779 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you the part. And they videotaped 780 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: it and I started ugly sobbing beyond fic belief, Brian 781 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,719 Speaker 1: like boogers snot. I mean, I was running from my 782 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 1: fucking babysitting job from a family who didn't believe in diapers, 783 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,720 Speaker 1: where the baby was just pooping in between my legs 784 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:55,879 Speaker 1: over a toilet, and I had the sides in my 785 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: bag for another audition the next day. And I remember, 786 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 1: just like after they told me, and I was hysterical crying. 787 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 1: My agents didn't even know, nobody knew. Wait, why did 788 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 1: she call you back? In they wanted a videotape and 789 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,799 Speaker 1: it's on the behind the scenes DVD of season one, 790 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 1: and I looked like a five year old and I 791 00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: had to sit in my car. I remember after I 792 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 1: was sobbing and I was like, what do I do now? 793 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 1: And she was like, well, wardrobe is gonna call you 794 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: and there's gonna be a table read. And I was like, 795 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 1: there's gonna be a table and then she was like 796 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: and I said, this is the best day of my life. 797 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:32,719 Speaker 1: And she was like, but you just got engaged. I 798 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 1: was like, this is way better. My Asian was a 799 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,200 Speaker 1: horrible at a padic attack. I'm so scared to get married, 800 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 1: but I've been fighting for this my whole life, like god, 801 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,759 Speaker 1: and even then, you know, like I think what was 802 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,319 Speaker 1: so I'm sure I've been. It was probably similar with 803 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,239 Speaker 1: the office actually, like we were never like, oh yeah 804 00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,479 Speaker 1: we're getting picked up again, Yeah we're a hit show. 805 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:58,920 Speaker 1: Like we were all so fucking tired and grateful to 806 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,839 Speaker 1: have a job and never ever took for granted, like 807 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: we were a shoe in so and she had something 808 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:07,920 Speaker 1: she's caught on our podcast and said, you know, she 809 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,239 Speaker 1: had a no asshole. She called our previous couple bosses 810 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,200 Speaker 1: to vouch for us and our behavior and our personalities. 811 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she was pretty serious about putting together a 812 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:24,359 Speaker 1: group of like nice people. Well, based on what I've 813 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:28,240 Speaker 1: heard from Bellamy, everyone was they were It's really gross. 814 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,719 Speaker 1: It's just gross. Like the press used to come up 815 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:32,320 Speaker 1: to us and be at events and be like, do 816 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,359 Speaker 1: you guys hang out with anybody else? Because we would 817 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:39,359 Speaker 1: just sort of be with each other together after like 818 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,839 Speaker 1: eight years, and they'd be like, but can you guys 819 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,759 Speaker 1: go talk to me? Like no, we only just like 820 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 1: love each other. It was pretty magical from the audition 821 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,520 Speaker 1: all the way through. That's so crazy, Like the shoe, 822 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,360 Speaker 1: the other shoe never dropped where it was like and 823 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:58,080 Speaker 1: that's when everything went south. Nope. Right. One of the 824 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 1: things that Bellamy said to me was that the cast 825 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,520 Speaker 1: up scandal was like a bunch of theater kids totally. 826 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 1: I also think theater people for you, I think too 827 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,560 Speaker 1: like I think theater people have this sense of the ensemble, 828 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: like it's something bigger than your own singular performance, which 829 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,799 Speaker 1: I think is such a healthy way to for a 830 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,880 Speaker 1: long running television show. It makes it so that yes, 831 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,480 Speaker 1: I mean Kerrie Washington was obviously the star of Scandal, 832 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,680 Speaker 1: But like, storylines move around so much when you've been 833 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:33,440 Speaker 1: on the show, and I think so much of like 834 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,239 Speaker 1: theater background is like this is an ensemble. This is 835 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,319 Speaker 1: like their storyline this week and my storyline next year, 836 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,919 Speaker 1: and like, you know, just really understanding that you're part 837 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:48,360 Speaker 1: of a much bigger thing. Was there any conscious conversation 838 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:55,600 Speaker 1: about differentiating it from other shows about politics that had 839 00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: existed before, I mean, like West Wing or something. Well, yeah, 840 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: I mean Sanda was obsessed with she was a huge 841 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: West Wing fan, Okay, And I remember when Molina walked 842 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,359 Speaker 1: on to set, Josh Mlene. It was the only time 843 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: I've seen her star struck in the last fifteen years. God, 844 00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,359 Speaker 1: it was so crazy to be on a political show then, 845 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 1: wasn't it. Gee? God? Yeah, yeah, yeah, But I don't 846 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:18,719 Speaker 1: even I don't even remember any other I didn't watch 847 00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:20,799 Speaker 1: West Wing, but I don't even remember any other What 848 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,480 Speaker 1: were the other political shows that were Were there even 849 00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,719 Speaker 1: any others on at the time? Well, no, I mean 850 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:31,120 Speaker 1: Veep came on, yeah, and we all ended at the 851 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,520 Speaker 1: same time. I remember reading some article in the New 852 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,880 Speaker 1: York Times maybe or the LA Times where like as 853 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,359 Speaker 1: soon as Trump got elected, VEEP ended and Shanda chose 854 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,680 Speaker 1: to end Scandal because she was like, I'm doing a 855 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,400 Speaker 1: terrible job quoting this. But she said something like, it's 856 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:45,800 Speaker 1: one thing to write a political show when all the 857 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,239 Speaker 1: lights are on in Washington, but when all the lights 858 00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:49,759 Speaker 1: are off in DC and we don't know what the 859 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,839 Speaker 1: fuck is going on anymore, I can't write anything. I 860 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,600 Speaker 1: can't do this world anymore. It was one of the 861 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,520 Speaker 1: reasons she like, I mean, she always knew that Scandal 862 00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,319 Speaker 1: would have a beginning, middle, and end, but I know 863 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,719 Speaker 1: that that did not help things at all. Yeah, it 864 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,359 Speaker 1: was crazy. I remember the cast always being dropped into 865 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,720 Speaker 1: DC for the White House Correspondent dinner, and it was insane. 866 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,360 Speaker 1: We all got to meet Barack Obama and Michelle Obama 867 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,040 Speaker 1: and Michelle Obamas all telling us so she watched Scandal 868 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,560 Speaker 1: all day and it's her like thing to do on weekends, 869 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,799 Speaker 1: And I just about died on the floor, Like I 870 00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:26,759 Speaker 1: just was like, this is insane. Yeah, yeah, your characters, 871 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,120 Speaker 1: you guys had a little romance at one point. Oh yeah, yeah, 872 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:38,040 Speaker 1: a very a very dark, dysfunctional, chaotic romance. I'm air 873 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,600 Speaker 1: quoting if you would even call it a romance. I 874 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:42,759 Speaker 1: think it was more of a I don't know, like 875 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,680 Speaker 1: a crazy sort of connection that they had, and they 876 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,279 Speaker 1: just lusted average after each other and we played like 877 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:54,560 Speaker 1: crazy motherfucker's Like, so Garbo plays a spy, torturer, killer, 878 00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,359 Speaker 1: but he takes me under his wing and I get 879 00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,160 Speaker 1: really good also, and then we bone town USA for 880 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:03,360 Speaker 1: like a bunch while. But it's like I was so delicate. 881 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,799 Speaker 1: I was being delicate for a purpose so insane, and 882 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,560 Speaker 1: now was that filming together? It was that fun. Hell, 883 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: it was fun. I say that about nobody else. By 884 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,279 Speaker 1: the way, the times on the show that I got 885 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 1: to torture people or have crazy like on camera sex 886 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,160 Speaker 1: with Quinn were the most fun ever. You know, it 887 00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,120 Speaker 1: was real. Debbie Allen directed the first episode where we 888 00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:35,240 Speaker 1: had to like I smack your face, then you grab 889 00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,920 Speaker 1: my cheeks so that I can't speak. You're like hurting 890 00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,000 Speaker 1: my face and oh I smacked him so hard his 891 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,479 Speaker 1: ears was ringing, it wasing for like half an hour. 892 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,080 Speaker 1: I've talked about this on other shows, but I was like, Katie, 893 00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,919 Speaker 1: smack me for real, like do it for real, for real? 894 00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,040 Speaker 1: And then I was like, what did you say? Debbie 895 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,319 Speaker 1: like I couldn't he. I was like, we had been 896 00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,239 Speaker 1: friends for three years already and done three seasons when 897 00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,279 Speaker 1: our characters took a turn to get together or so, 898 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: we had a lot of actually like actory conversations where 899 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,440 Speaker 1: we were like, we got to use a lot of tongue, 900 00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:11,240 Speaker 1: like these two are not this classic movie star TV 901 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,839 Speaker 1: kissing bullshit where it's just a lot of lip. Like 902 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,560 Speaker 1: we're fans of that, like we love watching Carrie and 903 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,960 Speaker 1: Fits and Olivia do that. But for Quinn and Hawk, 904 00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,560 Speaker 1: they beat to a different drum. They're super weird, super 905 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,600 Speaker 1: kinked out. They torture people for fun. So we were 906 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,560 Speaker 1: like these to feel authentic to them, we have to 907 00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,760 Speaker 1: be weird. Yeah, And thank god we were so close 908 00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,960 Speaker 1: and we felt really safe and like able to go 909 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 1: there because I actually think it would have been really 910 00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,680 Speaker 1: weird had Quinn and Hawk just sort of done like 911 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:48,480 Speaker 1: a PG thirteen sort of vibe like they were weird. Yeah. 912 00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,120 Speaker 1: I also feel like I don't know if I would 913 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:51,719 Speaker 1: have been able to if we would have been able 914 00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,960 Speaker 1: to do this, if it wasn't you and I. I'm 915 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,319 Speaker 1: trying to think if I had a different actor that 916 00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,200 Speaker 1: I was working with, I was playing Quinn. I don't 917 00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,279 Speaker 1: know if I would have felt so comfortable or to 918 00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:07,200 Speaker 1: be like, hey, Katie, like, let's at some point I 919 00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,719 Speaker 1: didn't even ask you, but I did. I spit on you. 920 00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,680 Speaker 1: But then afterwards I was like, oh my god, I'm 921 00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:13,919 Speaker 1: so sorry. You were like I don't care. Oh yeah, 922 00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,520 Speaker 1: we had already had the conversation like you could do anything, 923 00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,600 Speaker 1: like we were so game. We just felt very safe. 924 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:26,360 Speaker 1: And did you have a safe word? No? No? What? Um? 925 00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,000 Speaker 1: So wait, did you take it further than the writers 926 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:35,160 Speaker 1: had intended? Yeah? I think so. I think so too. Yeah, 927 00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:38,400 Speaker 1: but they wrote weird shit, so like we had already 928 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:43,520 Speaker 1: licked each other's faces, he had pulled my teeth out 929 00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:48,600 Speaker 1: with fires that had already been in the script. So 930 00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:54,080 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, maybe they didn't write spit or slap 931 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,200 Speaker 1: or right that kind of thing, but we had already 932 00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:01,440 Speaker 1: gone to some really freaking weird, dark places. But I 933 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,040 Speaker 1: do think we took it further than what they wrote. Yeah, 934 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:09,839 Speaker 1: seven years together. Very difficult to say goodbye? How was 935 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,480 Speaker 1: it for you all? I feel like it was difficult 936 00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,920 Speaker 1: to say goodbye to the show, but it wasn't difficult 937 00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,880 Speaker 1: to say goodbye to the I mean it was difficult, 938 00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:21,319 Speaker 1: but I felt like they're going to be in my 939 00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,719 Speaker 1: life forever, So that didn't feel like I was like 940 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,839 Speaker 1: there was I was experiencing a loss as far as 941 00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,799 Speaker 1: the actors, but the show was. I mourned. I mean, 942 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,200 Speaker 1: playing Huck for a long time, I'm still mourning it. 943 00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,000 Speaker 1: He's the greatest character of all time. You know, we 944 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,520 Speaker 1: were really lucky. Shanda had told us a year before 945 00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,239 Speaker 1: that it was ending, so we had a lot of goodbyes, 946 00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,160 Speaker 1: We had a lot of last things. I feel like 947 00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:50,640 Speaker 1: I actually was kind of relieved, Like as weird as 948 00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,120 Speaker 1: that is, I just felt like we did it. Like 949 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,840 Speaker 1: we did it well. We did the goodbyes, well, we 950 00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,720 Speaker 1: played our parts well, no one everyone left on amazing terms. 951 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,480 Speaker 1: Like I just was so proud of us that we 952 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,080 Speaker 1: all like laid our heads on the pillow at the 953 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,759 Speaker 1: rap being like we fucking did that show. I was 954 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,480 Speaker 1: like so proud. And not to say that it would 955 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,279 Speaker 1: have taken a turn, you know, I think we could 956 00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,239 Speaker 1: have done it for a million more years, but we 957 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,960 Speaker 1: really finished on a high, and that's what Shanda wanted. 958 00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,000 Speaker 1: And I do think it would have been different to 959 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,560 Speaker 1: be on a political show under a different presidency. I do, like, 960 00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,600 Speaker 1: I think, you know, we were sort of in this 961 00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:30,520 Speaker 1: wonderful bubble of like Obama and the world looked different 962 00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,400 Speaker 1: and it was pre pandemic, and so I'm sort of 963 00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,799 Speaker 1: glad it ended where it did and they gave us 964 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:40,120 Speaker 1: so many chances to say goodbye. Yeah. We're watching episodes 965 00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,520 Speaker 1: now of the show and Katie and I are like, um, 966 00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,839 Speaker 1: it's so much crazier in real life than we were 967 00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,160 Speaker 1: ever on the show politically wise. That you're right. I 968 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,440 Speaker 1: don't know if it would have if it would have 969 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:53,799 Speaker 1: even you know, resonated with people, it would have been 970 00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,200 Speaker 1: like vanilla. Yeah, I mean all the crazy stuff that's 971 00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,480 Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. 972 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,400 Speaker 1: I think we got out with our heads held high 973 00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,520 Speaker 1: and we could be grateful for that. You have a 974 00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:12,799 Speaker 1: new podcast, Unpacking Toolbox. Yeah, about scandal? What what made 975 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:19,160 Speaker 1: you want to dive back into it? Into office ladies? Okay? 976 00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,320 Speaker 1: And I was listening to all these other rewatch podcasts 977 00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,120 Speaker 1: and I was like, Yo, someone is definitely going to 978 00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:26,880 Speaker 1: jump on this scandal thing, and it should definitely be 979 00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,880 Speaker 1: me and Guermo. I had already had a podcast for 980 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,600 Speaker 1: five years called Katie's Crib that's also produced by Shonda 981 00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:36,040 Speaker 1: Land Audio, and it's a parenting podcast and it was 982 00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,760 Speaker 1: the first one they had underneath Shonda Land's audio department. 983 00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:41,839 Speaker 1: So I just called them and I was like, do 984 00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,080 Speaker 1: you think you could do a scandal? Rewatch? I feel 985 00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,080 Speaker 1: like we have one hundred and twenty four episodes. The 986 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,640 Speaker 1: Gladiators have been bored out of their minds with no 987 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:52,000 Speaker 1: content for years since we went off the air. Garmo 988 00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,240 Speaker 1: and I love to hang out anyway, and we're funny 989 00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:56,400 Speaker 1: and cute even though you don't see us. Our voices 990 00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:00,400 Speaker 1: are delicious. Let's do this. I pitched it before I 991 00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:04,759 Speaker 1: even had like a yes from I didn't even tell Garma. 992 00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:07,640 Speaker 1: You knew I was gonna be like, hell, yeah, I hope. So. 993 00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,480 Speaker 1: I mean, he's the busiest actor and he's very very 994 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,920 Speaker 1: in demand and everybody wants him. But I was like, dude, 995 00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:19,560 Speaker 1: you could just stay at home, so in yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. 996 00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,840 Speaker 1: I know you're not on Twitter that much anymore, Katie, 997 00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,520 Speaker 1: but I still am. And the amount of people that 998 00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,680 Speaker 1: are listening to the podcast and are flipping out over 999 00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,480 Speaker 1: it and are still excited about it, and have started 1000 00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:35,600 Speaker 1: to rewatch Scandal on my heart is remarkable. The other thing, Brian, 1001 00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,640 Speaker 1: like the Office that everyone's like watching it now and 1002 00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,439 Speaker 1: you're probably getting like Gray's Anatomy has all these new 1003 00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,280 Speaker 1: teenagers that are literally starting grays Anomy from the beginning. 1004 00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:48,160 Speaker 1: The Office is having the same thing. And Scandal I 1005 00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:52,200 Speaker 1: didn't know until us rewatching it one hundred percent holds 1006 00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:58,000 Speaker 1: up yes and works and his wonderful ride of TV 1007 00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,560 Speaker 1: and I'm just like, it's on Hulu. You guys can 1008 00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,240 Speaker 1: stream this, like I'm watching all the other hot shows 1009 00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,439 Speaker 1: that are nominated for every fucking Emmy under the sun, 1010 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:10,399 Speaker 1: and like skin Fills a great show. Yeah, is it 1011 00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,960 Speaker 1: fun to go back and rewatch? Do you remember it? 1012 00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:16,400 Speaker 1: It was? It was a scary at first to think 1013 00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,400 Speaker 1: about having to go and start to watch all these episodes, 1014 00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:21,080 Speaker 1: But now so much time has passed, I feel like 1015 00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:24,800 Speaker 1: I'm watching someone else, and that's really really nice, do 1016 00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:26,160 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like I feel like I'm 1017 00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,640 Speaker 1: a true Scandal fan now a gladiator and I'm able 1018 00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,560 Speaker 1: to just enjoy it, you know, without any of my 1019 00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,640 Speaker 1: critical brain jumping in and being like why did you 1020 00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:38,400 Speaker 1: do that like that? Or why did you say that 1021 00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,200 Speaker 1: line like that, I'm I'm just sitting back and enjoying it. 1022 00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:44,560 Speaker 1: And it's so freaking good and I'm so good, You're 1023 00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:50,240 Speaker 1: so good. It's also the perfect amount of time, Like 1024 00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,840 Speaker 1: I think it's been ten years since the first season, 1025 00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:56,800 Speaker 1: so we're I'm I don't remember, I'm like, who is that? 1026 00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:00,600 Speaker 1: Like this is so long ago. And like you said, 1027 00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,000 Speaker 1: I don't really remember a lot of the scenes that 1028 00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:07,200 Speaker 1: I shot, but I do remember the behind the scene stuff, 1029 00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:12,480 Speaker 1: right vary, Yes, yes, yeah, same, that's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, 1030 00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:19,040 Speaker 1: you're awesome, Brian, You're awesome, Brian, stop it keep going. Um. 1031 00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:23,960 Speaker 1: As Katie mentioned Gammo, you're the busiest man in television recently. 1032 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:28,760 Speaker 1: Law and Order Organized Crime? How was that? It was? 1033 00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,280 Speaker 1: It was? It was trippy, but at the same time, 1034 00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:35,360 Speaker 1: it's a universe that I always feel comfortable in when 1035 00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,240 Speaker 1: they invite me back. And it was a blast, and 1036 00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,520 Speaker 1: and you know, and and in this Law and Order 1037 00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,960 Speaker 1: Organized Crime, I was not playing a criminal. I was playing, yes, 1038 00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:49,520 Speaker 1: a detective look at you, which which baby's grown up. 1039 00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:57,040 Speaker 1: Oh but he was still he was still a crooked Yeah. Um, 1040 00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,800 Speaker 1: And I got to, you know, to act with chrism 1041 00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,680 Speaker 1: Tony and uh Mauritia Hargete and Iced Tea because there 1042 00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:06,800 Speaker 1: was a lot of crossover with Lawn Order SVU, so 1043 00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:09,120 Speaker 1: it was it was really really fun. And I don't 1044 00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:10,919 Speaker 1: know if I'm going back. I was recurring on the show. 1045 00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:12,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm going back. But Life of 1046 00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:19,200 Speaker 1: an Actor, folks, Life of an Actor. Yeah, and Katie, 1047 00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:23,480 Speaker 1: you of course were in the most talked about show 1048 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:29,320 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty two in inventing Anna john Land. Thanks 1049 00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:37,000 Speaker 1: for having me to the universe. Were you surprised by 1050 00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:41,000 Speaker 1: all of the discussion of that. It's so bizarre to me. 1051 00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,360 Speaker 1: People are like the most obsessed with that story of 1052 00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,720 Speaker 1: all time. I truly was not, And I've talked about 1053 00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:48,040 Speaker 1: this with Shawn, like she's obsessed with the story and 1054 00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:50,640 Speaker 1: people are obsessed with Anna Delbie. I'm like, this bitch 1055 00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:54,680 Speaker 1: is a psycho and a sociopath and not kind and 1056 00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:57,400 Speaker 1: broke laws and like get her out of here, Like 1057 00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:00,240 Speaker 1: I don't understand, but I get I don't know. People 1058 01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:01,880 Speaker 1: are I mean, people talk to me every day. I 1059 01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:03,600 Speaker 1: get a text about like did you hear what's happening 1060 01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:05,360 Speaker 1: with Anna Delvi? Like she's doing this now? I'm like, 1061 01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,600 Speaker 1: I don't care. Gave her a goddamn show she got 1062 01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:13,520 Speaker 1: they gave her. Yeah, she's a criminal. I don't I 1063 01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,360 Speaker 1: never was like that. O'b says it. Look, I was 1064 01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,760 Speaker 1: so thrilled to be part of the story, and I'm 1065 01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,880 Speaker 1: so glad the show was wildly successful. And Julia Garner, 1066 01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,120 Speaker 1: I would act with her if she was reading the 1067 01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,959 Speaker 1: phone book. She's so genius. And Laverne Cox and Anna 1068 01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Clumsky and I mean, the cast was ridiculous, and of 1069 01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:32,120 Speaker 1: course Shawna. The writing was wonderful and I got to 1070 01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,720 Speaker 1: play a part that was so difficult, and I got 1071 01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:37,440 Speaker 1: to go to Morocco for a month and stay in 1072 01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,560 Speaker 1: the hotel where my character was conned, and I took 1073 01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:43,120 Speaker 1: my whole family and it was the shit. That's awesome. 1074 01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,200 Speaker 1: But I feel like that was my swan song playing 1075 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:51,120 Speaker 1: a twenty seven year old like I forty me too, 1076 01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:56,840 Speaker 1: Like I can't like whoa. It's so fascinating though, because 1077 01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,040 Speaker 1: there were a couple of years ago it was the 1078 01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:03,480 Speaker 1: murder Duck serious stuff. You know, there was some you know, 1079 01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:07,040 Speaker 1: murderer in the Wisconsin town. I think it was called 1080 01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,760 Speaker 1: like that was the thing. And then last year. It 1081 01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,440 Speaker 1: was like all of the con things and I have 1082 01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:20,400 Speaker 1: to say, I'm drop out, the uber Vanting, the tender Swindler, 1083 01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:23,959 Speaker 1: all of these stories about these people who are just 1084 01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:29,840 Speaker 1: horribly deceptive people doing terrible things to people. And I'm 1085 01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,439 Speaker 1: a little bit like you where I'm like, I don't 1086 01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:35,280 Speaker 1: understand why we just don't take these people and lock 1087 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,320 Speaker 1: them away. I don't either. I yeah, I was. It 1088 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:40,240 Speaker 1: was never a big thing for me, but that was 1089 01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:42,200 Speaker 1: like for the job. Well, it was a great show 1090 01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:45,880 Speaker 1: with a great performance by you. And uh, I had 1091 01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,720 Speaker 1: to cry a lot. You had to cry a lot 1092 01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:51,680 Speaker 1: a lot, but you got the stick. So you did 1093 01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:56,479 Speaker 1: You didn't You didn't. I have like an hour's worth. 1094 01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:58,400 Speaker 1: It takes in me with that one. If that and 1095 01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:06,800 Speaker 1: then I'm like ted, Yeah, you guys are awesome. Thank 1096 01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:08,720 Speaker 1: you so much for taking the time to hang out 1097 01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:16,280 Speaker 1: with me Unpacking the Toolbox. If you're a Scandal fan, 1098 01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:21,320 Speaker 1: or even if you're not totally right now, check out 1099 01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:24,520 Speaker 1: the podcast because that will enable you to definitely check 1100 01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:29,280 Speaker 1: out Scandal. You guys, thank you so much, Come back anytime. 1101 01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:46,360 Speaker 1: Thank you, Brian, Bye everybody. Katie Giermo, you guys are 1102 01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:49,280 Speaker 1: the best. Thank you so much, good luck on the 1103 01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:53,600 Speaker 1: podcast Unpacking the Toolbox, and thank you so much for 1104 01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:59,040 Speaker 1: joining me and telling me juiciest scandal ever, because that 1105 01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,520 Speaker 1: is definitely it just happened. Listeners make sure to tune 1106 01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,880 Speaker 1: in to their podcast and come back here next week 1107 01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:09,960 Speaker 1: for more stories Off the Beat. It can't come soon enough, 1108 01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:22,160 Speaker 1: and have a great week everyone. Off the Beat is 1109 01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:26,600 Speaker 1: hosted an executive produced by me Bryan Baumgartner, alongside our 1110 01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:31,240 Speaker 1: executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our 1111 01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:35,200 Speaker 1: producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our 1112 01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:39,320 Speaker 1: talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is 1113 01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:43,600 Speaker 1: Sammy Katz. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by 1114 01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:45,920 Speaker 1: the one and only Creed Bratton