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Speaker 1: Hey, hooray, how's your dad band going?

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Speaker 4: Uh?

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Speaker 5: Pretty good? Yeah, we're getting better. It's a lot of fun,

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Speaker 5: didn't you? Guys have some clever name sort of We

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Speaker 5: call ourselves the Grateful Dads.

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Speaker 1: And is that the kind of music you play? Psychedelic

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Speaker 1: sixties rock or are you more like alternative or metal?

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Speaker 5: We play a little bit of everything you know, Eighties music,

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Speaker 5: nineties rock, some Marvin Gaye, some Pink Floyd, a little

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Speaker 5: bit of.

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Speaker 1: All right, So then the physicist in me wants to

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Speaker 1: know how metal are you guys?

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Speaker 5: I would say we're Les and Iron Maiden, maybe more

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Speaker 5: than the Doobie Brothers.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like it leaves a lot of uncertainty.

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Speaker 5: That's for sure. We always try to rocket. Hi. I'm

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Speaker 5: horam and Cartoonez and the author of Oliver's Great Big Universe.

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Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 1: at UC Irvine, and I like music with all different

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Speaker 1: kinds of metal.

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Speaker 5: You mean, like the instruments or like the genre.

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Speaker 1: The genre? You know, a little heavy metal, little light metal?

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Speaker 1: Is light metal even a thing?

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Speaker 5: Mmm? I think some of these heavy metal groups have

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Speaker 5: saw songs. Does that still count as metal?

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Speaker 1: I'm not even going to weigh in on that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we don't want to anger those metal people. They're

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Speaker 5: pretty intense. But anyways, Welcome to our podcast, Daniel and

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Speaker 5: Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we attempt to understand everything in the universe,

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Speaker 1: from the tiny quantum particles to the amazing shiny metals

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Speaker 1: that make up our universe. We want to know how

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Speaker 1: everything in the universe functions we want to know what

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Speaker 1: its smallest bits are and how they come together to

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Speaker 1: explain everything in our amazing, crazy, delicious and bonkers universe.

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Speaker 5: That's right, because the universe is made out of all

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Speaker 5: kinds of things, and in this podcast we'd like to

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Speaker 5: explore all of it and to figure out what it's

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Speaker 5: all made out of, how it's all put together, and

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Speaker 5: what makes things the way they are.

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Speaker 1: How you can go from quantum particles to dad bands

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Speaker 1: in passive or marching bands in New Mexico, the only

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Speaker 1: kind of band I've ever been in.

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Speaker 5: And did you play metal or did you play a

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Speaker 5: metal instrument?

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Speaker 1: Not even I played the totally unhearable instrument, the clarinet. Oh,

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Speaker 1: you can only hear the clarinet in the marching band

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Speaker 1: if you're literally in the middle of the clarinet section.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise it's just trumpets.

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Speaker 5: But the clarinet is made out of metal, isn't it?

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Speaker 5: Or is that one of the woodwinds.

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Speaker 1: It's a woodwind, though there are metal bits of course

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Speaker 1: to operate the holes.

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Speaker 5: And what kind of music did you guys play?

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Speaker 1: Oh? You know, we played marching band versions of all

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Speaker 1: your greatest.

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Speaker 5: Hits, including metal songs.

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Speaker 1: Including metal songs. Absolutely, there's a marching band version of

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Speaker 1: every song you love and we ruin it.

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Speaker 5: Well, maybe you should start a band with physicists.

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Speaker 1: What would we call it?

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Speaker 5: I don't know what would you call it?

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Speaker 1: Maybe some Higgs Boson reference. We make everything heavy.

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Speaker 5: How about you too have mass?

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Speaker 1: That's pretty good?

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Speaker 5: Or how about the clash of particles?

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Speaker 1: All right, now, I just need some musical talents that

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Speaker 1: I'm all set.

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Speaker 5: How about the doov Boson brothers?

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Speaker 1: All right? I think we're good on band names.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, it is interesting to think about all the

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Speaker 5: things that the stuff in the universe is made out of, right, it.

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Speaker 1: Is really interesting. It's fascinating to understand how all that

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Speaker 1: stuff got made and how it comes together to make

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Speaker 1: our universe, because even the tiniest little bits of metal

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Speaker 1: here and there are required, absolutely essential for the universe

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Speaker 1: to operate the way that it does.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Because the universe, I guess, is made out of

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Speaker 5: all kinds of things, gases, solids, liquids, metals, non metals, acids, bases,

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Speaker 5: There's all kinds of ways that you can categorize the

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Speaker 5: stuff that stuff is made out of, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And though it's all made out of the

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Speaker 1: same fundamental bits. You take quarks and you mix them

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Speaker 1: together to make protons and neutrons, you add electrons. Those

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Speaker 1: few little ingredients can make all kinds of things out

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Speaker 1: there in the universe, with all kinds of different behaviors.

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Speaker 1: Some of them conduct electricity, some of them don't. Some

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Speaker 1: of them are strong, some of them are brittle, some

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Speaker 1: of them are soft, Some of them interact, and some

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Speaker 1: of them don't. It's incredible the variety of stuff you

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Speaker 1: can make with just a few basic bits.

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Speaker 5: Some of the stuff is soft rock, some of it

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Speaker 5: is classical physics, some of it is heavy metals.

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Speaker 1: Literally, with the same instruments, you can make any kind of.

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Speaker 5: Music, and with the same kinds of particles, you can

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Speaker 5: make everything that you see out there in the universe,

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Speaker 5: all the different kinds of stuff out there. And sometimes

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Speaker 5: it's kind of surprising all the different kinds of things

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Speaker 5: that we're made out of, right, Like, we're not just

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Speaker 5: made out of carbon and the basic building blocks, but

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Speaker 5: there's a bunch of weird things that it turns out

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Speaker 5: are sort of essential to our living. Right. Our bodies

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Speaker 5: need copper.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and oxygen, for example, and all sorts of bits

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Speaker 1: to take advantage of the clever tricks of chemistry to

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Speaker 1: communicate information along our nerves. To capture oxygen in our

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Speaker 1: red blood cells, you need all sorts of elements. So

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Speaker 1: it's wonderful that these things exist out there in the universe,

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Speaker 1: that they've been somehow manufactured through physics in order to

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Speaker 1: shape our existence.

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Speaker 5: Now, some of us have more or less metal inside

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Speaker 5: of us, right, I mean, I grew up in the

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Speaker 5: eighties and so my teeth are full of metals, all

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Speaker 5: kinds of metals in there. Absolutely got some lead grills.

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Speaker 1: And some of us probably played with mercury as a kid,

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Speaker 1: and so we have more or less mercury in us.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, did you play with mercury? I play with mercury

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Speaker 5: all the time, which probably maybe explains a lot.

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Speaker 1: That's why you're in a heavy metal band now, Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's why I'm so mercuriers. But yeah, it kind

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Speaker 5: of makes you wonder what else the stuff out there

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Speaker 5: in the universe is made out of. You know, even

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Speaker 5: our planet I'm sure is mostly iron and rocks and silica.

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Speaker 5: But the stuff out there in space, what is that

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Speaker 5: made out of?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, most of the stuff in the solar system is

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Speaker 1: not us or even the Earth. An overwhelming fraction of

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Speaker 1: the Solar system is basically just the Sun. And of

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Speaker 1: course the Sun is crucial to life on Earth and

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Speaker 1: the operation of the Solar system. So it's in our

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Speaker 1: interest to understand, like, hey, what's in the sun, because

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Speaker 1: that affects how long it's gonna last and how it behaves.

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Speaker 5: And so today on the podcast, we'll be tackling the

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Speaker 5: question how much metal is in the sun, not how

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Speaker 5: much metal is the sun?

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Speaker 1: How metal is the sun? If it had a dad band,

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Speaker 1: what would it.

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Speaker 5: Play well, would probably play a lot of songs about

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Speaker 5: the Sun. You know, here comes the Sun, you are

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Speaker 5: my Sunshine.

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Speaker 1: It's opening has to be here comes the Sun. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: that's its walk on music. For sure, that's their theme music.

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Speaker 5: Who would the son be in a band with Jupiter,

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Speaker 5: I guess or other sons?

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Speaker 1: It might outshine Jupiter, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 5: Or maybe it's a solo act. Can you be a

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Speaker 5: solo metal act?

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Speaker 1: Probably you'd have to because nobody wants to be in

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Speaker 1: the Sun's shadow.

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Speaker 5: I think if you're next to the Sun, you're definitely

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Speaker 5: not in the shadow.

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Speaker 1: I know. I love how that joke makes no.

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Speaker 5: Sense I'm trying to save it there. But no, you know,

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Speaker 5: I'm finding the loss of physics here, Daniel.

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Speaker 1: No, I was going for maximum nonsense.

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Speaker 5: M right, right, was on purpose. There's very metal of you.

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Speaker 5: If he has shouted it out, it would be even

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Speaker 5: more metal.

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Speaker 1: This is a really fascinating topic to me because I

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Speaker 1: love mysteries in our own neighborhood. You know, we wonder

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Speaker 1: about what's going on at the edge of the universe

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Speaker 1: or the beginning of time. But gosh darn it, we

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Speaker 1: haven't even figured out what our own solar system is

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Speaker 1: made out of.

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Speaker 5: We live in it, but we don't know kind of

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Speaker 5: what's in it, what's it all made out of. But

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Speaker 5: it's kind of an interesting question because you're particularly asking

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Speaker 5: how much metal is in the sun, not like what

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Speaker 5: is the sun made out of? Because I guess most

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Speaker 5: of the sun is just one thing, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the Sun is mostly hydrogen and a little bit

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Speaker 1: of helium, and what you call the rest is kind

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Speaker 1: of up for debate. I cringe to inform you that

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Speaker 1: it depends on your definition of metal, because in astronomy,

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Speaker 1: metal is anything but hydrogen or helium.

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Speaker 5: Right. I was going to mention that, like what exactly

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Speaker 5: do you mean by metal? Because the metal means different

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Speaker 5: things to different people, right, yeah, exactly, I feel like

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Speaker 5: to us or to the everyday person, a metal is

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Speaker 5: something that shiny and hard conducts electricity. Now is that wrong?

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Speaker 1: No, it's totally reasonable to think metals are things that

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Speaker 1: are metallic that have those properties, right, And that's how chemists,

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Speaker 1: for example, use the word metal. But astronomers think about

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Speaker 1: things differently.

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Speaker 5: Wait wait, wait, so is there an official definition of

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Speaker 5: metal by chemists that's different than the definition of metals

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Speaker 5: by physicists.

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Speaker 1: Well, by astronomers in particular, because the condensed matter physicists

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Speaker 1: would agree with the chemists because they're sort of almost

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Speaker 1: on the chemistry side of physics. But astronomers, Wow, that's

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Speaker 1: their own community, and you know, they got their issues

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Speaker 1: with naming stuff. There's fights about everything.

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Speaker 5: M Okay. So then if we're asking how much metal

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Speaker 5: is in the sun, what are we asking like how

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Speaker 5: much non helium and hydrogen is in the sun? Or

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Speaker 5: are we asking how much metallic shining stuff is in

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Speaker 5: the sun?

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Speaker 1: Well, I want to know everything about what's in the sun,

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Speaker 1: like how much iron is there anyway? And where did

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Speaker 1: it come? From how could iron get into the sun?

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Speaker 1: But we don't even know very well the answer to

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Speaker 1: the more basic question, which is how much non hydrogen

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Speaker 1: and helium is there in the sun? How much astronomy

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Speaker 1: metal is in the sun?

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Speaker 5: Oh okay, so we're really asking the question how much

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Speaker 5: of the sun is not hydrogen or helium?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Exactly?

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Speaker 5: Can we ask later how much of the sun is

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Speaker 5: the shiny metallic stuff?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're very mercurious, so you're allowed to ask anything.

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Speaker 5: A mercurious What you said mercurious?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Is that like a merman, but like a curious merman?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, I guess you can be bi curious,

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Speaker 1: you can be mercurious. You know, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: that means. I'll let you figure that out. You just

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Speaker 1: want to dive into everything?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I want to know it all, but only for

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Speaker 5: a short amount of time. But anyways, how much metal

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Speaker 5: is in the sun? That's an interesting question. How did

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Speaker 5: you come up with this question?

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Speaker 1: Well? I was reading some paper is about the mysteries

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Speaker 1: of how much metal is in the sun. I thought

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Speaker 1: it was fascinating that we still don't know the answer

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Speaker 1: to this pretty basic question that influences like the most

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Speaker 1: important thing in our neighborhood.

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Speaker 6: Mmm.

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Speaker 5: Interesting, And I think also like what's in the sun

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Speaker 5: sort of affects the kind of light that we get

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Speaker 5: from the sun, right, Like you can tell what kinds

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Speaker 5: of things are inside of a star by looking at

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Speaker 5: its light.

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Speaker 1: And it has really cosmic consequences because we use the

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Speaker 1: Sun to calibrate our understanding of what's in the rest

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Speaker 1: of the universe, and the amount of metal in stars

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Speaker 1: controls their fate, like whether they'll collapse into a black

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Speaker 1: hole or not, and also how likely they are to

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Speaker 1: have planets around them. And so if we revise our

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Speaker 1: understanding of what's in the sun, it could change our

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Speaker 1: understanding of what's out there in the universe, how long

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Speaker 1: it will last, and the likelihood that there could be aliens.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, in the end, it always connects to aliens.

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Speaker 5: Where did that come from? Is this just a big

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Speaker 5: excuse to talk about aliens again?

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Speaker 1: That's what this whole podcast is. Are you just figuring

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Speaker 1: that out?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, that we were explaining the universe.

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Speaker 1: It's just a fun for talking about aliens.

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Speaker 5: I see, this is all just deployed to what prepares

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Speaker 5: us subconsciously for the imminent arrival of aliens or the

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Speaker 5: big reveal that you are an alien.

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Speaker 1: No comment.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's very suspicious, all right. So, as usual, we

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Speaker 5: were wondering how many people out there had thought about

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Speaker 5: this question and about the amount of metal in the sun.

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Speaker 1: Thanks very much to everybody who answers these questions. I

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Speaker 1: love hearing your thoughts on the question of the day,

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Speaker 1: so please don't be shy. If you would like to contribute,

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Speaker 1: write to me two questions at Danielanjorge dot com and

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Speaker 1: I'll get you on the air.

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Speaker 5: So think about it for a second. How much metal

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Speaker 5: do you think is in the sun. Here's what people

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Speaker 5: have to say.

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Speaker 6: I think the heavier elements only come out during supernovas,

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Speaker 6: and so I would have to say no metal in

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Speaker 6: the sun.

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Speaker 5: I think that nineteen nine percent of the solar systems

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Speaker 5: metals allocated in the Sun itself. But with regards to

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Speaker 5: the makeup of the Sun, I think that only about

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Speaker 5: eight percent.

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Speaker 1: Of it is metal.

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Speaker 5: The rest of it is gas.

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Speaker 6: Most it is fine, I want to guess, not very

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Speaker 6: much right now, like less than one percent. But as

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Speaker 6: the Sun grows older, maybe the amount of metal in

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Speaker 6: the core will increase until the mass becomes so great

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Speaker 6: that the light cannot escape, and then the sun will

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Speaker 6: turn black.

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Speaker 4: If we measured that diameter of the outer core, I

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Speaker 4: would assume that the metal is like less than like

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Speaker 4: ten percent of like the diameter with But I feel

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Speaker 4: like it's a trick question because don't cosmologists say anything

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Speaker 4: above helium as a metal, so this might be a

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Speaker 4: true question. I'm going to go ninety eight percent metal.

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Speaker 7: The Sun is totally metal, but I think if we're

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Speaker 7: talking about actual composition, there is not all that much.

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Speaker 7: I'm going to guess that the Sun has a little

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Speaker 7: bit of metal, like maybe one or two percent of

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Speaker 7: its total composition, but that's actually considered a lot compared

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Speaker 7: to other stars, and that the stars that came before

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Speaker 7: the Sun had even less metal.

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Speaker 5: All Right, I like the person who said the sun

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Speaker 5: is totally metal.

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Speaker 1: The sun has a good attitude. I think that's what

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Speaker 1: he means.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well it is pretty hot, I guess intense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just not back down. Yeah, it just keeps

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Speaker 1: rocking on and on.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and it eventually burns up. So that kind of

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Speaker 5: fits the heavy metal rock star trope.

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Speaker 1: Flaming out as a pretty metal thing to do.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, all right, well, Daniel, maybe start with the basics.

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Speaker 5: How does a star even get metal in it? Because,

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Speaker 5: as we all know, stars are made out of hydrogen,

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Speaker 5: helium or hydrogen initially, right, all stars, or at least

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Speaker 5: the original stars were made out of hydrogen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a cool question. Stars can get metal in

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Speaker 1: them in two ways. One is that they can be

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Speaker 1: formed with metal in them. Stars come from a collapse

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Speaker 1: of a big cloud of like gas and dust and

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Speaker 1: other bits. So there's metal in the neighborhood. When the

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Speaker 1: star collapses, then that metal will become part of the star.

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Speaker 1: But that depends, as you were alluding to, on what's

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Speaker 1: what's been made? Has something else out there made metal?

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Speaker 1: And the only way that we know to make metal

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Speaker 1: is in the hearts of stars. So the second way

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Speaker 1: that stars can get metal in them is they can

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Speaker 1: make metal. They confuse hydrogen and helium together to make

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Speaker 1: heavier stuff, producing metal.

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Speaker 5: I meaning like when a star was formed and it

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Speaker 5: gathered all the gas to become a star, maybe there

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Speaker 5: were metals floating around where all this stuff was and

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Speaker 5: that's how metal got inside the star. But were the

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Speaker 5: first stars made out of pure hydrogen or did the

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Speaker 5: universe makes the metal at the Big Bang?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, great question. So about a millions of a second

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Speaker 1: after the sort of primordial goo, things were expanding and cooling,

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Speaker 1: and you got quarks forming into protons and neutrons, and

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Speaker 1: protons are hydrogen. So basically the first thing that was

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Speaker 1: made was hydrogen. Because protons form, then you have a

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Speaker 1: few minutes in which the conditions are ripe for fusion

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Speaker 1: for those protons to bang together and make heavier stuff,

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Speaker 1: And so that's when helium was made. But you only

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Speaker 1: had like three minutes where the universe was in the

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Speaker 1: right conditions to make anything heavier. So you had huge

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Speaker 1: amounts of hydrogen, made a little bit of helium, but

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Speaker 1: almost nothing else. Basically, after the Big Bang, you had

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Speaker 1: vast quantities of hydrogen, trace amounts of helium, and almost

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Speaker 1: nothing else. Basically, no metal was around after the Big Bang.

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Speaker 5: Although I hear you saying almost, does that mean that

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Speaker 5: there was a little bit of the heavier metals in

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Speaker 5: the universe right after the Big Bang before stars got made.

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Speaker 1: It's impossible to say that there was none. But it's

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Speaker 1: very hard to make those heavier elements without the density

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Speaker 1: and the time. Using helium together makes something very unstable.

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Speaker 1: If you just start with two helium nuclei, you really

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Speaker 1: need three together to get the carbon, and that's much

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Speaker 1: harder to do without the density that you have in

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Speaker 1: stars and the time to fuse them. So it's possible

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Speaker 1: you made a little tiny bit of carbon after the

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Speaker 1: Big Bang, but it's overwhelmingly hydrogen, a little bit of

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Speaker 1: helium and maybe tiny negligible amounts of carbon m.

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Speaker 5: So the universe, I guess, was pretty pure hydrogen and helium,

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Speaker 5: and then those started to make stars, and that's when

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Speaker 5: the first metals really came into the universe exactly.

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Speaker 1: So those first stars were basically metal free, just huge

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Speaker 1: clouds of hydrogen with a little bit of helium in them,

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Speaker 1: and they produced the first metals. Right. They didn't start

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Speaker 1: with really any metal in them at all, but these

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Speaker 1: were huge stars. It turns out if you form stars

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Speaker 1: without any metal in them, you got much bigger globs.

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Speaker 1: And those stars are really big, so they burn really

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Speaker 1: hot and they burn really fast, so they don't last

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Speaker 1: for very long, and then when they die, they spray

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Speaker 1: their metals out into the universe to see the next stars.

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Speaker 5: Right, And some of them burn and explode and collapse

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Speaker 5: without having used up all of the hydrogen and helium.

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Speaker 1: Right, Oh, yes, absolutely, stars do not burn all of

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Speaker 1: their hydrogen helium before they end their lives.

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Speaker 5: So like when those first stars exploded, how much of

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Speaker 5: them was still hydrogen and helium and how much of

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Speaker 5: the heavier metals had they eight?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a cool question. We can answer that by

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Speaker 1: looking at how much metal is in the next generation

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Speaker 1: of stars, because those little bits of metal are excellent

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Speaker 1: seeds for the next stars. Like, metal is heavier than

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Speaker 1: non metal, it has more protons, and it has more mass.

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Speaker 1: It's denser, so it's more likely to form a seed

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Speaker 1: of another star start that gravitational collapse. So the next

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Speaker 1: generation of stars, the stars we call population two, these

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Speaker 1: are still really really low metal. It's like less than

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Speaker 1: a tenth of one percent of those stars is metal,

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Speaker 1: so it's still overwhelmingly hydrogen and helium even in the

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Speaker 1: second generation of stars.

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Speaker 5: Whoa so maybe painted picture. So those first stars burned,

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Speaker 5: they collapse, they exploded, and then all that stuff re

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Speaker 5: collapsed again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, but it didn't happen that quickly. Helium floats

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Speaker 1: around for like hundreds of millions of years before the

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Speaker 1: first stars are born. There this period in the early

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Speaker 1: universe called the dark ages, before there was any light

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Speaker 1: in the universe, just these dark clouds of hydrogen and helium.

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Speaker 1: And then those first stars burn for like just a

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Speaker 1: few million years. The larger the star is, the shorter

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Speaker 1: it's life, So those didn't burn for very long. But

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Speaker 1: then the next generation they're a little smaller and they

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Speaker 1: can burn for a very very long time.

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Speaker 5: Why were they smaller.

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Speaker 1: The more metal you have in the universe, the more

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Speaker 1: likely it is that a big cloud of gas is

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Speaker 1: going to break up into multiple stars rather than collapsing

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Speaker 1: into one megastar, because you have all these different places

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Speaker 1: for it to seed. Remember that for a star to form,

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Speaker 1: you need sort of special conditions. You need a big

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Speaker 1: cloud of gas, but you need to also be cold

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Speaker 1: enough so that it can collapse, and you need some

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Speaker 1: like gravitational seed to get that runaway effect going. And

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Speaker 1: so if you have a variety of different densities, you're

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Speaker 1: more likely to have smaller clumps than bigger clumps, and

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Speaker 1: those smaller stars tend to burn colder and then they

444
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 1: last longer.

445
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,520
Speaker 5: So if you have a giant cloud of hydrogen, it

446
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 5: doesn't break up as much. It just hangs around until

447
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 5: it all condenses into a giant star exactly.

448
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 1: And people might be imagining like that one cloud makes

449
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 1: one star, but it's more likely that a huge cloud

450
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 1: makes multiple stars all simultaneously. And if that cloud has

451
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 1: more metal in it, then you have more seeds for

452
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 1: those stars, so you end up with more smaller stars

453
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 1: rather than fewer megastars like you did in the first batch.

454
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 5: Okay, so then that's the second generation of stars, right.

455
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And those stars were formed like thirteen fourteen

456
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: billion years ago, but they burn a long time because

457
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 1: they're small, they're redder, they're colder stars. So we can

458
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 1: still see some of those stars around in the universe,

459
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 1: especially in globular clusters.

460
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 5: Like around us or only far away or further back

461
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 5: in time.

462
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 1: They're also in the heart of our galaxy, so population

463
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:43,640
Speaker 1: two stars are all around.

464
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 5: Did that generation of stars then they eventually explode and

465
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 5: make the next generation of stars?

466
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 1: That definitely happened. It's a little bit misleading to think

467
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 1: about these as generations in a sort of crisp sense.

468
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 1: It's not like all that first generation died and then

469
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: there's only the second generation, and there's only the third generation.

470
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: Every star is formed from remnants of multiple stars, and

471
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: some of them might have gone through one, two, three,

472
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: four generations, maybe even more. It depends on the size

473
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: of those stars. So this categorization is very rough. It's

474
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,640
Speaker 1: not super precise. It's not like all the stars are

475
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 1: in sync. But the latest generation of stars, which are

476
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: called population one stars formed more recently in the universe,

477
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: when there's been more time to make metal in the universe.

478
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 1: So these we call high metallicity stars, which means they

479
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 1: have like between one and four percent metal.

480
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 5: Wait, wait, wait, the third generation of stars is called

481
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 5: population one.

482
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right. Population one are the ones made

483
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: most recently. Population two is the previous generation. Population three

484
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: is still somewhat theoretical first generation of stars. And I

485
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: know the naming system is ridiculous, and I will defend

486
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: it even for a moment.

487
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 5: What generation is our sun?

488
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: Our son we think is a population one star, so

489
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: it's part of the most recent generation.

490
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 5: All right, Well, then let's get to the question of

491
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 5: how much matall is in our star, the Sun, and

492
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 5: whether it rocks or not. So let's dig into that

493
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:07,840
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494
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543
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544
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545
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,119
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546
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547
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548
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,359
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549
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550
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,359
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551
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552
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553
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554
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561
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562
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Speaker 5: All right, we're asking the question how much metal is

563
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 5: in the sun, and by metal we mean elements that

564
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 5: are not hydrogen or helium.

565
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. We want to know how much oxygen, carbon, neon, hydrogen, sulfur, iron,

566
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: all that stuff all added up. That's even like the

567
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: first most basic question you want to know, like how

568
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: much of that heavier stuff is in the sun. And

569
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: then of course we want to know the proportions also,

570
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: But we first need to nail down the initial question.

571
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 5: Well, why do you think astronomers call everything not hydrogen

572
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 5: and helium? Metals because they couldn't come up with another name,

573
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 5: or is there rationale there? Like I would think metals

574
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 5: maybe in chemistry has the connotation that it conducts electricity

575
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 5: or is shining. So what's the astronomer's excuse.

576
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: Well, I think there is this division between hydrogen helium,

577
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: of which there's so much in the universe, and everything else,

578
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: and so you really need another category. I don't know

579
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 1: if metal was the right way to describe it, but

580
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: there definitely are two different categories. There really is hydrogen

581
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 1: helium and all the other stuff in the universe.

582
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 5: So it's more of a name just given by population

583
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 5: or abundancy.

584
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: Also, this is the stuff produced by Star, so it's

585
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: sort of like the output of Star. It doesn't have

586
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: to do as much with like the chemical properties or

587
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: the behaviors or the appearance the way it does in chemistry.

588
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: It's more about the abundance in the universe and how

589
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: it was made.

590
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 5: All right, So then the latest generation of Star has

591
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 5: about one point four to four percent metals, Yeah.

592
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: Exactly, And so there's a variation there, like depending on

593
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: where you were when you were formed, and also whether

594
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: you can make metals inside you. There's a pretty big spread,

595
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: and how much metal there is in stars. On the

596
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: other hand, most stars still hydrogen helium. Like, we've been

597
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: burning hydrogen for fourteen billion years. We've hardly made a

598
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: dent in the fraction of the universe that is hydrogen.

599
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 5: You mean our star or in the universe in general.

600
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: The universe in general, you know, the universe is still

601
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: mostly hydrogen. Like ninety two percent of the universe right

602
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: now is hydrogen.

603
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 5: So like our star right now is burning hydrogen. Were

604
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 5: you saying, like the amount of hydrogen it's burning or

605
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 5: fusing together is super tiny tiny.

606
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: I'm saying, we've been burning for fourteen billion years and

607
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: we've hardly made a dent. Yeah, stars are the universe's

608
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: mechanism for like turning light stuff like hydrogen into heavier stuff.

609
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: And you might think, wow, we've been burning for a

610
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: long time. We must have plowed through it all. But

611
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: there's still vast, vast quantities of hydrogen out there.

612
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 5: Now, Why is that just because there's so much hydrogen

613
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 5: and helium in the sun, But really the part is fusing,

614
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 5: it's only at the very tiny center of it. Or

615
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 5: why isn't it burning up faster?

616
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: The reason you suggest, it is totally accurate. Like fusion

617
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,959
Speaker 1: happens mostly at the core where things are dense and

618
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,719
Speaker 1: things are hot, at least in the initial stages. Then

619
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: when the core of the sun fills with ash or

620
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: fills with heavier metals than the sun confused, then the

621
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: fusion moves outwards. But also remember fusion is hard. Even

622
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: if you have an enormous pile of hydrogen you squeeze

623
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: it to the right pressure and density and temperature, it's

624
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: not like all the hydrogen is instantly just going to

625
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: fuse into helium. You need a lot of hydrogen and

626
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: a lot of time to get any fusion happening. So

627
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 1: it's a very low probability thing, which is why you

628
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: need an enormous pile a very high temperature, high density

629
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: gas to get any event to happen.

630
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 5: All right, So then that's kind of the general picture.

631
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 5: But what about our sun? How much of our sun

632
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 5: is still hydrogen and helium and how much of it

633
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 5: is badly named metals.

634
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: So about twenty years ago we thought we had this settled.

635
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: We had studied the sun and looked at the light

636
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: that comes from the sun, the spectrum of it, like

637
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: how much red light is there, how much green light,

638
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: how much blue light, and use that to try to

639
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: figure out what was in the sun, And we thought

640
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: we had it nailed down. We thought the answer was

641
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: about one point eight percent metal.

642
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 5: Meaning like if you look at the light from the sun,

643
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 5: the spectrum of the light from the sun sort of

644
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 5: can tell you what the Sun is made out of,

645
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 5: or we thought it could.

646
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. The Sun is really fascinating because, on one hand,

647
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: a lot of the light comes from just the Sun

648
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: being hot. Everything out there in the universe that's made

649
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: of charged particles will glow based on its temperature, and

650
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: the hotter things are, the higher energy to photons it

651
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: will be released. So a lot of the light from

652
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: the Sun is what we call just black body radiation,

653
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: something hot giving off light the way like I give

654
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: off light and you give off light. We don't give

655
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: off light in the visible spectrum the way the Sun does,

656
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: because we're not white hot the way the Sun is.

657
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: But that's where a lot of the light from the

658
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: Sun comes from.

659
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 5: Where does the other light come from?

660
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: The other light comes from specific atoms in the sun

661
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: emitting light or absorbing that light. So I feel like

662
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: an oxygen atom in the atmosphere of the Sun, and

663
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: it gets hot, its electrons jump up a couple of

664
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: energy levels, then they jump down, they relax, and they

665
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: emit a photon, and that photon it's very specific energy.

666
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: It corresponds to the difference in the energy levels of

667
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: that electron around the oxygen atom. Every atom out there

668
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: can emit an absorb light in very specific wavelengths. So

669
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: if you look at the spectrum from the Sun, this

670
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: says overall black body radiation. Then these spikes where certain

671
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: atoms are emitting light that correspond to their energy levels

672
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: and their dips where other atoms are absorbing light that's

673
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: produced by the Sun at the energy levels that they

674
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: can do it. So you look at all those wiggles

675
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: in the spectrum and you can tell what's in the sun, or.

676
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 5: At least it seems like we thought we could. So

677
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 5: we did that for our sun, and we thought it

678
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 5: had a certain amount of metals in it. But then

679
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 5: what happened.

680
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: So people thought, Okay, that's cool, one point eight percent,

681
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: that makes total sense. But then people thought, well, let's

682
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: cross check it. Let's see if we can measure what's

683
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: in the sun using another technique and come up with

684
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: the same answer. Another way to figure out what's in

685
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: the sun is to watch it boil, is to like

686
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: look for waves in the surface of the sun, because

687
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: that tells you like how thick the sun is, the

688
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: viscosity of the sun, which depends on what's in there,

689
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: what's sort of mucking around?

690
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 5: Wait, what what do you mean, Like as you look

691
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 5: at the surface of the Sun, you see it churning.

692
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 5: It's like super hot plasma, right mm hmm, And the

693
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,479
Speaker 5: way the plasma churns tells you how goopy it is.

694
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, they call it helio seismology, and it's sort of

695
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: similar to the way you can use earthquakes to understand

696
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: what the Earth is made out of. Like an earthquake

697
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: shake the earth, and then that shaking travels through the

698
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: Earth and it reflects at boundaries. Like that's how we

699
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: know where that boundary is between various layers of the Earth.

700
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: We can also deduce things about like what's there because

701
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: how it bounces and reflects depends on the relative density

702
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: of things at those layers. So just by measuring earthquakes

703
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: at the surface, you can get a pretty good picture

704
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: for what's in the earth. In the same way we

705
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: can look at ripples on the surface of the sun

706
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: helio seismology, they call it. To get a picture for

707
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: what's in the sun.

708
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 5: We don't have earthquake measuring devices on the sun. How

709
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 5: do we know the shaking of the surface of the sun.

710
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: So we don't need a complete picture of what's in

711
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: the sun. But we can watch waves move across the

712
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: surface of the sun. You know, we have a lot

713
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: of telescopes that can look at the Sun and they

714
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: can see the behavior and the churning on the surface,

715
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,239
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of stuff going on there. But

716
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: we only need a sort of rough picture of what's

717
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: in the sun because it turns out this one very

718
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: particular thing that's controlled by the metals that we're trying

719
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: to get a sense of. It's a balance between two

720
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: processes that are trying to move the heat out of

721
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: the sun. The sun has sort of two parts to it.

722
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: It's like the outermost part and the innermost part. And

723
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 1: the innermost part a lot of heat is being created

724
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: it's radiating out, so that radiation comes out from the

725
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: core and hits the outer part of the sun. But

726
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: that outer part can be kind of opaque because of

727
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: like oxygen or heavy elements can absorb those photons, so

728
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: that means that that energy can't be radiated out from

729
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: the core of the Sun. Instead, you need to get

730
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 1: that energy out using another method we call convection, basically

731
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: just like hot stuff rising up the way it does

732
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: in a pot of water. So there's sort of two

733
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: parts to the Sun, one where photons can bring the

734
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: energy out and the other where you have to rely

735
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 1: on convection. Then there's a boundary between these two regions,

736
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: and that depends a lot on how much oxygen is

737
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: there in the Sun, and that's what we're trying to

738
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: measure with this helio seismology. We're trying to figure out

739
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: like where's the threshold between these two parts of the

740
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:57,959
Speaker 1: inside of the sun.

741
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 5: And we do this by just looking at the flow

742
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 5: that you can see in the picture of the sun.

743
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 5: Or do we have like an X ray way to

744
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 5: look inside the sun.

745
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: No, we have no X ray. Unfortunately, it's just effectively

746
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: sound waves in the sun. Right of course, nobody's hearing

747
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: these things. When we say sound waves, we just mean

748
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: pressure waves moving through the sun. But just the same

749
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: way that earthquakes make effectively sound waves through the Earth,

750
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: and you can listen to the Earth ringing just by

751
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: seeing the Earth shake. If we watch the surface of

752
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: the Sun, we don't have like instruments on the surface

753
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: that measure the actual shaking, but you can see these

754
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: ripples in the plasma on the surface. You can effectively

755
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: see sound moving through the Sun and bouncing back. And

756
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,919
Speaker 1: this boundary between the two parts of the Sun, one

757
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: that's opaque to photons and one that isn't shows up

758
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: as like a glitch in the sound waves. It changes

759
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: how those sound waves move through the Sun.

760
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,240
Speaker 5: Well, wait, are you saying there's sort of like two

761
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 5: kinds of sun surfaces.

762
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like a surface within the surface, the same

763
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: way that like the Earth has multiple layers to it,

764
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, mantle and the outer core and the inner core,

765
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: et cetera. The Sun also has these regions, and there's

766
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: this boundary they think it's like seventy ish percent of

767
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: the solar radius. Within that photons can like fly free

768
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: and you have this radiative transfer where photons can move

769
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: heat out from the center. The outer part is more

770
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: opake and photons can't really get through it. It's the

771
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: only way to get heat out from the Sun. There

772
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: is more like convection, like hot gas rising up.

773
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 5: But then what are you basically saying that looking at

774
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 5: these soundwaves tells us a different number for what the

775
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 5: Sun is made out of exactly.

776
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: Looking at the sound waves tells us something about where

777
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: this balance is between the two different parts of the Sun,

778
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: and that depends on how much metal is in the Sun.

779
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: Because the metallicity of the Sun controls whether it's opaque

780
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: or transparent. You have more oxygen, more carbon, more neon.

781
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: That makes the Sun more opaque, which changes how far

782
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: the photons can get. So if we can use sound

783
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: waves on the surface of the Sun figure out where

784
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: is this transition within the Sun between opaque and transparent

785
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: to these photons, then we could figure out how much

786
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: metal is in the Sun because the metallicity controls where

787
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: that transition is.

788
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 5: But then why do metals make the sun more apake.

789
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: These heavy elements like oxygen, they like to absorb these photons.

790
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 5: Like more than hydrogen.

791
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, more than hydrogen. You know, every atom likes to

792
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 1: absorb photons of a certain energy, and so the kinds

793
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: of energy that tend to be produced in fusion tend

794
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: to also be the kind that oxygen likes to gobble up,

795
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: for example. So if you do all these calculations, you

796
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: figure out, well, where is this threshold, where's the sun

797
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,479
Speaker 1: become opaque inside of it? And what does that mean

798
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: about the amount of metal inside the sun? You get

799
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: a different number. So from helio seismology, from these sound waves,

800
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: we get the number one point eight percent. Whereas we

801
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: look at the spectrum of light from the sun, we

802
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: got the number one point three percent. So we thought, oh,

803
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: this would be a great way to cross check and

804
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: to just make sure we understand what's in the sun.

805
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: And then it turns out, oops, the numbers don't agree.

806
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 5: Now is that do you think maybe because looking at

807
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 5: the spectrum of the sun only kind maybe tells you

808
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 5: what's in the surface as the sun.

809
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: It is possible, but they've accounted for that. They have

810
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: models for where these things are distributed in the sun

811
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: and how much they would radiate. So there are definitely

812
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: questions there and things people are trying to drill down on,

813
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: but they do think they've accounted for that.

814
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 5: But the second one of the ways seems a little

815
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 5: a bit more circumspect. I guess or more indirect than

816
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,479
Speaker 5: actually just looking at the light from the sun.

817
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: It does in the end, we're always just getting information

818
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: from far away and using that to try to infer

819
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: what's going on and what's happening here is something I

820
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: love in science. It's like, well, let's cross check our

821
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: understanding by seeing if we could do this two different ways,

822
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: making different assumptions, or probing our model in different ways

823
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 1: to see whether it breaks. And this kind of detailed

824
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 1: work has led to crazy discoveries in the past. You know,

825
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: when we, for example, predicted how many neutrinos would be

826
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 1: coming from the Sun versus how many newtrinos we saw

827
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: from the sun, and we saw a huge difference. That

828
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: led to understanding neutrino oscillations and neutrino masses. So not

829
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: every way is going to be as precise, but it's

830
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: important different ways to cross check each other and to

831
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: try to get some hints about what's really going on

832
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 1: inside the sun.

833
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 5: Well, it sounds like we've measured how much metal is

834
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 5: in the sun in two different ways and they disagree

835
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 5: by a pretty big amount, And so let's get into

836
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,919
Speaker 5: what the difference means, who's right, who's wrong, and how

837
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 5: metal is the sun. So let's stick into that, But first,

838
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 5: let's take another quick break.

839
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

840
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

841
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite,

842
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy

843
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

844
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty That's why they're working

845
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

846
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,919
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

847
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

848
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

849
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US dairy

850
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

851
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: the methane from maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

852
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

853
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

854
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

855
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense

856
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,439
Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit

857
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: usdairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

858
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 2: There are chiltern friends and families walking, riding on paths

859
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 2: and the roads every day. Remember they're real people with

860
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,360
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861
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: our cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too.

862
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: Go safely.

863
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 2: California from the California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans.

864
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,960
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865
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,360
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868
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869
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Speaker 5: All right, we're asking how much metal is in the sun,

900
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 5: and it sounds like we have two answers. One way,

901
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 5: by looking at the light from the sun to els

902
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 5: is that it's one point three percent non hydrogen and helium.

903
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 5: But looking at the flow of the plasma and how

904
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 5: the sound waste travel across the service of the Sun,

905
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 5: that tells us that maybe the sun is one point

906
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 5: eight percent non hydrogen and helium. So who's right and

907
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 5: who's wrong.

908
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: We don't know yet, But we have a third answer.

909
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: People came up with yet another way to try to

910
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: figure out how much metal is in the sun, just

911
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 1: asking the sun. Nobody thought of that. Oh my gosh.

912
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: You know, if the Sun really isn't a rock band,

913
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: it's gonna love doing interviews. But this third way actually

914
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: does use neutrinos, because fusion at the heart of the

915
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: sun produces vast, vast quantities of neutrinos, these tiny, little

916
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: ghostly particles that are everwhere, but we can't feel them.

917
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: Because they only have weak interactions. They have no electric charge,

918
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: they have no strong force charge. They're very difficult to spot.

919
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: But we have technologies neutrino eyeballs we've invented to be

920
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: able to pick out a few of these neutrinos. We

921
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: can also measure the energy of those neutrinos. And the

922
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: neutrinos are produced by fusion in the sun, and how

923
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: much metal you have in the sun affects the rate

924
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: at which that fusion happens and also affects the energy

925
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: of the neutrinos that's produced. We're trying to fuse protons

926
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: and protons together. If there's a bunch of heavy metal

927
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: around that actually interferes with the fusion, makes it less likely,

928
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: it makes it more important to have higher energy on

929
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: those protons, et cetera. So the neutrino energy spectrum you

930
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: expect depends on how much metal is in the sun,

931
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: but it's a bit of a weak effect. It's not

932
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: a very strong way to measure this quantity.

933
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 5: Well, also, what do you compare it to, like, how

934
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 5: do you know what the right amount of neutrinos should

935
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 5: be for a certain amount of metals?

936
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, great question. We have a really detailed model of

937
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: the fusion and how it produces neutrinos, and that's been

938
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,919
Speaker 1: the subject of decades of study. And of course first

939
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: there were big mysteries. We predicted a huge amount of neutrinos,

940
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: we only saw a third of them. Later we discovered

941
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: that's because those neutrinos are changing into a another kind

942
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: of neutrino as they travel through space. Check out our

943
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: episode on neutrino oscillation if you want to understand that more.

944
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, there are definitely uncertainties there. These are models

945
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: we have of how the diffusion is happening and how

946
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: the neutrinos are being created, So we don't have an

947
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: absolute calibration of that either. We just have these calculations

948
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: we've done that predict the spectrum. And then those calculations

949
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: depend also on the metal. So you tweak the metals up,

950
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: you get one spectrum. You tweak the metals down, you

951
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: get another spectrum. So we can tweak the amount of

952
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: metals we put into these calculations to match what we see,

953
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: and then we think, well, that's the most likely value

954
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: of the metal in the sun.

955
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 5: So then what does this neutrino method say about the

956
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 5: metals in the sun.

957
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 1: So unfortunately this method isn't super precise. It slightly favors

958
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: the higher metal scenario, so like one point eight percent,

959
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: but it can't rule out the one point three percent.

960
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: It's just sort of more like a hint. It's a

961
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 1: little bit of a vote towards heavy metals.

962
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 5: So then we have three competing methods and they all

963
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 5: say something slightly different. How are we going to figure

964
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 5: out which.

965
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: We're going to dig in and question all of our assumptions,

966
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: understand where we might have overlooked something. We're going to

967
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: do more experiments, collect more data, these neutrino experiments. Specifically,

968
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 1: this is sort of like the first run, the first

969
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: gasp of the data. As that runs longer and longer,

970
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: a little bit more and more precise and maybe sharpen

971
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: our understanding. But this is really crucial that we figure

972
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: this out because the Sun is sort of like our

973
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: yardstick for the rest of the universe. For other stars,

974
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: we have no hope. But like looking at sound waves

975
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: on the surface, we can only look at the light

976
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: from those stars, and we compare the light from those

977
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: stars to the light we get from the Sun, and

978
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: we use that to infer what's in them. Our whole

979
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: estimate for what's out there in the universe is based

980
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,399
Speaker 1: on what's in the sun. If we were wrong about

981
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: what's in the sun, then we were wrong about the

982
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: whole universe.

983
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 5: Well, unless it turns out that these other ways to

984
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 5: measure what's in the sun are wrong, and maybe the

985
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 5: one that you can't apply to other stars is right.

986
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, it could be or it could be that

987
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: we don't understand what's inside the sun and how this

988
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: all works, and they're wrong. Either way, we'd love to

989
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: understand better what's in the sun because it helps us

990
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: understand what's out there in the universe. It also really

991
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: helps us understand the fate of all of those stars.

992
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: Even though the stars are mostly not metal, those metals

993
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: can really influence whether those stars have planets around them,

994
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: how long those stars will live, and how they will die.

995
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 5: Ooh wait, what's the connection between the metals in the

996
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 5: star and their planets?

997
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 1: I knew you wanted to talk about aliens.

998
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 5: Right, No, no, I just ask about the planets. I

999
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 5: had to say anything about aliens. Don't project your alien

1000
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 5: fetish on me.

1001
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 1: Man, Who do you think is living on those planets.

1002
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 5: Man, nobody maybe alg plants, heavy metal bands. Nobody said

1003
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 5: anything about aliens Daniels.

1004
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: All right, well I'm about to okay, get ready. Well,

1005
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: the more metal there is in the initial cloud that

1006
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: forms that solar system, the more metal there's going to

1007
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: be for making planets, And the more metal there is,

1008
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 1: the more likely you are to seed something that's not

1009
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: just the star. You have this huge collapsing cloud. Why

1010
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: doesn't it all just become a star? If some little

1011
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 1: seed near the star can form fast enough to make

1012
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: its own little gravitational well, it can gather up a

1013
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff and get into orbit and avoid collapsing

1014
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 1: into the star. Do that you need a little density seed.

1015
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: And so stars with more metal in them tend to

1016
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: have more planets around them as well, rocky planets and

1017
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 1: giant planets.

1018
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 5: We think, or we know this for sure, like we

1019
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 5: measured this out there.

1020
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: We've measured this out there because we've seen planets around

1021
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: other stars, and so we've seen this correlation. Stars whose

1022
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: light indicates more metal in them also tend to have

1023
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 1: more planets around them.

1024
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 5: So there's a correlation between metlicity and number of planets.

1025
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: Potentially, no that's something we've measured. Of course, we have

1026
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: a bias view of all the planets out there. We

1027
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 1: can't see all the kinds of planets. We're not great

1028
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: at seeing some kinds of planets. We can only see

1029
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 1: planets under certain conditions, et cetera, et cetera. So this

1030
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: is sort of an initial thing, but it's a correlation

1031
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: that we've noticed and also one that makes sense. Right,

1032
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 1: it fits in with our model for householders systems form.

1033
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 5: All right, well, I guess how are we going to

1034
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 5: figure out what's in our sun?

1035
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: Then?

1036
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 5: Is there going to be a conclusive proof at some point?

1037
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 5: Like are we going to be able to maybe dip

1038
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 5: into the sun and get a scoop of it?

1039
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: That would be awesome. We were thinking about sending your

1040
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: band over to visit the sun. Are you guys available?

1041
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:17,280
Speaker 1: Who's your agent?

1042
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,919
Speaker 5: Well, it depends how much are you paying and.

1043
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: What's the budget.

1044
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 5: Will there be green eminems in the green room?

1045
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,879
Speaker 1: I thought it was brown Eminem's in the green room?

1046
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I think the whole point is that

1047
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 5: we get to choose what kind of amms are in

1048
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 5: the waiting room.

1049
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: All right, we'll work on the budget, but it's not

1050
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: something that we are likely to figure out directly. It's

1051
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:41,760
Speaker 1: always going to be a game of improving our models,

1052
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: comparing the model's predictions to what we see out there

1053
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: in the universe, and then seeing if we get it

1054
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:48,720
Speaker 1: to tell a coherence story.

1055
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 5: Could we send something into the sun, like have something

1056
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 5: fall into the Sun and acid falls and gets destroyed

1057
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 5: and maybe tells us what's in the.

1058
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 1: Sun potentially with some technological advances. As I know, you know,

1059
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: our recent Parkers solar probe got pretty close to the

1060
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: Sun but almost got toasted. It's very difficult to even

1061
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 1: get that close to the Sun, and it was nowhere

1062
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 1: near being able to actually sample something. On the other hand,

1063
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: we're sort of already in the Sun in one sense,

1064
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: because where is the edge of the Sun. The Sun

1065
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 1: starts out very dense and like gets more and more dilute.

1066
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: Then it's got this huge extended corona and the wind.

1067
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 1: So we're already sort of sampling stuff from the Sun.

1068
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 1: So it's possible that like the solar wind itself might

1069
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: have clues we can use to figure out what's in

1070
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: the Sun. The energy of those particles could potentially be

1071
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 1: sensitive to the metallicity of the Sun.

1072
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 5: Well, it's kind of interesting that, like, we only have

1073
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 5: one star close to us to be able to run

1074
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 5: these experiments and verify our models of what goes on

1075
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 5: in any star, and so we're sort of hoping that

1076
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 5: our sun is not super atypical or weird.

1077
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And we know that our star is unusual

1078
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: in some sense. It's more massive than your typical star.

1079
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: Most of the stars out there are red dwarfs, but

1080
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: it's also in the sort of unusually good position to

1081
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,959
Speaker 1: sample the average kind of stuff in the Milky Way.

1082
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: We're like halfway from the Milky Way center to the

1083
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: edge of the disc of stars, and most stars out

1084
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: there in the universe are in big galaxies like the

1085
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: Milky Way. So the Sun is sort of a scoop

1086
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: of typical material, we think. So understanding what's in the

1087
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 1: Sun will really help us understand what's in the universe.

1088
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 5: And how heavy metal aliens might be. Isn't that the

1089
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 5: whole point of this episode, Daniel.

1090
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. We were just working up to that one

1091
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: joke the whole time, all right.

1092
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 5: Well, another example of how there are still big mytories

1093
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 5: even in our own heart of the Solar system, the Sun,

1094
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 5: we sort of don't really know what it's actually made

1095
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 5: out of, and even though it's so close, we can

1096
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 5: actually go in there and figure it out ourselves directly.

1097
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 5: We have to find all these clever ways to infer

1098
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 5: what's inside the Sun, and.

1099
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: These basic questions about what's in our own backyard affect

1100
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: the whole universe. They tell us what's likely to be

1101
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: out there in the universe and also how it all

1102
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: will end. Stars with more metal in them are more

1103
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: likely to form neutron stars rather than black holes, and

1104
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 1: so the fate of all those stars we see up

1105
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: there in the night sky could depend on these measurements

1106
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: of what's in our backyard.

1107
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 5: We hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us. See

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00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 5: you next tent.

1109
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 1: For more science and curiosity, come find us on social

1110
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 1: media where we answer questions and post videos. We're on Twitter, Discord, Instant,

1111
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: and now TikTok. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel

1112
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio.

1113
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1114
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. When you

1115
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: pop a piece of cheese into your mouth. You're probably

1116
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: not thinking about the iron mental impact, but the people

1117
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 1: in the dairy industry are. That's why they're working hard

1118
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: every day to find new ways to reduce waste, conserve

1119
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 1: natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. House US

1120
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 1: dairy tackling greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors to

1121
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: turn the methane from manure into renewable energy that can

1122
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: power farms, towns, and electric cars. Visit you as dairy

1123
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 1: dot COM's last sustainability to learn more.

1124
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 3: Vitamin water was born in New York because New Yorkers

1125
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,799
Speaker 3: wanted more flavor to pair with all the amazing food.

1126
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: In the city. Vitamin water is so New York.

1127
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 3: It's three favorite cheeses, car chopped cheese, bacon, egg and cheese,

1128
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 3: and a slice of cheese.

1129
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 5: Pizza.

1130
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: Drink vitamin water. It's from New York.

1131
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 2: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on paths

1132
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,439
Speaker 2: and roads every day. Remember they're real people with loved

1133
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 2: ones who need them to.

1134
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 1: Get home safely.

1135
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 2: Protect our cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too, Go safely.

1136
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 2: California from the California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans