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Speaker 1: You're listening to an Airwave media podcast.

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Speaker 3: I remember one of your best players got injured, but

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Speaker 3: not like on a play or anything.

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Speaker 4: He got injured celebrating a play. And it's not like

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Speaker 4: it was a game winning play or in the playoffs

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Speaker 4: and he.

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Speaker 3: Was out the rest of the season because he was

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Speaker 3: injured while celebrating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Hi, everybody, and welcome to Gooded What Now the history

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Speaker 5: podcast That's not True History Class with me, your host

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Speaker 5: Katie Child, and your course history fangs and readers of books.

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Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, so.

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Speaker 6: Baby and I we have been so and someone has.

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Speaker 1: Been very excited about this week's episode and demanded it

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Speaker 1: to be my co host for it. Yeah, so, what

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Speaker 1: are we going to talk about today?

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Speaker 5: And forty elephants who are an all girl gang crime

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Speaker 5: syndicate in London.

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Speaker 4: It is fantastic because.

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Speaker 5: We support women's rights, but more importantly we support women's

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Speaker 5: yes when it's wrongs.

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Speaker 4: Good job we practiced that, didn't we practice it? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: We were so proud.

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Speaker 5: Basically Oh sorry, okay, yeah, you're confided to me.

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Speaker 1: There you go.

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Speaker 5: Sorry, I had to turn the microphone so it was

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Speaker 5: facing baby here.

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Speaker 4: Would you like to be a girl? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Girl gang crime syndicate. A girl gang crime syndicate in London.

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Speaker 1: Where's London?

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Speaker 4: Wait?

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Speaker 5: You know what kind of it's kind of where Papa lives.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's where.

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Speaker 1: Papa always sends us postcards from because that's where he

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Speaker 1: goes on his holidays.

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Speaker 4: You got to that. Yeah, you've got postcards.

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Speaker 1: From the Transport Museum and.

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Speaker 5: From all of the West Ham football matches he goes to.

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Speaker 5: Well that's why, that's why Bubba has all those strips

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Speaker 5: football strips.

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Speaker 6: And you remember you go on with your name on it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 6: so you coz you under the covers. So my bed

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Speaker 6: is currently covered in what now? What are these dinosaurs?

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Speaker 4: Dinosaurs?

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Speaker 5: Because Bubba wasn't feeling well and what was he comes

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Speaker 5: into me and he goes, Mummy, don't be mad, and

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Speaker 5: I'm like.

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Speaker 4: What did you do?

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Speaker 5: Obviously, and he's like, I was sick in your bed,

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Speaker 5: all right, and he'd like vomited.

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Speaker 4: Like all over my bed.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, okay, it looks like I'm changing

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Speaker 1: the colors. And then he wanted to be in beside me.

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Speaker 1: So now I have dinosaur beding on my bed.

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Speaker 5: So will I tell you all about the forty elephants?

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Speaker 1: But I.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So we're also called the forty thieves now.

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Speaker 4: The reason.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So the reason they were called forty elephants was

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Speaker 1: because they were from an area.

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Speaker 5: In London called Elephant and Castle. Elephant and Castle, yeah,

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Speaker 5: it used to be.

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Speaker 4: Elephant and Castle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So it used to be very I want to

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Speaker 1: say dangerous, because like I think even up until the

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Speaker 1: eighties there was like gangs and stuff there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it used to be like a dangerous place.

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Speaker 5: But now it's pretty affluent because gentrification, that's right. Vival

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Speaker 5: a revolution, baby, As much as I would love a revolution, unfortunately,

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Speaker 5: when when things like that happen, it's usually the weakest

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Speaker 5: and the disenfranchised and the impoverished people in society who

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Speaker 5: suffer the most, So we really need to think of

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Speaker 5: a better way of doing it. But I do appreciate

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Speaker 5: the fervor in which you are anti.

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Speaker 1: Establishing your babies. And I know what you're thinking. You're thinking,

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Speaker 1: quit your gibber jabber in fact me, in fact you

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Speaker 1: I will.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, it does say for you it's a good job.

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Speaker 4: So but of.

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Speaker 1: Course first we have to get source on okay, So

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Speaker 1: the first thing we have is Alice Diamond and the

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Speaker 1: Forty Elephants by Brian McDonald.

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Speaker 4: Then of course we have articles.

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Speaker 5: From The Guardian and Glamor. There was an elephant in

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Speaker 5: Castle gang, but it was all men and unfortunately, originally

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Speaker 5: the women would be part of, you know, the men's syndicate.

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Speaker 5: They would be working for them and they would do

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Speaker 5: bits and bobs, but you know, that usually meant they

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Speaker 5: still had.

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Speaker 4: Lack of agency.

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Speaker 5: But then the women sort of branched out on their

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Speaker 5: own and they became a gang on their own right.

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Speaker 5: I'd like to see this as a kind of feminist movement.

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Speaker 1: So they were looking after themselves, they were self sufficient

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Speaker 1: and as far as we know, the first mention of

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Speaker 1: the gang was in like the eighteen sixties, so like

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Speaker 1: we're in the Victorian era.

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Speaker 4: And so even though the first.

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Speaker 5: Like official documentation we have of them.

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Speaker 1: Is like the eighteen sixties, it's generally believed that they

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Speaker 1: were in existence from like the late seventeen hundreds. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like the Industrial Revolution and such. Now do you

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Speaker 1: want to go to the side?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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Speaker 1: So basically I had this like alliance with the Elephant

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Speaker 1: and Castle Mob, which was like men, women, children, you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody they could kind of get their cubby little hands

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Speaker 1: on the possis.

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Speaker 4: So the forty Elephants Gang.

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Speaker 5: So they were thieves.

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Speaker 1: And what I don't understand, baby, is that we haven't

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Speaker 1: had a movie about these people. You did, baby, When

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Speaker 1: you were baby, there was a movie about them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Well that's a shame because I haven't seen it.

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Speaker 4: You did, yes?

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Speaker 1: And then baby, baby, Baby, are you thinking about Ocean eight?

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Speaker 4: Ya? Okay, it's an all girl.

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Speaker 5: Gang who steal things exact.

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Speaker 4: But don't steal things. That's not nice.

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Speaker 1: But there was a special place in my heart for

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Speaker 1: heist movies.

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Speaker 4: I love a good Heights movie, so I would love.

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Speaker 1: Anything to do with this. So, like I was looking

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Speaker 1: this up, and there's like no movies about these people,

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Speaker 1: and there's no or Like, there was talks of a movie,

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Speaker 1: and then there was talks of a TV show, Like

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Speaker 1: I was looking this up and apparently there was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be a sort of Peaky Blinders esque show about

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Speaker 1: the forty Elephants and it was supposed to be coming

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Speaker 1: into fruition, but that didn't happen. And then there's.

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Speaker 4: Talks of a movie.

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Speaker 1: But like, someone get Jim at Arterton on this, because

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Speaker 1: if anybody's going to make this movie, it's gonna be her.

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Speaker 1: Get Kira Nightley involved. She loves playing characters that aren't

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Speaker 1: nice housewives. What made the forty Elephants Gang so different

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Speaker 1: than every other gang is it not only was it

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Speaker 1: comprised of women, but its leader was a.

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Speaker 3: Woman, Fascal Mary Carr, who is a former artist model.

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Speaker 4: She takes the help.

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Speaker 1: So you've got this time where men are running fucking everything.

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Speaker 1: They've got the social, economic, and political structures, but they're.

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Speaker 4: Also running the underbelly of London.

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Speaker 7: And although women were involved with like for example, the

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Speaker 7: Elephant Castle Mob, they were you know, only used for

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Speaker 7: bits here and there. Even though the forty Elephants Gang existed, it.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't really know it's very sort of slim pickings, and

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Speaker 1: it exists mainly as an alliance aside part.

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Speaker 4: To the Elephant and Castle Mob.

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Speaker 1: You know, But when Mary Carr enters the scene in

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Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds, that's when they start to get

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Speaker 1: a little bit notorious.

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Speaker 4: Mary Carr.

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Speaker 3: She's born, so Mary Carr, her father is this international

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Speaker 3: thief and forger of bonds.

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Speaker 1: So she grows up surrounded by crime. And let's we

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Speaker 1: forget this is one of.

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Speaker 3: The poorest areas of London, and Mary, like the majority

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Speaker 3: of the members in these gangs, grew up in a

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Speaker 3: life of poverty.

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Speaker 4: And she has a choice. Can she do the regular things?

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Speaker 1: Does she beg does she get a menial job in

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Speaker 1: a factory.

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Speaker 4: Does she sell her body on the streets?

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Speaker 1: Mary takes a look at those options and goes, fuck

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Speaker 1: this for a game of soldiers. And by the age

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Speaker 1: of fourteen she already has a string of convictions. Because

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Speaker 1: you get to start somewhere, you're gonna get caught. Initially,

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Speaker 1: like you know, the forty Elephants are so closely aligned

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Speaker 1: with the Elephant and Castle gang, she ends up becoming

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Speaker 1: the queen.

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Speaker 4: She is the mob queen. Oh yes, love.

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Speaker 1: It mob queens, so so she becomes the first queen

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Speaker 1: of the forty Thieves forty Elephants because she's so infamous

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Speaker 1: for fencing. So like she's very good at selling stolen property,

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Speaker 1: Like she makes these connections, she's networking and she's good

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Speaker 1: at organizing shit, so throughout her career, so she continues

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Speaker 1: his career of crime.

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Speaker 4: And she changes her name here and there to like

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Speaker 4: Molly Men and Polly.

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Speaker 5: Car And by nineteen oh three she was known internationally

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Speaker 5: so with police reports calling Car.

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Speaker 1: The notorious Polycar, one of the most dangerous women in

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Speaker 1: the London metropolis and Queen of the forty. So she

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Speaker 1: would basically run the gang between like prison sentences until

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Speaker 1: her suspected death in nineteen twenty four. Joining the forty

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Speaker 1: was aspirational for women of the time because it really

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Speaker 1: broke social status because the women who became hoisters, who

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Speaker 1: became thieves, they were going to be able to support themselves.

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Speaker 4: They weren't going to have to rely on men to

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Speaker 4: support them because they were going to be able to

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Speaker 4: have independent wealth.

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Speaker 1: So the women were generally known as hoysters instead of

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Speaker 1: just like thieves or shoplifters because they were seen as professionals.

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Speaker 1: Quite a lot of them just avoided being arrested. They

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Speaker 1: managed to evade capture and they have like a bunch

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Speaker 1: of different aliases. They had fucking options also. In addition, furthermore,

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Speaker 1: the women who were joining this gang, who are trying

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Speaker 1: to claim.

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Speaker 3: This hoister status are generally they're already suffering economic hardship.

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Speaker 1: They're in the fucking guts of London and nobody gives

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Speaker 1: a fly and fuck about them. Yeah, they're gonna do

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Speaker 1: what they need to do. Oh you're hoping, would that baby?

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Speaker 1: How many how many hands does this lady have?

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Speaker 4: Look three?

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Speaker 8: So have three hands?

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Speaker 1: We'll see one of them's pretend which one is? Pretend

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Speaker 1: this one?

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Speaker 4: This one here?

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Speaker 1: See this is the pretend hand.

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Speaker 8: So basically doesn't get that hand off. Yeah, okay, where

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Speaker 8: say time and you tell your hand see your things

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Speaker 8: from stump stops, that's right. And sometimes they have a

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Speaker 8: secret bag. It was selling air hosscott.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so they were able to sort of pill for

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Speaker 1: things by grabbing it with their hand and popping it

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Speaker 1: in their in there and they'll say, so that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things they would do. See. The good thing

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Speaker 1: about at the time is sort of in this period,

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Speaker 1: like in the sort of still Victorian era, turn of

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Speaker 1: the century.

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Speaker 5: So like initially they would be like stuffing things.

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Speaker 1: Under their bustles because they were offered more privacy, so

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Speaker 1: shopkeepers wouldn't be looking at them as they were going around.

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Speaker 8: Ay when he's peen.

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Speaker 5: Kay, yes, yes, yes, like that like like not watching

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Speaker 5: people pee privacy.

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Speaker 9: Yes, So.

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Speaker 1: Because the women would be in the shop. Back in

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Speaker 1: that time, it was sort of rude or not very

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Speaker 1: nice to watch somebody was very impolite. It wasn't the

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Speaker 1: done thing in society. So women were afforded a little

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Speaker 1: bit more privacy, so they weren't being watched and made

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Speaker 1: it easier for them to swipe bits and pieces, grab

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Speaker 1: to grab it, to kind of take it like that

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Speaker 1: exactly like that swiping movement.

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Speaker 4: Something you can have it if you just exercise.

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Speaker 5: Okay, thank you for doing yoga right now during this

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Speaker 5: recording session. So it got to the point by the

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Speaker 5: turn of the century that it was said a group

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Speaker 5: of them could effectively strip a store in just an hour.

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Speaker 5: Another thing they did, which was very clever, is because

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Speaker 5: women tend to go unnoticed, especially lower class women, so

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Speaker 5: they would pretend to be a household maid, go into

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Speaker 5: a house and just take the family's valuables. So even

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Speaker 5: though the ladies would would shoplift.

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Speaker 4: Jewels and clothes and furs.

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, but they would never wear any of them

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Speaker 1: because like stolen goods, wearing it was it was against

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Speaker 1: the rules. So they fold this thing.

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Speaker 5: Called the Hoisters Code, which was like a code of conduct,

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Speaker 5: which is fantastic.

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Speaker 4: So the girls would basically work in packs. So like

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Speaker 4: I've heard it referred to as like.

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Speaker 1: A military operation, like they used battlefield tactics.

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Speaker 4: But the people who say this tend to be men

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Speaker 4: and can't understand that.

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Speaker 1: Clearly, you have never seen a woman that you organize

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Speaker 1: a family planner like, oh, I have seen.

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Speaker 4: Some ridiculously beautifully organized shit, My.

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Speaker 1: The girl's gone right now, she's not the room. I've

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Speaker 1: seen some glorious, glorious stuff. But yeah, so I'm not

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Speaker 1: surprised that we're well organized.

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Speaker 4: So how they would do it.

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Speaker 1: They would break down into like these groups of four

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Speaker 1: or five, and each of these groups would be given

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Speaker 1: like a patch they were allocated, so they would cover

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Speaker 1: this for a period of time before moving on to

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Speaker 1: the next one. And they would do reconnaissance. So they

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Speaker 1: would be like watching, you know, the department stores. They

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Speaker 1: would pay attention to like new members of staff coming

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Speaker 1: in or people going on, when their breaks would be,

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Speaker 1: and what times deliveries.

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Speaker 4: Came in, so on and so forth, when it was busier,

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Speaker 4: when it was quiet.

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Speaker 1: Like they took it all down because they knew that,

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Speaker 1: you know, people were catching on eventually. Instead they'll gone

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Speaker 1: full on artful dodger and just like knicking stuff. What

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Speaker 1: they would do is they would use their re trainees,

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Speaker 1: their wee nubies as a distraction.

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Speaker 4: They'd be a decoy misdirection like Penn and teller, so

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Speaker 4: I love Pendella, I don't care anywhere.

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Speaker 1: So basically they'd get the way newbies to act really

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Speaker 1: fucking suspicious and they'd.

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Speaker 4: Be like, we need to see this general the light

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Speaker 4: of day, and you know other shit like.

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Speaker 1: That, just generally kind of acting a wee bit dodgy

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Speaker 1: just enough to distract.

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Speaker 4: Like the clerk or whatever.

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Speaker 1: So they would do this so the more experience and

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Speaker 1: they could go around and just start filling their pockets.

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Speaker 1: And but cleverly enough, they didn't just use the newbies

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Speaker 1: for this. They would use the proper veterans too, because

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Speaker 1: like the veteran thieves, they would be more well known,

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Speaker 1: so shop assistance and security and whatever kind of security

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Speaker 1: they had would be more likely to follow them around.

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Speaker 4: You know, because they're expecting them to you know, try

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Speaker 4: and nike shit. So while they're being followed around.

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Speaker 1: Their lesser non accomplices were able to slip jewels and

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Speaker 1: silks into hidden pockets in their dresses.

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Speaker 4: You say there's no honor amongst thieves, Well that's bullshit.

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Speaker 1: There's probably no honor amongst like competing thieves, but if

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Speaker 1: you're allied, generally, it's more of a it is more

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Speaker 1: of a camaraderie and more of a and also, you know,

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Speaker 1: snitches get stitches, bitches.

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Speaker 4: So there was a hoisters code, so basically the rule

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Speaker 4: of thieves. So like straight off the bat, you.

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Speaker 1: Can't fraternize or work with the police because obviously because

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Speaker 1: that's a conflict of interest.

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Speaker 4: Clearly, then of course you've got you.

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Speaker 1: Can't go like drinking or partying the night before a

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Speaker 1: big job because you know, you gotta keep your wits

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Speaker 1: about you, and you can't wear anything.

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Speaker 4: That's hot, like you cannot wear any of the stolen

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Speaker 4: like jewels or fars or whatever the else. Fuck they

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Speaker 4: had to be fenced. You could not be having that.

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Speaker 4: By the turn of the century, the forty Elephants really

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Speaker 4: reaches its peak and the leaders are they are at

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Speaker 4: the height of everything. They're so gorgeous and glamorous.

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Speaker 1: Like I would love to say, oh see this is

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Speaker 1: you could make a perfect anthology series about this.

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Speaker 4: No, no, okay, so so yeah.

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Speaker 1: I read about nineteen sixteen. You have Alice Diamond, also

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Speaker 1: known as Diamond Annie.

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Speaker 4: But she had like a bunch of Alixes as well.

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Speaker 1: She was known as Dolly Blake, Alice Blake, so on

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Speaker 1: and so forth.

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Speaker 3: But she was called Diamond Annie because one her real surname.

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Speaker 1: Was diamond and also because she wore a slew of

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Speaker 1: diamond rings on her hands, so when she punched you,

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Speaker 1: you would be embossed with the marks of the gemstones. Also,

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Speaker 1: diamonds are really hard, and I would not suggest being

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Speaker 1: punged with them.

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Speaker 4: It is not pleasant. Don't ask how why? No, We're

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Speaker 4: just gonna move on. And it was like the police

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Speaker 4: who named her Diamond.

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Speaker 1: Annie because she would get into fights with the Diamond Annie.

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Speaker 1: She grew up her parents were criminals, so she too

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Speaker 1: was a criminal. Because this is just how it works.

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Speaker 1: It's society diamond. Annie is often referred to as for medival.

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Speaker 4: You see, she was like five eight.

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Speaker 1: Five nine, and this is at a time where most

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Speaker 1: men were five six, so she already had like a

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Speaker 1: dominating presence. So when Mary Carr apparently dies in nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty four, everyone is quite happy for Annie to take over,

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Speaker 1: and she sort of just adopts the original style.

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Speaker 4: She continues it, but just evolves it.

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Speaker 1: Really, so they still have their cells working in different

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Speaker 1: parts of London, creating a sort of network, and it

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Speaker 1: sort of spreads a little bit Overbritain, over like the

359
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Speaker 1: rest of Britain as well, but like mainly it's it's

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Speaker 1: contembrated in London because Den's population, more shops, more options,

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Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So under the rule of

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Speaker 1: a Ani like they flourish, They fucking flourish.

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Speaker 4: And like for the most part, when.

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Speaker 1: Any of the themes were caught, it was only for

365
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Speaker 1: like small thefts, and they served barely anytime, and they

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Speaker 1: were they were sort of tried as like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is just a random shoplifter, this isn't like a gang.

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Speaker 4: And so their sentences would be like pretty short and

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Speaker 4: they would just be able to get out and they'd

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Speaker 4: just go back to the gang again.

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Speaker 1: Like this is where it kind of gets glamorous, and

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Speaker 1: what I say glamorous, like glamorous as glamorous as it

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Speaker 1: can be for inner.

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Speaker 4: City London during a horrific period of time. Like one

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Speaker 4: of the reasons why we're so.

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Speaker 1: Obsessed with the nineteen twenties was because either fucking side

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Speaker 1: of it.

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Speaker 4: We have pure horror.

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Speaker 1: Like that's why the whole concept of this we just

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Speaker 1: grasp onto it with both hands.

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Speaker 4: But anyway, I digress. Also in addition, furthermore, Annie decides.

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Speaker 1: To step things up weep it so like in the

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00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: sort of flurry of the nineteen twenties and the Roaring twenties.

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Speaker 4: She decides to really use this to their advantage.

385
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Speaker 1: So by this time, the gangs, like especially the more

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Speaker 1: experienced members, they would be dressing in finery, furs, silks, gowns,

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00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 1: jewels they had at all, And so they decided to

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Speaker 1: use the patriarchy against itself and.

389
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 4: Used blackmail to turn a profit. So they would.

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Speaker 1: Seduce the higher class men, the upper crust of society

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Speaker 1: and would use this as a bargaining chip, so they

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Speaker 1: would extort money, they would use it for to avoid convictions,

393
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 1: to make evidence go away, and to call in favors.

394
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Speaker 4: Whenever they needed them. Because you didn't want to mess

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Speaker 4: with the forty elephants, because.

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Speaker 1: These are hardened women who came for me nothing. You

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00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 1: do not want to mess with these ladies. Gordeous, gorgeous girls,

398
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: do what has to be done. So so the forty

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00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 1: they become known for their style because they're you know,

400
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 1: because they're style, they're decadent, they have excess, they're trendy

401
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 1: as hell, and they throw the best parties.

402
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 4: Okay, that's it. If if things go well with this podcast.

403
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 1: Okay, if things go well with the pod and things

404
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: really start moving and COVID is in the bin, who

405
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 1: knows when, but when COVID is.

406
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 4: In the bin, because eventually it's gonna be in the bin.

407
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 4: It's gonna become manageable, like the flu. It has to

408
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 4: like eventually. But but.

409
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna hold a forty thieves party. I'm gonna invite

410
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Speaker 1: thirty nine people. I'm gonna invite thirty nine women.

411
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 3: No, I might well, actually yeah, I'm gonna throw a

412
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 3: forty thieves party.

413
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 4: If things go well, worst case scenario will.

414
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: Other GoFundMe or something, and we'll book out some weird

415
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: nineteen twenties style building and we'll have a fucking party.

416
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 4: Yes, love it. I'm very excited that I've excited myself

417
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 4: on a cam. I love thieves. I love thieves and

418
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Speaker 4: hoysters and uh heists. I love heists.

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Speaker 1: So basically it's mainly Diamond Annie who really reinforces this

420
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Speaker 1: hoyster's code.

421
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 4: She really really leans into this hoyster's code.

422
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: So there's this stuff a side before, but no frantnizing

423
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Speaker 1: with like no working with the police, no drinking before

424
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Speaker 1: a job, so.

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00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 4: On and so forth. But also it outlines how the

426
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 4: gang operates as well, so like.

427
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: It, even though Annie is the mob queen, it's really democratic,

428
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,719
Speaker 1: so like there's an equal division of like money from

429
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: this the loop from a heist. They had pre arranged

430
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: alibis for each other so that they could you know,

431
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: cover each other's tracks and the gang. What the gang

432
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Speaker 1: would do is if a.

433
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 3: Member was like arrested in prison or whatever, the gang

434
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 3: would support and care for the family members of, you know,

435
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 3: the convicted person of the imprisoned thief, and the guidelines

436
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 3: were very strictly enforced because.

437
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 4: You would be shamed if you broke any of these rules.

438
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 4: And not only would you be shamed, you would get

439
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 4: the shit kicked out of you.

440
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: They would beat you up. Like in this little cluster.

441
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: You do not want to be the person who fox up,

442
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: absolutely not. So not only this, there was all these

443
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: other rules, so like like this is where the honor

444
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: amongst thieves comes into it.

445
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 4: It's like you do not shag or steal another member's

446
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 4: like boyfriend, husband, things like that. And you also do

447
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 4: not steal their fucking money, Like that's not an option.

448
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 4: Don't do that. That makes you a dick.

449
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: Also, in addition, furthermore, the forty Thieves, they had a

450
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: group treasury, like the treasury, and it was kind of

451
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: like a petty cash, so like if someone was in

452
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: trouble and they needed money quick, they would help them out.

453
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 3: But it was also used to like pay for like

454
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 3: solicitors and lawyers and stuff, so their legal fees effectively

455
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 3: would be covered by the gang. Yeah, so Annie also

456
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 3: had a way of dealing with like interlovers. So if

457
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 3: you were not part of the forty Thieves gang and

458
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 3: you were on their.

459
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: Turf and you were hoistering, pickpocketing, et cetera, et cetera.

460
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: You had two choices, like they would be. You would

461
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 1: either pay like a fee you would get like you know,

462
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: they would they take a cup. Right, you could either

463
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: give them a cup or they could beat seven bills

464
00:26:55,359 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 1: or shit out you. Yeah yeah, so ah, So.

465
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 4: Like this gang were really brutal.

466
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: They were as brutal was any of the male gangs

467
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: of the era. But like the newspapers of the time,

468
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: they just kept pumping out.

469
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 4: Like kind of like fluff pieces.

470
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, these bad young things the girl just

471
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: patty girls of the era, like it's all that kind

472
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: of shit.

473
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 4: But it's but I would not want to piss off

474
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 4: Diamondanna or any of those girls. Mm mmmm mmmm. The

475
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 4: glamor was like.

476
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: A goal and an illusion, so it was aspirational, but

477
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: it was also a distraction.

478
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 4: So because they were seen as being.

479
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: These beautiful letters and huh that's so fancy, it really

480
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: helped them, but it also helped distract from.

481
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 4: Absolute shit they were throwing about, like.

482
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: Like how bloody they were, like how bloody tough and

483
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: aggressive they were, Like oh, but because like they so

484
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: are constantly writing about this gang, the better known of

485
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: the forty Elephants. They're recognized, especially within London, so they

486
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: start expanding out. With Diamond Annie, she had some control issues,

487
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: Like it's good she kept everything organized, but it got

488
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: to a point where she was micro managing everything and

489
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: as we know, that is not a good place to be.

490
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: The thing about the Hoysters code is it was basically

491
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: like my layer of the Highway when it comes to

492
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: Annie and a member married a man that she didn't

493
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: approve of.

494
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 4: In nineteen twenty five, she leads the gang in this bloody, brutal.

495
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: Assault against the newlyweds, right, and it basically turns into

496
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: the Lambeth Riot. And because, like Diamond, Annie instigated this,

497
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: she ends up in prison for like a year and

498
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: a half and by.

499
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 4: The time she comes out, a new queen's taking over.

500
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: So Annie's like, right, okay, fine, and she she doesn't

501
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: quite get the heck At a dodge, she decides to

502
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: do the most logical step and manages a brothel.

503
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 4: So there she is running this house of ill repute,

504
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 4: but she's also teaching aspiring young thieves.

505
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 3: So like one of the girls who's like under her tutelage,

506
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 3: Shirley Pitts ends up becoming a queen by like the

507
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 3: nineteen sixties, but the gang ends up with like a

508
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 3: smaller operation that.

509
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: Changes different stuff because like fashions are changing and it's

510
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: more difficult to like hide shit in your dresses when

511
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: you know, miniskirts come into fashion, and then of course

512
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: you've got.

513
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 4: Like surveillance cameras and all that comes into it.

514
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: Membership for the gang had been sort of declining steadily,

515
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: so by nineteen into two, when Shirley Pitts dies, the

516
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: forty Elephants becomes officially.

517
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 4: Disbanded, and by the time you know, she does pass,

518
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 4: the Forty Elephants gang is treated like a folk.

519
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: Legend instead of you know what it was, which was

520
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: an actual threat. So like well, mail gangs will like

521
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: start and end and grow up and die around them,

522
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: like between.

523
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 4: Car and Diamond.

524
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: The Forty Elephants was one of the most successful and

525
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: longest running criminal syndicates in English history.

526
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 4: Ah, and that is the story of the Forty Elephants.

527
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: When we learned today, we learned that if you want

528
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: to chop down right, get a woman to do it.

529
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: When society puts up barriers and restrictions on the lower

530
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: rungs and members of society. Sometimes they have no option

531
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,479
Speaker 1: but to break the rules. If you like my we're

532
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: telling of this hell of these girl gangsters, feel free

533
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: to rate and review five stars on at the podcasts

534
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: and also you can review on Spotify now.

535
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 8: So five stars get as five the skies.

536
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, thank you forget. You can follow me

537
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: on many of the social media's on Instagram and TikTok,

538
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: I am who did What New pod? And on Twitter

539
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: i am who did What New?

540
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 4: Pd? Because there wasn't enough characters.

541
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 3: And if you're thinking, wow, I want to follow you

542
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 3: on social media and interact with you, bring up your engagement,

543
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 3: but I also want to like rate and review five stars.

544
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 4: Or maybe you have done that and you're thinking what

545
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 4: can I do? I want to give more?

546
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: Well, what you can do is go over to Patreon

547
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: dot com slash who did What Now Pod and join

548
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: one of the tiers.

549
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 4: And get some fan stuff.

550
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: Or if you want to do like a one time donation,

551
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: you can always go to go to PayPal dot com and.

552
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 4: It's who Did What Now Pod at gmail dot com.

553
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 9: So, yeah, I really want a forty Thieves like TV

554
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 9: show because I feel like you could really do a

555
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 9: really good anthology and really give I really portray these

556
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 9: women well, give them a fully fleshed out story, make

557
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 9: them well rounded characters, and also feature.

558
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,719
Speaker 4: Lots of amazing heists. I love me heists, love them

559
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 4: so much.

560
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: I won it so match and now it's ten for recommendations,

561
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: So for reading, I am going to recommend Modern Women

562
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: on Trial Sexual Transgression in the Age of the Flower

563
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: by Lucy Bland. For watching, I know some of you

564
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: may have Star Wars fatigue, but it's got Migna when

565
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: in it?

566
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 4: What else do you need? And for listening, I've been listening. No,

567
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 4: you know what, what have I been listening to? Okay,

568
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 4: I've been listening to the Tic Tick Boom soundtrack. Okay.

569
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: And that I've done that, I'm going to bid you farewell,

570
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: so adios or we desend my friends.

571
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 4: Bye bye bye