1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, Welcome back to Killers amongst Us, 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. The disappearance of 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: a beautiful young barista, Samantha Koneg. She vanishes into thin 4 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: air and into sub zero temperatures. Joining us to help 5 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: crack the case. Investigative reporter Casey grow from Alaska and 6 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: FBI special agent Bobby Chicone, who's actually in on the 7 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: FBI investigation, joining us to analyze the clues left behind. 8 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, and 9 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned La psychoanalysts. As you know by now, 10 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: a major break occurs in the hunt for Samantha and 11 00:00:54,480 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: her kidnapper. Investigators tracking Samantha's debit card across the country. 12 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: Detectives were kind of shocked because there was a withdrawal 13 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: from an ATM in Wilcox, Arizona. Then there was another 14 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: withdrawal in Lordsburg, New Mexico. The next withdrawal was March 15 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: tenth in Humble, Texas. Nancy Grace Killers amongst Us, Eighteen 16 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 1: year old Samantha Sammy Coning vanishes on a Wednesday night 17 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: from her coffee stand workplace surveillance video shows an armed 18 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: man dressed all in black forcing her out of the 19 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: coffee shop. What happened this little girl? Samantha goes missing 20 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: in the cold night air of Alaska. At this time, 21 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: after the ransom note comes in, the devastated father up 22 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: the reward from twelve thousand, five hundred to forty one 23 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Forty one thousand dollars. He ups the reward 24 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: and still no one can identify where is Samantha Koenik 25 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: until a break in the case. A ransom note with 26 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: a frea key photo of Samantha, her hair obviously done 27 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: by your kidnapper in braids, with the chilling words ain't 28 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: cheap party written underneath. And another fact to Cheryl McCollum 29 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: is he didn't hide this. He actually posted it on 30 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: the bulletin board, the photo of Samantha underneath the missing 31 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: dog Albert Flyer. He wanted people to see Samantha in distress. 32 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: What about that, Cheryl? Of course, Nancy, the focus was 33 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: not about the money. The focus is about her and 34 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: every detail that he's selected personally is even more sinister. 35 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: The fact that he would use the phrase ain't she 36 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: Pardy kind act like, Oh, I'm ignorant, I'm a hill village, 37 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: when that's probably not the case. The fact that he 38 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: would choose any newspaper he wanted, but he selected the 39 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: date the thirteenth, like it's bad luck for her. Everything 40 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: he's doing, from the scheme mass to being an All 41 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: Blacks to hiding it under the picture of a dog, 42 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: because that's about what she's worked him. She's a doll, 43 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: She ain't nothing. Everything is telling you a story from him, 44 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: and I'm telling you he's watching the news. He knows 45 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: all the principal players, and he's playing a game police, community, family, 46 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: her father on edge, and a race against time. Really, 47 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: could they get the money to the purpose, could they 48 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: find the purp? Could they save Samantha? In the midst 49 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: of this a bizarre twist in the case, there were 50 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: three withdrawals in the city of Anchorage of five hundred 51 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: dollars the daily limit in all of the ATM situations 52 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: where he was using the debit card. As soon as 53 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: the alerts came, we dispatched law enforcement there as quickly 54 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: as we could, but there were literally minutes behind him. 55 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: Then the account went silent, and on March seventh, detectives 56 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: were kind of shocked because there was a withdrawal from 57 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: an ATM in Wilcox, Arizona. Then there was another withdrawal 58 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: in Lordsburg, New Mexico. The next withdrawal was March tenth 59 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: in Humble, Texas, and then shortly after there was a 60 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: withdrawal in Shepherd, Texas. Each time this money was withdrawn, 61 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 1: it was withdrawn by a person wearing a mask. In 62 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: the ATM video footage, we're able to see footage of 63 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 1: the vehicle to suspect is driving, and we're able to 64 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: determine that it's a white Ford focus traveling East Fountain. 65 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: Just hearing from our friends at Oxygen, that gave me 66 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: chills all on my arms and legs straight out to 67 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, joining me, 68 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: Dotor Bethany Marshall, Casey Grove, John Limley, and FBI special 69 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: agent Bobby Chicken. Cheryl, you know why because that means 70 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: at the very best, he the kidnapper is on the 71 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: run with Samantha, and we also know which way he's going. 72 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: He is now far away from home, apparently holding her 73 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: a hostage in the car. We've got an eye on 74 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: a white Ford escort, but he's gone from Anchorage to Wilcox, Arizona, 75 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: to Lord's Burden, New Mexico, Humble Texas, Shepherd Texas. They 76 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: are on him, but that has got to send chills 77 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: down Samantha's father's spine. This guy is on the run 78 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: with his daughter. What is she enduring? Maybe this is 79 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 1: what we call a money tree. Not only do we 80 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: know the directions, we have his actual location in real time, 81 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: so we not only know where he's at, we know 82 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: how fast he's traveling with her. And another thing we 83 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: know Doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned California's psychoanalyst. This guy is 84 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: no idiot, no idiot at all, because he wears a 85 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: mask when he goes to the ATM. He knows her 86 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: ATM card Samantha is gonna hit and they're gonna pull 87 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: that video and they still can't get an idea on him. 88 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: He's outsmarting not only the cops, but no offense. Bobby 89 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: Chicon the FBI, Well, Nancy, this is what we call 90 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: a spree, right, a crime spree where there's extraordinary energy 91 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: put into withdrawing money from all these ATMs. What I 92 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: would worry about at this point from a psychological perspective. 93 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: Is he high? Is he using amphetamine? Is he in 94 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: a manic state? Is he fragmented? You know, he's very 95 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:18,239 Speaker 1: methodical because he wears a ski mask, but he is moving, moving, moving. 96 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: That extraordinary energy that goes into all those withdrawals and 97 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: all about traveling could also be going into accosting her. 98 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: So this puts her at greater risk, I think than 99 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: if he were just really low key and in one spot. 100 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: You know, the cops call the dad and they go, 101 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: we got good news he used their ATM. Bad news 102 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: is he's wearing a mask. We also know in the 103 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: ransom note he took the time to braid her hair 104 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: for the photo, and that I always want to vomit 105 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: because I'm thinking what he is doing too some antha 106 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: on the road taking her from Anchorage to Arizona to 107 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: New Mexico to Texas. I mean, Bobby Chicone, no offense 108 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: to the Fbi'm big fans most of the time, but Bobby, 109 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: at this point, had you ever seen anything like this 110 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: guy out smarting everybody at every turn, still wearing a 111 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: ski mask. He thinks to thwart you all the way 112 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: into Mexico. Well, let's take a step back and understand 113 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: what the investiators actually know at this point. So, with 114 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: an abduction like this, usually when there's a ransom demand, 115 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: the victim is with one person and the ransom collectors 116 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: with another. So we don't even know if there's a 117 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: single person at work here or there's multiple people at work. Now, 118 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: we know that abductions are hard. To abduct someone and 119 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: keep them as even harder to abduct them, to keep 120 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: them and travel with them is even more difficult than that, 121 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: So we don't know at this point whether the person 122 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: using this ATM card is in concert with other perpetrators who, 123 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: you know, maybe still have Samantha closer to a last 124 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: schoo where she was abducted. We don't know any of 125 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 1: that yet. All we know is that card is being used. 126 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: We don't know who's using it if if that card 127 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: has been sold or transferred to someone else, we don't know. 128 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: At this point. All we know is the card is 129 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: being used and we're following the card. But there's a 130 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: world of other possibilities that the investigators are still tracking 131 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: with abductions like this, which means the possibility is that 132 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: she still could be with someone else closer to the 133 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: abduction site. We just don't know at this point. You know, 134 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: something struck me, Bobby chicoan about what doctor Bethany Marshall said. 135 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw this to you, Cheryl McCollum. The incredible 136 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: energy he's putting into keeping up the chase. He is 137 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: on it. He has managed to get this squirrel out 138 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: of a coffee shop in a populated area. Nobody sees 139 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: a thing. You get the video. You can't tell who 140 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: he is. You can't tell a thing about him. Now 141 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: he's caught on cameras all across the kind tree and 142 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: multiple jurisdictions. We still can't figure out who is he? 143 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: What does he look like? Put out an apb All 144 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: points a bullet on him. Nothing. I mean, apparently Bobby 145 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: chicon is not as worried about it as I am. 146 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: But to me, that tells me this is a criminal mastermind. Nancy. 147 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: There's no question he's done a lot of preparation and 148 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: a lot of plans, even possibly mapping out where he's headed. Now, 149 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: no doubt about it. Let me tell you this, Nobody 150 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: ever accused the Devil of being stupid. In fact, he's 151 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: got to be brilliant, to have his own kingdom right, 152 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: ruling over evil throughout the universe. And here is this guy. 153 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: He is no idiot, but I guarantee you he is 154 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: nothing but pure evil. I can only imagine what Samantha's 155 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: father is going through the phone rings. He's got caller ID. 156 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: He knows it's the cops. He knows it's the fads. 157 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: They say, good news, we got a hit. We know 158 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: here he is. Oops, wait a minute, he's not an 159 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: Anchorage anymore. He's in Wilcox's. Wait. No, he's not in 160 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,719 Speaker 1: Wilcox's Arizona. He's in Lordsville. No, no, he's not in 161 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: New Mexico anymore. Now he's in Humble No, no, no, no, no, 162 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: he's in Shepherd, I mean. And then to tell him 163 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: the news. The guy who took your daughter still can't 164 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: be identified. He's still outsmarting us. But then another break 165 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: in the case. There was a Texas Highway Patrol corporal 166 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: and he saw a white Ford focus. He thought, this 167 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: looks kind of like the car they're looking for. The 168 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: vehicle makes a traffic in fraction and he's able to 169 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: pull him over. The police officer is handed an Alaska 170 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: driver's license. The corporal knew that this is the guide. 171 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: In the search of this vehicle, they found clothing that 172 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 1: matched the description of the clothing of the person who 173 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: was using the various ATMs. There's a gun in the 174 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: trunk of the car as well, But the big thing 175 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: is Samantha's cell phone. And then Samantha's debit card has 176 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: also recovered. Okay, now we have a glimmer of hope 177 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: out of the blue in this it reminds me so much, 178 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum of Timothy McVeigh, the Okay City bomber who 179 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: had murdered so many people. And he gets pulled over 180 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: because he has a rear signal malfunction on his car, 181 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: and then something didn't sit right with a cop and 182 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: then they find out he is Oklahoma City bomber that 183 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: stole so many lives, just ruthlessly. And remember the building, 184 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: the building that had a daycare in it, little babies 185 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: were there. Remember him. Now in this case, out of 186 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: the blue, still don't have an id, a visual or 187 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: who this guy is that took Samantha. But then a 188 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: cop across the country sees a Ford focus pulls it 189 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: over on a traffic violation and Samantha's things are recovered 190 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: in the car. This gives them hope Samantha is being 191 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: stashed somewhere. Listen, they had him on a federal case 192 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 1: of using a credit card illegally and could arrest him 193 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: on that. However, the one thing missing is Samantha. He 194 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: did not say anything about the kidnapping other than denying 195 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,959 Speaker 1: that he had anything to do with When they found him, 196 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: we had no clue with his mamas, never seen his 197 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: face before. What if any, is his connection with Samantha 198 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: Knig Because Dr Bethany Marshall's stranger on stranger abduction in 199 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: this scenario is highly highly rare, less than one percent nancy. 200 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: So the fact that this perpetrator could target Samantha, take her, 201 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: go on a crime spree, procure her atm all the 202 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: while having no links or no ties, that's unusual. And 203 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: what happens for the police in a situation like that 204 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: is that they have absolutely no clues. Think about it. 205 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: They cannot go through her computer or her cell phone 206 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: and see if there's anybody stalking her. They can't look 207 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: at people she went to high school with to see 208 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: if anybody had some kind of an obsession or a 209 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: preoccupation with her. This is literally, as you said earlier, 210 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: pure evil staring her in the face. Somebody who targeted her, 211 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: abducted her, took her ATM, went on a crime spree, 212 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: and now she's nowhere to be found. I were her dad, 213 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: I would be so sick and so terrified. I mean, 214 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: wouldn't you hope at least when he was pulled, think 215 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: about it, Think think think think think but John dot 216 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: com instore, John Only. The reality is we've got him. 217 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: He's got her ATM card, he's got her stuff. Clearly 218 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: he's not going to take her. According to her uncle, 219 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: she was very feisty in his words, not mine. You 220 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: don't want to take a feisty kidnap victim around locally 221 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: when you're stashing her somewhere else, because she could jump 222 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: out of the car and it all be over, John. 223 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: It's so true. And again focusing on what they do 224 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: have in the trunk of that car, Samantha's cell phone 225 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: and her ATM card. As we've heard, you know, that 226 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: gives the detectives a major shoe in the door because 227 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: using an ATM card illegally, well that's a federal offense. 228 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: No matter what state the person in Casey Grove joining 229 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: us with Alaska public Media Casey weigh In. The first 230 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: thing we heard about any sort of suspect or arrest 231 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: or anything in this whole thing charges was actually a 232 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: TV station down in Texas called the Anchorage Daily News, 233 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: and I talked to a reporter down there who just 234 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: had a kind of a wild tip from you know, 235 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: some public safety official off the record saying that this 236 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: guy who had been arrested something like, you know, just 237 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: outside of Luskin, Texas, was connected to an abduction in Alaska, 238 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: and everybody kind of knew in Alaska like which one 239 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: that was, because it was the biggest case going on 240 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: at the time that involved any kind of abduction. It 241 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: took some time before there was any real news about 242 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: the charges or any details from the charges. So they 243 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: they you know, released this charging document up on the 244 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: federal the Federal Courts System website, and it's not for 245 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: you know, murder or kidnapping or anything like that. It's 246 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: it's for you know, misusing this ATM card. Fraudulent use 247 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: of access device, I think is what they call it. 248 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: But it's you know, access device as an ATM card 249 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: that he had stolen from her and had been, according 250 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: to these charges, had been using this card to make 251 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: withdrawals in I think New Mexico, Arizona, Texas. There I 252 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: think there was one withdrawal you know, earlier on in Anchorage, 253 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: even which was always a very strange part of this 254 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: that you know, he had been getting a few hundred 255 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: dollars at a time and sort of gave the police 256 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: a way to track him. Yes, you're right, Casey, he 257 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: did give them a way to track him, um like 258 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: cancel and gratulating bread crumbs across the country. But every 259 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: time he thwarted them by going to a new location 260 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: before they can catch him and covering up his face. 261 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: But bizarrely, when they do get him for a traffic 262 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 1: violation of all things, nobody's ever seen him before. He 263 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: has no criminal history, nothing, And it's hard for me 264 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: to believe that you go from zero to one twenty 265 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: mph and one fell swoop. So who is this guy? 266 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: We get a name, keys to FBI Special Agent Bobby 267 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: Chicone joining us. Bobby. Now is the time that this 268 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: guy that nobody knows, nobody recognizes, no fingerprint on file, 269 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: nothing in napa's nothing in codas. Nothing needs to cough up. 270 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: Where is Samantha? How do we get it out of him? Bobby, Well, 271 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: the first thing we do is get him from Texas 272 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 1: back to Alaska where the case resides, and get him 273 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 1: into the hands of the agents and detectives who are 274 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: most familiar with the Samantha's case. And so that's what happens. 275 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: He is basically extradited from Texas back to Alaska and 276 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: within a day or two and then is made to 277 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: sit down with the people, mostly meliar with the case, 278 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: who can then start interrogating him on why he had 279 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: a card, who is he the one that actually took 280 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: the card? So we have to determine a lot. So 281 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: he's charged with the initial charge that we have on him. 282 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: Right as a prosecutor know where you can only charge 283 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: what you have. Right now, we only have the fact 284 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 1: that he used her at m which is the federal crime. 285 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: So he is extradited back to Alaska on that particular crime, 286 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: and then we can start looking into his connection to 287 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: Samantha and what those threads are that we can find. 288 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: You know, it's amazing to me that he never says 289 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: a word in when he's pulled over for the traffic stop. 290 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: When he's being held for extradition, He never says a 291 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: word the entire extradition process, which is either driving in 292 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: a pattiwagon or bipline where you literally are handcuffed to 293 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: the chair, to the seat, or to the federal agent. 294 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: Never said a word about Samantha. He doesn't reveal where 295 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: he's hiding her. Is she being fed? Is she being 296 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: tortured to some other guy? Have her shockways through the community. 297 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: Take a listen to law enforcement, Anchorage police and the 298 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: FED speaking to KTU. If the strongest words yet from 299 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: investigators looking into the abduction of Samantha Konick, APD Chief 300 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: Mark Muse says they think Israel Keys, a man arrested 301 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: in Texas for allegedly using a stolen debit card, is 302 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: involved in her abduction. Channels choose. Jason Lamb joins us 303 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: now from outside the federal courthouse in Anchorage, where that man, 304 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: Israel Keys, based to judge today, Jason, what did Keys 305 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: have to say in court today, Oh, Maria Mike, nothing 306 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: specifically related to the abduction of Samantha Kohonick. He spoke 307 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: very briefly short phrases. Yes, your honor, No, your honor, 308 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: things like that he did plead not guilty to the 309 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 1: charge of access device fraud using that stolen debit card 310 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: to try and get money. Keys sat in the room 311 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: today facing the judge as he read off that charge 312 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: against him. The most we heard from Keys was him 313 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: explaining why he didn't have enough money for a lawyer, 314 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: his voice quivering during that explanation. Afterwards, at a press 315 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: conference with investigators, they said they want more information about 316 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: the truck Keys was driving at the time of Koenig's abduction. 317 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: Toward the beginning of last month. They say they think 318 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: a large utility rack on the truck might have been 319 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: removed at the time of Koenig's abduction, and they want 320 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: to know if anyone helped remove that utility rack off 321 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: of keys car and Police Chief Mark News said in 322 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: the strongest way we've heard so far, that APD thinks 323 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: Keys is involved in Konig's abduction, and the US Attorney's 324 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: office back that up today by giving you the significance 325 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: of the connection between the investigation of Miss Koenig's abduction 326 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: and not only are the charges that were issued today 327 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: in which mister Keys was arraigned upon. I think it 328 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: lets people know the seriousness with which everybody hears taking it, 329 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: and it gives people a reason to calling and providing 330 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: information that they may be aware of associated with that 331 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,959 Speaker 1: truck or with mister Keys. Now beyond that, investigators wouldn't 332 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: answer any more questions about anything, including what the connection 333 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: is between Israel Keys and Samantha Koenig. They say they 334 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: have to keep that information close to their chest. To 335 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl, 336 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: we've got the guy in our grasp. Still no, Samantha. 337 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: How do you get somebody like this guy to talk? 338 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: Nitthy You're gonna want to get him by himself, with 339 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: just maybe one interrogator and let him talk, let him brag, 340 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: Let him talk about what he's done the past several days, 341 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: how he got her card, how he got her cell phone. 342 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: The best thing you can do is keep him talking 343 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: and asking very few questions. Well, here's the problem. You 344 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: can't beat him, you can't torture him. You can't give 345 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 1: him sodium pentathal. Our constitution, the truth serum can't do it. 346 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: If you do it, that confession, that statement will be 347 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: thrown out. Then you'll have nothing. Everything you gain as 348 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: a result of that statement, ie the location of Samantha 349 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: and all the evidence that will be thrown out of 350 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: court under the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine because 351 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: you got it from an illegal confession. So the cops, 352 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: there's really no nice way to put it, are screwed. 353 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: He won't talk. He's got the car, he's got the mask, 354 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: he's got Samantha stuff. Only thing missing Samantha. So how 355 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: does a candy bar and a cigar play into this? 356 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: First he makes a few demands. The mood significantly change. 357 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: Once we first got to hear from from Israel Keys, 358 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: it was clear just how cold and calculating he was. 359 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: I can give you the rest of the story, like 360 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, everything that happened if I get a cigar. 361 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: He wanted an Americano when he wanted a peanut butter 362 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: Snickers bar, and he wanted an opportunity to smoke a cigar, 363 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: which at the time we thought were pretty silly. But 364 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:14,959 Speaker 1: if that's what it was going to take for him 365 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: to talk with us, we were willing to do that. 366 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: That was when he began relating details of the kidnapping 367 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: of Samantha Cone. He had a shed in his driveway, 368 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: and ultimately he puts Samantha in the shed and she's 369 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: bound in the shed. There he was drinking alcohol and 370 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: smoking cigars and then turned up the music so that 371 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: any sounds that were irregular wouldn't be here by his 372 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: girlfriend daughter who were in the house or the neighbor, 373 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: and he sexually assaulted her through the night. Considering the 374 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: horrific ordeal Keys claims to have been acted right outside 375 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: his home, the FBI is shocked to find out that 376 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: Keys has a living girlfriend and a ten year old daughter. 377 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: His girlfriend and their child had absolutely no clue about 378 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: what he was up to. He indicates of Samantha that 379 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: his goal is to get money and if he gets 380 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: money that he intends to let her go. And while 381 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: she's in the shed is when he goes back to 382 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: the coffee standbut to get her phone, get her debit card, 383 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: and actually goes to an ATM to see how much 384 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: money is in her account and then returns to the shed. 385 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: What a cold blooded devil this guy is. He puts 386 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: Samantha Koenik in a shed and rapes her, turning up 387 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: the music high, high, high, so neighbors and his girlfriend 388 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: and daughter cannot hear her screaming, while, of course, the 389 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: FIDS make a bee line racing to the shed. Tacy 390 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: grab joining me Alaska Public Media tell me about the 391 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: shed and the cops the FIDS descending upon it. I 392 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: got a call from one of the neighbors at on 393 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: Israel Keith's Street where he lived with his girlfriend, and 394 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: like we had before, you know, and other reporters went 395 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: down and kind of just stood there on the street 396 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: watching FBI agents mostly working right around a shed right 397 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: in the front yard. We had seen them there before, 398 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: kind of searching around generally and not on the property, 399 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: but they were real focused on this shed and kind 400 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: of became apparent that they were digging it out. You know. 401 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: We thought at first maybe they were like digging in 402 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: the ground. It was frozen ground, you know, and like 403 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: digging maybe trying to dig something up. So, you know, 404 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: definitely just standing there for I don't know how long, 405 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: a couple of hours at least, and then what they 406 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: are actually doing was they were digging up the entire shed. 407 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: They like, you know, dug out around it, got it 408 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: loose from the ground, and then they used a forklift 409 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: to pick it up and put it on the back 410 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: of this slapbed truck, and they strapped it all down. 411 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: I mean, it was, you know, a real precarious situation 412 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: that seemed like on snow everything with this shed balanced, 413 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: not forklift, but they got it on there and took 414 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: it downtown. Me and a couple other reporters soon as 415 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: following him, following the slap ed truck with a shed 416 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: on it downtown to the FBI building. Bobby, did you go? 417 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: An FBI special agent on the scene, Bobby. Now we've 418 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 1: got the shed, We've got the shed where he kept her, 419 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: where he raped her, repeatedly turning up the music so 420 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: nobody could hear. We've got her clothes, but where is 421 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: she being held? You give him a candy bar, Snickers? 422 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: You give him a cigar. The guy is so chilled. 423 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: Did you hear him? He was actually laughing asking for 424 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: a cigar, as everybody's on pins and needles about Samantha, 425 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: and then what happens. Well, you know, as as as 426 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: much as that sounds like bad news, that he's that, 427 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: he's so cold and calculating and wants the cigar and 428 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: things in some respect as an interrogator, You know, this 429 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: guy is so narcissistic that he wants to talk. He 430 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: wants to be in control. And you have to assess 431 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: each person you're interrogating differently, determine what their wants and 432 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: needs are. This guy wants to talk, he wants to 433 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: be in control, he wants to show us what a 434 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: professional he is, and so he's not trying to deny, 435 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: he's not trying to hide. So that's that's actually for 436 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: us a good thing, the fact that he wants things 437 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: and he's going to in turn give up something for 438 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: the things that he gets that he wants. So in 439 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: some respects for us and as interrogators, that's a good sign. 440 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: We know he wants to talk now hasn't talked yet, 441 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: but the indications are that he wants to be in 442 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: control and he wants to talk. He knows that won't 443 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: last forever. So he knows he'll have to give up 444 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: something to get something and to keep this thing going. 445 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: And so we know that it's only a matter of 446 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: time that as long as we can be you know, 447 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: as we can give him a little bit of what 448 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: he wants, we can start demanding things that we want. 449 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: And so that's the process they're in right now. Dodgor 450 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, what does it mean to you that at 451 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: this juncture, at this point, he's actually the puppet here. 452 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: He's playing federal ages like puppets. They're running around getting 453 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: him cigars and candies and whatever he wants to try 454 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: to find out where Samantha is. And he still hasn't 455 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: coughed up Nancy. He's a pig and dirt. He is 456 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: rolling around, rooting around and loving this. Now. Remember when 457 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: they first arrested him and put him in the so 458 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: called pattiwagon, he had nothing to say. The reason for 459 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: that is he felt diminished, inferior, and as if he 460 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: had lost his power. But the minute he asked for 461 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: the candy bar, the cigar, the Americano, now he was 462 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: getting them to serve his needs and not the other 463 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: way around. In a way, he was recreating the crime 464 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: scene right where he was smoking a cigar, he was 465 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: drinking alcohol. He's back to like it's his world and 466 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: everyone's living in it. Now. Remember, sociopaths are quite grandiose, 467 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: So if you appeal to their narcissism, you can get 468 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: them to talk about almost any thing. Once in my office, 469 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: I said to a grandpa who had molested his grandchild, 470 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: and I was afraid he was going to continue to molest. 471 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: I said to him, think about how everybody's going to 472 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: look up to you and admire you if you never 473 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: touch a child again. In fact, you could be the 474 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: most important person in your community. You could be a 475 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: great man. Everybody will revere you. That was I felt. 476 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: The only deterrent to him molesting again was to appeal 477 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: to his narcissism. That's what these investigators are doing, and boy, 478 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: it really works. I mean he folded and he just 479 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: started to talk and talk and talk, because now he's 480 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: in his glory days. Oh yeah, he is basking, basking 481 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: in the attention for the federal agents, especially from female 482 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: agent Bobby Chicone. You get the shed, obviously, Samantha still 483 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: not in there. Then we find out after he has 484 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: Samantha in the shed, raping her, getting her atm cars, 485 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: stealing her money, he goes off on a two week cruise. 486 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: He leaves Samantha in the shed two weeks to go 487 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: on a cruise. What did the fans learn from the shed? Bobby? 488 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: They dig the whole thing up, put it on a truck, 489 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: strap it down and take it away. What did they 490 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: learn from the shed? You know? The first thing I 491 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: learned when I stepped into that shed and looked at it. Um, 492 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: what I learned was it was already outfitted for an abduction, 493 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: and so it had restraining devices already screwed into some 494 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: of the beams in it. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. See 495 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: you gotta talk, not FBI talk. You've got to talk 496 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: regular people talk. What do you mean by restraining devices? 497 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: He's had already put things in that shed that would 498 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: make it easier to restrain somebody, to tie them down. 499 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: He'd had what looked to me like, um, you bolts 500 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: into the walls of the shed that could be used 501 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: to tie rope through, and that you could restrain somebody 502 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: in there. So we already know that no one is 503 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: going to vibe in a shed like that in February 504 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: for two weeks and anchor ch Alaska, I mean, you'd 505 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: freeze to death. And so we knew that Samantha had 506 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: been probably in there and tied up in there, you know, 507 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: But now it's anybody's guests as to where she is currently. 508 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: How far was the shed from the house where his 509 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: girlfriend and daughter were. It was basically in the driveway 510 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: of the house when I stepped into it, and had 511 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: already been removed to the FBI office in the garage 512 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: of the FBI office, that's when I first saw it. 513 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: But it had been dug up from what was basically 514 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: right next to his house. And the girlfriend and the 515 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: daughter never heard a thing. All they could hear was 516 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: music blaring. Even the neighbors could hear it. And in 517 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: the midst of you examining the shed, you get a call. 518 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: You get a call about, of all things, the ransom 519 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: note and the photo the photo of Samantha clearly taken 520 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: in the shed after he had braided her hair, and 521 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: in that phone hall. What do you learn? So the 522 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: phone call or the report from the friendship photography unit, 523 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: Quantico determined that Lynn, looking at the photograph and examining 524 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: it very closely, it appeared that Samantha's eyes were somehow 525 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: artificially held open, probably through the use of some kind 526 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: of sewing of string to keep those eyes open. Of course, 527 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: then it was in the photograph. It looked like it 528 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: was then covered up with makeup. Let me just interpret 529 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: what Bobby Chicon FBI special agent has just laid on me, 530 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, my longtime friend and colleague. He stitched her 531 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:59,479 Speaker 1: eyes open, then covered them with makeup, then blurred the photo. Cheryl, 532 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: she's dead. She's dead. She's dead. If he stitched her 533 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: eyes open, she's dead. The level of horror that that 534 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: would serve for that family is astronomical. I mean, there 535 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: are absolutely no words to describe what this monster has 536 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: now done to their child and what Bobby's going to 537 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: be faced with. At this point, we have a crime 538 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: scene at the coffee shop, one in his truck, and 539 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: now want at the shed, and Bobby's got to find 540 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: the fourth crime scene. You know what, Cheryl, I don't 541 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: know how you just did that. How you can talk 542 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: about finding the crime scene, because all I can think 543 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 1: about is him hunched over her body that he's raped, 544 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: probably in life and postmortem, then braiding her hair in 545 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 1: life or postmortem, and then st itching. Hunched over her 546 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: with the light on and the shed with the music blaring, 547 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: and his girlfriend and the daughter fifty feet away, and 548 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: he has a needle and thread and he's actually holding 549 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: her eyelids to her brow and stitching her eyelids open, 550 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: all right, now, I just I've prosecuted a lot of murders. 551 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of horrible things. I've seen torture, 552 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: I've seen people buried alive, children buried. I've seen it all, 553 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: I think. And now here comes Israel Keys and he 554 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: does this to this girl in a shed, in a shed, 555 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: just feet away from people that could have saved her 556 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: if they dared. Bobby Shall, I mean, what do you 557 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: do with that when you find out from the Federal 558 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: photography unit in Quantico her eyes are stitched open. Then 559 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: he puts some heavy makeup on her to try to 560 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: make her look alive, and that was used in the 561 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 1: ansome note. Well you know it. You know, as investigators, 562 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 1: we remove ourselves from the emotional elements that that entails, 563 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: at least at the time. And you have to tell 564 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: yourself what this tells us about this person, because everything 565 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,800 Speaker 1: you can learn about this person can be used basically 566 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,879 Speaker 1: back in the interrogation of the person. So we now 567 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: know how cold and how calculating, and how brutal, how 568 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: evil this person is. So so now we know with 569 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: the planning that we know went into it, with the 570 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: brutality that's been carried out during it, we know that 571 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: there's a lot more to this evil person than what 572 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: we know. This took a lot of time, a lot 573 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: of forethought, a lot of planning, and God help me, 574 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: I hope not a lot of practicing before he did 575 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 1: this thing to Samantha Coning. But now we know she's dead, 576 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: and we know that because photography experts at Quantico have 577 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: somehow figured out this polaroid. It was a polaroid, as 578 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: I recall that her eyes had been stitched open. And 579 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: you know, when I was trying cases, doctor Bethany, I 580 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: couldn't remove myself from the facts, and sometimes to get 581 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: through it, I would have to just not think about it, 582 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,399 Speaker 1: which became very handy in life, the ability not to 583 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: think about something. But I made my juries think about it, 584 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: and when I would make them think about it, I 585 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: had to think about it because I had to tell 586 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: them in detail. I mean holding her eyelids, think about it, 587 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: holding her eyelid, her dead eyelid open, and stitching through 588 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: it to her brow. Nancy. He turned her into a human, 589 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: non living, dead human doll, stitching her eyes open, braiding 590 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: her hair, putting makeup on her, and that's just what 591 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: we know from the neck up. I don't even want 592 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: to think what he did to the neck down. He's 593 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: probably a necrophiliac. He probably desecrated her corpse. He had 594 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: the ultimate triumph and the ultimate control over her to 595 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,800 Speaker 1: do whatever he wanted with her body, and she wouldn't protest. 596 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: That shed. Nancy was his party pad. He was obsessed 597 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: with the shed. He had been outfitting it. I would 598 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: imagine for months. He probably chose that house because the 599 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: shed was in front. I can't even imagine the equipment 600 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: on the walls, chains, things to hide people, to restrain them, 601 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: and then restraining them in life is not enough. Now 602 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: he has to restrain them in death. It's the ultimate power. 603 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 1: It's the ultimate degradation and triumph over the love object. 604 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: That's what it is. The FBI now are on the mission, 605 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: not to save Samantha, but to recover her body. Did 606 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: keys ever divulge where her body was? Yes, he did. 607 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 1: He let them. He let the agents know in the 608 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 1: interrogation that he had taken her to a lake about 609 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: forty miles north of Anchorage. Remember this is still the winter, 610 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: and he went out onto this frozen lake that's used 611 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: to ice. Fishermen use it all the time. So you 612 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: see these these tents that are put up by these 613 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,479 Speaker 1: ice fishermen so they can sit around a fishing hole 614 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: in the cold and fish. So he got himself one 615 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: of these tents. He put it up, He drilled a 616 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,919 Speaker 1: hole through the ice, and he put Samantha's body through 617 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 1: that hole to rest on the bottom of that lake. 618 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: Listen to this. The FBI dispatches their cold water dive team. 619 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: Special Agent Bobby Shicone is tapped to lead the recovery efforts. 620 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: It's still late winter and anchorage and the conditions we're 621 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 1: going to be operating under extreme. We can get to 622 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: Lake Manauska and some FBI agents they're kind of standing 623 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: watch over a spot on the lake. The keys had 624 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 1: directed them too. It was a fishing hole that was 625 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 1: frozen over. I looked at that and I said, if 626 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 1: she's here, we're going to find her. We'd put her 627 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: under what a robot in and as soon as the 628 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 1: video camera went on, we saw obvious human remains and 629 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: I could turn to the detective in the case agent 630 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: and say, tell your boss, as we've found him on 631 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 1: you're hearing our friend Bobby Shicon speaking with Oxygen and 632 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: he is with us now. Bobby FBI special agent you 633 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: can find at Bobby shakon dot com. Bobby, just imagining 634 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: you looking out at that frozen lake, trying to figure 635 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: out where is she, knowing her body is under all 636 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 1: that ice somewhere. I mean, what did he do? Go 637 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: out there, pretend he was fishing, and then get cut 638 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: a hole and stick her body down there. As gruesome 639 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: as that sounds, you're exactly right, that's exactly what he did. 640 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: Because we know his meticulous planning. He did exactly what 641 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: you said. He pretended he was fishing. He got himself 642 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,800 Speaker 1: one of these ice fisherman tents that would basically hide 643 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: him from any outside eyes. He had Samantha's body on 644 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,719 Speaker 1: a sled, and everything he was doing at that point 645 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 1: looked just like a number of other fishermen that would 646 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: be doing the same kind of activity, except that he 647 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,799 Speaker 1: had Samantha's body under tarp on his sled. And when 648 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: he took her into that that ice tent that he 649 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,800 Speaker 1: had set up and filled the hole, you know inside 650 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 1: the tent, it's through the ice. I want you to 651 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:58,919 Speaker 1: hear the Killer Keys describing how after he puts this 652 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: girl's body that icy water. He actually catches fish. He 653 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: goes fishing, and he brings the fish home to his 654 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:13,399 Speaker 1: girlfriend and daughter and they eat the fish. He tried 655 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: to find a deep lake near the Anchorage area, and 656 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: he had found Mattnuska Lake and he actually went to 657 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: where on the map he felt one of the deepest 658 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: areas was in the lake. A lot of ice fishermen 659 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: out there, so he used that as a ruse to 660 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 1: cut a hole in the ice and ultimately disposed it 661 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: for body there. So I asked him, kind of like 662 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 1: his apropos of nothing, I just well, did you catch 663 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: any fish? And he said yeah, I called fishing. Well 664 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: what did you do with him? He goes, I took 665 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: him home and ate them. So that really kind of 666 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: turned my stomach as well, that this guy, would you know, 667 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 1: kind of he's disposing of a body, catching fish and 668 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 1: going home and serving him to his family. Cheryl, I'm 669 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: imagining the moment that he gets her body. He's got 670 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 1: it all planned, he's outsmarted everybody. He gets her body, 671 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 1: he's cut the hole in the ice, looks like he's fishing, 672 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: and the moment that body Samantha goes into the water. 673 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:10,720 Speaker 1: It's almost like flushing a kamade or throwing the trash 674 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:15,920 Speaker 1: in the dumpster. Nancy, she would slowly think and just 675 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 1: fade away, I guess. And here's what's so astronomical for 676 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: me again, is the level of twisted evil that it 677 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:34,600 Speaker 1: would take that again, transporting her body, the preparing to transport, 678 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,279 Speaker 1: the in plane view, having her under this tart, but 679 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 1: still if people can see him, and then going into 680 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: something that he again has taken great time to prepare, 681 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: and he's very meticulous. And I agree with Bobby that 682 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 1: to me is the most unbelievable thing is the time 683 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,280 Speaker 1: that he has taken before the crime has actually happened. Again, 684 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:04,640 Speaker 1: did and thick beyond anything that I think we've seen too, 685 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,640 Speaker 1: Bobby Chicon, You're out there on the ice. There's no 686 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,320 Speaker 1: sign of where he drilled nothing. How do you figure 687 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 1: out where to start? How did you recover you, Bobby Chicon, 688 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: recover her body? Well, we went right to the edge 689 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 1: of the water, well, at the edge of the lake 690 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,280 Speaker 1: where Keys said he entered the lake. So he described 691 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: in detail by the investigators had him draw a picture 692 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: of the lake and where he actually set foot on 693 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: that ice, what direction and approximately how far out he went. 694 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 1: The thing is, after he said he was done, he 695 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,880 Speaker 1: had a piece of wood, a small piece of plywood 696 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:46,759 Speaker 1: that he for some reason said on fire and probably 697 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,400 Speaker 1: because it had blood on it, and he left it 698 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,760 Speaker 1: there and that piece of small piece of plywood melted 699 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,759 Speaker 1: itself into the ice, which then refroze over it. But 700 00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,839 Speaker 1: the agents in Alaska had located that. They followed this path. 701 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:02,799 Speaker 1: We followed this path that he told us, and we 702 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:07,600 Speaker 1: found this half burnt, frozen piece of plywood in the ice, 703 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 1: and we realized we're at the point. And then we 704 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,680 Speaker 1: saw a frozen over fishing hole. Do you see these 705 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,760 Speaker 1: plugs of ice that have frozen over when the fishermen 706 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 1: have used We found a plug of ice frozen over 707 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,920 Speaker 1: very near that piece of burnt plywood, and we realized 708 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,279 Speaker 1: this is the hole he probably used. And so let's 709 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: start looking right here. And as Cheryl McCollum just pointed 710 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,239 Speaker 1: out again, it's a race against time. First it was 711 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 1: a race to find Samantha, and then it was a 712 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,799 Speaker 1: race to hopefully save her and get her out of 713 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,440 Speaker 1: the shed she was in. Then it's a race to 714 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 1: find her body before her remains. Just as Cheryl said, 715 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 1: vanish just fade away, get fed on by fish and 716 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:54,319 Speaker 1: other creatures underwater, or degenerate to the point that she 717 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,279 Speaker 1: can no longer be recovered. So how do you go 718 00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: about it? You dig a hole in the ice, and 719 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: then what do you do? I mean, I've a diver, 720 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,200 Speaker 1: but I've never died, and all the hundreds of times 721 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: I've died, and that kind of cold water, how do 722 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,279 Speaker 1: you And it's got to be murky, how do you 723 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 1: find her? And in the middle of this giant, massive 724 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,720 Speaker 1: ice covered lake. So what we do is we employ 725 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:20,839 Speaker 1: and this this is not an uncommon scenario for us 726 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 1: looking under ice. So and the water under ice is 727 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,520 Speaker 1: normally more clear because there's less fish life. Everything is 728 00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,359 Speaker 1: dormant in the winter. So what we do is, once 729 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 1: we drill a small hole, we put a sonar device 730 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 1: down and it starts looking at objects on the bottom 731 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 1: to give us an idea of you know, is this 732 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,799 Speaker 1: a rocky bottom? Is there a lot of debris down there? 733 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,040 Speaker 1: And what we learned from the sonar was that it 734 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,960 Speaker 1: was a very clean, flat bottom at about fifty feet 735 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,520 Speaker 1: of depth. And so after the sonar gives us really 736 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:58,200 Speaker 1: five individual targets. Targets being shadows. Sonar gives you shadows 737 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: of shapes. So we have five different shapes on the 738 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,640 Speaker 1: bottom in this general area. Below this hole that we 739 00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,799 Speaker 1: think he used, we put our underwater robot and we 740 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,760 Speaker 1: draw us another hole bigger to fit the underwater robot. 741 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:15,560 Speaker 1: The underwater robot we pilot that very close to one 742 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 1: of these objects that we saw on the sonar. Now 743 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,319 Speaker 1: there's a lot of pressure on the dive team to 744 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,600 Speaker 1: identify because the entire city and the investigative reporters have 745 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: done a good job and they know that we're on 746 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,400 Speaker 1: that lake, and the police chief and the mayor and 747 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 1: the FBI boss are all telling me that the minute 748 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 1: I can confirm that it's her, I have to let 749 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 1: them know because they're about to give a press conference 750 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,279 Speaker 1: and let the community know. But I will not confirm 751 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,359 Speaker 1: that it is a person or a human remains until 752 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,839 Speaker 1: I am one hundred percent sure, because the last thing 753 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,000 Speaker 1: I want to do is give people, you know, some 754 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,319 Speaker 1: kind of bad information. And so it isn't until I 755 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,799 Speaker 1: put the second of our three methods to work, and 756 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,080 Speaker 1: that is the second method is the robot. And then 757 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,520 Speaker 1: once the dust is Basically, the silt on the bottom 758 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,759 Speaker 1: kicks up when the robot lands. We have to wait 759 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,799 Speaker 1: a few minutes, and then that silt ultimately settles and 760 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: I can turn on the video camera on my robot, 761 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 1: and then I can identify it positively as human remains. 762 00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,600 Speaker 1: Still can't say it's Samantha. But what I can tell 763 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 1: them is, we have a body, or you have something 764 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,759 Speaker 1: that looks like it could be a body, for all 765 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 1: you know at this point, it's a tree limb, it 766 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,520 Speaker 1: could be rocks, it could be some sort of debris. 767 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,960 Speaker 1: You don't know yet. It could be Samantha. Nancy Grace 768 00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:42,560 Speaker 1: signing off goodbye,