WEBVTT - Weaponizing Our Children 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.440 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Okay f Daily with 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:19.520 Me your Girl, Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks, 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:24.640 Today I get into a conversation with our friend, doctor 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:30.160 Jonathan Metzel about the mental and emotional well being of 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:35.239 the nation's children. As a former educator and just somebody 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:39.320 who gives a shit about the future of this country, 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:47.800 I am really concerned with the stress, anxiety, and fear 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:56.200 that our young people are dealing with. Not only have 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:00.920 we created an environment where it is now the norm 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:06.400 for children in schools to do active shooter drills as 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.319 opposed to just the fire drills that most of us 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:14.440 grew up with. Not only is it the norm for 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:18.520 as a part of putting together back to school supplies, 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:27.840 for parents to be googling bulletproof backpacks. Now we have 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:35.000 young people who are living in Red States who are 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:42.120 having books banned, books that represent them, their lives, their families. 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:47.720 The message that is being sent purposefully to those young 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:55.480 people who are queer, who are black and brown, who 0:01:55.560 --> 0:02:01.040 come from queer families is that we do not see you. 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.639 Not only do we not see you, we don't want 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:12.840 to see you. Your existence, your experience. Your life doesn't matter, 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:19.400 and not only should it not matter, it should be banned, 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:28.440 It should be illegal for you to exist. We are 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:39.280 in this country weaponizing our children. Jonathan and I will 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:44.760 get into a discussion on what the future looks like 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.480 when we are not tending to the needs of young 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:56.960 people but instead using them as a political football. Now, 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:04.240 you know, when I say we, I mean all of America, 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:12.080 but it is really the Republican regime that does not 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:16.679 give a damn about your kids and your children's well being, 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:24.040 because if they did, they wouldn't be continuing on their 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:30.120 march to defunding public education. They wouldn't be offering up 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:37.800 policies that have people with zero experience quote unquote teaching 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:43.520 your young people. If we cared about kids, we would 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.760 care about teachers, and we would pay them a wage 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:49.160 that is worth the work that they are doing to 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:54.840 shape the minds of future leaders, innovators, and workers in 0:03:54.880 --> 0:04:01.320 this country. We don't. Every time there is a shooting, 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:07.160 we send in mental health professionals for what a month, 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:11.480 two months, and then we assume what that Kids shrug 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:16.240 this off and just continue about their days. What Jonathan 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:18.680 will talk about is the fact that what these young 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.240 people are dealing with is not something that can be 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:25.640 fixed with a pill. This isn't about a lack of 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:31.960 serotonin level or a mental health disorder. It is about 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:41.000 society structural injustice. And so, what does America look like 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:46.719 ten years, twenty years, thirty years, fifty years down the road. 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:50.800 If this is what we are doing to our young 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:58.480 people now, does it look like Putin's Russia? This man 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:02.720 wants to be a world power, wants to be the 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:07.600 force of yesteryear, but he doesn't have the workforce, the innovation, 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:14.000 the creativity, or anything to actually bring that country forward, 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:18.960 because how does that work when you have an oppressive regime. 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.679 Jonathan will talk about what we know to be true 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:30.839 through research with regard to diverse work environments with people 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:39.240 from varied cultural, ethnic, and racial backgrounds. In those environments, 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:45.160 you're able to work with and deal with and create 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:52.160 and design creative systems to deal with the issues of 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:56.279 today because you're coming with so many different vantage points. 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:04.640 America isn't just a backsliding democracy. It will have a 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:09.920 backsliding economy. It will cease to be a world leader 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:14.760 because you can't do that with the restrictions and oppression 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:21.280 that Republicans are putting in place. So what does the 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:25.360 future of America look like? It's sure as hell doesn't 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:29.919 look bright. Coming up next, my conversation with our friend 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:42.080 and our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. The Damage 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:44.800 Report with John Idarola is one of the most popular 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.680 shows on the TYT network that serves as your daily 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:50.919 breakdown of the genuine threats and challenges facing our country 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.279 and world. These days, we're confronted with an overwhelming sea 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:58.360 of shocking, confounding, and devastating news stories. The Damage Report 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.159 is your life raft, helping you navigate the day's news 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:05.560 and understand the damage caused by the corrupt establishment, politicians, corporations, 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.520 and everything in between. Join the Damage Reports notorious fan club, 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.560 the Dragon Squad, where you become part of the fantastic 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.960 community of progressives, create a fun dragon nickname that fits 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:20.040 your personality, collaborate and participate in fun activities like voting 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.720 for the Garbage person of the Week, and much more. 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.240 Listen to The Damage Report on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.200 wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you hear, 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:36.080 be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Hey, there, 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:38.360 I want to tell you about another podcast I think 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:41.200 you'll love. The Brown Girl's Guide to Politics, hosted by 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.800 a Shanty Gooehler, the president of Emerge. BGG, is the 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.000 one stop shop for women of color who want to 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.480 hear and talk about the world of politics. Join a 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.240 Shanty this season as she talks to incredible women of 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:54.840 color who are changing the face of politics and tackling 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.720 some of the most important issues facing the United States, 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:01.200 from reproductive justice, to voting rights, to climate change and more. 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:07.240 Tune in every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. Folks, 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.679 you know that when I have the opportunity to welcome 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.720 our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel to wok F, 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:17.840 I am always thrilled. And Jonathan, you know this month, 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:22.200 September is back to school, you know, for the nation's children, 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.240 and I have, you know, as a former educator. My 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:32.920 sister is currently teaching in an independent school in New 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:38.360 York and we've been having conversations about the emotional and 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:44.920 mental health and well being of young people and I 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:49.800 can't imagine honestly what it is like to go back 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.319 to school in the climate that we are in, and 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.280 just the fact that over the last. I don't even 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:58.520 know how many years it's been since Columbine. I guess 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:02.079 it's been over twenty. That school shootings are the norm, 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.000 and preparing for that is part of preparing your kids 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.320 to go back to school. I wanted to get your 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.400 thoughts on what many have been talking about as like 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:16.840 this kind of you know, impending emotional national emotional breakdown 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:22.480 of our children and it and it doesn't necessarily these 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:27.640 feelings don't necessarily vary with age. The intensity just varies. 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:32.520 So I wanted to get your your initial thoughts on 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:37.920 the mental and emotional well being of our nation's children. Well, 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:41.760 I mean, our our response is going to go. Our 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:45.760 response is going to reverberate. Our shitty response honestly, is 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.600 going to reverberate for generations. I really have been worried 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:51.840 about this for some time. I mean, think about the 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:56.120 perfect storm of what happened. We had fault lines already 0:09:56.160 --> 0:10:00.520 in education, we'd under invested in education before the pandemic. 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:04.640 For all this, there were dramatic inequities in the education system, 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.800 and then and also in the mental health system, right 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:13.480 and then the pandemic hits and all of these things 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:18.440 play out. People are either at home or there. No 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.439 matter where they were getting schooling, they were missing socialization. 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.040 But also there was just an overwhelming sense that no 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.480 matter what side of the political divide you were on 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:30.920 the world as we knew it was kind of collapsing. 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:35.199 The grown ups could not get along. And so all 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.320 these things were happening at one time, and it led 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.920 to as we saw a dramatic, just overall mental health 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:46.760 crisis in young in young people at the same time 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.439 that the mental health system was falling apart. There wasn't 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.679 enough treatment, and just to be honest, mental health treatment 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:56.840 didn't have a response to what was happening. Right. Mental 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:00.079 health treatment like talked to a psychiatrist on zoom or 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:04.120 take some Zoloft was not a right answer. The answer 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.559 was fixed the structure. And so in general there was 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.280 a crisis of the education system and the mental health 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.160 system for young people at the same time. And then 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:18.520 in response to that, what we've done is we politicized school. 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.240 So in the face of all of this crisis, the 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.880 best answer would have been, we are taking care of you, 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.880 young people. We want to just make sure we're all 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.439 getting along, even if we can't agree as grown ups. 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.400 We can get along and figure out what to do 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.120 so that you guys can lead us to the future. 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.640 And instead, what we did is we had all these 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:45.160 fights about critical race theory and sexuality studies and banning 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:49.800 books in libraries and what viewpoint and all these kind 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.000 of things, and so in a way, we basically brought 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.600 the culture wars that we're leading to mental health crisis 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:58.240 in the first place into the lives of young people. 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:00.840 And so I just can't imagine. And I know because 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.760 I teach college kids and I hear about this every day, 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.880 but I just can't imagine what that must feel like, 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.079 because what young people now we're looking for is a 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.280 kind of certainty that everything's going to be okay, And instead, 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.520 what they're getting is that the ship show, honestly that 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.319 education and mental health art right now. You know. One 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:21.800 of the things that my sister and I had been 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:28.000 talking about was the fact that parents, being out of 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:34.400 their depth right at this time, are turning to their pediatricians, 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:41.960 right their general pediatricians to seek advice, counsel, medication for 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:46.120 their children, and that what is coming up is that 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:50.280 the pediatricians themselves are saying that they are not equipped 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:54.840 for this they're not mental health professionals. They deal with 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.360 right the body and not the mind. So can you 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:05.280 speak to you know, for parents or caregivers who are 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:09.120 looking to seek aid, their first line of defense is 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.640 to go to their pediatrition, but that their pediatrician may 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:18.320 in fact not be you know, not have the right 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.520 tools in their own toolbox to be able to provide 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.200 your child with the type of care that they need. 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.679 But not every parent has a therapist on speed dial. 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.560 And also, so many of these problems aren't medical or 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:37.000 psychiatric problems. There are social problems. They're structural problems. And 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.559 so in a way, I don't think that many mental 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:46.960 health professionals or health professionals have a toolkit for you know, 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.840 imagine being a trans kid right now and having books 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.200 about you banned from your own school library. Like it's 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.679 not like there's a prescription that's going to cure that 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.200 in a way. And so I just feel like that 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:00.680 what we're seeing as kind of the mental help the facts. 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:02.200 I mean, there is real months of illness, and I 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:05.240 do think we need a national move to just take 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:07.960 care of people. But instead what we're seeing is I 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.439 just feel like kids are being weaponized right now, education 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.480 is being weaponized and it's kind of like, how much 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:20.080 can we instill our own agenda by brainwashing kids so 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.680 that thirty years from now they'll be the foot soldiers. 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.600 So that that's part of it. And then the other 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:28.760 part is we talked about last week and the week before, 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:33.360 is also it's not just about and I don't mean 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.440 to get away from your britietrition, Quesian, but I'm saying like, 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:41.480 when you're having like very untrained, unqualified soldiers and their 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:46.240 spouses teaching kids who have no qualification whatsoever to teach, 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.960 then the other the message you're telling people is also 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.320 your education as a kind of critical thinker who's going 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:58.080 to contribute to society and have you know, successful life 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:02.160 is less important than our own agenda, which is going 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.760 to undertrain you so that you only become like a 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.440 menial labor or something like that. So in a way, 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.240 just all these messages are being heaped onto kids right now, 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:15.720 and it's just it's honestly horrific. And so partially I 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:19.200 agree mental health. I mean, even trained psychiatrists don't have 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:21.040 an answer for this. What do they have? They can 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.360 do zoom therapy, they can do individual therapy. They can 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:30.160 do medications, but they can't fix these bigger structural problems, 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.120 which is like, man, it's a moment for some social capital, 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.200 some social cohesion, Like let's kind of get together and 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.440 take care of kids and not use them as ponds, 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.680 which is what's happening right now. You know, It's what 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.760 I find. So, you know, troubling about what you're saying 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:51.440 is that it isn't as if this is a psychiatric issue, 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.880 right that we're we're talking about your serotonin levels, or 0:15:55.920 --> 0:16:00.880 we're talking about you know, any type of disorder, right, 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:05.200 mental disorder. We are talking about the fact that if 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:09.560 you are a queer child, right, or the child of 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:14.480 queer parents, and you're living in any red state in 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.600 this country right now, which is you know, a majority 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:25.240 of them, your life right is being banned, is being shunned, 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:29.680 is being told that it is not even just a sin, 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.680 but it is not worthy of discussion of you know, 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:38.400 of of of of of literature, of anything that you 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:43.120 you should not By banning these books that allow children 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.240 to be able to understand themselves more and the world 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:50.680 around them, we are essentially blacking them out right, And 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.080 I just I want to talk about this for a moment, 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:59.320 because it isn't This isn't a pill solution, right, Like, 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.560 because we can't say like, oh, well, they're depressed because 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:09.880 they are suffering from depression. They are depressed or are 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:14.280 being weighed down with anxiety because the fears that they 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:19.919 have are real, and so how do we manage this? 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.400 Because it isn't enough, like, and this is the thing 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.320 that is troubling me is that, Jonathan, in the early 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.600 two thousands, if you remember, which I'm sure you do, 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:35.240 there was a rash of suicides of LGBTQ children. Was 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:39.040 like the it was like Obama had I think it 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.720 was like that election time, maybe he had been entering 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.560 the White House, and it was like one headline after 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:51.960 the other were elementary school and middle school children that 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:58.000 were committing suicide because of bullying that they were experiencing 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:02.119 because they were the perception was that they were queer, 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:07.600 they were different, they were other. The Trevor Project and 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:12.080 other LGBTQ organizations got together and created the it Gets 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:18.280 Better campaign to try and have older LGBTQ people express 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:22.720 in video form that you will get to the other side. 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.080 But Jonathan, this is the other side, right, And it's 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:32.520 a mixed bag. We have a gay Secretary of Transportation, 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:38.720 a transgender cabinet member in the Biden administration. Right, we 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:44.360 have more representation of queer people and difference in Hollywood, 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.919 you know, in Disney, on the small screen, on the 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:52.119 big screen, and yet we have this And so I guess, 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:58.680 how do we formulate to these kids that it gets better, 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:02.080 but that it's a eventually, life is a mixed bag. 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:07.840 I mean again, I think, let me just be clear. 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.720 I think anybody who needs help should seek help. So 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:14.679 I'm not at all saying that we shouldn't enlist mental 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.280 health support when we can. And I mean, there are 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:24.880 life saving interventions for therapy and medication and all those factors. 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:28.199 So I'm not making an argument against treatment. But I 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:32.399 would say that countries that use their kids to prove 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:39.000 ideological points really suffer for decades and centuries. And that's 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:43.720 what we're seeing now. And so I mean, I understand 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:45.800 because I read a lot of conservative media, you know, 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:49.399 all this critique of like woke indoctrination and all that 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:53.359 kind of stuff, and I just feel like there's just 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.760 so many kids caught in the middle of all this 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.800 stuff and so on one hand, I agree if you're 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:03.160 a gay or fans kid and you're just seeing it's 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:05.199 not just the books being banned in the library, but 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.439 it's of course tied to a bigger political agenda and 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:15.120 ideology that is banning actual medical treatment and it's banning 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.600 there's a bill that is not being supported to support 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:21.600 gay marriage and all these things, and so it's tied 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:25.000 to a bigger ideology. But I would say on the 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.240 other side, just because I'm in Tennessee, I do often 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.719 wonder and it's kind of countertuitive point, like what we 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:36.760 just assume that conservative kids have the same ideology as 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:41.359 their parents. But how many conservative kids who could go 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:47.160 on to be like creative geniuses or mathematicians or world 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:51.560 leaders or something like that, are being like homeschooled, are, 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:56.640 you know? Or they're not being exposed to complex problems 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.400 or diverse things. And so in a way we're kind 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.080 of screwing over conservative kids also because we just kind 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.919 of automatically assume, well, they're the ones who just have 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:08.960 the same ideology as their parents. And I think all 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.320 the data on education shows that people who are exposed 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.840 early on to like the greatest array of different kinds 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:20.320 of people and complex problems and different ways of approaching things. 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:21.960 They're the ones who go on to be like the 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:24.960 leaders of tomorrow. And so I think that in a way, 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:27.920 we're also screwing. We're screwing over all kinds of kids 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:31.560 in different ways right now. And I think that that's 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:34.440 kind of the issue that kind of gets lost sometimes, 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:39.879 is like defunding education across the board screws over many 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.040 different kinds of kids because we just assume, you know, 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:47.600 right wing kids are at home spouting off election propaganda 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.080 or something, and that's not the case, you know, And 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:54.000 so let's talk about those ripple effects, right because again, 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:57.199 what I find about and I don't even like to 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.199 refer to it as conservatism at this point, because it 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:04.240 is just authoritarian, fascist propaganda, right that we are seeing 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.639 at at at every turn, at every level, at every 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:13.760 level of government and society. I want to talk about 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:18.359 the ripple effects of this because I believe that the 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:24.119 Republican regime is one that is incredibly shortsighted, one that 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:28.520 is very much even though they have had plans for 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:31.400 the last forty years to overturn rob Wait that they 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:35.119 have plans you know, for fifty years since the Civil 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:38.159 Rights Act to suppress the black and brown votes. That 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:42.000 they have these long term plans of oppression, but the 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:48.320 immediacy of what they're doing. They are not looking at 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:54.639 the long term effects of how defunding education, how putting 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.560 a soldier in their spouse in front of the classroom 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:03.080 is going to inhibit the United States in being a 0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:07.119 global power, in being competitive. So can you speak to 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:13.200 this this how white supremacy right, how white supremacy, how 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:19.199 this how this mindset is really like it's going to 0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:22.480 be counterproductive. I don't know what else to say. Counterproductive. 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:26.000 How it's going like how the how they are not 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:28.840 seeing the forest through the trees of what it is 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:31.360 that they're doing. Well, I mean, they're creating the world 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:33.359 that they want, but it's the world. It's a kind 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:37.639 of Vladimir Putin and his all the all the advisors 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:41.040 that he hasn't killed, um telling him, oh, the war 0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:44.040 is going great like that, and we're in control. Like 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:46.240 in a way, that's kind of the model. So it's 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:48.920 not like they're you know, and the reason I think 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:52.280 about this, right, So I was at University of Michigan 0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:55.119 when the when the affirmative action cases we're going before 0:23:55.160 --> 0:23:58.400 the courts, and that's coming down the pipe too. All 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:02.399 that is going to get overturned. But all the data 0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:08.199 on affirmative action, for example, from employers, industry, the military 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:13.200 on down made the point that being in a diverse 0:24:13.359 --> 0:24:16.919 education setting, actually it just builds your brain in a 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:20.760 much more complex and nuanced way that lets you much better, 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:24.000 makes you much better at addressing real world problems because 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:25.919 you know how to work with different people and you 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:29.600 respect that different people can bring different skill sets to 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:33.360 complex problems, and that has been shown. It's not just 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:37.840 some woke critical race theory point like I read quite 0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:43.200 often the McKenzie Black Economic Forum, a data for example 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:47.840 that makes this great point about diverse workplaces and how 0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:51.840 diverse workplaces are far better if more people have the 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:54.000 idea that basically they're going to be able to succeed 0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:56.800 within the structure, if they come from different backgrounds, they're 0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:59.159 going to be much better at answering the kind of 0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:04.240 complex problem that for example, consultants are are are faced with, 0:25:04.800 --> 0:25:09.119 and so anyway, it increases predictivity. And then if you 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:12.280 think about it from a city level, for example, like 0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:17.080 the more people who are educated, who are have good jobs, 0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:19.880 who are better, who are taxpayers who feel like they're 0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:22.840 part of what's happening. You're going to increase your tax base, 0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:26.040 You're going to have more infrastructure funds, You're going to 0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:34.440 have more vibrancy in terms of everything from economic entertainment, education, roads, bridges, 0:25:34.560 --> 0:25:36.600 bike lanes, all that kind of stuff. And so in 0:25:36.640 --> 0:25:39.399 a way, that world and that maybe sounds a bit 0:25:39.440 --> 0:25:41.600 come by out, but I mean, there's so much data 0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:44.960 on this point. And conversely, if you just have kind 0:25:45.000 --> 0:25:47.960 of the same people with the same ideology around around 0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:52.320 the table and you're squelching other ideologies, you're really you 0:25:52.359 --> 0:25:54.919 get into the kind of blood and recruitent model right 0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:58.000 now is a great example of like, you just hear 0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:00.720 one viewpoint, it's the one that doesn't make you uncomfortable, 0:26:01.080 --> 0:26:04.400 and then you it's just it's not a good way 0:26:04.400 --> 0:26:06.280 to solve problems, right It turns out like there are 0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:10.320 other perspectives and you end up just hearing what you 0:26:10.359 --> 0:26:13.679 want to hear it and it leads to disaster or 0:26:13.760 --> 0:26:17.399 under productivity. And so the data is pretty overwhelming, and 0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:21.560 yet we're doing exactly the wrong thing right now. So Jonathan, 0:26:21.600 --> 0:26:28.680 what happens, what happens to what give us the real 0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:36.880 stark picture of America ten years from now if there 0:26:37.119 --> 0:26:44.719 is no significant disruption in this ideology taking hold in 0:26:44.760 --> 0:26:50.280 every facet of our society and government. I don't. I 0:26:50.320 --> 0:26:52.680 mean it's funny because like we've done it before, right, 0:26:52.760 --> 0:26:56.040 I mean we in the sixties, we did it in 0:26:56.119 --> 0:26:58.600 the I mean it's not perfect by any stretch of 0:26:58.640 --> 0:27:01.480 the imagination, but it's not like we don't know how 0:27:01.520 --> 0:27:04.840 to do this. We've done it in our But you 0:27:04.960 --> 0:27:08.680 bring up the sixties, and the sixties was a violent time, right, 0:27:08.760 --> 0:27:11.600 Like wet we don't look back at the sixties and 0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:15.680 say this is a you know, we know that black 0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:21.480 and brown people and white allies were practicing non violence 0:27:21.720 --> 0:27:26.960 in the face of abhorrent violence by white people in 0:27:27.080 --> 0:27:33.840 order to reflect to the world how horrendous Jim Crow 0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:38.600 into segregation all of these things were. And so if 0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:42.199 you say that we've done that in the sixties, is 0:27:42.240 --> 0:27:46.159 that what you see as one of the avenues? Because 0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:48.520 to me, and this is something that I've said I've 0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:52.080 been saying on WOKF since I started this show during 0:27:52.119 --> 0:27:54.520 the Trump years, which was that things were going to 0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:57.919 get bloody are before they got better? Is that unavoidable? 0:27:58.000 --> 0:28:00.600 Do you think? Well? I mean the issue for the 0:28:00.640 --> 0:28:03.199 sixties is not to like idealize what was happening. I 0:28:03.200 --> 0:28:05.040 mean it certainly. I think you're exactly right. Was a 0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:10.040 profoundly a profoundly violent time with a lot of people. 0:28:10.119 --> 0:28:12.680 But the legislation that came out of it, the infrastructure 0:28:12.720 --> 0:28:19.480 that we built, the community, mental health movement, voting rights, 0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:26.720 educational factors, things like that, investment in higher education and education. 0:28:26.960 --> 0:28:29.119 I don't think that it was perfect by any stretch 0:28:29.160 --> 0:28:31.600