1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: the podcast and Happy Valentine's Day. I'm Josh. That was 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant. I'm Josh Clark. Um, this is 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: Stuff you should know the podcast the Love Edition. Yeah, 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: let's talk about Valentine's Day and love. Do you want 8 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: to hear a possibly um true Valentine's Day fact so 9 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: you know where we get the concept of sending Valentine's 10 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: Day cards Hallmark. No, it was even earlier than that. 11 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: A little guy by the name of St. Valentine. Okay, 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: again this is uncorroborated, but I'm pretty sure it's true. 13 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: Back in the day, St. Valentine used to hang out 14 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: with the Pagan I believe Greeks maybe uh Romans, one 15 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: of the two and um who had a custom of 16 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: hooking up like picking a partner and you know that 17 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: was who you're gonna be with for the rest of 18 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: the year. Not married, all right, but like all the benefits, 19 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,919 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And um. They to consummate 20 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: that choice. They would you know, go off and hook 21 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: up like that day February same Valentine comes along and goes, 22 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: this is an importance to my god and um, soon 23 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: to be your god. So let's let's figure something else out. 24 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: How about you guys, keep picking people that you want to, 25 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: you know, be friendly with, stop the fornication, and instead 26 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: just send notes of affection to one another. Those became 27 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: as far as I know, the Valentine's Day card. I'm 28 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: sure that sounds sounds good to me, does it all right? Um? 29 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: One of the one of the great symbols of Valentine's Day, Chuck, 30 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: is the heart, which is almost invariably colored red. It's 31 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: a very cute iconography, but if you really think about it, 32 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: what you're seeing is the organ colored by our life blood. 33 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: What happens when something happens to that organ or that 34 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: life blood and it goes from inside that cute little 35 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: heart to being sprayed all over the wall at a 36 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: high speed velocity, A bunch of things happen. A lot 37 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: of tell tale symbols are left behind after the person 38 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: falls forward, killed by the love of their life. On 39 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: Valentine's Day, no less but but bud spatter, Bud spatter. Yeah, 40 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: we should say probably right now, it's not splatter. Blood spatter, which, 41 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: strangely enough, is is a an appropriate interchangeable term or 42 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: phrase for blood pattern analysis can also be called blood 43 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: spatter analysis. To you see that, Yes, it's interchangeable, or 44 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: it can be called that stuffed dexter? Does it? Could 45 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: you like Dexter? Don't you? Yeah? So do you? Okay? 46 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: So I know that I have a lot of bad 47 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: karma coming against me. Um, because let me explain why 48 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 1: it wasn't just a blanket statement. Um, because of the 49 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,839 Speaker 1: three times now that I've ruined um six ft under 50 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: for people who haven't seen the whole thing. But I 51 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: have not seen season five. So if you're gonna talk 52 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: about Dexter, don't give me any clues as to what 53 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: goes on season five aside from the um off camera 54 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: breakup of the marriage between Michael Hall and Jennifer Carpenter. 55 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: That was very sad, but Julia Styles has nothing to 56 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: do with it. She even released a statement she said, 57 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: really she felt like she needed to Yeah, interesting, which 58 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: is not her style usually. No, she's pretty lucky. So chuck, um, 59 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: do you want to talk about dex Uh? Yeah, Well, 60 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: I mean, he's a Nina. What I couldn't find out 61 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: is he's on the show. He is a crime scene 62 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: photographer slash spatter analyst, and I couldn't find if that's 63 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: really a thing. So, Mike, Mike, I'm guessing. I'm positing 64 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: that maybe in some smaller municipalities they may do double 65 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: duty like that, But I bet in Miami they probably 66 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: have a dedicated photographer, dedicated analysts. Uh yeah, Actually, UM, 67 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: from this article, I believe it says that a lot 68 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: of people, um, a lot of people who become blood 69 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: pattern analysts UM, start out as cops or detectives or 70 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: whatever and kind of um find that they have a 71 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: pension for reading blood and they start taking courses and 72 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: workshops and become certified. So I imagine, yeah, it's possible, 73 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: especially in smaller areas, that people are pulling double or 74 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: triple duty like that. Yeah, you're probably not gonna in 75 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: some like tiny county, you're not gonna have a full 76 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: time crime scene photographer, or maybe it's some local that's 77 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: not on the But you know, we'll get to all 78 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: that because this is a two parter. Well one reason 79 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: chuck that um it's not um just an across the 80 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: board filled position or even um available position at every 81 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: every UM police department is because, as it's put in 82 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: the article, it's as much art as science right now. 83 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: It takes a lot of um interpretation and you can't 84 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: just you know, hand the stuff over to the prosecutor 85 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: and they're just like bam, case closed. There's a blood 86 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: pattern analysis. Yeah, look all the blood on the wall. 87 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: He did it. But it is used to corroborate other 88 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: evidence because as we said, it does tell a story 89 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: when um, the person who you love shoot you through 90 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: the heart and spattered your blood all over the wall 91 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: on Valentine's Day, killing you dead. Yeah. Yes, you can 92 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: tell a lot of things, UM. For instance, this list 93 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: that I'm about to the type and velocity of the 94 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: weapon you always hear about. You know this is a 95 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: blunt force thing or knife, stab, wound, gunshot. The number 96 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: of blows that this person uh could withstand before dying 97 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: and even after death. Yeah, I mean think about a 98 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: passion killing, rage killing. Uh, the handedness of the assailant 99 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: because everyone knows, you know, if I was going to 100 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: punch you in the face, to do with my right 101 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: hand hit you on your left cheek, that's how it works. Uh, 102 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: position of the victim, and like whether or not they 103 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: were moved or they flailed around on the floor for 104 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: a little while trying to trying to live, pull themselves 105 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,239 Speaker 1: to safety. Perhaps um, the wound that was inflicted first, 106 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: like this was to kill wound, and all this other 107 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: stuff happened because it was just a sicko type of injury. 108 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 1: How long ago the body has been there, and whether 109 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: it was an immediate death or whether they bled out 110 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: over the course of hours or whether they Yeah, if 111 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: it was an immediate death in the blood just kind 112 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: of pulled where they fell, or if they're smears from 113 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: them crawling or something like that, which would indicate that 114 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: death was delayed or being dragged. Maybe there's nobody. Yeah, 115 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: I think that I took from this. It wasn't explicitly said, 116 00:06:55,279 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: but there's UM. You can, especially with an old crime scene, UM, 117 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: learn a lot about something where there's no other evidence 118 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: just from the blood, like UM, skeletonized blood. Yeah, blood 119 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: can actually where there was once a blood droplet, it 120 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: can skeletonize and flick away and there will be no drop, 121 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: but there will be an outline ring around where the 122 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: drop was. Right. Um. You can also uh tell from 123 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: the amount of clotting that's taken place. Apparently, once clotting starts, 124 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: you know that, um, it's been at least fifteen minutes, 125 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: which probably isn't that helpful, but it's been at least 126 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes since the blood exited the body. So like 127 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: we didn't come up on the person died more than 128 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes ago, we can say that, um. And then 129 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: but if some stuffs more clotted than others, you can 130 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: tell that, um, the attack took place over a period 131 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: of time. Sure, and we talked about in crimes can 132 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: clean up obviously, how it can harden, brain can harden 133 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: on walls. So it's not just blood. They're looking at 134 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: all sorts of bone fragments and pieces of whatever that's 135 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: in you that is no longer in you. But as 136 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: we'll see, just the presence of of say brain and 137 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: skull fragments UM indicates a head wound. It does you're 138 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: all on your way to being certified. UM. And it 139 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: also usually indicates you know, probably what type of weapons 140 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: we'll see later. Right. Uh. The cool thing about blood, though, Josh, 141 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: is that it's very predictable. It's very cohesive, has a 142 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: lot of surface tensions, so the molecules like buying really tight, 143 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: so it's always a little round sphere until it hits something. 144 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: And when it hits something, it's really predictable what happens, 145 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: like you can read it and pretty much be able 146 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: to tell things that will get into like angle and 147 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: velocity and stuff like that with some certainty, so much 148 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: that they use in court. Yes, they do to put 149 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: people in the pokey sometimes unfairly. We will see that too. 150 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: Should we talk about the types of spatter? This is 151 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: my favorite part. The three types of spatter hit it? 152 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: Then okay, well there's low velocity, medium velocity, and high velocity, right, 153 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: and that sounds pretty stupid, but there's um the different 154 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: characteristics of each type of velocity group. Right. Um. So 155 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: you know when when blood moves, like you said, it 156 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: follows like predictable patterns. Um. Gravity, force, surface tension keeps 157 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: it together. Um. And for example, say how high up 158 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: a blood drop drips from is going to determine how 159 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: spread out that drop is, sure, because it has more 160 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: time to accelerate and a greater force when it hits 161 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: the ground. Then if it's you know, an inch or 162 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: two off of the ground. So that's a pretty good 163 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: example of a low spatter velocity of blood drip, right, Yeah, 164 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: Like I've been stabbed and I'm laying on my couch 165 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: with my arm dangling off and it's just dripping off 166 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: my fingertip twelve inches to the carpet below. That's great. 167 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: The the force that's acting on this low velocity blood 168 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 1: spatter is gravity, nothing else, right. Um. They usually come 169 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: from stab wounds, like you said. Uh. And then some 170 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: of the properties of a of a low velocity blood spatter, Um, 171 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: the force of impact is less than five ft per second, 172 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: not much. That's not much. Um, that's like a blood drop, right, Yeah, 173 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: between usually between four and eight millimeters. That's about the 174 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: size you're gonna get with a low veloci And like 175 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: you said, um, it's it's you've been stabbed and you're 176 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: laying there. So most of the low velocity blood spatters, 177 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: uh come about after an attack, after the injury has 178 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: been sustained. Right, It's not sprayed all over the wall. Right. 179 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: So stabbing is a pretty good Usually it's stabbing is 180 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: low velocity or vice versa. Um, and uh. One type 181 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: of low velocity blood spatter from stabbing is called a 182 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: passive spatter. That's after you've been stabbed and you're walking 183 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: around and you're basically leaving a dripping blood trail. Ye, 184 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:54,719 Speaker 1: should we at this point say that this might be 185 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: a little gruesome? It's too late. I think it's a 186 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: little late. A right, I guess we could go to 187 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: the trouble went back and inserting it. But I predict, 188 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: hold on, I predict we will not. We will not. 189 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:05,719 Speaker 1: So let's just say that now you can turn it 190 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: off at this point if you have already, if you're 191 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: a little creeped out by blood, which I am, Are 192 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: you really? Yeah? I mean not you picked these? Yeah, 193 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: But I mean it doesn't mean we shouldn't cover it. 194 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: I'm not like, I don't have a true phobia, but 195 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: I mean, who likes seeing large amounts of blood and 196 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: that bright, bright red white surfaces? It's have you ever 197 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: passed out at the side of blood? No? No No, it's 198 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: not that bad. I had a roommate in college named 199 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: John Johnson real name, who was shucking oysters down in 200 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: Florida when we were down at the beach once and uh, 201 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: he shucked the meat of the palm of his hand 202 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: and looked at it, and none of us knew that 203 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: he was afraid of his own blood and just fell 204 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: right over. And he was a big boy, so he 205 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: made quite a clamor he he came to and you know, 206 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: it was okay after that, but he fainted dead away 207 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: at the sight of his own blood. Well, I'm I 208 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I've never seen something really, really, really gruesome. 209 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: So have you never seen pictures? Yeah? I don't like 210 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: that stuff. I don't either, but um, yeah, I'm not 211 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: into it, but people are and we'll get to that too. 212 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: Medium velocity is next, and that has a force from 213 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: five to one ft per second, diameter no more than 214 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: formula millimeters usually, and that can be caused by a 215 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: blunt object or I love this line, like a baseball 216 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: bat or an intense beating with a fist. You've gotta 217 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: be a tough guy, dude. If you're If you can 218 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: have the same impact as a baseball bat with your fist, 219 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: then you're either doing something right or wrong, or you 220 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,079 Speaker 1: are you're using breath knuckles. Yeah, that's true. So that 221 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: could also be from a stabbing. Actually, um, and in 222 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: this case, if you damage an artery, something can happen 223 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: called projected blood, and that means you're laying there and 224 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: as long as your heart's beating, it's really pumping that 225 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: blood out and it can project in a very distinctive pattern. Evidently. Yeah. 226 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: I mean like if you if you ever see somebody 227 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: who's um carotid artery has been punctured and they have 228 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: their hand there, it's just like spewing from between their fingers. 229 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: It's projected blood. That's medium velocity, which can be compared 230 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: to a like, um, a good squirt gun. What are 231 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: those ones called supersuckers, like that kind of spray, um, 232 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: And it's not just the heart that's projecting it. And 233 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: that's a that's a good example of media velocity, the 234 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: heart pumping the blood and projecting it out of the body. Right. Um. 235 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: Another medium velocity blood spatter is let's say, um, you're 236 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 1: beating somebody with a lead pipe when you're drawing back 237 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: again to exactly that's what I thought of too. I 238 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,439 Speaker 1: thought about that, Um, when you're drawing back for another blow, 239 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: you're you're whipping the blood off of the lead pipe 240 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: after that first blow. So that's medium medium velocity, which 241 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: you said is about uh five percent. Yeah, okay, So 242 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: then you have high velocity, which is pretty much a 243 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: gunshot wound, and that's more than a hundred feet per second. 244 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 1: That's when blood is really hauling. You've got tiny little 245 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 1: sprays on the wall or wherever, and that's the one 246 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: where you're gonna find like tissue and bone usually along 247 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: with the blood. Chances are um less than one millimeter 248 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: in diameter, and you can either have you can have 249 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: front spatters, back spatters or both. If the bullet goes 250 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: through you, you're gonna have both. Yeah, and then exit one. Yeah. 251 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: I think about it like anytime you see somebody get shot, 252 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: like the blood almost doesn't spatter, like you'll just start 253 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: soaking the shirt or something like that and don't look behind. Yeah, 254 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: you look behind and all of a sudden, there's a 255 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: huge hole because of cavitatione full metal jacket comes to mind. 256 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So you have seen grewsome things in the movie. 257 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: What is your major mouth function? Uh? And my favorite 258 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: thing in this on this page was the bit about 259 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: internal muzzle staining and stippling. Sick stuff, but pretty awesome too. 260 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: Yeah if basically and well, I guess it could happen 261 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: in any kind of gunshot that's close. But I think 262 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: of an execution style murder, like when the mobster says, 263 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: we need to whack Jimmy two ft. I guess two 264 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: ft would be normal. But yeah, he's got he's the 265 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: most nondescript gangster of all time exactly which one again? Um, 266 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: So they would put the gun like up to his head, 267 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: and in that case, the skin, if there's still a body, 268 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: can have burns from the gunpowder, and the inside of 269 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: the muzzle, because of the cooling of the explosive gas used, 270 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: can actually suck blood back inside of the gun. Yeah, 271 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: the spray that fine myth. So if you're lucky enough 272 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: to get ahold of that gun, they can swab the 273 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: inside and like this is Jimmy two feets blood on 274 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: the inside of your muzzle here, buddy, that's how you 275 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: just throw it in the East river. Yeah, or use 276 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: the old pillow method. Don't don't be cheap, right, Wow, 277 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: I just gave advice to murderers. Yeah, that's weird. I 278 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: guess we did. I've never done that before. Uh. The 279 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: other thing, I'm sure you have it. The other thing 280 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: that they can look for is, uh, you got to 281 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: use brass knuckles is a void and avoid is where 282 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: let's say I were to kill somebody and the blood 283 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: is spraying on me and the wall behind me. That 284 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: will be uh, you're gonna leave a handsome silhouette. Yeah, 285 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: not an outline of a body like a cartoon. But 286 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: there will be avoid there where they said, you know, 287 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: something or somebody got in the way of the blood spatter. 288 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: Don't find me that shirt, which is now in a trash. 289 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: Can find me that last chance garage hat covered in blood, 290 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: that'd be bad news. I love that hat, So Chuck, 291 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: you've seen Dexter. We talked about this, right, see them all? Yeah, 292 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: I have to except for season five, right, oh Dexter. 293 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: I thought you meant like all crime. Oh no, no, 294 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: I've seen each episode. Sorry, Um, well, surely you've seen 295 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: then at least I know for a fact. And at 296 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: least one episode he's messing with like these red strings 297 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: in the room. That's when the art department really gets involved. Yeah, 298 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: so this you can you can imagine. Check this is 299 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: a very painstaking process, each each of these lines, not 300 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: just for the art department, but this happens in real life. 301 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: It's it's a method of figuring out the angle of um, 302 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: the path of blood. Yeah, I thought this might be outdated, 303 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: but they still use it sometimes they do. Um. Well, 304 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: let's there was something that the article I thought left out, 305 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: and it was the importance of determining the angle. It 306 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,239 Speaker 1: just went into how we figure out angles. Um. But 307 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: there's a lot of import in figuring out what angle 308 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: these this blood spray travel traveled, right, Yeah, because it 309 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: will tell you a lot of times. You know that 310 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 1: the person who fired the weapon was probably taller than 311 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: six ft because the gun was at a certain level, 312 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: and so was it a man? Was it likely a man? 313 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: Was it likely a woman based on the height? Right? Um, 314 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: the if if it's a downward angle, then that might 315 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: corroborate the idea that this person was killed execution style, 316 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: which juries like to hear about if that's going on, 317 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: because that's like get on your knees type of thing. Usually, Yeah, 318 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: that's pretty cold blooded. Um. If somebody's pleading self defense 319 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: and said they were on the floor, an upward angle 320 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: would would corroborate that and might you know, get them 321 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: off in their self defense plea. Um. There's a lot 322 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: of reasons why figuring out the angle is very important, right, agreed, 323 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: And it's also probably the most scientific of um. Blood 324 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: pattern analysis math heavy, triggeronometry heavy. Yeah, we tried, we 325 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 1: should say, we tried to find a math heavy and 326 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 1: I made the mistake of emailing our editorial department to 327 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: get someone to describe it. And I thought, we're all 328 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: half hearted attempt That's why we're writers. So we don't 329 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: have to do math, especially not triggering out we do 330 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: now though I think I have this lift, but it's 331 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: really not that hard. Actually, once I reread anytime. Let's 332 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: talk about the strings for first, So it is you do? Uh? 333 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: You do? They do use these strings, elastic strings. Each 334 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 1: one represents a drop of blood. So if you have 335 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: a lot of drops of blood, you're gonna have a 336 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: lot of strings. It's gonna take a while, right, um. 337 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: But you you create a you you find a level, 338 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: right like you create a level point. You start running 339 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: strings through the level point from the blood to you know, 340 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: somewhere else in space, the wall or ceiling, and then 341 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, after you start doing a few 342 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: of these strings, you're gonna find that they all come 343 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 1: together at a certain point. And that point is the 344 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: area of convergence a k a. What was originally a 345 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: person's head, right, and that's where all the blood came from. 346 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: So you're gonna find where where, where they on the ground, 347 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: where they up high. Um, basically you're creating in real 348 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: life a three dimensional model of the path this blood 349 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: took right and where the person was standing, where they 350 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: were in relationship to the wall, all that stuff. You're 351 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: probably going to figure out, um, how the person was 352 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: attacked from what side, that kind of thing. So that's 353 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: it's it's very important and that's the old school, really 354 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: methodical way to do it, right. Yeah, you're gonna explain 355 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: the trigonomic This is for college boy blood pattern analysts. 356 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, because I'll explain the way I 357 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: would do it short, okay, which I think is actually 358 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: how the um how this this article describes it. Well, 359 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: we'll see how Chuck would do it. Okay. So, um, 360 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: when blood hits when when blood hits a surface, whether 361 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: it's drywall or the floor or the ceiling or something 362 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: like that, if it if it falls or travels uh 363 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: straight up and down, it's it's that's a ninety degree angle. Yeah, 364 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: you're gonna get a little roundrop you get a round drop. 365 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: But the the stronger the angle right, the more severe 366 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: the angle, the drop starts to elongate. It's like you 367 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: know when you skip a stone. It's kind of like that, 368 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: or when you spill any liquid, And that's another way 369 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: to put it. So as it um, as it elongates, 370 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: it gets longer and thinner. And what you can actually 371 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: do is take the measurements of each one of these drops, right, 372 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: and you take let me see if I got this chuck, 373 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: you take the width right, so obviously we were writers. 374 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: Anytime this comes up, you take the width and you 375 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: divide it by the length, and that gives you a number. Yes, 376 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 1: this is trigonometry by the way um and you deter 377 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 1: you take that number and you use a calculator and 378 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: you use the arc sign function. Don't ask us to 379 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: really explain how to come even in the even in 380 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: the article like I couldn't find it. And arc sign 381 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: is the converse of sign or co sign one of 382 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: those um And basically what you're finding is the angle 383 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: of a right triangle by taking the opposite side and 384 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 1: dividing it by the hypothenuse, and that will give you 385 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: once you figure out the arc sign of that number 386 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 1: the angle. And that's the college boy way of figuring 387 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: out the angle that blood traveled from the area of 388 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: convergence exactly. So a quick example, if you have a 389 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: two millimeter wide blood stain that's four millimeters long, you 390 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: divide that and you get point five, and the arc 391 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: sign of that is thirty. And we figured out the 392 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: arc sign of five is thirty. Point five is thirty 393 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: by using that calculator, and thirty would be your angle. 394 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 1: That means a thirty degree angle is is what you're 395 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: looking at, right, So this is how Chuck would do it. 396 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: Chuck would get a computer program called No More Strings. 397 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: I guess they couldn't use no strings attached. That's what 398 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: I would have called it. Maybe you can make a 399 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: competing program maybe so, uh, no More Strings is a 400 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: program that actually creates a three dimensional model and you 401 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: plug in all your numbers and it does it for 402 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: you with uh computer animation. And that's I want to 403 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: say modern. It is modern, but they do still use 404 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: a string method um and a lot of times they 405 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: say that will be more convincing to a jury if 406 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: they can look at animation. Then hear some nerd uh 407 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: explain it? In front of them while they're falling asleep exactly. No, 408 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: I mean I think that's very much the case. That's 409 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: probably why that software is probably more used than either 410 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: of the other two methods these days. Yeah, I would 411 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: call it the jury Swayer program. That's what I would 412 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: call it. I would call it the widow Maker. Alright. Uh, 413 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: a little history, Yeah, we usually cover that first, but 414 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: we didn't. I think this, U this is a fine article. 415 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: I like the way it was paced and then laid out. Yeah, 416 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: very detailed. It's been around actually since the eight nineties. 417 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: They've been you know, analyzing blood stains and spatter, but 418 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: they didn't really start using it until much later. The 419 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: the first guy I love the name of this book, 420 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: the first guy from the Institute of Forensic Medicine in Poland. 421 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: His name was Dr Eduard Pietrowski, wrote a book called 422 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: concerning the Origin, shape, Direction, and Distribution of the blood 423 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: Stains following head wounds caused by blows and imagine that 424 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: was also his uh how we got the ladies alright, 425 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: telling me wrote that, but showing his book to the ladies, 426 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: and uh, it would be I think probably about fifty 427 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: years later that they actually started using these interpretations in court. 428 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: That guy laid the groundwork for how to do it 429 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: at least for a beating. Yeah, for Paul Kirk. Yeah, 430 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 1: and Paul Kirk was a physician UM in Ohio. Right. Yeah, 431 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: there's a case of Samuel Shepard being prosecuted for murder 432 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: and Dr kirk um figured out from blood spatter analysis 433 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: where UM Samuel Shepard was when he attacked the victim. Allegedly, Well, 434 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: he was prosecuted so or convicted, so that's the fact. 435 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: And then it also showed that UM sam Shephard or 436 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: that the victim was attacked with by a left handed person. 437 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: But I'm assuming Sam Shepard was one the case bamp. 438 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: Blood spatter analysis is on the map. I wonder what 439 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: the jury thought about that first, because it means now 440 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: it's so all over the place, you know, all about 441 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: the stuff. But the first time someone like recreated a 442 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: scene and said he was this tall and left handed, 443 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: were they like, Wow, that's amazing or what are you 444 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: talking about? I wonder probably why it's amazing, Just like 445 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: once today, have you heard of the c S I effect? Yeah, 446 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 1: we talked about it, did we. Yeah, it was a 447 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: long time ago. It was between episode zero and one. 448 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: But explain it because we have new listeners. Oh well, 449 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: welcome new listen hey, new listeners, listen up. The c 450 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: s I effect is basically juries watching things like c 451 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: s I dexter all this um television ized um blood 452 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: spatter analysis or forensic science and expecting that so if 453 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: a prosecutor fails to deliver, that means that the case 454 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: isn't all that great. Or conversely, if the prosecutor of 455 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: the defense can deliver some whiz bang, no more strings, 456 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: three D graphics of somebody getting shot or not getting shot, 457 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: the jury is swayed because you know, that's how you 458 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: weren't that's how you win a case. So, um, there's 459 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,239 Speaker 1: a there's an expectation that a case has to have 460 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. That's the c s I effect. 461 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: Someone going that's not how they do it on TV, 462 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, or hey, that's exactly how they do it 463 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: on TV probably has the reverse effect to You could 464 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: also just as easily call it the Dancing with the 465 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: Stars effect the American idol effect, like, well, those are 466 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: different effects, but they have the same effect. Bleeding, deadening, 467 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: combing down. Uh, there was a third gentleman Josh and 468 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: the history of blood spatter analysis Dr Herbert McDonald, And 469 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: he came around in the early set. He wasn't born 470 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: in the early seventies, because I'd be pretty young to 471 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: be studying this guy thinks the house or blood spatter. 472 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 1: My brother worked on that. He came into prominence with 473 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: blood spatter in nineteen seventy one and wrote a book 474 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,479 Speaker 1: about it, probably more updated version than the Polish Gentleman. 475 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: And he started training officers in that and got together 476 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: at a convention in nineteen eighty three and said to 477 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: his fellow guys like, yeah, we should start a group. 478 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: We just started an organization. Imagine get pretty loaded out 479 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: of blood spatter I convention. And so they did. They 480 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: started the International Association of blood Stained Pattern Analysis Analyst. 481 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: That's a great chuck. I hope I don't get in 482 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: trouble for that. I don't think you will. Yeah, he 483 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: was a great guy. He didn't try to murderers earlier. 484 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: Chamberlain case. Should we go ahead and hit this one? Yeah? 485 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: You're a fan of Seinfeld. Are you familiar with the 486 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: maybe a dink I wake out baby? Yeah? Yeah? Wow. 487 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 1: That was Elaine doing her best Meryl Streep who actually 488 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 1: said the ding I ate my baby, who was doing 489 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: her best. Lyndy Chamberlaine, who in real life said a 490 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: dingo ate my baby. Um, and is what the original 491 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: line was, and I think Elaine changed it to eight. 492 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: That's much more severe either way either way. In nineteen 493 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: eighty in Australia, the Chamberlain family, Richard and Lyndy and 494 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: their two kids, Zaria and Reagan, were camping Air's Rock 495 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: another kid they had third there too. Actually they did 496 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: it never gets any press, okay, it's like I want 497 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: to stay out of this. Um. Well, they were camping 498 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: with their three kids at Air's Rock and apparently, uh Lynda, 499 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: the mom noticed a dingo near her kid's tent and 500 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: went over and saw the dingo. I guess it was 501 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: nighttime running off with something. She said, she couldn't see what, 502 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: but when she looked at the inside the tent, she 503 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: saw that the four week old or ten week old 504 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: Azaria was missing and that there was blood. So there 505 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: was a huge search of this park and they found 506 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: a dingo, layer found the baby's clothes and now bloody 507 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: and UM basically didn't buy the mom's story or the 508 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: parents story that it was a dingo. They think that 509 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: they thought pretty quickly off the bat that there was 510 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: something fishy, something kinky, as you would say, um, and 511 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: they started investigating her and kind of under the assumption 512 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: that this that they framed a dingo, they'd actually murdered 513 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: their baby. Yeah. That A couple of the things that 514 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: happened was they found um. When they found the little jumper, 515 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: it was not torn that much. It was bloody, but 516 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: the snaps were closed and it looked as it had 517 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: been pulled off of a body. Um. The keep key 518 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: thing that happened was is the mom said, Lindy said, 519 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: you know, there was a jacket, she had a jacket on, 520 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: and they didn't find any jacket at all. And Uh. 521 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: The other thing that happened was the Yeah, there was 522 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: a witness, not a witness, but someone nearby camping that 523 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: obviously when all the bruhaha started, she came over there 524 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: and she saw the cops pick up the jumper and 525 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: just fold it and take it away. And even she, 526 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: I think at the time, thought you probably shouldn't be 527 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: handling evidence like that. It's not the way to do it. 528 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: And they didn't photo document the scene right now, big mistake. 529 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: They basically mishandled all the evidence in the thing. They 530 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: were hit cops from Central Australia handling, handling like a 531 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: huge murder case or a huge death case. Yeah, so 532 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: they muddled the whole thing to the point where there 533 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: was just basically a lot of speculation. Uh. They had 534 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: one expert testify that from the blood stain on the 535 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: jumper it looked like a throat was cut, and that's 536 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: pretty much what sealed her fate to be convicted. Well, 537 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: what also sealed her fate, um is that she remained 538 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: very cool and unemotional throughout this trial, and the jury 539 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: hated her. They did not like her. They didn't understand 540 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: why a woman could remain collected her baby was dead, 541 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: let alone when she's being tried for it, you know, 542 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: if she hadn't really killed the baby. So in addition 543 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: to just blotched, botched handling, a blood pattern analysis or no, 544 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: no real blood pattern analysis. Um, it was you know, 545 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: her demeanor that helped convict her as well. I want 546 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: to see that movie. I haven't seen it. I haven't either, 547 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: I just know about it for some reason. Yeah, Well 548 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,239 Speaker 1: she got an Academy award nomination, but all she has 549 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: to do a show up and she gets an Academy 550 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: work on manation. Not necessarily true, Let's get real. No 551 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: you bout this point out a stinker of Meryl streeps. 552 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: I'm just saying she's played the same character a few times. 553 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: Oh please, Okay, we won't go down that road. Um. 554 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: What happened to the Chamberlain's well, she was convicted of murder, 555 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: and he was convicted right to as well of being 556 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: an accessory or some a accessory to murder. Right yes, 557 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: And she was in jail, sent to prison for life. 558 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: And then three years later her a guy was hiking 559 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: in a similar area, felt it was death. Oh my god. 560 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: And when they went and found his body, he was 561 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: near a dingo layer, several dingo layers, and they found 562 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: the missing jacket just by chance, because this guy had 563 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: fallen to his death. They did that, and I don't, 564 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: as far as I know, Richard Chamberlayne did not push 565 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: him to his death so they could find the planted jacket. 566 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: So they actually said, no, this clears you, guys. We 567 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: found the jacket years later, covered with blood near dingo layers. Torn. 568 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: Sorry you got here's one point three She got one 569 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: point three mill Australian it pounds Australian dollars Australian units 570 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: of money, austrillion dollars dollars and apparently that was only 571 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: about a third of their legal fees. So it's not 572 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: the happiest ending. Although she did end up out of 573 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: jail and exonerated. She got to meet Meryl Streep. I imagine, 574 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: so I wonder if she met Leah Louis Dreyfuss. Probably not, 575 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: probably not so. Um, that's blood pattern analysis. There's a 576 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: lot of really cool graphics and illustrations. Did you see those? 577 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: And by graphics we don't mean awful awful pictures. There's 578 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: some pictures of blood and if you read the captions 579 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: you're like, um, but no, it's not like anything that 580 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: the average person couldn't handle. Um. But now there's some 581 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: cool illustrations of how you figure out areas of convergence. 582 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: That kind of stuff really puts the punch into trigonometry. 583 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: That's what how stuff works. Does absolutely type in blood, 584 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: just blood, it'll bring up a bunch of cool stuff. 585 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: But if you really want to do a good search, 586 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: do blood pattern in the search bar. The bloody bleeding 587 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: gushing search bar at how stuff works dot com. And 588 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: since I said bloody bleedy blood what did I say 589 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: bloody bleeding search part? Since I said that, it means 590 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: it's time for the listener mail. Josh, I gonna call 591 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: this uh mlingling monk Housers. Jerry either laughed at that 592 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: or she blue snot because she's sick. This is from Brooks, 593 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 1: and Brooks says, Hi, guys and Jerry, I've been loving 594 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: your podcasts for the last few weeks, new new listener. 595 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: If loving our podcast is wrong, brook doesn't want to 596 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: be right while he's been driving forty five minutes to 597 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: a different hospital for his eer rotation. He's a fourth 598 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: year med student. During the monk Housen podcast, you mentioned 599 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: m lingering, which made me think of one of the 600 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: patients we saw in the e R last week. And 601 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: he says that this doesn't violate any hippo oath because 602 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: he doesn't have any like details. At ma'am. I don't 603 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: know if I believe him, but we'll see. Young guy 604 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 1: came in complaining of sudden onset flank pain classic for 605 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: kidney stones. We asked him for a urine sample to 606 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: check for microscopic blood. Our first clue that something was 607 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: up should have been when he asked if we needed 608 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: to watch him supply the sample. That's only roots sen 609 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: procedure and drug testing, not medical testing. When we got 610 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: the sample from him, it was totally bloody and we 611 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: knew it was contaminating, so we asked him for a 612 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 1: catheterized specimen, and I was totally shocked when he said, Okay, 613 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: not many people think the catheter. I think he was shocked. Yeah, 614 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: I think he was shocked by the size of the 615 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: tube used to get the sample. He nearly jumped off 616 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: the table during the process, but during his moving an 617 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: empty blood vial shook out of his pocket. What we 618 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: concluded was that he had stolen a vial of his 619 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 1: own blood from a lab earlier in the day brought 620 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: it to the e R with a goal of convincing 621 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: us he had a kidney stone his secondary gain aside 622 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: from a lingering painkillers. Yeah, my boss was not amused, 623 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: though I was. I just thought you'd enjoy hearing about 624 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: a good solid case of lingering from j D of Scrubs, 625 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: from Brooks of Josh in predemption. It's a good one. Brooks. 626 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,439 Speaker 1: We appreciate thanks for sending that in. That's awesome. Good 627 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: luck med student, fourth year, fourth year. Good luck in 628 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: the real world. We're pulling for you. Keep sending us 629 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: cool stories. My mom was an ear nurse for decades 630 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: and she always had the best stories ever. Yeah. Um, 631 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: if you have a good story about probably not too 632 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: many blood spatter stories. That a good Valentine's Day story. 633 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 1: We want to hear it. Wrap it up sending in 634 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: an email to stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com. 635 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 636 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. To learn more about the podcast, 637 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,720 Speaker 1: click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner 638 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 1: of our homepage. The house Stuff Works iPhone app has arrived. 639 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: Download it today on iTunes, brought to you by the 640 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,399 Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. It's ready, are you