WEBVTT - We Need A Law About This? 

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<v Speaker 1>Do we need a law about this? It's one more thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm strong and getty, one more thing. So we got

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<v Speaker 1>to figure this out as a society, either morally and

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<v Speaker 1>culturally or actually legally, where we are on the whole.

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<v Speaker 1>Somebody whipping out their cell phone and recording you and

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<v Speaker 1>then what they can do with it and all that.

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<v Speaker 1>Joe who almost went to law school is going to

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<v Speaker 1>at some point say, there's no expectation of privaty privacy.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, public place, You've saved me the trouble.

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<v Speaker 1>But that was that was that meant different, That meant

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<v Speaker 1>something different when only if you were wanting to spend

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<v Speaker 1>three thousand dollars on a on a moving video camera

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<v Speaker 1>and carry it around, were you capable of videoing anybody?

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<v Speaker 1>Now everybody can video everybody all the time. There was

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<v Speaker 1>no reason to care about that particular rule.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and that has more to do with the government,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, surveilling you than anything. You cannot use someone's

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<v Speaker 2>image and likeness for profit without their signing a release

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<v Speaker 2>of some sort.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you know that? I think there are thirty states

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<v Speaker 1>that are one party consent states for recording someone. Most

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<v Speaker 1>states are not that not like California, where like, if

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna we we can't call somebody up on the

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<v Speaker 1>phone like you could in the old days on radio,

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<v Speaker 1>which was a lot of fun, call somebody up and

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<v Speaker 1>put them on the air without them knowing it, or

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<v Speaker 1>record them without them knowing it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's actually a different law. Those are two different questions. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>airing somebody's a different question. How about just recording them?

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<v Speaker 2>Just recording? Uh yeah, yeah, what about it?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't I don't think you should be able to

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<v Speaker 1>record me without me knowing it. I don't care who

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<v Speaker 1>you are.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh No. Although the counter argument is like if somebody's

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<v Speaker 2>threatening you or defrauding you, or committing any other than

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<v Speaker 2>there are dozens of examples, you're not allowed to get

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<v Speaker 2>the proof of it that you need, Katie.

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<v Speaker 3>I So I have a question back to what you said, Joe,

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<v Speaker 3>where you can't make a profit off of a video

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<v Speaker 3>of somebody.

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<v Speaker 2>Else mm hmm. Theoretically, I mean, like, if you're in

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<v Speaker 2>a documentary, they got to have everybody's got to sign

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<v Speaker 2>a release right of some sort, although I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>the fine print on that, so you know, don't start

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<v Speaker 2>doing a documentary on my say.

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<v Speaker 3>So I'm just thinking about like those videos that go

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<v Speaker 3>viral somebody puts on they're about to talk about.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's let's do this and then we can get

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<v Speaker 1>into the specifics, because we're going to talk about this

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<v Speaker 1>story which went viral a week or so ago. Maybe

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<v Speaker 1>you've heard the outlines of it of a woman who

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't give up her seat on a plane to a child,

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<v Speaker 1>and then some other woman took out her phone and

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<v Speaker 1>recorded it, and the woman who wouldn't give up a

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<v Speaker 1>seat became the bad person. Here's the here's a news

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<v Speaker 1>report version of this.

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<v Speaker 4>Plane passenger is being publicly berated by a furious mom

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<v Speaker 4>for refusing to swap seats with her toddler. Jennifer Castro

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<v Speaker 4>was filmed calmly ignoring the angry mother's request after she

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<v Speaker 4>boarded the Gol Airlines domestic flight in Brazil in December.

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<v Speaker 4>When she boarded the plane, Jennifer found a toddler sitting

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<v Speaker 4>in her window seat and asked him to move, which

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<v Speaker 4>caused the tod to start crying. When she refused to move,

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<v Speaker 4>the mother pulled out her phone and started filming Jennifer

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<v Speaker 4>and said, I'm recording your face.

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<v Speaker 2>This is disgusting.

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<v Speaker 4>It's the twenty first century and people have no empathy

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<v Speaker 4>for children.

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<v Speaker 1>So what happens from here is the mom posts the

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<v Speaker 1>video of this awful human being who, in her words,

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<v Speaker 1>who wouldn't give up her seat to the three year

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<v Speaker 1>old one to sit at the window seat. Got to

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<v Speaker 1>admit I probably would have given up my seat, but

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<v Speaker 1>you don't have to posts it. It ends up with

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<v Speaker 1>two point one million views as of this. The woman

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<v Speaker 1>who wouldn't give up her seat gets, you know, out

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<v Speaker 1>of the way that these people do and says she

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<v Speaker 1>had to quit her job and was getting threats and

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't walk down the street and emotional this and that,

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<v Speaker 1>and is suing the airline for allowing this to happen.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know how the airline comes in. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>And then, but just in general, if I have the

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<v Speaker 1>worst day of my life, and what would be a

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<v Speaker 1>good example, Okay, yell at a waiter at a restaurant,

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<v Speaker 1>not cool, shouldn't do it? But I do it, and

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<v Speaker 1>somebody gets it on video and posts it, and I

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<v Speaker 1>mean it material effects effects my life? Is that just

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<v Speaker 1>a world we're going to live in forever?

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<v Speaker 3>Now?

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<v Speaker 2>Number one, throw your meal on them. If you're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>go that far, just throw that meal right into their chest, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>like Gordon Ramsay, like we were talking about the other day,

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<v Speaker 2>Just push it right into their chest. They're wearing a

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<v Speaker 2>white shirt to leave the mark. Uh wow, yeah, I don't,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't. Are you talking ethics law?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it needs to be dealt with either ethnically, morally

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<v Speaker 1>or legally. All right, But if we're just gonna live

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<v Speaker 1>in a world where your worst moment is up for

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<v Speaker 1>grabs for anybody who has their phone out and they

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<v Speaker 1>can just make you look like an ass clown to

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<v Speaker 1>the whole world, affect your reputation, maybe your kids at

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<v Speaker 1>school or your job. Everything is up for grabs all

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<v Speaker 1>the time. Are we gonna put some sort of limits

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<v Speaker 1>on this? Can we do we turn against this Somehow

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<v Speaker 1>do we turn against people who whip out their phones

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<v Speaker 1>and record this stuff? I doubt we can ever get there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, you yourself have said as if I we

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<v Speaker 2>need more shaming for avererant behavior in the modern world, not.

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<v Speaker 1>Less right, But uh yeah, let me try to think

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<v Speaker 1>about well, yeah, this is this is the problem.

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<v Speaker 2>People with bad judgment get to do it too.

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<v Speaker 1>Whatever it is, right, So I I do believe that

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<v Speaker 1>we need more shaming, not less. For like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you're you're you should be ashamed of begging for money.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you should be ashamed. You should really want

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<v Speaker 1>to not have to beg for money.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, shame. But you should have your hair cut from

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<v Speaker 2>your head and be paraded naked through town with a

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<v Speaker 2>lady shaking a bell at you and shouting shame.

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<v Speaker 1>I agree completely, But shaming people for really just human nature,

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<v Speaker 1>which is everybody loses their temper sometimes or whatever.

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<v Speaker 3>You have it in public like that?

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<v Speaker 1>Are you gonna are you gonna? Are you gonna hope

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<v Speaker 1>to like never lose your temper in public ever in

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<v Speaker 1>your life? Have you never lost the control? Yeah to

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<v Speaker 1>be ashamed?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, exactly quick videotaping Katie on it.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I don't think I actually haven't. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think I have an instance of ever losing my

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<v Speaker 1>temper in public that I would be like horrified to

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<v Speaker 1>have on video. I don't think that's ever happened. So

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<v Speaker 1>I'm using a I'm using a hypothetical that doesn't even

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<v Speaker 1>apply to me.

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<v Speaker 3>So that this takes me back to my question, is

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<v Speaker 3>if it racked up that many views. Whoever posted that

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<v Speaker 3>video got some monetary blowback.

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<v Speaker 1>Right they are they are an influencer, or at least

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<v Speaker 1>now they're an influencer.

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<v Speaker 2>So they they.

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<v Speaker 1>Weren't, They weren't an influencer before, but they become an

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<v Speaker 1>influencer because they got, you know, millions of followers.

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<v Speaker 3>And if millions of people go to their page and

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<v Speaker 3>start clicking on their other content, now it's a cash

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<v Speaker 3>cow based off of this chick's situation on this plane.

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<v Speaker 2>So the question before me then is if something not

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<v Speaker 2>for commercial purposes inadvertently makes money in Brazil and it

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<v Speaker 2>happened in public, what are the laws on this emerging field.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have a fucking idea.

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<v Speaker 1>But we gotta, we gotta figure this out. I think

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<v Speaker 1>we can't. We can't just operate this way. So this woman,

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<v Speaker 1>so she gets on the plane. This is a sort

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<v Speaker 1>of plane that's got assigned seats, and there's a little

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<v Speaker 1>kid in your seat and you say, hey, that's my seat.

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<v Speaker 1>Can I sit there? You have a window seat, you

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<v Speaker 1>paid extra for a window seat, and.

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<v Speaker 2>The kid get a little slumber in huh.

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<v Speaker 1>The three year old starts crying because the three year

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<v Speaker 1>old really wanted that seat. Mom should have paid for it.

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<v Speaker 1>Mom asks would it be okay if my three year

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<v Speaker 1>old sat in that seat? Like I said, I being

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<v Speaker 1>a dad and have had, you know, kids on planes

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<v Speaker 1>not the easiest thing in the world. I probably would

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<v Speaker 1>have given up the seat, but you're not obligated to.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think it should be a you know, ruin

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<v Speaker 1>your life for a while moment. If I say no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna I'm gonna stay in this seat, and then

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<v Speaker 1>they whip out their phone say you're really not going

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<v Speaker 1>to give up your seat to this kid.

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<v Speaker 2>No, they're the dick, They're the a hole, as the

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<v Speaker 2>Internet says. Now, was this a so we can sit

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<v Speaker 2>together situation or was it just the kid prefers the

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<v Speaker 2>window seat?

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<v Speaker 4>Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, no, there's a there's a seat number

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<v Speaker 2>on the kid's ticket put their ass in it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, Well that's the mark said. Really gone viral.

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<v Speaker 1>You'd be hounded all across the country.

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<v Speaker 2>Be kind of worked up to that.

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<v Speaker 1>The Internet decided that the woman that wouldn't give it

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<v Speaker 1>up her seat is the bad person.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what the Internet decided. By far up the Internet.

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<v Speaker 2>It's evil, Michael, you're saying something my mom or dad

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<v Speaker 2>would have said, no, you got to get in that seat.

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<v Speaker 2>This nice person, that's their seat. You can sit over here. Yeah. Yeah, gosh.

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<v Speaker 1>I wish my parents would have videoed their last flight.

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<v Speaker 3>They were taking first class from San Francisco back to Boise,

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<v Speaker 3>and apparently the couple in front of them had a

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<v Speaker 3>three year old that they were soft parenting. This kid

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<v Speaker 3>was this kid was slapping her dad and one didn't

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<v Speaker 3>want the cheerios but wanted the Nutter butters and all,

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<v Speaker 3>and and she's screaming at the top.

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<v Speaker 1>Like two or three.

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<v Speaker 3>And the reason the age is totally relevant because the

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<v Speaker 3>mom grabs the daughter and puts her in her lap

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<v Speaker 3>and goes, how do you feel right now? Let's let's

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<v Speaker 3>get talk about your feelings. And my dad's my dad

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<v Speaker 3>is texting me she's fucking two.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was sharier feelings.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I don't know, angsty, conflicted on we on on

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<v Speaker 5>we exactly. I just Dad, There are times Mom, I

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<v Speaker 5>just I don't know why I bother.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's that's a tough one because I mean, kids

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<v Speaker 1>when they're little, and if you got a special needs kid,

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<v Speaker 1>they can act all kinds of different ways and you're

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<v Speaker 1>just trying to get to your destination. So I don't

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. But I did see one one time

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<v Speaker 1>with some teenagers who were back talking their dad, and

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<v Speaker 1>I could not believe the shit that dad took from

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<v Speaker 1>these two teenagers. I would have drugged them off the plane.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't care what our plans are, Ye, we ain't

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<v Speaker 1>going we're waiting for the next plane back home, or

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<v Speaker 1>if this is our homework staying home. I can't believe

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<v Speaker 1>he put up with that, and he threatened several times,

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I want to take away your car, Go ahead, dad,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't care. And then kids would laugh, just laughing

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<v Speaker 1>at him. I just it was, it was, it was.

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<v Speaker 1>I was embarrassed for this dude.

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<v Speaker 2>He was trying to end the trip as quickly as possible.

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<v Speaker 2>I get it.

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<v Speaker 1>I would have gone to that great length and expense

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<v Speaker 1>to drag their ascides off that plane. No, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>care how to do.

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<v Speaker 2>What ends?

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<v Speaker 1>Huh to what end? If you're not getting what you want,

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<v Speaker 1>that would be my end. And what they wanted was

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<v Speaker 1>to go wherever they were going.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I'm just thinking if they were going home,

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<v Speaker 2>what are you going to prolong the trip?

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<v Speaker 1>Put him in jail, put him in an orphanage.

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<v Speaker 2>I had to hit the emergency slide and pushed him off,

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<v Speaker 2>put him in the overhead compartment one of those boot camps.

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<v Speaker 1>But exactly exactly. But anyway to my original point, you

0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.400
<v Speaker 1>guys are making the argument for me. You think the

0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.600
<v Speaker 1>woman who didn't give up her seat didn't do anything wrong.

0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:09.840
<v Speaker 1>She edited her life turned upside down. We have to

0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.920
<v Speaker 1>come up with a mechanism keep this rappening, don't we

0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.680
<v Speaker 1>in the modern world where everybody's carrying around a video recorder.

0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.560
<v Speaker 2>Again, my understanding of Brazilian law is cursory at best.

0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:26.280
<v Speaker 2>But if you do it and distribute it for the

0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:32.319
<v Speaker 2>purpose of damaging a person's reputation and or financial well being,

0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:34.640
<v Speaker 2>then you got a tort right there.

0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:38.560
<v Speaker 1>Wow, so that's that's a good one, and you would

0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.760
<v Speaker 1>almost always be posting it to damage the person's reputation.

0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah correct, Oh yeah, that's practically assumed. I mean, what

0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.559
<v Speaker 2>else are you going to do? I'm hoping this gets

0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.520
<v Speaker 2>posted and in the next five minutes she becomes aware

0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.240
<v Speaker 2>of the reaction and lets my kid look out the way. No, no,

0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.200
<v Speaker 2>it's purely to hurt them.

0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.600
<v Speaker 3>See there, are accounts out there that's this one guy.

0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:01.040
<v Speaker 3>I'm not even going to say his name because I

0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.920
<v Speaker 3>hate his existence. But he's dedicated to figuring out who

0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:10.400
<v Speaker 3>people are in viral videos and doxing the hell out

0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:14.480
<v Speaker 3>of them, putting them on display their workplace, tagging their

0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.120
<v Speaker 3>profiles and everything. And I think that type of shit

0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.160
<v Speaker 3>should be illegal because you are reminding somebody's life.

0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:21.960
<v Speaker 2>My kid's going to law school right now. I'm going

0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:24.120
<v Speaker 2>to tell her. Look, I will finance your law office.

0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.760
<v Speaker 2>What we're going to do is when people seek to

0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:32.120
<v Speaker 2>damage people's reputation unjustifiedly because you know, you got to

0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:35.920
<v Speaker 2>win the jury. Generally, that's what we'll prosecute.

0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:42.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, uh oh, bird flu.

0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:50.160
<v Speaker 2>Basically, that guy's using a cell phone as a weapon. Yeah,

0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:50.959
<v Speaker 2>it's you.

0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Know, well, yeah, as a weapon, because she whipped that

0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:55.640
<v Speaker 1>out with the idea that okay, you're going to be

0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:59.600
<v Speaker 1>intimidated now that I'm videotaping you and give up the seat.

0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:01.040
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, it's absolutely a weapon.

0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.199
<v Speaker 3>And did you say she had she had a platform

0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:05.000
<v Speaker 3>before she filmed this or she don't think so.

0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.319
<v Speaker 1>I think she became an influencer after she got the

0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:09.520
<v Speaker 1>two million, and she's attractive, so.

0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:14.640
<v Speaker 2>Great that always the hot ones sounds like a beachh

0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.520
<v Speaker 2>to me, Jack, Have you ever lost your temper in

0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:19.640
<v Speaker 2>public and said do you know who I am? I'm

0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Internet famous? Or I guess she said, I'm Instagram famous. One.

0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.800
<v Speaker 1>Remember that. If I ever had the words do you

0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:29.040
<v Speaker 1>know who I am? Come out of my mouth, I

0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:34.640
<v Speaker 1>would be embarrassed. To my core, I'd hang myself. What

0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:36.560
<v Speaker 1>was I gonna say about that? Do you know who

0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.280
<v Speaker 1>I am? Instagram famous? I had a point. Have you

0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:45.600
<v Speaker 1>ever sent call law having a platform? Por having a

0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:46.720
<v Speaker 1>platform prior?

0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:47.120
<v Speaker 5>Oh?

0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, so the whole influencer thing. So I'm

0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.320
<v Speaker 1>like a shoe company and I'm going to pay her

0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.120
<v Speaker 1>to wear my shoes, thinking I'll sell more shoes now.

0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:03.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes, unfortunately, because she's one millions of dollars of business

0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.200
<v Speaker 2>done on that in that way. Yeah.

0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Remember the most famous woman on a plane that lost

0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:09.680
<v Speaker 1>her mind a year or so ago is the one

0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:11.480
<v Speaker 1>pointing at the guy in the back of the plane.

0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.920
<v Speaker 1>You don't exist, he's not real or whatever the hell happens. Yes,

0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.280
<v Speaker 1>and she, uh, she She's got tons of followers. Fun,

0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:20.240
<v Speaker 1>what do you follow?

0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.920
<v Speaker 3>I follow her on Twitter and the other day, she

0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:27.200
<v Speaker 3>posted a screenshot of it. Oh yeah, she got banned

0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.760
<v Speaker 3>from American Airlines for that whole situation, and she got

0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.400
<v Speaker 3>an email from American Airlines saying that you have twenty

0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.080
<v Speaker 3>five thousand points that you haven't used, and she she

0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:36.880
<v Speaker 3>captioned it, who's gonna tell them?

0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.240
<v Speaker 1>That's pretty funny, that's amusing.

0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:44.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I can't believe you follow her, Katie, I do,

0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:46.080
<v Speaker 3>you're not real?

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:50.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, I guess that's it.