Speaker 1: Do we need a law about this? It's one more thing.
Speaker 1: I'm strong and getty, one more thing. So we got
Speaker 1: to figure this out as a society, either morally and
Speaker 1: culturally or actually legally, where we are on the whole.
Speaker 1: Somebody whipping out their cell phone and recording you and
Speaker 1: then what they can do with it and all that.
Speaker 1: Joe who almost went to law school is going to
Speaker 1: at some point say, there's no expectation of privaty privacy.
Speaker 2: But you know, public place, You've saved me the trouble.
Speaker 1: But that was that was that meant different, That meant
Speaker 1: something different when only if you were wanting to spend
Speaker 1: three thousand dollars on a on a moving video camera
Speaker 1: and carry it around, were you capable of videoing anybody?
Speaker 1: Now everybody can video everybody all the time. There was
Speaker 1: no reason to care about that particular rule.
Speaker 2: Well, and that has more to do with the government,
Speaker 2: you know, surveilling you than anything. You cannot use someone's
Speaker 2: image and likeness for profit without their signing a release
Speaker 2: of some sort.
Speaker 1: Did you know that? I think there are thirty states
Speaker 1: that are one party consent states for recording someone. Most
Speaker 1: states are not that not like California, where like, if
Speaker 1: we're gonna we we can't call somebody up on the
Speaker 1: phone like you could in the old days on radio,
Speaker 1: which was a lot of fun, call somebody up and
Speaker 1: put them on the air without them knowing it, or
Speaker 1: record them without them knowing it.
Speaker 2: That's actually a different law. Those are two different questions. Yeah,
Speaker 2: airing somebody's a different question. How about just recording them?
Speaker 2: Just recording? Uh yeah, yeah, what about it?
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think you should be able to
Speaker 1: record me without me knowing it. I don't care who
Speaker 1: you are.
Speaker 2: Uh No. Although the counter argument is like if somebody's
Speaker 2: threatening you or defrauding you, or committing any other than
Speaker 2: there are dozens of examples, you're not allowed to get
Speaker 2: the proof of it that you need, Katie.
Speaker 3: I So I have a question back to what you said, Joe,
Speaker 3: where you can't make a profit off of a video
Speaker 3: of somebody.
Speaker 2: Else mm hmm. Theoretically, I mean, like, if you're in
Speaker 2: a documentary, they got to have everybody's got to sign
Speaker 2: a release right of some sort, although I don't know
Speaker 2: the fine print on that, so you know, don't start
Speaker 2: doing a documentary on my say.
Speaker 3: So I'm just thinking about like those videos that go
Speaker 3: viral somebody puts on they're about to talk about.
Speaker 1: So let's let's do this and then we can get
Speaker 1: into the specifics, because we're going to talk about this
Speaker 1: story which went viral a week or so ago. Maybe
Speaker 1: you've heard the outlines of it of a woman who
Speaker 1: wouldn't give up her seat on a plane to a child,
Speaker 1: and then some other woman took out her phone and
Speaker 1: recorded it, and the woman who wouldn't give up a
Speaker 1: seat became the bad person. Here's the here's a news
Speaker 1: report version of this.
Speaker 4: Plane passenger is being publicly berated by a furious mom
Speaker 4: for refusing to swap seats with her toddler. Jennifer Castro
Speaker 4: was filmed calmly ignoring the angry mother's request after she
Speaker 4: boarded the Gol Airlines domestic flight in Brazil in December.
Speaker 4: When she boarded the plane, Jennifer found a toddler sitting
Speaker 4: in her window seat and asked him to move, which
Speaker 4: caused the tod to start crying. When she refused to move,
Speaker 4: the mother pulled out her phone and started filming Jennifer
Speaker 4: and said, I'm recording your face.
Speaker 2: This is disgusting.
Speaker 4: It's the twenty first century and people have no empathy
Speaker 4: for children.
Speaker 1: So what happens from here is the mom posts the
Speaker 1: video of this awful human being who, in her words,
Speaker 1: who wouldn't give up her seat to the three year
Speaker 1: old one to sit at the window seat. Got to
Speaker 1: admit I probably would have given up my seat, but
Speaker 1: you don't have to posts it. It ends up with
Speaker 1: two point one million views as of this. The woman
Speaker 1: who wouldn't give up her seat gets, you know, out
Speaker 1: of the way that these people do and says she
Speaker 1: had to quit her job and was getting threats and
Speaker 1: couldn't walk down the street and emotional this and that,
Speaker 1: and is suing the airline for allowing this to happen.
Speaker 1: I don't know how the airline comes in. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: And then, but just in general, if I have the
Speaker 1: worst day of my life, and what would be a
Speaker 1: good example, Okay, yell at a waiter at a restaurant,
Speaker 1: not cool, shouldn't do it? But I do it, and
Speaker 1: somebody gets it on video and posts it, and I
Speaker 1: mean it material effects effects my life? Is that just
Speaker 1: a world we're going to live in forever?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 2: Number one, throw your meal on them. If you're gonna
Speaker 2: go that far, just throw that meal right into their chest, okay,
Speaker 2: like Gordon Ramsay, like we were talking about the other day,
Speaker 2: Just push it right into their chest. They're wearing a
Speaker 2: white shirt to leave the mark. Uh wow, yeah, I don't,
Speaker 2: I don't. Are you talking ethics law?
Speaker 1: Well, it needs to be dealt with either ethnically, morally
Speaker 1: or legally. All right, But if we're just gonna live
Speaker 1: in a world where your worst moment is up for
Speaker 1: grabs for anybody who has their phone out and they
Speaker 1: can just make you look like an ass clown to
Speaker 1: the whole world, affect your reputation, maybe your kids at
Speaker 1: school or your job. Everything is up for grabs all
Speaker 1: the time. Are we gonna put some sort of limits
Speaker 1: on this? Can we do we turn against this Somehow
Speaker 1: do we turn against people who whip out their phones
Speaker 1: and record this stuff? I doubt we can ever get there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you yourself have said as if I we
Speaker 2: need more shaming for avererant behavior in the modern world, not.
Speaker 1: Less right, But uh yeah, let me try to think
Speaker 1: about well, yeah, this is this is the problem.
Speaker 2: People with bad judgment get to do it too.
Speaker 1: Whatever it is, right, So I I do believe that
Speaker 1: we need more shaming, not less. For like, you know,
Speaker 1: you're you're you should be ashamed of begging for money.
Speaker 1: I think you should be ashamed. You should really want
Speaker 1: to not have to beg for money.
Speaker 2: Right, shame. But you should have your hair cut from
Speaker 2: your head and be paraded naked through town with a
Speaker 2: lady shaking a bell at you and shouting shame.
Speaker 1: I agree completely, But shaming people for really just human nature,
Speaker 1: which is everybody loses their temper sometimes or whatever.
Speaker 3: You have it in public like that?
Speaker 1: Are you gonna are you gonna? Are you gonna hope
Speaker 1: to like never lose your temper in public ever in
Speaker 1: your life? Have you never lost the control? Yeah to
Speaker 1: be ashamed?
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly quick videotaping Katie on it.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think I actually haven't. I
Speaker 1: don't think I have an instance of ever losing my
Speaker 1: temper in public that I would be like horrified to
Speaker 1: have on video. I don't think that's ever happened. So
Speaker 1: I'm using a I'm using a hypothetical that doesn't even
Speaker 1: apply to me.
Speaker 3: So that this takes me back to my question, is
Speaker 3: if it racked up that many views. Whoever posted that
Speaker 3: video got some monetary blowback.
Speaker 1: Right they are they are an influencer, or at least
Speaker 1: now they're an influencer.
Speaker 2: So they they.
Speaker 1: Weren't, They weren't an influencer before, but they become an
Speaker 1: influencer because they got, you know, millions of followers.
Speaker 3: And if millions of people go to their page and
Speaker 3: start clicking on their other content, now it's a cash
Speaker 3: cow based off of this chick's situation on this plane.
Speaker 2: So the question before me then is if something not
Speaker 2: for commercial purposes inadvertently makes money in Brazil and it
Speaker 2: happened in public, what are the laws on this emerging field.
Speaker 2: I don't have a fucking idea.
Speaker 1: But we gotta, we gotta figure this out. I think
Speaker 1: we can't. We can't just operate this way. So this woman,
Speaker 1: so she gets on the plane. This is a sort
Speaker 1: of plane that's got assigned seats, and there's a little
Speaker 1: kid in your seat and you say, hey, that's my seat.
Speaker 1: Can I sit there? You have a window seat, you
Speaker 1: paid extra for a window seat, and.
Speaker 2: The kid get a little slumber in huh.
Speaker 1: The three year old starts crying because the three year
Speaker 1: old really wanted that seat. Mom should have paid for it.
Speaker 1: Mom asks would it be okay if my three year
Speaker 1: old sat in that seat? Like I said, I being
Speaker 1: a dad and have had, you know, kids on planes
Speaker 1: not the easiest thing in the world. I probably would
Speaker 1: have given up the seat, but you're not obligated to.
Speaker 1: I don't think it should be a you know, ruin
Speaker 1: your life for a while moment. If I say no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna stay in this seat, and then
Speaker 1: they whip out their phone say you're really not going
Speaker 1: to give up your seat to this kid.
Speaker 2: No, they're the dick, They're the a hole, as the
Speaker 2: Internet says. Now, was this a so we can sit
Speaker 2: together situation or was it just the kid prefers the
Speaker 2: window seat?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, there's a there's a seat number
Speaker 2: on the kid's ticket put their ass in it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well that's the mark said. Really gone viral.
Speaker 1: You'd be hounded all across the country.
Speaker 2: Be kind of worked up to that.
Speaker 1: The Internet decided that the woman that wouldn't give it
Speaker 1: up her seat is the bad person.
Speaker 2: That's what the Internet decided. By far up the Internet.
Speaker 2: It's evil, Michael, you're saying something my mom or dad
Speaker 2: would have said, no, you got to get in that seat.
Speaker 2: This nice person, that's their seat. You can sit over here. Yeah. Yeah, gosh.
Speaker 1: I wish my parents would have videoed their last flight.
Speaker 3: They were taking first class from San Francisco back to Boise,
Speaker 3: and apparently the couple in front of them had a
Speaker 3: three year old that they were soft parenting. This kid
Speaker 3: was this kid was slapping her dad and one didn't
Speaker 3: want the cheerios but wanted the Nutter butters and all,
Speaker 3: and and she's screaming at the top.
Speaker 1: Like two or three.
Speaker 3: And the reason the age is totally relevant because the
Speaker 3: mom grabs the daughter and puts her in her lap
Speaker 3: and goes, how do you feel right now? Let's let's
Speaker 3: get talk about your feelings. And my dad's my dad
Speaker 3: is texting me she's fucking two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was sharier feelings.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know, angsty, conflicted on we on on
Speaker 5: we exactly. I just Dad, There are times Mom, I
Speaker 5: just I don't know why I bother.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a tough one because I mean, kids
Speaker 1: when they're little, and if you got a special needs kid,
Speaker 1: they can act all kinds of different ways and you're
Speaker 1: just trying to get to your destination. So I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know. But I did see one one time
Speaker 1: with some teenagers who were back talking their dad, and
Speaker 1: I could not believe the shit that dad took from
Speaker 1: these two teenagers. I would have drugged them off the plane.
Speaker 1: I don't care what our plans are, Ye, we ain't
Speaker 1: going we're waiting for the next plane back home, or
Speaker 1: if this is our homework staying home. I can't believe
Speaker 1: he put up with that, and he threatened several times,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I want to take away your car, Go ahead, dad,
Speaker 1: I don't care. And then kids would laugh, just laughing
Speaker 1: at him. I just it was, it was, it was.
Speaker 1: I was embarrassed for this dude.
Speaker 2: He was trying to end the trip as quickly as possible.
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 1: I would have gone to that great length and expense
Speaker 1: to drag their ascides off that plane. No, I don't
Speaker 1: care how to do.
Speaker 2: What ends?
Speaker 1: Huh to what end? If you're not getting what you want,
Speaker 1: that would be my end. And what they wanted was
Speaker 1: to go wherever they were going.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm just thinking if they were going home,
Speaker 2: what are you going to prolong the trip?
Speaker 1: Put him in jail, put him in an orphanage.
Speaker 2: I had to hit the emergency slide and pushed him off,
Speaker 2: put him in the overhead compartment one of those boot camps.
Speaker 1: But exactly exactly. But anyway to my original point, you
Speaker 1: guys are making the argument for me. You think the
Speaker 1: woman who didn't give up her seat didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 1: She edited her life turned upside down. We have to
Speaker 1: come up with a mechanism keep this rappening, don't we
Speaker 1: in the modern world where everybody's carrying around a video recorder.
Speaker 2: Again, my understanding of Brazilian law is cursory at best.
Speaker 2: But if you do it and distribute it for the
Speaker 2: purpose of damaging a person's reputation and or financial well being,
Speaker 2: then you got a tort right there.
Speaker 1: Wow, so that's that's a good one, and you would
Speaker 1: almost always be posting it to damage the person's reputation.
Speaker 2: Yeah correct, Oh yeah, that's practically assumed. I mean, what
Speaker 2: else are you going to do? I'm hoping this gets
Speaker 2: posted and in the next five minutes she becomes aware
Speaker 2: of the reaction and lets my kid look out the way. No, no,
Speaker 2: it's purely to hurt them.
Speaker 3: See there, are accounts out there that's this one guy.
Speaker 3: I'm not even going to say his name because I
Speaker 3: hate his existence. But he's dedicated to figuring out who
Speaker 3: people are in viral videos and doxing the hell out
Speaker 3: of them, putting them on display their workplace, tagging their
Speaker 3: profiles and everything. And I think that type of shit
Speaker 3: should be illegal because you are reminding somebody's life.
Speaker 2: My kid's going to law school right now. I'm going
Speaker 2: to tell her. Look, I will finance your law office.
Speaker 2: What we're going to do is when people seek to
Speaker 2: damage people's reputation unjustifiedly because you know, you got to
Speaker 2: win the jury. Generally, that's what we'll prosecute.
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh oh, bird flu.
Speaker 2: Basically, that guy's using a cell phone as a weapon. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's you.
Speaker 1: Know, well, yeah, as a weapon, because she whipped that
Speaker 1: out with the idea that okay, you're going to be
Speaker 1: intimidated now that I'm videotaping you and give up the seat.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's absolutely a weapon.
Speaker 3: And did you say she had she had a platform
Speaker 3: before she filmed this or she don't think so.
Speaker 1: I think she became an influencer after she got the
Speaker 1: two million, and she's attractive, so.
Speaker 2: Great that always the hot ones sounds like a beachh
Speaker 2: to me, Jack, Have you ever lost your temper in
Speaker 2: public and said do you know who I am? I'm
Speaker 2: Internet famous? Or I guess she said, I'm Instagram famous. One.
Speaker 1: Remember that. If I ever had the words do you
Speaker 1: know who I am? Come out of my mouth, I
Speaker 1: would be embarrassed. To my core, I'd hang myself. What
Speaker 1: was I gonna say about that? Do you know who
Speaker 1: I am? Instagram famous? I had a point. Have you
Speaker 1: ever sent call law having a platform? Por having a
Speaker 1: platform prior?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so the whole influencer thing. So I'm
Speaker 1: like a shoe company and I'm going to pay her
Speaker 1: to wear my shoes, thinking I'll sell more shoes now.
Speaker 2: Yes, unfortunately, because she's one millions of dollars of business
Speaker 2: done on that in that way. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Remember the most famous woman on a plane that lost
Speaker 1: her mind a year or so ago is the one
Speaker 1: pointing at the guy in the back of the plane.
Speaker 1: You don't exist, he's not real or whatever the hell happens. Yes,
Speaker 1: and she, uh, she She's got tons of followers. Fun,
Speaker 1: what do you follow?
Speaker 3: I follow her on Twitter and the other day, she
Speaker 3: posted a screenshot of it. Oh yeah, she got banned
Speaker 3: from American Airlines for that whole situation, and she got
Speaker 3: an email from American Airlines saying that you have twenty
Speaker 3: five thousand points that you haven't used, and she she
Speaker 3: captioned it, who's gonna tell them?
Speaker 1: That's pretty funny, that's amusing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't believe you follow her, Katie, I do,
Speaker 3: you're not real?
Speaker 2: Well, I guess that's it.