1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Julie Douglas. 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: Now Julie. I grew up in the American South, so 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: I have all these memories of rural individuals with their 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: trucks and one of it's not your banjos, but often 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: like would be and they're often rifles in the back 8 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: of the of the truck in the window where you 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: can see it. Uh, you know, big mudded up trucks 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: and uh. And there would be certain you know, iconography 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: that would go on the truck. Um. Sometimes it would 12 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: be a beloved cartoon character um urinating onto onto a 13 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: rival truck manufacturers logo, but oftentimes it was an image 14 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: of a deer because naturally, deer hunting was really big 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: in the area continues to be really big UM and 16 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: rural areas throughout the United States, doing no small part 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: to the fact that we've disrupted the predator prey relationship 18 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: and the environment. And you have way too many deer 19 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: and they have to have to be cold, and so 20 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: you turn to hunters and allow them to go out 21 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: there and call the deer. And if you're a manly 22 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: man in the American South, you're going to want to 23 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: show your hunting prowess by featuring those antlers wherever you can, right, Oh, yes, 24 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: so on on the wall, on the vehicle, um, just yeah, 25 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: just about anywhere. On Just the iconography of the h 26 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: of the antlers just ends up just about everywhere. And 27 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: it's by no means purely a fascination of the American South, 28 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: or even American culture or even modern culture. That's one 29 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: of the really fascinating things about about deer and antler 30 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: motifs is that when you you look at them and 31 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: you start looking back through history, they go back pretty 32 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: much all the way. They go back to at least 33 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: thirty thousand uh BC and UH and you see myth 34 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: cycles around the world involved because deer and uh and 35 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: deer like creatures, your moose, your caribou, you reindeer, um, etcetera. 36 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: These uh these creatures are found around the world, particularly 37 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: in the northern hemisphere, and they become the associations are 38 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: really potent, right, very powerful. And in fact, there is 39 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: uh something called the carno nos, which is Celtic for 40 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: the horned god. You find that in Celtic mythology, and 41 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: he is connected with male animals, particularly the stag and 42 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: rut to give you an idea, which has led him 43 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,839 Speaker 1: to be associated with fertility and vegetation. So you've got 44 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 1: this sort of wild god of the forest creature who's 45 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: decked out in these huge antlers. And what I like 46 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: about this example in mythology is that just really kind 47 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: of carry with it, uh, not just the folklore tradition, 48 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: but the sort of magical thinking that one can assume 49 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: with this image. And I stumbled upon this bit of 50 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: this seventeenth century samurai named Honda Tata Katsu who would 51 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: literally do this sort of embodied cognition with antlers fastened 52 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: onto his helmet when he went onto the battlefield to 53 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: to intimidate, to really try to embody this idea of 54 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: this this uh you know, in this sense a warlike 55 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: creature doing battle. Now, that's that can be a bit dangerous, 56 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: as I'll get to in a second, because you can 57 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: you can potentially turn into a deer. That's one of 58 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: the big risks. And yeah, and we've seen this in 59 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: Japanese the samurai re enactments. Kid. Now you mentioned the 60 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: masculine dear antlerd deity there, but that doesn't mean that 61 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: that all deer entities are necessarily masculine. Um. In the 62 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: Dear Goddess of Ancient Siberia, Esther Jacobson argues that the 63 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: deer is rooted in a symbolic system revolving around an 64 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: animal mother. Uh So in this myth cycle, the dear 65 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: mother is is kind of like a tree of life 66 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: and the source of life and death. And uh, there's 67 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: a there's a fabulous a little article titled the Deer 68 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: as a symbol by psychologist Thomas R. Hirsch, and I'll 69 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: make sure to link to that on the podcast landing 70 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: page accompanying this episode. But he argues that the when 71 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: the deer is symbolizes a female goddess, it's it's definitely 72 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: from a male point of view, and it gets into 73 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: the male psychology not only of like sort of gender politics, 74 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: of of of of human breeding, but also the hunt. 75 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: And uh, in a certain amount of guilt regarding the hunt. 76 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: He says, quote perhaps six the deer tales I've read 77 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: concerned the elusiveness of the deer in the hunt and 78 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: therefore expressed the psychology of male hunters. The hunter chases 79 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: a fast and elusive deer deeper and deeper into unknown 80 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: areas of the vast forest, into some strange world. And 81 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: he goes on to identify five key mo'keefe in dear 82 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: mythology and surprising uh and this will this will come 83 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: out more as we discuss antlers in the science and antlers. 84 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: But he found a little thin nothing in the way 85 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: of myths that we're dealing with the cyclical shedding of antlers. Now, 86 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: if any listeners out there have some examples of that 87 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: they would like to bring to mind, send them our way, 88 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: because I'd love to I love to read them. But anyway, 89 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: Hurst points out the following you have antlers is protection, 90 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: So you hang them on the wall, you wear them 91 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: in the battle, you put them over the door. There 92 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: you know, I'm a magical symbol to protect you. The 93 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: second is a deer is a victim or a persecuted animal. 94 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: I think that's that's very obvious due to our hunting 95 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: of the deer. Uh. Then there's deer as riches or wealth, 96 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: which is uh is key to any kind of hunting 97 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: culture where you kill a deer and then you can 98 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: feature family you can. You can use every part of 99 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: the deer in many of these traditions to to provide 100 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: for a family or a community. Uh. And then there's 101 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: guilt over the hunt. And this is this is really 102 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: interesting because he mentions a few different stories. For instance, 103 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: that there's a Pueblo story in which the deer, elk, antelope, 104 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: and eagle were all originally man eating monsters, and the 105 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: gods punished them by making them human food. So it 106 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: kind of gives us an owl like like, should I 107 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: feel bad about killing and eating the deer, No, because 108 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: that deer used to be really awful and the gods 109 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: are punishing it, so it's cool. A similar one you'll 110 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: find in the Siberian traditions, which say that the elk 111 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: once had six legs and lived in the sky, and 112 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: it got so conceded that the god knew me had 113 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: its two back legs could cut off and then threw 114 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: it down to earth and then then it's okay to 115 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: eat it. And uh. You see various tales of this kind. 116 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: Other ones include um ideas that the deer is born 117 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: again after you kill it, or the deer grants the 118 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: hunter permission to kill it, which again all comes back 119 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: this guilt idea of right and these these sort of 120 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: very difficult negotiations we make psychologically when we talk about 121 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: our food sources, which we've talked about before in the book. 122 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: Some we love, some we hate, some we eat. We 123 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,679 Speaker 1: did a podcast of episode called Don't Eat the Panda, 124 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:03,679 Speaker 1: and I'll include a link to that on the landing 125 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: page for this episode, but if you want to go back, 126 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: listen to that, because we get really deep into these 127 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,679 Speaker 1: discussions of how we feel about the animals we consume 128 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: in the semantic distancing with words. Yes. Finally, the motif, 129 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: the final motif that he points out deer as a 130 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: guide to another world. Now, dear uh, if you've encountered them, 131 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: you can attest to this. They're elusive, their light footed, 132 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: their speedy. They flee into the deep forest and if 133 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: you're hunting them, this could draw you in after them, 134 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: into deeper woods, into areas that resonate with supernatural ideas. 135 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: So you have, like the dear people of Scottish myth, 136 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: you have various accounts where where deer or take the 137 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: form of alluring women and they're kind of like sirens 138 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,679 Speaker 1: leading you onto destruction. Um, and then we have multiple 139 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: tales where you have to deal with the danger of 140 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: becoming a deer. Uh. There's a story of a fourth 141 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: century Chinese hunter who fell and became a stag and 142 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: then ran away and his son gave up hunting. In 143 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: European myth cycles, here's the character brutal And who was 144 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: turned into a row or a little stag because he 145 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: drank from a forbidden pool. You have animal transformations throughout 146 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: the Native American tribes people's belief systems of parts of 147 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: rituals where where you're donning the hides of deer using 148 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: antlers of deer uh, and you run the risk of 149 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: catching deer fever, in which the hunter becomes a deer 150 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,239 Speaker 1: and flees into the forest and never comes back again. Um. 151 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: And one of my my favorites, and I have a 152 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: blog post about this is gonna come out because you 153 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: see it as a motif. In art, you have the 154 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: Greek counter Assetian who comes upon the goddess Diana bathing 155 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: naked in a pool, and so she's this is of 156 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: course a dangerous thing to do to glimpse, say a 157 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: god or goddess naked, and so she's furious and she 158 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: turns him into a stag um so that he can 159 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: never tell anybody about what he saw. So then he 160 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: runs off and he's torn apart by his own hunting dogs. 161 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: He's unable to stop him because by turning him into 162 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: a deer, she took away his voice, so he couldn't 163 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: tell anybody about seeing her naked. But he also couldn't 164 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: call his own dogs. I'm familiar with that, just from 165 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: an episode of Duck Dynasty. They were just sitting around 166 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: talking about all this. Now I wish they were That 167 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: was well, there, they're duck people, so they probably have 168 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 1: a whole different set of legends about potentially turning into 169 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: the but they were right. But they're hunters at the core. 170 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: So if they're duck people, they're dear people. Now. One 171 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: of the things I was thinking about too is pan 172 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: with his flute leading people away, you know, the horned 173 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: pan um. So you know, we all have some sort 174 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: of familiarity with this trope of deer and antlers in 175 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: this sort of mystical creature. And if you think that 176 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: this isn't translated into some sort of industrial complex, well 177 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: you're wrong, because it turns out that antlers are a huge, 178 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: the huge commodity. New Zealand is the world largest producer 179 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: of deer antler, followed closely by Australia and Canada, both 180 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: increasingly UH more so and Korea is probably the world's 181 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: largest user of antlers, with with an appetite for all 182 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: sorts of things antler anity. We've been using antlers for 183 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: for ages and ages because essentially you have if you 184 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: catch them in time, you have this hardened bone structure 185 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 1: that is sharpened, that's smooth, and I seem to lend 186 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: itself well to use. And indeed, Uh, there was a 187 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: five hundred thousand year old antler hammer found at eartham 188 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: pit in Box Grove, England, and this would have been 189 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: used by an extinct species of Homo Heidelbergness, the first 190 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: humans to colonize Europe. And then UH also of interest 191 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: to two thousand ten an excavation in Motala, Sweden, a 192 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: card bone was on earth at a Mesolithic site that's 193 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,719 Speaker 1: rich in ancient artifacts from about four thousand and six 194 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: thousand BC. And UH, what what they found was. You know, 195 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: it could have been just a mere tool with a 196 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: with a phallic um theme to it, but one inn 197 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: definitely looks like a penis, and so there are there's 198 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: some discussions that it could have been the world's first 199 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: known sex toy. So yeah. According to Clara Moskovits writing 200 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: for Live Science, the dildol like object is about four 201 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: inches that's ten point five centimeters long and about point 202 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: eight inches in diameter two centimeters and uh, if you 203 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: look at the picture, it's sort of it's very uncanny. Yeah, yeah, 204 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: it's pretty unmistakable, and they point out it would be 205 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: it would have been unmistakable at the time. It's not 206 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: like somebody made this tool and then other people, there's 207 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: other tribes people just snakered at him at the accidental resemblance, 208 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: so right, And some people say, well, maybe it was 209 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: just something that was a symbolic used in fertility rights 210 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: or something not necessarily used as a sex aid, but 211 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: we'll probably never know. Yeah, I mean, needless to say, 212 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: a phallic motifs are found just about everywhere you look, 213 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: and they've been there throughout human history and even perhaps 214 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: before human history. So it uh, it doesn't take a 215 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: huge stretch of the imagination to uh to think about 216 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: it in that light. Now, Um, it's it's interesting to note. Um, 217 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: and this was pointed out in the nineteen three edition 218 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: of Nature that the anthropologist, when studying excavated bone remains, 219 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: often finds it difficult to distinguish specimens worked by hominids 220 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: and uh those that have been say, nod on by 221 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: carnivores hungry rodents, but also herbivores such as a northern 222 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: north such as a Norwegian reindeer or the Scottish red 223 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: deer um. According to a then anthropologist at the British Museum, 224 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: these nod bones and antlers can resemble artifacts worked by 225 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: human hands and have sometimes been mistaken for them. So 226 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: even as we've used antlers in our construction of tools 227 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: since time out of mind, it's easy to make the 228 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: mistake uh by looking at nod remnants and think that 229 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: those were worked by human hands. All right, with all 230 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: that being said, let's look at the basics of antlers, 231 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: because it's pretty amazing. Um. They are found on the 232 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: heads of all members of the deer family, with the 233 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: exception of reindeers, in which female rengeers also have a 234 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: set of antlers. They're made of bone, and they sprout 235 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: from the pedicle, which is a bony growth located just 236 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: above the skull. Yeah, and it's worth worth stressing again 237 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: that these are there is a genuine bone we're talking 238 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: here about here, antalope, sheep, goats, creatures of this nature. 239 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: They have horns rather than antlers. And the difference here 240 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: is that horns are made of keratin, the material you're 241 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: finding your fingernails or and hair and claws and uh. 242 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: And they're not routinely shed in this manner. Yeah. Right, 243 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: if you have a horn, if you're sporting a horn 244 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: and it breaks off, too bad, it's not gonna grow back. 245 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: But if you have antlers, they will grow back. And 246 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: we'll discuss a little bit more about that. Hardened antlers 247 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: are made up of roughly protein, calcium, even phosphorus and 248 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: one percent that they also contain magnesium, sodium, aluminium, potassium, copper, manganese, 249 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: and zinc. And the chemical composition of antlers varies with 250 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: the location and can be affected by venal environmental factors 251 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: like soil characteristics and the amount of rainfall during the 252 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: antler growth cycle. And that's what I think is so 253 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:16,959 Speaker 1: cool about these antlers, is they really respond to the environment. Yeah, Genetics, age, 254 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: and diet or are the three key factors in in 255 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: antler growth. And UH and yeah, we've scientists have spent 256 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: a lot of time just trying to figure out exactly, 257 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, how how everything comes together in the formation 258 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: of these antlers, indeed, what the antlers are for, what 259 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: purpose they have, why in most most species the males 260 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: have antlers and females don't. And then in the case 261 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: of reindeer and caribou, one of the females and antlers. 262 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: That throws off a lot of the theories and you 263 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: have to to to to reanalyze the situation. Now. One 264 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: of the most outstanding examples of antlers is the Irish elk. 265 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: It's known as the giant deer Megleserus gigantis. Of course 266 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: it's extinct now, but analysis of its bones and chief 267 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: by scientists UH who are based in Britain and Russia, 268 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: showed the huge herbivore survived until about five thousand BC. 269 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,479 Speaker 1: It stood about seven ft tall two point one meters 270 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: at the shoulder, and the adult males had massive antlers 271 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: that spanned about twelve ft across that three point seven meters, 272 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: and they weighed up to eight eight pounds or forty kilos. 273 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: That's quite a rack. Nice I was wondering if that 274 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: would get worked in, So what would be the purpose 275 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: of having such a huge rack? Well, that's that's one 276 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: of the questions. That's that that we've we've struggled with 277 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: over time. What why did we actually wanted to actually 278 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: have these antlers? And there are actually several key theories 279 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: that have been thrown around uh and and a lot 280 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: of them are kind of related. And some of the 281 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: additional theories kind of use one or two of these 282 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: uh in in making their final argument. And there's no 283 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: definitive answer here we should say, yeah, which is kind 284 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: of surprising. It's it's easy to take for granted that antlers, 285 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: surely we know why they work, and it's at a 286 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: surface level, it's easy to to just go along with 287 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: it with any one of these these theories. But the 288 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: first one signal of male quality. So this one, of course, 289 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: just comes down to breeding, just comes down to acquiring 290 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: a mate, sending a message to a potential mate, Hey, 291 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: look at me, I'm healthy, I got the genetics. I 292 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: am clearly the deer or moose or what have you 293 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: that you should mate with. So yeah, I mean this 294 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: is basically transmitting like I have a really healthy diet, 295 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time out in the sun, 296 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: not playing video games. You should choose me. Now. Another 297 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: theory is that these are weapons used to fight other 298 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: males and uh. And it's kind of funny for this 299 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: as a theory, since we do see plenty of deer 300 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: uh in some animals fighting with each other with their antlers. 301 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: But the idea here is that breeding season starts, mail 302 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: deer need to use their antlers to fight and established 303 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: dominance with other males. And indeed, they, like I said, 304 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: they do use them for this purpose. Yeah, and some 305 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: of them don't even engage in combat. So the idea 306 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: here is that a glorious display of antlers maybe enough 307 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 1: for another deer to stand down. So yeah, I mean 308 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: they may spar and if they do, well, hey, it 309 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: kind of shows like that one is the dominant one 310 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: and they should stand down. Or maybe they just look 311 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: at each other and say, I forget it. So it's 312 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: essentially your your classic that's not a knife. This is 313 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: a nice scenario, or is I like to think of 314 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: you just referenced crocodile Dundee, But I like to think 315 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: of Richards lost Ark when Harrison ford Is is met 316 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: with an oggressor with a knife and then he just 317 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: pulls out a gun just like forget it. Yeah, the 318 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: guy like pulls out this big knife or almost like 319 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: a scimitar or something, swirling it around this impressive display, 320 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: and then uh Ford just shoots him and makes short 321 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: work of Yeah. Um. Now, another theory is that this 322 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: is a display dominance side and this kind of ties 323 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,479 Speaker 1: into what we've already discussed the size of the antlers 324 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: of the deer displays age related dominance between males without 325 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: the males actually having to fight, So we touched on 326 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: that already. And then another theories defense against predators. And 327 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 1: this is the basic idea that you grow those antlers 328 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: um as much or if not exclusively, because you have 329 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: to defend yourself against predators. You as as an antler 330 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,959 Speaker 1: bearing species, you are a prey animal and things are 331 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: out to get you. So it's easier to think of 332 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: these antlers is essentially like the big, gaudy gold watch 333 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: that an individual is wearing at the beach, and that 334 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: sends the message, hey, I got plenty of resources. I'm 335 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: clearly the guy you need to hang out with and 336 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 1: breed with. But uh, but but then what do we do. 337 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: What do we think when we look at female reindeer, 338 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: female cariboo that are supporting antlers as well. Well, there's 339 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: an interesting article on this from smithsonian dot com. This 340 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: is a from from why do some females have horns? 341 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: By Gary Laden And Uh, there's been a points out 342 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of of research that's gone into 343 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: this question because again it kind of becomes pivotal to 344 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,479 Speaker 1: our whole question about antlers in general. Because here these 345 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: females running oud with them. What does it mean? Uh, 346 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: points out an in tiny monogamous deer and antelope populations, Uh, 347 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,959 Speaker 1: the females and the males tend to look more alike. 348 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 1: There's less difference. Uh there, you know, they're pair bonded. 349 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: They have basic horns or antlers to defend against predators, 350 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: nothing fancy. Meanwhile, when you look at the larger species, 351 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: that's where you see more of this male competition U 352 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: and for the females, and you see this difference, uh, 353 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: this antler or hornet difference between the males and the females. Well, 354 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: so to me that uh, that gets more to the 355 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: question of sexual selection, because then you start to think 356 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: about peacocks and the male peacocks and their glorious displays 357 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: like big of the display, the more they seem like 358 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 1: they would be the ones to mate with, or at 359 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: least that's the idea. And particularly when you consider that 360 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: whole and logic with antlers and protection, like if that's 361 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: what they're there for, it doesn't make sense because then 362 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: all dear, no matter you know, if you're you're talking 363 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: about a moose or you know, a row dear, all 364 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: of them would have a set of antlers to protect 365 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: themselves with. Indeed, now, two of the theories out there 366 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: regarding why have antlers? Why have horns if you're if 367 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: you're a female in the species. One of these is 368 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: the hypothesis proposed by Richard Estes, who works with the 369 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: wildebeest in East Africa, and he suggests that hornet or 370 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: antler females benefit by confusing adult males as to who 371 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: the young males and the group are, So the strategy 372 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: here would be to keep the young males in the 373 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 1: group longer so they can grow bigger before heading out 374 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: on their own. Now, a more recent theory proposed by A. 375 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: Ted Stankowich of the University of Massachusetts and Tim Carrow 376 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: of the University of California. Davis argues that females can't 377 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 1: really hide in protective cover, and that those who must 378 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: defend a feeding territory are more likely to have horns 379 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: or antlers than those who live in a protective habitat 380 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: or don't defend a territory. So the argument here is, 381 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: we see females with antlers among caribou and reindeer because 382 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 1: they're living out in the open, out to clear visibility. 383 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: They can't just depend on running and hiding, so that 384 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: they would need those antlers in a sense for for 385 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: for action, but also just to not stand out from 386 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: the antler and protective male members of the society. Yeah. 387 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: I think there's just so many different factors that play 388 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 1: into this um and so the jury is out, but 389 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: I guess we could all probably agree that they likely 390 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: serve as both armament and ornament. Yeah, and then there 391 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: are even additional theories, like there's the theory that reindeer 392 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: all have the antlers because they use their antlers as 393 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: tools to clear away snow when they're feeding snow plowing. 394 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: But then, for instance, what do you think then when 395 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: you look at the moose, because there's an argument that 396 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: in moose, the antlers may act as a large hearing aid. Um, 397 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: that makes sense because they have more of a surface area. 398 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: Makes sense. Yeah, but then why do only male moose 399 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: have those antlers because they never listen. So hopefully that 400 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: that relays something of the mystery surrounding the antler and 401 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: why we're still studying antlers and trying to to figure 402 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: out exactly why they evolved and how they function, uh, 403 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: for for these these different deer and deer light creatures. Indeed, 404 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: and now we're gonna take a quick break. When we 405 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: get back, we're going to talk about how antlers are 406 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: exquisitely sensitive to their environment. All right, we're back. Uh, 407 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: we're discussing antlers. We've talked about antlers and their their 408 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: their cultural impact on humans, and our attempts to understand 409 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: them and their their owners from sort of a supernatural standpoint. 410 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: We've talked about our scientific attempts to understand what antlers 411 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: are and why they form and what function they serve. 412 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: Now we're going to discuss the role that the environment 413 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: plays in the formation of antlers and and indeed the 414 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: the cyclical nature of antler growth and shedding. Which is 415 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: all dependent on the amount of light that they are 416 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: exposed to. And uh, I'm really enjoying the fact that 417 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: this is coming up again because we've been talking about 418 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: light and dark and how it so much the underpinnings 419 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: of each species existence. Well, here again is another great example, 420 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: because there's something called the photo period, and what we're 421 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: talking about is an interval in a twenty four hour 422 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: period during which a plant or an animal is exposed 423 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: to light. And of course periods of sunlight alter during 424 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: the course of the year. It's seasonally dependent. And uh, 425 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: and there's a seasonal cycle to what the deer a 426 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: doing to their breeding cycle, and and and as we've discussed, 427 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: most of the theories with the antlers seem to revolve 428 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: around the use of antlers as a as a display, 429 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: as a as as a weapon in the acquiring of 430 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: of mates. So if you look at these this photo period, 431 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: then you know it's pretty obvious that in the summer, 432 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: you have longer days, you have more sunlight, and bucks 433 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: produce higher levels of testosterone, which in turn trigger antler developments. 434 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: So antlers start as cartilage growing from bass. The spaces 435 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: that we called out earlier called pedicles and a fuzzy 436 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: skin known as velvet, which is really rich in blood 437 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 1: vessels in its sense of to the touch, it supplies 438 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: the growing antlers with essential nutrients. Now I'm not going 439 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: to call it an umbilical cord, but it's doing the 440 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: same sort of job here essentially. Yeah, just as a 441 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: side note to touch on the testesterone issue, you have 442 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: a deer is castrated, either on purpose or just by 443 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: accident in the course of its life, it will stop 444 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: this cycle of growth. It will grow one pair of 445 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: misshapen antlers and then keep those for the rest of 446 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: its life. Now, if it's not castrated, which out in 447 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: the wild, assuming that's not going to happen, And as 448 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 1: the amount of daylight dwindles later in summer, the bucks 449 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: go through another testosterone increase and that triggers a mineralization 450 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: and hardening of the antlers. And then you get into 451 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: fall and you have the bucks rubbing their antlers on 452 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: vegetation to remove the velvet, and that reveals these bony antlers, 453 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: and that carries them through fall in winter, and then 454 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: after the breeding season you have a drop in a 455 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: bucks to suster and level, and that triggers the antlers 456 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: to release from the pedicles, and then within days you 457 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: have a formation of a scab like material over those pedicles, 458 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: and the process starts anew with the development of these 459 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: new growth cells for the antlers. So obviously, if you're 460 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: going to go out in the woods and look for antlers, 461 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: winter is the time to do it because shed antlers 462 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: are often difficult to find really because they have this 463 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: high protein content and in abundance of calcium phosphate, so 464 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: rodents are quick to consume them. So if you do 465 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: find antlers in the wild, uh, you know, snatch them 466 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: up and consider yourself lucky. Or if you're a rodent, uh, 467 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: you know, half a bike. Although do you consider that 468 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: it is someone's habitat right that rodents like what it end? Yeah, 469 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: you are interfering with the habitat, I take. But then 470 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: you can argue that while we already unbalanced the habitats, 471 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: so there should be plenty of antlers out there, so 472 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: maybe we're just doing our part to keep that the 473 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: rodent skin. I don't know, I don't know. Now, the 474 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,959 Speaker 1: significance of the photo period is really huge, and controlled 475 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: lab experiments, bucks have been capable of producing multiple sets 476 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 1: of antlers in a single year, as well as retaining 477 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: a single set of antlers for several years just by 478 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 1: altering the amount of light that they're exposed to. Wow, 479 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: see that that's good information because I found myself wondering 480 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: when I was reading about this, was like, what have 481 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: you took a deer from North America? You put it 482 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,239 Speaker 1: on a plane, booked at a flight all the way 483 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: to Australia. What happens? You know, because you're shifting the seasons, 484 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: you're shifting light, and obviously, yeah, you change the amount 485 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: of light the deer is getting. You end up hacking 486 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: into that antler antler cycle. So there you go. Indeed, 487 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: now I do want to point out that antler is bone, 488 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: but it is particularly tough bone because obviously our own 489 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: bones break when they encounter a lot of force. And 490 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: when you see two moose or cariboo or or deer 491 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: going at it with their antlers, Uh, it's it's almost 492 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: kind of shocking that you're not seeing antler's just splinter 493 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: and break all over the place. Well, there's a two 494 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: thousand and nine study from John Curry at the University 495 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: of York in the UK, and uh, he was looking 496 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: at the structure of the antlers, how you know how 497 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: much uh wear and tear they can take. And he 498 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: found that hardened antlers, that's the the antlers that they 499 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: have in fall for the breeding season, um that they 500 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: are two point four times tougher than normal wet bone. 501 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: And he also found that they could survive impacts six 502 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: times greater than the than impacts that shatter a wet femur. 503 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: That's why this tamurai warrior bore them on it on 504 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 1: his helmet, right, Yeah, just one more reason to embody 505 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: that creature and whist and risk dear madness before you 506 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: go into battle. Now, speaking of Eastern traditions, with antlers, 507 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: you can do more than just wear them on your helmet. 508 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: You can, of course grind them up and uh and 509 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: use them in your medicine. Dear antler has been a 510 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 1: common ingredient in Chinese tonic preparations for some time, dating 511 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: back at least two thousand years, and in Chinese traditional 512 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: medicine is thought to nourish the en, tonify the kidney, 513 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: invigorate the spleen, strengthened bones and muscles, and promote blood flow, 514 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: and it's still used in inter Chinese traditional medicine today 515 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: to treat a number of ailments including memory, hyperplasia, malignant sores, 516 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: children's moms, etcetera. Now in the West, UM, some researchers 517 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: are are very interested in the antlers because of the 518 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: rapid growth of antlers. So at the height we're talking 519 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: about an eighth of an inch a day, which is 520 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: pretty incredible. So they're interested because they're thinking about this 521 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: sort of regenerative properties that the cells possessed. They're also 522 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: looking to antlers as treatments for maladies like osteo arthritis. Yeah. 523 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: In fact, that two thousand twelve study from the University 524 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: of Casilla la Mancha in Spain UH suggests that the 525 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: origin of osteoporosis could be directly linked to a lack 526 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:50,239 Speaker 1: of minerals essential to calcium absorption, namely magnanese, rather than 527 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: a lack of calcium. And this is all based on 528 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: their studies of antlers. And this is because the previous 529 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: antler studies have shown that magnese is necessary for calcium absorption. 530 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: So this hypothesis cell bowls around the idea that when 531 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: the human body is of less manganese or when it 532 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: is sent from the skeleton to other organs that require it, 533 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: such as the brain. The calcium that's extracted at the 534 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: same time is then not probably absorbed and is excreted 535 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: in the urine, which is really important, right because a 536 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: lot of people who are trying to avoid osteoporosis are 537 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: trying to really take a lot of calcium supplements or 538 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: added to their diet with foods. But if you don't 539 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: have the manganese to help facilitate absorption, well then it 540 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: doesn't matter, right. Yeah, any kind of study that is 541 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: looking into the formation of bone or the the weakening 542 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: of bone, uh and antlers provide a very interesting and 543 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: very extreme model to study. Now, a team of researchers 544 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: in this Little Korea reported finding evidence that deer antlers 545 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: contain multipotent stem cells that could be useful for tissue 546 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: regeneration in veterinary medicine. UM. They specifically noted that injury 547 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: to wild animals, including deer themselves, could be treated using 548 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: deer antler derived cells, and they pointed out that studies 549 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: involving the use of horse stem cells have found clinical 550 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: application of equ wine derived stem cells, So, in other words, 551 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: perhaps this could make its way to humans as well. 552 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: Speaking of consumption by humans, um, some of you may 553 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: be familiar with a deer velvet uh, the common name 554 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: of a product made from growing antlers of deer during 555 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: that stage when they're covered in that soft velvety substance 556 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: we were discussing earlier, and you will find it in 557 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: a number of non f d A approved and the 558 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: varying degrees of suspicious products to to help you, help 559 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: you heal after an injury, to help you in your training, etcetera. Yeah, 560 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: dear velvet contains a growth hormone called insulin like grip 561 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: factor one or i g F one, and as you say, 562 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: it's an unproven performance enhanced are often used by athletes 563 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: who think that it could help heal cartilage and tendant 564 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: injuries more quickly and boo their strength and endurance. Yeah, 565 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: it's a it's a growth hormone, and these can be 566 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: useful for you know, for instance, young people that have 567 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: you know, stunted growth. It can be people who suffer 568 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: from dwarf is UM related to factors of that are 569 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: and even in the healing of cartilage and intended injuries. 570 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: But it's generally not something that gets recommended for people 571 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: who are just training and wanting to bulk up, because 572 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: there can be a number of adverse side effects, including 573 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: the tendons becoming too tight and uh and and easy 574 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: to break. Or it can even disrupt the way that 575 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: the body metabolizes fats and sugar. So it can it 576 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: can throw things out of whack. Indeed, it can. So 577 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: don't don't take that dear Antler supplement. It's just I mean, 578 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: you're trying to hack into your own body and do 579 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: That's just not a good idea. Um. Now, recently a 580 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: hunter in Slovenia brought down a row deer with what 581 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: appeared to be a unicorn horn, a single horn, a 582 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,959 Speaker 1: single uh and their like formation atop its head. Instead 583 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: it to and in a way like the unicorn is 584 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: is is very much in that that area of the 585 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: mystical deer, you know, it's the mystical forest animal that's 586 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: it's holy and elusive and uh and so well you've 587 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: seen that Tom Cruise documentary legend, right, yes, yeah, I 588 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: was just thinking about that the the other day when 589 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: when I saw this this article, Because there's a whole 590 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: goblins are hunting the unicorn for the devil, you know, 591 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: your typical goblin, devil, unicorn plot um. But in this case, 592 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: this was not an actually unicorn. This was again a 593 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: deer with two outhers that were grown together. Uh And 594 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: and this was just a really rare form of antler deformity. 595 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: But that there are a number of antler deformities that 596 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: can take place due to injury to the pedical um, 597 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: injury to the animal itself, dietary genetic aspects, castration that 598 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, So you do see a lot of 599 00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: malformation of antlers out there in the deer moves, heraboo 600 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: reindeer populations, and this just was an extreme example of that. 601 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: It was because the pedicles grew together, so it appeared 602 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: to be just like a single unicorn like protrusion. I 603 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: thought it was interesting with the article that we're looking at. 604 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: They pointed out that the hunter probably was not able 605 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,719 Speaker 1: to identify it as having a single um antler as 606 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: opposed to to before he shot it, because instantly people 607 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: would say, why did you kill the unicorn? Why not? 608 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: Why not bring this in? And indeed he might have 609 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: been the kicking himself because you could have taken this 610 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: thing on the road, right And then he came up 611 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: with some sort of folkloric rationalization for it. Right, it 612 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: made me follow it into the forest. There you go 613 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: into the deeper woods and you have no choice but 614 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: to kill it lest it draw you in. And you 615 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: see a naked goddess and then you turned into a 616 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: deer and eaten by hounds and it's all over. Yeah, psycle, 617 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: life cycle of life, all right. So there you have it, 618 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: The mystery of the antler, just a you know, a 619 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: crash course in um, the cultural importance of deer and antlers, 620 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: the science of of antlers. What we know? What questions 621 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: still remain? And uh, and we'd love to hear from 622 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: anyone out there who has, uh, some added bits that 623 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: they've come across, or just their own experience with the 624 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: elusive and mystical deer. Might I insert a slight diversion, 625 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: because I cannot you know how you're you're you're sitting 626 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: here thinking, and you're podcasting, and you have like the 627 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: one nagging thought. And I was thinking a lot of this, 628 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 1: These these antlers bring up again, these tropes of masculinity 629 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: and so forth. And then I thought about a picture 630 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: that a Swedish woman recently showed me that seems to 631 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: be an American thing, and which instead of like fastening 632 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: antlers to your car saying, which I've seen before, people 633 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: are putting what looks to be um iron castings of 634 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: testicles hanging from the front of their cards. You know 635 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: of this? Oh? Yes, are you? Are you being facetious? 636 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: I've been took a Swedish woman I know to show me. 637 00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: I was like, wait, are you sure this is an 638 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: American Oh? I I almost mentioned them them earlier. I 639 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: believe they're called truck nuts, and yeah, they've they've been 640 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: around for a while. I think they started showing up 641 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: a few years back. And it indeed is about making 642 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: your your truck more masculine, I guess by putting testicles 643 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: on it. Um. I don't pretend to to understand it, 644 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: but it seems to be very much composed of the 645 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: same energy as as putting these protective, uh you know, 646 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: dear motifs on your Yeah. I thought, wow, like gun 647 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: racks aren't enough and and antlers aren't enough, that you've 648 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: gotta have truck nuts. Yeah, I mean it's it's always 649 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: seemed a little bit weird to me too, because it's 650 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,839 Speaker 1: like they're exposed, right there on the truck, like even 651 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 1: on the human body. It's kind of kind of ridiculous. 652 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: And if you're just parking your truck at Walmart and 653 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: has it's it's testicles hanging out, you're just asking for 654 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: somebody to to kick your truck on them balls or 655 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: or to do something worse to the balls. I mean, yeah, 656 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: I want to weave this into some sort of vulnerability 657 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,240 Speaker 1: thing like Burnet Brown's talk on vulnerability and how important 658 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: this is. So maybe it's a way of saying you 659 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: have signfortable Sometimes these are am I not, because if 660 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,839 Speaker 1: they cast right your trucks, then the the antlers are 661 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: going to grow weird. AND's nicely done. You wrap that up. Okay, Um, guys, 662 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: if you want to find more out about us, you 663 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: can visit stuff with your Mind dot com, where you'll 664 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: find all the podcast episodes, all the videos, all the 665 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: blog posts, links to social media account that we maintain 666 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: all that good stuff. And if you have any thought 667 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: you want to send our way, please do and you 668 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: can do so by sending an email at Blow the 669 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 1: Mind at house to forks dot com for more on 670 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,360 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Does it House Stuff 671 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: works dot com