Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and
Speaker 1: Matt's and today we're asking the question what's more important
Speaker 1: earning more or spending less when it comes to saving money.
Speaker 1: I feel like you've got two sides of the coin, right,
Speaker 1: You've got earning more money or you've got spending less money.
Speaker 1: And here's the thing is, I don't think it's really
Speaker 1: a debate. Like you hear this and you think, Okay,
Speaker 1: obviously we're going to debate it. But when it comes
Speaker 1: to individuals, we are, oh yeah, we're definitely gonna debate it.
Speaker 1: But we almost as riveting as one of those presidential
Speaker 1: debates we had a couple of months back, which we're
Speaker 1: not at all. It'll be just as chaotic. But that's
Speaker 1: that's the thing. It's not a debate because I think
Speaker 1: a lot of times we tend to think of one
Speaker 1: of those over the other, Right, Like we kind of
Speaker 1: have a natural sort of default that we that we
Speaker 1: out to. And that's the whole point of this episode
Speaker 1: is that we're going to challenge folks to kind of
Speaker 1: get out of that framework of thinking. Right, We're we're
Speaker 1: gonna try to expand people's mental boundaries a little bit,
Speaker 1: and hopefully that will mean that individuals out there will
Speaker 1: will be able to save more because we're gonna encourage
Speaker 1: them to think about something like this in a way
Speaker 1: that they haven't before. So I'm really looking forward to
Speaker 1: this one. Yeah, I feel like this is a question.
Speaker 1: It's almost like an existential question in the personal finance community.
Speaker 1: And where you come down in this debate tells a
Speaker 1: lot about you. And because it does kind of coming
Speaker 1: down to personality to certain extent, right, sure, we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about that too in this episode. It's just kind
Speaker 1: of a fascinating topic. And so keep listening because because
Speaker 1: Matt and I have just a lot of thoughts on
Speaker 1: this topic and and which one you should prioritize, um
Speaker 1: and what that looks like then in your life. But Matt,
Speaker 1: before we get to that, I want to let you
Speaker 1: know that my oldest daughter, Selma, she's seven, she's been
Speaker 1: saving up money for for quite a while based on
Speaker 1: the work that she does around the house. She typically
Speaker 1: earns three dollars a week. And the thing is, the
Speaker 1: thing that she wanted to buy was a smart watch.
Speaker 1: And what Yeah, and so Emily and I neither of
Speaker 1: us have smart watches. So she is now the first
Speaker 1: member of our family to have a smart watch. It
Speaker 1: fortunately is not Internet connected. Okay, that's what I was
Speaker 1: gonna ask me. Next she able to like text with
Speaker 1: you or so, you know, like kind of do a
Speaker 1: little phone call from a risk kind of thing, like
Speaker 1: a Dick Tracy thing. No, no, it's not not quite
Speaker 1: that advance, but you know, she she can play some games.
Speaker 1: And actually the cool thing is it does kind of
Speaker 1: push kids in the direction of getting outside and running around,
Speaker 1: So that's kind of cool, like some physical activities, counts
Speaker 1: the steps, Yeah, yeah, stuff like that. But we learned
Speaker 1: a lot in this process of getting her this smart watch,
Speaker 1: and one we learned that she can set a golden
Speaker 1: stick to it, which was really cool. We got encouraging
Speaker 1: her in that direction, like, hey, it's going to take
Speaker 1: you a while to say about for this thing, but
Speaker 1: you can do it, and she finally got there. But
Speaker 1: when we were at the store buying the watch, we
Speaker 1: actually saw it was on sale and we thought she
Speaker 1: had the money. But when we when we got home,
Speaker 1: it turned out she was a few dollars short, so
Speaker 1: she actually had like thirty six dollars and so yeah,
Speaker 1: We're like, uh, we were just trying to decide what
Speaker 1: do we give her the watch? Even though she doesn't
Speaker 1: have the money. We bought it with arm money right
Speaker 1: at the store. And so we actually, uh quickly taught
Speaker 1: her another personal finance lesson about debt and contracts. Did
Speaker 1: you put her? You put her on a payment plan
Speaker 1: remaining four dollars exactly exactly, So I coerced her essentially
Speaker 1: into helping me wash standilize some of this is actually
Speaker 1: a terrible deal. I didn't set her up on a
Speaker 1: payday lone, but but we did say we we literally
Speaker 1: had her sign a contract saying that, you know, the
Speaker 1: next time she earned money for mature that that money
Speaker 1: was going directly to mom and dad and going to bank.
Speaker 1: It is not money that you're gonna be able to
Speaker 1: see exactly daddy's money. And then she also had to
Speaker 1: help me, um, you know, wash and vacuum out of
Speaker 1: the cars, and so that that was just kind of
Speaker 1: a way that we could say, you know, like mommy
Speaker 1: and Daddy messed up on that one. We thought you
Speaker 1: had enough and you didn't, um, and that's that's our fault.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, there's something that has to
Speaker 1: be done if you don't have all the money that's
Speaker 1: required to buy this watch. And so yeah, it was
Speaker 1: kind of interesting to walk through that with her. Also
Speaker 1: shows that I'm not always buttoned up on money or
Speaker 1: my kids money. Like I'm doing my best out there,
Speaker 1: but sometimes we screw up. Um, But there are always
Speaker 1: ways to help teach your kids about money and even
Speaker 1: when you mess up, even when you don't do it nice. Man,
Speaker 1: That's that's super cool. I think it's really cool that
Speaker 1: she was able to set a goal like that and
Speaker 1: continue to work towards that because I think with you know,
Speaker 1: with our kids at this age, at least for for us,
Speaker 1: that's the biggest sort of hurdle is to you know,
Speaker 1: for them to maintain that focus, for them to continue
Speaker 1: working towards a specific goal, not getting sidetracked by some
Speaker 1: of the other things that kind of pop up that
Speaker 1: they say they now one instead it's like, well, if
Speaker 1: you do this, that's gonna really you know, set you
Speaker 1: back a few weeks, maybe a couple of months, where
Speaker 1: you won't be able to get that that bigger item.
Speaker 1: I know, like every kind of keeps talking about like smartphones,
Speaker 1: like I phone, She's like, Dad, your phone's it's it's
Speaker 1: pretty magic, you know, just like how things pop up there.
Speaker 1: I feel like she's kind of starting to prime the
Speaker 1: pump a little bit, maybe trying to get kid and
Speaker 1: I used to the idea of her having a phone,
Speaker 1: but she has no idea how expensive those things are.
Speaker 1: But but if she's really interested in it, like, that's
Speaker 1: something we can talk through, you know, it's it's whatever
Speaker 1: it is that you can get your kid to latch
Speaker 1: onto the idea of saving money to achieve the goal. Um,
Speaker 1: I think almost anything is fair game to teach that lesson,
Speaker 1: but I am not willing to go there yet. But
Speaker 1: but yeah, you mean get her a smartphone and already
Speaker 1: for that right so oh yeah, yeah, you know that's
Speaker 1: years down the road. I think that those are that though,
Speaker 1: and that's fine. I mean, different folks have different priorities,
Speaker 1: and it just depends on what you're trying to teach
Speaker 1: your kids. But yeah, that's not something that we're willing
Speaker 1: to do just yet. Well, I think that's yeah, that
Speaker 1: that comes down to more than money. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if someone saves up enough money to buy that, it's
Speaker 1: just we're not allowing that in our house for kids
Speaker 1: her age right now, because fame too much of a
Speaker 1: distraction at that point. But but yeah, I agree. Anyway,
Speaker 1: you can incentivize your kid and kind of help them
Speaker 1: see how saving their money, uh, instead of buying the
Speaker 1: shiny object that's right in front of their face. How
Speaker 1: how saving their money can lead to buying something that's
Speaker 1: more meaningful and and something they're actually going to get
Speaker 1: more enjoyment out of. Because yeah, I mean, especially as
Speaker 1: a kid, it's really easy to piddle your money away
Speaker 1: here or there. Um. And as parents, we have a responsibility,
Speaker 1: I think, to help our kids figure out what it
Speaker 1: looks like to set longer goals into achieve those things
Speaker 1: by consistently saving um. And it's kind of fun to
Speaker 1: see the fruits of those efforts. To Speaking of fruit, Matt,
Speaker 1: let's get to the beer and that we're having another
Speaker 1: show today or transition for everybody out there. This one's
Speaker 1: called Bad Bunny Pie. It's by tripping animals, and there
Speaker 1: are a bunch of different fruits in this one. There's BlackBerry, cherry,
Speaker 1: peach um, and then there's a couple of things graham, cracker, vanilla,
Speaker 1: and milk sugar. So this one should be interesting. Man,
Speaker 1: looking forward to having this one on the show with
Speaker 1: you today. But for now, let's get onto the subject
Speaker 1: at hand. We're asking a question today what's more important
Speaker 1: earning more or spending less? And there are two parts
Speaker 1: of the equation when you're looking to to save more money, Matt, right,
Speaker 1: But which one of these deserves more of our focus?
Speaker 1: Depending on your personality you mentioned personality earlier on, you
Speaker 1: might find it easier to hone in on making more
Speaker 1: money without too much concern for being frugal, and other
Speaker 1: listeners will They're all about give me more tips to
Speaker 1: increase my ability to live frugally, but they rarely give
Speaker 1: much thought to how they can increase their earnings in
Speaker 1: the coming years. Not surprisingly, Matt, you and I are
Speaker 1: are going to discuss the importance of both of these
Speaker 1: areas in our financial lives today on the show. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about how to think about earning more and living
Speaker 1: frugally and finding a solid balance of incorporating both of
Speaker 1: these into our lives. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's
Speaker 1: perfectly understandable too that we might tend to to turn
Speaker 1: our focus towards like mostly one or the other. Even
Speaker 1: folks who strive to find balance in all aspects of
Speaker 1: their lives, they're gonna lean a little more towards one,
Speaker 1: you know, possibly to the detriment of the other. Um
Speaker 1: And and that's where I think the real problem lies,
Speaker 1: and that's we all have natural talents and abilities that
Speaker 1: allow us to be better at certain things naturally, you know,
Speaker 1: But we need to make sure that we are looking
Speaker 1: at both sides of the equation. So that means, you know,
Speaker 1: the highway journer out there who was earning six figures
Speaker 1: straight out of college, they should be looking at ways
Speaker 1: that they could be spending less and leading maybe a
Speaker 1: less consumption focused lifestyle. But then for the frugal employee
Speaker 1: who's been earning the same wage for the you know,
Speaker 1: the past five years, they should look to ways that
Speaker 1: they can begin to contribute more at work maybe and
Speaker 1: find ways to grow their income. There is likely room
Speaker 1: for a lot of growth by looking at the entire equation,
Speaker 1: you know, looking at you know, what it is you're
Speaker 1: bringing in, what's going out. Like. Both of those things
Speaker 1: have an impact on the amount of money that you
Speaker 1: are able to save, and we want to make sure
Speaker 1: that we're looking at both of them. All right, so
Speaker 1: let's kind of cover both distinctively, and let's first talk
Speaker 1: about earning more and some of the advantages that come
Speaker 1: into play in your life when you focus a little
Speaker 1: bit more on that aspect instead of the saving more aspect.
Speaker 1: Let's say you're someone who works in sales, or you're
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur who owns your own business. The great thing
Speaker 1: about earning more, well, it can feel like the sky
Speaker 1: is the limit and there aren't really any obstacles to
Speaker 1: keep you from earning a ridiculous salary or just putting
Speaker 1: in a little bit more time and effort in order
Speaker 1: to score a whole lot more income really easily. There
Speaker 1: aren't necessarily a ton of folks in this position, but
Speaker 1: it can be really attractive to people that are to
Speaker 1: be able to squeeze more money out of your day
Speaker 1: job because it just feels so easy. Yeah, it can
Speaker 1: be really exciting if there's no ceiling, right, there's no
Speaker 1: limit on what you can earn. And let's talk about
Speaker 1: your ability to to meet your means. You know, although
Speaker 1: making more doesn't directly correlate to greater financial freedom, it can,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, but look no further than a lot
Speaker 1: of winners right to see that a drastic rise and
Speaker 1: income won't fix all of your money woes. Yeah, there
Speaker 1: have been shows dedicated to that, right. Yeah, but if
Speaker 1: you can earn more, like, you can definitely meet your
Speaker 1: means uh much more easily. And not only are you
Speaker 1: able to cover the basics, right, but you also now
Speaker 1: have the ability to enjoy other experiences and other things
Speaker 1: in life that are limited to those who can afford
Speaker 1: to to pay for those things, you know. I'm thinking of, Like, say,
Speaker 1: if you have big dreams to travel the world, Well,
Speaker 1: it costs a certain amount of money to travel the world,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. And even aside from experiences and big
Speaker 1: expenses like that, what if you have big goals or
Speaker 1: big dreams to be able to give away a large
Speaker 1: amount of your money, Well, you have to earn that
Speaker 1: in much money in order to be able to give
Speaker 1: it away. And so the ability to earn more money
Speaker 1: uh is going to be able to allow you to
Speaker 1: do some of these bigger things like this. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. I think another really important advantage an important
Speaker 1: thing to mention when we're talking about earning more and
Speaker 1: how that is good for our personal finances, is it
Speaker 1: offers us opportunity for personal growth. Often it's a lot
Speaker 1: of personal development that goes into the ability to earn more.
Speaker 1: And when you're growing as a person and your skills
Speaker 1: are increasing, it can be a boon to your long
Speaker 1: term ability to continue to earn more if that's what
Speaker 1: you want to do. You can't really just decide to
Speaker 1: start earning more. Yeah, you actually have to put in
Speaker 1: the work. It's not one of those things you can
Speaker 1: kind of conjure up while you're sitting on your butt.
Speaker 1: And but then as you put in the work to
Speaker 1: learn and develop these new skills and talents in your life,
Speaker 1: you'll you'll likely discover that you have some newfound freedom
Speaker 1: over the type of work that you get to do. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I do think it's interesting how like these different skills,
Speaker 1: whether it's skills or the networks we create, the communities,
Speaker 1: or even just the experiences that we gain, oftentimes lend
Speaker 1: themselves to making more money. It's sort of like this
Speaker 1: perpetual thing, you know. Uh, and so I yeah, I
Speaker 1: totally agree with that, man. Yeah, it can be enriching
Speaker 1: on a personal level and then also on a monetary level. Yeah. Absolutely. Um,
Speaker 1: And we can't really talk about earning more without touching
Speaker 1: on the abundance mindset, or the abundance mentality as Stephen
Speaker 1: Covey calls it in his book UH Seven Habits of
Speaker 1: Highly Effective People. Stephen, he talks about how the abundance
Speaker 1: mindset flows out of a deep inner sense of personal
Speaker 1: worth and security. It's the paradigm that there is plenty
Speaker 1: out there and enough to spare for everybody. It results
Speaker 1: in the sharing of prestige, recognition of profits, of decision making,
Speaker 1: and it opens possibilities, options, alternatives, and creativity. On one hand,
Speaker 1: it's a great way to think, in a great way
Speaker 1: to kind of UH approach the world. You know, it's
Speaker 1: the optimistic approach to your money that you can always
Speaker 1: learn more. But at the same time, we know that
Speaker 1: if you subscribe to that way of thinking without considering
Speaker 1: some potential problems, UH, that could also leave you in
Speaker 1: a in a tough spot. That's true, and that's what
Speaker 1: we want to talk about more is there are some
Speaker 1: drawbacks if we focus too hard on just the the
Speaker 1: earning more so out of the equation. And yeah, that's
Speaker 1: not a joke. There actually are drawbacks to focusing too
Speaker 1: much on earning more. I think people are like, what,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? What's the drawback and earning
Speaker 1: more money? Well, we'll get to our thoughts on that
Speaker 1: right after this break. Al Right, we are back and
Speaker 1: we're kind of having a debate here about which is
Speaker 1: more important, right earning more or spending less money? And
Speaker 1: we're talking about earning more money right now. We talked
Speaker 1: about the advantages, you know, the pros, but let's talk
Speaker 1: about some of the drawbacks. You know, there are certainly
Speaker 1: a few instances where earning more is gonna fall short.
Speaker 1: And one of those is when you have someone who
Speaker 1: is overly optimistic. You know, we kind of touched on
Speaker 1: this just before the break. I'm talking about me. I
Speaker 1: am kind of overly optimistic. Do you have that abundance mindsetul?
Speaker 1: I call it a preponderance of abundance. The thing is that, like,
Speaker 1: here's the problem is when someone feels like that they
Speaker 1: can always earn more regardless of how they spend their money.
Speaker 1: The ability to earn more isn't always going to be guaranteed.
Speaker 1: It's not always going to be an option for for
Speaker 1: everybody in particular too. I think this mindset it gets
Speaker 1: more fraught as you are climbing the corporate ladder, and
Speaker 1: you know where each wrung equals a boost and pay uh.
Speaker 1: And as we've seen during the pandemic, there are very
Speaker 1: few jobs that are guaranteed to always be there. And
Speaker 1: so to think that, well, I can always earn more,
Speaker 1: I can always kind of out earn my dumb spending.
Speaker 1: That's that's not a great way to think about things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're not planning for contingencies and for potential worst case
Speaker 1: scenarios when you're always banking on the fact that you
Speaker 1: can earn more, and at some point that catches up
Speaker 1: to you, whether it's a furlough situation or you know,
Speaker 1: an early retirement situation, or something happens at home. You
Speaker 1: just have to be around more hours. You can't work
Speaker 1: as many hours as you used to. They're just all
Speaker 1: sorts of things that can happen. So the earning more
Speaker 1: side of the equation is great until it's not great
Speaker 1: anymore for so many people. Yeah, another disadvantage of you know,
Speaker 1: focusing too much on the earning more side of things.
Speaker 1: It can lead to over working, really can. It can
Speaker 1: lead to a lifestyle where people find themselves working way
Speaker 1: too much before they know what their entire identity is
Speaker 1: wrapped up in their work and their performance and relationships
Speaker 1: can fall by the wayside. Even and Matt, you mentioned
Speaker 1: the corporate ladder and the climbing the wrongs. You can
Speaker 1: get into mentality where that's the next greatest thing is
Speaker 1: getting that next promotion, is getting that next race. But
Speaker 1: there's just really no end in sight, Like the next
Speaker 1: one isn't as fulfilling as you hoped it would be,
Speaker 1: And so then you look to the next promotion as
Speaker 1: the thing that will finally get you where you want
Speaker 1: to go. Earning more is great, but doing so at
Speaker 1: the expense of striking a solid balance, it's just not
Speaker 1: good for your mental state or for your financial life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and a quick practical note as well, when you earn
Speaker 1: more money and guess what, you pay more income tax
Speaker 1: that uh, you know, and this isn't a reason to
Speaker 1: avoid earning more money altogether. You can maybe try to
Speaker 1: put a positive spin on it. Maybe you can play
Speaker 1: some mental tricks, try to view, you know, paying taxes
Speaker 1: as a sign of success obviously, but maybe you can
Speaker 1: think of it too as your ability to build up
Speaker 1: the country that you know makes your business possible. That
Speaker 1: makes your job or your salary company you work for,
Speaker 1: that makes that possible. But the thing is, like these
Speaker 1: are are all a few things to keep in mind
Speaker 1: when we're we're weighing between earning more and spending less money.
Speaker 1: But now, Joel, we've talked about earning more money, let's
Speaker 1: talk about spending less. This is the second part of
Speaker 1: the equation. Yes, it is all right, Matt, And you
Speaker 1: just mentioned taxes, and that's an important consideration because when
Speaker 1: you are earning more, let's say you do get a
Speaker 1: a twenty dollar raise, right, that'd be that'd be a
Speaker 1: lot sounds dope, that'd be awesome, But like you said,
Speaker 1: you do have to pay taxes on that, and so
Speaker 1: really when it comes into your life, that could mean
Speaker 1: something more like uh, fourteen thousand dollar race or maybe
Speaker 1: even less, depending on you know what your tax rate
Speaker 1: is in your state and federal tax rate. But when
Speaker 1: you spend less, one of the greatest things is you
Speaker 1: get a dollar for dollar return. Taxes don't enter into
Speaker 1: the equation. And you Ben Franklin, really smart founding father
Speaker 1: said beware of little expenses. A small league will sink
Speaker 1: a great ship. Like how true is that? Right? I mean,
Speaker 1: spending less in small situations can sometimes feel like a
Speaker 1: like a burden. Why should I be sweating the small stuff,
Speaker 1: you might ask yourself when you're looking specifically at the
Speaker 1: spending side. But too many small expenses, they really do
Speaker 1: add up and they create a major problem for us.
Speaker 1: So while earning more is I think a great pursuit,
Speaker 1: at least to a certain extent, spending less is simultaneously crucial.
Speaker 1: So let's touch on some of the other advantages that
Speaker 1: come into our lives when we focus specifically on that. Right. Well, First,
Speaker 1: by spending less, not only are you able to invest
Speaker 1: that money now, but if you're able to maintain that
Speaker 1: discipline of keeping your consumption in check, that is an
Speaker 1: expense that you don't have to worry about later on
Speaker 1: down the road in retirement. Right, That's how you kind
Speaker 1: of get this sort of double benefits. By not spending
Speaker 1: money now, you're able to then save that money, but
Speaker 1: also down the road, that's not an expense that hopefully
Speaker 1: you'll have to revisit. Uh. And so your prioritization of
Speaker 1: spending less just truly does impact your ability to save
Speaker 1: more and you know, to be more prepared for your
Speaker 1: future just by needing and consuming less. But take that example,
Speaker 1: thought kind of flip it right to say you're going
Speaker 1: to consume more now, Well, that's money that you can't save,
Speaker 1: that's money that you're not going to invest, So that
Speaker 1: money isn't growing for you for the long term. And
Speaker 1: guess what if you get used to spending that money
Speaker 1: now and that's something you're also going to maintain in
Speaker 1: the long term. Not only do you have less money
Speaker 1: for yourself in the future, but you also have more expenses,
Speaker 1: and so that would be maybe how instead of it
Speaker 1: being this double benefit, it's a double double whammy. Definitely
Speaker 1: a double whammy if you, yeah, decide to up your
Speaker 1: expenditures spend less right now, because yeah, it's gonna wreck
Speaker 1: the whole equation. Your days of watching game shows on
Speaker 1: TV while you pretended to be homesick from school are
Speaker 1: coming back to you. Oh man. So the girls are
Speaker 1: actually off of school one day recently and they went
Speaker 1: up to visit my grandma and they ended up watching
Speaker 1: Some Prices right with her. I mean, like, that's the
Speaker 1: best game show of all time. It's a classic, and
Speaker 1: my girls know it now. Like even when Drew carry
Speaker 1: at the hell man he rocks. All right, let's talk
Speaker 1: more about spending less and why it's so important. It's
Speaker 1: such an important part of the equation, and spending less
Speaker 1: provide immediate gratification. You know, when we're talking about earning more,
Speaker 1: usually you gotta put in some serious time in order
Speaker 1: to reap the rewards um and to be able to
Speaker 1: increase your pay. You might have to get an advanced
Speaker 1: degree or learn new skills in order to get that raise,
Speaker 1: or you might have to put in more hours on
Speaker 1: the job site to increase your earnings. But when it
Speaker 1: comes to saving more, you can reap the benefits almost instantaneously.
Speaker 1: By avoiding some of the normal purchase patterns who exhibited before,
Speaker 1: you'll start saving money now. The same is true for
Speaker 1: other ways that we can spend less. They don't typically
Speaker 1: require too much time or effort in order to reap
Speaker 1: those rewards. And especially when we're talking about recurring bills, Matt,
Speaker 1: that we can cut out of our lives or at
Speaker 1: least minimize right by by finding a cheaper service that
Speaker 1: brief effort provides an immediate reward, and a reward that
Speaker 1: can last for a whole lot of time. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: ability man for you to make an immediate change to
Speaker 1: your money, the amount of money that you're able to save.
Speaker 1: You can't really replicate that when it comes to earning more,
Speaker 1: but when it comes to you know, cutting your expenses,
Speaker 1: like that's something literally today, you can immediately see more
Speaker 1: money in your account by not spending that money, right,
Speaker 1: like cutting your own hair exactly. You know people are
Speaker 1: into it, right, I've actually thought about not even cutting
Speaker 1: my own hair. I'm thinking about kind of continuing the
Speaker 1: whole pandemic long hair thing. When you think about that,
Speaker 1: keep going, man, all right, we'll revisit that in a
Speaker 1: few months and see how terrible things work. I want
Speaker 1: you to go like fabio length or something. Uh if only.
Speaker 1: And also, man, there's maybe the obvious advantage of spending
Speaker 1: less money, which is participating less in consumption and consumerism.
Speaker 1: By doing that, we are able to bring less junk
Speaker 1: into our lives, which you know then takes up less
Speaker 1: space in our homes um that we didn't have to organize.
Speaker 1: And then that has a ripple effect too, because that's
Speaker 1: that's less stuff that we have to maintain and then
Speaker 1: keep up with. If we get serious about spending less,
Speaker 1: it really does have this domino effect, which I think
Speaker 1: can create more mental sanity, greater happiness. Eventually, I think
Speaker 1: this should lead us to to look to the things
Speaker 1: and honestly, namely the people around us that can provide us,
Speaker 1: you know, real meaning, real satisfaction, instead of looking to
Speaker 1: all the stuff that we order online, you know, even
Speaker 1: maybe some of the larger purchases we make, like whether
Speaker 1: it be cars or homes. It's weird to think that
Speaker 1: that's saving more money, uh, specifically by spending less can
Speaker 1: have an impact at that deep of a level that
Speaker 1: it really can. Yeah, it's not literally just that it
Speaker 1: helps your bottom line, but we think it's a better
Speaker 1: way to live by by cutting your spending and living
Speaker 1: more frugally. If we approach spending less from from a
Speaker 1: healthy place and we're able to cut back, you and
Speaker 1: I both agree that that the things that are meaningful
Speaker 1: begin to shine even more brightly. Um that that our
Speaker 1: attention gets focused in the right direction when we're focused
Speaker 1: less on bringing more things in our lives and buying
Speaker 1: more stuff. Yeah, totally. And the beginning to shine because
Speaker 1: we have more mental light to shine on those things,
Speaker 1: not because they are uh inherently less valuable before. But
Speaker 1: if we devote less attention and energy and of our
Speaker 1: our time towards those things, uh, they do wane, right.
Speaker 1: And when we have more time, more mental space to
Speaker 1: invest in those people and those things, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the better our lives are gonna be. Yeah. And so
Speaker 1: these are some of the I guess the advantages to
Speaker 1: spending less. But we're gonna awesome. Make sure that we
Speaker 1: get to the drawbacks of spending less and what we think,
Speaker 1: you know, the ultimate solution is, and we'll get to
Speaker 1: that right after the break. All right, now we're back
Speaker 1: to the break. Let's keep talking about spending less versus
Speaker 1: earning more? Do it? Interesting topic and we've got more
Speaker 1: ground to cover here. And interestingly enough, it seems like
Speaker 1: the idea of spending less, like can that ever cross
Speaker 1: a threshold? Can that ever become something that's bad if
Speaker 1: we put too much focus on that in our lives?
Speaker 1: Um And a lot of people in the personal finance
Speaker 1: community would say no, Like their frugality is you can
Speaker 1: always cut back a little bit more, you can always
Speaker 1: tighten the belt. Yeah, a lot of people say frugality
Speaker 1: is always good no matter what we would say. I
Speaker 1: disagree yeah, would we would say that there are limits
Speaker 1: to fruit the ability for frugality to pay dividends, and
Speaker 1: so yeah, let's talk about the drawbacks spending less. In
Speaker 1: the example that we give every week, we have a
Speaker 1: craft beer on the show, and the reason we have
Speaker 1: that is because we're prioritizing craft beer. We're prioritizing some
Speaker 1: things in life now, we're not only saving for the future.
Speaker 1: And folks could say, uh, well, guys, you could be
Speaker 1: a little more frugal by eliminating that from your budget.
Speaker 1: But you know what, for you and me, it's not
Speaker 1: worth it. Like that's something that we're going to include, uh,
Speaker 1: because it's important to us. And what would we gain
Speaker 1: by cutting it out? Just uh, we'd be a few
Speaker 1: a few more bucks a few more bucks there, and
Speaker 1: a lot more of a bummer and not get to
Speaker 1: drink the stuff that we are are super interested in
Speaker 1: trying exactly. Yeah, And so there are certainly things, you know,
Speaker 1: in specific ways to focus on where you can cut
Speaker 1: back things where it's not moving the needle. But if
Speaker 1: you are cutting back in areas that kind of really hurt,
Speaker 1: then yeah, you and I, we we feel that could
Speaker 1: have a seriously like negative impact, right right, So, okay,
Speaker 1: if we focus too much on spending less, it can
Speaker 1: be easy to develop a scarcity mindset, right. This is
Speaker 1: by one of the downsides of focusing too hard on
Speaker 1: that one side of the equation and living with that
Speaker 1: belief can cause us to relate to money poorly overall,
Speaker 1: just have a bad relationship with it. Oftentimes, people that
Speaker 1: focus too hard in this direction determined that they have
Speaker 1: to hoard money when it comes along. They become penny pinchers,
Speaker 1: maybe a stereotype of someone who handles money well, but
Speaker 1: basically someone that doesn't have any joy that accompanies the
Speaker 1: what should come along with having a financial margin in
Speaker 1: their lives. Yeah, and this is how having uh scarcy mindset,
Speaker 1: how it can be viewed negatively, right Yeah. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: there certainly are a lot of negative associations with the
Speaker 1: scarcity mindset. But actually, you know, on episode one eighteen, Matt,
Speaker 1: we talked with Christy Chen and I thought she had
Speaker 1: some really interesting things to share about what's been positive
Speaker 1: for her in having a scarcity mindset. And she um
Speaker 1: grew up actually incredibly poor in China, and then her
Speaker 1: family moved to Canada and she was still really bore,
Speaker 1: But that scarcity mindset. She credits it in her ability
Speaker 1: to develop persepearance and adaptability, and I think it's really cool.
Speaker 1: Like who am I to disagree with Christy Shann who
Speaker 1: retired in her early thirties. So I think that a
Speaker 1: scarcity mindset, while it can be really harmful and it
Speaker 1: can lead to that penny pinching in ay to to
Speaker 1: find any joy when it comes to your life in
Speaker 1: regards to personal finances. Yeah, that Gallum lifestyle exactly. There's
Speaker 1: also an element to which, you know, you can have
Speaker 1: a healthy scarcity mindset, and so yeah, I think that's
Speaker 1: something that's okay to pursue. It's really all about balance
Speaker 1: when it comes to how we view cutting back on
Speaker 1: our spending. Yeah. And in addition to that too, I
Speaker 1: mean that scarcity mindset can like really anchor you to reality, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean one of the things that it was able
Speaker 1: to cause her to do was just to be Christie, right.
Speaker 1: Was it allowed her to be really resourceful and it
Speaker 1: allowed her to kind of, you know, think outside of
Speaker 1: the box in ways that she could save money well,
Speaker 1: and actually for her so much of her childhood it
Speaker 1: was it was out of necessity, that she developed that
Speaker 1: scarcity mindset, that there was an actual scarcity for her,
Speaker 1: for her family. Um, and so she had to get creative.
Speaker 1: And in some of our lives that might be true,
Speaker 1: there might actually be a scarcity, there might not be enough.
Speaker 1: But but for most people it's a scarcity mindset. It's
Speaker 1: not actually having a scarcity of resources, right. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: by choosing to, you know, focus on how we could
Speaker 1: spend less a lot of times, Like one of the
Speaker 1: disabey images is that could lead to a lack of
Speaker 1: focus on the big picture. You know, like a focus
Speaker 1: on frugality can lead, like you said, to sort of
Speaker 1: like a penny pinching mindset. Uh, that is focused on
Speaker 1: the small things at the expense of the big things
Speaker 1: in life. You know. This is when you know, we
Speaker 1: might cut off our nose to despite our face, Like
Speaker 1: and so we do this by say, driving two extra
Speaker 1: miles or maybe twenty extra miles in order to save
Speaker 1: two cents a gallon on gas. Uh. This is when
Speaker 1: we devalue our time by over prioritizing saving a few
Speaker 1: bucks here and there. We forget that money is a
Speaker 1: tool to help us to achieve the important goals that
Speaker 1: we have for ourselves into doing so. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we can take the joy out of the journey. And
Speaker 1: so you know, while we do look too, you know,
Speaker 1: two different ways that we can save more money. It
Speaker 1: is important to remember why it is that you're doing so,
Speaker 1: don't lose sight of that big picture. Yeah. Another important
Speaker 1: thing to to relax when it comes to the spending
Speaker 1: less side of the equation is that you can only
Speaker 1: cut so much, right, there comes a point that saving
Speaker 1: more money isn't possible if you're already living a rice
Speaker 1: and being kind of life. How how can you cut
Speaker 1: back even more? Basically, if we just rice, just rice,
Speaker 1: or just beans, no, no way. I love the rice,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cut the beans. Only get the rice. But
Speaker 1: that's like part of a balanced diet, right, the rice
Speaker 1: and the beans. If you just have one, it's not
Speaker 1: very healthy. Something about the combination of the two. I
Speaker 1: think there's a wallop of nutrients and both rice and beans,
Speaker 1: right exactly. But if you're already living a lifestyle that's
Speaker 1: so frugal that it could be classified as a rice
Speaker 1: and beans kind of lifestyle, there's just not much more
Speaker 1: you can cut in order to increase your savings, and
Speaker 1: so looking to earning more is is really important, and
Speaker 1: you're being shortsighted if you're not looking in that direction.
Speaker 1: I think to mount just a quick warning, I think
Speaker 1: this can be used as an excuse for people to
Speaker 1: not save more. Oh, I just can't cut back anymore.
Speaker 1: And and that is sometimes true for some people, but
Speaker 1: for a lot of us, there are ways we can
Speaker 1: cut which haven't been thoughtful or I would say enough, right,
Speaker 1: strategic enough. Yeah, I would say for most people they
Speaker 1: can cut back, yes, completely, And if folks say that
Speaker 1: they can't, it is more of an actual excuse, not
Speaker 1: because that's the reality that they're they're facing. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you and I we talked recently about like ditching a
Speaker 1: car in your life, and and that's the kind of
Speaker 1: thing where it's strategic. It's not easy to go from
Speaker 1: two cars to one car, right, That's not a simple
Speaker 1: thing to do, but it is possible for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, and it's one of those things where you
Speaker 1: can typically cut that out. But there is also the reality,
Speaker 1: right that exists when you're focusing on this side of
Speaker 1: the equation that cutting past a certain point provides diminishing returns,
Speaker 1: and it can make money feel like a drudgery. And
Speaker 1: and that's not what we're about either. We don't want
Speaker 1: you to live a lifestyle where you're looking at every
Speaker 1: single cent that comes in or goes out. We want
Speaker 1: you to have more freedom and a healthier relationship with
Speaker 1: money that doesn't involve cutting to the bare bones. And
Speaker 1: by the way, I'm totally fine with people looking at
Speaker 1: every single cent that comes in and out. It's just
Speaker 1: the matter of like having to make a judgment calls
Speaker 1: every single sinse Yeah exactly, I'm all about tracking it
Speaker 1: to the Pennyboddy. I know you are another thing. Man.
Speaker 1: In an attempt to save more, you can also end
Speaker 1: up cheaping out on other things. You know, you might
Speaker 1: turn down, uh, you know, incredible opportunities to be with
Speaker 1: people or maybe to go see a for and getting
Speaker 1: married because of attempts to save more money. I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about an instance recently when Kate, now we're thinking about
Speaker 1: going on a trip, and it looked like I was
Speaker 1: gonna be able to save money by contacting the lady directly,
Speaker 1: and guess what we lost out on the place because
Speaker 1: I was looking to save like another ten percent. Bummer, Uh,
Speaker 1: that's that's an example that came back to bite me
Speaker 1: and something that Kate reminded me of recently. And this
Speaker 1: isn't to say that like sometimes we don't have to
Speaker 1: make hard decisions, but you know, I think we can
Speaker 1: have some big regrets over money we were unwilling to
Speaker 1: spend if it means missing out on, you know, some
Speaker 1: possibly really important milestones. It makes me think of the
Speaker 1: there's this guy that we kind of ran across on
Speaker 1: Reddit that we heard about who eventually he lost his
Speaker 1: girlfriend for not spending money to go on a trip
Speaker 1: with her, I think, to maybe see her parents something
Speaker 1: like that. That's but I feel like that's one of
Speaker 1: the ultimate frugal versus cheaps. And that's why we we
Speaker 1: always talk about that is because there is more to
Speaker 1: consider than just the bottom line right then, than just
Speaker 1: the dollar amount. There are things that you have to weigh,
Speaker 1: and that's honestly, what can be so tricky when it
Speaker 1: comes to personal finances. Yeah, like the feelings of the
Speaker 1: person closest to you and whether or not they're still
Speaker 1: gonna be cool with you if you don't go on
Speaker 1: the trip with them, And those are important things to
Speaker 1: consider and and yes, but those relational dynamics are so
Speaker 1: crucial to you know, the happiness that we experience in
Speaker 1: our lives. And if we are too cheap um, because
Speaker 1: we're we're so focused on spending less, we're gonna miss
Speaker 1: out and we're gonna let the people closest to us
Speaker 1: down from kind of time um. And so yeah, that
Speaker 1: is a hard balance to strike, but it's an important
Speaker 1: one to strike. And I think Matt, you know, one
Speaker 1: more downside to focusing too much on the spending less
Speaker 1: side of the equation is the extreme focus and discipline
Speaker 1: that it takes. Willpower is finite, and constantly tracking every
Speaker 1: penny can become exhausting for people, not for some, not
Speaker 1: for you. You're kind of a prol at it. Well again,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's less the tracking, and it's it's
Speaker 1: like the constant like okay, am I going to spend
Speaker 1: money on this? You know? And so like when you're
Speaker 1: constantly when you have this like mental fatigue because you're
Speaker 1: constantly making judgment calls like that's what's hard, or constantly
Speaker 1: saying no to like these things that could actually bring
Speaker 1: you joy, but instead you're saying no at every turn,
Speaker 1: Like I think I think that's when it specifically can
Speaker 1: can really become exhausting. Yeah, And that's why, you know,
Speaker 1: we're fans of automating as much of your finances as
Speaker 1: you can so that there's less of a mental impact
Speaker 1: that you have to make when it comes to financial decisions.
Speaker 1: And the great thing is too, that making a couple
Speaker 1: of bigger savings decisions can cut your costs for months
Speaker 1: or years to come. Those are the best kind of savings,
Speaker 1: the ones that recur, repeat, and that are big in number.
Speaker 1: But one of the drawbacks to only focusing on spending
Speaker 1: less is that it can be difficult to do for
Speaker 1: too long. That again shows the need for balance when
Speaker 1: it comes to holding these two intentions when we're talking
Speaker 1: about earning more and spending less, like they're both just
Speaker 1: wonderful things to do, um, but it's just really really
Speaker 1: hard to say that one is more important than the other. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So that's why not surprisingly doing both is the answer here.
Speaker 1: This is the answer to the saving more or the
Speaker 1: spending less debate. The the easiest way to visualize this
Speaker 1: is by widening the gap and the gap between what
Speaker 1: we bring in and what goes out your month. That
Speaker 1: gap is your savings rate. And by focusing on the
Speaker 1: lever of earning more and spending less, we'll be able
Speaker 1: to develop a larger gap and we'll be able to
Speaker 1: see the greatest return with the least amount of fatigue. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then we're we're holding the abundance and scarcity mindsets,
Speaker 1: and like the proper tension, we're not buying in wholeheartedly
Speaker 1: to one or the other and saying no, I can
Speaker 1: always earn more, There's always there's abundance out there, um,
Speaker 1: and I'll always have enough or there's not enough. There's
Speaker 1: never enough, and I have to hoard everything that comes
Speaker 1: into my life. Neither of those are super healthy ways
Speaker 1: to live when it comes to money. So turning both dials,
Speaker 1: the dial of earning more and of spending less in
Speaker 1: moderation is the best fit for most people. Holding both
Speaker 1: in the right esteem is going to breed the best results.
Speaker 1: But it's not always a perfect balance, right, Matt, and
Speaker 1: you talked about this at the beginning of the episode,
Speaker 1: that our personalities do come into play here. So, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's your take when we're talking about the sales person
Speaker 1: or the entrepreneurial type who does say, hey, I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: the earning more thing is just way way easier for
Speaker 1: me or the stream frugalide who says, give me more tips,
Speaker 1: that's the thing I'm best at. Um, how would you
Speaker 1: suggest people think about the balance given different personality types
Speaker 1: that exist in different tendencies towards towards each side of
Speaker 1: this coin. Yeah, well, we all have different skills, right,
Speaker 1: we all have different talents, and like that's fine, Like
Speaker 1: that that's actually great because that's what makes us individual people.
Speaker 1: Some people have an incredible ability to use their talents
Speaker 1: to generate a fantastic income. That's awesome. So maybe put
Speaker 1: like eighty percent of your efforts there towards earning. But
Speaker 1: don't be one of those people who doesn't touch the
Speaker 1: spending less style at all. You know. That's what leads
Speaker 1: to the stories we read about, uh where high income earners,
Speaker 1: where they're living paycheck to paycheck, where they they feel
Speaker 1: that they can always out earned what it is they're spending.
Speaker 1: We want to make sure that UHH, I don't know, Like,
Speaker 1: you want to focus on the things that you're truly
Speaker 1: are good at, but at the same time, don't only
Speaker 1: focus on that. Like a lot of things in life.
Speaker 1: We want to make sure that we approach that with
Speaker 1: balance and mind. Yeah, I like that if you know
Speaker 1: your own propensity, that you're way more focused in this
Speaker 1: one direction. We'll put eight percent of your efforts there.
Speaker 1: That's a good rule thumb, and then the other towards
Speaker 1: the things you're not naturally good at, because you're gonna
Speaker 1: need to develop some money muscles in that direction, right,
Speaker 1: And I think the same thing if you're a frugal mastermind,
Speaker 1: put your efforts there because you're obviously really good at it,
Speaker 1: but then trying to focus twenty of your efforts towards
Speaker 1: knowing your worth maybe uh to to increase your income
Speaker 1: over time. And I think most people met are gonna
Speaker 1: probably fall somewhere more along the fifty, fifty or sixty
Speaker 1: side of the spectrum, which is great. But it is
Speaker 1: important to know yourself, know your strengths, and play to
Speaker 1: those strengths while also being cognizant that both sides of
Speaker 1: the equation are important, because if we get too far
Speaker 1: to one side to imbalanced, then it really could lead
Speaker 1: to financial hardship for us at some future point in time.
Speaker 1: And we want people to be strong in their finances
Speaker 1: strong in their earnings and strong in how much they're
Speaker 1: able to spend, how much they're able to keep of
Speaker 1: what they bring in. Yeah, and so maybe a little
Speaker 1: awareness exercise for folks to do is like, like you
Speaker 1: might be thinking through this and you're not totally sure
Speaker 1: like what side of the fence you would fall on,
Speaker 1: And I think a good thing to do is maybe
Speaker 1: think through, Like imagine if you got like a big
Speaker 1: medical bill or like like a massive ongoing expense that
Speaker 1: you're going to have to quickly come up with a
Speaker 1: way to pay. Think through how it is that you
Speaker 1: would naturally think to cover that expense still your credit card?
Speaker 1: I would still you m would you think of ways
Speaker 1: to maybe cut expenses from your life or are you
Speaker 1: is your natural inclination to think of ways to earn
Speaker 1: more money. I think it's important to maybe identify whatever
Speaker 1: your default is and certainly to pull that lever. But
Speaker 1: then at the same time, don't forget the rest of
Speaker 1: the equation, you know, like, if your natural inclination is
Speaker 1: to earn more money, well, don't forget there are some
Speaker 1: great ways that you could maybe cut some expenses from
Speaker 1: your life. Or if your natural inclination is to all right,
Speaker 1: we're slashing the budget. We're never gonna go out to
Speaker 1: eat again. You can only cut so much from your life,
Speaker 1: and so instead maybe like kind of broaden your scope
Speaker 1: a little bit, think about ways that you could earn
Speaker 1: more money. This is one of those areas where I
Speaker 1: feel like it's just really important to know yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say, um, if I was to run through
Speaker 1: that mental exercise, it would be that we're gonna cut
Speaker 1: and would be that we're gonna stop doing this and
Speaker 1: stop doing that for a while. And so, yeah, I've
Speaker 1: learned that about myself over the years that I am
Speaker 1: naturally more of a frugal person and my brain goes
Speaker 1: less frequently to how can I increase my earnings? And
Speaker 1: so I've had to try to kind of push my
Speaker 1: brain in that direction. I think it's been really good.
Speaker 1: It's been healthy for me because I can tend to
Speaker 1: be one of those more like people where I'm more
Speaker 1: in on the frugal side. Um, and I'd rather be
Speaker 1: somewhere like the spectrum. And I think it's a great
Speaker 1: exercise that can kind of help people see where they
Speaker 1: fall so that they can at least be aware of
Speaker 1: that bias and then they can kind of work towards
Speaker 1: remedying it. That's right, man, Awareness, that's the first step,
Speaker 1: It's true. All right. Let's get back to the beer
Speaker 1: that we had on this episode, Matt. This one is
Speaker 1: called Bad Bunny Pie. Uh. It's uh interesting fruited sour
Speaker 1: by the folks at Tripping Animals Brewing. So yeah, that's
Speaker 1: actually the type of beer. It's written on the can
Speaker 1: interesting fruited sour. So it's literally a sour ale with BlackBerry, cherry, peach, graham, cracker, vanilla,
Speaker 1: and milk sugar. So this, yeah, one of those kitchen
Speaker 1: sinks hours with a lot of stuff. And what were
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this one? Well, yeah, just to clarify,
Speaker 1: it doesn't actually say interesting on the can. That's that's
Speaker 1: the word that you like to throw in there. But
Speaker 1: but I think the reason you did it, like is
Speaker 1: by the way you just described it like kitchen sink
Speaker 1: kind of beer. It's got a lot of different flavors
Speaker 1: going on. But that doesn't mean it wasn't good, right. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, I feel like as I was drinking, the
Speaker 1: first thing I noticed was the fruit, like right off
Speaker 1: the bat, like cherry, but then peach like peach. It
Speaker 1: made me think of those like the old school peach
Speaker 1: ring candies that you get at like the you know,
Speaker 1: like the candy market kind of thing, you know I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. It's sitting there in the clear plastic. It's
Speaker 1: like hanging from the paper at the top. Is it
Speaker 1: chewy candy. It's covered in sugar. I could not get
Speaker 1: past the peach flavors on this one. But at the
Speaker 1: same time that you're tasting that fruit, there is also
Speaker 1: kind of vanilla lactose kind of like milk sugar flavors
Speaker 1: going on, where it just kind of really made it creamy,
Speaker 1: like it almost kind of reminded me of the milkshake
Speaker 1: a little bit. But yeah, I thought the Graham cracker
Speaker 1: to get added a nice little touch. It just kind
Speaker 1: of like a hint of fall time going on. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like it made it kind of a proper
Speaker 1: sour for the fall, and especially because it's trying to
Speaker 1: conjure up these pie flavors, right, and what's better than
Speaker 1: having like a root pie, uh, you know, during this
Speaker 1: time of year. I'm all about it. So yeah, it
Speaker 1: was all about this beer too. I thought it was
Speaker 1: really interesting, unique, fun and delicious. The fact that it's
Speaker 1: got vanilla, and it actually makes me think of like, uh,
Speaker 1: apple pie or not apple pie, I guess, but like
Speaker 1: cherry pie, peach pie a la mode. You know, it's
Speaker 1: sort of like when the ice cream is melted a
Speaker 1: good bit and it's kind of just like all kind
Speaker 1: of running together feeling there and at that point you
Speaker 1: gotta switch to the spoon. That's what his beer reminded
Speaker 1: me of. Yeah, man, this was dull delicious. All right. Well,
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for this episode. For folks that
Speaker 1: want show notes for this episode, we'll have those up
Speaker 1: on our website at how to money dot com. And
Speaker 1: so I feel like this is one of these episodes
Speaker 1: that can lend itself to conversation, you know, that this
Speaker 1: is one of these episodes that is addressing sort of
Speaker 1: like the philosophy of money or you know, in this case,
Speaker 1: like how it is that we can save more, Like
Speaker 1: it's you're gonna do one of the two things. You're
Speaker 1: either gonna earn more, you're gonna spend less, or both
Speaker 1: at the same time exactly. And I feel that this
Speaker 1: would be a good episode to maybe let a friend
Speaker 1: know about you know, this is uh an episode. We're
Speaker 1: kind of talking about theory, like the theory of money
Speaker 1: and how it is that we handle our money. So
Speaker 1: let a friend know who might be interested in something
Speaker 1: like this, and hopefully that sparked some conversation between the
Speaker 1: two of you and ultimately leads you both to doing
Speaker 1: smarter things with your money, no doubt. All right, man,
Speaker 1: Well until next time, then, best friends out, Best friends Out.