WEBVTT - What's More Important: Earning More or Spending Less? #284 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.720 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:05.840 Matt's and today we're asking the question what's more important 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:28.520 earning more or spending less when it comes to saving money. 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:30.840 I feel like you've got two sides of the coin, right, 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:34.560 You've got earning more money or you've got spending less money. 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:36.519 And here's the thing is, I don't think it's really 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:38.760 a debate. Like you hear this and you think, Okay, 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:40.760 obviously we're going to debate it. But when it comes 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.879 to individuals, we are, oh yeah, we're definitely gonna debate it. 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:45.960 But we almost as riveting as one of those presidential 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:47.479 debates we had a couple of months back, which we're 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.880 not at all. It'll be just as chaotic. But that's 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:52.519 that's the thing. It's not a debate because I think 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.720 a lot of times we tend to think of one 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:57.320 of those over the other, Right, Like we kind of 0:00:57.360 --> 0:00:59.800 have a natural sort of default that we that we 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:01.800 out to. And that's the whole point of this episode 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:03.720 is that we're going to challenge folks to kind of 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:06.640 get out of that framework of thinking. Right, We're we're 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:09.920 gonna try to expand people's mental boundaries a little bit, 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:11.840 and hopefully that will mean that individuals out there will 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:13.959 will be able to save more because we're gonna encourage 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:15.800 them to think about something like this in a way 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:18.400 that they haven't before. So I'm really looking forward to 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.080 this one. Yeah, I feel like this is a question. 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:23.960 It's almost like an existential question in the personal finance community. 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:26.440 And where you come down in this debate tells a 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.240 lot about you. And because it does kind of coming 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.800 down to personality to certain extent, right, sure, we're gonna 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:33.720 talk about that too in this episode. It's just kind 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.000 of a fascinating topic. And so keep listening because because 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.080 Matt and I have just a lot of thoughts on 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.640 this topic and and which one you should prioritize, um 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.040 and what that looks like then in your life. But Matt, 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:45.280 before we get to that, I want to let you 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.720 know that my oldest daughter, Selma, she's seven, she's been 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:51.200 saving up money for for quite a while based on 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:53.840 the work that she does around the house. She typically 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.400 earns three dollars a week. And the thing is, the 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:58.880 thing that she wanted to buy was a smart watch. 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.400 And what Yeah, and so Emily and I neither of 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:04.920 us have smart watches. So she is now the first 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:06.920 member of our family to have a smart watch. It 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.600 fortunately is not Internet connected. Okay, that's what I was 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:11.560 gonna ask me. Next she able to like text with 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:12.919 you or so, you know, like kind of do a 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:14.800 little phone call from a risk kind of thing, like 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.040 a Dick Tracy thing. No, no, it's not not quite 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.280 that advance, but you know, she she can play some games. 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.240 And actually the cool thing is it does kind of 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:24.680 push kids in the direction of getting outside and running around, 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:26.919 So that's kind of cool, like some physical activities, counts 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.119 the steps, Yeah, yeah, stuff like that. But we learned 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:31.160 a lot in this process of getting her this smart watch, 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:34.480 and one we learned that she can set a golden 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:37.000 stick to it, which was really cool. We got encouraging 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:38.840 her in that direction, like, hey, it's going to take 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:40.280 you a while to say about for this thing, but 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.640 you can do it, and she finally got there. But 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:44.919 when we were at the store buying the watch, we 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:47.760 actually saw it was on sale and we thought she 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:49.679 had the money. But when we when we got home, 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.000 it turned out she was a few dollars short, so 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.960 she actually had like thirty six dollars and so yeah, 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:56.840 We're like, uh, we were just trying to decide what 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:58.560 do we give her the watch? Even though she doesn't 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:00.480 have the money. We bought it with arm money right 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.080 at the store. And so we actually, uh quickly taught 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:08.200 her another personal finance lesson about debt and contracts. Did 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:09.600 you put her? You put her on a payment plan 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.720 remaining four dollars exactly exactly, So I coerced her essentially 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.560 into helping me wash standilize some of this is actually 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:20.519 a terrible deal. I didn't set her up on a 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:24.280 payday lone, but but we did say we we literally 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.400 had her sign a contract saying that, you know, the 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.040 next time she earned money for mature that that money 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.760 was going directly to mom and dad and going to bank. 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:33.239 It is not money that you're gonna be able to 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.880 see exactly daddy's money. And then she also had to 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.280 help me, um, you know, wash and vacuum out of 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.440 the cars, and so that that was just kind of 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:43.440 a way that we could say, you know, like mommy 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:45.040 and Daddy messed up on that one. We thought you 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.800 had enough and you didn't, um, and that's that's our fault. 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:49.680 But at the same time, there's something that has to 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:51.680 be done if you don't have all the money that's 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:53.800 required to buy this watch. And so yeah, it was 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.360 kind of interesting to walk through that with her. Also 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.360 shows that I'm not always buttoned up on money or 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:01.680 my kids money. Like I'm doing my best out there, 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:04.040 but sometimes we screw up. Um, But there are always 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.320 ways to help teach your kids about money and even 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.400 when you mess up, even when you don't do it nice. Man, 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:11.120 That's that's super cool. I think it's really cool that 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:12.480 she was able to set a goal like that and 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.040 continue to work towards that because I think with you know, 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:16.880 with our kids at this age, at least for for us, 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.680 that's the biggest sort of hurdle is to you know, 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:21.719 for them to maintain that focus, for them to continue 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.279 working towards a specific goal, not getting sidetracked by some 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:26.800 of the other things that kind of pop up that 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.040 they say they now one instead it's like, well, if 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:30.960 you do this, that's gonna really you know, set you 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:33.320 back a few weeks, maybe a couple of months, where 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:34.920 you won't be able to get that that bigger item. 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:38.360 I know, like every kind of keeps talking about like smartphones, 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:40.560 like I phone, She's like, Dad, your phone's it's it's 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.080 pretty magic, you know, just like how things pop up there. 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:45.000 I feel like she's kind of starting to prime the 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:46.560 pump a little bit, maybe trying to get kid and 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:48.520 I used to the idea of her having a phone, 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.640 but she has no idea how expensive those things are. 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:53.640 But but if she's really interested in it, like, that's 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:55.599 something we can talk through, you know, it's it's whatever 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.200 it is that you can get your kid to latch 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.760 onto the idea of saving money to achieve the goal. Um, 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.520 I think almost anything is fair game to teach that lesson, 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:06.719 but I am not willing to go there yet. But 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.159 but yeah, you mean get her a smartphone and already 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:10.840 for that right so oh yeah, yeah, you know that's 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:12.800 years down the road. I think that those are that though, 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.200 and that's fine. I mean, different folks have different priorities, 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:16.640 and it just depends on what you're trying to teach 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.320 your kids. But yeah, that's not something that we're willing 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.520 to do just yet. Well, I think that's yeah, that 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:23.279 that comes down to more than money. It doesn't matter 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:25.560 if someone saves up enough money to buy that, it's 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:27.599 just we're not allowing that in our house for kids 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.640 her age right now, because fame too much of a 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.320 distraction at that point. But but yeah, I agree. Anyway, 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.680 you can incentivize your kid and kind of help them 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.200 see how saving their money, uh, instead of buying the 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.760 shiny object that's right in front of their face. How 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.520 how saving their money can lead to buying something that's 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.680 more meaningful and and something they're actually going to get 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.320 more enjoyment out of. Because yeah, I mean, especially as 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.520 a kid, it's really easy to piddle your money away 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.920 here or there. Um. And as parents, we have a responsibility, 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.160 I think, to help our kids figure out what it 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:00.800 looks like to set longer goals into achieve those things 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.680 by consistently saving um. And it's kind of fun to 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.640 see the fruits of those efforts. To Speaking of fruit, Matt, 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:08.520 let's get to the beer and that we're having another 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.920 show today or transition for everybody out there. This one's 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.839 called Bad Bunny Pie. It's by tripping animals, and there 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:17.240 are a bunch of different fruits in this one. There's BlackBerry, cherry, 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.240 peach um, and then there's a couple of things graham, cracker, vanilla, 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.080 and milk sugar. So this one should be interesting. Man, 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:23.800 looking forward to having this one on the show with 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:25.760 you today. But for now, let's get onto the subject 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.359 at hand. We're asking a question today what's more important 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:32.240 earning more or spending less? And there are two parts 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.920 of the equation when you're looking to to save more money, Matt, right, 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:39.480 But which one of these deserves more of our focus? 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.080 Depending on your personality you mentioned personality earlier on, you 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.040 might find it easier to hone in on making more 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.960 money without too much concern for being frugal, and other 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.760 listeners will They're all about give me more tips to 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.560 increase my ability to live frugally, but they rarely give 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:57.600 much thought to how they can increase their earnings in 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:00.640 the coming years. Not surprisingly, Matt, you and I are 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.279 are going to discuss the importance of both of these 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:05.680 areas in our financial lives today on the show. We'll 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:08.279 talk about how to think about earning more and living 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.520 frugally and finding a solid balance of incorporating both of 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:13.520 these into our lives. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.320 perfectly understandable too that we might tend to to turn 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.880 our focus towards like mostly one or the other. Even 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.520 folks who strive to find balance in all aspects of 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:23.720 their lives, they're gonna lean a little more towards one, 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.640 you know, possibly to the detriment of the other. Um 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:28.920 And and that's where I think the real problem lies, 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.680 and that's we all have natural talents and abilities that 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.680 allow us to be better at certain things naturally, you know, 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:36.840 But we need to make sure that we are looking 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.920 at both sides of the equation. So that means, you know, 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.880 the highway journer out there who was earning six figures 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.239 straight out of college, they should be looking at ways 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.080 that they could be spending less and leading maybe a 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.720 less consumption focused lifestyle. But then for the frugal employee 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:53.880 who's been earning the same wage for the you know, 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.360 the past five years, they should look to ways that 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.840 they can begin to contribute more at work maybe and 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.160 find ways to grow their income. There is likely room 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.720 for a lot of growth by looking at the entire equation, 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:07.680 you know, looking at you know, what it is you're 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.160 bringing in, what's going out. Like. Both of those things 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.320 have an impact on the amount of money that you 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.320 are able to save, and we want to make sure 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.160 that we're looking at both of them. All right, so 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.720 let's kind of cover both distinctively, and let's first talk 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.800 about earning more and some of the advantages that come 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.360 into play in your life when you focus a little 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:29.000 bit more on that aspect instead of the saving more aspect. 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.640 Let's say you're someone who works in sales, or you're 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.480 an entrepreneur who owns your own business. The great thing 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.480 about earning more, well, it can feel like the sky 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.280 is the limit and there aren't really any obstacles to 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:44.360 keep you from earning a ridiculous salary or just putting 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.560 in a little bit more time and effort in order 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.400 to score a whole lot more income really easily. There 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:51.880 aren't necessarily a ton of folks in this position, but 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.000 it can be really attractive to people that are to 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.800 be able to squeeze more money out of your day 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.800 job because it just feels so easy. Yeah, it can 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.520 be really exciting if there's no ceiling, right, there's no 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:05.640 limit on what you can earn. And let's talk about 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:07.720 your ability to to meet your means. You know, although 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:11.880 making more doesn't directly correlate to greater financial freedom, it can, 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.400 you know, uh, but look no further than a lot 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.240 of winners right to see that a drastic rise and 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.120 income won't fix all of your money woes. Yeah, there 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.800 have been shows dedicated to that, right. Yeah, but if 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.319 you can earn more, like, you can definitely meet your 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.240 means uh much more easily. And not only are you 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:30.800 able to cover the basics, right, but you also now 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.560 have the ability to enjoy other experiences and other things 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.560 in life that are limited to those who can afford 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.360 to to pay for those things, you know. I'm thinking of, Like, say, 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.760 if you have big dreams to travel the world, Well, 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.040 it costs a certain amount of money to travel the world, 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.640 you know. Uh. And even aside from experiences and big 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.199 expenses like that, what if you have big goals or 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.560 big dreams to be able to give away a large 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:54.800 amount of your money, Well, you have to earn that 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:56.319 in much money in order to be able to give 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.200 it away. And so the ability to earn more money 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:01.400 uh is going to be able to allow you to 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.720 do some of these bigger things like this. Yeah, Yeah, 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:07.600 for sure. I think another really important advantage an important 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.960 thing to mention when we're talking about earning more and 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:12.880 how that is good for our personal finances, is it 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:17.000 offers us opportunity for personal growth. Often it's a lot 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.480 of personal development that goes into the ability to earn more. 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.000 And when you're growing as a person and your skills 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:25.080 are increasing, it can be a boon to your long 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.520 term ability to continue to earn more if that's what 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.200 you want to do. You can't really just decide to 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:32.160 start earning more. Yeah, you actually have to put in 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:33.400 the work. It's not one of those things you can 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:35.760 kind of conjure up while you're sitting on your butt. 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.120 And but then as you put in the work to 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.680 learn and develop these new skills and talents in your life, 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.600 you'll you'll likely discover that you have some newfound freedom 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.320 over the type of work that you get to do. Yeah. 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:49.760 I do think it's interesting how like these different skills, 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:53.079 whether it's skills or the networks we create, the communities, 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:57.480 or even just the experiences that we gain, oftentimes lend 0:10:57.520 --> 0:10:59.240 themselves to making more money. It's sort of like this 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:01.719 perpetual thing, you know. Uh, and so I yeah, I 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:03.800 totally agree with that, man. Yeah, it can be enriching 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.360 on a personal level and then also on a monetary level. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:09.680 And we can't really talk about earning more without touching 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:13.320 on the abundance mindset, or the abundance mentality as Stephen 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.160 Covey calls it in his book UH Seven Habits of 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:19.319 Highly Effective People. Stephen, he talks about how the abundance 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:22.560 mindset flows out of a deep inner sense of personal 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:26.079 worth and security. It's the paradigm that there is plenty 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:29.199 out there and enough to spare for everybody. It results 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:32.880 in the sharing of prestige, recognition of profits, of decision making, 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:37.280 and it opens possibilities, options, alternatives, and creativity. On one hand, 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.120 it's a great way to think, in a great way 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.679 to kind of UH approach the world. You know, it's 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:44.160 the optimistic approach to your money that you can always 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:46.080 learn more. But at the same time, we know that 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.680 if you subscribe to that way of thinking without considering 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:52.000 some potential problems, UH, that could also leave you in 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:53.640 a in a tough spot. That's true, and that's what 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:55.719 we want to talk about more is there are some 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.080 drawbacks if we focus too hard on just the the 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.400 earning more so out of the equation. And yeah, that's 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:03.840 not a joke. There actually are drawbacks to focusing too 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:05.640 much on earning more. I think people are like, what, 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:07.640 what are you talking about? What's the drawback and earning 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:09.960 more money? Well, we'll get to our thoughts on that 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:21.320 right after this break. Al Right, we are back and 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.080 we're kind of having a debate here about which is 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.120 more important, right earning more or spending less money? And 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.480 we're talking about earning more money right now. We talked 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.719 about the advantages, you know, the pros, but let's talk 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.440 about some of the drawbacks. You know, there are certainly 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.120 a few instances where earning more is gonna fall short. 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.440 And one of those is when you have someone who 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:42.520 is overly optimistic. You know, we kind of touched on 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:44.760 this just before the break. I'm talking about me. I 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.679 am kind of overly optimistic. Do you have that abundance mindsetul? 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:51.920 I call it a preponderance of abundance. The thing is that, like, 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:53.640 here's the problem is when someone feels like that they 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.480 can always earn more regardless of how they spend their money. 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.520 The ability to earn more isn't always going to be guaranteed. 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:01.640 It's not always going to be an option for for 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.680 everybody in particular too. I think this mindset it gets 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.160 more fraught as you are climbing the corporate ladder, and 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.480 you know where each wrung equals a boost and pay uh. 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.000 And as we've seen during the pandemic, there are very 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:17.800 few jobs that are guaranteed to always be there. And 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.360 so to think that, well, I can always earn more, 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.200 I can always kind of out earn my dumb spending. 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.439 That's that's not a great way to think about things. Yeah, 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.800 you're not planning for contingencies and for potential worst case 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.240 scenarios when you're always banking on the fact that you 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:33.679 can earn more, and at some point that catches up 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.640 to you, whether it's a furlough situation or you know, 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.120 an early retirement situation, or something happens at home. You 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:42.200 just have to be around more hours. You can't work 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.480 as many hours as you used to. They're just all 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:46.679 sorts of things that can happen. So the earning more 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.040 side of the equation is great until it's not great 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:53.080 anymore for so many people. Yeah, another disadvantage of you know, 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.080 focusing too much on the earning more side of things. 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:57.720 It can lead to over working, really can. It can 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.080 lead to a lifestyle where people find themselves working way 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.040 too much before they know what their entire identity is 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.000 wrapped up in their work and their performance and relationships 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.200 can fall by the wayside. Even and Matt, you mentioned 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:11.960 the corporate ladder and the climbing the wrongs. You can 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.880 get into mentality where that's the next greatest thing is 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.360 getting that next promotion, is getting that next race. But 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.320 there's just really no end in sight, Like the next 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:21.920 one isn't as fulfilling as you hoped it would be, 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.960 And so then you look to the next promotion as 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.720 the thing that will finally get you where you want 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:29.960 to go. Earning more is great, but doing so at 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.640 the expense of striking a solid balance, it's just not 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.320 good for your mental state or for your financial life. Yeah, 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.440 and a quick practical note as well, when you earn 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:40.720 more money and guess what, you pay more income tax 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.280 that uh, you know, and this isn't a reason to 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:46.560 avoid earning more money altogether. You can maybe try to 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:48.800 put a positive spin on it. Maybe you can play 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.360 some mental tricks, try to view, you know, paying taxes 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:53.720 as a sign of success obviously, but maybe you can 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.600 think of it too as your ability to build up 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.200 the country that you know makes your business possible. That 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.680 makes your job or your salary company you work for, 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.120 that makes that possible. But the thing is, like these 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.400 are are all a few things to keep in mind 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:10.200 when we're we're weighing between earning more and spending less money. 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.640 But now, Joel, we've talked about earning more money, let's 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.800 talk about spending less. This is the second part of 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:17.640 the equation. Yes, it is all right, Matt, And you 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:21.000 just mentioned taxes, and that's an important consideration because when 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.480 you are earning more, let's say you do get a 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.160 a twenty dollar raise, right, that'd be that'd be a 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.280 lot sounds dope, that'd be awesome, But like you said, 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:30.840 you do have to pay taxes on that, and so 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:32.760 really when it comes into your life, that could mean 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.800 something more like uh, fourteen thousand dollar race or maybe 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.080 even less, depending on you know what your tax rate 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.560 is in your state and federal tax rate. But when 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.160 you spend less, one of the greatest things is you 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.360 get a dollar for dollar return. Taxes don't enter into 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:51.040 the equation. And you Ben Franklin, really smart founding father 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.000 said beware of little expenses. A small league will sink 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.840 a great ship. Like how true is that? Right? I mean, 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.640 spending less in small situations can sometimes feel like a 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.280 like a burden. Why should I be sweating the small stuff, 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.680 you might ask yourself when you're looking specifically at the 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:09.000 spending side. But too many small expenses, they really do 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.480 add up and they create a major problem for us. 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.400 So while earning more is I think a great pursuit, 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.640 at least to a certain extent, spending less is simultaneously crucial. 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.080 So let's touch on some of the other advantages that 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:25.120 come into our lives when we focus specifically on that. Right. Well, First, 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.800 by spending less, not only are you able to invest 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.440 that money now, but if you're able to maintain that 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:34.240 discipline of keeping your consumption in check, that is an 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.240 expense that you don't have to worry about later on 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:38.440 down the road in retirement. Right, That's how you kind 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.120 of get this sort of double benefits. By not spending 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.440 money now, you're able to then save that money, but 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:45.920 also down the road, that's not an expense that hopefully 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.080 you'll have to revisit. Uh. And so your prioritization of 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.160 spending less just truly does impact your ability to save 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.160 more and you know, to be more prepared for your 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.760 future just by needing and consuming less. But take that example, 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:00.720 thought kind of flip it right to say you're going 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.440 to consume more now, Well, that's money that you can't save, 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:05.359 that's money that you're not going to invest, So that 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:07.840 money isn't growing for you for the long term. And 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:09.800 guess what if you get used to spending that money 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:11.760 now and that's something you're also going to maintain in 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:13.560 the long term. Not only do you have less money 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.359 for yourself in the future, but you also have more expenses, 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:17.840 and so that would be maybe how instead of it 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:23.119 being this double benefit, it's a double double whammy. Definitely 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.760 a double whammy if you, yeah, decide to up your 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:29.600 expenditures spend less right now, because yeah, it's gonna wreck 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:31.720 the whole equation. Your days of watching game shows on 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:33.920 TV while you pretended to be homesick from school are 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:38.840 coming back to you. Oh man. So the girls are 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.080 actually off of school one day recently and they went 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:44.000 up to visit my grandma and they ended up watching 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.720 Some Prices right with her. I mean, like, that's the 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:48.480 best game show of all time. It's a classic, and 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.440 my girls know it now. Like even when Drew carry 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.720 at the hell man he rocks. All right, let's talk 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.280 more about spending less and why it's so important. It's 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.560 such an important part of the equation, and spending less 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.680 provide immediate gratification. You know, when we're talking about earning more, 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.920 usually you gotta put in some serious time in order 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:09.400 to reap the rewards um and to be able to 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.280 increase your pay. You might have to get an advanced 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.560 degree or learn new skills in order to get that raise, 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:17.560 or you might have to put in more hours on 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.000 the job site to increase your earnings. But when it 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.680 comes to saving more, you can reap the benefits almost instantaneously. 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.119 By avoiding some of the normal purchase patterns who exhibited before, 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.199 you'll start saving money now. The same is true for 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.360 other ways that we can spend less. They don't typically 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:34.560 require too much time or effort in order to reap 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.800 those rewards. And especially when we're talking about recurring bills, Matt, 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:39.760 that we can cut out of our lives or at 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:43.560 least minimize right by by finding a cheaper service that 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:47.359 brief effort provides an immediate reward, and a reward that 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:49.480 can last for a whole lot of time. Yeah, the 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:51.800 ability man for you to make an immediate change to 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:53.560 your money, the amount of money that you're able to save. 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:56.560 You can't really replicate that when it comes to earning more, 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:58.680 but when it comes to you know, cutting your expenses, 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.200 like that's something literally today, you can immediately see more 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.439 money in your account by not spending that money, right, 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.800 like cutting your own hair exactly. You know people are 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:08.680 into it, right, I've actually thought about not even cutting 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:10.280 my own hair. I'm thinking about kind of continuing the 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.920 whole pandemic long hair thing. When you think about that, 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.080 keep going, man, all right, we'll revisit that in a 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.040 few months and see how terrible things work. I want 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.639 you to go like fabio length or something. Uh if only. 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.359 And also, man, there's maybe the obvious advantage of spending 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.879 less money, which is participating less in consumption and consumerism. 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.200 By doing that, we are able to bring less junk 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:33.200 into our lives, which you know then takes up less 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:36.040 space in our homes um that we didn't have to organize. 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:37.880 And then that has a ripple effect too, because that's 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:39.479 that's less stuff that we have to maintain and then 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.960 keep up with. If we get serious about spending less, 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.560 it really does have this domino effect, which I think 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:49.679 can create more mental sanity, greater happiness. Eventually, I think 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:51.560 this should lead us to to look to the things 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.239 and honestly, namely the people around us that can provide us, 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.679 you know, real meaning, real satisfaction, instead of looking to 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.240 all the stuff that we order online, you know, even 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.240 maybe some of the larger purchases we make, like whether 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.840 it be cars or homes. It's weird to think that 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:09.480 that's saving more money, uh, specifically by spending less can 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.159 have an impact at that deep of a level that 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.119 it really can. Yeah, it's not literally just that it 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.359 helps your bottom line, but we think it's a better 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:19.640 way to live by by cutting your spending and living 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:22.639 more frugally. If we approach spending less from from a 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:25.040 healthy place and we're able to cut back, you and 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.400 I both agree that that the things that are meaningful 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.760 begin to shine even more brightly. Um that that our 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.760 attention gets focused in the right direction when we're focused 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.080 less on bringing more things in our lives and buying 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.240 more stuff. Yeah, totally. And the beginning to shine because 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.200 we have more mental light to shine on those things, 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:44.919 not because they are uh inherently less valuable before. But 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:47.639 if we devote less attention and energy and of our 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:50.880 our time towards those things, uh, they do wane, right. 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.119 And when we have more time, more mental space to 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:55.280 invest in those people and those things, uh, you know, 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:57.359 the better our lives are gonna be. Yeah. And so 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.560 these are some of the I guess the advantages to 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:01.960 spending less. But we're gonna awesome. Make sure that we 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:05.520 get to the drawbacks of spending less and what we think, 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.119 you know, the ultimate solution is, and we'll get to 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:19.080 that right after the break. All right, now we're back 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:21.320 to the break. Let's keep talking about spending less versus 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.639 earning more? Do it? Interesting topic and we've got more 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:28.159 ground to cover here. And interestingly enough, it seems like 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:31.359 the idea of spending less, like can that ever cross 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:34.119 a threshold? Can that ever become something that's bad if 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.040 we put too much focus on that in our lives? 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:38.119 Um And a lot of people in the personal finance 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:41.200 community would say no, Like their frugality is you can 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:43.080 always cut back a little bit more, you can always 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.359 tighten the belt. Yeah, a lot of people say frugality 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:47.280 is always good no matter what we would say. I 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.000 disagree yeah, would we would say that there are limits 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:53.280 to fruit the ability for frugality to pay dividends, and 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:55.600 so yeah, let's talk about the drawbacks spending less. In 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:57.119 the example that we give every week, we have a 0:21:57.119 --> 0:21:59.159 craft beer on the show, and the reason we have 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:02.399 that is because we're prioritizing craft beer. We're prioritizing some 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:04.919 things in life now, we're not only saving for the future. 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.760 And folks could say, uh, well, guys, you could be 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.040 a little more frugal by eliminating that from your budget. 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:11.439 But you know what, for you and me, it's not 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:14.080 worth it. Like that's something that we're going to include, uh, 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:16.240 because it's important to us. And what would we gain 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:19.040 by cutting it out? Just uh, we'd be a few 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.760 a few more bucks a few more bucks there, and 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:23.080 a lot more of a bummer and not get to 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.240 drink the stuff that we are are super interested in 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:27.760 trying exactly. Yeah, And so there are certainly things, you know, 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.720 in specific ways to focus on where you can cut 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:33.000 back things where it's not moving the needle. But if 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:36.000 you are cutting back in areas that kind of really hurt, 0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:37.960 then yeah, you and I, we we feel that could 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:41.040 have a seriously like negative impact, right right, So, okay, 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.080 if we focus too much on spending less, it can 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:46.639 be easy to develop a scarcity mindset, right. This is 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:50.359 by one of the downsides of focusing too hard on 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.360 that one side of the equation and living with that 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:56.120 belief can cause us to relate to money poorly overall, 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:59.320 just have a bad relationship with it. Oftentimes, people that 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:02.119 focus too hard in this direction determined that they have 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:05.040 to hoard money when it comes along. They become penny pinchers, 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:07.760 maybe a stereotype of someone who handles money well, but 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:11.280 basically someone that doesn't have any joy that accompanies the 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:14.320 what should come along with having a financial margin in 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:17.959 their lives. Yeah, and this is how having uh scarcy mindset, 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:20.359 how it can be viewed negatively, right Yeah. Yeah, And 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:22.520 there certainly are a lot of negative associations with the 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:25.440 scarcity mindset. But actually, you know, on episode one eighteen, Matt, 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:27.960 we talked with Christy Chen and I thought she had 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:31.640 some really interesting things to share about what's been positive 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:34.520 for her in having a scarcity mindset. And she um 0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:38.399 grew up actually incredibly poor in China, and then her 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:42.200 family moved to Canada and she was still really bore, 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:46.080 But that scarcity mindset. She credits it in her ability 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:49.840 to develop persepearance and adaptability, and I think it's really cool. 0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:51.720 Like who am I to disagree with Christy Shann who 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:55.040 retired in her early thirties. So I think that a 0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:57.600 scarcity mindset, while it can be really harmful and it 0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:00.679 can lead to that penny pinching in ay to to 0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:02.600 find any joy when it comes to your life in 0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:06.560 regards to personal finances. Yeah, that Gallum lifestyle exactly. There's 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:08.480 also an element to which, you know, you can have 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:11.360 a healthy scarcity mindset, and so yeah, I think that's 0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:14.159 something that's okay to pursue. It's really all about balance 0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:16.080 when it comes to how we view cutting back on 0:24:16.119 --> 0:24:18.359 our spending. Yeah. And in addition to that too, I 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:21.720 mean that scarcity mindset can like really anchor you to reality, right, Like, 0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:23.960 I mean one of the things that it was able 0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:26.320 to cause her to do was just to be Christie, right. 0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:28.480 Was it allowed her to be really resourceful and it 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:30.240 allowed her to kind of, you know, think outside of 0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:32.159 the box in ways that she could save money well, 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:35.119 and actually for her so much of her childhood it 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:37.240 was it was out of necessity, that she developed that 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:40.479 scarcity mindset, that there was an actual scarcity for her, 0:24:40.600 --> 0:24:42.960 for her family. Um, and so she had to get creative. 0:24:43.200 --> 0:24:44.960 And in some of our lives that might be true, 0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:47.720 there might actually be a scarcity, there might not be enough. 0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:51.080 But but for most people it's a scarcity mindset. It's 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:55.280 not actually having a scarcity of resources, right. Yeah, So 0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:57.560 by choosing to, you know, focus on how we could 0:24:57.560 --> 0:24:59.600 spend less a lot of times, Like one of the 0:24:59.640 --> 0:25:01.560 disabey images is that could lead to a lack of 0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:04.879 focus on the big picture. You know, like a focus 0:25:04.920 --> 0:25:07.119 on frugality can lead, like you said, to sort of 0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:09.960 like a penny pinching mindset. Uh, that is focused on 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:12.879 the small things at the expense of the big things 0:25:12.880 --> 0:25:14.720 in life. You know. This is when you know, we 0:25:14.800 --> 0:25:17.320 might cut off our nose to despite our face, Like 0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:19.560 and so we do this by say, driving two extra 0:25:19.600 --> 0:25:22.760 miles or maybe twenty extra miles in order to save 0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:25.560 two cents a gallon on gas. Uh. This is when 0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:29.600 we devalue our time by over prioritizing saving a few 0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:32.159 bucks here and there. We forget that money is a 0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:34.879 tool to help us to achieve the important goals that 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:37.639 we have for ourselves into doing so. Uh, you know, 0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:39.760 we can take the joy out of the journey. And 0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:42.080 so you know, while we do look too, you know, 0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:43.840 two different ways that we can save more money. It 0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:46.400 is important to remember why it is that you're doing so, 0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:49.240 don't lose sight of that big picture. Yeah. Another important 0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:51.320 thing to to relax when it comes to the spending 0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:53.200 less side of the equation is that you can only 0:25:53.600 --> 0:25:56.280 cut so much, right, there comes a point that saving 0:25:56.280 --> 0:25:59.640 more money isn't possible if you're already living a rice 0:25:59.720 --> 0:26:01.880 and being kind of life. How how can you cut 0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:06.000 back even more? Basically, if we just rice, just rice, 0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:08.480 or just beans, no, no way. I love the rice, 0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:11.480 I'm gonna cut the beans. Only get the rice. But 0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:13.200 that's like part of a balanced diet, right, the rice 0:26:13.240 --> 0:26:15.000 and the beans. If you just have one, it's not 0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:17.040 very healthy. Something about the combination of the two. I 0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:19.560 think there's a wallop of nutrients and both rice and beans, 0:26:19.640 --> 0:26:22.960 right exactly. But if you're already living a lifestyle that's 0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:25.680 so frugal that it could be classified as a rice 0:26:25.720 --> 0:26:27.880 and beans kind of lifestyle, there's just not much more 0:26:27.920 --> 0:26:30.720 you can cut in order to increase your savings, and 0:26:30.720 --> 0:26:34.000 so looking to earning more is is really important, and 0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:36.920 you're being shortsighted if you're not looking in that direction. 0:26:37.119 --> 0:26:38.760 I think to mount just a quick warning, I think 0:26:38.760 --> 0:26:40.840 this can be used as an excuse for people to 0:26:40.880 --> 0:26:42.880 not save more. Oh, I just can't cut back anymore. 0:26:43.240 --> 0:26:45.760 And and that is sometimes true for some people, but 0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:47.639 for a lot of us, there are ways we can 0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:50.800 cut which haven't been thoughtful or I would say enough, right, 0:26:50.840 --> 0:26:53.320 strategic enough. Yeah, I would say for most people they 0:26:53.320 --> 0:26:55.760 can cut back, yes, completely, And if folks say that 0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:58.560 they can't, it is more of an actual excuse, not 0:26:58.680 --> 0:27:01.040 because that's the reality that they're they're facing. Right. Yeah, 0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:02.960 you and I we talked recently about like ditching a 0:27:03.000 --> 0:27:04.960 car in your life, and and that's the kind of 0:27:04.960 --> 0:27:08.120 thing where it's strategic. It's not easy to go from 0:27:08.280 --> 0:27:10.880 two cars to one car, right, That's not a simple 0:27:10.920 --> 0:27:12.840 thing to do, but it is possible for a lot 0:27:12.840 --> 0:27:14.320 of people, and it's one of those things where you 0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:17.320 can typically cut that out. But there is also the reality, 0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:19.520 right that exists when you're focusing on this side of 0:27:19.520 --> 0:27:23.240 the equation that cutting past a certain point provides diminishing returns, 0:27:23.320 --> 0:27:25.320 and it can make money feel like a drudgery. And 0:27:25.320 --> 0:27:26.919 and that's not what we're about either. We don't want 0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:29.480 you to live a lifestyle where you're looking at every 0:27:29.520 --> 0:27:31.520 single cent that comes in or goes out. We want 0:27:31.560 --> 0:27:34.199 you to have more freedom and a healthier relationship with 0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:37.239 money that doesn't involve cutting to the bare bones. And 0:27:37.240 --> 0:27:39.199 by the way, I'm totally fine with people looking at 0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:41.320 every single cent that comes in and out. It's just 0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:43.560 the matter of like having to make a judgment calls 0:27:44.160 --> 0:27:46.879 every single sinse Yeah exactly, I'm all about tracking it 0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:49.680 to the Pennyboddy. I know you are another thing. Man. 0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:52.399 In an attempt to save more, you can also end 0:27:52.480 --> 0:27:54.880 up cheaping out on other things. You know, you might 0:27:54.920 --> 0:27:58.320 turn down, uh, you know, incredible opportunities to be with 0:27:58.359 --> 0:28:00.520 people or maybe to go see a for and getting 0:28:00.520 --> 0:28:03.920 married because of attempts to save more money. I'm thinking 0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:06.240 about an instance recently when Kate, now we're thinking about 0:28:06.240 --> 0:28:08.000 going on a trip, and it looked like I was 0:28:08.000 --> 0:28:11.440 gonna be able to save money by contacting the lady directly, 0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:13.800 and guess what we lost out on the place because 0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:17.240 I was looking to save like another ten percent. Bummer, Uh, 0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:19.399 that's that's an example that came back to bite me 0:28:19.440 --> 0:28:22.479 and something that Kate reminded me of recently. And this 0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:24.240 isn't to say that like sometimes we don't have to 0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:26.160 make hard decisions, but you know, I think we can 0:28:26.200 --> 0:28:29.639 have some big regrets over money we were unwilling to 0:28:29.680 --> 0:28:32.359 spend if it means missing out on, you know, some 0:28:32.440 --> 0:28:35.800 possibly really important milestones. It makes me think of the 0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:37.399 there's this guy that we kind of ran across on 0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:39.840 Reddit that we heard about who eventually he lost his 0:28:39.840 --> 0:28:42.920 girlfriend for not spending money to go on a trip 0:28:42.920 --> 0:28:44.600 with her, I think, to maybe see her parents something 0:28:44.600 --> 0:28:46.160 like that. That's but I feel like that's one of 0:28:46.200 --> 0:28:49.400 the ultimate frugal versus cheaps. And that's why we we 0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:52.560 always talk about that is because there is more to 0:28:52.600 --> 0:28:55.280 consider than just the bottom line right then, than just 0:28:55.360 --> 0:28:57.720 the dollar amount. There are things that you have to weigh, 0:28:58.080 --> 0:28:59.720 and that's honestly, what can be so tricky when it 0:28:59.720 --> 0:29:02.000 comes to personal finances. Yeah, like the feelings of the 0:29:02.000 --> 0:29:05.160 person closest to you and whether or not they're still 0:29:05.200 --> 0:29:06.480 gonna be cool with you if you don't go on 0:29:06.480 --> 0:29:08.480 the trip with them, And those are important things to 0:29:08.520 --> 0:29:12.480 consider and and yes, but those relational dynamics are so 0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:15.600 crucial to you know, the happiness that we experience in 0:29:15.640 --> 0:29:19.080 our lives. And if we are too cheap um, because 0:29:19.200 --> 0:29:22.160 we're we're so focused on spending less, we're gonna miss 0:29:22.160 --> 0:29:24.600 out and we're gonna let the people closest to us 0:29:24.680 --> 0:29:26.800 down from kind of time um. And so yeah, that 0:29:26.880 --> 0:29:28.920 is a hard balance to strike, but it's an important 0:29:28.920 --> 0:29:30.880 one to strike. And I think Matt, you know, one 0:29:30.880 --> 0:29:33.640 more downside to focusing too much on the spending less 0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:36.400 side of the equation is the extreme focus and discipline 0:29:36.400 --> 0:29:39.480 that it takes. Willpower is finite, and constantly tracking every 0:29:39.480 --> 0:29:43.120 penny can become exhausting for people, not for some, not 0:29:43.200 --> 0:29:45.680 for you. You're kind of a prol at it. Well again, 0:29:45.720 --> 0:29:47.680 I feel like it's less the tracking, and it's it's 0:29:47.720 --> 0:29:49.960 like the constant like okay, am I going to spend 0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:51.640 money on this? You know? And so like when you're 0:29:51.640 --> 0:29:54.520 constantly when you have this like mental fatigue because you're 0:29:54.560 --> 0:29:57.680 constantly making judgment calls like that's what's hard, or constantly 0:29:57.720 --> 0:30:00.480 saying no to like these things that could actually bring 0:30:00.480 --> 0:30:02.800 you joy, but instead you're saying no at every turn, 0:30:02.920 --> 0:30:05.040 Like I think I think that's when it specifically can 0:30:05.080 --> 0:30:07.000 can really become exhausting. Yeah, And that's why, you know, 0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:09.680 we're fans of automating as much of your finances as 0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:12.760 you can so that there's less of a mental impact 0:30:12.960 --> 0:30:15.360 that you have to make when it comes to financial decisions. 0:30:15.640 --> 0:30:17.800 And the great thing is too, that making a couple 0:30:17.880 --> 0:30:21.120 of bigger savings decisions can cut your costs for months 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:23.920 or years to come. Those are the best kind of savings, 0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:26.840 the ones that recur, repeat, and that are big in number. 0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:29.040 But one of the drawbacks to only focusing on spending 0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:31.040 less is that it can be difficult to do for 0:30:31.120 --> 0:30:34.680 too long. That again shows the need for balance when 0:30:34.720 --> 0:30:37.360 it comes to holding these two intentions when we're talking 0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:39.680 about earning more and spending less, like they're both just 0:30:39.880 --> 0:30:42.680 wonderful things to do, um, but it's just really really 0:30:42.680 --> 0:30:45.240 hard to say that one is more important than the other. Yeah. 0:30:45.240 --> 0:30:48.720 So that's why not surprisingly doing both is the answer here. 0:30:48.800 --> 0:30:51.080 This is the answer to the saving more or the 0:30:51.120 --> 0:30:54.280 spending less debate. The the easiest way to visualize this 0:30:54.680 --> 0:30:58.280 is by widening the gap and the gap between what 0:30:58.360 --> 0:31:00.840 we bring in and what goes out your month. That 0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:03.920 gap is your savings rate. And by focusing on the 0:31:04.000 --> 0:31:07.320 lever of earning more and spending less, we'll be able 0:31:07.320 --> 0:31:09.840 to develop a larger gap and we'll be able to 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:12.800 see the greatest return with the least amount of fatigue. Yeah, 0:31:12.920 --> 0:31:16.080 and then we're we're holding the abundance and scarcity mindsets, 0:31:16.120 --> 0:31:19.120 and like the proper tension, we're not buying in wholeheartedly 0:31:19.160 --> 0:31:20.880 to one or the other and saying no, I can 0:31:20.880 --> 0:31:24.040 always earn more, There's always there's abundance out there, um, 0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:27.120 and I'll always have enough or there's not enough. There's 0:31:27.160 --> 0:31:28.720 never enough, and I have to hoard everything that comes 0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:31.360 into my life. Neither of those are super healthy ways 0:31:31.400 --> 0:31:34.480 to live when it comes to money. So turning both dials, 0:31:34.800 --> 0:31:37.160 the dial of earning more and of spending less in 0:31:37.200 --> 0:31:40.520 moderation is the best fit for most people. Holding both 0:31:40.760 --> 0:31:42.920 in the right esteem is going to breed the best results. 0:31:43.280 --> 0:31:45.160 But it's not always a perfect balance, right, Matt, and 0:31:45.280 --> 0:31:47.160 you talked about this at the beginning of the episode, 0:31:47.480 --> 0:31:50.560 that our personalities do come into play here. So, Yeah, 0:31:50.560 --> 0:31:52.960 what's your take when we're talking about the sales person 0:31:53.080 --> 0:31:56.760 or the entrepreneurial type who does say, hey, I don't know, man, 0:31:56.800 --> 0:31:58.800 the earning more thing is just way way easier for 0:31:58.840 --> 0:32:02.120 me or the stream frugalide who says, give me more tips, 0:32:02.200 --> 0:32:04.440 that's the thing I'm best at. Um, how would you 0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:08.080 suggest people think about the balance given different personality types 0:32:08.120 --> 0:32:10.760 that exist in different tendencies towards towards each side of 0:32:10.760 --> 0:32:13.000 this coin. Yeah, well, we all have different skills, right, 0:32:13.040 --> 0:32:15.200 we all have different talents, and like that's fine, Like 0:32:15.240 --> 0:32:18.200 that that's actually great because that's what makes us individual people. 0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:20.840 Some people have an incredible ability to use their talents 0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:24.480 to generate a fantastic income. That's awesome. So maybe put 0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:27.200 like eighty percent of your efforts there towards earning. But 0:32:27.280 --> 0:32:29.280 don't be one of those people who doesn't touch the 0:32:29.320 --> 0:32:32.800 spending less style at all. You know. That's what leads 0:32:32.840 --> 0:32:35.720 to the stories we read about, uh where high income earners, 0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:38.120 where they're living paycheck to paycheck, where they they feel 0:32:38.120 --> 0:32:41.280 that they can always out earned what it is they're spending. 0:32:41.320 --> 0:32:43.720 We want to make sure that UHH, I don't know, Like, 0:32:43.800 --> 0:32:45.680 you want to focus on the things that you're truly 0:32:45.840 --> 0:32:48.760 are good at, but at the same time, don't only 0:32:48.800 --> 0:32:50.239 focus on that. Like a lot of things in life. 0:32:50.280 --> 0:32:51.720 We want to make sure that we approach that with 0:32:51.760 --> 0:32:54.040 balance and mind. Yeah, I like that if you know 0:32:54.160 --> 0:32:57.080 your own propensity, that you're way more focused in this 0:32:57.120 --> 0:32:59.360 one direction. We'll put eight percent of your efforts there. 0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:01.800 That's a good rule thumb, and then the other towards 0:33:01.800 --> 0:33:04.080 the things you're not naturally good at, because you're gonna 0:33:04.080 --> 0:33:07.040 need to develop some money muscles in that direction, right, 0:33:07.040 --> 0:33:09.680 And I think the same thing if you're a frugal mastermind, 0:33:09.800 --> 0:33:12.560 put your efforts there because you're obviously really good at it, 0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:15.440 but then trying to focus twenty of your efforts towards 0:33:15.560 --> 0:33:18.800 knowing your worth maybe uh to to increase your income 0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:21.880 over time. And I think most people met are gonna 0:33:21.920 --> 0:33:24.560 probably fall somewhere more along the fifty, fifty or sixty 0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:27.440 side of the spectrum, which is great. But it is 0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:30.240 important to know yourself, know your strengths, and play to 0:33:30.320 --> 0:33:33.440 those strengths while also being cognizant that both sides of 0:33:33.440 --> 0:33:35.760 the equation are important, because if we get too far 0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:38.960 to one side to imbalanced, then it really could lead 0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:42.240 to financial hardship for us at some future point in time. 0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:44.720 And we want people to be strong in their finances 0:33:44.720 --> 0:33:47.600 strong in their earnings and strong in how much they're 0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:49.200 able to spend, how much they're able to keep of 0:33:49.200 --> 0:33:51.480 what they bring in. Yeah, and so maybe a little 0:33:51.560 --> 0:33:53.880 awareness exercise for folks to do is like, like you 0:33:53.960 --> 0:33:55.560 might be thinking through this and you're not totally sure 0:33:55.640 --> 0:33:57.560 like what side of the fence you would fall on, 0:33:57.960 --> 0:33:59.680 And I think a good thing to do is maybe 0:33:59.720 --> 0:34:02.400 think through, Like imagine if you got like a big 0:34:02.520 --> 0:34:05.920 medical bill or like like a massive ongoing expense that 0:34:05.960 --> 0:34:07.960 you're going to have to quickly come up with a 0:34:08.000 --> 0:34:10.319 way to pay. Think through how it is that you 0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:13.680 would naturally think to cover that expense still your credit card? 0:34:14.200 --> 0:34:17.880 I would still you m would you think of ways 0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:20.600 to maybe cut expenses from your life or are you 0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:23.239 is your natural inclination to think of ways to earn 0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:25.880 more money. I think it's important to maybe identify whatever 0:34:26.200 --> 0:34:29.600 your default is and certainly to pull that lever. But 0:34:29.640 --> 0:34:31.320 then at the same time, don't forget the rest of 0:34:31.360 --> 0:34:33.560 the equation, you know, like, if your natural inclination is 0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:35.560 to earn more money, well, don't forget there are some 0:34:35.600 --> 0:34:37.520 great ways that you could maybe cut some expenses from 0:34:37.520 --> 0:34:40.440 your life. Or if your natural inclination is to all right, 0:34:40.600 --> 0:34:42.319 we're slashing the budget. We're never gonna go out to 0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:44.600 eat again. You can only cut so much from your life, 0:34:44.600 --> 0:34:46.839 and so instead maybe like kind of broaden your scope 0:34:46.840 --> 0:34:48.560 a little bit, think about ways that you could earn 0:34:48.560 --> 0:34:50.239 more money. This is one of those areas where I 0:34:50.239 --> 0:34:52.200 feel like it's just really important to know yourself. Yeah, 0:34:52.239 --> 0:34:54.080 I would say, um, if I was to run through 0:34:54.120 --> 0:34:56.040 that mental exercise, it would be that we're gonna cut 0:34:56.080 --> 0:34:57.640 and would be that we're gonna stop doing this and 0:34:57.680 --> 0:35:00.239 stop doing that for a while. And so, yeah, I've 0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:02.279 learned that about myself over the years that I am 0:35:02.360 --> 0:35:05.880 naturally more of a frugal person and my brain goes 0:35:06.040 --> 0:35:08.799 less frequently to how can I increase my earnings? And 0:35:08.840 --> 0:35:10.960 so I've had to try to kind of push my 0:35:11.000 --> 0:35:12.640 brain in that direction. I think it's been really good. 0:35:12.640 --> 0:35:14.719 It's been healthy for me because I can tend to 0:35:14.719 --> 0:35:17.560 be one of those more like people where I'm more 0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:20.120 in on the frugal side. Um, and I'd rather be 0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:23.040 somewhere like the spectrum. And I think it's a great 0:35:23.080 --> 0:35:25.440 exercise that can kind of help people see where they 0:35:25.480 --> 0:35:27.719 fall so that they can at least be aware of 0:35:27.719 --> 0:35:30.240 that bias and then they can kind of work towards 0:35:30.320 --> 0:35:32.600 remedying it. That's right, man, Awareness, that's the first step, 0:35:32.640 --> 0:35:35.520 It's true. All right. Let's get back to the beer 0:35:35.600 --> 0:35:37.759 that we had on this episode, Matt. This one is 0:35:37.760 --> 0:35:41.880 called Bad Bunny Pie. Uh. It's uh interesting fruited sour 0:35:42.040 --> 0:35:45.680 by the folks at Tripping Animals Brewing. So yeah, that's 0:35:45.680 --> 0:35:47.359 actually the type of beer. It's written on the can 0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:53.320 interesting fruited sour. So it's literally a sour ale with BlackBerry, cherry, peach, graham, cracker, vanilla, 0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:55.359 and milk sugar. So this, yeah, one of those kitchen 0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:57.200 sinks hours with a lot of stuff. And what were 0:35:57.200 --> 0:35:59.440 your thoughts on this one? Well, yeah, just to clarify, 0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:01.640 it doesn't actually say interesting on the can. That's that's 0:36:01.640 --> 0:36:03.319 the word that you like to throw in there. But 0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:04.880 but I think the reason you did it, like is 0:36:04.920 --> 0:36:06.719 by the way you just described it like kitchen sink 0:36:06.800 --> 0:36:08.920 kind of beer. It's got a lot of different flavors 0:36:08.920 --> 0:36:11.799 going on. But that doesn't mean it wasn't good, right. Uh. 0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:13.120 You know, I feel like as I was drinking, the 0:36:13.120 --> 0:36:15.600 first thing I noticed was the fruit, like right off 0:36:15.640 --> 0:36:19.440 the bat, like cherry, but then peach like peach. It 0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:22.040 made me think of those like the old school peach 0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:24.359 ring candies that you get at like the you know, 0:36:24.400 --> 0:36:25.960 like the candy market kind of thing, you know I'm 0:36:25.960 --> 0:36:28.239 talking about. It's sitting there in the clear plastic. It's 0:36:28.239 --> 0:36:30.200 like hanging from the paper at the top. Is it 0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:32.879 chewy candy. It's covered in sugar. I could not get 0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:35.239 past the peach flavors on this one. But at the 0:36:35.239 --> 0:36:37.320 same time that you're tasting that fruit, there is also 0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:40.320 kind of vanilla lactose kind of like milk sugar flavors 0:36:40.360 --> 0:36:42.680 going on, where it just kind of really made it creamy, 0:36:43.000 --> 0:36:44.680 like it almost kind of reminded me of the milkshake 0:36:44.680 --> 0:36:46.800 a little bit. But yeah, I thought the Graham cracker 0:36:46.840 --> 0:36:49.440 to get added a nice little touch. It just kind 0:36:49.440 --> 0:36:51.879 of like a hint of fall time going on. So yeah, 0:36:51.920 --> 0:36:53.480 I feel like it made it kind of a proper 0:36:53.520 --> 0:36:55.960 sour for the fall, and especially because it's trying to 0:36:55.960 --> 0:36:59.160 conjure up these pie flavors, right, and what's better than 0:36:59.200 --> 0:37:02.120 having like a root pie, uh, you know, during this 0:37:02.160 --> 0:37:04.040 time of year. I'm all about it. So yeah, it 0:37:04.080 --> 0:37:05.440 was all about this beer too. I thought it was 0:37:05.680 --> 0:37:09.319 really interesting, unique, fun and delicious. The fact that it's 0:37:09.320 --> 0:37:11.480 got vanilla, and it actually makes me think of like, uh, 0:37:11.920 --> 0:37:13.880 apple pie or not apple pie, I guess, but like 0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:16.359 cherry pie, peach pie a la mode. You know, it's 0:37:16.360 --> 0:37:18.080 sort of like when the ice cream is melted a 0:37:18.080 --> 0:37:19.520 good bit and it's kind of just like all kind 0:37:19.520 --> 0:37:21.960 of running together feeling there and at that point you 0:37:22.040 --> 0:37:25.320 gotta switch to the spoon. That's what his beer reminded 0:37:25.360 --> 0:37:28.399 me of. Yeah, man, this was dull delicious. All right. Well, 0:37:28.400 --> 0:37:31.279 that's gonna do it for this episode. For folks that 0:37:31.400 --> 0:37:34.440 want show notes for this episode, we'll have those up 0:37:34.440 --> 0:37:36.600 on our website at how to money dot com. And 0:37:36.680 --> 0:37:38.360 so I feel like this is one of these episodes 0:37:38.400 --> 0:37:40.880 that can lend itself to conversation, you know, that this 0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:43.200 is one of these episodes that is addressing sort of 0:37:43.239 --> 0:37:45.959 like the philosophy of money or you know, in this case, 0:37:46.000 --> 0:37:47.560 like how it is that we can save more, Like 0:37:47.640 --> 0:37:49.200 it's you're gonna do one of the two things. You're 0:37:49.160 --> 0:37:51.560 either gonna earn more, you're gonna spend less, or both 0:37:52.200 --> 0:37:53.960 at the same time exactly. And I feel that this 0:37:54.040 --> 0:37:55.600 would be a good episode to maybe let a friend 0:37:55.760 --> 0:37:57.960 know about you know, this is uh an episode. We're 0:37:58.200 --> 0:38:00.600 kind of talking about theory, like the theory of money 0:38:00.600 --> 0:38:02.239 and how it is that we handle our money. So 0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:04.640 let a friend know who might be interested in something 0:38:04.680 --> 0:38:07.520 like this, and hopefully that sparked some conversation between the 0:38:07.520 --> 0:38:09.879 two of you and ultimately leads you both to doing 0:38:09.920 --> 0:38:12.279 smarter things with your money, no doubt. All right, man, 0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:15.879 Well until next time, then, best friends out, Best friends Out.