1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. 2 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: One baby after the next dies, one tiny knee born, 3 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 2: then the next, then the next, then the next, all 4 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 2: of natural causes. Wow, that's quite the coincidence, is it not? 5 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: But as I often say, there is no coincidence in 6 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: criminal law. Interesting many of the infants that die are twins, triplets. 7 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: And note this is not happening at some horrible foster 8 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 2: home we read about, not some orphanage far far away. 9 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: This is in a renowned hospital. I mean to see grace. 10 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 2: This is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 11 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 2: here at Vaccination in Serious XEM one eleven. First of all, 12 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 2: take a listen to our friend Rita Chawickerbardi. 13 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 3: They thought their son was in safe hands with nurse 14 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 3: let Be, but a short time later they were told 15 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 3: he was dangerously ill and they rushed back to find 16 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 3: doctors trying to save him. 17 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 4: We were taken in and we were told to talk 18 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 4: to him and hold his hand. And then the conversation 19 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 4: with the consultant and she said, you know, we're going 20 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 4: to stop. 21 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 2: It's not helping. 22 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 5: We want diye in. 23 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: Your arms and more from Rita Chakrabarti. 24 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 3: These are the parents of twin boys born prematurely. Their 25 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 3: mum was taking milk to them when she heard one 26 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 3: of her sons crying loudly. 27 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 4: They have brought rand his mouth and Lucy was there, 28 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 4: what flashing about, not really not doing anything. Lucy, don't worry. 29 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 4: The registrub was coming and she told me to. 30 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 2: Go back to the ward. 31 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 3: The baby's mument left him in this intensive care area 32 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 3: and went to call her husband to crying. 33 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 4: I've never heard anything like it since it was screaming. 34 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 4: It was screaming, and I was like, what's the matter 35 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 4: with them? 36 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 3: Legally we can't identify the families in this case. The 37 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 3: stories are distressing. 38 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 2: Even the babies don't have names. This is the mom 39 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 2: and dad of babies E and F from our friends 40 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: at BBC. I'm just trying to get my head around 41 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 2: what I'm hearing. Hearing your child screaming and not understanding 42 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 2: what was wrong. You know, Alexis Tereschuk joining me, investigative 43 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 2: reporter with Crime Online dot Com. Alexis, you and I 44 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: both went through a lot to give birth right and. 45 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 6: You were by my side the whole time. 46 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 2: That's right. Don't made me start crying because now we 47 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 2: have this beautiful boy. That's amazing. I'm thinking back to 48 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 2: these when we were in neonatal nick cut neonatal intensive care, well, 49 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: the children were and I was in intensive care, but 50 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: I was just thinking about when I would sit with 51 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: them all day long until I was told I had 52 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 2: to leave. Leaving them there and hearing them cry, it 53 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: was just there's something something about it. Never bothered me 54 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: this way before I had twin, had the children, But now, 55 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 2: even now, fifteen years later, when I hear a baby scream, 56 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: it just, uh, it just turns me inside out. Did 57 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 2: that happen to you? And I hear a baby scream, 58 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 2: the impulse to run to the baby. I never had 59 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: that before. I mean, I felt bad for the child. 60 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: I was wondering what was wrong. But once you have 61 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 2: a child, is it something instinctive? Is it physical? What 62 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: is that? 63 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 6: And even it is, it's a difference when you hear 64 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 6: a cry of I'm hungry, I have a wet diaper, 65 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 6: but when a child is in pain, you feel it 66 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 6: so much more. I have since having my son, and 67 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 6: I know with you and how much you spent all 68 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 6: of your time with them because they were so tiny 69 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 6: and so little when they were born, You're. 70 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 2: Right, Alexis Terraschuk. Karen Stark joining us a renowned psychologist 71 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: in Manhattan, TV radio trauma expert consultant, and you can 72 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: find her Karenstark dot com Karen with a C if 73 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: you're trying to find her, Karen, is it physical because 74 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: I never had that reaction before. I mean, there were 75 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 2: times in the district Attorney's office when a child was 76 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: a victim. I would cry secretly, not front of the jury, 77 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 2: about what happened to the child. But when you hear 78 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 2: a baby screaming now, and for me, it didn't matter 79 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 2: if it was a wet diepee or they were hungry. 80 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: When I heard that scream, it literally would send chills 81 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 2: all over me and I would have to just run 82 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 2: to find out what was wrong and try to fix it. 83 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 7: It's a hormone that exists between mothers and babies. And 84 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 7: there are stories that perhaps you can relate to this 85 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 7: where a mother gets up in the middle of the 86 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 7: night and as soon as she opens her eyes, the 87 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 7: baby starts to cry and it says though the baby 88 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 7: had communicated that, And that's the hormone that you have 89 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 7: when you attached to a child. 90 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 2: I cannot imagine why I still have a fifty years on. 91 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: But that said, I'm just thinking about these parents that 92 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 2: are told there's something wrong with the baby, and the 93 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: baby is screaming, and they leave the baby. They're told 94 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 2: to leave the baby with the nurse, and the baby dies. 95 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 2: Not just one, not just two, but then another and 96 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 2: another and another. Take a listen to our friends at 97 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 2: Channel four. 98 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 8: They twin boys known as Babies L and M. We're 99 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 8: just a day old. They both survived, but it took 100 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 8: almost thirty minutes to restart Babym's heart. Experts say the 101 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 8: crash was likely caused by air being injected into his bloodstream. 102 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 8: His brother was poisoned with insulin that their parents weren't 103 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 8: told that for two years. 104 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 6: We didn't know anything even afterwards, until the police came knocking. 105 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 2: Air being injected into the bloodstream. Now I could understand 106 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: one mistake, but when one twin has air being injected 107 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 2: into their bloodstream and the other twin is poisoned with insulin, 108 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 2: that is no mistake. For two babies, twins to be 109 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 2: injected with potentially lethal substances. Joining me right now, two 110 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: renowned experts, Kat Thornton and our friend doctor Kendall Crowns 111 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: doctor Kendall Crown's Chief Medical Examiner, Terrance County. That's fort 112 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 2: Worth Lecturer, University Texas and Texas Christian University Medical School, 113 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: Kat Thornton. She's got so many initials by her name, 114 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 2: BSN R N. I know what that one means, EMT. 115 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: I know that one means Neo Natal Nursing Expert, Registered nurse, 116 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: Forensic nurse expert with Goodoy Medical Forensics. Kat. Thank you 117 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: so much for being with us. Kat. I'm just remembering 118 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: all the weeks, actually months that John, David and Lucy 119 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 2: Lucy the longest were in neonatal Intensive care unit and 120 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: that was fifteen years ago. And do you know, Kat, 121 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 2: I am still in touch with the nurses, some of 122 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: them that took care of the twins. They. I remember 123 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: one day I was in IC at the other end 124 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 2: of the hospital. They were in Nick You, and I 125 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 2: pretty sure I put on a pair of tights before 126 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 2: I took off. I still had on the gown that's 127 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: opening the back. Yes, I did definitely put on tights 128 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: before I made my way all through the secuitous route 129 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: of the hospital to get to Nick You. And I 130 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 2: was attached to one of the what do you say, 131 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 2: kat a drip bag on a roller like a close hagar? 132 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 2: Is that really tall? 133 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 7: Yeah? 134 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 2: And Ivy pump that yes. Listen. They didn't teach se 135 00:08:58,080 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 2: any of that in law school all the way over there. 136 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 2: And ultimately found out that I had set off the 137 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 2: alarms by going through the wrong door leaving ICU. Okay, 138 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: so I had ultimately had a trail of hospital police 139 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 2: trying to find out how the alarm went off. But 140 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 2: those neonatal nurses were amazing, incredible, and I really believe 141 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 2: no offense. Doctor Kendle crowns that I owe the twins' 142 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: lives to the neonatal nurses at Northside Hospital in Atlanta. 143 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 2: I had been going to sign I in New York, 144 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 2: but came home to visit my parents on a weekend 145 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 2: and wouldn't you know, emergency CEA section And they I 146 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: trusted them when I couldn't be there. It's a huge 147 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 2: burden for a neonatal nurse. 148 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 9: It is a burden and a huge responsibility and also 149 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 9: a privilege to be able to care for these children 150 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 9: at their mostvulnerable states, and these families in their most 151 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 9: vulnerable states. Many many of them have gone through all 152 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 9: kinds of toil and trouble just trying to get pregnant, 153 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 9: and then to deliver early or to have complications during delivery. 154 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 6: It's just heart. 155 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 9: Wrenching for these families to not be able to go 156 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 9: through a natural birth process and take your child home 157 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 9: with you. But just as you said, Nancy, to leave 158 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 9: them in the care of others who you really don't know, 159 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 9: but you have to trust them. And the nic nurses 160 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 9: are a very special special breed, the physicians, the nurses, 161 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 9: all those that care for those babies. So you had 162 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 9: obviously a very good experience with the staff that cared 163 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 9: for your twins. 164 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 2: I really did, And you know, doctor Kendall Crowns, I 165 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 2: do remember that these parents were told by a consultant 166 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 2: that they should leave, but I felt that I would be. 167 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 2: Lucy was in a lot worse shape than John David was. 168 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 2: Although they were in really bad shape, Lucy only weighed 169 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: two pounds Doctor Kendall Crowns, and I remember they thought 170 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: she was going to be blind and there was a 171 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: procedure where they actually had to put a needle into 172 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 2: her eye and a doctor and my husband said, do 173 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 2: you want to leave? Because they obviously thought I couldn't 174 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 2: take it. I didn't think I could take it either, 175 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 2: but I didn't think I could leave Lucy there to 176 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 2: face that without her mother, even though she really didn't 177 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: know me yet. It's so emotional. Doctor, just have you 178 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 2: had that experience during your rotation or when you deal 179 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: with child victims. It's just gut wrenching for the parents. 180 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 2: I think more than anything, well, I always. 181 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 10: Think it's unfortunate when a child dies, and I think 182 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 10: as a parent myself, it's hard to see when a 183 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 10: life that has potential and so much hope associated with 184 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 10: it is kind of tragically snuffed out at an early age. 185 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 10: To me, king cases are the worst cases, especially in 186 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 10: a child abuse where you know someone else could have 187 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 10: raised their child, loved that child, adopted them and taking 188 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 10: care of them. And in situations where any any child 189 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 10: is murdered. 190 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 2: It's just horrible the toll it takes on parents and 191 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: they second guess every single thing, every move they made. 192 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 2: Would it have changed the outcome? Would my baby, my twins, 193 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 2: my triplets be alive today. Take a listener. Friends at BBC. 194 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 3: On the unit, there were typically up to three deaths 195 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 3: a year, but they have that number in the month 196 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 3: of June alone, and the pattern continued with babies dying 197 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 3: or coming close to death. 198 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 11: No one suspected any foul play. After several unexpected and 199 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 11: near deaths in just over half a year, a second 200 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 11: review was ordered, with inspectors issuing concerns about staffing levels 201 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 11: that summer. Hospital bosses described reaching a tipping point after 202 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 11: the deaths of siblings Baby O and. 203 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 2: P O, P hold on A B C D E 204 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 2: F G H I J K L M N O 205 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 2: P Q seventeen babies. Because the babies are their names 206 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 2: aren't public, so they've been assigned letters and we've got 207 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 2: a baby. 208 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: Q Prime stories with Nancy Greasee. 209 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 2: You know Kat Thornton joining me, highly respected nenatal nursing expert. 210 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 2: I guess in the NICKU neonatal Intensive care unit, the 211 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 2: children are already at such a high risk. Like I said, Lucy, 212 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 2: My little Lucy was two pounds and we knew it 213 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 2: was a long shot. But north Side and the nick 214 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 2: You nurses and doctors saved her and John David's lives. 215 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 2: So when you have death, I guess that's expected, not happy, 216 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: but expected. In the NIKKI would you agree with that. 217 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 9: Kat, Well, we never like to say it's expected, but 218 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 9: some of these children are in such severe physiological Oh gosh, 219 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 9: that's not right. Some of these premature babies are so 220 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 9: sick their little organs are not developed in us to 221 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 9: be functioning outside the womb yet, and we are basically 222 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 9: assisting them by artificial means. So we do see death 223 00:14:55,320 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 9: in the NICU. We see a lot of children who 224 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 9: have who have issues with their lungs, with their heart, 225 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 9: with their vision. Kind of what you said. So, any 226 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 9: any instance where something happens that is unexpected, we're going 227 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 9: to watch and try and see what happened, what we 228 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 9: can do to fix that situation, what medications we can 229 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 9: insist them with and try to help them just to 230 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 9: continue to grow as if they were inside the mother's womb. 231 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 2: I've never heard it peel like that. That's fascinating to me. 232 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 2: So I guess to you, doctor Kendall, Crown's in a 233 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 2: hospital setting, you expect, you don't want it, but you 234 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 2: know a likely outcome with very ill children, very premature children, 235 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 2: They could die. And I doubt pretty seriously that anyone 236 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: suspects foul play under those conditions. How would you find out, 237 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 2: say a baby dies, an infant, a kneeborn, a twin, 238 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 2: how would you find out that someone had injected in air? 239 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 2: And I wanted to say an air bubble, But how 240 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 2: do you find out? How do you figure out that 241 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 2: air has been injected into a baby and killed it? 242 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 2: And how does it kill the baby? 243 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 10: So injection of air in the hospital setting, you have 244 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 10: to have an idea that someone maybe up to something 245 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 10: to catch it. Sometimes the physicians or the nurses are 246 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 10: suspicious when a child or even adult dies unexpectedly and 247 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 10: there's no reason. The problem is that you can get 248 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 10: away with it for a period of time because hospital 249 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 10: deaths aren't necessarily brought to a medical examiner's office, and 250 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 10: they're not necessarily autopsy. So usually it's a pattern where 251 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 10: they see this a number of times and then they 252 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 10: start getting suspect and then autopsies you don't so add autopsy. 253 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 10: How you spot an air emblass is if there's a 254 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 10: suspicion of it when you do the X ray, you 255 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 10: can spot air. 256 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: An air emblass. What is an enblass? 257 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 10: First of all, an embolas is a large clot basically, 258 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 10: so an emblass of air is a clock of air 259 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 10: in the bass cardiovascar system. An X ray you can 260 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 10: spot it. It's kind of like a black area in 261 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 10: the heart, usually in the right ventricle as well, where 262 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 10: we'll see it. So at autopsy, when you're doing the autopsy, 263 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 10: you actually open the pair of cardial sack, which is 264 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 10: a sack around the heart. You fill it with water 265 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 10: and then you coke the right ventricle and bubbles will 266 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 10: come out, air bubbles, and when you see those, you 267 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 10: know you're dealing with an air emblass. Again, it's easily 268 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 10: easily missed at autopsy unless you have a suspicious suspicion 269 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 10: for it, so you have to have the X ray is, 270 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 10: and what the X ray is when you do the 271 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 10: proper autopsy techniques catch it. So air embolism is one 272 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 10: of those hard ones to spot at autopsy. 273 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 2: Trying to take in everything you're saying, and I know 274 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 2: it's by wrote for you because you've done so many 275 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 2: autopsies thousands, but for me to think of a newborn 276 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 2: baby lying on one of those cold autopsy tables being 277 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 2: sliced open, and you're filling up the pair of cardium 278 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: sack which goes around the heart and trying to figure 279 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 2: out was air injected into this baby. It's very upsetting 280 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 2: for us regular people, doctor Kendall Crowns. But I thank 281 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 2: God for you and other doctors across the country like you, 282 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 2: because from what I can tell, this may be the 283 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 2: single most prolific child killer in the world. One baby 284 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: after the next, after the next, after the next dies. 285 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 2: What is the common denominator one thing, Lucy let Be. 286 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 2: Take a listen to doctor John Gibbs, who worked with 287 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: Lucy let Be on ITV. 288 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 5: There was nothing about her behavior or her attitude that 289 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 5: worried me at all. The problem with lucy let Be 290 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 5: was that she was consistently associated with an increasing number 291 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 5: of unusual collapses and deaths were happening on the unit. 292 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 5: That's where the. 293 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 2: Worry was and more from doctor Stephen Breery. 294 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 12: Lucy let Be was there, she was sitting next to me. 295 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 12: I spoke to her and said, how tired and upset 296 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 12: she must be after two days of this, and hope 297 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 12: that she was and have a rest for a weekend. 298 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 12: And she turned to me and said, no, I'm back 299 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 12: on shift tomorrow. The other staff were very traumatized by 300 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 12: all of this, but you were crumbling before your eyes almost, 301 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 12: and she was quite happy and confident to come into work. 302 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 2: Okay, Greg Algren is joining me international lawyer with Diaz Ruis. 303 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 2: They practice all over the United States and beyond. Greg Algren, Yes, 304 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 2: she was there when all of these babies were found dead, 305 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 2: when they were dying, when they were screaming with blood 306 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 2: on their mouth, as you heard the one father describe. 307 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 2: But that is entirely and yes, I've proven a case 308 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 2: on circumstantial evidence alone. But you've got to have more. 309 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 2: You've got to have more than just well, she was 310 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 2: there whenever the babies would die. She never seemed tired. 311 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 2: She couldn't wait to get back to the ward and 312 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 2: work around more babies. That's not enough to prove a case, Greg, 313 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 2: But I think. 314 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 13: There's a I think there's a certain pattern in practice 315 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 13: that starts to emerge, and that is the question of 316 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 13: the lack of supervision. Apart from the criminal liability, I mean, 317 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 13: there's there's the civil issue. There's the lack of supervision, 318 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 13: and I mean perhaps even the concept of corporate manslaughter, 319 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 13: the failure to adequately participate in the controls that are 320 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 13: necessary to ensure that things are being done the right way. 321 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 2: You know all that is absolutely correct. I don't think 322 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: that's any consolation to these parents, one after the next 323 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 2: after the next, who suffered the loss of their child. 324 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 2: But Greg Algrin, of course, is completely correct. Robert Crispin 325 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 2: joining me, high profile private investigator, former Federal Task Force 326 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 2: officer for the US Department of Justice with the DEEA 327 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 2: and the Miami Field Division, former homicide and Crimes on 328 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 2: Children investigator, and you can find them at Crispininvestigations dot com. Robert, 329 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. If you were handed this, 330 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 2: let me just say, Rubik's cube, one baby after the 331 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 2: next is dying on this ward. Lucy let be, is 332 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: there every time one of these babies dies and you 333 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 2: hear about the baby screaming. They didn't just fall off 334 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 2: to sleep with too much bitadrill, which is bad enough 335 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 2: in itself. They were screaming. What would you do? You 336 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 2: got to have more than that. Now I find air 337 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 2: injected into a baby to be damning, but I know 338 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 2: I need more. What would you do to prove this case? Robert? 339 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 14: Well, shadly this case because of who we are dealing with, 340 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 14: because the access to the kids, and because we spoke 341 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 14: about it. Unfortunately, death very final. You're expected that it's 342 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 14: okay if someone dies in hostitle that's where they're supposed 343 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 14: to die. 344 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 2: Oh, you just gave me a thought. It reminds me 345 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 2: of arson cases, which it took me years to develop 346 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: an expertise improving arson, because first you have to prove 347 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 2: a crime even happened, and then once you prove a 348 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 2: crime happened, you got to figure out who did it 349 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 2: and really why. Like this, you expect babies in a 350 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 2: high risk neonatal unit, some of them, God help them, 351 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 2: are going to die. So a lot of people don't 352 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 2: think it's anything unusual when a baby dies in the 353 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 2: neonatal unit. 354 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 14: That's why she got away with it for so long. 355 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 14: For so long, she got away with it. By the 356 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 14: time it got to law enforcement is when this thing accelerated, 357 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 14: until the administrators got together and they started to compare 358 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 14: the facts and compare the charts and compare the employees 359 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 14: and the behavior. And then it went to law enforcement 360 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 14: after it was first not to go to law enforcement, 361 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 14: and the employees were told, if you do anything about it, 362 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 14: there will be reach percussion. 363 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 2: You're making my stomach hurt right now. Is this true? 364 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 2: Aleis to rest Chuck with US Crime online dot Com 365 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 2: investigative reporter that all these desks were flagged and employees 366 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 2: were begging for help, and they were told, don't you 367 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 2: dare say a word. Did that happen? 368 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 6: It did? It was not only it was the nurses 369 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 6: and the doctors who worked with her. They all first 370 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 6: time it was a tragedy. But immediately the way that 371 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 6: she reacted was a red flag. 372 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 2: She will how does she react? 373 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 6: Well, she wanted to come back to work immediately. She said, well, 374 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 6: you know, I just have to be there immediately. I 375 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 6: don't need any time to gree that's the best thing 376 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 6: to do. Well, while everybody else was devastated and crushed 377 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 6: by this and thought she was. But each time a 378 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 6: child died, each time a baby died, and she was there, 379 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 6: she wanted to come back to work and insisted on 380 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 6: and as you said, remember many of them were twins 381 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 6: or she wanted to work with the other sibling immediately, 382 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 6: and people and that really raised their red lights of 383 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 6: the doctors and the nurses really started a file and 384 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 6: tried and complained about her and said this is really 385 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 6: very very suspicious. 386 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 2: Okay, somebody is going to have their pants suit off. 387 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 14: To add insult to injury, they had to write her 388 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 14: an apology. 389 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 2: Whoa okay, what who's this is this Chrispin? 390 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 14: Or all great, that's Kristin. 391 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 2: What did you just say? 392 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 14: It had gotten to administration. Administration shut down the people 393 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 14: that were bringing this forward and we're not going to 394 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 14: do anything further and there'll be consequences. And then Lucy 395 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 14: filed a complaint and the doctors had to do a 396 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 14: written apology to Lucy. I'm sorry, we're all stressed out, 397 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 14: we're all under a lot of pressure. That's how this 398 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 14: all started. And then another death, that's when administrators caught on. 399 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 14: That's when they decided to call law enforcement. And then 400 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 14: that's when this case got some traction and it took off, 401 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 14: and it's where it is today. 402 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 9: And Nancy, I think, and this is kat I think. 403 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 9: Another most interesting fact about her behavior was she reached 404 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 9: out to these parents, multiple different parents of the deceased children, 405 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 9: and searched for them on social media and watched their 406 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 9: response to their grief and was almost relishing their grief, 407 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 9: and she sent them notes. She said she was apologetic 408 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 9: that she couldn't make it to the funerals. It's really 409 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 9: very distressing to look at someone with such narcissistic behavior 410 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,199 Speaker 9: and attention seeking behavior. It's just horrifying. 411 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 2: Oh man, oh man, she is going straight to hell. 412 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 2: Did you know that also after the deaths of these 413 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: tiny babies, she would help the parents prepare the baby for. 414 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 9: The few Yes, that did mention in the evidence that 415 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 9: she helped to prepare memento boxes and gather footprints and 416 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 9: handprints and locks of hair, which is a very common practice. 417 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 9: And I see you after a child passes away because 418 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 9: maybe a photograph prior to the death, and these mementos 419 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 9: are the only thing that these parents have to remember 420 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 9: the short life that they had with their child. 421 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 2: Who was jumping in was that you, Karen start, Yes. 422 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 13: It was. 423 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 7: I wanted to say that in addition to her own cases, 424 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 7: they would also find her involved in cases that were 425 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 7: not hers, where she was told not to be there, 426 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 7: and she would get involved with these supposedly babies that 427 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 7: were so sick and dying, which of. 428 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 2: Course she was causing, so she wasn't just her patience. 429 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 2: She would seek out other babies. 430 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 7: And she relished taking care of the babies once they died. 431 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 7: She dave them and found closed for them. She became very, 432 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 7: very involved in the aftercare as well. 433 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sure you've got a diagnostic name for that. 434 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 2: Jackie is waiving a note to me that one of 435 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 2: their babies was actually buried and a gown provided by 436 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 2: Lucy let Be. Guys, take a listen our friends at BBC. 437 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 3: Lucy let Be was eventually moved to a clerical role. 438 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 3: The doctors kept trying to get managers to investigate the 439 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 3: suspicious deaths and her connection to them, even though consultants 440 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 3: here repeatedly made loud warnings to senior management. They say 441 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 3: they were ignored. Even after Lucy let Be came off 442 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 3: duty on the neonatal unit, executives tried to draw a 443 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 3: line under the case. Dr Stephen Breery led the team 444 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 3: of seven consultants on the unit who shared joint concerns. 445 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 12: It's something that nobody really wants to consider that a 446 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 12: member of staff might be harming the babies and your. 447 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 3: Things came to a head when two out of three 448 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 3: healthy triplets died within twenty four hours of each other. 449 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 2: Oh cool, two out of three triplets. Karen Stark, you're 450 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 2: the shrink. We're just a mere mortals. What is There's 451 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 2: got to be a name for the hatred of babies, 452 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 2: the desire to kill infants. 453 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 7: Well, usually when that happens, it's stillicide. It's a parent 454 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 7: who's killing the baby. Unfortunately, in this case, you're talking 455 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 7: about a cold and I mean cold blooded killer, the 456 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 7: definition of a psychopath. She was sadistic. She enjoyed and 457 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 7: I know this is hard for people to take in, 458 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 7: but she actually enjoyed watching not just the baby suffer, 459 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 7: but the parents suffer. 460 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 2: Now, there's pedophobia, which is a fear of babies, but 461 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 2: the hatred of babies. They desire to kill babies, not 462 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 2: anybody else, just helpless infants. 463 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 7: But that's part of it, Nancy, is that they're helpless 464 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 7: and they're innocent, and that's extremely appealing to killers, as 465 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 7: we know, and all the natural instincts that you would 466 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 7: assume somebody would have when it comes to babies. A killer, 467 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 7: a cold blooded killer like this just the opposite. She's 468 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 7: in her environment. She relishes the fact that this is happening. 469 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 2: Guys, take us to our friends over at ap. 470 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 15: Lucie let Be was entrusted to protect some of the 471 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 15: most vulnerable babies little did those working alongside her know 472 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 15: that there was a murderer in their midst. She did 473 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 15: her utmost to conceal her crimes by varying the ways 474 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 15: in which she repeatedly harmed babies in her care in 475 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 15: her homes. In not cure substances like air milk or 476 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 15: medication like insulin would become lethal. She berhted her learning 477 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 15: and weaponized her craft to inflict harm, grief and death. 478 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greece. 479 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 2: Just thinking about this. In her hands, innocuous substances like air, 480 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 2: milk or medication would become lethal. Then there's Baby E. 481 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 2: The mom arrived to give the baby breast milk and 482 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 2: she found the baby with blood around his mouth before 483 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 2: he died from a fatal bleed which we now believed 484 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 2: be caused by let Be interfering with a naso gastric tube. 485 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 2: The mom actually walked in on her with the baby. Guys, 486 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 2: take a listen to this. 487 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 11: It was in June and when Lucy let Be murdered 488 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 11: the first newborn, who we can only call BABYA, by 489 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 11: injecting air into his bloodstream. The following month, after the 490 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 11: deaths of BABYC and Baby D, the head of the 491 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 11: Neoonotal Award ordered an internal review and found that let 492 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 11: Be had been the only nurse on shift for each death. 493 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 11: By October, baby and Baby I had also died, and 494 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 11: consultants warned senior management that let Be was present each time. 495 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 2: That was Sean Fletcher, Good Morning Britain. Baby Baby I 496 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: also died and senior management was warned Lucy let Be 497 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 2: was present each time. Greg Algrin, why in the world 498 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 2: when a hospital tried to suppress the knowledge that babies 499 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 2: were dying of Lucy let Be's watch, not by accident, 500 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,719 Speaker 2: not by normal or natural causes, but by injections of 501 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 2: air or insulin or interference with a naso gastral tube. 502 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 2: Why would they suppress that and actually warn the doctors 503 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 2: and nurses of repercussions if they continued to investigate and 504 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 2: force the doctors, as Robert Crispin pointed out, to apologize 505 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: to Lucy let Be the killer right. 506 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 13: It's disgusting, It's inconceivable, and I think we only conclude 507 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 13: that this institution was trying to protect itself. There's no 508 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 13: excuse for it, and there have to be other investigations 509 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 13: and hopefully prosecutions that come out of this because the 510 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 13: organizational manager those exhibited here is completely unexcusable. Inexcusable, I 511 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 13: mean it can be allowed to repeat itself in the future. 512 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: Take a listen now to Janet more to. 513 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 16: Lose a baby as a hall breaking experience, but no 514 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 16: pair and should ever have to go through or to 515 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 16: lose a baby, or to have a baby harmed and 516 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 16: these particular circumstances is unimaginable. Over the past seven to 517 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 16: eight years, we've had to go through a long, tortuous 518 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 16: and emotional journey from losing our precious newborns and grieving 519 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 16: their loss, seeing our children who survived, some of whom 520 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 16: are still suffering today, to being told years later that 521 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 16: their death all collapse might be suspicious. Nothing could prepare 522 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 16: you for that news. 523 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 2: I'm just trying to get my head around it. To 524 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 2: you or like sis Tereschak and joining us from crime online. 525 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 2: The murderers of all these babies occurred over the space 526 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 2: of one year. Why did it take eight years to 527 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,280 Speaker 2: bring her to justice? 528 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 6: Concern raised by doctors and nurses, and they had the 529 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 6: hospital started an investigation into it, and because she was 530 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 6: so forthcoming, she was a nurse, they just never suspected 531 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 6: that this would happen. Nothing found. However, when they decided 532 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 6: that they did, they did a survey. They did and 533 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 6: they saw that she was the only nurse on duty 534 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 6: in the room with these children for every single death 535 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,280 Speaker 6: and every single attempted you know where there were children 536 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 6: that were assaulted by her that did not die, but 537 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 6: that were treated in the same way. And then they 538 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 6: realized that something happened. She then filed a complaint against 539 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 6: the hospital and said, you are targeting me. I am 540 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 6: not doing anything wrong. And because it appears that they 541 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 6: were afraid to be they were afraid that she would 542 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 6: sue them more than just file a complaint, they backed 543 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 6: down on this and it took years for them to 544 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 6: finally contact the police, and many of the doctors there 545 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 6: have said that the hospital dragged their feet on this 546 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 6: and that they should have contacted the police immediately. 547 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 2: I guess I didn't want the bad public relations that 548 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 2: so many babies were dying Number one and partially the 549 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 2: hands of a nurse. Listen to Justice, James. 550 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 17: This was a cruel, calculated, and cynical campaign of child 551 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 17: murder involving the smallest and most vulnerable of children. Knowing 552 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:18,800 Speaker 17: that your actions were causing significant physical suffering and would 553 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 17: cause untold mental suffering. You created situations so that collapses 554 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 17: or causes of collapses would not be obvious or associated 555 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 17: with you. You removed and retained confidential records of events 556 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 17: relating to your crimes, and checked up on bereaved parents. 557 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 17: There was a deep malevolence bordering on sadism in your. 558 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 2: Actions, Karen Start, I can't figure out if she delighted 559 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 2: more in actually killing the babies or watching them die 560 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,479 Speaker 2: the act of killing them, standing by watching them die, 561 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 2: or watching the parents grieve and actually enjoying the funeral preparations. 562 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 2: It's I can't figure out what her motivation is. 563 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 7: There doesn't need to be that. Everyone's trying to understand 564 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 7: her motivation. And when we're talking about a psychopath, this 565 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 7: is a person who has no feelings and the only 566 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 7: motivation is for her to be able to see there 567 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 7: distress that really turns her on. It's hard to conceive it, 568 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 7: but it's true. And she had no price. Look how 569 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 7: manipulative she was, which really goes along with being a psychopath. 570 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 7: And she turned the tables and she said, you're harassing me, 571 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 7: so that she could take the attention away from she's 572 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 7: doing something wrong and put the attention on the fact 573 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 7: that she's a victim. 574 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 2: Kat Thornton joining US Neo natal Nursing expert. What precautions 575 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 2: are in place and how spittles to make sure nurses 576 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 2: are not killing infants, infants that of course have no 577 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 2: voice for themselves. 578 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 9: Well, Nancy, I think this is an excellent example of 579 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:17,800 Speaker 9: a situation where the surrounding support staff did not feel 580 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 9: comfortable and they were also chastised. 581 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,359 Speaker 6: About bringing forth concerns. 582 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 9: And I will say that I think most institutions do 583 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 9: an excellent job of providing ongoing annual training. The compliance 584 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 9: departments and regulatory departments develop really good education and affirmation 585 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 9: to each employee at annual training. 586 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 2: That is their responsibility, so continue training, Alexis Tereschuk joining US. 587 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 2: So many of these parents probably thought that the potential 588 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 2: deaths of their children were to be expected, and when 589 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 2: a child passed away in the neonatal unit, they thought, well, 590 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 2: she just didn't make it. What happened at sentencing is 591 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 2: it shoe Lucy let Bey would not even come to 592 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 2: sentencing where the parents were all there. 593 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 6: That's one hundred percent true. She did not show up 594 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 6: for her sentencing. She was not there when these parents 595 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 6: gave their victim impact statements where they talked about how 596 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 6: they completely trusted her and that they knew something was 597 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 6: wrong because their child was screaming in the unit, and 598 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 6: that they went in and the parents and it was 599 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 6: there and she was the only one there. She was 600 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 6: too much of a coward. She did not show up 601 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 6: and her parents. She is an only child who was 602 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 6: doated on her whole life. She was everything to her parents. 603 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 6: When she graduated from college. They sent a picture of 604 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 6: it to the local newspaper. They adored her, They gave 605 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 6: her everything. They were so proud of her. They had 606 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,879 Speaker 6: been there every single day at the trial, but they 607 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 6: also did not show up for the sentencing, so nobody 608 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,479 Speaker 6: was there to hear what these parents had to say 609 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 6: after she had murdered their baby. 610 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 2: So chilling that after one baby died, photos have emerged 611 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 2: of Lucy Letbe with this huge smile on her face 612 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 2: at a fundraiser. The baby had just died and she 613 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 2: went to a fundraiser for neo natal patients and had 614 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 2: this huge smile. She really had a great time at 615 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 2: the party after just killing one of the babies, seven 616 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 2: babies dead at her hands that we know of, attempts 617 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 2: on the life of six other tiny infants. She is 618 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 2: going to jail for the rest of her life. But 619 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 2: all I can say is rot in hell. Goodbye friend.