1
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:16,480
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A young mom and her

2
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:21,799
Speaker 1: two year old baby girl both missing. Now that's very rare.

3
00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,120
Speaker 1: You may hear of a child missing or a mom missing,

4
00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,480
Speaker 1: a guy missing, a single individual, but for both of

5
00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:36,839
Speaker 1: them to be missing very unusual. Where is Jill and

6
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,920
Speaker 1: where is two year old Lydia? I'm Nancy Grace. This

7
00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,160
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here

8
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,920
Speaker 1: at Fox Nation and series XM one eleven. First of all,

9
00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,680
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at wgm E. Sanford

10
00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,839
Speaker 1: police say they're looking for help finding a family that

11
00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 1: it believes to be missing. They were lasting in the

12
00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,440
Speaker 1: Rumford area Wednesday, June twenty nine and a silver two

13
00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,520
Speaker 1: thousand and five VW Jetta. Their play number on the

14
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,120
Speaker 1: screen rate here. Police say they could possibly be in

15
00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,959
Speaker 1: the Phillips area camping, but they were due back in

16
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,120
Speaker 1: the area Thursday. Friends and families say they have not

17
00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,320
Speaker 1: heard from them. If you information have information, police are

18
00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,959
Speaker 1: asking you, they give them a call. We all go

19
00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,440
Speaker 1: on camping trips, or at least I do. I love

20
00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,760
Speaker 1: taking the twins. We either go camping in a tent,

21
00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:27,080
Speaker 1: we go in an RV. They're avid scouts that sleep

22
00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,360
Speaker 1: under the stars. My son even camps out and a

23
00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,399
Speaker 1: hammock with a little covering over the top of it.

24
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,640
Speaker 1: The thought of being out in the woods and then

25
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:43,200
Speaker 1: suddenly disappearing almost seems like it's out a horror movie again.

26
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,199
Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us here at Fox Stations Series

27
00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,320
Speaker 1: six one eleven. We've got an all star panel to

28
00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,920
Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now. Joining me

29
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,920
Speaker 1: James shell Nutt, twenty seven years Metro major case now

30
00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:59,640
Speaker 1: lawyer at shell Nutt Law Firm. Doctor Jeff Gardere, longtime colleague.

31
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,880
Speaker 1: We're now on psychologists joining us, Professor Behavioral Medicine Turo College.

32
00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,240
Speaker 1: And Greg Smith, special Deputy Sheriff joining us out of

33
00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,200
Speaker 1: the Johnson County Sheriffs and he is the executive director

34
00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,240
Speaker 1: of the Kelsey Smith Foundation. But first to Alexis Torschut,

35
00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:23,040
Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. Alexis, tell me first

36
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,919
Speaker 1: of all about where this mom and daughter live and

37
00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,440
Speaker 1: where they were going camping, because she gets from Sanford, Connecticut.

38
00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,840
Speaker 1: She was going camping in Shillips, which is about two

39
00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,480
Speaker 1: hours away, So a bit of a drive to go

40
00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,560
Speaker 1: camping two and a half hours away. You know, I'm curious.

41
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,639
Speaker 1: Greg Smith joining me, Special Deputy Sheriff and director of

42
00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:52,120
Speaker 1: the Kelsey Smith Foundation. Greg, when you take a child anywhere,

43
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot of accoutrement. I remember when the children

44
00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,000
Speaker 1: were little and we would just pack them up to

45
00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,519
Speaker 1: go visit my parents two hours away. The entire back

46
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:12,680
Speaker 1: of the minivan would be full. You've got sleeping stuff, bottles, formula,

47
00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:18,640
Speaker 1: bottel heaters, bottle cleaners, I mean everything. To take a

48
00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:23,720
Speaker 1: two year old camping, now, let's just say that's courageous. Right. Well, yeah,

49
00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,200
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a lot of stuff. I mean I

50
00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 1: can I can speak from experience. Just a couple of

51
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,160
Speaker 1: weekends ago, I took four of my grandchildren camping in

52
00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,000
Speaker 1: our camper. The youngest one was three, and it's a

53
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,280
Speaker 1: twenty two foot camper and it was stuff full of

54
00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,840
Speaker 1: all kinds of things. So, yeah, you're gonna have a

55
00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,040
Speaker 1: whole lot of stuff. And the reason I'm asking that is,

56
00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:47,600
Speaker 1: I mean maybe in the past, Jeff Gardier, you've got

57
00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:54,800
Speaker 1: six children. Okay, that's a handful. Jeff Gardier on when

58
00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,840
Speaker 1: you go camping to start with, you know, you've got

59
00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,880
Speaker 1: to be ready for every contingency. But before you have children,

60
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,720
Speaker 1: I mean you knew me before I had the twins.

61
00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:07,960
Speaker 1: If I got an offer to go on a diving

62
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,960
Speaker 1: trip halfway around the world, I'm gone that weekend. Buy.

63
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,560
Speaker 1: But when you have children, it's a whole another ball game.

64
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,839
Speaker 1: The planning. It takes a lot to take a kid anywhere,

65
00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,240
Speaker 1: much less camping, right, Absolutely, and there has to be

66
00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,920
Speaker 1: full responsibility. You have to train the children, you have

67
00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,279
Speaker 1: to have a plan in place, you have to have contingencies,

68
00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,159
Speaker 1: and certainly you have to know each and every person

69
00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,880
Speaker 1: coming in and out of contact with you or wherever

70
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,719
Speaker 1: you may be on that camping trip. You know where

71
00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,200
Speaker 1: I'm going with this, James Shelnup. You leave a trail

72
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,280
Speaker 1: when you've got a child with you. You're going to

73
00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,920
Speaker 1: leave a trail if you're a responsible parent. And she,

74
00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:54,800
Speaker 1: by all accounts very very loving mom, very responsible. She's

75
00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,400
Speaker 1: got another child that's ten years old. All about her children.

76
00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:04,400
Speaker 1: So when you he disappear with a child, you leave

77
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,919
Speaker 1: a trail. You have to stop at a gas station,

78
00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,159
Speaker 1: you have to run into the Mini mark, You've got

79
00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,720
Speaker 1: to drive through a McDonald's and get a happy meal.

80
00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,479
Speaker 1: I mean something. There's gotta be a trail. That's what

81
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,200
Speaker 1: I'm getting at James Shell not for Pete's sake, twenty

82
00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 1: seven years on Metro major case from or Swat and

83
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,159
Speaker 1: James helped me out here. Why can't we find this woman?

84
00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,800
Speaker 1: I think they can't find this woman because I believe

85
00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 1: that she is involuntarily missing right now. That's why I

86
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,000
Speaker 1: believe they can't find her. You're right, We've got five kids,

87
00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 1: all of them at some point we're two years old.

88
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,520
Speaker 1: When you go camping with a two year old, that's

89
00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,160
Speaker 1: a pretty brave experience. They need clothes, they need possibly

90
00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,080
Speaker 1: diapers if they're not potty trained, and at some point

91
00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,320
Speaker 1: you run out of supplies and you can need to

92
00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,080
Speaker 1: go restock. You need to wash those clothes, you need

93
00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,200
Speaker 1: to go get more food. You know, this is something

94
00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,039
Speaker 1: where there should be a trail of them popping back

95
00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:04,880
Speaker 1: up on the radar some where somewhere. Alexa's Tureschuk Crime

96
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,720
Speaker 1: Online dot Com investigative reporter. I think you will recall

97
00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,080
Speaker 1: the case and maybe you doctor Jeff Gardier. We covered

98
00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:17,600
Speaker 1: of Catherine Hoggle, she had her children and okay, they've

99
00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,400
Speaker 1: disappeared and they've never been seen since. My point is

100
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,200
Speaker 1: they were spotted on video at a Chick fil A.

101
00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,799
Speaker 1: That's exactly what shell Nutt is saying. You've got to stop,

102
00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,599
Speaker 1: You've gotta a restock. So you just can't go on

103
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,120
Speaker 1: a trip with a child and not stop for a

104
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,880
Speaker 1: potty break at the very least. I mean, we can't

105
00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,839
Speaker 1: get fifteen minutes before my son wants a milkshake. So

106
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,960
Speaker 1: that's the way that unfolds. That's why I find this

107
00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:50,960
Speaker 1: so unusual. They go to it's Philip's Main the White

108
00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:56,640
Speaker 1: Mountain National Forest. They're leaving from Sanford. It's about a

109
00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,360
Speaker 1: two and a half hour drive, and there's no occasion

110
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,000
Speaker 1: of them stopping the whole way. Now two and a

111
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,719
Speaker 1: half hours, I can imagine making it that far, but

112
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,120
Speaker 1: at some point you're gonna leave a trail check list

113
00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:14,280
Speaker 1: and our friends at wc SH. I'm not sure if

114
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,320
Speaker 1: maybe like we misunderstood something when she said she'd be

115
00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,240
Speaker 1: back at that time, but I don't. I don't think

116
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,040
Speaker 1: that she would shoot pull this. Rita Lyman is the

117
00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,920
Speaker 1: oldest of three siblings. Her youngest sister, Jill sideboff Him

118
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,680
Speaker 1: from Sanford, is missing. Rita says her family hasn't spoken

119
00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,440
Speaker 1: to her in seven days, and I'm supposed to be

120
00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,040
Speaker 1: the oldest. You know, I'm supposed to be the one

121
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:45,400
Speaker 1: that's that looks out for them, and I can't. I don't,

122
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,040
Speaker 1: I don't know where to go. Can we talk one

123
00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:54,200
Speaker 1: moment about behavioral evidence. It's called routine evidence. It's not

124
00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:59,280
Speaker 1: routine or ordinary. It's evidence of your daily routine. Because

125
00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,920
Speaker 1: you know grey Smith's special deputy share of Johnson County, Greg,

126
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,160
Speaker 1: Let's talk about your daughter, Kelsey. For Kelsey, when she

127
00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,800
Speaker 1: went to the I think it was a Target. When

128
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,480
Speaker 1: she went to buy a gift at Target, she was

129
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,960
Speaker 1: on the phone with your wife, her mother, trying to

130
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,160
Speaker 1: pick out the gift. They were in constant contact. I'm

131
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,720
Speaker 1: in constant contact with my twins, and when you suddenly

132
00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:35,680
Speaker 1: break that chain, it's unusual. My husband travels a lot,

133
00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,800
Speaker 1: he works really hard. His day is bam bam, bam,

134
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,880
Speaker 1: bam bam, and I don't expect to talk on the

135
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,800
Speaker 1: phone and have a big, long conversation. But if we

136
00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:49,880
Speaker 1: went a whole let's just say day without texting, I

137
00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:56,840
Speaker 1: would think something was really wrong. That's what routine evidence is.

138
00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:02,200
Speaker 1: Behavioral evidence. And hear you hear her sister in anguish

139
00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 1: because she knows something is really wrong. She hasn't heard

140
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,120
Speaker 1: from her sister. Yeah, I mean, those those patterns of

141
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,520
Speaker 1: life are extremely important in a case like this when

142
00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,640
Speaker 1: you expect contact and you're not getting it. I mean,

143
00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,480
Speaker 1: that was really the key thing that started the whole

144
00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,200
Speaker 1: search for Kelsey is she was such a responsible person

145
00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,080
Speaker 1: and always kept in touch with us, and if she

146
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:24,880
Speaker 1: was going to be late, she let us know, and

147
00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 1: none of that happened. So you've got a similar situation here.

148
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, those are indicators for that family that hey,

149
00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:35,720
Speaker 1: something something's gone wrong here, you know, and is it serious?

150
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,280
Speaker 1: You know, we hope not. But they're overdue, if by

151
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,800
Speaker 1: quite a bit of time now, so it would definitely

152
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:58,280
Speaker 1: be something I'd be worried about. Time stories with me.

153
00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:04,840
Speaker 1: It's a grace to doctor Jeff Gardier, renowned psychologist, professor

154
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:10,560
Speaker 1: behavioral medicine, and author of the Causes of Autism. Doctor

155
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:16,520
Speaker 1: Jeff Hugh and I covered the Nicole Brown murder, the

156
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:21,120
Speaker 1: Ron Godman murders at the hands of Simpson, and many

157
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,760
Speaker 1: people started that timeline with the sound of their dog,

158
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:31,280
Speaker 1: Nicole's dog wailing in the background, and that was good

159
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,559
Speaker 1: enough for the prosecutors. And I agree with them because

160
00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,440
Speaker 1: the neighbors had never heard that before. I think that

161
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,720
Speaker 1: in this case, when the family says this has never

162
00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,960
Speaker 1: happened before, that that should not be discounted and that

163
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,320
Speaker 1: should be the beginning of the timeline. Absolutely, And as

164
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,960
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this, I'm also wondering when was

165
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:58,360
Speaker 1: the absolute last time they had heard from Jill while

166
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,720
Speaker 1: she was on that trip. Did she call to say

167
00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:07,440
Speaker 1: we arrived wherever we were supposed to go that you know,

168
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,640
Speaker 1: Lydia is doing okay, you know this is what's happening here,

169
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,400
Speaker 1: because the family was concerned about her leaving. So yes, absolutely,

170
00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,720
Speaker 1: we have to pay a lot of attention to something

171
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:27,040
Speaker 1: that is different from her usual psychological functioning, sociological functioning,

172
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,559
Speaker 1: or at least send picks because you've got your two

173
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,040
Speaker 1: year old girl with you and as she's doing all

174
00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,959
Speaker 1: sorts of cute things, I would believe that the mom

175
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,640
Speaker 1: would be taking picks and sending them, texting them. And

176
00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,360
Speaker 1: then we get a break in the case. Take listen

177
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,599
Speaker 1: to our seven our friends at WABI. The search for

178
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,040
Speaker 1: a missing Sandford family continues after authorities say they were

179
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 1: spotted over the weekend. The Sandford Police Department has been

180
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,240
Speaker 1: searching for Jill Sidebottom, Nicholas Hanson, and their two year

181
00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,640
Speaker 1: old Lydia Hanson since late June. Authorities say the family,

182
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,800
Speaker 1: who was going camping in the Phillips area, was lasting

183
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,439
Speaker 1: by additional family on June twenty seventh. Authorities say they

184
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 1: have not been heard from since. Officials say the family

185
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,640
Speaker 1: was spotted in a state on Saturday evening at a

186
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,360
Speaker 1: Walmart in Mexico. Sanford Officials say they are still working

187
00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,280
Speaker 1: through tips and sightings and ask for the public's help

188
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:24,480
Speaker 1: locating them. So they're actually spotted at a Walmart in Mexico, Maine.

189
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,720
Speaker 1: Let's take a look at what that means. Number one,

190
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,920
Speaker 1: we know they're still alive. July two. Okay, so we've

191
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:38,520
Speaker 1: had June twenty seven, eight, twenty nine, thirty. Now we're

192
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,320
Speaker 1: on July two. They're alive. Then they've made it that far.

193
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,400
Speaker 1: They're at a Walmart. You know what's interesting. It even

194
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:52,240
Speaker 1: matters what they were buying. It matters if they're restocking

195
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,880
Speaker 1: for more camping, or if they're getting snacks and gas

196
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 1: to hit the road and go back home. All of

197
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,520
Speaker 1: that matters. What about it, shall night, I agree with

198
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,240
Speaker 1: you one hundred percent. Matter of fact, that's one of

199
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:03,720
Speaker 1: the things that came to buy when us making some

200
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,640
Speaker 1: notes on this this morning, is that it would be

201
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,160
Speaker 1: nice to know, you know, did they buy those diapers?

202
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,880
Speaker 1: Did they buy additional two to continue this camping trip,

203
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,160
Speaker 1: because if they didn't, then that's even more concerning. You know,

204
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:20,520
Speaker 1: let's talk about Phillip's Main The population at the time

205
00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:25,160
Speaker 1: right now is only eight hundred and ninety eight people.

206
00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,240
Speaker 1: Eight hundred and ninety eight people. Now, this is in

207
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,800
Speaker 1: the White Mountain National Forest. Alexis Terreschuk joining US Crime

208
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,320
Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter alexis, what can you tell

209
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:43,520
Speaker 1: me about the White Mountain National Forest? How big is it?

210
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,200
Speaker 1: And the reason I ask we have just come off

211
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:52,960
Speaker 1: the Gabby Potito Brian laundry case. They were camping to

212
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,360
Speaker 1: start with, and dispersed camping, which means you're not near

213
00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,120
Speaker 1: an electrical hookup, a water hookup. You're really out in

214
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,800
Speaker 1: the middle of the wild with the wild animals. You've

215
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,560
Speaker 1: got to be a really good camper to do something

216
00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,120
Speaker 1: like that. And then we dealt with the Carlton Reserve.

217
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:14,000
Speaker 1: The Carlton Reserve in Florida twenty five thousand acres of

218
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,680
Speaker 1: national Natural forests and swamp land, and that is where

219
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:23,360
Speaker 1: laundry hold up and we think shot himself out of guilt,

220
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:30,440
Speaker 1: I'm murdering Gabby Petito. The terrain and all the facts

221
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,160
Speaker 1: surrounding that reserve, as well as where they were camping,

222
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,360
Speaker 1: became big factors in the search and the possibilities as

223
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,080
Speaker 1: to what happened. So now we're talking about the White

224
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,640
Speaker 1: Mountain National Forest. What do we know about that? Alexis, Well,

225
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 1: here's something I think that's really important. The White Mountain

226
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,760
Speaker 1: National Forest has a rule that you may not stay

227
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,200
Speaker 1: overnight in your car. So the thing is they were seeing,

228
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,440
Speaker 1: you know, in the car. There was silar car that

229
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,280
Speaker 1: they put out, you know, an alert if you see

230
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,560
Speaker 1: this car, but you cannot stay in your car and

231
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,320
Speaker 1: this park. So if their car was somewhere in this

232
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,080
Speaker 1: park overnight, and since they've been gone for somebody today,

233
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,640
Speaker 1: somebody would have noticed it. Wait a minute. It says

234
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,520
Speaker 1: you can't stay in your car, But can you park

235
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 1: your car and go and stay in the tent. Yes,

236
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,480
Speaker 1: but you can't stay in the park. So that could

237
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,440
Speaker 1: be one thing that would be something right, Well wait, wait, wait, wait,

238
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,320
Speaker 1: you're saying you can't stay overnight camping in the park.

239
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 1: You can't drive your car and like sleep in your car.

240
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 1: You have to have a tent. There was no mention.

241
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,440
Speaker 1: Nobody ever said, you know, they packed up their camping

242
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,240
Speaker 1: gear or anything like that. They just drove away in

243
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 1: a car. Okay, this place is huge. It's seven hundred

244
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:46,080
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand, eight hundred and fifty two acres. It's

245
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,440
Speaker 1: wildly popular, and we know that they are very tall

246
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,160
Speaker 1: mountain peaks there. Now, do I think they took the

247
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,800
Speaker 1: baby up a mountain peak? No, I'm just curious if

248
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,200
Speaker 1: we can figure out, Greg Smith, did they ever actually

249
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,680
Speaker 1: go camping? Let me just put this in your mind. Everybody,

250
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,040
Speaker 1: we all remember the story and we're waiting on the

251
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:13,480
Speaker 1: trial of Cultmam Laurie Valo. Remember that last faithful photo

252
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,120
Speaker 1: of them at Yellowstone. Now, they were just apparently going

253
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:23,400
Speaker 1: for a day trip, but I would expect there to

254
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 1: be some indication of what their plan was that changes

255
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,720
Speaker 1: the whole search. Were they camping, Was it a day trip?

256
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,520
Speaker 1: Were they staying in a nearby a hotel or a

257
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,800
Speaker 1: motel and just going there during the day. We have

258
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,800
Speaker 1: no indication they actually ever went camping, or do we

259
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,280
Speaker 1: Alexis rus Chuck, No, we don't. We don't have any

260
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,680
Speaker 1: proof about at all. None. And she haven't spoken to

261
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:51,080
Speaker 1: her family in days. So she left on the twenty seventh.

262
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,880
Speaker 1: The last time they heard from her was the twenty

263
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,440
Speaker 1: eighth of June, just the very next day. So Betty,

264
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,240
Speaker 1: she forgot her phone charger or a car charger wasn't working.

265
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 1: But they were in a Walmart. They could have bought

266
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,040
Speaker 1: a new phone charger. They could have sat down. I

267
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,119
Speaker 1: think Walmart will let you do Walmart anything. You can

268
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,080
Speaker 1: sit down and plug in your phone. But nothing, no

269
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,159
Speaker 1: communication whatsoever. That's where her sister is saying, maybe I

270
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,879
Speaker 1: misunderstood what she said, but I talked to her and

271
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,399
Speaker 1: then she's just done, and so they have no communication

272
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,040
Speaker 1: and no way to even paying the phone. It's interesting

273
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:30,439
Speaker 1: on that count. To doctor Jeff Gardier, if I suggest

274
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:35,359
Speaker 1: the twins ago anywhere without their phones, it's like all

275
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 1: hell broke loose. This woman's phone has been turned off

276
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,600
Speaker 1: since June twenty eight. Now they were spotted at that

277
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:51,920
Speaker 1: Walmart in Mexico, Maine. And again, Alexis, how far we

278
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,360
Speaker 1: know she comes from Sandford two and a half hours

279
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,400
Speaker 1: to Phillips, Maine, the White Mountain National Forest. Then they're

280
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:03,160
Speaker 1: spotted day or too later at this walmart and Mexico, Maine.

281
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 1: How far is Mexico, Maine from Phillips, Maine where they

282
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:12,159
Speaker 1: were camping. It's about thirty miles north Okay. And I

283
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,639
Speaker 1: have confirmed doctor Jeff Garder that they were buying food,

284
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,040
Speaker 1: although I don't know what kind of food. If it's

285
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,040
Speaker 1: food to cook over a camp fire versus snacks to

286
00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 1: go back home, we don't know the answer to that.

287
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,800
Speaker 1: But what do you make it for? Phoneming cut off?

288
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,720
Speaker 1: Isn't that odd to you? That's very alarming and so interesting.

289
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,480
Speaker 1: You should say that I'm scheduling patients this morning to

290
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 1: be seen, and one of those people her phone just

291
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,399
Speaker 1: stops working. Now, of course, I'm not considering any solid play,

292
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,520
Speaker 1: but it's concerning to me because the person knows that

293
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 1: they have a therapy session. They have not reached out

294
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,639
Speaker 1: to me. They haven't said anything, so I'm thinking maybe

295
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,240
Speaker 1: their phone is cut off, but it may mean that

296
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 1: they may not have the money. Again, I'm not concerned

297
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,959
Speaker 1: about foul play. I'm concerned so in this particular situation

298
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,120
Speaker 1: with what we're talking about, with Jill and the rest

299
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 1: of the family. For her phone to be cut off

300
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 1: in that way on a trip with her daughters, no

301
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,879
Speaker 1: one is communicating and now you add on that the

302
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 1: phone is cut off to me is very very concerning.

303
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 1: And one last thing, Nancy, I would also be very

304
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,320
Speaker 1: interested as to what they look like physically when they

305
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,439
Speaker 1: were spotted and what kind of behavior they were exhibiting.

306
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 1: Oh good thought, has anybody thought that there's not a

307
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:39,159
Speaker 1: signal up in White Mountain National Forest? Has that dawned

308
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,159
Speaker 1: on anybody that maybe that's why you can't get in

309
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 1: touch with them, which could indicate that's where they had

310
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,600
Speaker 1: gone missing or met with foul play, or was the

311
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,200
Speaker 1: phone intentionally cut off? Take a listen now to our

312
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 1: friend mal Meyer at WGNA. The Sandford Police have been

313
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 1: looking far and wide for this family, which includes a

314
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,640
Speaker 1: two year old child. Authorities now say that the family

315
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 1: was spotted buying food at a Walmart on Friday. Where

316
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 1: they went after that is still unknown. Police are trying

317
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 1: to find Jill Sidebotham, two year old Lydia Hanson, and

318
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 1: Nicholas Hanson. The group was last known to be headed

319
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 1: to the Phillips area for camping, which is about two

320
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: and a half hours north of Sandford. They were due

321
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 1: back in southern Maine last Thursday, but police say family

322
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 1: members grew worried after not hearing from them, which is

323
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 1: how law enforcement got involved. After a few days without

324
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,719
Speaker 1: any confirmed sightings, the group was last seen on surveillance

325
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:45,639
Speaker 1: video at an undisclosed Walmart. Now, let's throw a wrench

326
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 1: in the works. Take a listen to our friends at

327
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 1: crime online dot com rkat to. This is Dave Mack.

328
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 1: Corey Alexander says he and Jill sidebotham have been in

329
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 1: a relationship for three years and are engaged to be married.

330
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 1: Alexander said, as Jill's devoted mom, she was supposed to

331
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: see her son on June thirtieth, the day she was

332
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 1: due back from her camping trip with her x. Her

333
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 1: son was planning to stay for the weekend. Jill's father,

334
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 1: Ron says, Jill worships her son and it's not like

335
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 1: her to not show up, especially without mentioning anything to anyone.

336
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 1: Corey Alexander says, we had planned for the weekend. We

337
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 1: were going to do stuff with the kids for the

338
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 1: fourth July and we were just going to have a

339
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: nice long weekend together, and then Friday came around and

340
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 1: I realized she wasn't answering me. I knew something was wrong.

341
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,640
Speaker 1: Something in my gut was just telling me that this

342
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 1: isn't right. He said. He's never before known Sidebotham not

343
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: to respond to a text or a voicemail. When Jill

344
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 1: and Lydia did not return from camping on June thirtieth,

345
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 1: the family grew concerned. On July second, two days after

346
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 1: they were expected home, Sidebotham's family reported them missing to

347
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 1: the Sanford Police. Okay, let me understand something. So twenty

348
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: eight year old Jill is engaged to be married to

349
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,199
Speaker 1: Corey Alexander. They've got a wedding date, everything's set, but

350
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 1: she goes camping with her ex and their daughter. She

351
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:14,400
Speaker 1: has baby Lydia with the ex, right, Nicholas Hanson, So

352
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 1: she and the bio dad take their daughter camping. Do

353
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: I have that right, Alexis Treschuk, Yes, you do. Nicholas

354
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 1: Hansen is her ex and he is the father of

355
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: her daughter, Lydia, so he came over to the house.

356
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 1: She actually Lydia. I'm sorry, not Lydia. Jill. Well, Jill

357
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: and Lydia live with Jill's parents, and Nicholas came over

358
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 1: to the house and said, let's go camping together, and

359
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: she agreed to go with him. Okay, to take the baby.

360
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: Okay too, Doctor Jeff Gardier, I'm all about co parenting

361
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: and this is their bio child, baby Lydia. They have together, fine,

362
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,199
Speaker 1: But what do you make of it? Well, you know

363
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 1: she is engaged to Corey Alexander, but yet she goes

364
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: on a camping trip with Nicholas Hans and her supposed

365
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 1: x So to me, that is very disturbing as to

366
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 1: why there is that sort of situation going on. Number

367
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: one and number two her ten year old son. I mean, this,

368
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: from what we know, is a devoted mother to her

369
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: two year old. I don't see any reason why she

370
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,959
Speaker 1: wouldn't be just as devoted to the child who's been

371
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: around even longer, her ten year old son. And so

372
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: she hasn't reached out to them, from what we know,

373
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 1: reached out to that boy. So all of that just

374
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: makes it just a very very disconcerting situation and tells

375
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: me and I'm just guessing here, but I think everyone

376
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: agrees that there there is something going on, and it

377
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 1: is not good. Take a listen our nine from our

378
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: friends at w g NA. At this point, it's not

379
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 1: considered necessarily suspicious. It's just unusual. It's unusual and yeah,

380
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: and it's just you know, concerning for the family, and

381
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: if they're concerned, then we want to pay attention to that.

382
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: Also adding to this that a child is involved. But

383
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: at this point authorities still have no reason to believe

384
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: foul play is involved or that this is a criminal matter.

385
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: There's a lot of unknowns, including if the group is

386
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: intentionally or unintentionally avoiding contact. Greg Smith, you're the special

387
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: Deputy sheriff. Why does law enforcement always say that they

388
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: don't expect foul play? The woman has crapped out on

389
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: her son, her fiance, her family. If she's doing this

390
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: on purpose, and I don't believe that she is, why

391
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: do they always say we don't suspect foul play. Everybody

392
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 1: knows she's in constant touch with her family. Law enforcement

393
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,239
Speaker 1: is limited, Nancy, because of the environment today. All they

394
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: can go on is what they see. Apparently from that video,

395
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: it looked like nobody was under duress in the store,

396
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: went in, they bought food. According to the stories that

397
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 1: we have. Yes, it's unusual that there hasn't been any

398
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: cell phone contact, there haven't been any texts, those types

399
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: of things, But they can't definitively say that there's been

400
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: some kind of foul play. And in today's society where

401
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: everybody sues everybody for saying anything, law enforcement has become

402
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 1: somewhat cautious in what they're going to put out there policy.

403
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: See this is James jump in, say, look, at what

404
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 1: point do you become concerned? Listen, let's size this up

405
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: for just a second. This lady and her two year

406
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: old daughter went camping with an X who Jill had

407
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: a toxic relationship with. They have not been seen or

408
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: heard of in ten days. She has a ten year

409
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: old son at home wondering where his mother is at.

410
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: Is completely out of character for her to not contact

411
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: this family. At what point does a Stanford police department

412
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: get concerned? To me? This is outrageous that they have

413
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 1: not taken a more aggressive approach and saying, hey, we

414
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 1: are worried about this lady. We hope she turns up

415
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: safe tomorrow, but for right now, there's absolutely calls for concern.

416
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: Let me go to doctor Jeff Guarder jumping off of

417
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: what shell Nutt and Smith just said. Doctor Jeff Garder

418
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: not just a renowned clinical psychologist and professor, also author

419
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: of I believe one of your books is called Love Prescription.

420
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: Remember that because I haven't forgotten it. What hold does

421
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: certain guys have over certain women and vice versa? Okay,

422
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: wait before you answer that, take a listen to our

423
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: cut one. This is Dave matt our friend at crime

424
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: online dot com. Joll's father, Ron says, I'm June twenty seven,

425
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: Nicholas Hanson showed up unexpectedly at their house and asked

426
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 1: Jill to go on a camping trip with him and

427
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: to bring lydia. Jill's mother urged her not to go,

428
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: but Jill said it would be fine. Jill's father, Ron

429
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: says he was concerned as soon as he heard about

430
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: them from two camping trips, saying he doesn't trust Nicholas Hanson,

431
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: claiming there have been issues. They went camping in Phillips,

432
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: about two and a half hours north of Stanford, and

433
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: we're expected to return home on June thirtieth. Jill Sidebotham's

434
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: phone stopped working on June twenty eighth, and Hanson's on

435
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: June twenty ninth. They did not return on June thirtieth. Okay,

436
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: doctor Jeff Gardier. Can you imagine if an old boyfriend

437
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: showed up on my steps and said, hey, let's go camping,

438
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: but get the hay gone. There's a reason we broke up. Okay, No,

439
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: I would not go camping with an X. That not

440
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: that I think that he would go berserk, but that

441
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: would totally hurt my husband's feelings. I'm not going to

442
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: leave my son behind and take my daughter. That's not

443
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 1: going to happen. But what is that pull that men,

444
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,479
Speaker 1: certain men have over certain women. Advice Earth. Too often

445
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: what we see in couples and relationships, specifically committed relationships

446
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: or good relationships that were at some point very significant,

447
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 1: is that old behavior patterns come in. Someone may say

448
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: something that sounds alluring, someone may say something that sounds

449
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: like it was significant in the past, and then it

450
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: reignites something in that person's mind. So let's go camping. Okay.

451
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: I know that something I shouldn't do. I shouldn't bring

452
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: my daughter, but it brings about a sense of excitement

453
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: I once had. Maybe I'm having an issue with my

454
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: present relationship with someone else, So then I make perhaps

455
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: a decision that may not be the safest. But Nancy,

456
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: one of the things that I've learned for a very

457
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: long time is when your family says, hold up, wait

458
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: a minute, alarm bells, don't do this. We have to

459
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: listen to the family, because the family always seems well

460
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: for the most part, may be much more clear eyed

461
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: about a situation because they may not be directly involved

462
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: with an individual, but they're able to see it much

463
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: more objectively as family. And therefore, when they give a warning,

464
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: we should listen to that family. We should listen to

465
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: the parents. We should listen to the siblings. You know

466
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: that thing that we all do. We do something through

467
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: caution to the wind, and do something, go somewhere on

468
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: an impulse. We've all done it. Why do we do that,

469
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: doctor Jeff Gardeer, knowing it's going to be nothing of

470
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: trouble again, it's going back to those old behavior patterns

471
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: that we still I don't know what you mean by that.

472
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: You better dummy down for me and give me an example.

473
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: If we're involved in a particular interaction with someone, we

474
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: still have unresolved feelings, unresolved emotions. We tell ourselves well

475
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: it's over. We say that in a manifest sort of way,

476
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: a peripheral way, but deep down inside we've never resolved

477
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: that psychodynamic or those feelings. Then you know, all we're

478
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: doing is putting a band aid on something that hasn't

479
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: completely healed. I figure out what you're saying. Are you

480
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: trying to say, maybe she still had feelings for this guy,

481
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: Maybe she still loved him even though she's engaged to

482
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: somebody else, and he shows up and goes, hey, let's

483
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: take our baby girl and go camping. Okay, let's just

484
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: give it a try. I could see a lot of

485
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: women falling for that. You said it much better than I.

486
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: You broke it down, and thank you, Nancy. Absolutely that

487
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: is a possibility. But let's look at another possibility. Could

488
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: it be the individual knows exactly what buttons to push,

489
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: exactly how to manipulate, which is part of that, And

490
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: whether there was a fear factor that ball that the

491
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: parents don't know about. Greg Smith, I got a bad feeling.

492
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: I've got a bad feeling. I mean, look, women and

493
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: men all the time will go off on. Let me

494
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: just say, in a nice way, I'll walk about I

495
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: could see this guy showing up and going, look, we've

496
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: got a long history, we've got this baby girl between us.

497
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: Let's just go away for the weekend, have a good time,

498
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: just be together as a family. I could see her going, Okay,

499
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: can you just see that. It's a strange it's a

500
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: strange situation. I mean, as I've read through different stories

501
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: about this, and I look at some of the dynamics

502
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: of it. I mean, he's ten years older than her,

503
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: which is kind of a strange relationship in and of itself.

504
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: And then you look at the cell phone data that

505
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: we've talked about, the fact that the phones were offered,

506
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: they're no longer activated. I mean, cell phones are my thing,

507
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: that's my specialty. I'm concerned why I don't understand why

508
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: there hasn't been more emphasis put on the cell phone.

509
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: There's a lot of information that can be got from

510
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: cell phone records, from CSLI, from cell site location information.

511
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: Granted that's going to take a warrant to pull that

512
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: information out, but you can actually figure out where they've

513
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: been where you know, where were they on June twenty eighth,

514
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: Where were they on June twenty nine, Where were they

515
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: after they were past time that they should have been back.

516
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: Those are things that can be that can be looked at,

517
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: and I don't see any of that going on, which

518
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: goes back I think to your original question on you

519
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: know the police are treating this is like, well, we

520
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: don't think, we don't have any reason for concern. Okay,

521
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: we're overdue now by a couple of weeks. I think

522
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: there's a reason to be concerned, and that they could

523
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: start looking at that information. I think you're right. I

524
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: think they need to quit focusing on her phone, which

525
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: is obviously turned off, and start focusing on he is.

526
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: Take a list of our cut six our friends at

527
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: WCSH police say Jill and her young daughter Lydia, along

528
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: with a man named Nicholas Hanson. We're camping in the

529
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: town of Phillips in Franklin County. Jill's father, Ron says

530
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: they were expecting her home on Thursday. We hadn't heard

531
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: Hide nor hairever. We can't get through to our phone.

532
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: Nobody's being able to get through to her phone since Tuesday.

533
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: Ron says this is not normal for her to be

534
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: gone without contacting family. Ron also says the man his

535
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: daughter was with, Nicholas Hansen, is the father of Lydia

536
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: and the ex boyfriend of Jill Oh. I was worried

537
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: as soon as our wife told me what they were doing.

538
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: But I didn't think this would happen. I mean, I

539
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: just I hate to say it, but I don't trust

540
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: the guy. There have been past issues with him. Sandford

541
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: Police say they are not considering their disappearance and suspicious

542
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: at this time. For now, Ron and Jill's sisters are

543
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: spreading the word of their disappearance on Facebook posts. It's

544
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: the not knowing what's going on. It is eating away

545
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: and eating away at my head and my stomach and

546
00:33:53,120 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 1: my wife's stomach and her head. Crime stories with Nancy

547
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: grace ale sister Rustchuk. So she goes off with the

548
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: father of her child. She's been painted as a scarlet

549
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 1: woman for basically having two boyfriends. She's not married. She

550
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: can do as she pleases and there's nothing wrong with it.

551
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: And I don't like the fact that she has been

552
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: judged exactly she is not married. And they do share

553
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: a child together. And you know, I know people that

554
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: are divorced or that maybe had never been married, that

555
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: they have children together, that do things together. They take

556
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: their kids to Disneyland, or they do go camping, or

557
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: they go to them all they go to dinner. So

558
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: maybe she was trying to do something nice for her

559
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: daughter where the daughter could see that mommy and daddy

560
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: can get along fine. And she obviously wasn't afraid to

561
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: go on the trip, even though her mother were who

562
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: she lives to believes don't go. But she made a decision.

563
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 1: Maybe that was the right thing for what she thought

564
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: was for her family and for her daughter. You know,

565
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: even the sister didn't like the X. The sister Rita

566
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: warned her on Facebook quote, be careful of Hanson. It

567
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: seems like the whole family was suspicious of him, but

568
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: she went anyway. What do we know about where they

569
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: may be now or how can we possibly find them?

570
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: Shell Nutt and Greg Smith have both pointed out the

571
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: focus on not just her phone, but Nicholas Hanson's phone

572
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: the X. What about their vehicle? Take a listen to

573
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: our cut ten our friends at WGMA. The family was

574
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: last seen driving a silver two thousand VW Jetta with

575
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: a main registration plate one five six three VJ. It

576
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: has a black rear bumper. Please say if you can

577
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: snap a photo or video of a potential sighting that

578
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: could help with their investigation. A sighting is great, but

579
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: until we can actually validate that it is them or

580
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: it is that vehicle, you know, that's where we can

581
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: have another jump off point to maybe check, you know,

582
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: more detailed area, maybe in those areas. Now, the Sanford

583
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 1: Police Department is working with a number of other agencies

584
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: to follow up on tips. But again, that last confirmed

585
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: sighting was now nearly a week ago. And as to

586
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: that signing, we were talking about their behavior, doctor Gardier was,

587
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: we know that according to police who have looked at

588
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: the video, they were buying food on hims end. Quote

589
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: didn't there did not appear to be anything nefarious or criminal,

590
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: according to the Sanford Police Lieutenant Matthew Gagny. So they

591
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: see normal on the twenty seven, and now they've dropped

592
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: off the face of the earth. The family is sick.

593
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: We know that they were last seen in that two

594
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: thousand and five VW Jetta. It's silver tag number main

595
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: tag number one five sixty three V Victor. You know,

596
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: I just keep thinking, as I always tell my girlfriends,

597
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 1: there's a reason you're broke up to dactor. Jeff Gardier

598
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: joining US author and professor, Board certified clinical psychologist. There's

599
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: a reason they broke up, and that reason is giving

600
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: me a very bad feeling inside. She broke up with

601
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: this guy. The whole family says, be careful she goes

602
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: on this camping trip. What is it about these toxic

603
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: relationships that pull people back in? There is what we

604
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 1: know a manipulation that goes in when there may be

605
00:37:54,600 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: a situation of some sort of perhaps emotional abuse use.

606
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: It's not just someone acting out and imposing their will

607
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: on them, but psychologically manipulating them and making them feel

608
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: guilty and engaging in activities that they don't want to,

609
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: lowering their self esteem so that they may make decisions

610
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: that puts them in a compromising situation. But, as a

611
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: very famous person once said, who's a dear friend of mine,

612
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: let's be careful and not victimize the victim here and

613
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: look at this as a cautionary tale as to what

614
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: can happen in a situation where someone is being manipulated.

615
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 1: That person, by the way, who said that was Nancy Grace.

616
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 1: Thanks Donna, Jeff. As always, guys, I got a bad

617
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 1: feeling about this woman and her two year old little

618
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: girl Idia. If you have any information or think you

619
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: have information, dial two zero seven three two four nine

620
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: one seven zero repeat two zero seven three two four

621
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: nine one seven zero. Goodbye friend,