WEBVTT - Navigating the Unwritten Rules of the Workplace

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim

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<v Speaker 1>Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>We do want to get to our next guest. We're

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<v Speaker 2>excited about talking to her as well. She's worked in

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of culture and DII rolls over the last

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<v Speaker 2>twenty years. She's worked in communications and culture at the

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<v Speaker 2>money and metals company BHP Billetin. She's also worked in

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<v Speaker 2>DEI rolls at The Unsued Women.

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<v Speaker 3>And she's done.

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<v Speaker 4>More than that. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>She spent a year as Netflix's director of Diversity and

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<v Speaker 1>Inclusion and is now a managing director at a DEI

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<v Speaker 1>consulting firm. Michelle King is also the author of a

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<v Speaker 1>brand new book. It's called How Work Works, The Subtle

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<v Speaker 1>Science of Getting Ahead Without losing Yourself. She joins us

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<v Speaker 1>on Zoom from the UK. Good to have you with

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<v Speaker 1>us this afternoon. Michelle, how are you.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm good. Thank you so much for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, thanks for joining us. I was really interested in

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<v Speaker 1>reading about the book in terms of the strategies that

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<v Speaker 1>you have for getting ahead without losing yourself, and so

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<v Speaker 1>much of it involves physical being in an office with

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<v Speaker 1>somebody else and like interacting with them and looking for cues,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm wondering how in the world of twenty twenty three,

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<v Speaker 1>when so many people are in these hybrid rules and

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<v Speaker 1>you know you're joining us on zoom for example, how

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<v Speaker 1>you do this?

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, So I mean the book try to cover, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>how the world of work is hybrid, whether we like

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<v Speaker 4>it or not. I know a lot of businesses have

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<v Speaker 4>moved back to being in the office, but I think

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<v Speaker 4>the reality is the data points about seventy to eighty

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<v Speaker 4>percent of companies see this as you know, here to stay.

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<v Speaker 4>So I think the reality is we've got to learn

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<v Speaker 4>how to do this in a hybrid environment. I think

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<v Speaker 4>what makes it a lot more challenging when it comes

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<v Speaker 4>to things like informal networking or sharing informal information as examples,

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<v Speaker 4>it's a lot harder when you're doing that virtually because

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<v Speaker 4>you can't read the non verbal cues, you can't sort

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<v Speaker 4>of see somebody's border context. So I think what that

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<v Speaker 4>requires is actually being a lot more intentional. So you know,

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<v Speaker 4>most people don't actually manage their careers, you know, so

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<v Speaker 4>finds they tend to to sort of let it volve

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<v Speaker 4>organically or hope their company will help them advance and

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<v Speaker 4>the reason I wrote this book is I wanted people

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<v Speaker 4>to see, Look, the world of work has changed, and

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<v Speaker 4>really it's up to each of us now to manage

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<v Speaker 4>our careers and carve our own path.

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<v Speaker 2>What's the biggest mistake people make in today's environment when

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<v Speaker 2>they are trying to get ahead.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the number one mistake is people focus.

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<v Speaker 3>On what they do, not how they do it.

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<v Speaker 4>So eighty three percent of us have to collaborate with

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<v Speaker 4>other people in order to do our jobs.

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<v Speaker 3>That's incredible.

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<v Speaker 4>So if you think back to the nineteen fifties and

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<v Speaker 4>you know sort of companies like Ford Motor Company and

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<v Speaker 4>mass production lines, you could go and do a task,

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<v Speaker 4>go home and not really have to engage too much

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<v Speaker 4>with anybody that has gone So how we work really

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<v Speaker 4>enables what we can achieve because we have to work

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<v Speaker 4>with others to do our jobs.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think companies are still taking DEI seriously. We

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<v Speaker 1>heard a lot of it in the wake of George Floyd,

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<v Speaker 1>in the wake of twenty twenty. Are they taking it

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<v Speaker 1>seriously today?

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<v Speaker 4>Look, I think the backlash we're seeing is pretty inevitable. So,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, I think whenever there's progress, there's some form

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<v Speaker 4>of backlash. I think what this tells me, though, particularly

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<v Speaker 4>as a researcher, having spent maybe all of my career

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<v Speaker 4>also in academia, is that, you know, we haven't really

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<v Speaker 4>engaged white men in understanding how this benefits them. The

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<v Speaker 4>one study I conducted with eight hundred and thirty five

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<v Speaker 4>men and women, I found for men in particular, they

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<v Speaker 4>saw sort of the number one barrier to their advancement

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<v Speaker 4>at work being de initiatives focused on women. And that's

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<v Speaker 4>because men don't really understand what's in it for them.

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<v Speaker 4>They don't really understand, you know, why they should engage.

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<v Speaker 4>There's no personal case for change. And I think in

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<v Speaker 4>many respects, you know, DEI initiatives have failed white men

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<v Speaker 4>because we haven't engaged them in understanding how this benefits

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<v Speaker 4>them and quite honestly why.

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<v Speaker 3>They need this more than anyone.

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<v Speaker 4>And my first book really, you know, try to make

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<v Speaker 4>the case the why we need to engage everyone in

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<v Speaker 4>the fight for building workplaces that work for everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting. Well, I guess it kind of speaks to you

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<v Speaker 2>got to get them on board in order for it

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<v Speaker 2>to really happen, since they are predominantly in the senior roles.

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<v Speaker 2>No right, it's an interesting is that kind of basically

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<v Speaker 2>what you're saying that if you don't get them on board,

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<v Speaker 2>then it's going to be hard to really move forward.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, we need everyone on board, and I think, in

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<v Speaker 4>all honesty, that's why I wrote this book. I wanted

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<v Speaker 4>to show people that the old world of work that

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<v Speaker 4>we know and love, the traditional hierarchical, command and control, dominant, assertive, aggressive,

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<v Speaker 4>typically masculine workplace cultures, that's gone and it's going.

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<v Speaker 3>And the reason it's.

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<v Speaker 4>Going is because workplaces, the innovation, the creativity, the productivity

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<v Speaker 4>they want, everything is on the other side of building

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<v Speaker 4>workplace cultures that are more inclusive. And what I wanted

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<v Speaker 4>to share is this is actually a career imperative. So

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<v Speaker 4>you know, if you want to network, for example, right,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, seventy percent of all jobs come through then

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<v Speaker 4>formal network. You cannot afford to only network with people

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<v Speaker 4>who look like you.

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<v Speaker 3>You could have maybe.

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<v Speaker 4>Back in the nineteen fifties when workplaces were dominated with

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<v Speaker 4>one type of person, but you can't do that today.

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<v Speaker 2>You know that that was actually something Michelle I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to ask you in terms of building networks, I get it,

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<v Speaker 2>like the importance of having a diverse network. But I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>what is the right network to build? Is it people?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we've talked about sponsors and mentors in the past,

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<v Speaker 2>but what is diversity?

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<v Speaker 3>I get?

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<v Speaker 2>But if you really want to move ahead, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>people talk about managing up and like, you know, making

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<v Speaker 2>sure that you're kind of in with the people who

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<v Speaker 2>are making decisions about hiring or maybe pulling you over

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<v Speaker 2>to a new job. You know, what else do you

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<v Speaker 2>we need to kind of be smart about when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to networking.

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<v Speaker 4>So I actually share in the book how you can

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<v Speaker 4>map your informal network. So when you think of an

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<v Speaker 4>informal network, most people think of a cocktail out and

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<v Speaker 4>it sort of dredges up horrible images of having to

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<v Speaker 4>introduce yourself to strangers. That's not an informal network. So

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<v Speaker 4>if you were to write a list of everybody you

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<v Speaker 4>go to for their information on how to do your job,

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<v Speaker 4>advice or social support, that's your informal network, and generally

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<v Speaker 4>it's about twelve to twenty four people. Now, to build

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<v Speaker 4>a healthy, helpful informal network, you really need sort three

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<v Speaker 4>core ingredients. So the first to your point is you

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<v Speaker 4>want to try and have a network that's made up

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<v Speaker 4>of people who don't really share your background. But the

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<v Speaker 4>second thing you want to think about is are you

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<v Speaker 4>building relationships that are mutually beneficial?

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<v Speaker 3>Because we have limited.

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<v Speaker 4>Time and energy to invest in relationships, so we have

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<v Speaker 4>to think about, you know, where we're spending our time.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's okay to not network with people who don't

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<v Speaker 4>have your back and where they don't have your best

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<v Speaker 4>interest at heart, but it's.

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<v Speaker 3>That group where you're unsure.

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<v Speaker 4>So ninety percent of anxiety at work comes from five

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<v Speaker 4>percent of the people in your informal networks. So you

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<v Speaker 4>want to make sure you're not investing in those ambiguous

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<v Speaker 4>relationships right where you're not sure if this person has

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<v Speaker 4>your back. You want to invest in those mutually beneficial relationships.

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<v Speaker 4>And then finally, you really want to make sure you've

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<v Speaker 4>got a mix of what we call close versus loose connections.

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<v Speaker 4>So most of the job information or information on vacancies

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<v Speaker 4>or opportunities comes through what we call loose connections. So

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<v Speaker 4>people who more like acquaintances that you might sort of

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<v Speaker 4>catch up with relatively sort of infrequently, but those close connections,

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<v Speaker 4>that's where you get all the social support. So you

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<v Speaker 4>really want to mix. So it's those three things are

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<v Speaker 4>the magic ingredients for having a strong network.

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<v Speaker 1>What if you don't have a choice about whether you

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<v Speaker 1>invest your time with these people who are not you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not mutually beneficial. What if you have to because

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<v Speaker 1>they are colleagues you have to work with.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So I think that's it's different from a formal

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<v Speaker 4>versus informal network.

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<v Speaker 3>So an informal network is.

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<v Speaker 4>Where you can make a choice in terms of where

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<v Speaker 4>you're spending your time. I think if you're an in

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<v Speaker 4>an ambiguous relationship with somebody, so where you're not sure

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<v Speaker 4>if they have your back or not, I think what

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<v Speaker 4>you have to recognize is that is an ambiguous relationship.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's actually the not knowing that does our heads

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<v Speaker 4>and where you have an interaction, you walk away and

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<v Speaker 4>then you're like, oh, you know, how did that go?

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<v Speaker 4>Why did they do that? You spend all that mental

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<v Speaker 4>and emotional energy. That's what causes anxiety, That's what causes stress.

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<v Speaker 4>So I think it's actually being able to categorize, Hey,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, what category does this person fall into when

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<v Speaker 4>it comes to is this mutually beneficial relationship or not?

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<v Speaker 4>So just the knowing is helpful I think the second

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<v Speaker 4>thing though, is recognizing there are people you have to

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<v Speaker 4>engage with as part of doing your job. That's more

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<v Speaker 4>of a formal network. The informal network, though, is where

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<v Speaker 4>you're spending your time and to grow that you want

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<v Speaker 4>to think about, you know, while your network gives you

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<v Speaker 4>access to information, advice and support, if you want to

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<v Speaker 4>grow your informal network, so you see people who you

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<v Speaker 4>would like to develop connections with.

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<v Speaker 3>One way to do that is to.

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<v Speaker 4>Pay it forward by giving them access to informal information,

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<v Speaker 4>advice or support.

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<v Speaker 3>That's how you grow a network.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that makes it not an awful lot of sense. Michelle,

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much, really appreciate it. Michelle King, author

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<v Speaker 2>of a new book How Work Works, The Subtle Signs

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<v Speaker 2>of getting ahead without losing yourself. Joining us on Zoom

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<v Speaker 2>from the UK. But it is interesting, like the subtle

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<v Speaker 2>differences between the types of networks. Right, there are networks

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<v Speaker 2>you have to work with and then there are those

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<v Speaker 2>that you think about, Okay, wait a minute, like maybe

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<v Speaker 2>by developing this relationship it'll be beneficial to me.

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<v Speaker 1>So different in person versus hybrid.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it has to be right,