WEBVTT - Need an app built? Here's how you can do it yourself. w/ Tara Reed 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:10.000 Afrols at San Francisco, California. Jessica Matthews, founder and CEO 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:12.719 at Uncharted Power, is on the main stage and is 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.000 in the fireside chat. Her sustainable energy technology company is 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.280 growing very quickly. She's learned a lot about team building, 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:23.440 which she discusses as well as realizing her own power 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.120 to overcome big problems in solved complex issues even without 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:29.440 the same credentials as the next person. What I can 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:31.319 tell you is not what I did, which were just 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:33.880 several mistakes. I can tell you what I've learned from them. 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:36.879 The biggest mistake I made and that I have to 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.000 really work on every day despite the learnings, is this 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:45.879 assumption that I can't do what's needed. Like me, I 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:47.760 don't have the ability to do what needs to scale 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:51.320 my company because I didn't have this fancier experience or 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:55.320 I didn't do this fancy thing. The reality is when 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.400 you're building something that's really innovative, there is no right 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:00.760 way to do it. There's only a way to think 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:05.840 and feel about it, which is unbelievable. So persistent passion 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:08.840 and what I found like I would hire these high 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.240 polluted people from these fancy companies and bring them in 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:13.800 and they'd be basic as hell, and I'd be like, 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:15.960 why are you so basic? I don't get it, Like 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:17.600 I don't have a degree in this and I'm about 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:19.720 to google my way to being significantly better than you. 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:24.720 It's because no, and it's because like they you know, 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:27.000 and even Richard Branson will say this stuff. It's like, yo, 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.280 hire for culture, not not for skill set. A smart 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:32.960 person can learn almost anything, or you can have a 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.720 consultant and ask them questions. But when you bring on 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.480 the team and they think they have the skill set 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:41.480 but they don't have the culture. When things change, when 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.720 you have to deal with certain scenarios, it can be 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.360 tough for them. And so we at one point, we're 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:49.760 almost twenty five, and we're right now down to six 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:51.480 team because I just know that there were a lot 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:56.080 of basic people eating up my burnery. I'm with Lucas, 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.680 Mrs Black Tech, Dream Money. I'm gonna answer you to 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:01.360 She just some of the biggest names, some of the 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.840 brightest minds and brilliant ideas. If you're black in building 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:08.040 or simply using tech to secure your bag, this podcast 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:16.160 is for you. Terror Read is founder a apps without code, 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.200 you know, online learning platform which teaches anyone how they 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.079 can build and launch an app to any of the 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.640 big platforms like Apple's App Store and Google Play. However 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:28.279 without writing a line of code. She's a big evangelist 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:30.800 of the idea that technology has advanced to such a 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.960 place where building an app is the easy part. However, 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.200 I asked her about being that is so easy? Are 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.400 there still any real excuses to be used for an 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:43.320 entrepreneur to not have their app idea done? Oh? Well, 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.240 I mean they're all kinds of excuses for people not 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.119 doing stuff and launching their ideas that they have. So yes, 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.200 there are excuses. There's always an excuse. But in terms 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.679 of technology and like I can't do it, it's it's 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:01.320 possible now. Yeah, So much has changed over the past 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.840 really like five years about what is possible to build. 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:08.200 And I've gotten to really see and and largely usher 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:12.240 in this whole new wave of people building things and 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.240 building their ideas, their app ideas without having to have 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.640 a computer science degree or pay twenty dollars to hire 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:20.799 a developer to build it for them. Like people can 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:24.320 really build their products themselves now without code and using 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:26.560 after that code techniques. Yeah, I mean you said, so 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:28.520 much has changed over the past couple of years. What 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.720 has changed that allows somebody who does not have a 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.320 technical background didn't start coding at two and a half 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:39.320 years old, that's right. What happened so before it used 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:41.120 to be that if you had an idea for an 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.640 app or an online business. And really, by the way, 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.240 an app is just something that you log into. So 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.040 if it has a user name and a password that 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:50.840 you can log into, it's an app. Even if it's 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.240 on your computer, it's an app. So sometimes we think 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.600 about apps is just the thing that's in the app 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.360 store that you download, but we use apps all day 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:00.840 every day. If you log into it it I can't 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.000 even keep track of all my passwords. Sometimes if you 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.320 log into it, it's an app, right. So so if 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.120 you had an idea for something that someone would log into, 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:10.680 you would have had a couple options. Before you have 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.520 had to hire someone to build it for you, and 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:15.960 usually pricing for that starts at twenty k and up. 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.279 Or you would have to find someone to be your 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:22.760 tech business partner. And there's nothing wrong with that, but 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:24.640 you want to get someone that you trust and not 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.000 rush that process. And not everybody has network so that 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:30.400 they know a bunch of developers and coders to make 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.400 an app for you, or you would have to learn 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:34.560 to code um which again nothing wrong with it, It 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:36.800 just takes a few years for most people to get 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.039 to a proficiency level. And technology moves so fast that 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:42.400 you spending two years just to learn a new skill 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.880 before you start. Like that idea is gone. And so 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:50.440 you used to have those options. And what changed is 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.640 that the platforms, the software available to let people build 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:57.800 apps changed. Before you used to need to know a 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.440 coding language to do it, and now all you can 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:02.800 build apps in English. So the way that works is 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.840 you design the app by drag, drop, point, click, you 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.200 like like you're making a power point presentation. You put 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.200 what you want on the page, and then you tell 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.560 the app what to do in English, so like it 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.760 literally says if the user clicks the button, then log 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:18.400 them in. And it says that in English is opposed 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:20.279 to you having to learn a whole another language to 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.799 tell the app what to do. So you write these 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.200 logic statements, and the logic statements tell the app what 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.200 to do, and that's what's changed. So there's so many 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.039 people who I would imagine come to you and say, hey, 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:35.039 I hear you saying all this stuff. That sounds good, 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.680 but you know, I still have a problem opening the PDF, right, 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.479 and so like like what kind of person is best 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.440 suited to be building an app without code? And what 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.559 kind of person should still just leave it to somebody else? 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:53.880 You know the question? Great question. Okay, So there's some 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:58.480 basic just tech skills competency that it helps to have. 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:03.000 For example, like your if answering your email is hard, 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:05.800 you should outsource it. Somebody else can do it for you. 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.120 You have other zones of genius, right, And that's just 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:10.840 like real talk, like there are other people who can 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.640 do it for you. I still think you should have 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.880 someone else build it without code, particularly you're just starting. 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.039 You can have someone else build it without code for 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.000 you because that way it gets done in a fraction 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:23.400 of the time and the fraction of the cost. You 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.120 still want that, um, but you may hire someone else 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.080 to do it for you. Um. There's also some just 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.880 like general logic skills it helps to have. So I 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.719 just gave an example earlier, whereas like if the user 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.800 clicks the button, then log them in the concept of 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:44.280 if this then that there are some professions where even 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:46.640 if you've never built an app, like because you do 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:48.479 this kind of thing at work, people pick it up 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.640 so fast. So like, for example, um, if you use 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.080 Excel at all, like it'll be a breeze and easy. 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:58.560 You do lots of logic and Excel right. If you 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.080 are you have part of your job is to give 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:06.279 people detailed instructions, you'll be good at it. Um people 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.719 who have people have like logical a lot of critical 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.840 thinking in their work. There's some roles where like there's 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.360 a little bit of a larger gap. For example, like 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:18.320 when I talk to people who are artists right where 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:22.440 it's all full free form creativity. The computer is not 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:26.040 smart enough to understand your free form creativity ideas. So 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.119 you're gonna have to give it like step by step 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.200 instructions which you can totally learn. But like people who 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:33.840 for example, are struggling with the email and getting your 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:37.400 email open outsource that use your Zonner genius for something else. 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.840 So I wonder, like, is there a certain type of 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:42.960 app that I can build without code? Because I wonder 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.560 if if I wanted to make the next TikTok, could 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.080 I do that without learning how to code? Versus if 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.160 I was trying to make you know, a spreadsheet versus 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.480 you know, kind of kind of, I would imagine there's 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.920 probably some limitations or no, you can tell me no, 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.120 there are limitations. So it's probably easier for me to 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.160 tell you what you can't do then to tell you 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.559 what you can do, because most stuff you can do now. 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:09.400 And I'll preface this by saying that every time people 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:12.520 ask me a question about what you can't do without code, 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:16.080 like the next month, someone comes out with the software 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:20.640 that allows you to do this, So it does change. Um. 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:24.000 For example, I used to say that, like augmented reality 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.200 not really possible yet without code, Like I'm sure someone's 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.320 working on it, but not yet possible, but it's now possible. Actually, 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.280 Facebook has a tool called spark a R which allows 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.960 you to build augmented reality apps without codes, So like 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:38.520 that's no longer true. So I say that to say that, 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.600 like if someone launches something this this space is developing quickly, 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.199 so like people will launch stuff, um, the things that 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.199 are still hard to do without code. Emoji apps, you 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.560 know those apps were like you create your own emojis 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:55.240 and they embed into your keyboard. Still hard to do 0:08:55.400 --> 0:09:00.600 without code, um. Virtual reality so not into the reality. 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.480 Augmented reality is where like let's say you hold up 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.160 your phone and it puts like we see this a 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:09.280 lot and like snapchatter chick or TikTok or filters. Right, 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.480 that's a that's an augmented reality. You still see some 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.000 the normal thing through the camera, but you put a 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:17.040 hat on top of the person's head or you you 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.520 augment what's actually happening in reality. UM, so that now 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.960 is actually possible. Virtual reality is where like you have 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.280 like a headset, for example, and you change the whole world. 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:29.920 Your whole world is now you're in a different land. Right. 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.000 So virtual reality still I haven't seen a lot of 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.760 really good tools for no code with virtual reality, augmented 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:40.640 reality yet virtual reality now, UM what else? Um, there 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:45.960 are some limitations in like UM and this kind of 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:52.280 depends on the tool in UM. Cryptocurrency thus far without 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:57.120 code and really plugging into cryptocurrency platforms and doing cryptocurrency 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:00.640 deals and transactions and letting people pay in cryptocurrency, that 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:05.480 still is not amazingly smooth without code. But those those 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.680 are the biggest areas that I see people stuck with. 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.160 And there used to be other areas, and then someone 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.120 came out with a tool, so like things you can 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:17.040 do UM and actually we have like a couple common 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:21.160 structures that we find most people's app ideas fall into 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.880 UM and these are all totally possible. So most of 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:28.640 the time UM many app ideas will give you the categories, 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.720 so they will an app that recommends things right, think 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.440 like Tender for example, where it's giving you recommendations based 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:40.000 on something. An app that gives you like a community, 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.920 so think like Facebook, think TikTok, think Instagram like a 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.800 community based app really good for building without code. UM 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.760 A marketplace app where people are like buying and selling 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.120 things from each other, think like Airbnb people can buy 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.679 and sell. Also a UM I would call it like 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:01.400 a service tracking app, so think like Uber where you 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.199 like book a thing and you can track the progress, 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.200 or even like Domino's pizza tracker. Like those are like 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:11.880 examples of those sorts of tracking service tracking UM I 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:18.520 think like also UM tracking of a like numbers or metrics, 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.959 so think like Fitbit or even like Salesforce where you're 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:27.000 tracking the progress or process of a transaction, a sale 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:29.920 of your health whatever that might be. What am I 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:35.080 forgetting here missing those are really common ones. There's a 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.520 couple more that we often have people fall into. But 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:39.520 like those are things you totally can do, and I 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:44.080 would count consider those things like easy to do without code. Now, yeah, 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.400 at what point do you think it will we will 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:49.880 get to the place where we don't feel like we 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:51.719 have to tell our kids and our young people go 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:57.320 learn to code because no code has gotten so sophisticated 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.600 where you don't have to go get the engineering situation 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:02.520 is are we still like a decade out, two decades 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:04.360 or we a couple of years out or would that 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:08.400 always be that you still know that we should be 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.160 doing that period, Like there is a movement where it's 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.240 like everybody go learn to code. Like I recognize that, 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.839 particularly for folks of color, we're like, oh, look that's 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.360 where the money job is. Everybody should go learn to code. 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:24.000 I don't know if that's the right narrative. Um, in 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:25.800 the same way that I don't know it's the right 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.240 narrative that like when we say everybody should be a doctor, right, 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.560 that's that's where the money is. I think when we 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.480 do that, particularly as people of color, we end up 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:37.120 being like behind the curve because by the time the 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:41.440 generation whoever is giving that recommendation realizes that that's where 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.600 the money is. That next generation, like the money is 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.120 moved to a different kind of place. So, UM, while 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.000 I don't think it's a bad thing to be a developer, 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.920 to be clear, UM, I think we really want to 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:54.360 teach people how to be in our people, particularly how 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:58.040 to be good problem solvers. UM. The concept of thinking 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.679 like an engineer, that part is useful regardless of what 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.240 you do. And when I say thinking like an engineer, 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.680 I really mean in this scenario, like there there is 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.880 a sequence of events that need to happen, and there's 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.360 a logic behind those sequence of events. And if you 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.760 want to go be a lawyer and use that um knowledge, 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:18.559 if you want to go be a developer and use 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:20.559 that knowledge, if you want to go be an artist 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.559 and use that knowledge, that's still relevant. So I'm not 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.760 a huge backer of like this whole everybody should code 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:31.560 movement in the first place. UM. I think that the distinction, though, 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.679 to directly answer your question, is depending on if you're 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:37.560 trying to get a job in tech or you're trying 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.640 to do entrepreneurship in tech. All right, So if you're 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:42.840 trying to get a job, you still need to learn 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.400 to code. There are not enough companies yet who are 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:49.160 hiring no code developers. They're more and more. So if 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.760 you go on like upwork, for example, you see all 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.200 these job postings for no code developers. Now, um, but 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.360 most big companies are looking for you to code, all right, 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:00.880 So if that's the goal, go learn to code. If 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:06.440 your goal is entrepreneurship, and particularly if you're not technical already, 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.640 like you're not technical, you're interested in entrepreneurship, it may 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.640 not make sense to go spend years learning a new 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.680 skill set when you probably ultimately in the company that 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.280 you build will be doing something else, like you might 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.960 be the CEO and at some point not coding at all. 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.160 And in that scenario, your goal is to get as 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:29.320 quickly to paying customers as possible, and so whatever way 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.040 you can do that, usually no code will get you 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.280 there much faster, if that makes more sense. So if 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.120 it's about job, definitely still have to go learn to code. 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:41.040 I think we're five maybe ten years out plus from 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.760 that changing. Um, just because of how no code has 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.520 gotten popularized, and I think how we're talking about it. 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.360 I don't think that the no Code community and space 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.440 has done a great job talking about what no Code 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:57.240 is such that it's gotten the adoption that it deserves. Yeah, 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.640 and you know what's so interesting to me is you 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:01.880 didn't it into this wanting to be an entrepreneur. You 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.840 didn't see yourself as an entrepreneur, you know, growing up, 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.160 and now you're running this big business, this online platform, 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.400 teaching people how to do this, and a lot of 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.200 folks who will be building these apps that you're that 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:17.480 you're evangelizing don't see themselves as people who build apps. 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:20.400 So how do you how do you think about, you know, 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.720 reframing um your own mental process to be able to 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.800 be successful, because if I'm just trying to run my 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.800 small grocery store, now I'm building this app, you know, 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.480 there's other things that go into that, you know, to 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.000 find success versus just let me throw this up on 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.440 app store real quick and move on. Yes. Absolutely, I 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.040 always tell people that they should build a business that 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.600 happens to have an app, not an app that happens 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.680 to have a business. The business comes first, right, and 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.280 the app is just a tool that delivers it to people. 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.560 In fact, a lot of the times it's not even 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:55.960 useful to market. If you have an app idea, it's 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.560 not even useful to market it as an app because 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.400 in people's head or as just an app quote unquote, 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:05.080 because in people's heads when people hear app, they think 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:10.840 free cents, two dollars, ten dollars, some low price point, um. 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.640 But if they hear something else, right, other energy, to 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:18.080 hear education, to hear services, all these other things experiences 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.480 we think are expensive. App we think it's cheap. So 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.040 even if you're building an app, you may not even 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.240 want to position it that way. And that's where your 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:30.360 point about other skill sets comes in, because if all 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:32.760 you're good at is building the app, you're gonna have 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.440 some trouble because you won't make much money from it 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:38.520 and really won't have a thriving business itself sustaining. What 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:40.840 you really want to be thinking about is what business 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.320 you build around this thing. And for me, I had 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:46.560 started to my background isn't working in tech. I worked 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.200 at Google, four squared, Microsoft before becoming a full time entrepreneur, 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.560 but I was working on the business and marketing side, 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.200 so I was not developing any apps, um, And I 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.480 was not planning to be an entrepreneur like you're saying, 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.720 I my plan originally was to climb the corporate ladder. 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.640 The only reason, the only reason that I built an 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:05.959 app was because I was working at the time at 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.080 Microsoft and I felt like there was a lot of 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:13.280 bureaucracy in my job and I wanted like another creative outlet, 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.720 that something I had control of more as opposed to 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:18.919 sort of like the politics playing that I was feeling 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.960 frustrated with at work. That's why I built my first app. 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.359 I wanted like another creative outlet, and I didn't have 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.359 those words at the time, and I can look back 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.080 and say, oh, that's what it was. I was just 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.680 looking for like something that I could like create and build. 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:35.600 I'd like to make things um But really I think 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.040 at the time, I just felt like I like to 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.080 solve hard problems. There was something about the challenge of 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.720 putting something out there into the world that I made 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:46.399 that feels cool and exciting and like, let me go 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.320 check that out. That's probably closer to the words that 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.400 I had at the time. And so I think that 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:54.440 I did not think of myself as an entrepreneur. I 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:56.399 don't think it's that important that when you start you 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.679 think of yourself as a hotshot entrepreneur. Um. But I 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.399 do think it's important that you think about how you're 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:04.720 going to make money with the business, and is this 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.720 an idea that people are willing to pay for? And 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:13.280 why is this idea a good use of my unfair advantage. 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.439 When I say unfair advantage, I mean something that you 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.359 already know something about. I often see entrepreneurs launch something 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:22.439 and they're like, no, absolutely nothing about the industry that 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.640 they're launching the app in or a launching the business. 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.560 And it's not a bad thing to do. It just 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.600 means you're not leveraging your unfair advantage, which is something 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:32.600 you already know something about. So those are all the 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.720 like business skills and things that surround the app that 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.479 many people who are non technical they already sort of 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:43.000 have as their common sense and are refining even more. Um, 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.040 those are the things that really make a big difference. 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:47.000 At least for me, has made a really big difference 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.760 in my business success. The app building piece has been 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:52.080 just an extra thing that has enabled me to have 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.840 reach and be able to enter tech in a different way. Yeah, 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.040 and let's go in there, because I wanted to ask 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.600 you this is how do I know, Like, what is 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.960 that process that you teach people on to say, how 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:06.960 to determine if this is a viable app idea in 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.159 the first place, Because so many people will come to 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.920 you be like I got an idea. What's the process 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.160 you go through to to walk them through and say, 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.159 let's find out if this is actually an idea versus 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:20.200 just something you and your mom said it was fantastic. Yeah, 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:22.760 that's right, that's right. Okay. So there's two parts to 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.800 the process. The first is just coming up with the 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:27.760 idea in the first place, and then the second is 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.159 exactly what you're mentioning, which is going to test it 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.040 and validate it to make sure this is something that 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:35.840 will make the kind of business that you want. So 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.040 the first step I usually encourage people like call it 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.720 a smart idea formula, but to walk through a series 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.399 of three questions for themselves to come up with an 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:48.040 app idea that leverages their unfair advantage in the first place. 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:50.960 So the first question to ask yourself is an easy one. 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.120 It's like what do I do for work? You could 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.280 also do the same process with what you do as 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:59.199 a hobby, So like, what's my hobby? Because starting there 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.520 allows us to build something around something you already know 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.400 something about. You know more about it than I do, right, 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:09.200 And so we start there. Then the second question is 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.800 what is one thing that is hard or time consuming 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.239 about what you do for work or what you do 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:17.159 for a hobby. We all have parts of our jobs 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:18.879 that were like, oh, I gotta do this part again, 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:20.560 it's just kind of like annoying, I've got to do 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.720 this right, or even things that your boss is complaining 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.640 about that you just repetitive prophecies, or things that are 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.760 hard or time consuming. Even if you're a full time parent, 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:31.560 right figuring out what your kids are going to be 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.880 doing for that day is harder time consuming. And so 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.399 the third question to ask yourself then is if you 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.760