WEBVTT - Inside Spill's Mission to Decolonize Social Media ft. Lisa Beasely, Kenya Parham 0:00:02.120 --> 0:00:05.600 Okaba fan, I cannot be more excited to have this 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:07.680 duo on the show. First of all, it's the duo 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:10.360 I didn't know I needed in my life. And y'all 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.520 know of brown ambition. I want to create a space 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.480 where we can, like sister talk like we're getting around 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.040 a table. We are not just having guests on who 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:22.360 want to talk about, of course, all their incredible business ventures, 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:25.000 but the people who have come up with them, the 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:29.400 relationships that have sustained them during those hard times, the 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:32.160 friendships that keep them going, the people who know the real, 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:35.760 real you know, when the lights go off and the 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:40.080 way it comes off, and the real you know, the 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:42.839 real shit that we're all going through. And so I 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:45.640 have a couple of incredible guests today. First, I have 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.280 Kenya param who is the chief growth officer for a 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:52.080 spill app. Here's the t Now, if y'all are not 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:54.959 familiar with spill app, what's wrong with you? If you're 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:57.240 looking for an alternative to the you know what of 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:59.240 it all? Just going to put the what are we 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.120 calling it? The are just formally known as Twitter, and 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:05.880 you want to join a black owned, black maid for 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.000 the culture. Social media app spill is where it's at. 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.560 I love Spill, and then also Lisa Beasley, who I 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.560 don't even know. Lisa, Like when people recognize your name, 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.679 I feel like if I said, your real name is 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:21.160 kind of cool, You're like a Clark Kent kind of vibe. 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:27.039 She's actually better known as Corporate Aaron, the comedian actress. 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.479 And we'll talk a little bit about entrepreneur as well, 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.760 who has been plaguing our social media nightmares for years 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:38.440 and giving us all PTSD of being in corporate and 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:42.039 talking and listening to the corporate errands of the world. 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.520 But I'm excited for y'all to get to know Lisa 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:46.160 as well as Kenya, who. 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.280 Y'all have come up together right well, firstly, you know, 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.240 really grateful to be here with you and have an 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:57.040 opportunity to introduce Spill to the BA community, the Brown 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:57.920 Ambvision community. 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:04.720 We are conversation connection, culture, community, commerce, an impactful place 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:08.320 where we are on a mission to become the de 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.640 facto place to discuss and discover the things that matter 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.880 most to us as culture driving communities. We are an 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:21.200 emerging social platform that's built to center brown, black, queer 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:26.600 communities who have historically driven culture across the Internet, but 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:29.520 unfortunately received the line share of hate on other social 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.519 platforms because of a lack of trust and safety. So 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:37.920 on spill, we have a deep, heavy policy and practical 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.320 investment in moderation and safety. 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.560 We can tag team Lisia, you know when you want 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:44.200 to come through. 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:48.520 But we were both at the AFRO Tech conference this 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:51.720 past year in November. Where was I. 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:54.520 Okay, I didn't get a chance to meet you, Lisa, 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:55.200 but I saw you. 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:57.000 Yeah, I saw you. 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:57.320 Yeah. 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.400 Corporate Air was there and I took a It was 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:02.280 a girl's trip. It was me and Corporate here and 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:03.640 we were both there at the same time. 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:06.040 Gotcha right, that's right. 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:10.639 And so I had quite a few speaking engagements over 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:12.200 the course of a couple of days. It was a 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:16.240 super packed schedule and we had this spilled leadership team 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:20.120 and a couple of our other folks there and we 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.400 ran into each other at the Black Excellence brunch and 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:23.840 the minute that I saw her. 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:26.440 I was like, Okay, I know exactly who this is. 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:27.840 I had a little fan girl moment. 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:30.919 I went up to her and as I was speaking 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.360 to introduce myself, she was like, I know who you are. 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:35.160 I haven't seen you over the last couple of days, 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.040 and I was like, okay. 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.600 Yeah, yeah, And I remember thinking, so at the last 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.080 event that we saw each other at the Black Excellence brunch, 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.000 so I was there working the event, but also there 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:46.880 for myself. 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.160 So I'm getting what I want to get done. 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:51.760 But there was only a couple of activations that Lisa 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:54.800 myself wanted to go to, because it is true, I 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.440 do have different personalities from my characters, even though they 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:58.560 all come from the same place. 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:00.920 I'm so really to hear your real voice, I gotta 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.040 tell you, that's such a relief. 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.240 I can also do this like Beyonce though, so we 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:13.760 have options. Okay, so she's she's a She's at the brunch, 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:17.120 but had I had only gone to a couple of other, 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:22.560 like auxiliary events put on by different companies, but Spill 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.159 was always the like one of the companies at the 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:28.160 activations that I was going to, So I didn't know, 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.160 but I went to the Spill activations, And now that 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:33.520 I'm thinking about it, the Spill activations appealed to me. 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.000 So those are the extra ones that I went to. 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.440 Because you know, when you go to these huge conferences, 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.480 there's so much going on at once, which is why, 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:42.280 which is why you have three people at a conference 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.039 and they not know and so speaking to that while 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:48.880 she's doing her thing with the there's a Microsoft Copilot event. 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:52.359 She's on a panel and she's just talking that talk 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.960 I like to hear. It's just very decolonized and there 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.159 was no centering of ideals. 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:58.440 That I didn't like. 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:01.240 Yeah, and within like the first couple of minutes, so 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:05.039 I'm like, hey, girl, huge fan of your work, not 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:09.120 just your comedy and your artistry, but also you know, 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.680 corporate batty to corporate batty, Like, I salute you. 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:14.440 I get it. It makes sense to me. 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.160 And I'm just kind of going through the motions and 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.040 she's like, okay, you know what, I got to let 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:21.240 you know right now. I didn't even have to pitch her. 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:24.520 She was like, I'm planning this huge stunt. I'm leaving 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.280 X and we about to do something and I'm joining 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:28.240 Spill and. 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:29.320 I want you to know that. 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:33.480 From that moment until when we chily pulled off this 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.919 really successful big stunt, it was like ten days in time, 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:39.600 which wow, I've heard of. 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:41.640 Okay, I'm not trying to be like go out and 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:45.480 circle back, y'all. I want I'm. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:46.600 In the camp of like, will let's all be making 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:47.760 pick your fruit off trees? 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.599 But I know we can't get it. So this is 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:53.839 what I mean in terms of being a corporate baddy. 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:57.240 The activation that we pulled off that took ten days 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:01.920 would have taken your typical stress G marketing team anywhere 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:06.960 from three weeks to seven eight months. Seriously so and 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:09.640 still and people will know what I mean when I 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.960 say this, still banging it out legitimately, like still having 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:17.040 a deliverable slist, still having you know, the itemizations, still 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.720 getting to the contracting, still doing the thing we've already done, 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.680 the whole meetings to death thing that stops in the 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:24.600 way of progress. 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:25.760 And so here I. 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:32.560 See this high executive in a large platform that I 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:36.120 could have a place in, looking at me and talking 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:36.359 to me. 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:38.520 That's never happened at other platforms. 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:42.560 So on X I left, it was twenty seven thousand 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:47.719 followers and looking across if I if I look across 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.320 my Internet kingdom, yes, you know, surveying the land of 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:53.800 about six hundred and fifty thousand, I'm like, I can 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:59.480 do away with that island. So but I also understand 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:05.480 very de how my revenue streams as a pertean's platform 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:09.280 work and how they also work as leveraging and marketing channels. 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:14.400 So I didn't feel like I was losing anything because 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.080 I was gaining some of my soul. 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:20.400 Back, right yeah, and it's nice. I mean you guys 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.480 are in startup phase, right ken yea? I mean you've 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.400 been Mischief Growth officer. How's the growing doing? What does 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.160 that all entail? How do you grow? Can't I can't 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.800 think of a more intimidating kind of platform to launch 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.720 when there's so much noise, so many options. My god, 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.640 thread and Blue Threads and Blue Sky and the meta 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:43.240 of it all. I'm like, but to have something like 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.200 spill in the mix? What has that been like to 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:47.800 grow this brand at this time? 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:48.800 You know? 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:53.800 I started off with the team day one, twenty twenty three. 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.040 At the top of twenty twenty three as the global 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.360 Vice president for Community and Partnerships. 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.200 At the top of this year, I've stepped into being Chief. 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:06.120 Growth Officer, where I'm now responsible for leading all growth revenue. 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:07.560 User lines got promoted. 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:13.280 I love to optimize the complete user journey, maximizing retention, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:18.480 scaling revenue operations, and making sure that our high performing 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:22.320 teams are focused on success, and so growth looks a 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.960 lot like an upward trajectory, but also continuing to double 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.240 and triple down on what we've always done really well, 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.840 which is centering the communities, protecting the communities who drive 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.680 culture forward, and making sure that people have a stafer, 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.360 more fun, more enjoyable place on the Internet to just 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:38.880 be ourselves. 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.320 How is it that you like, what actually goes into 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.800 making this a protected a protected space, like we're an 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.560 in dangerous b bcs or something the protected lens. If 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.920 you're black, you're queer, your trands in that community. What 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:53.840 are you getting that's different? You've said you protect us, 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.240 But is it through moderation? Is it like we're going 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.160 to filter out racism and misogyny and that kind of thing. 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.560 What actually is happening behind the Wizard's curtain? 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:04.320 Yeah, I appreciate that question. 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.920 So, firstly, we have a really robust set of community 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:11.640 guidelines that I authored in partnership with some of the 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:15.720 top trust in safety professionals who are also black women 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.640 across in this field. I sat and listened and learned 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:23.760 to what was working and what wasn't working on other platforms. 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.280 When we authored our rules, and that is kind of 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.000 the rule book. 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.520 By which we have created, you know, governance on Spill, 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.320 and then we kind of bring our tech into it 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:38.600 where we are training one of the first ever large 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:44.320 language models in AI for content moderation, so basically culturally 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:50.000 competent technology that is enforcing our community guidelines. And an 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.880 amazing thing happens when we do that, because it's not 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.320 just about the defense obviously, right, like you know, the 0:09:56.400 --> 0:10:00.439 things that would normally populate on other social platforms hit 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.440 the timeline on Spill because of our AI lines of defense. 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:06.000 But we also have humans in. 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:11.880 The loop, a talented team of culturally competently trained human 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.520 beings who are on the clock twenty four to seven 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.480 three sixty five in shifts to be the human lines 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.880 of defense to enforce these rules as well. And so 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.360 that awesome thing happens I was talking about where it's 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.960 not just about defense, but it's also about the offense. 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:31.000 Because when you don't have to worry about defending for 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.480 your life on social media, right, you show up with 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:42.040 much more authentic, authentistic voice, You show up much more 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:47.080 authentically in you know, in community, you know, and love 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:54.720 happens when that happens, right, connection happens, Relationships foster, you 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:58.679 can do business with folks right, Just amazing things spark 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:00.640 from a place where you don't have to feel like 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:05.960 you are combating yourself against some of the most vitriolic, 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:09.920 disgusting elements of hate that, in particular, black women who 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:14.280 over index in use on social media face every single day. 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:18.720 Yeah, I think I'm in like a bit of a 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.440 bubble with Brown Ambition because just the audience we attract, 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:24.520 I mean, it's us. It just has always felt so 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:29.240 safe and our listeners, it's just positivity up and down. 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:31.319 And I mean doesn't mean they won't say when they 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:35.640 don't like something or question something, but it feels very 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.240 safe here. And it sounds like Spill also kind of 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.319 offers that community. I have a personal Spill account. I 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:44.319 think I need to start my Brown Ambition Spill account 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:47.640 breaking news Brown Ambition on Spill come follow us. 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.320 I mean, we've got groups now, so it'd be great 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:50.840 to help. 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:53.480 Great Fition group where okay. 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.360 Your listeners and your community can continue to receive updates 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:00.000 about what's happening on in the Brown Ambition world. 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:05.240 Yeah, all right, so tell me like Kenya and Aaron, 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:09.199 you guys met at this conference. I'm kind of surprised. 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:15.320 Should I just called you Aaron? If you bring that wing, 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.959 if you take that listen the pitch, better stay the pitch. 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:25.720 I like the baritone. Uh what was I going anyway? Whatever? 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:27.640 I want to start talking in a British accent again, 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:29.520 It'll be fine, Aaron. 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:32.800 No, this is the part of my person who joke. 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.640 By the way, I'm maliciously I maliciously enjoyed this a 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:38.599 little bit, so I'm sorry. 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.160 But I'm glad you do. It's like my sons because 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.280 I named them Rio and Remy, which I'm an idiot, 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:48.520 and yeah, it's great. But I like Lisa, even though 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.440 your name is in like twenty font in front of 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:54.120 my face. Christ Almighty Lisa. When you were an Afro 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.560 tech you were You're also an entrepreneur, right, so like, 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.199 can you tell us about your corporate journey and how 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.120 it's been in entrepreneurship land? How are you coping? 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:03.880 Yeah? 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.520 Absolutely, A lot of people don't know my story because 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.439 on purpose, I kind of market myself forward facing with 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.040 the content because I've been having a lot of fun 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:18.280 having a direct access to people who watch my content. 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:23.640 Without Hollywood gatekeepers. So grow up, Gary and Diana. I 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.720 went to perform in arts high school, but I played 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.160 the clarinet, so I was very shy. 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.840 So I wait a second, I also was a clarinet player. 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:32.040 Does that mean that we're shy? 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:34.680 Well, I was shy, but I knew I wanted to 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:38.400 be like a star and a singer and broad Way. 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:40.920 But I was like, I was. 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:45.600 Clarinet in middle school. 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:54.280 You guys all, this is now a different podcast right now. 0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:58.760 That's so funny. 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.120 Yeah, so I took the that too. It was the 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.320 only way I was gonna pay for college. So I 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.600 went to a college in Memphis, Tennessee. I went to 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.560 lamorna On College, went on a full music scholarship and there, 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:15.120 yeah there, so I uh uh did a concentration in 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.440 classical jazz studies. And from there I knew that I 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.360 did not want to enter the workforce because I did 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.760 the responsible thing of Okay, in senior year college, you 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:26.800 can get a management position just because you have a 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.120 bachelor's It doesn't even matter what it's in. So I 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.440 did those programs that employers was doing at the time 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.040 where they were enticing you know, fresh college grads doing 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:36.560 the responsible thing of like, alright, let me secure my 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.080 check so I could pay for my car so I 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:40.680 could drive to my job, so I could pay for 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:42.520 my apartment, so I could pay for my car so 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.600 I could drive for my job. So and I and 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.680 I was like, I wanna be a performer and I 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.480 that was like one of the first calls from inside 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:52.280 the house that I truly answered where I felt like 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.560 I am shifting the direction of my life. And I 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.240 went to LA instead of working at like enterprise rent 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.360 a car. I could have got started at like sixty 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.520 thousand dollars benefits, but I decided to go to LA 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:04.880 with three suitcases and be homeless until I found an 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.800 apartment instead. And then I did act the school for 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:09.640 a couple of years, and that was like I knew 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:11.280 the last time or I thought that I would be 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.760 able to immerse myself fully in the arts for like 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.560 twelve fourteen hours a day. I was truly on my fame. 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.400 And here's where you start paying and sweat. So fast 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.680 forward to leaving that I got broke, moved back to Gary, Indianna. 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.320 And then I was like, oh no. 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:28.600 Okay, so how many years did you try to kick 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.080 it in LA before I was there for. 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:32.440 Two and a half years. 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.120 I was at school for two years and then I 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.120 tried to do six months as a green, fresh eted 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.920 actors student. I ain't had no money, I didn't understand Hollywood. 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.480 I just knew I was very talented, and that is 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.200 not how you want to. 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:44.760 Go about that. 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.120 So I moved back to Gary and then I started 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:50.760 auditioning in Chicago, and that's where I found like this 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:52.680 robust theater scene, and that's where. 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.360 I found like a career and like where you could. 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.520 Get your equity card and have health insurance because you're 0:15:58.520 --> 0:15:59.840 an artist in Chicago. 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:02.800 And then just started building from there. 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.400 It's a great place to like be a producing artist 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:09.520 and curate for the city. And then I did about 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.000 six to ten shows a week for about ten to 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:12.920 twelve years. 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:14.320 What kind of shows was this? 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:14.440 Like? 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:15.680 Improv it? 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:17.920 So it ended up with improv. But at the start 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:19.080 I was doing. 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:25.560 Musical theater, like original musical theater from playing theater houses 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:28.880 in Chicago or like other August Wilson's and the and 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.840 the Fences and the and I was always a comedic 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:33.360 relief in serious. 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.800 Plays and then oh we love that, Yeah. 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.400 And then I started started doing comedy in Chicago because 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:42.800 I found the there was this improv scene growing up. 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.280 We called it ad living, and I didn't know how 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.400 serious improv was a new team if they had a show, 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.640 but I was never into I was never into Saturday 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.160 Night Live. I was never into the improv as they 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.000 know it. I was just into black people play all day. 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:01.680 So that's where I get my chops from. So it 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:06.160 turned out I was very good at it and started 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:10.639 getting the jobs that that that the white people had 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.080 wanted for decades but didn't and I would get there 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.080 as soon as possible, get the jobs that they wanted. 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:17.840 And just skyrocketed through that. 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.760 And then that's when I saw like this path of 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:22.680 and here's how you get a TV show, and here's 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:24.320 how you get in writer's rooms, and here's how you 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:28.240 work and how like, and so I sincerely tried. 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.480 To do that and it was very hard. 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:35.199 But there is this transition from from acting on stage 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:40.080 to TV that does take time because the immediate gratification 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.280 of having an audience is no longer there when you're 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:42.920 on set. 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:45.600 So it was a different mindset that I was shifted into. 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.879 So did you try to do TV, Like, were y 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:50.920 did you have like pilots. 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:52.800 Or oh absolutely, yeah, so you. 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:55.040 Moved back to LA at a certain point, or you 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:56.400 doing that in Chicago? Okay. 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:58.280 I stayed in Chicago because I was one of those 0:17:58.320 --> 0:17:59.760 people that's like, oh, you don't have to be out 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.360 there to do this, because they moved slower out there, 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:07.280 just traditionally as working meaning California queen. 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:11.520 Oh yeah yeah, and not slow slower like in Chicago. 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:12.320 We have a problem. 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:14.159 No, I'm from New York. I mean I live in 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.200 New York now, but I know they do move slow 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:16.639 in Cali. 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:17.359 Yeah, like. 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.680 Tuesday, we'd be like, you want to meet, Let's meet Wednesday. 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.520 But in California it's like, let's meet next Wednesday. 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.640 So it's that gives me anxiety just thinking about that. 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:29.520 Why not now? 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:31.480 Yeah, So I was like I'm gonna keep my operation 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.040 here because I started to get guest star roles. 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.240 I did a couple of TV shows. 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:38.840 I have a lot of friends in TV, like helping 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.199 write pilots and pitching pilots, and I was doing the 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.159 pitch game. But I heard no too many times for 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:45.960 the level of talent that I knew that I had, 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.119 and so I stopped, and so I worked at I 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.399 was a writer at Cards Against Humanity, And on June twelfth, 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.120 twenty seventeen, that's when I was decided to become a 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:59.680 full time entrepreneur because I've always done that. I did 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.840 graph design to support myself through acting school, and that 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.480 built this way up kind of like with my acting 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.399 career of becoming eventually a creative director and a founder 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:10.760 and a company. So I know, I just sounded like 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.800 I skipped a lot, but this is like ten years 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.919 of me working skills alongside each other because to be 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.240 an actor, I had to have a real world skill 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.720 to support myself because it was one hundred and twenty 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.040 five dollars a week. The kids' theater shows were not 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.040 gonna pay the bills, so I would offset it with uh, 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:32.520 my own graphic design clients that I managed terribly because 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.080 I didn't understand my own workflow. If we wanna talk 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.480 about entrepreneurs, not I. I have a feeling in my 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:40.520 spirit that there are some listeners on the Brown Ambition 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:44.280 that understand the client deliverable aspect of their businesses, and 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:46.360 how do you start to realize it's a different skill set. 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:49.520 But anyway, it's so real. That's so it's it's so real. 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.879 And so I took I took those skills and I 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:58.040 started a traditional, good old fashion corporate, mid corporate corporate 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:01.920 business where I did a inclusion consultant for Fortune five 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:06.920 hundred and Fortune one hundred companies and this is where. Yeah, 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:08.760 so that was a good that was a good five 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:14.960 years of talking to industry agnostic. Industry agnostic is how 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:19.000