1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to River Cafe, Table four, a production of iHeartRadio 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: and Adamized Studios. 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 2: So I can't see David, I can see you in 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: my mind's I have you right in the center of 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 2: my mind. 6 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 3: I can see you too, You're in the center of 7 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 3: my heart. David Aja is a close friend and a 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 3: great architect. Everything he does, his buildings, his office, how 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 3: he works with clients, how he creates a family is 10 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 3: done with ethos, social concerns and the highest possible values. 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 4: He's in Ghana right now. I am in London, but 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 4: here we are together. 13 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 3: When you go to Rome, which you in the city, 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 3: you and I both love, and you go in the 15 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 3: spring to restaurants, they serve artichokes in so many different ways. 16 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 3: They boil them, they raise them. But the romana are 17 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 3: these kind of slow cloped arto jokes. Whole the stem 18 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 3: and meet the whole thing. 19 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: Killer. I love vegetable, so it's perfect artichokes. A la 20 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: romana serve six twelve small or six large violetta artichokes 21 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: with their stalks. Prepare the artichoke, but leave them whole. 22 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 2: Scoop out the choke with a teaspoon as each artichoke 23 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: is prepared. Place in a bowl of cold water with 24 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: the juice of two lemons for the herbs. Mix together 25 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: the parsley, mint, crush, garlic, and six tablespoons of olive 26 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 2: oil and season well. Drain the artichokes. Press the herb 27 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 2: mixture inside the center of each archer choke. Pour two 28 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: hundred and fifteen mili liters of olive oil into a 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: saucepan large enough to contain all the artichokes. Put the 30 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: artichokes stuffed side down, jam together so they stay upright. 31 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: Scatter any excess herb stuffing over the top. Add water 32 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: to come to one third of the way up the globes, 33 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: and bring to a boil. Reduce the heat. Cover with 34 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 2: a sheet of greasepoop paper, and place the lid on top. 35 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,119 Speaker 2: Cook gently for about thirty minutes, or until the water 36 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: is evaporated and the autichokes have begun to brown at 37 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: the bottom and are tender. Serve with lemon wedges. 38 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 3: Autochokes are romana. They're the whole artichoke. I like to 39 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 3: put them over a sort of high heat so that 40 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 3: you get the crispiness on the outside. They almost I 41 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 3: always think they're kind of like eating candy because of 42 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 3: the caramelized nature the outer leaves. They're quite sweet in 43 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 3: a way. And when you go to rome which you 44 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 3: and I both love, and you go in the spring 45 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 3: to restaurants, they serve autichokes in so many different ways. 46 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 3: They boil them, they braize them. But the Romana are 47 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 3: these kind of slow cooked artichokes whole with the stem. 48 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 3: They're delicious. Are you vegetarian? 49 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 2: I'm vegetarian with a ten percent pescatarian. If it's really 50 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 2: great seafood. 51 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 3: And you don't eat dairy, right. 52 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: I don't eat dairy. Yeah, dairy's completely off, David. 53 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 3: I was just thinking that you are in Ghana. I'm 54 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 3: in London and I was thinking about the market in Ghana. 55 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 3: Are there artichokes? Are there huge amount of vegetables? Is 56 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 3: it seafood? Do you go to the market. What's it like? 57 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 2: Yes, you get a lot of fresh produce made by 58 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: very local producers. Most Genians go to markets still and 59 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 2: buy fresh produce every week every day. Yeah, it's an 60 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: amazing thing. I don't get to go as much as 61 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: I would love to, but whenever I've been, I've always 62 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: been sort of thrilled by the kind of variety and 63 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: the diversity. It's also on the coast, so there's excellent 64 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 2: fish here. Even though I'm a vegetarian, I you know, 65 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 2: when there's a fresh catch, I'm always tempted. The family's 66 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 2: always tempted. We always get fresh, fresh fish. 67 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 3: Is there one large market or are there lots all 68 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 3: over the city. 69 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: Or is it there's a main market, which is the 70 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: city market, but there are lots of small markets all 71 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 2: over the city, so there are local sort of little 72 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: stalls and places that you can get it. But there's 73 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: a main market called Makala Market in the center of 74 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: the city, which is the main hive of activity. What 75 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 2: are the vegetables that you The vegetables have different shapes 76 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: and colors, sometimes the same names, but very different shapes 77 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: and colors. Yeah, there's a kind of incredible, you know 78 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 2: that lovely kind of aroma of markets which you see 79 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 2: all over the world. There's a kind of African version 80 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: of that, which is dense and incredible colors and things 81 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 2: like that. Ashley, my wife is obsessed with the markets, 82 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: so she's always sneaking off to go look at what's new. 83 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 2: What's also wonderful about these markets is the way in 84 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 2: which you understand the seasonality of produce, which is so 85 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: clear here. Foods come in seasons and waves, and you know, 86 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 2: you suddenly get something and everybody wants it for the 87 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 2: next few months and then it's gone. 88 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 3: And then it's gone. That's something I think. 89 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: Something exactly and that is a new thing. You know. 90 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 2: London is something where you can get things all the 91 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 2: time and you forget about seeonality. Yeah, and that's something 92 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 2: we're really enjoying about our crowd that things come and 93 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 2: go depending on when they're in season. It's really beautiful. 94 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 3: What's it like there now? Is it warm? Is it bring? 95 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,119 Speaker 2: Yes? Yes? Because Ghana is on the equator more or less, 96 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 2: we're really always between something like twenty and thirty five 97 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 2: degrees At worst, it's like thirty five, but it's never 98 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 2: below twenty. You know, twenty. People are wearing jumpers here 99 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: because they think it's cold, and we're always laughing when 100 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 2: they say it's cold, Like, really, it's relative. 101 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: How does it feel being there? What does it feel like. 102 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 2: Now we've been here a couple of years and it's 103 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 2: it's still really lovely. We're really enjoying it very much. 104 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 2: It's a totally different atmosphere, but it's one that you know, 105 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 2: is really very special. Gettian's are very warm, so it's 106 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: a very kind of social culture that's very much about 107 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: you know, it takes a village to look after a family. 108 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: So there's a kind of friendliness that people you know, 109 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 2: have care for each other that I really really love. 110 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 2: We're still discovering it, you know, Acros the city we 111 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 2: know very well. The country. We're sort of traveling around 112 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 2: now to really understand. And it's wonderful to just to 113 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: go with the kids to you know, my father's ancestral 114 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 2: village or my mother's ancestral village and just to see 115 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 2: these places for them to see it. Yeah, it's kind 116 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 2: of great. 117 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,799 Speaker 3: Tell me the story of your family, your parents. 118 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, So Ghana, you know, a quick set of history. 119 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 2: Ghana was you know, colonial outpost. It was one of 120 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: the first Sub Saharan country to gain independence in the 121 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 2: late fifties fifty seven to be exact. And my father 122 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 2: was part of a sort of royal family in a 123 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 2: sort of a farming village called ad Also and the 124 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 2: then Prime minister President and Krumer sort of asked for 125 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 2: all the sort of learned characters to go into education 126 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 2: and go into government immediately. They were sort of brought 127 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 2: in when the British left. So my father was part 128 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 2: of that first wave of moving from the village and 129 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: coming to the city and you know, working in the 130 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 2: various departments and finally getting to be accepted in the 131 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 2: diplomatic corps. He met my mother in Akra. She was 132 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: also kind of came from the village and sort of 133 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 2: started working in the city. They met, they fell in love. 134 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 2: My father was good at his job, I guess, and 135 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: was quickly given the position of going on a posting 136 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 2: to East Africa, and that's where we were born. So 137 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,239 Speaker 2: myself and my brothers were all born in East Africa. 138 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 2: I was born in Tanzania, brothers born in Kenya and Uganda, 139 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 2: and then we came back to Ghana for a few years. 140 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 2: So I had a few years in Ghana and I 141 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: had wonderful sort of memories of just that time, and 142 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: it was the sort of childhood memory of you know, 143 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 2: my earliest home, you know, growing up with a co 144 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: coach garden. 145 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 3: What year was that, David, This would. 146 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 2: Have been in the seventies, in the early seventies, And 147 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: then we moved from there. My father then was reposted 148 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 2: to North Africa and the Middle East before we came 149 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: to England in the late seventies. 150 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 3: Food wise, it sounds very exotic to have had Tantana 151 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 3: and in North African food and Ghana before you were 152 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 3: sent into the food of England. I think hows childhood 153 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 3: memories of food stay with you forever, the food that 154 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 3: you go back to and that you love. 155 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I have a very eclectic sense of water 156 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 2: is possible as food and the different varieties, you know. 157 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: I still love East Indian sort of cuisine with the 158 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 2: way in which it's sort of you know, And that 159 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 2: was all East Africa. I guess that must have been, 160 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: you know, the sort of huge influence of the Indian 161 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 2: community on East End. 162 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 3: What is that like? Is it very spicy. 163 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 2: Massalas and spicy massalas and doughs and flavored meats and 164 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 2: fishes and vegetables. And then there's Ghana which is really 165 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: root vegetables and soups, really very soup based and fisial 166 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: meat if you had money. And then North Africa with 167 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 2: its incredible messes and bread, you know. And so I 168 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 2: had all that before coming to England and coming into 169 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: England just when that sort of beginning with the transformation 170 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 2: of you know, I sort of remember the Conrade Shop 171 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 2: and all these sort of places where you know, food 172 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 2: was suddenly in discovering Italian food in London. That was 173 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: kind of the moment when it was like, oh my god, 174 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 2: you know, and the transformation of Italian food into English 175 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 2: food and the sort of love affair that started with 176 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 2: that which led me to you when you yes, and 177 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 2: you know as my favorite restaurant in London of course. 178 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 3: But did you have home cooking? Did your mother cook, 179 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 3: did your father cook? Or do you remember her being 180 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 3: in the kitchen? 181 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 2: Yes? 182 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 3: I always think of somebody that really loves food and 183 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 3: wants to know what the next meal is going to be. 184 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 3: You stayed with us. What are we eating? 185 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: Yeah? 186 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 3: What are we having? And so as a child, was 187 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 3: your mother was that part of her love and attention 188 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 3: to you? 189 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 2: My mother did cook, and we were three boys, and 190 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: she was very determined that we would from a very 191 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 2: early age understand cooking and be in love with it. 192 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: So I think I remember being like ten eleven and 193 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 2: my mother when we came to England, you know, her 194 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 2: going all right, now you're going to learn how to 195 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 2: make food for yourself. So she's sort of frog marches 196 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 2: in the kitchen and just started to really unfold the 197 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 2: idea of heat and cooking and doing things and to 198 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 2: feel really comfortable. And she made us watch her do things, 199 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: so all three of us know how to cook, which 200 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: was something that she really instilled in us, as in, 201 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 2: I don't mean that we're chefs, but in any way, 202 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 2: but we're comfortable good cook. 203 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 3: Now you're your food, You're good, you're a good cut. 204 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 2: We know we were comfortable with the sort of you know, frying, boiling, 205 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 2: baking sort of things, and that came from her. And 206 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 2: you know, I think because we traveled so much, she 207 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 2: always made us Ganian food and it was a kind 208 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,079 Speaker 2: of constant for her. So she always unfolded a kind 209 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: of weekly menu, actually very rarely varied, but it was 210 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 2: a kind of like weekends we had these soups and 211 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: these things called fufu, and then week with what food 212 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: is that kind of yam and cassava sort of dumpling. 213 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 2: It's like it tastes like nyoki, but a gigantic nyoki 214 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 2: with soups and fishes and meats. Poured on it, and 215 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: that was the kind of weekend and special. But then 216 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 2: in the week you would have things like jeelof which 217 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 2: is rice with tomato bays and vegetables and you know, 218 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 2: foods in it and vegetables, et cetera. And she'd sort 219 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 2: of be very methodical about it. And I used to 220 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 2: at some point I used to think, God, can we 221 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 2: shift these things? You know? And now like I do 222 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 2: it with my kids. It's something that we do. You do, yeah, 223 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 2: and it's really quite beautiful. 224 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 3: Did your mother ever cook British food? Machine interested in that. 225 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 2: Once in a while she'd make something. Yeah, I mean 226 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 2: she'd make a roast for you know, at Christmas, we 227 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: had a hybrid, so it was like the sort of 228 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 2: you know, we in a family loved pies, so apple 229 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 2: pies and things like that would be made by my mum. 230 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 2: So there were certain things that were treats from the 231 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 2: world that we were in that it was part of 232 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: the sort of the thing. But you know, we were 233 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 2: at school, so we were having school meals and so 234 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 2: she was like, Okay, you're getting English food. I want 235 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 2: to make sure that you still understand the food of. 236 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 3: Your Yeah, yeah, do you cook now. 237 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: You know, I love I love cooking. I don't get 238 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 2: as much chance to cook as I would like to. Ashley, 239 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 2: my wife loves to kind of cook, so she wants 240 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: to lead that I do. On the weekends, I have 241 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: one day where I cook for the entire family. So 242 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 2: I have a Sunday a Sunday sort of meal that 243 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: I always make. And you know what is it? But 244 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 2: you cook, it's just vegetables and a kind of pasta 245 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 2: and bits. So I kind of make a kind of 246 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 2: a hybrid, but it's really I kind of get market vegetables. 247 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: What I do is I kind of I finish off 248 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 2: the week whatever's left over, and I kind of make 249 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 2: it into this flavored sort of stew pasta thing with 250 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 2: other sort of supports. 251 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 3: How do the kids come and cook with you? Do 252 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 3: they cook? 253 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 2: Yes? They do. Now. They love coming in and wanting 254 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 2: to get involved. And it's always just green vegetables, every 255 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 2: green that we can find. So we're looking at peas 256 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 2: and cabbage and broccoli, and you know, we're boiling them 257 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 2: and we're sort of there's this calenders that are used 258 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 2: in Ghana, so we then sort of crushed them in 259 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 2: the calendar to make a paste green and then we 260 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 2: add flavors to it and stuff. It's become a little thing. 261 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 3: We're trying to think how we met, and I think, well, 262 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 3: you could tell the story, but wasn't it I thought 263 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 3: it was that Richard was so so impressed and so 264 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 3: in all of your work. I don't think he taught you, 265 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 3: but you knew him when you were a student or 266 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 3: was it after the graduate? Oh? 267 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, Richard was an icon forever. But he really entered 268 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 2: my life sort of directly as a person when I 269 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 2: started my career sort of sort of early two thousand 270 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 2: and I made this house called the Electra House and 271 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: that's right, yeah, And it was published in Domus and 272 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 2: he saw it and he really loved it and called 273 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 2: me to talk to him about it. And that's I 274 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 2: think that's where we first met, Ruth. That was around 275 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 2: that time, and it's an incredible journey. 276 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 3: We met through architecture and food. That connection has lasted 277 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 3: through many years, and it was a period it seemed 278 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 3: that you were traveling an enormous amount fabulous places and 279 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 3: building buildings everywhere. Do you think about what the food 280 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 3: will be like in that city? Does it? Do you 281 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 3: start thinking where will I eat. 282 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think I've practically designed you know, I 283 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 2: literally the food where I go to eat is intimately 284 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 2: linked with the places that I'm actually working, and what 285 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 2: I like to kind of have there is very important. 286 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 2: When I travel, It's not about anything but just having 287 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 2: to find places where the food is hard still and 288 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: that the food reflects something that really gives you a 289 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 2: sense of, you know, comfort where you are. It is 290 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 2: so important to me. I just detest traveling and eating 291 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: generic food. I really like to feel like I've sort 292 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 2: of arrived somewhere in that that food is part of 293 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: the place and I'm sort of engaging in that. Something 294 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 2: that's really nice and gonea now is it's all about 295 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 2: chefs making food in their homes, especially during this COVID 296 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 2: time for just like for just two or three people, 297 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 2: and that's been kind of amazing to experience. You just 298 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: get like half a dozen people invited, and it's in 299 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 2: the garden because the weather is so great. It's socially 300 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 2: distanced in the garden. You know, there's a chef called Selassian. 301 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 2: She has a kind of pop up Comadounia, and she's 302 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 2: doing incredible things with ganny and food, so she's been 303 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 2: a kind of whenever she does a real run to 304 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 2: go eat. So this idea of like eating in a 305 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 2: place where you know, where somebody really you know, I 306 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 2: think the best way to describe is that where the 307 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 2: food is hard, you know, it's not just product, not 308 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 2: just stuff, like exactly what you do. You've sort of 309 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 2: taught the world that Ruthie and I think it's it's 310 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 2: going around. I see versions of you in the younger 311 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 2: generations all around as they try to really connect with 312 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 2: food in a much more powerful way. 313 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 3: I think that is, you know, what does it mean 314 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 3: to go to a restaurant? What does it mean to 315 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 3: go with your friends? And something we've all missed enormously, 316 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 3: certainly when people have come back to the River Cafe 317 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 3: having been away for so long, it's quite emotion being 318 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 3: in a room with people. 319 00:15:58,560 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 5: Do that. 320 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 3: Is there a certain restaurant you like or don't like 321 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 3: it that you feel comfortable in? 322 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 5: Yeah? 323 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 2: I'm very specific about the kinds of places that I 324 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 2: like and don't like. 325 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go for the positive. What do you like 326 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 3: in a restaurant? 327 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: I like it to have a certain kind of authenticity, 328 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 2: to feel like it's not trying to bamboozle me with effects, 329 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 2: but it's confident in itself and it's trying to reflect 330 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 2: a little bit of what its culture is. 331 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 3: And what about designing, Because you're in art, you've designed, Yeah, 332 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 3: public buildings, restaurants. 333 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 2: Have you designed that you I haven't designed a restaurant yet, 334 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 2: but I'm right now designing the restaurant for Princeton Art Museum. 335 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 2: That's that's probably the closest I'm getting to my first 336 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: I have a restaurant. Actually, ironically, do you. 337 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 3: Know what it will be like the restaurant in the museum. 338 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's trying to really the things I said have 339 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 2: a certain kind of quality that has a certain sort 340 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: of openness. Is kind of has its own terrace, so 341 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 2: it's open onto a really beautiful terrace that overlooks the grounds. 342 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 2: Trying to make it feel not in any way that 343 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: it's exclusive, but it has a kind of egalitarian quality. 344 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: But it's really good quality as a kind of quality 345 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: in the kind of pieces that are around you, the 346 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 2: things that you touch, the things that you kind of 347 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 2: got next to. But it also kind of honest the 348 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 2: idea of food that it has a certain ritual quality 349 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 2: to it as well. I think that that's really lovely 350 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,719 Speaker 2: in a restaurant that it feels like a ritual, very 351 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 2: important social ritual. It's not just totally casual. So it's 352 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 2: a kind of fine blend between being you know, somehow 353 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 2: serious but not looking too serious. 354 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 3: What's the project you're most excited about right now? 355 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 2: Gosh, we're doing projects. I love what I'm doing. The 356 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: Studio Museum in Harlem, I think is a very important 357 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: project for me. The Abu Dhabi Abrahamic Center is a 358 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 2: very important one. Building the National Cathedral for Ghana is 359 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 2: really like a dream. You know. It makes me remind 360 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 2: my father, who passed away five years ago. So being 361 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 2: back in his country and building a national monument for 362 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,239 Speaker 2: this country is a great sort of humbling honor. So 363 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 2: there's some of the big highlights right now. 364 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 3: So, David, you've just won the Riba Gold Medal, and 365 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 3: I think about how brilliant that is for you, for 366 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 3: the people who've worked with you, for the work that you've done. 367 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 3: Thank you your speech and what you'll say and who 368 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 3: will speak with you. But I'm also thinking about what 369 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 3: we're going to eat afterwards when we have the party 370 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 3: for you, And so do you have some thoughts about 371 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 3: what you'd like to eat. Should we do a menu 372 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 3: right now? Do you have your piece of paper and. 373 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 2: Pen ruthy, I would be thrilled if you would design 374 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 2: a menu with me. 375 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 3: Okay, well, let's see. We're here. It's in May, isn't it. 376 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,479 Speaker 3: It's the end of May. So that will be a 377 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 3: fantastic talking about the way you were talking about the 378 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 3: arrival and the departure of vegetables, and so the arrival 379 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 3: of May couldn't be a better season. They'll be beautiful melons, 380 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 3: they'll be asparagus, they'll be peas and green beans, and so, 381 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 3: in a way, I think we could start out with 382 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 3: a long table full of antipasity and vegetables. 383 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 2: We could have. 384 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 3: Asparagus with pramesan cheese and butter, and we could have 385 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 3: a zucchini that have been boiled and then marinated with mint, 386 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 3: and so we could start with that, which will get 387 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 3: us all into a very good mood. And then we 388 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 3: could have because I know you love tomato pasta. 389 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 2: Don't you, Yes, I do, one of my favorites. 390 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 3: But then you know, maybe that would be a time, 391 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 3: as you said, you save it for special occasions and 392 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 3: when it's particularly good. We could have fish, which we 393 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 3: could have a whole sea bass baked in salt. We 394 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 3: could have we could just decide a few days before 395 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 3: within what sea bass or turbot or if possible, wild salmon. 396 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: I'm just drooling to my mind is a flame with images. 397 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 3: And then let's see what else. What would you like 398 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 3: for dessert? 399 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 2: So I'm blackness in tolerance that you remember it. So 400 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 2: it has to be non dairy, if that's possible. 401 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 3: Okay, would you like a sorbet? 402 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 2: Sorbets are always great? 403 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 3: What food do you like? 404 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, it's from lemons to I'm just a sorbet fan. 405 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 2: Sounds amazing, sounds amazing. 406 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,959 Speaker 3: So we're talking about food. It's memory. It's very moving 407 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 3: to hear you say, how many years later, through all 408 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 3: the travels and all the work that you have memories 409 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 3: of your mother and meal times with your family, but 410 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 3: also being in the kitchen and the Ghanian and the 411 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 3: Tanzanian and the Northern African food. And now your children 412 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 3: were born in London, but they're living in Ghana. So 413 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 3: when you think if we were doing this interview with 414 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 3: them in thirty years time, what do you think their 415 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 3: memories will be a food. 416 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 2: I think that I would love for them to feel 417 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 2: really connected to global cuisine, that they know the kind 418 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: of the different foods of the world in different parts 419 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 2: of the world, in different places, but they also understand 420 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 2: a strong part of their heritage, that they understand food 421 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 2: from West Africa, from Ghana specifically, and that they're able 422 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 2: to bridge those worlds, and that they remember, you know, 423 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,719 Speaker 2: making food with us in the kitchen here in Ghana 424 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 2: and making amazing dishes and tasting new things and new 425 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 2: fruit and new things here that really trigger memories for 426 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 2: them about their lives. 427 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 3: There. You are, I don't know how many miles aways 428 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 3: from London, it's. 429 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 5: About six thousand miles, so six thousand miles away, and 430 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 5: we're talking about what's brought us clothes together in this 431 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 5: conversation is food and architecture and family and parents and 432 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 5: memories and childhood and our own children. 433 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,239 Speaker 3: We give food for love, we give for caring. We 434 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 3: eat food together, and we also eat food for comfort. 435 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 3: What would you say your comfort food. 436 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 2: Is nothing grand. It goes back to memories of my mother, 437 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 2: but it really is. It's soups. It's vegetable soups that 438 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: my mother used to make I sort of make versions 439 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 2: of it myself, and it's funny. Being in the heat here, 440 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 2: I would have thought I would not have so many suits, 441 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 2: but I've actually become even more of a soup consumer. 442 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 2: And then she used to make this wonderful treat, which 443 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 2: in Ghana is called the buff roads. Essentially, it's a 444 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 2: doughnut of sort, but you'd make it yourself with a 445 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 2: kind of nutmeg and you know, flavor to it, and 446 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 2: it's sort of fried deep fried. But it's a lovely 447 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 2: treat and it's dangerous. It's a very sweet. Yeah. These 448 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 2: are two comfort foods that, yeah, things I love. 449 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 3: And you're my comfort and I love you. 450 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 2: Thank you, David, thank you, love you so much. 451 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 3: I love you too. 452 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 4: To visit the online shop of The River Cafe, go 453 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 4: to shop the River Care dot co dot uk. 454 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: Rivercafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and Adamized Studios. 455 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 456 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.