1 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, Hello, friends and neighbors. Thank you for tuning in. 2 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: We'd like to start today's show with a question, what 3 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: was the first museum you went to? Or, if you prefer, 4 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,959 Speaker 1: what's the weirdest exhibit you have ever seen in a museum? 5 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: Are you asking me? Or is this for the are 6 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: we pulling the audience? Is for everyone? We have to 7 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: wait for the results to come in. Well, we'll have 8 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: to wait for you all listening. But i'd like to 9 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: hear from you now. I'm Ben. You're no Thank you, Ben, 10 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: Thank you for introducing me. I appreciate it. The first, 11 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: that's the first, is that first first. I feel like 12 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: we're getting more organic with with our intros, almost like 13 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: we're getting a little familiar. It's like it's like we've 14 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: done a few of these. It's like we're we're becoming veterans. 15 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: Which funny story, did you notice that in the initial 16 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: promos for this show we're referred to as veteran podcasters. 17 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: Veteran podcasters that means we've been to podcast war. That's true. 18 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: We came out changed. But the only way we got 19 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: through that, and the only way we get through this show, 20 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: of course, is with our super producer Casey Pegrom that 21 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: part of the intro We're always going to keep. I'll 22 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: never get tired of it, and I mean that with 23 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: my whole entire heart. Speaking of whole entire hearts, I 24 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: will answer real quick your question. Um, I recently went 25 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: to a museum that had that was by far the 26 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: most bizarre and amazing display of stuff I'd ever experienced. 27 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: A place called the Museum of Death in Los Angeles, 28 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: was also one in New Orleans, and it has everything 29 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: from preserve herved human hearts you know, in glass jars, 30 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: to fetuses. There's a whole section on um embalming and 31 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: funereal kind of relics from you know, the way they 32 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: used to do things back in olden times. Spoiler alert 33 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: wasn't pretty Anna. An array of grizzly, grizzly crime scene photos, 34 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: the likes of which I've never seen anywhere in my 35 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: entire life, just the stuff of nightmares. Follow up question, Yes, 36 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: do they have a gift shop? Oh? Big time. I 37 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: bought a coffee mug. And one of the things they 38 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,119 Speaker 1: also had in this museum was a whole room devoted 39 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: to taxidermy, in particular a section with beloved pets that 40 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: had been taxidermized texidermy. That seems better. That seems more 41 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: right text boom. If you want to be cool, what 42 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: about you? Ben? Thanks for asking, man. Yeah, I love museums. 43 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: It's no secret. Anybody who interacts in the world of 44 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: social media and finds me on there will typically see that. 45 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: Whenever I travel to a new city, the first thing 46 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: I want to do is find a museum. And we 47 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: are very fortunate, you and Casey and I altogether, because 48 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: the United States is chock full of fantastic museums, just 49 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: lousy with them, just lousy, rife with them. There should 50 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: be a museum about museums. That's very that's way too matic. 51 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: You immediately get swallowed up into some kind of time 52 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: space wormhole. So what would the gift shops sell? Would 53 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: they sell gift shops? I can't Even then, nol is 54 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: shaking his head. Here, the Carnegie Museum of Natural History 55 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: is the setting for our episode today, or at least 56 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: our starting point. And have you been to the Carnegie 57 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: have not? I am shamefully under museum. I've been a 58 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: handful of cool art museums, but not very many natural 59 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: history museums. I've been the one in New York. I've 60 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: been to the mat Obviously. There's a natural history museum 61 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: here in Atlanta, fern Bank, fern Bank that I have 62 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: never been to. Spoiler alert. We might take a trip 63 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: there one day for a little extra credit. Yes, behind 64 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: the scenes, I have been cajoling Casey and Noll to 65 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: come check out fern Bank. I have nothing but good 66 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: things to say about it. Do they have a mammoth? 67 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: They do not, as far as I know now, I'm 68 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: not going. Okay, well, I will text you pictures. Great. Great. 69 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: They also have an im X. I don't want to. 70 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to experience fomo, right, right, especially at 71 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: a museum museum. Fomo was the worst. So the Carnegie 72 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: Museum of Natural History has a wealth of exhibits, and 73 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: this is a story prestigious institution. One of their exhibits 74 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: is called Lion Attacking a Dromedary. Yeah, and you know 75 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: it's funny. I've seen they call him dioramas, which I 76 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: think is interesting. And I think of a diorama. I 77 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: think of the out of a shoe box and cut 78 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: out little you know, the baby Jesus or something. But no, 79 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: these this is a diorama in that it's posed taxidermy 80 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: creatures in very dramatic throes of action. Right, this one 81 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: is no exception. It is a drama dairy, a camel 82 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: um and a lion that is just like, it's really 83 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: quite remarkable. There's a dead female lion on the ground 84 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: inexplicably that don't you don't really understand what happened to 85 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: the drama dairy, not to death because the stomp it 86 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,119 Speaker 1: more likely stomp it, I guess, yeah, I guess they 87 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: know they've got some stomping power. But the lion is 88 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: just on it just set upon this drama dairy that is, 89 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: you know, just in these throes of agony, its head 90 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: you know, rearing back, its teeth exposed, and it just 91 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: looks really pained. And then on top of this drama 92 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: dairy is a a rider, right, Ben, Absolutely, so, this 93 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: is a snapshot. It's as though you're viewing a three 94 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: D photograph, a tableau. We were entering in media arrests 95 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: in the middle of the story, and there is a 96 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: rider here, a man who is riding the camel being 97 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: attacked by this lion, possibly an act of vengeance on 98 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: the male lions part because you'll notice when you pull 99 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: up the photograph the man is holding a knife in 100 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: his right hand as he leans away from the attacking 101 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: male lion. And just to get this out of the way, 102 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: we know that taxidermy can seem a little controversial or 103 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: even creepy to some people a little bit, and that's understandable. 104 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: We know that the animals in this are taxidermy. They 105 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: were once living and now they have been transformed into 106 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: these sculptures. But there was a strange, gruesome twist that 107 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: people discovered after this diorama was made, and it's the following. 108 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: It turns out the rider in this diorama is not 109 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: entirely artificial. Yeah, I mean, that's certainly. The implication here 110 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: is that, okay, the lions taxidermy. The lion, as says 111 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: the dramedary, is, but the guy on top is, you know, 112 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: presumed to be a mannequin of some sort. Mostly, Yeah, 113 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: that's true, except when you take a good look at 114 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: this guy's face. Very expertly rendered, might i add by 115 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: French taxidermist and naturalist Eduard verreau Um in the mid 116 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: eight hundreds, very very amazing attention to detail on this 117 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: guy's face. But when you look at the teeth, it's 118 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: something about it. It's a little a little off or 119 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,679 Speaker 1: maybe a little too on. Yeah, and I like I 120 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: I like the phrase a little too on the teeth 121 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: give it away. And in the early nineteen nineties, conservation 122 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: records indicated that the conservators of the museum and of 123 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: the Peace said, wait a second, I know my mannequin teeth, 124 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: and these teeth are too real. Yeah, there's an amazing 125 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: photograph of it up close on a National Geographic article 126 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: called a hundred and fifty year old Diorama surprises scientists 127 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: with human remains, because yes, the basis for this mannequin 128 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: head was in fact a human skull of undetermined or 129 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: at least quite difficult to determine origins, and they found 130 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: this out after doing a CT scan of the thing. 131 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: So basically the skull was the basis. Everything was molded 132 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: around the skull to get that shape, and then the 133 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: teeth were laid bare, you know, like those of those 134 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: are the teeth. And you know, if you look at 135 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 1: this close up, you can really tell, Yes, you can 136 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: really tell, because the face itself, which has been constructed, 137 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, from the skull, the face obviously builds 138 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: on anatomical patterns, muscles, the eyes are clearly fake, right. 139 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: You get that it's supposed to be a person, but 140 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: you don't think it's a corpse until you see the teeth, 141 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: which are weathered, there stained, there some gaps in there, 142 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: their their ground flat in some places. And now that 143 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: we have the benefit of knowing what we're getting into, 144 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: it clearly sticks out. But we have to wonder where 145 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: we strolling through the Carnegie Museum if we would have 146 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: noticed this, would we be the kind of people who 147 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: stop and say, whoa, those teeth are too real? I 148 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: doubt it. It took an expert, And like you mentioned earlier, Ben, 149 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: it wasn't until the early nineties that conservation records showed 150 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: that some of the folks involved in you know, preserving 151 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: these artifacts did suspect that the teeth were in fact real, 152 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: just the teeth. But it wasn't until just a couple 153 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: of years ago in when it was taken off exhibit 154 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: to be you know, cleaned up and restored and also researched, 155 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: they discovered that it was in fact a human skull 156 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: and not just human teeth. So, um, there's a really, 157 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: really problematic us story that led up to this discovery. Um, 158 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: and it all starts with a family. The Verreau family 159 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: need a storied taxidermy family. That's a thing. Yeah, that's 160 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 1: the real thing. And they formed a family group, you know. No, 161 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: I think it's time for Casey on the Case. Guys. 162 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I appreciate being called in for these French pronunciations, 163 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: but you really could have worked this one out yourself. 164 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: It's just the maison vow and that concludes our episode 165 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: of Casey on the Case. I would have said the 166 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: Mason Veras. We are very lucky that Casey is. I know, 167 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: I know. If only you are an Englishman and could 168 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: tell us how to pronounce Katesby, Katesby could have saved 169 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: me an embarrassing email. So you have to wonder also 170 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: whether the researchers felt embarrassed when they discovered this. You 171 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: mentioned the CT scan and now we're diving into the 172 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: history here. So Noel, tell us a little bit more 173 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: about this strange family. Yeah, I've made fools of ourselves 174 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: asking Casey to pronounce Maison Verreaux. So I'm gonna go 175 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: ahead and just go out on a limb and really 176 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: try my damnedest with these French names. Casey. If you 177 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: feel the need to chime in and school me, go 178 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: right ahead. You can call your own Casey on the 179 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: case segment, the Casey on Nole's case. But the Verreaux family, 180 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 1: the Verreau clan, was made up of Jules, Jean Baptiste 181 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: Eduard and Alexis Verreaux, and they were all how to 182 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: do casey. I'll allow it. Okay, Casey didn't have to 183 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: get on Noel's case, so we're good there. Yeah. But 184 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 1: they were all the sons of this really well renowned 185 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: Parisian taxidermist by the name of Jacques Philippe Verreaux, who 186 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: founded that house of Verreaux, the Mason Verreaux Taxidermy Company, 187 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: and it was a big deal. Yeah, established in eighteen 188 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: o three. This is the earliest known company that dealt 189 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: in objects of natural history. And they funded collection expeditions 190 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: across the globe, so they would send agents and send, 191 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: you know, members of the Arreau family out to places 192 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: that most of Western Europe was unfamiliar with to collect specimens, specimens, specimens. Yeah, 193 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: and that's going to get really creepy really quick. So 194 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: trigger warning if you don't like the idea of taxidermy humans, 195 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: this is probably not the episode for you. This does 196 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: also involve quite a lot of institutionalized racism. Oh yeah, yeah, 197 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: that's a trigger warning for that too. So let's set 198 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: the stage. As we said, they're traveling around the globe. 199 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: In eighteen thirty, while traveling in what we now today 200 00:12:54,400 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: know as Botswana, Jules Viaw witnessed the burial of a warrior. Yeah, 201 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: he was about twenty seven years old presumably when he died. 202 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: I wasn't able to find a cause of death, but 203 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: he did die around eighteen thirty, UM, and the Arrow 204 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: brothers attended his burial. And you see, you might say 205 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: to yourself, oh that's nice. You know, they're they're participating 206 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: in the culture that there trying to capitalize on. But wait, yeah, 207 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: because what happened later that night They stole the body. 208 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: They they they grave Doug. Yeah, they functioned as resurrection men, 209 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: you know, which is such a That was actually a 210 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: trivia question last night, UM, where we played trivia resurrection 211 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: man that the question was actually what is the less 212 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: pleasant name for the old timing practice of resurrection men 213 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: that would be frowned upon today because resurrection men implies 214 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: that year it's like a profession. You're like doing a 215 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: service of some kind. You're right, it sounds a lot 216 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: better than Grave Robert professional defiler. Yes. Yes, So when 217 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: Jules sneaks in to the burial site, he steals the skin, 218 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: the skull, and several bones. He intended to ship this 219 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: body back to France. He prepared and preserved it using 220 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: the tricks of his trade, his craft h and he 221 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: augmented it with metal wire, wooden boards, and he also 222 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: stuffed it. Yeah, there's a really grizzly quote from this 223 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: fantastic New York Times article called Africa rejoices as a 224 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: wandering soul finds rest. That's sort of a prelude to 225 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: a happy ending that we'll talk about a little bit. 226 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: But apparently, um according to a guide, a taxidermy guide 227 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: published in the eighteen thirties, in order to properly preserve 228 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: a dead human quote, it is necessary to make a 229 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: circular incision around the fingertips and peel back the skin 230 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: as if it were a glove. Right m hm. And 231 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: that's uh, that is a genuine thing. This is a 232 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: very nuts and bolts, step by step process. And so 233 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: they bring this corpse, the stolen corpse, back to France, 234 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: to Paris specifically, and they also bring a lot of 235 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: other stuff with them, like a metric crab, ton of 236 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: specimens um from some estimates in the neighborhood of you know, 237 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: several thousand individual creatures right right, mostly animals except for this, uh, 238 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: this one stolen body. And when they brought it back, 239 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: they didn't immediately showcase this. This was just included in 240 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: their package. And actually, as we found, they left it 241 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: in their shop for a while. Isn't that correct? That 242 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: is absolutely correct. Then they had it propped up as 243 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,239 Speaker 1: some kind of maccabre display um. It fitted with feathers 244 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: and you know, made out to be this sort of 245 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: example of this native kind of like a weird trophy 246 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: or something. It's really pretty vile, right, And there was 247 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: a lot of othering that was very common in scientific 248 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: circles of the day, So to them, taking and preserving 249 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: the corpse of a human being was essentially no different 250 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: from taking and preserving the corpse of an exotic animal. 251 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: The weird thing about this is that it was pretty common, 252 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: almost a status symbol at the time, to have taxidermied 253 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: animals of course you've seen like the hunting lodges of 254 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: the rich and powerful with you know, just dozens of 255 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: zebra heads and elephant heads and all this kind of 256 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not gonna like dang anybody's hobby or whatever, 257 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: but there does come a point where it feels a 258 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: little gross to me personally and in a little bit. 259 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: I'm all about hunting for meat and feeding your family 260 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: and using every part of the animal that stuff. But 261 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: when you see pictures of these CEOs, you know, holding 262 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: up elephant tusks and given the thumbs up that all right, 263 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: now I'm grandstanding, all right, let me get off my soapbox. 264 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: But they were celebrated, these Verroe brothers, right. The climate 265 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 1: in France when they returned was one of jubilation. They 266 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: were welcome back with open arms. In fact, there was 267 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: a report in La Constitutional from November fifte eighteen thirty 268 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: one that described their return in glowing detail, calling them 269 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: young compatriots of France, and you know, just really a 270 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: lot of patriotic fervor surrounding their return. And the the 271 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: La Constitutional article described their most shall we say, rare 272 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: specimen as such and this is hang onto your hats folks, 273 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: but their greatest curiosity is an individual of the nation 274 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: of be Juanas. This man preserved by the means by 275 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: which naturalists prepare their specimens and re constitute their form, 276 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 1: and so to speak, their inert life. He is of 277 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: small stature, black of skin, his head covered by short, 278 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: wooly and curly hair, armed with arrows and a lance, 279 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: clothes and antelope skin with a bag mark, but the 280 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: bad question mark made of bush pig, full of small 281 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: glass beads, seeds, and of small bones. So with great acclaim, 282 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 1: the Verreaux outfit returns to Paris. They display this body 283 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 1: in their shop and eventually someone says, you know what, 284 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: I like this so much that I'm going to buy it. 285 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: And that was a Spanish nationalist named Fransic Darter. And 286 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 1: we don't have the exact amount that he paid for this, 287 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: but we do know we do have a pretty solid 288 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: timeline of what happened afterwards, because this naturalist said, you 289 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: know what, I'm not going to take this and just 290 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: set it up in my living room. I'm going to 291 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 1: take it to the global stage. And that is how 292 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: this poor unfortunate soul ended up being displayed at the 293 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: Barcelona World Exhibition. Or should I say Bathlona you should? Yes, yes, Uh, 294 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: we're making some jokes, but this is very, very troubly. 295 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: It's all I can do does not be completely bummed 296 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: out by this. But again, there is a happy ending, 297 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: wait for it. We're getting there, it's on the way. 298 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: So Darter didn't just buy this one corpse. He had 299 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: an extensive natural history collection, and when he passed away, 300 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: his collection was sent to a museum. That's right. It 301 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,479 Speaker 1: was the Museum of Natural History in Banjols, Spain. So 302 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 1: it was on display from nineteen sixteen at this museum 303 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: to nineteen nine seven, when a controversy finally arose. Yeah, 304 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: I mean one that had been brewing for some time. 305 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if we mentioned this, but I read 306 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: somewhere that they actually painted the skin of this person 307 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: a darker shade of black. Right, Yeah, it is unfortunately, 308 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: absolutely true, and it was. It kind of became this 309 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: sign of you know, there's a history of Spanish people 310 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 1: exploiting and enslaving Africans I mean Western Europe of course, 311 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: of course, of course, But I'm just saying like this 312 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: was a problematic thing on many levels, on a humanitarian level, 313 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: but also on a ideological level and what it represented, 314 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: and it just was not a good look. And yet 315 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: this museum constantly fought back against giving up this individuals 316 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: remains to its home country for a proper burial. Yeah, 317 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: there's an excellent article on the BBC the traces this 318 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: titled the Man Stuffed and displayed like a wild animal, 319 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: and in this they detail how, after Asnell said, incredibly 320 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: strong resistance from the museum, this body was finally returned. 321 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: And this didn't happen until what was October five, two 322 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: thousand or so. And when this warrior was returned, they 323 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 1: were to lay in state for a day in the 324 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: capital and ten thousand people visited to pay their last respects. 325 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: Interesting side note here, Noel, it was a Christian burial. Really, 326 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: I didn't get to that tell me. More so, the 327 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: priest who was conducting this said, in the spirit of 328 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, who also suffered, you know, we're gonna lay 329 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: this man to rest finally, And the Foreign minister at 330 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: the time said quote, we are prepared to forgive, but 331 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: we must not forget the crimes of the past so 332 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 1: that we don't repeat them. That is interesting, how do 333 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: you feel about that though being a Christian burial, given 334 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: the background, and given the brutal nature of of this 335 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: uprooting of this person's remains, and then to ultimately have 336 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: their burial will be something completely unrelated to what they 337 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: likely believed in their in life. Yeah, we have to 338 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: ask ourselves these questions. You know, was that in part 339 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: of political play by the government of the time. Was 340 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: that a true, sincere effort, And you know, if it was, 341 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: if it was a true and sincere and genuine effort 342 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: to pay respects, then I'm all for it, although it 343 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: is riddled with problems. And here's what happened though, So 344 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: you may have thought that we already got to the 345 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: the good ending, the light at the end of the tunnel. 346 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: I thought we had, did you you gotta twist, you 347 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: gotta Chamolean twist. There's a little Shamalaman Malonian twist. There's 348 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: a little bit I'm talking about. Yeah, there's a little 349 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: bit of an Act three twist here a to the burial. 350 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: And after Latian state, the grave was neglected for several 351 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: years and the field that was around it was being 352 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: used as a football pitch. I'm sorry, coming again as 353 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: the people were playing football. Okay, I got you football 354 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: pitch and the botswan In government later thankfully went back 355 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: and restored the site and enhanced it. They built a 356 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: visitors center and explanatory signs. As of now, it is 357 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: still not known what this man's name was, exactly where 358 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: he came from, what his life was like. Yeah, and 359 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: and to get back to what started the story with 360 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: the the diorama of the drama dairy right in the 361 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: Carnegie Museum, the diorama Drama. Yeah. This this all comes 362 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: back to something that you mentioned been an interesting angle, 363 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,479 Speaker 1: which is museum ethics. There are still struggles between the 364 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: governments of the places of origin of many artifacts and 365 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 1: the museums that hold them in their collections. And it's 366 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: not cut and dry. It's not all is like a 367 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: matter of just saying, hey that we should have that 368 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: in our country and instead you know, mr Mr Carnegie 369 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: or whatever, you know. But with the remains, that is 370 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 1: probably a little more cut and dry, and um, you know, 371 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: the museum will certainly have been willing to return that 372 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: skull if they knew where to send it. But that's 373 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: the rob right right, That's that's the problem, that's the 374 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: heart of the matter. Where should we say the skull 375 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: of the matter. Other than knowing that this diorama was 376 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,479 Speaker 1: built by Edward Arrow in the mid eight hundreds, we 377 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: don't know the origin of the skull. We don't know 378 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: who it came from. We don't know where they lived. 379 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: We know very very little about them. I would tell 380 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: you one thing we do know is those of a 381 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: rose we're not cool. Oh creepy, creepy. Have you seen 382 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: the movie Taxidermia, Ben? I have not. Should I check 383 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: it out? I think you should. It's it's really it's 384 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: quite disturbing. It's it's a dif seen it, Casey. It's 385 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: like a Hungarian movie. It's a Hungarian movie. There's one 386 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: character who shoots flames out of his penis, and um, 387 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 1: different you know, odd characters. Over time, it's it traces 388 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 1: the lineage of this family um and one of them 389 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: becomes a taxidermist. And I'm gonna spoiler alert real quick. 390 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: See it. This isn't really doesn't really matter. It's more 391 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: just a to blow. The guy builds a machine that 392 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: allows him to taxidermy himself. Finally, yeah, this is fiction, 393 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: right established this, folks. What gave it away was that 394 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: the flames out of them. I don't know, man, It's 395 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: a it's a wild and fascinating world in which we live. 396 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: So check out taxidermy if you want to. You know, 397 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 1: if this got wet your appetite for creepy things, it's 398 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: it's it's worth a look. It's worth a look. And 399 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: most importantly, this controversy continues to date in museums across 400 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: the planet. We're going to wrap it up. We hope 401 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: you into Oh so close. No, it's time, gentlemen. What 402 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: time is for the quizter? Of course, the mischievous, mirthful 403 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 1: man that is the Quister. Oh my goodness, you were. 404 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: You were in high spirits. I've won so many times. 405 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: I do not freaking know what to do. Yes, yes, Quister. 406 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: So this is the This is the segment where our 407 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: long standing nemesis of the show, the Quister, Jonathan Strickland, 408 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: comes to test our knowledge of real versus fake history? 409 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: Are they the same person? Jonathan Strickland and the Quister 410 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: is a sort of a Superman Clark can It's a 411 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,719 Speaker 1: vent diagram that has a lot of overlap. I got you, yes, 412 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: good enough? Good to know who to hate? It's just No, 413 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: it's clear You've been sending me little messages on on 414 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: our messaging system the entire day, and this was very 415 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: clear that I need to I need to maybe ease 416 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: off a bit. That's the message getting. Now, this is 417 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: news to me. What are you doing? Man? I just 418 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: you know, I just I just told him. It just 419 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: things like, hey, you get a nice podcast over there. 420 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: It sure would be a shame if someone I don't 421 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: know set fire to something like that. Yeah, yeah, I'm 422 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: just really fed up with this Quister segment. But people 423 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: seem to like it, so I guess we have to 424 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: keep doing it forever. Now for those who do not 425 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: know what the heck is happening, I will explain. So 426 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: I come on the show, and has been alluded to earlier, 427 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: I present a scenario. The gentleman here have three minutes 428 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: to determine whether or not said scenario represents an actual 429 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: historical fact or if I made sit up seas. I 430 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: also create an arbitrary rule that you have to follow 431 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: if you wish to ask any questions of yours truly 432 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: the Quister this case, because we're talking about dead people, 433 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: your rule is going to be a little, uh, little tricksy. 434 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,239 Speaker 1: Before you can ask a question, you must quote at 435 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: least some portion of the wonderful, wonderful song dead Man's 436 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: Party by Oingo Boingo. You could ask for more like 437 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: there you go, perfect Dannie Lpan Vehicle Ongo Boingo. Can 438 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: I quote the horn part? But absolutely you can. Absolutely, Yeah, 439 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: we can do the whole thing, you know. Yeah, that's it. 440 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: We're just throwing the segment out. We're just gonna jam. Guy. No, 441 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: we've already set it up right, so lay it, lay 442 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: it on us. And also I'm noticing that your accents 443 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: are a bit more dynamic today. You have a lot 444 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: of pep I uh drink like ten five hour energy 445 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: drinks because I got a lot of stuff coming up. 446 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: You're fifty deep. That's right, all right, I can see 447 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: next week. Man. Well, let's hope we can see through 448 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: your deception right now. No, man, I hope. So here's 449 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: your scenario. You will start the timer win. I give 450 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: you the the the signal which would be uh, start 451 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,959 Speaker 1: the timer. Here it is Italian artist Giovanni Balducci in 452 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: the early seventeenth century got a peculiar commission. He was 453 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: hired to paint the portraits of the upper crust of Naples. 454 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: But these were very special portraits, for they were missing 455 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: one important feature, the subject's heads. See, he was painting 456 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: these portraits in the catacombs of San Guadio, so where 457 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: the decapitated heads of deceased hoity toities were placed in 458 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: alcoves in the walls. Balducci painted frescoes of rich people 459 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: in their finery around these heads, which I must stress 460 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: still had flesh on them. Oh and he did it 461 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: for free because he considered it an honor. Start the timer, 462 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: don't run away, It's only me, yes, Mr Berlin. Okay, 463 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: So is this still on display? Like could people still 464 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: go see it? For a long time it was not 465 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: on display. But in two thousand and six some people 466 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: who were trying to attract more visitors to this particular 467 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: part of Naples got together and commissioned UH an entire 468 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: fundraising event, and now it is in fact open for 469 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: you to tour. So, Ben, do you picture this is 470 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: being sort of like those catacombs and Prague or like 471 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: the ostuary. You know, it's like a church made of 472 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: bones and stuff like that. Obviously there's no more flesh. 473 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: That's the part throws man because flesh decomposed. Unless it's 474 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: treated and preserved, flesh will decompose or desiccated at some point. 475 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: I feel it only necessary to say that when I 476 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: said still had flesh upon them, I meant at the 477 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: time he was painting. You know, but that's gross, he's 478 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,959 Speaker 1: that's gonna smell. That's not gonna be fun painting around 479 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: decomposing heads. It was a different time, no, old people 480 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: were used to different smells. I don't know. I'm just 481 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: I'm all bugaboo. You could go either way. Yeah, do 482 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: you have a question? Not really, I don't want to 483 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: speak to this man, all right, I'm all dressed up 484 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:01,479 Speaker 1: with nowhere to go. Yes, Mr Bolin. So two thousand 485 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: six you said, is when this went back on display. 486 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: Has this artist done any other work that we would 487 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: be familiar with? Not recently. He's been dead for four 488 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: hundred years, right man, Come on, man, Yes he's done. 489 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: He's done other works. He was a student of a 490 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: sorry sorry, being a sixteenth century Italian artists, mostly known 491 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: for his biographies of other Italian artists. But he has 492 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: done other works. Most of them would be considered an 493 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: uninspired you might say, don't be afraid yes, No, I 494 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: just wanted to do I don't really have anything that's fair. 495 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: All right, well I'm gonna say false. I am feeling true. 496 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: You want to rochampions, Okay, there we go one to three. Shoot. Oh, 497 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: now I want to go with yours. Okay, so no, 498 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: no wins. But he made the decision to go with 499 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: Ben's decision, which was the opposite of his. What was 500 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: your decision again, Ben, we're locking it in? Yes, yes, true, 501 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: you have locked in. Yes, she'll be that's my again. 502 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: So this was that was I'm pretty sure from my 503 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: seat and did it dance? Pretty sure you spiked the 504 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: mica on that one, buddy, all right? So yes, In fact, 505 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: this is true. The catacombs were closed to the public 506 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: until two thousand six. These days there are not even 507 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: skulls in those alcoves. They have crumbled to dust. Now 508 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: they're just frescoes with around a hole essentially where the 509 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: head would be. But at one point there were the 510 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: actual recently deceased heads of these rich people, including people 511 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: who were described as princesses. Uh in those walls. It 512 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: is under the basilica of Santa Maria della s Anita. 513 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: If you are ever in Naples, that is the one 514 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: you go to, and they're about twenty frescoes in total. 515 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: So he painted these frescoes four surrounded by rotting decapitated heads, 516 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: because it was an honor, yes, he he thought, because 517 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: this was this was supposed to be a celebration of 518 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: a person. The head was supposed to be the center 519 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: of the person's being, and that he was there too 520 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: to glorify that. That it was such a great honor. 521 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: He refused the fee that the church tried to pay 522 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: him in return for his work. He said, no, no, no, 523 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: I do this for them, And so he refused payment, 524 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: just like you're out here doing this segment and I 525 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: don't get paid for it because you're exactly you're you're 526 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: you're paid at a shot in floud in spite came 527 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: up short this one. You know what, man, you can't 528 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: win them all. I mean you you said today you 529 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: literally won, you literally won ro shambo and you went 530 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: with the other, you know, because it was my gut. 531 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: I may have won the rochambo, but my gut said, 532 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: Ben was right, and you're getting a lot better rock 533 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: paper scissors. And now I want to that man, I'm 534 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: starting to like this segment again, this has been an 535 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: emotional roller coaster on many counts. Quister, thank you, I 536 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: am required to say for coming onto the show. Pretty sure, 537 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,760 Speaker 1: I'm still ahead by one. You know what? What what? 538 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: What's a couple of numbers between friends? So I have 539 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: a feeling that I have a feeling that Jonathan and 540 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 1: Noel are a bit more competitive than I am. So please, 541 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: I really did leap out of my seat and do 542 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: a hammer dance, and it really is a true. Yeah, 543 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 1: but we may have won the battle, we have not 544 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:51,280 Speaker 1: won the war. The war still rages. The war still rages. 545 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: And something tells me that something, probably being super producer 546 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: Casey Pegrham, that this is not the last we've seen 547 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: of the Quister. Yeah, I'm cool with that. I've got 548 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: my dignity back now. How much you've been, you never 549 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: really lost it. You weren't as invested in this as 550 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: I was. I don't think I'm invested, but it's just 551 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: because I find so many things fascinating. I look at 552 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,439 Speaker 1: it as a learning experience. Excuse me, guys, that's that's 553 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 1: my chauffeur. He says, that's roomful. Maybe just one more, well, 554 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: flat and on that and on that note, we'd like 555 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: to thank Jonathan Strickland, we'd like to thank Casey Pegram, 556 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: we'd like to thank Alex Williams who composed this track. 557 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: And most importantly, we'd like to thank you Ben. Oh no, 558 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: thank thank you. No, You're welcome. The pleasure was more. 559 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: It's shared, it's mutual pleasure, all right. Well, before this 560 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: bromance goes off the rails, we are really uncomfortable. It's 561 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: too but it's too bad man. You chose to sit 562 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: in the middle. So we're gonna head out. Tune in 563 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: next time when we explore the strange story of a 564 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: flying aircraft carrier. It's sort of a sequel, kind of 565 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: sort of Zeppelin to the Zeppelin ngan electric zeppel Loop. 566 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: I love it. And you know, Ben, you're you're quite 567 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: fond of airships, so I know you're happy about this one. 568 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 1: Oh I am thrilled, my friend. Why you might ask 569 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: not to tune in and find out In the meantime, 570 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. How's your 571 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: vision board coming, dude? It's going really well. Yeah. I 572 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,919 Speaker 1: had ahead of moment where I just decided to take 573 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,760 Speaker 1: off the Christopher Walking Pictures. I have a whole section online. 574 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: It's nothing but Christopher walkin pictures, but with Steve Bushemi's eyes. 575 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: I know you keep texting you, but hey, if you 576 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 1: don't want to do any of that stuff, you can 577 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 1: just write us an email directly. We're ridiculous at how 578 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,839 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. And uh yeah, thanks to you. 579 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: I already thank Ben did debate and switch there. But 580 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: thanks to you folks for tuning in joining us for 581 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: another episode of ridiculous history. You'll see you next time. 582 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: Free eight