WEBVTT - A Conversation With Billionaire Masayoshi Son 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:11.600 Hi everyone, it's Brad. A few months ago we brought 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:14.440 you an episode about the life of the Japanese billionaire 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:18.000 Masa Yoshi Sun and his latest project, a ninety three 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:22.480 billion dollar investment fund called the Vision Fund. It's hard 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.400 to overstate the kind of impact that so much money 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.520 is already having on the tech industry. So if you 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.840 haven't heard that episode, I strongly recommend you go back 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:38.239 and listen. Now. This week we're bringing you a special 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.600 conversation with the man himself. Massa, as he's known in 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.320 the industry, recently spoke to David Rubinstein, the co founder 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:49.040 and co CEO of the private equity firm the Carlyle Group. 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.920 Their conversation was part of David's series on Bloomberg Television 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:56.600 called Peer to Peer Conversations, and was taped on September 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:59.640 nine in front of a live audience. There's some real 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:02.600 jail ms and insights in this interview, like how Massa, 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.959 at only aged sixteen, convinced the head of McDonald's Japan 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:19.720 to meet with him. Please enjoy. You are clearly one 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.640 of the world's most successful technology investors in one of 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.720 the world's most successful businessmen. Let me start by asking 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:27.679 you about a fund that you are now raising, the 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:29.840 Vision Fund. It's supposed to be a fund of a 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:33.400 hundred billion dollars. Now, that would be the biggest fund 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:35.800 ever raised. So when you told people you were going 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:37.679 to raise a hundred billion dollar fund, did they tell 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:41.680 you you were a little crazy? Well, some people said 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:44.600 you had a meeting with a man who was the 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.199 deputy Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia who's now the Crown 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.000 Prince of Saudi Arabia. And as I understand the story, 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.200 you went in and in one hour you convinced him 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:57.080 to invest forty five billion dollars. No, no, it's not 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:03.360 too okay, forty five minutes, forty five villion? That okay, sorry, okay, 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:07.480 I apologize. In other words, if you had one one 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.079 billion dollars pub minute, what could you have said? That 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:13.880 was that persuasion to get fortyllion in one meeting? Well, actually, 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.200 I said, you came to Tokyo as the first time 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.760 I wanna. I want to give you a gift. I 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:26.960 want to give you a massive gift, Tokyo gift, a trillion. 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:32.000 That a gift. And he opened up his eyes. I said, okay, 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:38.000 now it's interesting, all right. So I woke up him 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.880 and said, here is how we can give you a 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.400 I can give you a trillion. That a gift you 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:51.440 invest hundred billion. That as to my fun, I give 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:53.880 you a trillion dollars. But what is sh it that 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:56.280 you told people? What was the vision that you actually 0:02:56.360 --> 0:03:02.000 gave them? So one vision which is single reality. Singularity 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:09.280 is the concept that the computing power computers artificial intelligence 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:15.560 surpassed mankind's brains. The singularity is the concept The word 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:19.600 means that is the point at which a computer becomes 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:24.480 smarter than a human brain. Yes, today already computer is 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:29.200 smarter than mankind for chess, or goal or weather forecast. 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:35.080 To some expert systems, computers already smarter. But in thirty 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:40.200 years most of the subject that we are thinking, they 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:43.640 will be smarter than us. That's might believe. Let's go 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.960 back and talk about your upbringing a bit. So you 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:51.840 are of Korean descent. Your grandfather came from Korea and 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:55.320 moved to Japan many years ago, and your parents were 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:59.520 born in Japan. Did you suffer discrimination growing up in Japan? Yes, 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:07.880 I had some experience, but I fear now it was good. 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:16.120 You know, that made me, you know, stronger to work harder. Ah, 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:21.320 So I had to prove that I am not different 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:25.039 from any other guys, you know, not inferior, it's sane. 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:30.360 So I had to work harder to prove the value. 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:34.520 Your family adopted a Japanese name at one point. Well, actually, 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:40.520 in Japan there was a some period Japanese government forced 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.560 every Korean to change to Japanese name. So it was 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:49.240 not their intention that we had to had to change. 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.960 I had to change. That made me even more harder 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:57.640 because I was feeling that I was hiding something. It 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:01.560 was even tougher. You did not grow up in Tokyo. Um. 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.640 You grew up in a relatively small town is that right? 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.440 In in Japan, in the southern the southern part of Japan. 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.520 So at one point is said that you were very 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:15.720 interested in meeting the head of McDonald's. And why were 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:17.240 you interested in me in the head of McDonald's. Did 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:19.280 you like McDonald's food or you just what was it? 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:24.440 He wrote the book and that book became the best seller. 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.480 I was so impressed and said, oh my god, this 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.720 is great, and the guy who wrote about it must 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.240 be great. So how old were you when you wanted 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.640 to meet him sixteen sixteen, So you you managed to 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:43.760 get a meeting with him. I called his his assistant 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:48.440 and long distance called back then it was so expensive. 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:54.160 I made almost hundred goals, sixty goals and say, you 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.720 know this is my name, I'm a student, and could 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.880 you ask him to spend me shared me sometime and 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.120 could you ask him? And she said, oh, I will try, 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.960 but he's not going to meet with a student. I said, well, 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:15.120 don't decide by yourself. Let him decide. Okay. So I 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:19.480 I spoke with with the assistant, different assistants so many times, 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:24.080 and they don't give me the right answer. So I said, okay, 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.720 this is waste of my telephone bill. So I flew 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:32.160 into Tokyo and I said I came because they the 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:37.880 phone call became becoming more expensive than a ticket. So 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:42.360 what happened? And I said, tell him exactly the way. 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:46.240 I said. You don't have to look at me, you 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:48.720 don't have to talk to me. You can keep on 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.960 walking whatever you're doing. I just want to see his 0:06:52.120 --> 0:07:00.960 face for three minutes. So I'm not bothering him. I 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.920 just I'm so impressed and respect him. I want to 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:08.880 see him and if if you tell him that I'm 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:11.960 not going to bother him, time is money. He says, 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:16.240 I'm not gonna damage his life. She actually asked, and 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:20.360 he said, okay, okay. Actually he spent fifteen minutes with 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.360 me talking face to face. He gave you some advice, 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:28.480 which was to learn. Yeah, I asked him, what business 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:32.480 should I do? Computer? That's the one. If I were 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:37.440 you at u Age at this time of the you know, ah, 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:43.800 this is don't look at the past industry, look at 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.360 the future industry. That's the one. Computer industry. That's the 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:49.520 one you should focus. If I were you, that's the one. 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:54.400 So I said, wow, great. Next, well, here Massa Yoshi 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:57.560 son talked about one daily made, which many people consider 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:08.800 to be the most successful investment ever. Okay, we're back. 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.720 Let's go back to David Rubinstein and Massa Yoshi's son. 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.680 One of the investments you made is considered by many 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:18.360 people to be the most successful investment in the history 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:23.640 of mankind. You invested roughly twenty million dollars in Ali Baba, 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:25.920 and at the time it went public it was worth 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:30.000 roughly ninety billion dollars. So twenty million to ninety billion 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.599 is a return up at four thousand. Now Jack ma 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.520 is a very distinguished individual now now one of the 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:38.920 most successful entrepreneurs in the world. What is it that 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.800 made you feel this was worth putting in twenty million dollars. Well, 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:51.360 he had no business plan and zitto revenue, h employees 0:08:51.760 --> 0:09:00.760 maybe thirty five forty employees. But his eyes was very strong, strong, strong, 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:07.080 shining eyes. Um I could tell from the way he talked, 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.920 the way he looked at he has a calisuma. He 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:15.360 has a leadership. So his business model was wrong. It's 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.760 the way he talked, the way you know he can 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:24.760 bring you know, young Chinese people following him. Before Yahoo 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.000 was so famous. You made an early investment which was 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.880 spectacularly successful. How did you hear of Yahoo? Yeah? Yeahhoo. 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:37.559 Us was still private, fifteen employees, and I convinced Jerrian 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:42.960 to take hundred million dollars of our investment. So at 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:47.040 the time we negotiate, we agree. They grew from fifteen 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:51.719 to thirty five people, thirty thirty five people, and we 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:58.400 invest hundred million dollars two own and actually went I 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.559 po and made a great were done. And at the 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:05.000 same time I convinced him to start to inventure both 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:09.600 jaff of Japan. Well, we put one point two million dollars. 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:14.040 They put upon eight million, two million dollars start up, 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.959 kept up. Now, let's talk about one big mistake you 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:22.080 made overall and obviously very successful in almost everything you've touched, 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.800 but you were making a lot of internet investments around 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:28.640 the turn of the century. Around your two thousand one 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.199 the market went down in the in the in the 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:35.199 tech crash, and it is said that you personally lost 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:39.240 seventy billion dollars of net worth, the greatest loss that 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.400 any human being has ever suffered financially. So how did 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:46.480 you feel losing seventy billion dollars of net worth? Why? Yeah? 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:51.160 Before that, actually my net was personal net was was 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:58.120 increasing ten billion dot per week. For three days. I 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:01.839 became richer than Bitry Gates. Wow, what was that that 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:06.120 upset him? Or? No? Before I talked to anybody else, 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:14.760 you know, stop stop crossing? Uh So in in six 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:20.040 months after that, our share price went done n So 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:26.520 we all almost went bankrupt and somehow I survived. You 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.960 rebuilt your business, and among the things you did while 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.320 you bought some very well known companies. So you bought 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:38.240 voter phones, uh Mobile, telephone business in Japan at that time. 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.080 I said, now is the time to go next days, 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:46.439 which is the internet will become mobile internet. So I 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:51.000 had to either get the license from the government for 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:57.800 the spectrum or acquire bother from Japan. And first I 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:02.440 applied for the license to the government and the government 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.240 said no, there is no more spectrum. I actually sued 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:10.640 the government and uh, you know, for one big fight. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.520 But then then the both up on Japan became available 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:19.840 twenty billion dollars. I had two billion dollars, so eighteen 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:24.439 billion dollars shot. So where'd you get the money? So 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:29.800 I convinced the bank you know that the vote up 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.520 on Japan, I'm going to turn around and become successful 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:38.360 and become great cash flow, believe me and lend me money. 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.319 And they did. They did, and it turned out to 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:45.280 be very successful. Recently, you did the biggest investment you've 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:47.880 ever made in a company called a r M, which 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:52.280 is Farm, which is a semiconductor manufacturer based in London. 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.520 Why did you spend thirty one billion dollars buying a 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.840 semiconductor manufacturer when many people think that that's not the future. 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:04.560 It's actually study four billion that yeah, it's not a manufacturer, 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:08.600 it's a design design house. They design all the chip 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:14.160 chip set. They have nine market share for any smart 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.200 phone that you're have in your pocket. Is arm has 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:21.880 nine market share. Right in next twenty years, it's gonna 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:26.839 be they're gonna ship one trillion chips. Design for one 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:32.640 trillion chips. So I said, this is this is the company. 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:36.040 This is nobody can live in the on the earth 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:41.520 anymore without chip. Chipp is everywhere in the car, you know, 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:46.520 the fuserator everywhere. So if if chip is something that 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:50.320 everybody needs, and if there is one company has nine 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:55.199 market share, there must be a value. They're not monetizing 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:59.400 well enough. But if I own it, we can managize 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:03.840 as much better. So that's my belief. So I think 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.000 it's the company is gonna be more valuable than Google. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:21.840 It's not available. It's private company now. Now in the future. 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.240 You are a big believer in robots. It is your view. 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.960 I guess artificial intelligence is a good thing and ultimately 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.440 will not hurt humanity. Is that correct? So you don't 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.240 worry that the robots could become so smart they could 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.880 wipe out humanity as some people worry. Yeah, there is 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.040 a danger of that. There's a danger. But if you 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:45.520 look at the mankind history, people were killing each other 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:50.200 with many battles different among different tribes and rays and 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.760 so on. But today's world, we don't have that kind 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:59.560 of things everyday life. We are more civilized. So when 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:06.360 the what super intelligence go beyond mankind's intelligence and they say, well, 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:12.560 fighting is the not efficient way of living. The harmony 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:17.520 is better. It's more social. So we were gonna live 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:22.040 in harmony. And they think about us, they help us, 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:28.360 and they try to amuse us and have a good 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.120 love each other. What gives you the greatest pleasure in 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.920 the world. Well, the thing is, you know, I have 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.720 a vision. I have a vision of singilorarity that's really coming. 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:43.320 So we create a vision fun, right, we go and 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:48.400 change the world together and create a better world, better 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:55.640 world for for human living. Ah, So that excite me. 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.960 You know what is thinking about what is the future? 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.080 What is the how we can change the life of 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.680 people for the better humanity? Right, and so that people 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:12.560 don't need to die for unnecessary reasons like having accident 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:18.160 or having the disease or having the disaster to protect 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:23.640 human from all those you know, Uh, sadness. It's a 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:29.400 good thing, right, So imagining those things and investing and 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:35.800 create a group and having great product, great solution is exciting. 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.240 And now today you've come back and you're have enormous 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.720 net worth by any human standards, one of the richest 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.080 men in the world. What you do with all this money, Well, 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.800 I haven't decided what to do. I haven't decided, But 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:50.960 you're sixty years old. Now you've got to decide at 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:56.160 some point. Deciding how to spend with respect is more 0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:00.640 difficult than making money. That was a headache I had 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.119 when I when I, you know, became so richest me 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:05.600 in the world, you had the headache and you lost 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.280 that headache. Now you've got it again, right. Do you 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.439 have any plans to keep doing this for a ten 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:14.560 years or twenty years? Yeah. In my age of nineteen, 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.840 I created fifty years my life plan, and in my 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.920 age of sixties, from between sixty and sixty nine, I 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:27.680 would decide my successor and have my success keep on 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.399 running it. So in my next ten years I have 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:35.560 to do that. But even after I find a success 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.800 and give him a baton to run as a captainship, 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:46.080 I would probably stay working with him coaching him. And uh, 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:51.679 you know, as long as I live, probably I cannot 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:56.600 give forget about this excitement. Your parents are still alive, 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.679 they must be extremely proud of you. Well there, they 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.160 act very proud of me, and they're very happy. We're 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:08.119 a happy family. And you know we don't live together, 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:13.520 but they called me occasionally. And and you know, my 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:17.399 dad is funny guy. He he has a unique idea, 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:20.920 crazy idea and he always called me and said, Massa, 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.800 I got an idea, you have to do this. He 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:30.760 knows everything I'm doing. And uh, he's he's very creative, 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.520 very smart, and he talked about business to me all 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:37.240 the time. Now, you are Japanese and but you have 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.680 careeran descent, but you're different than most Japanese business people 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.720 who were very um, consensus oriented, not maybe as entrepreneurial 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:46.760 as you are. Has that been a challenge for you 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.880 and building up your business in Japan? Yeah, lots of challenge, 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:56.879 but the uniqueness is actually good. You know, if the 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:01.040 pack of other people this way, I am unique, I 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:08.280 have more opportunities. So the difficulty can, if you flip over, 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.639 become the advantage. So a final question, if you can 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.760 live your life over extraordinary story. Is there anything you 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:20.080 would do differently than you've done? I may, but this 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.720 is the life I'm enjoying so much that I would 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:29.200 love to do it again. Ah. I was so lucky. 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.800 I was so close to, you know, fall down from 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.199 the cliff. So I don't know I can do it twice. 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:44.360 But but this is definitely exciting life. I'm having fun. 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.200 And that's it for this week's Decrypted. Thanks for listening. 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:04.560 We always like to hear what you think of the show. 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:07.520 Send us an email at Decrypted at Bloomberg got net 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.119 or on Twitter. I'm at Bradstone and if you have 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.399 it already, please take a moment to rate and review 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.680 us on Apple Podcasts. It really helps new listeners find 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:20.919 our show. This episode was produced by Pea Gudkari, Liz Smith, 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.320 and Magnus Hendrickson. The David Rubinstein Show, which provided excerpts 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.679 for our podcast, was produced by Matthew Saul. You can 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.400 watch the full interview at Bloomberg dot com. Just look 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:34.200 for the David Rubinstein Show on our main navigation bar. 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:35.560 We'll see you next week.