WEBVTT - Marian Anderson: Legendary Opera Singer 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:09.039 Before nineteen thirty nine, she was seen in the world 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:15.480 as a star, but not in America. So America was 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:21.760 still Jim pro lynching people, whereas she was in Paris, London. 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:27.639 Uh the Nordic countries embraced her most of all, sabellious Finland. 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:33.240 This is where she was traveling when no one white 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.440 or black was traveling that much. She had already given 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:40.760 him one year, a hundred and sixty concerts in Europe. 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:46.360 That was filmmaker Rita Cockburn talking about the legendary opera 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.640 singer Marian Anderson. In nineteen thirty nine, Anderson gave a 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.760 concert at the Lincoln Memorial that became one of the 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:58.560 landmark moments of the civil rights movement. Today, Rita Cockburn, 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:02.320 who directed a New Duck mentory about Anderson, is going 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.920 to give us a fresh look at Marion Anderson's truly 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:10.559 remarkable life. I'm the land Revere and this is Seneca's 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.200 one Hundred Women to Hear. We are bringing you one 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:18.679 hundred of the world's most inspiring and history making women 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:23.920 you need to hear. Director producer Rita Coburn has won 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:28.440 numerous awards for her films, including the Emmy. Her two 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:32.600 thousand and sixteen documentary called Maya Angelus Still I Rise 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:38.640 earned her a Peabody. Her latest film is Marion Anderson 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:43.640 The Whole World in Her Hands. It's showing on PBS 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.880 and it tells the singer story in her own voice. 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:52.120 Listen and learn from Rita Cockburn why Marian Anderson is 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:58.640 one of Seneca's one hundred Women to hear. I'm speaking 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:04.040 today to Rita Cobe, producer, director, filmmaker, and so much 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:09.040 more about Marian Anderson, classical singer and one of the 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:13.840 all time greats. Welcome, Rita, Thanks for having me Milan. 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:19.040 We're looking forward to our conversation about Marian Anderson. Were 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.640 she alive today, she would be celebrating her hundred and 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:27.320 twenty fifth birthday. How did you get to make her 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:32.480 the subject of your great documentary and how should we 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:40.160 remember her well? I have been in um documentary television 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.520 on a local and national level for a long time now, 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:47.880 and what I find is generally my subjects choose me, 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:53.000 and then I chase the story until the story starts 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:58.600 to chase me. And I had just finished Maya Angelo 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.679 and really didn't of what I would do. I would 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:06.680 have some real concerns about that what would follow Maya Angelo, 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:10.400 you know, And I went off chasing a documentary that 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:16.919 didn't pan out. And then, um, I'm like, um, maryon Anderson, 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:20.560 a real person of prayer, and I don't believe people 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.200 come back to speak to you, but I do believe 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.400 that what's on your heart gets in your dreams and 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.480 all the rest of that. And so I was really 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:33.040 concerned about this and had a dream and in that dream, 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.440 Maya Angelo said to me, your next documentary will be 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.960 on Marian Anderson. And I thought Mary and Anderson. I 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.360 wasn't thinking about her. And then she was stern with 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.960 me the way that she normally was in private conversations, 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.840 and she said she has my initials. M A, I 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.600 will help with a start because I thought, my gracious 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:59.960 and um. I rolled over and my computer is general 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:04.040 a right there, and I ordered a book on her. 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.400 So I had that date and I had the book 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:12.600 My Lord, What a Morning? And it was her autobiography. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.760 And I looked for documentaries that have been done and 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.039 I saw that Weida had done one, and I went 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.720 on to chase this other documentary and one year I 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.120 was just so frustrated. I said, I was doing other 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:31.480 things obviously, and then I just decided to go play golf. 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:34.600 And when I got off the golf course in Florida, 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.360 I got a call from Michael Cantor and he said, 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.919 I have a documentary who won't I'd like you to 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:44.960 do now. He's the executive producer of American Masters and 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.440 we had worked together on the Maya Angelo and he said, 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:52.400 it's Mary and Anderson. I said, I'll do it. He said, 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.120 don't you want I said no, no, no, you don't understand. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:05:01.120 I will do it. And so she chose. My daughter 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.920 studied classical music at the Manhattan School of Music at 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:09.839 Lawrence University and in Vienna, and so I was always 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:15.680 involved in classical music and opera. Those were some of 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:20.279 my go to UH choices of music, along with jazz, 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.760 and so I was familiar with the music. And I 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:29.360 began to collect the books and began to read about 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:34.560 her and read about the industry. And I really feel 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:39.200 that it just called me. It just called me. And 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:44.400 I've have to say to you that as this documentary 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:48.360 is airing now, um, it's a bitter sweet for me 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:52.000 because I've lived with her every day for the past 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.640 three years and kind of don't want to let her go. 0:05:55.200 --> 0:06:01.960 I've become very engaged and very happy to excavate. Uh 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:07.520 the life of a woman who was born in so interesting. 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.159 Just that's got to be a unique inspiration for a 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.800 for a filmmaker, the one you just described. We're not 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.680 only my Angelo, but Marian Anderson were both chasing you. 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:22.919 It sounds like to to do this documentary. How is 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:28.080 it different from other documentaries about Marian Anderson? And perhaps 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:32.120 you can tell us were there any surprises um for you? 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.559 And you were making it well? Again, the concept of 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:41.000 chasing the story until it chases you is a very 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:44.880 important concept for me. So I don't go into a 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:48.720 documentary thinking it will be made like the last one, 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:53.520 or it will even be made the way current documentaries 0:06:53.600 --> 0:07:00.279 are on television. I think that that person has to 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.400 to how they want their story to be told, and 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:07.159 if you're very sensitive to that, you will find out why. 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.560 So everything I look at lately is a drone shot, 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.640 and I think that's wonderful. But there were no drones 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:19.440 when Marian Anderson. There were aerials. Uh. So I make 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.560 sure that I try to stay in the time period. 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:27.720 But what was most intriguing for me was that I 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:32.120 went to the University of Pennsylvania the Kids Lack Center, 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:36.640 where the Marian Anderson collection is housed, and I sent 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:40.000 myself there. I have a son that lives in Philadelphia, 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.440 and I just went there for three or four days, 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.800 just looking and trying to feel where this story really 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:51.880 was and driving around the areas where she lived. And 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:56.440 one of the things that I found was that the 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:00.880 libraries archives were wonderful and the people there were wonderful. 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.120 And David McKnight said to me, you know, we're just 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:08.800 putting in audio recordings that we have for her that 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.960 hadn't been uploaded to the archive yet, and I'll share 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:17.920 the transcripts with you. And these recordings are real to 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.880 real tapes. Now a lot of people don't know what 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:25.320 those are anymore, but uh, let's say they preceded the 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:27.680 eight track tape and all the rest of that in 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.520 the cassette and so on. And so I thought, in 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:36.160 my spirit, this is something new. I need to listen. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:40.760 And so the reason the documentary is different is because 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.280 as I listened to thirty four real to reel tapes 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:49.640 and had them transcribed, I was able to get her voice. Now, 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.280 when she did a documentary and she was alive and 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.600 she talked to you, that was one thing. But for 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.720 a long time, who didn't hear her voice? And these 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:06.080 tapes were the tapes for her preparing for her autobiography, 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:09.400 and a lot of what she said was not in 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:14.320 the autobiographies. And so what I did was I used 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:17.360 her voice, and then I went to any other places 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:21.800 where there were recordings of her voice, UM Studs, Turkle, 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.480 George Shirley and so on. And so while she's not 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:32.079 a true narrator, she does give her opinions on what 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:37.040 was happening, and so I think that her voice leads 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:41.520 the way in this documentary. The other thing, therefore, that 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.800 is different about it is every time she talked on 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.559 an audio tape, we had to cover that with something. 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:52.559 Because television being the visual medium, we had no pictures, 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:58.360 and we were already heavily relying on archival footage and 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:03.160 pictures for everything else. So I decided to do re 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:08.439 enactments when she was speaking. So we shot re enactments 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:12.840 in Philadelphia, and we shot them in Chicago at a 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:16.640 Landmark house owned by George Manning called The Beast in 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:21.040 Home and that beast in home had a carriage house. 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.400 It had a carriage from the twenties, and he's from 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:29.000 the turret to the seller. He kept it in nineteen 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:33.800 twenties condition, and so we used it and the grounds 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.800 around it in the re enactments to go back to 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:41.560 her childhood, to take her to Europe and so on, 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.480 and so I think that would be not a subtle 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.240 but it's done subtlely, but that would be a big 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.599 difference in the way that the documentary is told. M 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.920 so interesting, well, tell us about her, Where did she 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:02.800 grow up? And probably most interestingly, how is her great 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:06.760 gift discovered and how is it nurtured. I'm very happy 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.640 that you asked that question because a lot of people 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:16.400 see her as nine nine and the Lincoln Memorial, and 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:20.199 of course by that time she would have been forty two. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:27.280 Marian Anderson grew up in Philadelphia on a street that 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:34.280 was integrated. She went to schools with a large diversity 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:41.679 of people white um from different uh from different countries 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:47.280 that were settling at the time in Um in Philadelphia, 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:52.800 and Philadelphia was one of those border towns on the 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:56.679 cusp of the South and the North, and her parents 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:01.200 moved there as part of that early migration for her 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:05.599 to have a better life. And before schools were segregated, 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:10.439 they were integrated, and people don't understand that, and everybody 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:14.080 just went to school. And so she grew up in 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:19.640 that environment in Philadelphia, which had the largest black population 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:24.120 at that time, of people coming and gathering there. And 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:32.040 I think that um Philadelphia was a place where when 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.560 she grew up with her mother and her father, the 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:42.960 grandmother was nearby, the grandfather was nearby. The church eventually 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.960 when she moved when she was younger, was literally across 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:51.920 the street. And the church was social programs, it was music, 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.559 it was education, it was where you would go if 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:59.520 you were out of work, and it was a community 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.600 that curtured her. And I think she was very well 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:07.000 nurtured by her father and her aunt. Her mother was solid, 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:10.120 but she wasn't the person who was in love with music. 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.360 Her aunt was in love with music, and her father 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.199 And what doesn't make the documentary her father took her 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:20.640 to a local opera when it was in town and 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:24.160 when she was very young. He died when she was twelve. 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:28.640 By the time she was twelve, she had heard classics 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:34.560 what you would call classical European singing because that preceded obviously, 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:40.120 uh anything like um when Thomas Dorsey came along with gospel, 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:45.120 the fist jubilee singers. The type of singing the imflagmatis. 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:47.960 The type of singing that was done in the Black 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:52.640 Church was high art and it was what people learned, 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:58.600 and so that environment nurtured her singing. And then Roland Hayes, 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:09.400 who was an international African descent um son of a 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:14.640 person who was his His family called hogs. And when 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.560 they called hogs, if you know this in the South, 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.800 you call hogs for a very long time. You learn 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.240 to have a breath that comes up and out and 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:29.160 goes up and down, and it is what calls hogs. 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:33.320 And his ability to do that prepared him to be 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.960 able to hold notes and to go up and down 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:41.360 the scales, and he became a person who would mentor 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:45.120 her for the rest of her life. And so that 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:49.680 wonderful question that you have about the nurture, it was 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.440 the family, it was the church, it was the extended community, 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:58.360 and that is and her aunt and her father, and 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:03.280 that's where it came from. Self fascinating. Now you mentioned 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:08.560 nineteen thirty nine. She's probably most famous for the concert 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.640 she gave outside the Lincoln Memorial in April of that year. 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:17.720 Let's talk about that ninety nine concert, and for those 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.520 who don't know the history, perhaps you could take us 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:26.520 through what happened and how it came about. Well. By 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:33.480 nineteen thirty nine, Marian Anderson, out of her own agency, 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:41.160 had saved money and had one awards, particularly won by 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:46.480 the rosen Wall Foundation, which was the Jewish organization that 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:52.360 supported African Americans. The n double a c P. Right 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:57.520 prior to that was actually in its initial it was 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:03.120 run by Whites, and Walter White, who was black um 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:09.760 heard her voice, and James Weldon Johnson, who uh pinned 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.160 with his brother lift every voice and sing. So the 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:19.040 artistic community was very solid. But Marion Anderson had been 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:23.560 to Europe. Out of these Rosenwall Foundations helped her to 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:28.000 go to Germany to study German and so before nineteen 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:33.240 thirty nine she was seen in the world as a star, 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:38.760 but not in America. So America was still Jim Crow 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:46.480 lynching people, whereas she was in the she was in Paris, London, uh. 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:51.600 The Nordic countries embraced her most of all Sabellious Finland. 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:57.240 This is where she was traveling when no one white 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.160 or black was traveling that much. She had already had 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.880 given him one year, a hundred and sixty concerts in Europe, 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:09.840 and when Tuscanini uh said that she was her voice 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:13.240 was one you could hear only once in a hundred years. 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:18.000 Saul Rock took another a Jewish man who had lived 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:23.439 in Philadelphia, who was the impresario, the agent of the day. 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:28.960 He took her work all across the world and really 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:34.000 helped call a brand as we would call it today 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:39.160 for her. So by nine nine she's come back to America. 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:45.280 She has been to the White House and made a 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:52.960 friendship with Eleanor Roosevelt. Howard University and Walter White from 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:57.120 the n double a c P. Wanted her to continue 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:03.440 to sing in Washington, DC every year. However, now because 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:07.480 people had heard about her, there was not enough space 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:12.960 in almost any given place. The Daughters of the American Revolution, 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:18.440 the d a R had Constitution Hall, and Constitution Hall 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:22.640 could seat four thousands. So everybody said, let's take her 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:26.639 to Constitution Hall, and Constitution Hall said, we have a 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:32.520 whites only policy, and she cannot sing here. Essentially, and 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:37.800 as that happened, you can imagine you sang all over 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.119 the world, but in your own country you cannot go 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:46.520 to Constitution Hall in Washington, d C. The Capital. Well, 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:53.440 thank god for the coalitions that came together. Howard University, 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:58.680 one of our first historically black colleges, Mary McLoyd Bethune, 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.760 who was put it in place in education. With the 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:10.359 Roosevelt administration, they formed a committee, an interracial committee, and 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.840 Saul Hurro joined in on we're going to find a 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:18.720 place for her to sing. Now, the story gets fuzzy. 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.400 We don't know if it was a person from Howard, 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.760 or if it was the secretary, the Assistant Secretary of 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:30.560 the Interior, or the chapman or the Secretary of the Interior. 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:36.359 Uh Ikey's who said let's do it at the Lincoln Memorial. 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.840 But somebody said this, and of course they went to 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:44.560 Eleanor Roosevelt. And as the story goes, Eleanor Roosevelt, who 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:49.400 loved classical music and had met Marian Anderson through that 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.320 and had had her not only at the White House 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:56.440 for a private party, but also which was a big 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.480 deal because black people didn't come to the White House 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:03.840 un to the Roosevelts took this kind of position, and 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:09.600 then so you now have this confluence of people crossing 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:15.960 over boundaries to change some of the facade of a 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:20.680 racial construct in America. And it's through music and it's 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:24.200 through art, and they got to know one another. So 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:31.640 Eleanor Roosevelt, first Lady Eleanor Roosevelt tells the President, Franklin 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:37.200 Delano Roosevelt, ken Marian Anderson sing, and he said, I've 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.920 been hearing about her for so many weeks. She can 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.720 sing from the top of the Washington Monument. If she 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:46.600 wants to shore, you know, just let her sing. And 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.800 once that happened, they had one week to pull everything together. 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:57.320 And so April ninth, nine nine, to the credit of 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.919 the racism of the d A r her at the time, 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:05.960 instead of four thousand, she sang for seventy five thousand, 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:08.800 and as you see all the mics in front of her. 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:13.200 She went across the world with her voice, and all 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:17.680 across America, and even a ten year old Martin Luther 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:22.359 King Jr. Heard her sing and was inspired and wrote 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:25.879 his first essay that was published after that. It was 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:29.440 a huge deal. It was you have to go back 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:35.760 to Jim Crow ninety nine America, people being hung um, 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:43.120 fighting fights for freedom all around the the country. And 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:50.240 then to see that this relationship was formed that allowed 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:54.520 her to sing there and now you have an interracial audience, 0:21:54.920 --> 0:22:00.359 pictures of whites and blacks elbow to elbow. Why watching 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:05.959 this woman sing and being just taken by her voice. 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:12.000 It created a pride for African Americans. It created some coalitions, 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:17.160 some lasting and some that did not for white Americans 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:21.800 to say, there, you are able to do what we 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:25.400 thought black people could not do. We thought of them 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.199 as less than human. We thought that they could be 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:31.840 workaday billies, but not high art. We didn't think that 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:35.640 they could learn German. My goodness, they can barely speak English. 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:42.440 All of that was dispelled on April nine nine, such 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:50.040 an extraordinary moment in history. Seneca has one hundred women 0:22:50.080 --> 0:23:02.840 to hear. We'll be back after the short break. Now, 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:07.600 that concert also turned Marian Anderson into an international symbol 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:10.800 of the struggle for civil rights for some of the 0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:14.879 reasons that you already alluded to. What was her role 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:18.480 in the civil rights movements starting in the forties and onward. 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:23.719 I think that everybody says, or let's say this. There 0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:28.320 are people who felt that she was a reluctant participant. 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:32.840 In my research, I don't find that at all. I 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:38.480 think that one has to understand that nineteen thirty nine 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:42.399 and nineteen forty and nineteen fifty and nineteen sixty I 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:47.359 love that you go over those decades were changing decades 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.800 in the face of America. The first thing that happened 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:55.359 in nineteen thirty nine was after that concert, and with 0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:58.520 the help of Saul here A, she became one of 0:23:58.560 --> 0:24:03.280 the highest paid entertainers in the world at that time. 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:06.960 What she was making at that time amounted to what 0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:10.679 would be four million dollars today, and for a black 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:16.960 woman born in that was pretty much unheard of. So 0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:21.399 now she's making a lot of money, and she's now 0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:25.879 doing concerts all over America and all over the world. 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:30.800 It's breaking down barriers, but there are still doesn't matter 0:24:30.840 --> 0:24:35.760 how famous she is. She can't stay in certain hotels. Uh. 0:24:35.760 --> 0:24:40.320 She she comes to Princeton and that's in you know, 0:24:40.560 --> 0:24:45.080 Princeton and Albert Einstein here is that she's been turned 0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:47.560 down at a hotel and she has to stay with him, 0:24:47.600 --> 0:24:52.760 and he offers her home. Gaps were bridged their relationship 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:58.159 became a relationship after which um Albert Einstein did a 0:24:58.200 --> 0:25:02.000 lot of work in black colleges after that meeting because 0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:06.240 he understood something. So she was chopping down barriers left 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:09.680 and right. Also in the forties, after a twenty four 0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:15.800 year on again off again relationship with um Orpheus King Fisher, 0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:20.000 they marry and they try to live in Danbury, Connecticut. 0:25:20.080 --> 0:25:24.120 They try to buy fifty acres. They're turned down. It said, 0:25:24.160 --> 0:25:27.119 if you don't buy a hundred, we won't sell you 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:31.719 the property because around you, the property loses value because 0:25:31.760 --> 0:25:35.560 you are here. That's what is said to a woman 0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:38.680 who sang for kings and queens. And they sent her 0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:42.280 husband because he was light enough to pass to get 0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:46.600 the property. But they had the agency and the funds, 0:25:46.640 --> 0:25:49.600 and they bought the hundred acres, So I will give 0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:54.920 the forties to those opportunities. In the fifties, the n double, 0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:58.399 a CP that loved her, that nurtured her, said, you 0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:04.040 know what an off of this vertical segregation where you 0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:08.840 think that that's okay, we will boycott you until you 0:26:09.000 --> 0:26:13.119 call for integration at your concerts. You have got to 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:19.960 start somewhere. Step up, And she did and she said, Okay, 0:26:20.000 --> 0:26:22.720 if you're not going to integrate the concert, I won't 0:26:22.720 --> 0:26:26.520 be there. That was the fifties. The fifties was also 0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:31.640 brown versus Board and the implementation of that, the killing 0:26:31.760 --> 0:26:39.240 of Emmett till the the country being torn apart. UH 0:26:39.280 --> 0:26:43.200 in the fifties with UH, with little Rock, and so 0:26:43.560 --> 0:26:47.919 in the fifties in she breaks the barrier at the 0:26:48.000 --> 0:26:52.399 Met and she sings Ulrica and Balo and Mascara, and 0:26:52.480 --> 0:26:55.360 everybody that knows opera will know that I messed that up. 0:26:55.920 --> 0:27:01.640 But at any rate, there you have it. The fifties 0:27:02.040 --> 0:27:06.600 she calls for integrated concerts. She gets on the stage 0:27:06.600 --> 0:27:09.800 at the Met, and by that time she's almost sixty 0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:13.480 years old. She doesn't have the voice for opera anymore, 0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:16.760 but she knows that she must do it, and she 0:27:16.880 --> 0:27:20.800 must be that symbol. She rises to the occasion. The 0:27:20.920 --> 0:27:27.320 sixties is another place. The sixties brings us the Kennedys 0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:33.320 who embrace her. The sixties bring us the March on Washington, 0:27:34.600 --> 0:27:40.560 where she makes it to the podium and sings. And 0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:47.800 it's back to that whole nine thirty nine Lincoln Memorial, 0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:55.000 having christened that in a place for civil rights and 0:27:55.119 --> 0:27:59.800 protests the first time because at that time, in nine, 0:27:59.840 --> 0:28:02.800 you're shoulder to shoulder white blacks. It's put all over 0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:06.800 the world the pictures. Now sixty three, it's a more 0:28:06.840 --> 0:28:13.400 active the march for jobs and freedom, the fight for freedom. 0:28:13.440 --> 0:28:17.960 And she sings there by. Now though she's it's sixty three, 0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:23.480 she's sixty six and her career is beginning to close. 0:28:24.320 --> 0:28:27.800 So thank you for the forties, fifties and sixties. I 0:28:27.840 --> 0:28:32.239 think that would be the places I would land in 0:28:32.280 --> 0:28:37.600 those decades. Amazing history. Lesson Rita's Let's talk about you 0:28:37.680 --> 0:28:40.440 for a minute, and some of your other work. Eve 0:28:40.560 --> 0:28:43.840 won many awards, including an Emmy You wont up Peabody 0:28:44.000 --> 0:28:47.320 for your documentary and Maya Angelou? Why has it been 0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:50.560 important to you as a filmmaker to make films about 0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:55.320 great women like Marian Anderson and Maya Angelou? Thank you 0:28:55.440 --> 0:29:01.520 for that. Mm hmm. Here's what I will say. My 0:29:01.640 --> 0:29:07.160 mother is nine nine years old. My father was born 0:29:07.240 --> 0:29:11.880 in nineteen sixteen. I grew up in a small town 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:15.520 outside of Chicago's in all black town. There were two 0:29:15.640 --> 0:29:18.880 white women in that town who were married to black men. 0:29:20.800 --> 0:29:25.280 We did not know as children that they could only 0:29:25.360 --> 0:29:30.680 live there because they would not be accepted. Uh. Our 0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:35.960 schools were not integrated until nineteen sixty eight. I had 0:29:36.080 --> 0:29:41.880 no real knowledge of white people. I had black people. 0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:46.360 I had black stories. And when I went to school, 0:29:46.560 --> 0:29:50.280 I saw none of my stories. I saw. I was erased. 0:29:50.920 --> 0:29:53.760 I was in Dick and Jane for three years. We 0:29:53.840 --> 0:29:59.760 didn't have other books. I wasn't there. I love Pippi Longstocking. 0:30:00.120 --> 0:30:03.240 Then I saw the racism in those pages, and I thought, 0:30:04.120 --> 0:30:09.200 why are our stories not told and why aren't we respected? 0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:16.000 And I loved my community, and so as I began 0:30:16.120 --> 0:30:20.080 to write and become a storyteller, I published a book, 0:30:20.880 --> 0:30:25.360 Meant to Be, and I think it m It's sadly 0:30:25.520 --> 0:30:35.719 came out the year of Um. It was twenty oh two. Yeah, um, 0:30:35.760 --> 0:30:41.040 And so I it's kind of autobiographical, but it's a 0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:45.440 novel because I loved my community so much and I 0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:48.880 didn't see them anywhere, And so I kind of actually 0:30:48.920 --> 0:30:53.760 read a Tony Morrison book, The Bluistide, and I said, 0:30:54.040 --> 0:30:56.760 I didn't like the fact that she told our stories. 0:30:57.080 --> 0:30:59.080