1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This strike is bananas. 2 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: B A N A n A S. Strike is bananas. 3 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: Remember bananas, Joe. 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: Are you talking about the fruit or something else here? 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: Well, I'm talking about the fruit, so. 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 2: I don't know, like bananas. I remember bananas? 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: Okay? Are you worried about the bananas supply chain? 8 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 3: Enlighten? I believe we're dealing with this again. Oh my god, Yeah, 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 3: it's another issue. 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: I did a deadlift one, Jimmy. 11 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: Okay, uh, barges. 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 3: This isn't after school Special, except. 13 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: I've decided I'm going to base my entire personality going 14 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: forward on campaigning for a strategic pork reserve in the US. 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: Where's the best imposta? 16 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: These are the important question? Is that robots taking over 17 00:00:58,880 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: the world. 18 00:00:59,320 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 4: No. 19 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 3: I think like in a couple of years, the AI 20 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 3: will do a really good job of making the Odd 21 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 3: lotch podcast and people Today. I don't really need to 22 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 3: listen to Joe and Tracy anymore. 23 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: We do have Touching the Perfect You're listening to lots 24 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: more where we catch up with friends about what's going 25 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: on right now, Because. 26 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: Even when The Odd Lots is over, there's always lots more. 27 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: And we really do have the perfect guest. So it 28 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: looks like the International long Shoreman's Association ILA. There's going 29 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: to be a lot of acronyms. They're kind of struggling 30 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: to work out a deal with the United States Maritime 31 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: Alliance USMX, and so we might have disruption at the ports. 32 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: It's twenty twenty all over again. 33 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 3: The entire East Coast. From my understanding, every port on 34 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 3: the East Coast, which I think has all kinds of 35 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 3: influence from bananas to cheries to auto parts, could be 36 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 3: on strike as soon as October. Verse Craig, what's going 37 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 3: to happen? What's going on? 38 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 4: A lot of people asked years ago, how could you 39 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 4: set up a media business based on supply chain? 40 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: There's endless stuff, isn't there? 41 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 4: This always happens, but nobody cared before twenty twenty. You know, 42 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 4: everyone's aware that these supply chains are vultable and these 43 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 4: issues happen. They've always It's always been this way. It's 44 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 4: just that up until recently, no one really paid attention 45 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 4: to them because they didn't experience them personally. But this 46 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 4: stuff is always taking place. We are up to a 47 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 4: new union contract, the ISLA is insisting that if their 48 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 4: demands aren't met that they're going to strike, and that 49 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 4: would be potentially catastrophic to supply chains if it goes 50 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 4: on for a long period of time. 51 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 3: We are, of course speaking Tracy. We are speaking with 52 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,399 Speaker 3: Craig Fuller. He is the founder and CEO of Freight 53 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 3: Waves And to his point, Tracy, I don't think we 54 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 3: ever once talked to him before twenty twenty, and now we've. 55 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: Probably talked to him like seven times or something like that. 56 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's very true. Okay, So Craig, what 57 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: are the main sticking points here? Because the coverage that 58 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: I'm reading about, like the tensions between the ISLA and USMX. 59 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: I see issues on wages, issues on benefits, issues on 60 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: port automation. When I read the list, it kind of 61 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: feels like there's disagreement on everything pretty much. 62 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 4: At the end of the day, I think it comes 63 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 4: back to the fact that labor has more leverage today 64 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 4: than they've had in decades. And it's really a couple 65 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 4: of things. One is, you have a very friendly administration 66 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 4: to labor, probably arguably the most labor friendly administration in decades. 67 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 4: It's in the White House currently, and you have a 68 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 4: lot of leverage because of a supply and demand problem. 69 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 4: Is that they're just aren't enough workers that want these 70 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 4: types of jobs, and that gives them enormous amount of 71 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 4: leverage in these contract negotiations. But fundamentally their arguments are 72 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 4: that they don't want automation and they want significant pay 73 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 4: increases is really what it comes back to. Those are 74 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 4: the fundamental disagreements here is really the economic and really technology, 75 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 4: and it's concerned that it's taking jobs or potential jobs 76 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 4: away from their members. 77 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 3: Setting aside the politics, and we know the politics are 78 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 3: going to be very complicated for a democratic administration that's 79 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 3: prided itself on being a friend of labor but also 80 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 3: doesn't want to have a massive economic disruption just a 81 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 3: few weeks out. 82 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 2: From the election. 83 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 3: But setting all that aside, maybe we can talk about 84 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 3: that a little bit more. Does the government have tools 85 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 3: to stop a strike in the same way it apparently 86 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 3: can sometimes with potential rail strikes. 87 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 4: They can ask for a koling off period, So this 88 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 4: is not subject to the same regulatory environment that you 89 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 4: have with railroads. Have a very specific group that govern 90 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 4: a lot of the relations with the railroads because they 91 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 4: we can you know, there's a lot of history to that, 92 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 4: but effectively, what is in the arsenal of the White 93 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 4: House is the tatt Heartley Act. I mean, essentially, what 94 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 4: they're able to do with that is force them into 95 00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 4: a kuling off period of eighty days, and so they 96 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 4: can actually make them go back to work. The question is, 97 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 4: if you make people who don't want to go back 98 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 4: to work, how hard are they actually going to work? 99 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 4: And I think that's the big concern is, yes, you 100 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,239 Speaker 4: can force them for at least eighty days to cool off, 101 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 4: can force them into effectively a mediation and arbitration environment, 102 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 4: but you can't force them to work if they're called 103 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 4: back in. 104 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: So I kind of think the interesting thing about the 105 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: potential strike is it's already or it seems to already 106 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: be having an impact on shipping. And I saw that 107 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: announcement from Hapik Lloyd that they were going to implement 108 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: a work interruption destination surcharge. How common are those? Is 109 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: that like a normal thing? 110 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 4: Well, this is an interesting environment because not only have 111 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 4: has labor gained an enormous metal leverage, but really since COVID, 112 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 4: the ocean container lines have gained enormous metal leverage. I mean, 113 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 4: what is untalked about are undiscussed in the public, and 114 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 4: I think the Biden administration for all of the sort 115 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 4: of you know, as a supply chain professional, we're pretty 116 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 4: critical of, you know, every administration when it come to 117 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 4: supply chain issues. But one thing that I think the 118 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 4: Bide administration actually got correct was back in two thousand 119 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 4: and when we had the big function in twenty twenty two, 120 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 4: as sort of the peak or the sort of apex 121 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 4: of the or the climax of all the supply chain 122 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 4: challenges with the ports is they had correctly identified that 123 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 4: the big port containers had an enormous amount of pricing 124 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 4: power that really made them a cartel. And I think 125 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 4: they have a lot of validity and data to support that. 126 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 4: I mean, if you think about this, the top ten 127 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 4: ocean container lines have ninety percent of the market share 128 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 4: of international container movements. I mean, they have an enormous 129 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 4: amount of power. Ten companies controlled ninety percent of the 130 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 4: flow of cargo. To put that in perspective, OPAK is 131 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 4: approximately forty percent of global oil supplies, and so if 132 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 4: you could argue that OPEC is a cartel, you should 133 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 4: be able to argue and I think rightfully so so 134 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 4: that the ocean container lines are cartail. What's happened over 135 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 4: the last really thirty to forty years, this has been 136 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 4: massive consolidation in the international ocean container market. They're not 137 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 4: subject to US antitrust rules the way that almost every 138 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 4: other company is, and so they sort of live outside 139 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 4: this framework where it enables them to do things that 140 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 4: in every other industry you would have regulators pounded on 141 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 4: the door. And so this is what the Biden administration 142 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 4: identified back and came out and talked about it. There 143 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 4: was some laws passing Congress that you know, we haven't 144 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 4: seen any real outcome in terms of change of how 145 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 4: these guys operate. But what you're seeing now is the 146 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 4: ocean Contato Lioness have realized that they can use their 147 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 4: pricing power and their leverage over shippers to really increase 148 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 4: and put these search charges. We saw it during the 149 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 4: attacks that happened to the Red Sea. We're now seeing 150 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 4: it related to the Boord strike. And look, you know, 151 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 4: off the record, a lot of folks that we've taught 152 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 4: to sort of through channels that are very close to 153 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 4: some of the executive leadership at these lines will tell 154 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 4: you that they in some ways kind of want a 155 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 4: strike to happen. They would never admit that customers, but 156 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 4: they actually gain an enormous amount of levers. Think about 157 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 4: the capacity that pulls off the market, like these are 158 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 4: capacity constraining businesses. If you have ships that are sitting 159 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 4: fully loaded outside of US ports and can't be moved 160 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 4: or offloaded, then you've pulled off an enormous amount of 161 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 4: capacity out of the market. That demand is still going 162 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 4: to be flowing, and so for them, it gives them 163 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 4: an enormous amount of pricing power. A search charge is 164 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 4: only one, you know, one piece in that arsenal. What 165 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 4: you'll also start seeing is aggressive spot pricing if that 166 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 4: capacity gets pulled out, And what will happen is all 167 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 4: of those container ships will sit off the coast, they 168 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 4: will wait to be unloaded. And let's say this strike 169 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 4: goes on for a couple of days, probably not a 170 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 4: big impact. You may see, you know, a week of 171 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 4: slow down. You may it may take a week or 172 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 4: two to get back to where we're at. But if 173 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 4: this goes on for a few weeks, it could be 174 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 4: months before we see the system sort of adjust to 175 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 4: those changes, simply because all those container ships have to 176 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 4: be unloaded. They all get loaded in a sort of 177 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 4: as a big bottleneck, and so there's a significant delay 178 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 4: to unload those because it's a finite amount of capacity 179 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 4: to actually do so. And then those ships then have 180 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 4: to go back to pick up more cargo, and so 181 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 4: that will pull a lot of capacity out the market, 182 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 4: and so that I think the ship lines actually it's 183 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 4: in their interest to actually see labor disruptions. 184 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe, this reminds me so much of sam Brine's's 185 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: argument about price over volume and this idea that in 186 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: an environment of disruptions and capacity constraints, as Craig just 187 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: put it, you can raise prices to offset the loss 188 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: of volume and still make a decent amount of margin. 189 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 2: I'm just curious. 190 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 3: This is actually a little bit separate from the strike. 191 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 3: What are we seeing right now with trade flows that 192 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 3: perhaps are anticipatory of trying to get ahead of possible 193 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 3: increase in tariffs next year. 194 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 4: Look, I think the facts are that we have record 195 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 4: container volumes into the United States like this is. You know, 196 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 4: if you we had talked about this, I think in 197 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 4: twenty three and I had argued and I was wrong, 198 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 4: clearly wrong in this that we've seen record volumes in 199 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 4: the ocean container market. This is what I argue back 200 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 4: in twenty two, and we were unlikely to see a 201 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 4: repeat of that. Well, that's clearly not true, because this 202 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 4: year we've actually seen records broke or at least matched 203 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 4: back where we were in twenty two, and so we 204 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 4: are seeing record volume of imports and there's been a 205 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 4: lot of question about what's causing that. A lot of 206 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 4: theory is that the port strikes that are causing shepherds 207 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 4: to move right in advance. Certainly some of that's happening 208 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 4: no one. You know, these labor issues are not black 209 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 4: swan events. They aren't expected. They're dissipate. Everybody knows when 210 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 4: the contract comes up, and everybody knows that there's going 211 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 4: to be some level of pressure in terms of both 212 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 4: parties sort of posturing. There's a lot of stuff that 213 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 4: was behind the scenes that we don't actually get to 214 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 4: see or hear about that's actually taking place. But the 215 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 4: reality is these two sides are very far apart, as 216 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 4: Tracy correctly identified, and that's one issue that supply chain 217 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 4: professionals have had to account for, and that's causing some 218 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 4: volume surges. The second is this threat of tariffs. Donald 219 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 4: Trump has come out and talked about increasing tariffs on 220 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 4: China by as much as sixty percent or has been 221 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,959 Speaker 4: reported as much as sixty percent and ten percent for 222 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 4: everywhere else. That is part of the calculus. And even 223 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 4: if Harris wins the election, as we've seen with Biden, 224 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 4: he didn't reverse any of Donald Trump's original trade policies 225 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 4: or in original tariffs, so we will. I think can 226 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 4: see a continuation and doubling down of tariffs as an 227 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 4: instrument in policy that makes supply chain organizations prepare for 228 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 4: these types of events. I mean, Donald Trump's changes would 229 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 4: be pretty significant, or not even pretty would be very significant, 230 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 4: whereas Harris is probably going to take a little bit 231 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,359 Speaker 4: more of a measured approach in terms of her But 232 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 4: the reality is we're dealing with this. And then the 233 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 4: other thing that I think is really interesting is that 234 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 4: if you look at the Chinese economy, and I know 235 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 4: you guys have covered this a few times, is Chinese 236 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 4: consumers are suffering one of the biggest recessions and downturns 237 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 4: and activity that we've seen since it opened up trade. 238 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 4: And so we're seeing a situation with China where they 239 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 4: have all this excess capacity and production capacity that some 240 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 4: of that was built for domestic consumption, that frankly, none 241 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 4: of that stuff is being bought. So they're producing these 242 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 4: manufactured goods and they're effectively dumping them on US consumers. 243 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 4: Because what's happened is the big box retailers have gone shopping. 244 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 4: They're loading up the ships with a lot of discounted 245 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 4: merch to sell to US consumers. And because what happened 246 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 4: during COVID is we saw these record inflationary impacts for 247 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 4: about two years, the retailers just took it. They didn't 248 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 4: have a choice. Is the fear of running out was 249 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 4: a bigger issue than actually paying high prices, so that 250 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 4: showed up inflation. But over the last eighteen months, because 251 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 4: of what's happening in the domestic Chinese economy, we're seeing 252 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 4: significant price concessions offered to US retailers, and US retailers 253 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 4: have taken advantage. So that's why we're seeing a lot 254 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 4: of additional volume. All of the geopolitical stuff is certainly 255 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 4: real and it's happening, but I also think that there's 256 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 4: a pure economic driver due to just significant price concessions 257 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 4: offered by Chinese manufacturers. 258 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: Wait, so just going back to the idea of record 259 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: volumes meets a potential strike. But how much volume could 260 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: be diverted away from the East coast, Like if I 261 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: go back to shipping a Teddy Bear from Hong Kong 262 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: to the US, can I just I'll just ship it 263 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: to la instead of I don't know, Baltimore. 264 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 4: You would certainly think you could. Unfortunately, the West Coast 265 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 4: Union that is under a different contract has said that 266 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 4: they will not unload any ships that were diverted to coast. 267 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 4: So now we have a. 268 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 2: Real solidarity coast to port solidarity. 269 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, they are not going to cross the line. 270 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 4: And so effectively what you have is this refusal to 271 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 4: unload cargo at US ports on both sides of the coasts. 272 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 4: And you do have some non unit You know, Savannah 273 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 4: is an interesting sort of city because it's sort of 274 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 4: not a union. I mean, it's a southern city and 275 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 4: it's not a part of the isle A. So we 276 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 4: have this sort of couple of exceptions that are not 277 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 4: don't have to play ball if you will or won't 278 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 4: play and participate in the labor issues. But for the 279 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:51,479 Speaker 4: most part. This is a situation where retailers and importers 280 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 4: don't have a lot of optionality, and this is a 281 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 4: relatively new development. There have been whispers about this for 282 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 4: some time. It's been conversations, but now they've come out 283 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 4: and said basic in solidarity, they're not going to unload ships. 284 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 4: That is a huge development. I think if you'd asked 285 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 4: me a month ago, I had believed that the Biden 286 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 4: administration was going to force a cooling off period for 287 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 4: eighty days. But we've seen recent reports where they've said 288 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 4: they're not going to do that. How much of that 289 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 4: is official posturing of hey, we're not going to intervene. 290 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 4: But as Joe correctly identified, this is an election season 291 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 4: in a very contested election, and it's really a no 292 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 4: win situation for the Biden administration or the Democrats. I 293 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 4: shoulday because the bi adminstration is are the way out. 294 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 4: It's really a no win situation if they don't intervene. 295 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 4: We have potential massive supply chain issues right before the holidays, 296 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 4: which I think they would prefer not to have those headlines. 297 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 4: Just generally, nobody really wants me coming back on odd 298 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 4: lots to talk about disasters. We do we do because 299 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 4: these things happen so like in the reality, like you 300 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 4: want things to be kind of boring. Yeah, but then 301 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 4: you have these union membership, which is incredibly contested this 302 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 4: time around. You know, Trump actually is winning a lot 303 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 4: of union support in rank and file, and so the 304 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 4: question becomes it's a no in situation in my opinion 305 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 4: for the Bide administration. They really don't have a winning 306 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 4: answer on how they sort of resolve this, and so 307 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 4: I would assume that there are a ton of back 308 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 4: conversations that we're not pretty to. You know, those take 309 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 4: place anyways, Yeah, but I would assume there's a lot 310 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 4: of stuff is happening to try to get some resolution here, Craig. 311 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 4: The official ports is they're not meeting, but the reality 312 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,239 Speaker 4: is they certainly having conversations. 313 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 2: Craig. 314 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 3: If you know, you woke up tomorrow and you're in 315 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 3: a different life and it turned out your job is 316 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 3: a spokesperson for the Long Short Men, needing to convince 317 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 3: me that there's some reason not to aggressively automate our 318 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 3: ports and that this risk of occasional strikes. 319 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: Is worthwhile risk. 320 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 3: I'm curious. I'd say we should have someone from the 321 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 3: Long short men on to talk about this. My experience 322 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 3: practically is that actually they're hard to get a hold of, 323 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 3: and don't aren't that easy from a media perspective. But that's, 324 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 3: you know, no excuse to stop trying. Is there a 325 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 3: Steelman argument you could come up with for this system 326 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,479 Speaker 3: that we have in place, which is relatively light on 327 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 3: automation and relatively heavy on a handful of powerful, solidly 328 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 3: well paid blue collar jobs of. 329 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 4: The ports, Joe, It's hard for me to make that transition, okay, 330 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 4: because I find some of these arguments completely absurd. And 331 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 4: so if we're talking about full automation and getting rid 332 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 4: of absolutely all of the jobs, then I think you 333 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 4: have a valid argument. Like I think as a log 334 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 4: choreman having human labor, I could understand, you know, talking 335 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 4: about eliminating these jobs. These are obviously high quality jobs, 336 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 4: are high paid. I can understand and empathize where it's 337 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 4: coming from. But a lot of the automation that's actually 338 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 4: been talked about is stuff that is really not Humans 339 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 4: don't add a ton of value in these types of 340 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 4: structures anyways. Are these types of events anyway? So one 341 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 4: example of this is RFID technology. When the trucks come 342 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 4: in and out of the ports. These drayage trucks come in. 343 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 4: You have toll passes that we all experience. You know, 344 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 4: when I walked in the building this morning, I used 345 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 4: a key, I use an RTIF I D badge to 346 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 4: get in the building. What's great about that is you 347 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 4: get all this data. Well, there are humans today that 348 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 4: actually do the check in process. And frankly, humans are 349 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 4: we all know this is that humans are prone to 350 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 4: a lot of you know, we're not the most optable solution. 351 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 4: Computers can do a much better job in these types 352 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 4: of situations where you're dealing with consistency. So it's hard 353 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 4: for me to make the case that some levels of 354 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 4: automation should not be promoted. And that's really what I think. 355 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 4: The long shoremen have said, we're absolutely not going to 356 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 4: allow automation, and that's sort of the public official stance. 357 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 4: Over time, they do soften some of those positions. If 358 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 4: you look at historically, they will allow for some levels 359 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 4: of automation. But this is a is an ongoing issue. 360 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 4: I mean, we saw it during the Hollywood strikes. Is 361 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 4: that you know, actors and actresses were really concerned about 362 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 4: AI replacing them entirely and creating these automated you know, 363 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 4: the animated movies that looked very real with you know, 364 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 4: the likeness of a real human actor. So I think 365 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 4: this is going to be an ongoing problem, an ongoing 366 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 4: dispute between labor is always going to be fearful of 367 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 4: automation of any level because to them, it's a slippery slope, right. 368 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 4: They're concerned that if they allow, you know, or if 369 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 4: I do technology to check you in and check you 370 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 4: out of the port, that that means that we're just 371 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 4: one step closer to full automation. And that just isn't 372 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 4: the case. I mean, Rotterdam I get the chance to 373 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 4: visit a while ago, and there's ports in Asia as 374 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 4: well that are. 375 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: You know, rot down running. 376 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 4: But if you look at the place where those there 377 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 4: are still humans running the machines. They just happen to 378 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 4: be doing it remotely. And there's an argument that the 379 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 4: port runs far more efficient in terms of time and out. 380 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 4: There's a lot less delays. You don't these machine aren't 381 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 4: getting sick. But also safety is a really big factor 382 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 4: in this. I mean, think about moving big boxes of 383 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 4: twenty thousand pounds across cranes. There's a lot of potential 384 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 4: for safety issues, and so I have a hard time 385 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 4: sort of empathizing with this argument. I understand the labor 386 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 4: cost situation, and I was empathetic to the railroad some 387 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 4: of the rules around health days and sick days. It's 388 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 4: kind of empathetic to their cause. I have a problem 389 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 4: or a real sort of issue Joe making the case 390 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 4: that some levels of automation shouldn't happen. 391 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: So this episode is coming out on September twenty seventh, 392 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: and the deadline for negotiation is the end of the month, 393 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: so just a few days left. What should we be 394 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: watching in terms of gauging not just the outcome of 395 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: this whole situation, but also the immediate impacts. Are there 396 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: one or two things that you're looking at on a 397 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: daily or even hourly basis at this point, you know. 398 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 4: It's so hard Tracy having studied enough. I mean, one 399 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 4: thing about my industry is we're always sort of in 400 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 4: the front lines of labor issues because they do disrupt. So, 401 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 4: you know, the freight industry is an interesting industry because 402 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 4: when things work, nobody thinks about it. Supply chains often 403 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 4: are like the utility companies like what the power is working. 404 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 4: You don't think about your local utility company, but when 405 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 4: things are out, you all of a sudden think about it. 406 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 4: And I think a lot about labor issues is a 407 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 4: lot like I think about a big weather system. You know, 408 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 4: I'm this hurricane that's that's coming. 409 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I forgot about that. 410 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, the line of site is right to Chattanicka, Tennessee. 411 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 4: And we're all preparing locally for like what happens if 412 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,239 Speaker 4: we don't have power? Should we get groceries? And all 413 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 4: the things that you deal with the family of a 414 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 4: family of five. So we're like, we're thinking about this stuff. 415 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 4: My wife and I are, but I'm not. There's nothing 416 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 4: to do until that happens. And I think this is 417 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 4: the same thing with the labor issues. We know it's coming, 418 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 4: we know the storm is upon us, we can see 419 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 4: the path of it. It doesn't appear that either side 420 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 4: is budgeing. It doesn't appear that the White House is 421 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 4: going to intervene. So we know this has happened, there'sn't 422 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 4: a lot to do until it actually happens. And so 423 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 4: I would say, much like you see a hurricane, is 424 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 4: you know it's coming, you can prepare. But frankly, if 425 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 4: you're running a supply chain and you haven't been making 426 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 4: preparations for the potential of a disruption for months, you're 427 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 4: really kind of left out. I mean, there isn't a 428 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 4: whole lot you could do at this point. If your 429 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 4: cargo is in a box headed to Newark, New Jersey. Sorry, 430 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 4: it's in the box, and it's going to be up 431 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 4: to labor to decide whether they want to play ball 432 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 4: or not. 433 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: Wait, I have one more very important question. Should we 434 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: be stocking up on bananas? 435 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 4: I don't think this is going to go on very long. Frankly, 436 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 4: if you want my read on it is if you 437 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 4: look at these whether we're talking about the ups strike, 438 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 4: the railroad strike in Canada, the port strikes on the 439 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 4: West Coast, or the threat supports the labor issues in 440 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 4: the West Coast, these things tend to resolve themselves within 441 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 4: a matter of days. The worst case scenario was to 442 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 4: go on for once, and that just doesn't seem very likely. 443 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 4: From where I said, is that the sides will cave 444 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 4: when a there's a lot of money on the line, 445 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 4: but there also can get a lot of pressure. I mean, look, 446 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 4: I think Labor has a real hard problem here as well, 447 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 4: because if Donald Trump wins the election, then they lost 448 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 4: arguably the most labor friendly administration in decades, and so 449 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 4: this is the time where they have the most leverage. 450 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 4: But if it goes into a situation where they lose 451 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 4: that leverage, they're not going to get that back. And 452 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 4: so it's gonna be a really interesting thing to watch 453 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 4: because the election does matter a lot here because how 454 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 4: labor is dealt with at the federal level is going 455 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 4: to be heavily depended upon which administration's in office. 456 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 3: Hopefully we won't be talking to you in six months 457 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 3: if a strike is still going on, but I'm sure 458 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 3: there'll be something else that can catch up with you. 459 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 4: I want my jacket at some point, I think, so. 460 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 2: Do you have a mug yet? 461 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 4: But Steve Martin, do you have an Oudlocks mugs? 462 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: No? 463 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 4: I need one, all right, you should. 464 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: We should ship it direct from the manufacturer support of newer. 465 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 4: Please don't send it over a container. Look, I will say, 466 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 4: one thing I would watch for Tracy is air freight. 467 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 4: Like what we will see is air freight prices. Spot 468 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 4: prices will go in saying if we do see a 469 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 4: long term labor issue here. This looks like it's going 470 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 4: to go on for weeks or even days. I think 471 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 4: air Freight will be a really interesting thing to watch. 472 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: Lots More is produced by Carmen Rodriguez and Dashel Bennett, 473 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: with help from Moses Ondom and Cal Brooks. 474 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 3: Our sound engineer is Blake Maples. Sage Bouman is the 475 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 3: head of Bloomberg Podcasts. 476 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: Please rate, review, and subscribe to Odd, Lots and lots 477 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 1: More on your favorite podcast platforms. 478 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 3: And remember that Bloomberg subscribers can listen to all of 479 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 3: our podcasts and free by connecting through Apple Podcasts. 480 00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.