WEBVTT - The Case of Emma Woods, Pt. 2 0:00:01.520 --> 0:00:05.120 Strange Rivals is a production of iHeart Radio and Grim 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:09.360 and Mild from Aaron making for the best experience listen 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:10.120 with headphones. 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:20.640 This episode includes discussion of violence, sexual abuse, and suicidal 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:24.720 ideation that while they almost definitely did not actually happen, 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:27.040 maybe disturbing to some listeners. 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:34.800 Could this be the man whose experiments with hypnotism were 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:38.360 finally to become a legitimate part of science which today 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:42.200 cures the mentally ill. Did you have a vision beyond 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:47.040 your time, doctor Mesmer? Were you entirely a healer or 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:48.600 entirely a fraud? 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:54.880 I held a key it might have I'm not. 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:58.680 Adored an unknown world. 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:10.160 I could not think that those who fell up a 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:14.120 man of science. I wand. 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.679 They will find a footprint left by. 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.399 Miss ms Jock. 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:41.119 I'm Toby Ball and this is Strange Arrivals. Episode seven, 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:51.360 The Case of Emma Woods, Part two. In the last episode, 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:53.960 we began to look at the case of a woman 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:58.200 who goes by the pseudonym Emma Woods. With the help 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:03.200 of her therapist, Emma contacted alien abduction researcher David Jacobs, 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.840 who taught history at Temple University in Philadelphia. Because of 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:11.720 the distance between Philadelphia and New Zealand, where Emma lived, 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:16.720 Jacobs began to conduct hypnotic regression therapy over the phone. 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:20.160 He also taped the sessions and provided Emma with copies 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.800 of these recordings. When Emma later listened to these tapes, 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:28.600 she realized that her sessions raised many questions, not about 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:34.959 her experiences, but about Jacob's methods and intent. Jacob's claimed 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.920 to understand the purpose of these hundreds of thousands of 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:41.359 alien abductions a plan to take control of the Earth 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.799 with human alien hybrids. Aliens engaged in this plot were 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:50.040 evil and violent, and because of the importance of creating 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:55.360 hybrid children, their violence included sexual assault. This was the 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:58.360 narrative that he believed, or at least he claimed he did, 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:02.520 and it drove the direction of his work with Emma. 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.720 As we look at the quote unquote research that Jacobs 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:10.600 undertook with Emma, there are three things to keep in mind. First, 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.240 the way he conducts these sessions, how he acts when 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.880 Emma is under hypnosis. We have heard how critical certain 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:21.679 guidelines are when questioning people who have had an experience. 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:26.360 Guidelines such as not suggesting possible answers and allowing the 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:30.919 respondent to speak without interruption. These guidelines are even more 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.000 important when the subject is in a hypnotic state and 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.680 especially prone to suggestion. And in the case of people 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:41.200 seeking out researchers like David Jacobs or John Mack or 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.920 Bud Hopkins, they're beginning with a set of assumptions about 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:46.880 the nature of their experiences. 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:52.720 These people who find these hypnotists, they're already in a 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.840 state of belief. They already believe in aliens, they believe 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:00.960 in UFOs, they believe in the potential for being aliens. 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:07.160 Linguist researcher and host of the Monster Talk podcast Karen Stalls. 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.440 Now, so you have that as a kind of foundation 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:14.720 for this belief. But when these people are put into. 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:18.919 A state of hypnosis is very dangerous because the person 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.120 doing the hypnosis can actually, instead of recovering memories, can 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:28.200 create false memories, basically remembering an event that didn't take place. 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:33.159 The third thing is how when he ignores these guidelines, 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.960 Jacobs is working toward a narrative that supports his view 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:41.679 of the abduction issue. Remember, Jacobs has written books about 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:44.520 the threat posed by aliens, who he believes are trying 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:48.440 to control humanity. A major part of this plot is 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:53.680 the creation, through sexual relations between humans and aliens of hybrids. 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:58.200 This narrative was present from the very start of Jacob's 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:00.480 work with Emma. 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:04.000 He started with the kind of sexual assault, the sexual 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.480 procedures right from my first hypnos descision. 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.119 Sexual assault would be a recurring theme throughout her work 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.440 with Jacobs. Emma graciously allowed me to use some of 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:18.640 the recordings of her sessions with Jacobs. This particular recording 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.640 is not from her first session, but gives a sense 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:25.080 of the tenor of the sexual assault content. You will 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.599 also notice Jacob's introduction of other people's stories into the 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:29.640 hypnosis session. 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:36.520 There have been episodes of one of the women I 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:42.600 worked with have of pure sexual assault and sexual assault 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:44.920 from say, let's sexually three them. 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:45.719 I once. 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.360 And it is as absolutely pure sexual so not that 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:54.560 you remembered anything next day. But the way he was 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:56.359 described was was fairly. 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:01.440 You can just tell these guys didn't care what they 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:02.359 did to this. 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.960 Woman because they she was unier freaking anyway, so they 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.120 could do anything you want to do her, and they did, 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.239 you know, uh, and and. 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.320 That was that was that was a whole big deal. 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:16.760 And I've heard that from from from several people. 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:22.360 So here, Jacobs introduced a story of hybrid sexual violence 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.240 to Emma while she was in a highly suggestible state 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:29.719 of hypnosis. Clearly, introducing any third party story to a 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.280 subject in this state undercuts a researcher's ability to get 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:37.320 an uninfluenced account. To introduce a story as violent as 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:42.200 this one is troubling behavior. And it was continual, and 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:47.039 as their sessions progressed, Jacobs began to suggest again through 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:52.000 other people's stories that hybrid violence against abductees took many forms. 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:57.320 It kind of progressed into a lot of violence that 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.719 he told me about one of his other subjects. She 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.680 uses a pseudent in Elizabeth about how khybrids had thritten 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:09.120 to sexually assault her child and her husband was going 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.880 to strangle her children and all that sort of stuff. 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:17.520 They had done a lot of sexual assemination. They'd shown 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:21.920 her around the room bit they brought out her daughter 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:26.400 and said they'd be having sex with her too, and 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:27.040 that sort. 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.280 Of stuff, And they actually brought her daughter out of 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:31.640 the bedroom, saw out and. 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:35.240 You know that mess sort of thing. 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:39.440 They put her mind. 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:41.480 That I would be armed and then I would be 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:42.720 in fact, killed, and they. 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:44.600 Would just go ahead and kill me and someone or 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:46.000 me kill myself. 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:54.680 And they were fairly heavy duty, fairly heavy duty weather. 0:07:56.240 --> 0:08:01.840 Because of protecting this guy. 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:06.160 This time, this woman, Elizabeth has a larger role to 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.920 play in Emma's story, which we will get to later 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:13.360 in this episode. In the meantime, though, Jacob's behavior during 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:17.080 the hypnosis sessions continued in directions that were both weird 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:21.600 and ethically questionable. It begins with Jacob's pressing Emma for 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.000 details about what he believes to be a sexual encounter. 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:30.600 He at one point asked me to He said that 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.880 he wanted to get of my unwashed Nicholas my underpants 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.520 so that he could test them for hybrid DNA, and 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:41.040 he asked me to send him my underpants and then 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:42.400 not remember doing it. 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:46.520 You're laying on the bed with your shoes off and 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:53.720 your past program. 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:57.400 Yea, so none of them have sp sexual study editor 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:09.199 from I wrong. Okay, now what are you wanting? Underpants? Yeah? 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:16.839 Did you wash the underpants? Probably if you can know 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:27.600 it was yesterday, I can have a look. I have 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:28.040 a look. 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:30.760 Put in the plastic bag if you find the ones. 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.440 If there's are going to be intercourse involved here. They're 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:38.280 going to have to take advantage of the station. Okay, 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:39.679 well let's find that if there is. 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:44.240 First, they spend some time discussing the appearance of the 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.560 person that Emma had sex with, the implication being that 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.360 he was a highbred. Then comes this. 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:57.880 Part basically on day on top of you. In other words, yeah, 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.280 well if you is. 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:06.280 The new hands, without even saying about it, just put 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.440 them in a plastic bag, put him in an envelope. 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.720 Then just sam off to me totally greely appreciate it. 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:18.360 Do not even think about it, just do it automatically. Yeah, 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:24.000 go fus, no mess, Yeah. 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:28.120 Researcher Jack Brewer, he says, find them, drop him in 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:32.800 a plastic bag, no fuss, no, must mail them off 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:37.440 to me, and adds, don't think anything about it, don't 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.880 give it another thought, And at the end of the 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:49.760 session even gives her instructions to not remember this specific 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:54.439 session and counts her down backwards. And it was something 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.240 he would call a memory block. We're gonna put the 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:02.679 memory block on it. I won't spend about what all 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:08.599 that's about. Again, I think some of it, it's obviously concerning. 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:13.280 At best, we would have to assume he lost his mind. 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:19.600 Look, there's two things going on here. First, Jacobs wants 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:24.760 Emma to send him her unwashed underwear. That is strange 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.240 and troubling. Jacobs can claim that he wants to recover 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:31.080 any DNA that might be found on them, but why 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:34.200 tell her to forget she's done it? What purpose does 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.360 that serve if his interest in them is for his research. 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.480 I reached out to David Jacobs several times to get 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:46.840 his response to these allegations, but he never replied. He has, however, 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.440 written a long rebuttal to Emma's assertions. We will look 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:54.000 at some of these points in the next episode. Anyway, 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:58.560 Jacobs continued his strange behavior in the tapes. He seems 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:02.679 fixated on his belief that hybrids are having sexual relations 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.880 with Emma. His advice on how to address this situation 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:08.240 is probably not what you'd expect. 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:11.880 He asked me to war if he could send me 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:13.000 a chastity belt. 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:18.480 You know, years ago, maybe I told you this. 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.079 I had this idea of buying personal I was sort 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.840 of with a chastity belt. 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:31.319 Maybe this would be the time they get one. They 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:32.079 can't take it off. 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:33.520 It's got a little lock and a key. 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:35.240 And where I with. 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.240 A vaginal opening is it's got a couple of nails 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:43.400 sticking across. It's a dead stop, or no doubt about it. 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.240 Jacobs talks about using a chastity belt with a previous 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:52.840 subject and thinks that it might, as he puts it. 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:56.679 Sort of throw a cake into their plans. It's not 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.040 like you're totally accessible at all times. 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:00.720 It makes them wor little harder. 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:04.480 I remember seeing something they had some maybe they still 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:06.320 had in Philadelphia. This is so many years ago. I 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:08.959 don't even know they have these sex shops, you know. 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:13.160 And I went into one that specialized in bondage dominance, 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:19.880 place that I frequented quite often. And but I was 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.079 looking for the one thing. I was looking for chastity belts. 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.679 And they had all these dungeon type whips and chains 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:27.839 and this, and I says, and here was that they 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:36.120 had a chastity belt in there. Yeah, so there's that's 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:36.920 that's something. 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:39.680 Yeah, it might be worth a try. 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:46.600 So Jacob's plan for Emma is to wear a chastity belt, which, well, 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:50.600 it won't stop these violent and sadistic aliens, will, as 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:54.720 he says, piss him off. Karen stalls. 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:59.360 Now, so the requests that he made, we're talking about 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:05.439 unprofessional behavior, but how he continually talked about personal matters 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:10.720 and was asking her to send through her underpants, so 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.960 that I'm just wondering what he planned to do with those, 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:19.120 How was he going to test those or very suspicious? 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.960 And then the whole chastity belt narratives and his obsession 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:24.920 with alien reproduction. 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.480 This behavior brings up other issues as well, such as 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:34.160 how much Jacobs himself believes the narrative he is feeding Emma. 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.400 Well, the obvious sexual stuff is in question, but also 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.800 how serious is he about all of this where he thinks, like, 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.480 I know, why don't I anger these alien hybrids. 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.000 This is Jeremy Vaney who we heard from in the 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.080 previous episode. 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:55.840 My name is Jeremy Vany. 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:59.600 I am an experiencer of high strangeness. Let's put that 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:04.120 in quote votes and I've written about and podcasted about 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:08.960 that type of thing with a heavy concentration on quote 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:13.680 unquote alien abduction and alien UFO phenomena for far too 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:14.680 many years now. 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.720 On the suggestion of wearing a chastity belt, Jeremy has 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:23.880 this to say. 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.480 That sounds good. Won't stop them, but it'll upset them. 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:27.640 I mean, there really is the weird blurring of the 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.560 line where you don't quite know what he believes and 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.800 what he doesn't, except I think you can see in 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:35.600 his actions afterward. 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:41.880 So in his hypnosis sessions, Jacobs has walked Emma through 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:46.640 a narrative of violence, particularly sexual violence, and his real 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.760 world actions with her were suspect both logically and ethically. 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.560 And there was another dimension to this story, one that 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:58.760 brought David jacobs beliefs about aliens and hybrids into the 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:06.560 real world. After the break, strange arrivals will return in 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:24.280 a moment. David Jacob's hypnosis sessions with Emma Woods were 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.840 not the only way he involved her in his alien 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:30.840 abduction narrative. In addition to these one on one sessions, 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:35.040 Jacobs brought Emma into a melodrama that he created involving 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.520 hostile aliens and hybrids and two other patients of his, 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.720 a woman with the pseudonym Elizabeth and a man going 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:47.040 by the name Brian Reid. Let me quickly clarify that 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:50.560 when I say that Jacobs created this melodrama, I mean 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.200 I don't believe that there actually were any aliens or 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.800 hybrids interacting with these people in the real world. Jacobs 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.600 may not have been the only person here making things up, 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.359 but he was the main driver of the narrative that 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:09.720 emerged back to Elizabeth and Brian. Both were patients of Jacobs. 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:14.320 Brian's mother was also a patient of Jacob's. Elizabeth played 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:16.480 the bigger role in this part of the story, with 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.760 Brian coming in later. A key component of this was 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.120 a move further away from the in person hypnosis session, 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.919 further even than over the phone. 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:32.320 They took the bad idea of regressive hypnosis in person, 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.600 where you essentially just close your eyes and tell the 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:39.639 story the hypnotist wants to hear. They took that and 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.119 evolved it to doing it by phone, because why bother 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.760 to get together when you can just tell me this 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.600 story over the phone. And then they took that and said, 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:50.840 let's just text. 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.280 Just to be clear, Jacobs decided that it was possible 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:01.679 and fine to conduct hypnosis sessions through techx messages. This 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.080 is very strange. 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.120 And one of the things that was happening with Elizabeth 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:14.959 is she was claiming by text that the hybrids, the 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:20.159 et human hybrids, would come in her home render her 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.399 helpless and put this mind control thing on her where 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.480 they control her actions and she can't remember it later. 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.960 And then they would text with whoever she had been 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:39.040 texting with, and they came in at that point because 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:45.200 she was texting about her interactions with the hybrids. They 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.439 wanted to put a stop to it and threaten David 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.639 Jacobs by text that don't do this anymore. 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:57.960 So Elizabeth, who communicated through text during these hypnosis sessions, 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.639 claimed that hybrids were breaking into our home, taking control 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:06.239 of her body and texting directly with Jacob's. On the 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.359 face of it, this would seem to warrant a little skepticism, 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:11.359 but that was not the case. 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:19.000 Then he told me that he was having serious problems 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:26.640 with Elizabeth, that her hybrids I think had started threatening 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.879 him or he was very afraid of them. And every 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.119 night he went on to instant messenger, and he spent 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.200 time chatting to Elizabeth an instant messenger, and I think 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:39.679 he did it to keep her in the loop, the 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.159 same way that he kept emailing me to keep me 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:45.560 in the loop. And then one time she said to 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.760 him that she had lied to him about everything and 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.399 she was a bad person and she was sorry and goodbye, 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:56.200 and he didn't accept that, and he's basically it came 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:58.560 about that the hybrids had made her say that. 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:02.960 This seems to me as though it's probably a situation 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:07.239 where Elizabeth, for whatever reason, admitted that she had been 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:12.000 untruthful in some instances. She then regretted her admission and 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.280 used the existing story of being controlled by hybrids to 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:20.359 explain the confession away. Let's take a second because this 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.280 gets a little complicated, and it's important to keep track 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:26.560 of what is going on, how Jacobs is responding to it, 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.360 and what it all might mean. Earlier in the episode, 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.000 we heard a piece of audio where Jacobs talks to 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:37.080 Emma about how the hybrids or aliens have treated Elizabeth. 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.119 You hadn't hear they We have done a lot of 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:47.520 sexual ascommodation. They've thrown her around the realm bitch. They 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:51.280 brought out her daughter and head that they could be 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:54.280 having sex with her too, and that. 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:55.040 Sort of stuff. 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.439 Elizabeth now claimed that her house was being in by 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.919 hybrids who took control of her. If you believe that 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.960 these creatures are in fact real, that Elizabeth is telling 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:12.199 the truth, this clearly seems like a situation where Elizabeth 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:16.080 and her family are in real danger? What does Jacobs 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:21.320 do nothing? Jack Brewer interviewed Jacobs and asked him why 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.200 he didn't try to intervene or do something to help her. 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:30.000 I spoke to him about that. I interviewed him in person, 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.040 and one of the things I asked him about was 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.919 if he believed that to be true. And if so, like, 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:41.439 if you literally believe there is someone going to a 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:48.160 woman's house claiming to be a hybrid alien and sexually 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:53.080 assaulting her, why would you not be calling law enforcement? 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.800 Like wouldn't the rational thing to be that these people 0:21:56.880 --> 0:22:00.840 claiming to be aliens aren't and that this is sexual 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:04.520 assault or something like that? Like, how can you not 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:11.760 be conducting some type of investigation, like some forensic investigation, 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:17.320 something other than instant messaging with the lady and hypnosis 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:18.920 by phone and things like that. 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:23.600 In other words, whether you believe there were hybrids or 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:27.400 aliens or not, you were hearing from Elizabeth that some 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:32.000 beings maybe humans, were breaking into her house, and as 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:35.960 he had heard from previous hypnosis sessions, physically and sexually 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:39.359 assaulting her, why wouldn't Jacobs do something? 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:46.199 His response to that was so baffling. He framed it 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:50.600 as if I was suggesting he'd drive to her home 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:54.840 and hide and watch, which I of course was not. 0:22:55.440 --> 0:23:00.520 And his response to me was, she keeps the curtains 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:03.600 drawn anyway, it would take me like an hour and 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:07.200 a half to get there by car, and I wouldn't 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:09.000 be able to see in the windows. 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:10.120 And I thought that. 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:14.080 Was just such a bizarre response. And of course he 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:18.680 doesn't even address why you don't call LAE enforcement or something. 0:23:20.640 --> 0:23:24.919 So while Jacobs doesn't seem overly concerned about Elizabeth, he 0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:28.800 was presumably becoming more stressed and afraid of the Hybrid's 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:33.280 belligerence towards his subjects in himself, he came up with 0:23:33.320 --> 0:23:35.040 a plan to throw them off the scent. 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:39.640 The hybrids came on the Instant Messenger and started talking 0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:43.080 to him an instant Messenger, and the hybrid was pretending 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:43.639 to be. 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:48.080 Her, the her in this case being Elizabeth. 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:51.400 And then he realized it was a hybrid, and then 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:55.360 he pretended to the hybrid that he was not investigating 0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:58.600 the alien program that he called it, but that he 0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:03.560 was really a space and MPD multiple personality disorder, and 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:07.560 that she had multiple personality disorder and that's what he 0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:11.240 was interested in, and by doing that, the aliens would think, oh, 0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:14.240 they were safe, He's not investigating them, and they would 0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:17.200 not go after him. 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:20.919 So Jacob's plan was to try to convince the hybrids 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:25.040 that he was not investigating alien abductions, but in fact 0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:29.880 doing research on multiple personality disorder despite all that had 0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:33.560 come before. This he seemed to think would throw them 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:36.359 off the trail, and he extended this ploy to his 0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:39.919 work with Emma, though with a crucial difference. You'll hear 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:44.000 the acronyms MPD and MD, and these both refer to 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:48.760 multiple personality disorder, which is now known as dissociative identity 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:52.640 disorder and is generally considered to be extremely rare. 0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:57.359 I had a hypnosis session with him very soon after 0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:02.400 he'd started having these instant messaging conversations with Elizabeth hybrids. 0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:06.600 And then in that hypnosis session, while I was hypnotized, 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:12.080 he implanted hypnotic suggestions in me that I had multiple 0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:13.320 personality disorder. 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:18.560 My diagnosis is just muscle personality disorder and used to 0:25:18.640 --> 0:25:23.159 take us for it. Lots of cases of MPD and 0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:32.520 this absolutely is the MDD profile make me my professal diagnosis, therefore, 0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:37.960 is muscle personality disorder. I am studying it. I am 0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:41.080 writing a book about it. That is my next book. 0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:45.320 I feel it the whole sort of alien business is 0:25:45.400 --> 0:25:49.720 not a matter of muscle personality disorder. It's a much 0:25:49.800 --> 0:25:51.800 more widespread phenomena. 0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:53.520 Than people think. Lots of people. 0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:57.840 Working around it is nothing else a problem, and you 0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:00.840 are unfortunately suffering from. 0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:05.639 And opinion is that Joys is a classic case. 0:26:07.280 --> 0:26:09.480 He continues in this vein for a minute and a 0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:11.560 half before ending the session. 0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:15.639 And this is where my studies are leading. My studies 0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:20.760 are going directly to possible personality disorder. And that's all 0:26:20.800 --> 0:26:23.800 there is to it. Howls have to want to bring 0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:26.200 you ont of this, and we'll talk about mpdia a 0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:26.840 little bit more. 0:26:29.480 --> 0:26:29.560 So. 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:33.399 What you've just heard is Jacob's giving Emma a hypnotic 0:26:33.440 --> 0:26:38.560 suggestion that she had multiple personality disorder. He is trying 0:26:38.560 --> 0:26:41.160 to play the part of a therapist, so he claims 0:26:41.160 --> 0:26:44.840 a professional opinion that he has no standing to actually make. 0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:48.240 I'm sure he would claim that he's not actually making 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:51.800 a diagnosis, but engaging in a ruse to throw off 0:26:51.840 --> 0:26:56.080 the hybrids. But the problematic nature of convincing someone under 0:26:56.160 --> 0:26:59.800 hypnosis that they have a very serious mental illness is 0:27:00.000 --> 0:27:00.920 pretty self apparent. 0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:09.480 It's hard again to adequately emphasize the extent that by definition, 0:27:09.960 --> 0:27:14.720 this is not scientific investigation. I don't even know how 0:27:14.760 --> 0:27:19.440 to say it without like employing sarcasm or something. How 0:27:19.680 --> 0:27:28.119