1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio. This is my conversation with Dr 3 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: Anthony Fauci. Well, we're very grateful for the time you've 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: given us. The first question that I have for you 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: is about the Texas border and the Haitian immigrants. What 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: do you think about immigration in the time of COVID. 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: What do you think about twelve thou people trying to 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: come into this country. It's assumed that they're unvaccinated. Correct, 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: you know, my making any comment about that. You know, 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: everything I say gets ripped off. Try by far right 11 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: people and get on me into the usual nonsense. I 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: am somebody who does favor immigration. My family, my grandfather 13 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: and grand mothers on both sides were immigrants. So I mean, 14 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: I think that what we need to do is do 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: whatever we can to treat them fairly, to get them 16 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: the right medical care, and to get them vaccinated if possible. 17 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: Is that a goal to get them vaccinated? I would hope, so, 18 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: I mean, but no, that's not my per view at all, 19 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: but I would think that that would be important. Right. 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 1: You see a lot recently on CNN dot com about 21 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: anti virals here's the pill. They said that maybe maybe 22 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: we can get back to normal. What do you think 23 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: the hope is for anti virals in the coming months. Well, 24 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: I think not only is it a hope, Alec, I 25 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: think it really is a necessity because the primary countermeasure 26 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: for a respiratory born viral illness is always vaccine to 27 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: prevent it, particularly when it has an acute nature to it. However, 28 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: it is very clear that even with a vaccine that's 29 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 1: highly effective, that no vaccine is perfect. So there are 30 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: two ways that you can use an anti viral. You 31 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: can use it to treat someone who has already been infected, 32 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: to prevent them to progress their disease to the point 33 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: of requiring hospital is nation. The thing that you heard 34 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: about the other day was what Belief Fiser was saying. 35 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: They are developing a anti viral they would use for 36 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: what's called pre exposure prophylaxis, which means that if you 37 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: are in a family setting where a member has the 38 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: virus and inadvertently exposed you, rather than waiting to see 39 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: if you are infected. It was very similar, ALEC, to 40 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: the pre exposure profylaxis that we've developed for HIV, where 41 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: you have people who are in a risk situation that 42 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: they could take something that normally would be a therapy, 43 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: but they're taking it as a pre exposure prophylaxis. That's 44 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: what Fiser was talking about the other day. Now, obviously 45 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: you are very famous and have been for previous pandemics, 46 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: and in the nine eighties you were one of the 47 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: people that led the charge against HIV here in the 48 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: United States, and you made a statement or a comment 49 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: that I thought was very compelling where you said those 50 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: people back then were fighting for their lives, not to 51 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: defend a conspiracy theory like we often see now. How 52 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: would you compare and contrast the response you've gotten. Is 53 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: it the same? Because I know that you were attacked 54 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: a lot, and then Larry Kramer came around and heroicized you, 55 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: and you were given the Congressional meta and freedom and 56 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: so forth. It was very difficult for you in the 57 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: beginning of the HIV cristis correct. It was, but it 58 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: bettered me. It made me a better person. The criticism 59 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: was to catch my attention. They were iconoclastic, theatrical, confrontative. 60 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: But what they were saying is that this is a 61 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: new paradigm that we were going through the tried and 62 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: true slow science, slow clinical trials, slow regulatory approval. And 63 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: they was saying, we have a disease that by the 64 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: time you realize what we have is that we don't 65 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: have a lot more time to live. So you've got 66 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: to get us involved in the clinical I'll design. You've 67 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: got to get the FDA to be more attentive. Since 68 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: I was an openly involved federal employee, I became the 69 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: face of the federal government, so they attacked me to 70 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: gain my attention. Probably one of the best things I've 71 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: ever done in my life, ALEC was to put myself 72 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: in their shoes and say, well, wait a minute. These 73 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: are people, young men, usually young gay men, who are suffering. 74 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: They were pain, they were afraid for themselves and and 75 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: for their loved ones. So I said, let me put 76 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: myself in their shoes. And when I did, it was 77 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: a revelation. I said, I would be doing exactly what 78 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: they're doing without a doubt. So that's when I extended 79 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: myself to them, and we forged a growing relationship that 80 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,239 Speaker 1: wasn't all rosy even after I reached out, but over 81 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: the years they became extraordinary value added to our effort 82 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: So that's what I meant when I said it was 83 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: something that was a productive confrontation that got our attention 84 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: and said, please listen to what we have to say, 85 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: and when we did, we got better at our jobs. Now, 86 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: as I recall, the bell in terms of the AIDS 87 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: crisis was wrung around one and that's forty years ago. 88 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: So to refresh the memories of those people listening who 89 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: aren't necessarily completely familiar with the history of the AIDS crisis, 90 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: what was the turning point in your mind that helped 91 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: you to start to, if not find a cure for 92 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: AIDS and help to manage the disease. Well, I got 93 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: involved as a physician taking care of desperately ill patients, 94 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: because by the time they knew there was something wrong, 95 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: they were desperately ill. So the first five patients that 96 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: presented from Los Angeles with this strange pneumonia probably had 97 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: been infected for years and did not even know it. 98 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: So when I saw that first report, I thought it 99 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: was a fluke and that it would go away. And 100 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: then one month later in July, the first report was 101 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: in June, there was now not five gay men from 102 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: l A, but there were twenty six men curiously all gay, like, 103 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: where does that happen? All gay men? Not only from 104 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: l A but from San Francisco and New York. And 105 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: it was at that point, Alec, that I made a 106 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: decision which, again among the decisions that I made that 107 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: were good decisions, I decided I was going to put 108 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: aside the things I was doing, which I was very 109 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: successful at, and start studying these young gay men who 110 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: were coming down with this devastating disease. And the first 111 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: few years of that were really the dark years of 112 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: my life and my professional career, because everybody that we 113 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: took care of died and it was eerie and painful. 114 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: But the thing that kept us through it is realizing 115 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: the courage and the resilience of these young men who 116 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: were being attacked by a disease that barely had a name. 117 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: We used to call it GRID back then Gay related 118 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: him into deficiency, and we certainly didn't know what it was. 119 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: The big breakthrough came in four when the virus was discovered, 120 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: so now we knew who the enemy was. Before it 121 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: was like just pain of putting band aids on hemorrhages 122 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: and you didn't know what the cause of leading was. 123 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: That you were with N I A I D. Then yes, 124 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: I was. I was a a senior attending physician at 125 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: the time doing research on the immune system and this 126 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: relationship to infectious diseases. So when this disease came along, 127 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: I said, oh, my goodness. If ever there was a 128 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: disease for which I was trained as an immunologist and 129 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: as an effectious disease person, this was it. So that 130 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: came in four. The thing that was a dark Oh 131 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: my god, like I got hit by a truck. Was five. 132 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: When what happened was we did the diagnostic test and 133 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: we found that the people that we were taking care 134 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: of who was sick, We're just the tip of the iceberg, 135 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: because when we started to test people in Los Angeles, 136 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: in the Castro district of San Francisco, in Greenwich Village, 137 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: we found out, to our horror that like the game men, 138 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: were infected, and that was inconceivable, that they were already 139 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: infected with the disease that I had spent the last 140 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: three years watching people die from. So the next landmark 141 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: would be, Okay, so now you've got the virus. So 142 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,359 Speaker 1: now you know who's infected, you gotta get a therapy 143 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: and that's when all of the incredible work went into 144 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: developing anti virals in an incremental way. First with a 145 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: z T which helped got them a little better, but 146 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: then they went down again. Then two drugs did pretty well, 147 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: and then the breakthrough when the triple combination which was 148 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: initiated with the protease inhibitors. But what since Now we 149 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: have much much, much better drugs in the sense that 150 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: we now went from my watching in an incredible painful 151 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: way every one of my patients, with few exceptions, die 152 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: eight two, eighty three, eighty four, eighty five two. Now 153 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: that we hardly have any patients as in patients. They're 154 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: all out patients. They're all leading essentially normal lives with 155 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: maybe a couple of years of life expectancy clipped off. 156 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: But now they're living vibrant, contributory lives. So that's the 157 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: long journey of forty years. Now similar, I mean no 158 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: out different as far as you're consumed as a physician 159 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: and a scientist, But to me similar in a way, 160 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: which is did we ever find out the cause of AIDS? 161 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: Just as the question becomes do we need to continue 162 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: to find the cause of COVID because it seems to 163 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: have dropped off the national conversation here as to what 164 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: caused us in order for us to learn how we 165 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: can prevent it from happening again. I presume, yeah, sure 166 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: that that's a really great question. Well, let me just 167 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: fine tune one thing that you said, Alec, we know 168 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: the cause, we don't know the origin of the cause. Okay, 169 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: So the cause is HIV. It's a virus. We know 170 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: now by doing a phylogenetic tree that there's no doubt 171 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: that decades ago this virus jumped very likely from a 172 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: chimpanzee into a human a blip of an affection, person died, 173 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 1: went away, jumped again in through a human blip of infection. 174 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden, the right circumstances, the dissolution 175 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: of colonization, the impact of commercial sex work, the truck 176 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: up trade that goes back and forth, the disruption of 177 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: family unit. Then you had an outbreak that's spread through 178 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: the rest of the world because it was sexually transmitted. 179 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: So we know for sure what went on there. We 180 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: know for sure what the cause of COVID nineteen is. 181 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: It saws kovie two. It very likely, given the history 182 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: of coronavirus, is saws Kovie one Mayor's the Middle East 183 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:33,719 Speaker 1: respiratory syndrome ebol uh Zekea that these things jump from 184 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: animals to human What we haven't yet nailed down is 185 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: the precise lineage of from a bat to an intermediary 186 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: to the human, or directly from a bat to a human. 187 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: We know that in the environment in China there are 188 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: bats that have viruses that are not absolutely very close, 189 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: but close enough to make you want to do surveillance 190 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: and find out what's going on in that animal human 191 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: interface that may have allowed it to jump species. That's 192 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: Dr Anthony Fauci. If you like conversations with people at 193 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: the forefront of public health, go to our archives and 194 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: listen to my talk with Dr Joanne Lou who at 195 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: the time was president of Doctors Without Borders. The threat 196 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: of being abducted was so huge back then, and we 197 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: knew that if something were ever to happen to the staff, 198 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: the MSF staff, then we will pull out. So we 199 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: were praying for not having anything bad happening to us, 200 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: because we knew they were delivering really needed aid. On 201 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: the other end, it was so nerve wracking. You can 202 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: hear the rest of that conversation at Here's the thing 203 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: dot org when we returned more of my conversation with 204 00:12:53,559 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: Dr Anthony Faucci. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to 205 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: hear is the thing? Now? More of my conversation with 206 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: Dr Anthony Fauci. Should we check our antibodies before getting 207 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: a booster? You mean a third shot if you've been 208 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: vaccinated first. No, And that's a firm answer to tell 209 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: your wife that boosters are given for the durability of protection, 210 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: as manifested by clinical observation both in the United States 211 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: cohorts that the waning of protection goes down. I mean 212 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,959 Speaker 1: the immune parameters go down too, but it doesn't really 213 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 1: matter when you look. It's clinically what counts, ALEC. So 214 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: it goes down for protection against infection and mild to 215 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: moderate disease, it goes down less so, but it still 216 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: goes down against protection against hospitalization and debts. We believe 217 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: that at least I do as a physician and a scientist, 218 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: that sooner or later, at the end of the day, 219 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: we're going to realize that that third shot is going 220 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: to be part of what the normal, complete, optimal vaccine 221 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: regiment is so in some respects, and I'll say this 222 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: it sounds crude, but it isn't. Is that I don't 223 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: really care what the level of anybody is. In your wife, 224 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: I think when her turn comes to get the boost, 225 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: she should get the boost. Can you mix vaccines? Our 226 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: friend had J and J and was recommended to get 227 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: a dose of maderna. Can you mix vaccines safely? It 228 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: is optimal to be given the same product that you 229 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: got originally. But the answer to your question is literally 230 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: in real time being answered. We're doing a grid of 231 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: mix and match. It's called whereas you take people that 232 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: have either gotten Moderna FISA or Jay and Jay. You 233 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: give them the third dose for an m R and 234 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: A and a second dose for J and J, and 235 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: you start. You give Moderna as the third dose, you 236 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: give J and J as the dose, you give FISER 237 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: as the dose, and you examine is it's safe and 238 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: does it induce an immune response that you would predict 239 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: would be protective. We're already finished with the MODERNA study. 240 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: The J and J study is going to be done 241 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: by the end of September the beginning of October, and 242 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: the FISER one will be done by the first the 243 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: second week. When I say done, Alec, I mean the 244 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: data will be collected enough to give to the company, 245 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,479 Speaker 1: which then will give it to the FDA for approval. 246 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: So we're almost there. Does this also include vaccines outside 247 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: the US like astra Zeneca. We are not doing the 248 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: mix and match yet. For astro Zenica, the Brits have 249 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: done that, So the data from the Brits have done that, 250 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: and it looks like there's not a problem there at all. Now, 251 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: I know you've been asked this question every ten minutes, 252 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna ask you anybody because it's my wife. 253 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure you understand. Um, when can we really expect 254 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: kids to get vaccinated? And will it be two shots? Okay, 255 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: your your wife is something in common with millions of 256 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: wives and mothers. So the answer is, as you know, Alec, 257 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: that adolescents from twelve up to seventeen now are already 258 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: with FISER approved to get vaccinated. The question your wife 259 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: is asking is eleven down to five and then ultimately 260 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: five to let's say six months. So Fiser has done 261 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: the study already in children from five to eleven. They 262 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: announced yesterday that they have completed the study. They will 263 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: be submitting the data to the f d A imminently, 264 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: he said, within days the f d A. You never 265 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: want to get ahead of them. You don't want to 266 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: predict what they're going to be able to do. But 267 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: if in fact they find that those vaccines are safe 268 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: and predictive of inducing an immune response that would be protective, 269 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: then it is likely if they approve it. Because I 270 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: always want to be careful, I don't get ahead of 271 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: the f d A. If they improve it, it very 272 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: likely will be before the end of October. Interesting, when 273 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: a mother is pregnant and she's vaccinated to do the 274 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: babies have antibodies. Yes, what happens is two things. The 275 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: anybody's go across the placenta to the baby. Number one, 276 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: so when the baby is born, the baby already has 277 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: the mother's anybody in his or her Sarah point number one. 278 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: If the mother breastfeeds, that's another source of anybody for 279 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: the baby. Now I'm gonna pivot here too. Things that 280 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: are more broader and more historical. I'm sure having been 281 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: through what you went through with the AIDS crisis, which 282 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: was a section of society, a relatively small section of society. 283 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: I mean that doesn't minimize the suffering. But now we 284 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: have something in which the entire country, as people have said, 285 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: it's changed the way we live forever. This thing has occurred, 286 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: and you are a man who is the face of 287 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: the United States government. Now, the weight of the world 288 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: is not all that on your shoulders. You've got colleagues 289 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: around the world that are working very hard in other 290 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: countries to fight this, but certainly the weight of this 291 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: country and how we live and how we don't live, masks, vaccines, distancing, quarantining, lockdowns, 292 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: all of this madness. How was this difference for you 293 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: where the entire country was looking to I've got a 294 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: variety of questions about this, the pressure on you. Did 295 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: you ever feel like my God, I don't know if 296 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: I can see this through. Did you ever have any 297 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: self doubts? Well, Alec, I have to tell you I 298 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: never have, and it isn't a question of self doubt. 299 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: Is that this is what I do, This is the 300 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: life I chose idea of God. Yeah, this is the 301 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: business we've chosen. Yeah, but you know, when you go 302 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: into global health and public health, you have to expect anything. 303 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: You know, HIV are absolutely correct, and I like the 304 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: way you framed it, because it actually is triggering in 305 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: my own mind, you know, another way. I'll have to 306 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: take the time to reflect on that. You're absolutely right, 307 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: it was a segment, generally, a segment of our population, 308 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: even though it's a global pandemic uh HIV is, which 309 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: is sort of an interesting distortion that we've had. What's 310 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: going on in Sub Saharan Africa is a much different 311 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: thing that's going on in the United States. But you're right, 312 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: you have to be paired when you're dealing with a 313 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: public health crisis. It's got to be driven by public 314 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: health principles. And one of the things that is different now, 315 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: and I've said this publicly many time, if there's ever 316 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: a time when you don't want societal divisiveness is when 317 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: you're in the middle of a pandemic. And one of 318 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: the things that has made life extremely unusual for me 319 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: is the fact that I am trying and I and 320 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: I do, and I've I've made the decision that's my life. 321 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: If I wanted to do something else, I would have 322 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: made the choice. I didn't expect that it would be 323 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: as public as it is, which you know is not 324 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: something that I seek or care that much about it's 325 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: the public health. It's the fact that when you go 326 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: into public health, when you're a physician and you're a scientist, 327 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: you have a responsibility as a physician to the individual patient, 328 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: and you have a responsibility to society as a public 329 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: health official, which are all Society becomes your patient and 330 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: you want to do everything that's best for the patient. 331 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 1: And one of the things that that has been very difficult, 332 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 1: I must say, but nonetheless you just gotta suck it 333 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: up and do it, is that at the same time 334 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: that you're trying to promote public health principles, you've become 335 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: not only disliked but hated by people. I mean, that 336 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: is something you just don't ever imagine when you're training 337 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: in a profession to help people to save their lives 338 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: as individuals, which I've done in the many, many, many 339 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: thousands of patients that I've taken care of, and as 340 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: a public health official. When I got involved in public 341 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: health issues, I never would have been imagined that the 342 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: politicization of a public health issue would have caused not 343 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: only pushback, but absolute scorn. You've gotten death threats, I have, 344 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: You've got you've gotten some of the extreme far edge 345 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: of that. But at the same time, beyond that, beyond 346 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: the insanity of that kind of thing. What's a criticism 347 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: of the work you've done that's been the most painful 348 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: for you. What's the one that you think they really 349 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: misunderstand what you're trying to do, you know, And it's 350 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: what they call saying since they don't understand, I believe 351 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: the scientistic acts. But he flip flops, he changes his 352 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 1: mind on things. Well, when you're dealing with an evolving 353 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: outbreak in which every week and every month you get 354 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: dated that you did not have last month, well last week, 355 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: it would be unconscionable for you do not to change 356 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 1: the way you think about things based on the current data. 357 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: And the thing they keep bringing up is the issue 358 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: early on with the use of masks. Ah, he said 359 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: you didn't really need to have masks back then, and 360 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: now he's out there saying everybody should be wearing a mask. Well, 361 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: the reason for the evolution in thinking is solid. It 362 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: had to do with availability, It had to do with 363 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 1: proof that they actually work. It had to do with 364 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: the realization, which was stunning Alec that more than fifty 365 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 1: of the infections were transmitted by someone who is without symptoms. 366 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: There's no other disease that can actually kill you by 367 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: a respiratory route. That is that people, half of them 368 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: don't have any symptoms. When we realize that, it became 369 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: clear that we really needed to do mass. But yet 370 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: people who want to be ultraly critical will say, and well, 371 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: you know, I could understand why, Oh, he flip flops, 372 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,719 Speaker 1: he flip flops on this, he flip flops on that. 373 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: You know, does it bother me? It does because you 374 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 1: don't like people to think that you're a flip flopper. 375 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: But you'd like to say, let me sit down with 376 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: you and explain that if you don't change your mind 377 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: with the evolution of the new information, then you are 378 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 1: really guilty of something that's not good. The only thing 379 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: worse than being perceived as a flip flopper is not 380 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: flip flopping, or exactly as you say, letting things evolve 381 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: is the it is a better phrase. Now let me 382 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: ask you this question, what grade do you give the 383 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: American people for the way that they responded to this 384 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: pandemic alec. I don't want to give it a grade. 385 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: And the reason I don't I do respect the fact 386 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: that you're asking a very reasonable question, but people will 387 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: watch this and the next thing we knew, it's the 388 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: sound bite of the year, spread across by people who 389 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,719 Speaker 1: don't mean me. Well, are you concerned about the way, 390 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: because what I was going to say is what I 391 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: wanted to say is a prelude. Is I view the 392 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: COVID pandemic as the dress rehearsal for the climate change 393 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: reality that's coming, where people are going to be asked 394 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: to make significant changes, to go without, to make sacrifices 395 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: about water usage and g usage so forth. I believe 396 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: that the COVID was the dress rehearsal for the climate 397 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: change that's looming. But what what? What are your thoughts 398 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: about how we've done There are many many people in 399 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: the country who have done it correctly and appropriately and 400 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: have considered not only their health the health of their family, 401 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: but the health of society. One of the things that 402 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: I find difficult is that I can't get the point 403 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: across two people that as part of society, with all 404 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: the benefits of being in society, you have a responsibility 405 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: to society and to say I don't want to get 406 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: vaccinated because I'll take my own chances. If I get infected, 407 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: let me worry about it. So what Well, that's not 408 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: the way it works, my friend. What it works is 409 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: that you could get infected and even get no symptoms 410 00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: or minimally symptomatic, and inadvertently, and I'll even is the 411 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: word innocently, pass it on to someone else a lethal dose, 412 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: a lethal dose. And that's the way you've got to 413 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 1: think about it. And you know, you talk about nobody's 414 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: gonna tell me to wear a mask, and nobody's gonna 415 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: tell me to do this, and nobody's gonna tell me 416 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: to do that. I get that, I understand the reluctance 417 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: to that. But when you match it against the fact 418 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: that already six hundred and eighty thousand Americans have died 419 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: and close to five million people worldwide have died, sometimes 420 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: societal interests should take precedence over your own feeling about 421 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 1: what your individual liberties are. Do you think that the 422 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: uh what I would call I'm not going to ask 423 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: you to call it this, but do you think that 424 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: the anemic condition of science education in this country is 425 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 1: a part of this suspicion that people have. I think 426 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: you're onto something really really correct there, alec I think 427 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: we really need to do much more so that everybody 428 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 1: gets at least a modicum of science education to understand 429 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: you don't have to understand the intricacies of science with 430 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: great formulas. You need to understand the importance and the 431 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: relevance of science in society. Well, one of the things 432 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: that I think would make it difficult, and I say 433 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 1: this with great respect, you are dazzlingly and effortlessly. You 434 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: handle the political side of these questions quite well. What 435 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: you need to do. I mean, you've got a job 436 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 1: to do, and part of it is to avoid unnecessary controversy. 437 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: But I'm wondering what it's like for you to be 438 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: You know, they go to the bullpen and they bring 439 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: in Anthony Fauci again. Anthony Faucci has called in to 440 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: help us to take on the pandemic. And you're a 441 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: scientist and you're standing alongside of president who's telling people 442 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: to drink bleach in order to address the COVID. What 443 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: can you say not about the former president himself, but 444 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: what could you say about the challenges of the early 445 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: days of the COVID and the back in March of 446 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: last year, were the things you knew we had to do. 447 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: Did you have strong feelings about things you wanted to 448 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: do and you realized that it was an uphill battle 449 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: to convince the people who were in charge. Yeah, so 450 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: I will answer your question directly, Alec. But one thing 451 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: I do want to make clear to the listeners of 452 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: this podcast that you said, you know they bring me 453 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: in from the bullpen. You know, I may have been 454 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: brought in, but we have a really, really good team, 455 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: and I want to make it clear that I am 456 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: thought of a very strong team. I'm probably may be 457 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: more recognizable than other members of the team, but they're 458 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: really a solid team already have. Yeah, please note that, 459 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: because I really do mean that sincerely, not just superficially, 460 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: but directly. Answering your question is that you always have 461 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: to let the science be your guide. I've told the 462 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: story multiple times, and I'll very briefly relate it now 463 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: because it really is what has guided me through advising 464 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: seven presidents is that the first time I walked in 465 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: to answer some questions of Ronald Reagan about the aid's outbreak. 466 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: You know, even before we knew a lot about it, 467 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: someone who is a wise friend of mine who worked 468 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: in former White Houses, told me I have a little 469 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: bit of advice for you. I would have hoped that 470 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: I would have come to that conclusion even without his advice. 471 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: But his advice was, when you walk into the White House, 472 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: whether to brief the President or other people in power, 473 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: just tell yourself when you walk through that awning to 474 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: the West wing, that this may be the last time 475 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: I'm walking into this space, because I might have to 476 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: tell the President or someone else something that's a truth, 477 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: but an inconvenient truth that they may not want to hear, 478 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: and the message may never got asked back again. And 479 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: that's what I've done. I've just told the truth. So 480 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: when things were being said during the last administration that 481 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: I found what contrary to the facts and the evidence, 482 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: I did not take any pleasure in contradicting a president 483 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: of the United States, because I have a great deal 484 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: of respect for the presidency of the United States. But 485 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: I had to disagree, and sometimes I was put into 486 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: the very awkward position of having to do it publicly. 487 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: I think you've seen that on TV during those press 488 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: conferences where the President would say something about hydroxychloric whan 489 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: or about something else, and then the reporter would ask me, 490 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: and I'd have to say, now is the moment You're 491 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: either going to have to tell the truth, maintain your 492 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: own integrity and possibly cannot get to ask back or 493 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: do the other thing, which would be unconscionable for me. 494 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: So I went with my integrity and I told the truth. 495 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: Now that triggered an incredible amount of backlash, not necessarily 496 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: from the President, to be quite honest with you, but 497 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: from some of the people around him who began doing 498 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: opposition research on me and writing editorials that I didn't 499 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: know what I was talking about. That was uncomfortable. I 500 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: I I did not take any pleasure in having to 501 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: speak about something that was contrary to what the president 502 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: was saying. You know, the people who throw darts at 503 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: me say, oh, I was just trying to bring down 504 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: the president. Absolutely not. I was trying to just tell 505 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: the truth. When I would watch you on TV back 506 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: in those days, it's what we call the highest form 507 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: of acting, which is your face gives away nothing, but somehow, 508 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: almost telepathically, we understand what's going on inside your your mind, 509 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: just in your eyes. The president would be holding forth 510 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: about hydroxy chloro quinn and the camera would cut to 511 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: you and to see you managing your thoughts and your feelings. 512 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: Like I would like we say, some of the greatest 513 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: acting I've ever seen was you maintain them self control 514 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: during these conferences. Now, let's say the President wants to 515 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: order that you can't get on a US airplane domestically 516 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: without showing a vaccination card. How does that happen? Meaning 517 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: does the President make that call the c d C, 518 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: the f d A, who's in charge there. Well, again, 519 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: just so that your audience is clear that this is 520 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: something that is discussed but is not actually implemented at 521 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: all or even decided on in fact what the president 522 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: has said, as you will know that if people refuse 523 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: to wear masks on planes, they will double the fine 524 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: just to make it more difficult for that. The process 525 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: will be that nothing like that would happen unless obviously 526 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: the President gives it the okay. But the mechanism whereby 527 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: it's implemented would very likely be some sort of a 528 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: recommendation from the c d C that would then be 529 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: implemented by the airlines, and they would be the ones 530 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: that would very likely monitor that. Now, I have some 531 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: friends of mine who are hardcore anti factors. Bobby Kennedy Jr. 532 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: Has been a friend of mine for decades, and he 533 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: comes out and not necessarily him, but other people, they 534 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: cast you in a very harsh light. They say that 535 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: you are the public health equivalent of a war profiteer, 536 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: that you are lining your pockets as a result of 537 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: these pandemics. Yeah, well, I like that is clearly all 538 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory. My finances are public knowledge, so my financial 539 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: statement that's required by my position will be very very 540 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: clear that I make zero when not a little zero. Uh, 541 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: And that's very clear, and anybody that knows anything about 542 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,439 Speaker 1: government regulations would know that. So I mean the things 543 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: that have been said about me and about my wife, 544 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: I mean that she's making millions too, like and she's 545 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: another government employee who has devoted her entire life to 546 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: the health of patients. But that's the world we live in. 547 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,959 Speaker 1: So that's just nonsense. That's a little fantasy. What's one 548 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: thing that anti factors? If anything, we're saying that you 549 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 1: kind of understand their fear and their trepidation. I have 550 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: always the same way that when the activists with HIV 551 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:43,240 Speaker 1: who are being confrontative and theatrical and iconoclastic, I always 552 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,919 Speaker 1: try to see is there something about what they're saying 553 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,439 Speaker 1: that I need to pay attention to. And I think 554 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: one can understand that if people don't understand what a 555 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: vaccine is and what it will do and what its purposes, 556 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: and they just feel somebody's injecting something into my body 557 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: and it's my body and I don't want to do it. 558 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: I try when I talk to people, that way to 559 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: go step by step with them is to what it 560 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 1: is that they object to and why do they object 561 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: to it, never ever ever being judgmental, because once you 562 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: start to be judgmental, then you've turned them off against 563 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,240 Speaker 1: you completely and it's a lost cause. But try to outreach. 564 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: The other thing, Alec is that the messenger is as 565 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 1: important as the message in that you want to get someone, 566 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 1: and we call it trusted communicators and trusted people in society. 567 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: So if you get someone who really is very very 568 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: much attuned to the church, whatever that church is and religion, 569 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: and you get someone who's a pastor a minister that 570 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: they trust to get them to sit and talk about it. 571 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:02,439 Speaker 1: Some people trust sports heroes or entertainment figures or very 572 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: famous actors like yourself that they would say, well, you know, 573 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 1: I kind of admire that person. If they say it, 574 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: don't think about it. Whereas if somebody like me who 575 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: is is an obvious public figure that works for the 576 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: federal government, they may instinctively not want to hear what 577 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: I have to say. So, even though a lot of 578 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: people do listen to what I have to say, there 579 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: are many people who feel differently. So you've got to 580 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: match the messenger with the receiver of the message. More 581 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: of my conversation with Dr Anthony Faucci. When we return, 582 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing 583 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: once again, my conversation with Dr Anthony Faucci. Now, during 584 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,800 Speaker 1: your career, your long career, and even looking back his 585 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: storically prior to when you were working in this field 586 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: of public health. Who's someone who's a hero of yours. 587 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: Who's someone who you know who dedicated their life to 588 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: the work you're doing now, who you thought did great work. 589 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: His name is Maurice Hilleman, and many people don't know 590 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: who he is. Maurice Hillerman was a man responsible for 591 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: the development of about twelve or more of the vaccines 592 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: that are given to children that have saved hundreds of 593 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: millions of lives. And he was a guy from Montana 594 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: who was a tough son of a gun who took 595 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: no prisoners, did what he felt was important, worked hard, 596 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 1: let the science drive what he did, and and didn't 597 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: care at all about credit or prizes or things. He 598 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,919 Speaker 1: just did his thing. So he's really one of one 599 00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: of my heroes. For preventing future pandemic. Some people recommend 600 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: the creation of a new federal agency to mount a 601 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: faster response at the first outbreak. For COVID nineteen, this 602 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 1: type of agency would have been stockpiling and then distributing 603 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: PPE for example, to be funded continuously, not just in 604 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,240 Speaker 1: the time of crisis. What's your feelings about that? Well, 605 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I would say an agency that would 606 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: be solely interested in the next pandemic. What the problem 607 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: you're going to run into, Alec, is that the space 608 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 1: between pandemics with me, What are they that they're gonna do? 609 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 1: You still need a c d C for surveillance of 610 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: things that are not pandemic. For all the public health things, 611 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: you still need an ni H to do the basic 612 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 1: and clinical research that quite frankly lad to the successful 613 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: vaccines in record time. Some people don't appreciate. It was 614 00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: the decades of research done by scientists that people never 615 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,359 Speaker 1: heard of. There was the Manhattan Project, Right, You've got 616 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: to be careful of creating a new agency. What we 617 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: do need is we need the current agencies to be 618 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: able to go into motion ahead of time. The n 619 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,799 Speaker 1: i H through the research for better prototype pathogen vaccines, 620 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: the CDC to get better surveillance, communication and local health, 621 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: the companies to be able to get the capability of 622 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: getting a vaccine and absolute record time. Now, if you 623 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: want to coordinating group above that to make sure that 624 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,879 Speaker 1: you get pandemic preparedness, that's fine. But to create yet 625 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,879 Speaker 1: again another agency might not be a great idea. Now, 626 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: looking out over the arc of the next year. Because 627 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 1: like everybody else, I was sitting at a table in 628 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: Brooklyn rehearsing a television program. We were about to shoot 629 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,399 Speaker 1: for five months all of March, April, May, June, blah, 630 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: blah blah. We were all getting ready to go. We 631 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: shut down, we go home, we go back in October, 632 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 1: and we had some pretty intense COVID protocols. The crew 633 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: had to wear smart watches, and there was a director 634 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: at a table and they had a system, whereby once 635 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: they cut the camera because everybody congregates to shoot the scene, 636 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 1: and once we cut the camera and we're going to 637 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: move on to the next shot, the next angle. The 638 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: system was engaged and everybody who was wearing the smart 639 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: watches and the crew, if you were within six ft 640 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: of the person for more than ten seconds, the watch 641 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: went off. They didn't want anybody around. We only had 642 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 1: four cases. We had five cases, and only one in 643 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,880 Speaker 1: the shooting crew. The other four were extras who came 644 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,359 Speaker 1: from outside of our bubble, so to speak. We had 645 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 1: one COVID case on a crew of two hundred people. 646 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: Production office, drivers, unitcast, everything, shooting crew, everything was It 647 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 1: was really everybody. What you see, as you know, is 648 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: people working so hard. Have my children's school. The people 649 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: are working. They're saying, please don't blow it. You know 650 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 1: what I mean. We got the kids in school, all 651 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 1: the staff has vaccinated, all the faculty is vaccinated. We're 652 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: moving along. It's like the little engine that could. You know. 653 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: We're trying to get the kids get back in school, 654 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: which is what we need, besides improving vaccination rates and 655 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,320 Speaker 1: going to whatever lengths we have to pressure people to 656 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 1: get vaccinated. What do you predict we're going to see 657 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,479 Speaker 1: over the arc of the next twelve months. What would 658 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: you like to see? Well, what I would like to 659 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: see is something that I know is scientifically true, is 660 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: that if we combine the successful implementation of vaccine, getting 661 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 1: those seventy million people who are eligible already to be vaccinated, 662 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: not counting your children who are not yet eligible, but 663 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: those who are already eligible, to get the vast majority 664 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 1: of the vaccinated at the same time that we make 665 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: a major effort about our responsibility for the rest of 666 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,399 Speaker 1: the world to get them vaccinated, so that we as 667 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 1: a leading rich country, together with the European Union and 668 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: Australia and Canada and all the others, to get the 669 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,760 Speaker 1: world vaccinated, because a global pandemic requires a global response. 670 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: Having said all of that, my arc of the next 671 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,279 Speaker 1: year is that, at least in this country, if we 672 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:36,839 Speaker 1: do that together with the kind of mitigation methods that 673 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,319 Speaker 1: you and your crew used, I believe that by the 674 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: time we get through this winter and into the spring, 675 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: and we get through it okay, and we get the 676 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 1: people vaccinated, we could start proceeding towards some sort of normality. 677 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 1: Now it is very difficult to predict because getting back 678 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 1: to a question you asked me before, if we don't 679 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,360 Speaker 1: get there, they'll say there he goes, he flip flopped again. 680 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: So I have to start off by saying a, I 681 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:11,280 Speaker 1: don't know, but be we have it within our power 682 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: to do this, you know, being with diseases, if I 683 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 1: might just take an extra thirty seconds, Alec, because it really, 684 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: it really is important having dealt with diseases in which 685 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: you don't have an effective remedy, you don't have a 686 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 1: vaccine or you don't have a therapy. To be with 687 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,319 Speaker 1: a disease in which you have the answer but you're 688 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: not implementing the answer is a very tough thing to swallow. 689 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:46,520 Speaker 1: It really is. Now, what's something that Dr Anthony Thauci 690 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 1: loves to do that he's not getting to do anymore 691 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 1: because of the COVID. How's it affected your day to 692 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: day life? Well, my my day to day life is 693 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 1: very unusual, Alec, because it is totally consumed. You know, 694 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: I could say something that is not whining about it. 695 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: It's true I haven't taken a day off in twenty months, 696 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,359 Speaker 1: and that's probably not healthy and kind of silly. My 697 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 1: wife keeps pushing me, and my friends keep pushing me. 698 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 1: But every time you think you're gonna take a day off, 699 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: there's something else that has to be done. People are 700 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 1: counting on you. Yeah, so you don't do it. What 701 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 1: I would love to do, is I did it recently, 702 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:26,239 Speaker 1: is to have my three daughters, who I adore easily 703 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,200 Speaker 1: able to come and visit me and to not be 704 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 1: afraid that they're going to get a breakthrough infection. They're 705 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: vaccinated and give it to their eighty year old father. Because, 706 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,320 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, you said something that resonated 707 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:42,799 Speaker 1: with me. You were joking about yourself that I'm eighty 708 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 1: years old and I'm late in life dad too. And 709 00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,320 Speaker 1: I have three girls, one as young as in her twenties, 710 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: so you can imagine I'm sort of I'm sort of 711 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:57,560 Speaker 1: in the same in common with your Wow. Now, my 712 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: last question is flu season. Are you concerned about blue season? 713 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 1: You know I am, And the reason I am is 714 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,359 Speaker 1: that I don't want people to get such fatigued with 715 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,080 Speaker 1: COVID that they do not get their flu vaccine. What 716 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 1: you don't want is the conflation of two outbreaks that 717 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,960 Speaker 1: are respiratory born. It will be confusing, it will be frustrating, 718 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,080 Speaker 1: and it will give the hospitals a big, big strain. 719 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: So if you've had the COVID injection, if they've had 720 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 1: both shots, go get the flu shot as well. Absolutely 721 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: absolutely interesting, Absolutely well listen, let me just say you know, 722 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,239 Speaker 1: you are someone who I can't imagine how you've lived 723 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 1: your life these last twenty much. You have had the 724 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,160 Speaker 1: weight of the world on your shoulders. You and your 725 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,239 Speaker 1: colleagues and everyone else you work with at your institution, 726 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,840 Speaker 1: and f d A and c d C, any government 727 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,440 Speaker 1: agency around the world that's working assiduously to try to 728 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: address this problem. These are people who have taken the 729 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:53,920 Speaker 1: weight of the world on their shoulders because we've never 730 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,160 Speaker 1: seen anything like this, and I pray to God we've 731 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,400 Speaker 1: never seen anything like this again. But I wanted to 732 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,360 Speaker 1: thank you for taking your valuable time to come on 733 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,759 Speaker 1: with us. Thank you very much, Alec. It has been 734 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,840 Speaker 1: a pleasure and an honor. I mean that, thank you 735 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:12,760 Speaker 1: for having me. Take care my thanks to Dr Anthony Fauci. 736 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: We're produced by Kathleen Russo, carried, Donna Hu and Zach McNeice. 737 00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Hi'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing. 738 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,400 Speaker 1: Is brought to you by my Heart Radio