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Speaker 1: Mother Teresa was always traveling, flying here, flying there. I

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Speaker 1: tend to think of her as living as part in life,

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Speaker 1: but of course she took planes like anyone else. Mary

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Speaker 1: Johnson remembers this one time in particular, the two of

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Speaker 1: them flew from Rome to Sweden. Mary was Mother's traveling

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Speaker 1: companion and assistant for the trip.

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Speaker 2: We were going there for an ecumenical conference where mother

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Speaker 2: was going to be honored and was going to give

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Speaker 2: a talk.

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Speaker 1: They boarded the plane in their blue and white sares.

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Speaker 1: Mary also packed two heavy boxes of miraculous metals, these

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Speaker 1: small religious tokens that Mother Teresa would kiss and hand

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Speaker 1: out to people. Mary and Mother Teresa settled into their

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Speaker 1: seats in first class. They booked economy, but Mary says

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Speaker 1: airlines always upgraded their tickets.

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Speaker 2: They're trying to avoid all that commotion that would happen

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Speaker 2: if people knew Mother Teresa was on the plane.

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Speaker 1: Mary says, Mother Teresa pulled on the sleeve of one

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Speaker 1: of the flight attendants and said.

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Speaker 2: All that extra food you know that people aren't eating,

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Speaker 2: that you're gonna have to throw away anyway, Could you

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Speaker 2: give it to me and I will use it for

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Speaker 2: the poor.

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Speaker 1: The flight attendant looked hesitant, awkward. She explained they had

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Speaker 1: to throw the food waste away. It was against the

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Speaker 1: rules to keep it.

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Speaker 2: And she said, oh no, just tell them Mother Teresa

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Speaker 2: needs it for the poor. They won't make any fuss

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Speaker 2: for you. And anyway, long story short, Eventually she went

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Speaker 2: around with a big black trash bag, collecting things from people,

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Speaker 2: and of course that's how people came to know that

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Speaker 2: Mother Teresa was on the plane. And then they all

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Speaker 2: started to come, one by one and standing next and

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Speaker 2: Mother would sign things for them and kiss the metal

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Speaker 2: and give it to them and pray with them and

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Speaker 2: all the rest of it. And when we finally landed

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Speaker 2: in Stockholm and we got out of the plane and

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Speaker 2: there was that the Catholic bishop and the Lutheran big

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Speaker 2: shot guy whoever he was in the Salvation Army general,

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Speaker 2: and they were all waiting for us there.

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Speaker 1: And his Mother Teresa met them. The flight attendant came out.

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Speaker 2: With these two huge trash bags full of sugar packets

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Speaker 2: and ketchup packets and salt packets and little candy bars

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Speaker 2: and whatever else. And you've had these big trash bags.

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Speaker 2: And Mother Tessa saw it, and she turns to the

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Speaker 2: Salvation Army general, and she says, you work with the poor,

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Speaker 2: don't you? And she gives him the two trash bags

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Speaker 2: full of all of these little things from the airplane.

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Speaker 3: And I don't have any idea what he did with them.

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Speaker 1: Hearing this story made me wonder about Mother treesa the person,

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Speaker 1: The woman who loved to hand out miraculous metals so

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Speaker 1: much she ran out. The woman who do anything to

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Speaker 1: save a few scraps of food, who was tough enough

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Speaker 1: to lead a worldwide organization until months before she died

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Speaker 1: at eighty seven. The woman who wrote she knew from

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Speaker 1: the beginning she was setting herself up for misery, all

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Speaker 1: in service to the poor. I wanted to know more.

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Speaker 1: She hadn't always been a living saint. She was young

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Speaker 1: once she had a whole interior life. How did Mother

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Speaker 1: Teresa at the Person become Mother treesat the Icon? I

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk with sisters still in the order, but

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Speaker 1: finding current sisters who would speak with us was not

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Speaker 1: easy to do. Gosh, I'm nervous, say my name's at

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Speaker 1: testing arenalist. Oh yes, my name is Erica Lance.

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Speaker 4: If you would be willing to chat with me for

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Speaker 4: a few minutes.

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Speaker 1: Or if there's somebody else, try next. A couple of

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Speaker 1: times a sister would answer a few questions as long

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Speaker 1: as we didn't record. Okay, I totally understand. Oh, you'd

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Speaker 1: need permission from the mother house. She said she couldn't

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Speaker 1: give me any I'm not I'm not interested in because

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Speaker 1: his sister personally no.

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Speaker 4: Also ended the conversation with God bless sorry, God bless you.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember which. That was a really quick no.

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Speaker 5: Wow.

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Speaker 4: I guess that's the way they say goodbye.

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Speaker 1: Most of the time they wouldn't talk. I'm getting the

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Speaker 1: sound that's still ringing, all right. That time I got

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Speaker 1: the busy sogno. Instead, they directed me to a regional house.

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Speaker 1: The regional houses would direct me to the Bronx House,

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Speaker 1: the main house in the US.

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Speaker 4: Oh gosh, just imagine they're in grand silence and this

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Speaker 4: phone is ringing and wark stuff.

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Speaker 1: The Bronx House sent me to the Mother Teresa of

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Speaker 1: Calcutta Center, which has an amazing website. By the way,

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Speaker 1: when you open it you hear music and Mother Teresa's voice. Antz.

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Speaker 1: But they sent me to the top the mother House

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Speaker 1: in Kolcutta and the Superior General sister Mary Prama Pierreic

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Speaker 1: Sister Prema declined to speak with me. In some respects,

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Speaker 1: the refusal to be interviewed makes sense. Mother Teresa wasn't

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Speaker 1: always very open with journalists. She was careful about which

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Speaker 1: writers and interviewers she talked to, so her followers don't

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Speaker 1: like to talk to journalists either. The missionaries of charity

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Speaker 1: are very protective of Mother Teresa and the organization. Early on,

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Speaker 1: I was warned by multiple people, they're not going to

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Speaker 1: talk to you, but some former sisters would, sisters who

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Speaker 1: knew Mother Teresa, who worked with her directly, who have

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Speaker 1: stories they haven't shared publicly before. When I say mother Teresa,

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Speaker 1: what comes to mind immediately for you?

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Speaker 5: Who she was? Because I know her, I know her well.

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Speaker 1: From Rococo Punch and iHeartMedia. This is the Turning I

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Speaker 1: America Lance, Part three.

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Speaker 5: Mother, I'm feeling I'm being much too open and not

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Speaker 5: guarded enough in a sense for something public. That's my fear.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I do he have some apprehension about this?

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Speaker 1: I don't think Sister Kathleen Hughes worried she'd tell me

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Speaker 1: something horrible or some major piece of dirt. I think

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Speaker 1: it's just that concern that any imperfect detail could take

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Speaker 1: away from all the good Mother Teresa did. In general.

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Speaker 1: One thing I've noticed is that part of Mother Teresa's

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Speaker 1: power is that she's a symbol. I think sometimes there's

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Speaker 1: a mindset that any blemish or misconstrule could take away

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Speaker 1: from that. And I mean think about it. As an MC,

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Speaker 1: you're essentially instructed not to talk much about your life

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Speaker 1: with the outside world, don't write about it in letters

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Speaker 1: to your family, don't discuss it with outsiders. So talking

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Speaker 1: to a journalist, I can see why that might feel

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Speaker 1: a little strange, even for exmc's. I can't speak for

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Speaker 1: Sister Kathleen, but it was clear she wasn't sure she

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk.

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Speaker 5: It was a definite no from me, and I'm sure

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Speaker 5: you felt that it was going to be a definite no.

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Speaker 5: And then the Holy Spirit just I don't know how

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Speaker 5: I did it. He was like, no, you're going to

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Speaker 5: do it, and I said, oh, okay.

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Speaker 1: Let me introduce you to Sister Kathleen.

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Speaker 5: I was twenty nine years a missionary of charity with

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Speaker 5: Mother Trece of Calcutta. I was our first American sister

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Speaker 5: to join from the United States.

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Speaker 1: Even though Sister Kathleen is no longer an MC, Jesus

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Speaker 1: is still her spouse.

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Speaker 5: I've lived the last seventeen years as a consecrated woman,

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Speaker 5: a consecrated virgin here in the Archdiocese of Boston.

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Speaker 1: A consecrated virgin is basically a woman declared sacred by

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, committed to a life of virginity as

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Speaker 1: a bride of Christ. She's not a nun per se,

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Speaker 1: but Sister Kathleen attends Mass daily and continues her mission

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Speaker 1: work in the community.

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Speaker 5: I'm very grateful to God for all my years in

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Speaker 5: whichever path He's led me. If I may say that.

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Speaker 1: Sister Kathleen was drawn to join the MC's the way

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Speaker 1: a lot of women were by a British documentary filmed

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine and Kolcutta called Something Beautiful for God.

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Speaker 1: When she was twenty years old. Sister Kathleen wasn't a

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Speaker 1: sister yet. She was a college student in upstate New

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Speaker 1: York at Syracuse University. She heard that Something Beautiful for

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Speaker 1: God was going to be screened there.

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Speaker 5: And when I arrived, somehow I mixed up the time

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Speaker 5: or was delayed, and I missed the film, and something

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Speaker 5: inside of me actually kind of gave a sigh of relief.

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Speaker 5: I don't know why, it was just instinctive, you know.

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Speaker 5: And I knew the guy who was the projectionist, and

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Speaker 5: he said, why don't you sit down? It's so good,

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Speaker 5: I'll just sit here and show it again just to you.

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Speaker 5: And I thought, oh, dear, I guess I'm going to

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Speaker 5: see this.

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Speaker 1: This film was a big deal because it showed a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who Mother Teresa was and it inspired

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Speaker 1: a lot of women to join her order, including a

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Speaker 1: number of the former sisters we spoke to. So I

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Speaker 1: wanted to watch it, and I watched it with Alan,

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Speaker 1: who's a producer on the show and also my sister.

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Speaker 1: So basically, there was this.

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Speaker 4: Guy, Malcolm Muggridge who was a TV commentator and filmmaker,

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Speaker 4: and he interviewed Mother Teresa in London for TV and

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Speaker 4: he honestly thought the interview wasn't very good.

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Speaker 1: I think he called it barely usable.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but they aired it anyway and it ended up

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Speaker 4: getting this huge response. So he decided to go to

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Speaker 4: Kolkata to make an entire film about her, and it's

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Speaker 4: this film something beautiful for.

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Speaker 1: God, It's an interesting film to watch. You see all

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Speaker 1: of these Indian locals who are in difficult situations. They're

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Speaker 1: sick or dying, they have leprosy. I doubt the film

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Speaker 1: crew ask their permission to film them. They don't talk

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Speaker 1: with them directly, they don't feature interviews with them. It's

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Speaker 1: like Muggrige is interested in what Mother Teresa is doing,

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Speaker 1: but not so much in the people she's doing it for.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And basically what happens is Mother Teresa shows Muggriage

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Speaker 4: around and at one point she comes up to these

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Speaker 4: cribs of babies just crammed in these cribs like sardines,

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Speaker 4: and she picks a baby up that's really a tiny baby,

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Speaker 4: and she kind of holds it out for the camera

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Speaker 4: and strokes the baby's head, and the baby.

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Speaker 1: Looks very sick. I could see if you are watching

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Speaker 1: this and you wanted to help people in the world,

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, these people need help. They're right in

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Speaker 1: front of you.

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Speaker 4: And that becomes even more clear when they go to

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Speaker 4: the Home for the Dying, where there are just rows

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Speaker 4: of cots of very thin looking people, their hair cut short,

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Speaker 4: and Mother Teresa tells Margridge that they've cared for over

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Speaker 4: twenty three thousand people.

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Speaker 1: There that half of them have died, and Muggridge asks

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Speaker 1: this question. He basically says that some people might say,

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Speaker 1: why keep these people alive at all?

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Speaker 4: And Mother Teresa says that she wants to show them

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Speaker 4: love before they die, and she quotes someone she says,

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Speaker 4: they live like animals, but now they die like angels.

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Speaker 1: Now they die like angels. Sister Kathleen watched all of

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Speaker 1: this alone in the auditorium in Upstate New York. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three, she joined the Missionaries of Charity, and

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Speaker 1: she remembers the first time she met Mother Teresa.

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Speaker 5: Somebody said Mother's here, and when I saw her something

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Speaker 5: struck me. I felt like I fell back a little bit.

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Speaker 5: There was a force, a power, a presence that moved

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Speaker 5: me somehow, and she said, come, come, and that's how

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Speaker 5: I met her.

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Speaker 1: In the early nineteen seventies, Mother Teresa was just at

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Speaker 1: the start of her rise to fame, but over the

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Speaker 1: coming years she'd become an international figure, meeting with the

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Speaker 1: likes of Kofiannan, Nancy and Ronald Reagan, Queen Elizabeth the

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Speaker 1: Dalai Lama. There were critiques of Mother Teresa, to be sure,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get to those. But in the public eye,

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Speaker 1: she was a living saint.

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Speaker 5: She could look right through you. She would look right

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Speaker 5: into your soul, into the depths of your soul.

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Speaker 6: I loved her she was. I mean, people say, well,

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Speaker 6: she's just human and all of that. Yes she was,

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Speaker 6: but she was a little bit above humanity.

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Speaker 1: Joan Worcester was a sister with the Missionaries of Charity

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties, and she said the same type

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Speaker 1: of thing about Mother Teresa.

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Speaker 6: And when you talk to her, you could that because

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Speaker 6: when she talked to you, she wasn't looking at you

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Speaker 6: like we look at each other and we're talking. She

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Speaker 6: almost looks through.

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Speaker 1: You, almost, Joan says, like she could see into your soul.

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Speaker 1: But what was in hers? It surprises me sometimes how

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Speaker 1: much is it known about Mother Teresa's life. The information

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Speaker 1: we do have is often clouded with inaccuracies, repeated over

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Speaker 1: and over. But here's what we do know. Mother Teresa

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Speaker 1: was born in nineteen ten in an Albanian family in

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Speaker 1: the city of Scorpia, now part of North Macedonia. Back

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Speaker 1: then her name was Anya s Gonya Boyaju. We think

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Speaker 1: of Mother Teresa as an impoverished figure, but her family

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Speaker 1: was pretty well off. When she was young, her father

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Speaker 1: was sort of a celebrity in their town. He was

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Speaker 1: a member of the town council, a businessman, and an activist.

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Speaker 1: But when she was around nine years old, her father died.

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Speaker 1: He may have been murdered because of his political activism.

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Speaker 1: A few months after that, seven more close relatives died.

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Speaker 1: It was the nineteen eighteen flu pandemic, and they'd gotten

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Speaker 1: the Spanish flu. Years later, when she was famous mother,

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Speaker 1: Teresa wouldn't publicly talk about her childhood much, but it

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Speaker 1: seems her Catholic family became even more religious after her

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Speaker 1: father's death and the loss of her other family members.

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Speaker 1: As she told Malcolm Muggridge, she felt the religious call

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Speaker 1: when she was just twelve years old.

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Speaker 7: And since then this forty years, I've never doubt it

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Speaker 7: even for a second, that I've done the right thing.

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Speaker 5: It was the will of God, that was his choice, and.

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Speaker 2: That has given you complete serenity and peace.

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Speaker 7: And happiness, the happiness that no one can take from them,

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Speaker 7: and has never been a doubt or unhappiness.

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Speaker 1: When she was eighteen, she joined the Loretto Sisters a

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Speaker 1: Roman Catholic order in Ireland known for its schools, and

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Speaker 1: so Anya's became Sister Mary Teresa. She chose the name

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Speaker 1: Teresa after Saint Terrez, a saint known for valuing simple

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Speaker 1: acts of kindness. The Loretto Sisters stationed Sister Teresa and Kolcutta, India,

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Speaker 1: the city she becomes synonymous with.

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Speaker 8: What happened was when Mother Teresa was here. You know,

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Speaker 8: she's saw white, a white run city.

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Speaker 1: This is Shantony Jacobardy. He's a history professor at the

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Speaker 1: University of Kolcutta and an expert on contemporary Indian history.

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Speaker 1: In the nineteen twenties and thirties, when Mother Teresa arrived,

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Speaker 1: India was under British rule.

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Speaker 8: Of course, there was a lot of colonial exploitation. Indian

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Speaker 8: industrialization was hampered to a large extent. But you know,

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Speaker 8: colonial connection also linked up India globally.

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Speaker 1: People are moving to Kolkatta from all over. There is

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Speaker 1: a Buddhist revivalist movement, and in the thirties it was

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Speaker 1: an epicenter to the country's film industry.

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Speaker 8: All the major movie studios were located here.

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Speaker 1: With the Loretto Sisters, Mother Teresa Todd at a school

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Speaker 1: for girls and later became headmistress. In nineteen thirty seven,

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Speaker 1: she took her final vows and, following Loretto custom, became mother.

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Speaker 1: She was no longer Sister Teresa. She was now Mother Teresa.

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Speaker 1: Then came September nineteen forty six. Mother Teresa's thirty six

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Speaker 1: years old. She's on a train to a retreat in

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Speaker 1: the foothills of the Himalayas, and she hears a voice.

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Speaker 4: The voice, as she called it, it was very clear

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Speaker 4: and distinct.

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Speaker 1: That's Father Brian Koladaichik. He's an MC priest and Superior

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Speaker 1: General of the MC Fathers. The one person from the

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Speaker 1: Missionaries of Charity who agreed to record an interview. He

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Speaker 1: edited the book on Mother Teresa's divine calling, compiled her

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Speaker 1: personal letters, and studied her spirituality. Father Brian says Mother

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Speaker 1: Teresa knew that the voice was Jesus and that Jesus

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Speaker 1: told her to follow a new calling. He said to quote,

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Speaker 1: give up all and follow him to the slums to

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Speaker 1: serve him in the poorest of the poor. In a letter,

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Speaker 1: Mother Teresa writes that Jesus told her, quote little one,

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Speaker 1: give me souls, Give me the souls of the poor,

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Speaker 1: little street children. He said, I want Indian missionary sisters

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Speaker 1: of charity who would be my fire of love amongst

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Speaker 1: the very poor. The sisters that would offer their lives

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Speaker 1: as victims of my love, would bring these souls to me.

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Speaker 9: Jesus will say, speaking of the poor, they don't know me,

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Speaker 9: so they don't want me. You go and be my life.

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Speaker 1: Her call came at a pivotal time in come Cutta's history.

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Speaker 1: August sixteen to nineteen, nineteen forty six is known as

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Speaker 1: the Great Calcutta Killing in India. Mother Teresa was there.

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Speaker 1: Here's Shantony Chakabardi again.

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Speaker 8: In nineteen forty six, you had severe communal rats in

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Speaker 8: the cities between Hindus and Muslims, as a result of

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Speaker 8: which you know, you had dead bodies festering in the

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Speaker 8: drains for five to ten days, a lot of people,

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Speaker 8: you know, killed or maimed for life.

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Speaker 1: Somewhere between five and ten thousand people died. This all

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Speaker 1: happened just a month before Mother Teresa heard that voice

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Speaker 1: on the train. Then, in nineteen forty seven, India gained

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Speaker 1: independence from Britain from the country was partitioned into India

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Speaker 1: and Pakistan. Violence broke out near the border with what

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Speaker 1: is now Bangladesh. Fifteen million people were displaced from their homes.

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Speaker 1: Refugees flocked to Kolcutta.

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Speaker 8: And the first thing which must have struck her was

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Speaker 8: the huge number of people simply living on the streets,

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Speaker 8: and she started catering to them and perhaps to her.

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Speaker 8: This strengthened a sense of mission.

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Speaker 1: After Mother Teresa's calling on the train, she experienced visions

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Speaker 1: for months. Father Brian writes that during this time she

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Speaker 1: enjoyed an intense degree of union with our Lord. He

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Speaker 1: likens it to a kind of spiritual ecstasy. Mother Teresa wrote,

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Speaker 1: I have been longing to be all for Jesus, to

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Speaker 1: identify myself with Indian girls completely, and so love him

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Speaker 1: as he has never been loved before. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was one of my many mad desires. She tells her

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Speaker 1: confessor what Jesus said. Eventually she tells the archbishop too.

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Speaker 1: She wants to start a new congregation of religious sisters,

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Speaker 1: as Jesus instructed, but she's rebuffed. They want her to

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Speaker 1: slow down. They need prayer and reflection and timed see

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Speaker 1: if her call is true. At one point to even

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Speaker 1: say she's not allowed to think about it anymore. Mother

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Speaker 1: Teresa obeys, but when they open the door, she goes

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Speaker 1: full force, writing letter after letter she needs to obey

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Speaker 1: Jesus's call too. Finally, after two years it pays off.

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Speaker 1: The Pope grants her permission to form a new congregation.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty, Mother Teresa officially founds the Missionaries of

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Speaker 1: Charity under the Archdiocese of Kolkatta. By the way, what

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Speaker 1: she created was technically a religious institute, not a religious order,

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Speaker 1: and they're not actually nuns, they're religious sisters. Nuns live

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Speaker 1: contemplative lives, while religious sisters are active out in the world.

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Speaker 1: But these terms are used interchangeably all the time, and

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Speaker 1: even former MC sisters will call themselves nuns. The Missionaries

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Speaker 1: of Charity started with just twelve sisters. At first, Mother

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Speaker 1: Teresa plans they'd live off of just rice and salt,

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Speaker 1: but she was advised that's not enough to survive on.

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Speaker 1: They were an inn Indian sorry is their habit. Mother

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Speaker 1: Teresa said. Jesus told her to quote, dress in simple

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Speaker 1: Indian clothes, or rather like my mother dressed simple and poor.

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Speaker 1: So Mother Teresa chose a sorry that resembled what women

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Speaker 1: who swept the street would wear the blue stripes and

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Speaker 1: the border would represent the virgin Mary and purity, and

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Speaker 1: their mission would be to serve the poor. But not

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Speaker 1: quite how most people understand it. I think Mother Teresa

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Speaker 1: often said that the Empces were not social workers because

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Speaker 1: for her, helping the poor was not an end in itself.

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Speaker 1: It was the means of expressing love for God. It

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Speaker 1: was all for God. Let me explain. In empty houses

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Speaker 1: around the world you'll find painted in big letters the

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Speaker 1: words I thirst. It comes from the Bible, the Gospel

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Speaker 1: of John, when Jesus is dying on the cross and

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Speaker 1: says I thirst. Mother Teresa interpreted his words metaphorically. She

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Speaker 1: said he thirsted not for water, but for love, for sacrifice.

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Speaker 1: She believed the MC mission was to satiate that thirst,

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Speaker 1: and the way to do it was to quote love,

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Speaker 1: suffer and save souls. Here's Mother Teresa addressing a group

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Speaker 1: of sisters before they take their vows.

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Speaker 10: We are fully consecrated to Jesus to serve the poorest

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Speaker 10: of the poor, and by so doing, to say she

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Speaker 10: it is tusts the tust of Jesus on the cross

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Speaker 10: for love for souls. By working at the salvation and

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Speaker 10: sanctification to the poorest of the poor.

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Speaker 1: In short, love the poor like you love Jesus and

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Speaker 1: bring souls to him. Or you could say conversion. Mother

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Speaker 1: Teresa knew this would be hard. Father Brian says, she

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Speaker 1: signed up for suffering.

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Speaker 9: Your vocation is to love and suffer and save.

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Speaker 1: Souls, to love, suffer and say and save souls.

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Speaker 9: Because she would say thirst, quench, say shiate Jesus, thirst

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Speaker 9: for love and souls.

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Speaker 1: And Mother Teresa did just that, even when her suffering

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Speaker 1: became great and she did suffer. This is how she

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Speaker 1: put it in her letters. In the work, there will

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Speaker 1: be complete surrender of all I have and all I am.

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Speaker 1: There will be nothing absolutely left. Most of us have secrets,

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Speaker 1: parts of ourselves we try to hide, and Mother Teresa

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Speaker 1: wasn't any different. She labored with a deep darkness, a

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Speaker 1: spiritual darkness, but none of the sisters and the congregation knew.

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Speaker 1: She kept it to herself.

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Speaker 7: I've never doubt it even for a second that I've

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Speaker 7: done that right.

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Speaker 5: Think it was the will of God, that.

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Speaker 2: Was his choice, that has given you complete serenity and

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Speaker 2: peace and happiness.

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Speaker 7: The happiness that no one can take from me. It

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Speaker 7: has never been a doubt or unhappiness in reality.

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Speaker 1: Almost immediately after she formed the MCS, the foundation of

400
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Speaker 1: her life cracked. That Jesus, who'd been speaking to her

401
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Speaker 1: calling her, he went silent. She couldn't feel God's presence anymore. Instead,

402
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Speaker 1: prayer felt dry. She wrote, there is such terrible darkness

403
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Speaker 1: within me, as if everything was dead, and it would

404
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Speaker 1: stay that way the rest of her life. Almost fifty years.

405
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Speaker 1: Mother Teresa's darkness was profound. She only told a handful

406
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Speaker 1: of people about it, her confessors and the Archbishop. She

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Speaker 1: wrote early on to him, your grace, there's so much

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Speaker 1: contradiction in my soul, such deep longing for God, so

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Speaker 1: deep that it is painful, a suffering continual no faith,

410
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Speaker 1: no love, no zeal. Souls hold no attraction. Heaven means

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Speaker 1: nothing to me. It looks like an empty place. But

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Speaker 1: to the world she smiled. By the nineteen seventies, Mother

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Speaker 1: Teresa's Order was booming. They'd expanded through most of South America,

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Speaker 1: and after the success of the documentary Something Beautiful for God,

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Speaker 1: they just kept growing. It seemed like Mother Teresa was

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Speaker 1: everywhere at once. She received international awards, empcy houses opened

417
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Speaker 1: around the world, including the US with a continent in

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Speaker 1: the Bronx. Despite her unyielding schedule, she still spent time

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Speaker 1: with sisters like Kathleen. Sister Kathleen remembers what she calls

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Speaker 1: the early days when Mother Teresa would visit the Bronx

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Speaker 1: in the summer.

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Speaker 5: She would come and the first thing we would do

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Speaker 5: was pack the van and go on the picnic with her.

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Speaker 5: It was so much fun.

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Speaker 1: Sister Kathleen remembers one of these picnics, someone had donated

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Speaker 1: a tin of chocolate chip cookies.

427
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Speaker 5: Homemade, which we never got. And one of the sisters

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Speaker 5: knew I loved cookies. She used to call me cookie Monster,

429
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Speaker 5: even though we didn't have a lot of cookies around.

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Speaker 5: But she brought this tin over to me, and my

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Speaker 5: eyes popped open and I showed great delight, and I

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Speaker 5: looked over the front of the van and I saw

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Speaker 5: mother looking at me. Mother Teresa, and I felt so embarrassed,

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Speaker 5: and so I composed myself. And we never saw those

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Speaker 5: cookies during the picnic. And it was on the way home.

436
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 5: I was driving the van and Mother Teresa got the

437
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 5: cookies and started breaking them up and was reaching from

438
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 5: behind me and putting them on my lap so I

439
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 5: could eat little pieces of cookies, and I think I

440
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 5: got more than anybody else too. She was so afraid

441
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 5: I would be left out, But that was her thoughtfulness.

442
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 5: She had that mother instinct with the sisters as well

443
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 5: as the poor.

444
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: Of course, Sister Kathleen has lots of fond memories of

445
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: Mother Teresa, like one groggy morning when she and Mother

446
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,959
Speaker 1: arrived in Rome after being up all night in an

447
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: airport for a layover.

448
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 5: I was dead tired. I was ready to drop, and

449
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 5: I said to the sister in charge there, please let

450
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 5: Mother go to bed.

451
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: Sister Kathleen insisted Mother get some rest. She hadn't had

452
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: any sleep.

453
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 5: Mother would not hear of it. Mother Teresa was not

454
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 5: going to bed, And I saw her go in and

455
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 5: sit down with these young postulants that were joining, and

456
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 5: her face became the face of an eighteen year old

457
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 5: with rosy cheeks, and I couldn't believe it. She wanted

458
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 5: to inspire them in her own quiet way. And I

459
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 5: went off to bed.

460
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: After these touching moments with her sister, she'd be off.

461
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: She received more awards, including the Nobel Peace Prize. She

462
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 1: opened a contemplative branch resisters, another one for brothers. She

463
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: added priests.

464
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 5: The congregation grew really exponentially for a congregation within a

465
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 5: founder's lifetime.

466
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: With this growth meant Mother Teresa worked constantly.

467
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 5: Every time she opened a new foundation, a new house

468
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 5: of sisters, she always had something to suffer. One time

469
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 5: she got up during the night to go to the bathroom,

470
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 5: and instead of the bathroom door, it was the staircase

471
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 5: to the basement, and she fell down the basement stairs

472
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 5: broke her arm. Another time she did something to her foot.

473
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 5: She said, every new foundation she had to suffer. She

474
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 5: had to make a sacrifice for it. It's mysterious, it's deadly,

475
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 5: and it's baffling medical science.

476
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 8: Acquired immune deficiency syndrol.

477
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 9: The gay plague, as AIDS has been called, is the

478
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 9: center of a political storm, the.

479
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: Moral majority claiming AIDS is God's punishment for the gay lifestyle.

480
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,719
Speaker 1: On Christmas even nineteen eighty five, Mother Trees opened one

481
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: of the first AIDS hospice centers in the United States.

482
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: It was a fourteen bed guest house in Greenwich Village.

483
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: To our aviator sunglasses and a stony expression to the

484
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: press conference, all business more lou reed than the Saint

485
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: of the Gutters. Sister Kathleen was an MC at the time.

486
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 5: We would take the people that really had no place

487
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 5: else to go. We didn't have televisions for them and

488
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 5: all the amenities. It was really bare bones.

489
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: After New York they opened eights hospices in other cities.

490
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 5: That was a very controversial move. There was a lot

491
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,959
Speaker 5: of opposition from the neighbors, particularly in Washington, and they

492
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 5: would have meetings and they would present these hypotheses. If

493
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 5: somebody up at the aid's home blows their no or

494
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 5: bleeds into a Kleenex or something and drops it on

495
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 5: the ground, and then my dog grabs the kleenex and

496
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 5: brings it to my house, are we all going to

497
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 5: be contaminated. They did not want us in their neighborhood,

498
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 5: but Mother was determined.

499
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: Did you get a sense were any sisters scared when

500
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: opening these AIDS homes so early on?

501
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 5: None of us would ever express that, because it's like

502
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 5: being in the army, you're prepared for war. In a sense,

503
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 5: we were always in a war of good against evil.

504
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: In the nineteen nineties, Americans agreed Mother Teresa was the

505
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,959
Speaker 1: most admired woman in the world. In an annual Gallupole twice.

506
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 2: Everybody in Rome knew who Mother Teresa was and she

507
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 2: would be accosted every.

508
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: Mary Johnson says Mother Teresa drew huge crowds, especially at

509
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: professions when new groups of sisters professed their vows.

510
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,239
Speaker 2: People would fill the church every time, no matter how

511
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 2: big it was, and on the way from the church

512
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: to the convent, we'd have to form like this kind

513
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 2: of honor guard.

514
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: The sisters surrounded Mother Teresa to hider when they walked

515
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: in public, but the saris were a dead giveaway. Eventually

516
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: they came up with a new method using Vatican ushers.

517
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 2: These are big guys and they would come and form

518
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: like a circle around Mother Teresa walking from the church

519
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 2: to the convent, just so that people wouldn't wouldn't crush her,

520
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 2: literally crush her wanting to touch her.

521
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: Sister Kathleen says Mother Teresa didn't enjoy the attention.

522
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 5: Once we were in the airport with her and a

523
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 5: woman came up to her and said, oh, Mother Teresa,

524
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 5: I'm writing a book about you. I can't believe you're

525
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 5: here and to meet you. And Mother Teresa looked at

526
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 5: her as though she had two heads. So puzzled looking,

527
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 5: and she said to the woman, have you nothing better

528
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 5: to do? The last thing on Mother Teresa's mind. With

529
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 5: any notoriety publicity, she found it a terrible burden.

530
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 2: Actually, she hated to have her picture taken. She just

531
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: genuinely hated it.

532
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 5: So she said, I told the Lord for every photo,

533
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 5: I want a soul out of purgatory to go to heaven.

534
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,479
Speaker 2: And that was the only reason that she would agree

535
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: to get her photo taken.

536
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of photos taken of Mother Teresa.

537
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 2: Oh a gazillion Gazilian purgatory has to be empty.

538
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: Right close to it. At this point, people already saw

539
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,719
Speaker 1: her as a saint. They're pretty sure she'd be can someday,

540
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: and Mother Teresa saw the possibility.

541
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 2: To one day. I remember so much. She had all

542
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 2: of us gathered around and she told us, you know,

543
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: I think all of you should hurry up and die,

544
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: and is what you should all hurry up and die,

545
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: because this pope is canonizing everybody WHOA completely WHOA. It

546
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 2: also didn't feel like her commanding us all to die. Okay,

547
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: let's be clear, but it confirmed to me something that

548
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: I had very long suspected, that being named a saint

549
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: was something very significant in Mother Teresa's eyes.

550
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 5: When I think of looking at Mother's face, I remember

551
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 5: it as tired and in later years like stretched, stretched,

552
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 5: with a kind of gravity of burden of labor. And

553
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 5: she asked Pope John Paul the Second, what am I

554
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 5: to do? I have all these invitations and at the

555
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 5: same time I have the responsibility for the congregation. And

556
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 5: he said, you give loving care to the people, and

557
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 5: then you give necessary attention to the sisters.

558
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 2: Give necessary care to the sisters, but loving care to

559
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 2: all the people. And she took this to mean that

560
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 2: the Pope and therefore God wanted her to limit her

561
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: time with the sisters to what was only essential, and

562
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 2: to spend all the rest of it accepting all of

563
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: these invitations. She was getting to give speeches, to receive doctorates,

564
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 2: to whatever, And this's not what she wanted.

565
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: At the risk of overstating it, Mother Teresa became a

566
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: victim of her own success, as she would put it,

567
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: a willing victim of Jesus's love. One expert told me

568
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: Mother Teresa was used by individuals, institutions, and countries for

569
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 1: their own purposes. But he said Mother Teresa was shrewd.

570
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: She had her own mission, and as he put it,

571
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: she used her users just as much. One of the

572
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: more unusual images of Mother Teresa was filmed on a

573
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: street in the Bronx in nineteen ninety seven, Mother Teresa

574
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: and Diana, Princess of Wales holding hands. Mother Teresa and

575
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: her sorry and Sandal's Princess Diana in a suit and heels.

576
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety seven, Mother Teresa was very ill. She'd

577
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: had three surgeries in the previous year. Her recurring hard

578
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: issues were getting worse. Plus, according to the Associated Press,

579
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: she had London kidney problems too. In just a couple

580
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: of months she would die. Princess Diana visited because of

581
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: Mother Teresa's poor condition. It wasn't the first time they met.

582
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: Mary Johnson remembers she was there in Rome a few

583
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: years earlier, in nineteen ninety two.

584
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 2: For me, Diana and Mother had so many things in common.

585
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 2: Was it was crazy.

586
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: It does seem crazy, given how differently they lived, the

587
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: class difference alone, but they were both icons in the

588
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties and nineties, sort of symbols of love, promoting

589
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: humanitarian causes and advocating for the downtrodden. They both navigated

590
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 1: old institutions, won the Catholic Church, the other the British monarchy,

591
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: both of them.

592
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: Working within these very closed systems, these very demanding traditional

593
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 2: roles of one sort or another.

594
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 1: And both of them had internal suffering they tended to hide.

595
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: Princess Diana once said public side was different, obviously from

596
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: the private side.

597
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 3: Public side they wanted a pair of and set.

598
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 2: Touched them and everything returned to gold, and all they're worried,

599
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 2: we've forgotten.

600
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 7: Sure did they realize that the.

601
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 3: Individual was crucifying herself inside.

602
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: On the day of princes Diana's first visit, Mary Johnson

603
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: woke up at her usual four forty in the morning.

604
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: Paparazzi were already crowded around the convent. That afternoon, Diana

605
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 1: arrived by limousine, and.

606
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 2: Mother told me, don't let anyone else in the chapel,

607
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: and just Mother and Diana for now, all right, And

608
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 2: so I kind of stood guard out there, not letting

609
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:39,919
Speaker 2: anybody else in.

610
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: Mother Teresa removed her worn out sandals, and Diana took

611
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: off her shoes.

612
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: Too, and Diana these beautiful black pumps, and these two

613
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: shoes were the only ones right outside the chapel, and

614
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 2: you saw the shoes and these two women inside praying,

615
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: and it was beautiful.

616
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: Well Diana visited her again five years later in the Bronx.

617
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: Mother Teresa looked pale. After they both waved to the crowd.

618
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: Lady Died bent over to say goodbye to Mother Teresa

619
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: with a hug and a kiss, and then drove off.

620
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: It was the last time they would see each other.

621
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: Princess Diana died in a car crash six weeks later.

622
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: Mother Teresa died a week after that. She was eighty seven.

623
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: According to testimony, On the day of her death, she

624
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: lay in her room at the mother House in Kolcutta.

625
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: Her breathing was labored, She complained of back pain, and

626
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: an hour and a half before she died, there is

627
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 1: a power outage. The lights went out in Kolkatta. During

628
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: her life, Mother Teresa had her critics, harsh critiques Behind

629
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: her simple message of love, they saw something else.

630
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 9: I would say that practically everything about Mother Teresa is

631
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 9: a result of myth, conscious lies and hyperbole.

632
00:39:43,080 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: Next time on the Turning. The Turning is written by

633
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,399
Speaker 1: Allen Lance, Lester and me. Our producers are Allen Lance

634
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: Luster and Emily Foreman. Our editor is Rob Rosenthal. Andrea

635
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 1: Assuage is our digital producer. Fact checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado.

636
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,439
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Amy Gaines, Sarah Ohlunder, Catherine Joyce, Beth

637
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: Ann Macaluso, Travis Dunlap, and consulting producer Mary Johnson. Her

638
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 1: memoir and Unquenchable Thirst provided inspiration for this series. Our

639
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: executive producers are Jessica Alpert and John Trati at Rococo

640
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: Punch and Katrina Norville at iHeartMedia. Our theme music is

641
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: by Matt Reid. For photos and more details on the series,

642
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Roccoa Punch. You can reach

643
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: out via email to the Turning at Rococo Punch dot

644
00:41:05,600 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: com I America. Lance, thanks for listening, Oh