WEBVTT - Looking Back at 2018 with Al Gore and Michael Barbaro (Part Two) 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:07.440 This podcast is sponsored by a d T. A d 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:10.320 T can design and install a smart home just for 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:14.560 you back by seven protection, like Doorman Service, which is 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.759 an a d T automation that actually unlocks the door 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.439 for packages, friends or your kids, or Turned Down Service 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.280 that's an a d T automation that arms your system, 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:27.840 locks your doors, and turns down your lights and thermostat 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:30.720 very eco friendly. They're all controlled from the a d 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.520 T app or the sound of your voice, and they're 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:37.360 back by seven protection. 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Hey Brian Hi Katie 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:21.080 and High to all of our listeners. Before we begin 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.720 today's show, we wanted to share a little news. After 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.520 two and a half years of making this podcast, Brian 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:31.080 and I have decided that today will be our last episode, 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.720 at least for a while. Think of it as we'll 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:38.280 see you later and not necessarily goodbye, more of a 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:41.560 of an au revoir, if you will. We're taking a 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:45.840 break because we have not bigger fish to fry, but 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.280 other fish to fry. Right Brian, this is true. Um. 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:53.120 Katie's production company is taking the world by storm, producing 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:58.240 tons of shows both online and in other platforms. I 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:02.160 am trying to figure out my plan for but we 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.560 fear not, dear listeners, fear not, You will hear from 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:10.000 us again in the not so distant future in some way, 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.880 shape or form. And I, for one, have loved doing this. 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:19.520 I'm such a huge fan of my colleague Brian Goldsmiths, 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.360 and I've loved spending this time together with him, and 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:27.560 of course, our incredible group here at Stitcher has been 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:30.280 a real joy to work with and so we're gonna 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:34.280 miss being together every week. But again, we've got a 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:38.080 lot of things up our sleeves. So two words, stay 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:41.200 tuned and working with Katie has been a joy and 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.280 a privilege every single day, and I will I will 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:46.920 miss that, although I am very confident we will stay 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:51.280 in touch quite frequently in the weeks and months ahead. Um. 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.680 But we're not done quite yet. We still have a 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.080 very special show today. This is part two of our 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:01.000 look back at the year eighteen. This week we're talking 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.440 about the year in climate change with former Vice President 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:08.480 Al Gore, someone I admire enormously, and then we'll talk 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.880 about the year in news and politics with someone else 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.280 I really like, Michael Barbarrow, who hosts The Daily from 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.240 the New York Times. We're big fans of The Daily. Meanwhile, 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:20.920 we're starting with the Vice President. And of course I 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:24.119 have known Al Gore for a long time. I think 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.720 I first covered him back in nineteen ninety two. Jesus, 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.440 I'm old, aren't I. During his terms as a representative 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:35.320 and then Senator from Tennessee, he was already passionate about 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:39.400 the environment and very interested in climate change. In fact, 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.560 he published his first book on the environment back into 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.080 the same year he and Bill Clinton were elected to 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.160 the White House. Of course, after eight years as Vice President, 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:53.320 Gore ran for president in the infamous or famous two 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:57.760 thousand election against George W. Bush. Gore won the popular 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:01.000 vote but lost in the electoral college. Some say he 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.120 lost in the Supreme Court, but we're not going to 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:07.440 go there. Um. After that debacle, Gore left politics for 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:11.640 good and really focused on his passionate advocacy on the 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:14.920 climate issue. And that's why in two thousand and six 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:19.400 he released a book and documentary, both titled An Inconvenient Truth, 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:23.360 that detailed the impending climate disaster, and in two thousand 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:27.520 seven he won the Nobel Peace Prize for his environmental work. 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:29.800 In the years since two thousand, al Gore has also 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.440 been very involved in Silicon Valley tech has been a 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.000 huge passion of his. He's on the board of Apple, 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:39.000 among other things, and he's also founded the Climate Reality Project, 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.080 which is a big nonprofit devoted to solving what he 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.080 calls the climate crisis. So he's been very busy, and 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:48.640 we're going to be talking him primarily about the environment. First. 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.440 I wanted to know, given the devastating California wildfires and 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:55.680 hurricanes on the Eastern seaboard that we saw this year, 0:04:56.480 --> 0:05:11.479 what role has climate changed played in two thousand team. Well, 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:17.560 the impacts of the climate crisis are growing much more severe, 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:22.840 uh and much more frequent. And the latest report by 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:27.560 the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change got the attention of 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:31.640 millions of people around the world, and it was followed 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:37.440 by the devastating hurricanes you mentioned, and these incredible fires 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:42.200 this year that have been so devastating in California and 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:46.920 in other parts of western North America and around the world. 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:51.480 By the way, these are global events. Every night on 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:53.880 the TV news is like a nature hike through the 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.920 Book of Revelation now, and I think that people are 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:03.440 are are responding to Mother Nature's advocacy far more than 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:08.240 to the advocacy of those of us who are activists 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.000 on this issue. But we're trying to do our part 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:16.280 as well. I think that the entrenched opposition to really 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:21.480 solving this crisis h still comes from a dark money 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:27.400 provided by large carbon polluters, the American Petroleum Institute, the 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:32.760 Koke Brothers, some of the large oil companies, even some 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.560 who publicly proclaim they've changed their minds and are not 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:42.680 fighting action anymore. Whenever there's a serious proposal, they pour 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:48.440 in the money. But overall, we are seeing tremendous momentum 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:52.880 for the solutions to the climate crisis. Some of it's 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:58.680 uh due to technological advances, the stunning reductions in the 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.760 cost of electricity from the sun and the wind, and 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:07.000 stunning reductions in the cost of batteries and electric vehicles 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:12.440 and all kinds of efficiency improvements. This is a really 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:16.640 changing the global picture. Sometimes I get confused out when 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:20.200 I see these fires, and I watched these hurricanes, and 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:25.680 I get confused about the direct link between climate change 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.480 and these catastrophic events. What is the link? I mean, 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:33.960 can you say that these wildfires are because of climate change? 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:39.200 Here is the connection, Katie. The accumulated amount of man 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:44.040 made global warming pollution in the thin shell of atmosphere 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.240 surrounding our planet. You know, it stays. We're putting a 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:52.440 ten million tons every day into the atmosphere as if 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.440 it's an open sewer, and it stays there for more 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.360 than a thousand years. The majority of it, and the 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:01.640 accumulated amount of man made global warming pollution is now 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:07.119 trapping as much extra heat energy every day as would 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:12.200 be released by five hundred thousand herosia mclass atomic bombs 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.000 exploding every twenty four hours. Day in and day out. 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:20.040 That extra heat energy evaporates a lot more water vapor 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.040 off the oceans into the sky, and the so called 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.320 atmospheric rivers carry it over the land, and so we 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:31.280 get these massive downpours uh, four times more common than 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:36.200 in even And the same extra heat pulls the moisture 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.880 out of the soil and the vegetation, so you get 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.840 both the droughts and drying trees and dead trees that 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.720 are kindling for these fires. Uh. And you get much 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:54.120 more powerful hurricanes and much larger town pours. So Mr 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:56.400 Vice President, I have a hard time calling you out. 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:02.000 I want to step back and talk about why we're 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.360 in the position that we're in at this moment. You 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.800 mentioned the Koch Brothers and some of the kind of 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:12.680 carbon polluting interests. Do you basically hold them responsible for 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:17.560 the reason it's been so hard to convince the public 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.760 of the magnitude of this Well, I think they're one 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:25.600 of the major reasons. Yes. Um, the large carbon polluters 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:32.559 have spent a couple of billion dollars in sewing confusion 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.560 and false s doubt. They took the playbook of the 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:41.000 tobacco companies and use some of the same pr firms 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:46.400 and lobbyists. The tobacco companies hired actors and dress them 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.040 up as doctors and put them in front of cameras 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:54.000 and teleprompters to falsely reassure people that there was no 0:09:54.120 --> 0:10:00.360 medical reason to avoid smoking cigarettes. Well decades later, they've 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:05.439 documented how the large carbon polluters spend enormous amounts of 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:13.480 money to intentionally confuse Americans and paralyze legislative bodies to 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.720 prevent to action. They're losing this battle, but they are 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:23.040 delaying actions still. The grassroots opinion, more than two thirds 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:27.000 of the American people know this UH is real. College 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.880 young Republicans, by the way, are now UH saying their 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:33.559 party has to change as well. A lot of businesses 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:40.360 are providing leadership. But you know UH. In Tennessee, the 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.240 farmers have an old saying that if you see a 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.360 turtle on top of a fence post, you can be 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.520 pretty sure it didn't get there by itself. And and 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:53.320 if if you see persistent levels of climate denial in 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.720 the US, unlike in any other country, you can be 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.520 pretty sure that didn't happen by itself either. It's very 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:07.000 hard to find an established, much less respected scientific voice 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:13.480 that disagrees with the consensus. The level of certainty exceeds 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:17.720 that linking smoking to lung cancer, and it almost approaches 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.920 the certainty about the existence of gravity. But on the 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.199 other hand, there was a gallipole earlier this year that 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:27.400 showed that only eighteen percent of Republicans believe that global 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:31.480 warming will pose a serious threat in their lifetime. And 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:35.120 and this country elected a climate change denier as president. 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:39.480 So it seems like the experts haven't really made the 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:43.160 sale here. Well, let me unpack that that that question. 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.960 First of all, of course, as you know, there's the 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:53.040 fabled tribalism in our politics now, and there is, of course, uh, 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:56.920 something else at work. And when there is a general 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:02.920 uneasiness about the state of the world and a general 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:09.120 feeling of doubt, then that that creates conditions for a 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:13.520 demagogue to come in with with falsehoods and uh and 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:17.280 false expansive promises. And I think we've certainly seen that, 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:22.240 and we've seen a wave of populist authoritarianism in other 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.880 countries as well. Part of it is the global financial 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:28.760 crisis in two thousand and eight, uh uh, and I 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:34.440 think that was a real trigger for the real disaffection 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.960 and hostility against elites and experts of any stripe. I mean, 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.080 you know, you can go deeper into this, but I 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.319 think that's a fair summation. And add to that, this 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:48.840 issue of the climate crisis is inherently complicated, and it's 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.200 global in scope, and we're not used to thinking in 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.560 those terms, and it plays out over longer time periods 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.720 than our political system is used to dealing with, and 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.560 so and and and the final element would be just 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:05.000 sort of garden variety denial. It's hard to think about 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:10.560 difficult threats that are scary and solutions that are now 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:15.920 readily available but seem to require overcoming the inertia in 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:18.960 in our devotion to patterns that have existed for a 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:21.680 long time. It also seems to me out that people 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:26.240 have a hard time dealing with problems that are not 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:30.160 necessarily immediate, and that's one of the problems I think 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:35.839 with climate change. Similarly, the causality. Sometimes people don't understand 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:42.680 that events like wildfires and flooding and hurricane is seriously 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:48.640 exacerbated by climate change. Yeah. Well, I think that part 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:54.560 of human nature is that we are more prepared to 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:59.760 respond immediately to the kinds of threats that are and 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:06.400 sesters survived, you know, a snake, other humans with weapons. Uh. 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:10.760 These are the things that we're hardwired to respond to immediately. 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:16.000 And when we face a much greater danger that has 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:22.080 to be UH perceived with the assistance of our analytical capabilities. 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:28.680 Were capable of that too. We've demonstrated that throughout history, 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.040 but it takes more effort. And in fact, al I 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.800 was going to mention, I recently read that the ozone 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:38.400 layer was closing up because of actions that were taken 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.880 to do just that. And that is an example that 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:47.840 shows when we take action, things can change, right. Yes, absolutely, 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:52.600 And back in the mid eighties, the scientific community UH 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:58.600 made this alarming discovery that a certain kinds of chemicals 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.440 that had only been used for about fifty years were 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:06.080 destroying that stratosphere go zone layer that filters out the 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.280 UV radiation and keeps it so that it only gives 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.040 a sunburn instead of killing us. That that it was 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:18.360 deteriorating rapidly, and within one year, Margaret Thatcher in the 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.720 United Kingdom, who had a chemistry a degree, enlisted the 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:27.560 cooperation of her dear friend of President Ronald Reagan. They 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.160 took action and now we are on the way to 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:34.840 solving that crisis. Now here's the difference, Katie. Those chemicals 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:39.680 that were causing that catastrophe were a very tiny part 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:44.360 of the global economy. The company's making it fought against it, 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.920 but they but they were defeated. Now, the problem is 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.440 c O two and methane and other gases, But the main, 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.400 the heart of it is CEO two, and that comes 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:59.920 from the fuels that still provide of all the inner 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:04.040 g in the global economy. And there are alternatives for 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:08.760 them as well. But there are vested interests and established 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.600 patterns of behavior that are more difficult to change and 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:18.760 overcome than it was when we successfully solve the stratospheric 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.560 zone layering problem. Clearly, President Trump is not on the 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.600 same page as you are. To put it mildly, here's 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.880 what he said not too long ago on sixty minutes 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:33.240 about global warming. Do you still think the climate change 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:37.160 is a hoax? Look, I think something's happening, something's changing, 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.320 and it will change back again. I don't think it's 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.480 a hoax. I think there's probably a difference, but I 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.600 don't know that it's man made. I will say this, Um, 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.800 I don't want to give trillions and trillions of dollars. 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.800 I don't want to lose millions and millions of jobs. 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.880 I don't want to be put a disadvantage. I'm not 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:59.280 denying climate change, but it could very well go back. 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.080 You know, we're talking to about all that's the nine 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.880 of views. They say that we had hurricanes that were 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.960 far worse than what we just had with Michael who 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.399 says that, they say people say that India. But what 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.159 about the scientists who say it's worse than ever. You 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.639 have to show me the scientists because they have a 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.399 very big political agenda, lest like I can't bring the 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:22.440 managers also have a political agenda. What has your reaction 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:28.520 been to the President's position on this? Well? Uh, you know, 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.400 if you want to go into the Trump cul de sac, 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:35.199 we may not escape from it. I don't know. I 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:39.040 mean whenever, every time a new outrage comes along, I 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.000 have to download some existing outrage to make room for 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:47.399 the new outrage. Uh. And just to take a couple 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:52.199 of points from his comment, uh that it will change back. No, 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:56.879 it won't change back. Uh No, because we're putting a 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:02.240 million extra tons every day, uh and into the sky 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:06.480 and adding it to this blanket of heat trapping gases 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.200 that is causing the problem. Uh, it can go back 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:16.560 if we change our behavior. Now. The the idea that 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:21.960 the scientists have some political agenda, it's an insult to 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:28.119 these uh scientists. They do it on volunteer time. Uh. 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.600 They won the Nobel Prize. They continue their work. They're 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.879 they're they're among the most respected women and men uh 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:39.720 in their fields in countries all around the world. And 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.320 by the way, as I said before, they've been proven right. 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:47.920 What they predicted decades ago is playing out on our 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.720 television screens and in the lives of people living in 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:56.240 cities that are being hit hard right now. So, UM, 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:01.960 this is wilful denial. This is is a global crisis. 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.960 You know, the President set up this prototypical battle between 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.320 industry and jobs on the one hand and the environment 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.280 on the other. Is that really the choice that we're 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:18.520 facing here? No, the choice actually switching to renewable energy 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:21.719 that saves us money and and by the way, it 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.919 creates jobs. The fastest growing job in the United States 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:29.080 of America today, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:34.400 is solar installer. Those jobs are growing nine times faster 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:38.600 than average job growth. The second fastest growing job is 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:42.280 wind turbine technician. We're in the early stages of a 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:47.119 sustainability revolution all around the world that has the magnitude 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.959 of the industrial revolution, but the speed of the digital revolution. 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.760 Electricity from solar and wind is now cheaper in the 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:59.000 majority of locations around the world than electricity from burning 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.760 fossil fuels. End. The fossil fuel electricity keeps getting more 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:07.000 expensive and also produces local air pollution, which kills almost 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:10.320 ten million people a year. Air pollutions the new smoking, 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:17.080 whereas the renewable electricity is pollution free, creates jobs, makes 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:21.520 our economy more efficient, and it keeps coming down in 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:26.040 price year after year after year. This is the future. Uh. 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:28.680 And you know, we don't have a shortage of fossil fuels. 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:31.840 But as the oil minister of Saudi Arabia said, and 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.600 his warning to the King of Saudi Arabia decades ago, 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:38.560 remember the Stone Age didn't end because of a shortage 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:42.480 of stones. It ended because something better came along. And 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.320 that's the point we're at now in our energy and 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:49.800 transportation uh and and and built environment. So per your 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.000 point earlier, I don't want to move into the Trump 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.240 cul de sac. But we we have to stay there 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:56.920 for a little while, just because obviously he's the president 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.879 of the United States. You met with him when he 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.440 was president elect. During the transition. It was reported that 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:07.120 Jared and Ivanka helped set that up. Do you think 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:10.520 Jared and Ivanka, who seemed to be more sympathetic to 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:15.640 your views, have exercised any influence in the administration. Yes, 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:20.119 obviously they have had a good deal of influence. I 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.840 I think that where his buddies in the in the 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:28.000 carbon pollution community are concerned, I think they take a 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:32.160 priority over everyone else when it comes to this issue. 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.280 I think that's abundantly obvious. I mean, look at the 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:38.520 people he's appointed. I you know, I think there must 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.560 be a grifter's tender out there where these people find 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:46.360 one another. Uh, I mean you you look, I mean, 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:50.359 just look at this acting Attorney general. For God's sake, 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.440 I mean, you could not. I mean the classic cliche 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:56.240 is if you wrote this in a novel, your editor 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:59.840 would say, no, it's just not believable. On you, sasquatched, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:04.560 I'm travel I mean, please, as we're airing this out, 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:07.080 you'll be at the annual meeting of the group that 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.120 produced the Paris Climate Agreement, and it's been more than 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:13.640 a year since the president pulled out of that agreement. 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:17.679 Some people minimize this by saying it's a non binding deal. 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:21.919 What if the real consequence has been of America's withdrawal 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:26.600 from the accord. Well, first of all, under US law 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:32.879 and international law, the first day on which the US 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:36.720 can actually withdraw from the agreement happens to be the 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:44.160 day after the next presidential election, in the middle of November. Uh, 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:48.520 And so he can make a speech and declare his intention. 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:52.440 But the US is still legally bound. And while part 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:55.800 of it is voluntary, there are also binding provisions in 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:59.240 the agreement, and a new president, by the way, could 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:02.320 simply give third day's notice and we're back in the agreement. 0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:07.080 But perhaps more importantly, the US, in spite of Donald Trump, 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:11.840 is on track to exceed the commitments so that we're 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:15.200 made by our country in the Paris Agreement. That's partly 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:18.920 because big states like California and New York and fifteen 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:23.159 others and hundreds of cities and uh, many of the 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:27.560 large businesses, particularly consumer facing businesses, they're still in the 0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:30.399 Paris Agreement, and they've stepped up their efforts to exceed 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:35.159 their commitments. Uh. California just passed a binding law that 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:40.600 they're gonna go a hundred percent carbon free. Uh. Colorado 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:45.680 is now going to join them by so many cities 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:49.560 are going a renewable I was just in Atlanta and 0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:52.200 they've made that commitment of Atlantic can do it, any 0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:55.080 city can do it, and that gives us real hope. Yeah, 0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:58.119 it does. So now I don't I don't want to 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:02.119 to risk a sounding up Polly Anish, because the truth 0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:05.920 is the problem is getting worse faster than we are 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:10.800 responding to it. But the new Congress that comes in 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:15.760 uh to office in in January is gonna make a 0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:20.080 huge difference. Uh. The new Democrats picked up seven governors 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:26.000 offices and many hundreds of state legislative seats. Uh. We're 0:24:26.040 --> 0:24:30.640 seeing commitments on climate action from many of these new officeholders. 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:36.800 So there's there's ample room for legitimate optimism. But we 0:24:36.920 --> 0:24:40.760 have to retain our sense of urgency because the danger 0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:44.080 is very high, it's very real, it's growing, and in 0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:47.520 order to solve this crisis in time, we have to 0:24:47.720 --> 0:24:51.359 step up the changes in laws and policies. You know, 0:24:51.440 --> 0:24:54.200 one person who's not quite as optimistic as you are 0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:57.720 is Bill mckibbon, who recently wrote a long piece for 0:24:57.800 --> 0:25:01.480 The New Yorker that's very powerful in a affecting about 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:05.320 climate change, and he basically argues that even if Paris 0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:10.280 were followed, it's wildly inadequate to the challenge, and that 0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:17.800 a future of negative and even catastrophic consequences is virtually inevitable. 0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:23.280 So has your optimism been tempered at all by the 0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:26.879 events we've seen over the last several years. Well, you know, 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:29.639 Bill does a great job. I'm a big fan of 0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:31.960 his work. But but if you look at that piece 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:34.160 in the New Yorker, you'll see that he carved out 0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:39.480 a section for hope himself and articulated it. And where 0:25:39.520 --> 0:25:44.439 the inadequacy of the Paris Agreement is concerned, I have 0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:49.200 said that many times, but again here is a really 0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:54.960 important provision in the Paris Agreement that ought to change 0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:59.160 the way pessimists think about it. One of the binding 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:05.080 provisions is that every five years, all of the nations 0:26:05.119 --> 0:26:10.040 that have signed it have an obligation to review their 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:14.959 progress and upgrade their ambitions. And in light of the 0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:20.520 continuing cost reductions in carbon free energy and efficiency improvements 0:26:20.880 --> 0:26:24.920 and electric transportation and so forth. UH. The first five 0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:29.359 year review period, which will begin next year and culminate 0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:34.240 in the Conference of the Parties, is likely to see 0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:40.520 significant increases in ambition, with much steeper cuts in greenhouse 0:26:40.560 --> 0:26:44.880 gas pollution pledged by the major emitters. So it's certainly 0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:49.680 true that the Paris Agreement taken as a whole is inadequate, 0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:54.159 of course, but it it was designed to build a 0:26:54.280 --> 0:26:59.320 foundation from which stronger commitments can come UH in the 0:26:59.400 --> 0:27:02.360 year's five allowing the implementation of the agreement, and that 0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:07.879 process has already started. Some nations have already upgraded their commitments, 0:27:07.920 --> 0:27:11.359 and in I think you're likely to see a major 0:27:11.520 --> 0:27:16.240 global increase in the pledged actions by countries around the world. 0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:20.880 Bill McKibbin sort of bemoaned the fact that world leaders 0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:27.280 and presidents in our country didn't intervene enough and said 0:27:27.359 --> 0:27:31.120 that what was that the theoretical threat has become a 0:27:31.160 --> 0:27:35.040 fierce daily reality. I know that in two thousand thirteen 0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:38.760 you said President Obama failed to use the bully pulpit 0:27:39.200 --> 0:27:42.720