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Speaker 1: dot com slash State of US. Hey Brian Hi Katie

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Speaker 1: and High to all of our listeners. Before we begin

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Speaker 1: today's show, we wanted to share a little news. After

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Speaker 1: two and a half years of making this podcast, Brian

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Speaker 1: and I have decided that today will be our last episode,

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Speaker 1: at least for a while. Think of it as we'll

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Speaker 1: see you later and not necessarily goodbye, more of a

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Speaker 1: of an au revoir, if you will. We're taking a

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Speaker 1: break because we have not bigger fish to fry, but

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Speaker 1: other fish to fry. Right Brian, this is true. Um.

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Speaker 1: Katie's production company is taking the world by storm, producing

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Speaker 1: tons of shows both online and in other platforms. I

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Speaker 1: am trying to figure out my plan for but we

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Speaker 1: fear not, dear listeners, fear not, You will hear from

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Speaker 1: us again in the not so distant future in some way,

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Speaker 1: shape or form. And I, for one, have loved doing this.

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Speaker 1: I'm such a huge fan of my colleague Brian Goldsmiths,

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Speaker 1: and I've loved spending this time together with him, and

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Speaker 1: of course, our incredible group here at Stitcher has been

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Speaker 1: a real joy to work with and so we're gonna

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Speaker 1: miss being together every week. But again, we've got a

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Speaker 1: lot of things up our sleeves. So two words, stay

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Speaker 1: tuned and working with Katie has been a joy and

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Speaker 1: a privilege every single day, and I will I will

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Speaker 1: miss that, although I am very confident we will stay

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Speaker 1: in touch quite frequently in the weeks and months ahead. Um.

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Speaker 1: But we're not done quite yet. We still have a

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Speaker 1: very special show today. This is part two of our

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Speaker 1: look back at the year eighteen. This week we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the year in climate change with former Vice President

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Speaker 1: Al Gore, someone I admire enormously, and then we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about the year in news and politics with someone else

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Speaker 1: I really like, Michael Barbarrow, who hosts The Daily from

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Speaker 1: the New York Times. We're big fans of The Daily. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: we're starting with the Vice President. And of course I

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Speaker 1: have known Al Gore for a long time. I think

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Speaker 1: I first covered him back in nineteen ninety two. Jesus,

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Speaker 1: I'm old, aren't I. During his terms as a representative

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Speaker 1: and then Senator from Tennessee, he was already passionate about

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Speaker 1: the environment and very interested in climate change. In fact,

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Speaker 1: he published his first book on the environment back into

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Speaker 1: the same year he and Bill Clinton were elected to

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Speaker 1: the White House. Of course, after eight years as Vice President,

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Speaker 1: Gore ran for president in the infamous or famous two

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Speaker 1: thousand election against George W. Bush. Gore won the popular

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Speaker 1: vote but lost in the electoral college. Some say he

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Speaker 1: lost in the Supreme Court, but we're not going to

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Speaker 1: go there. Um. After that debacle, Gore left politics for

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Speaker 1: good and really focused on his passionate advocacy on the

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Speaker 1: climate issue. And that's why in two thousand and six

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Speaker 1: he released a book and documentary, both titled An Inconvenient Truth,

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Speaker 1: that detailed the impending climate disaster, and in two thousand

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Speaker 1: seven he won the Nobel Peace Prize for his environmental work.

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Speaker 1: In the years since two thousand, al Gore has also

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Speaker 1: been very involved in Silicon Valley tech has been a

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Speaker 1: huge passion of his. He's on the board of Apple,

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Speaker 1: among other things, and he's also founded the Climate Reality Project,

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Speaker 1: which is a big nonprofit devoted to solving what he

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Speaker 1: calls the climate crisis. So he's been very busy, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to be talking him primarily about the environment. First.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to know, given the devastating California wildfires and

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Speaker 1: hurricanes on the Eastern seaboard that we saw this year,

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Speaker 1: what role has climate changed played in two thousand team. Well,

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Speaker 1: the impacts of the climate crisis are growing much more severe,

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Speaker 1: uh and much more frequent. And the latest report by

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Speaker 1: the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change got the attention of

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Speaker 1: millions of people around the world, and it was followed

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Speaker 1: by the devastating hurricanes you mentioned, and these incredible fires

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Speaker 1: this year that have been so devastating in California and

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Speaker 1: in other parts of western North America and around the world.

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Speaker 1: By the way, these are global events. Every night on

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Speaker 1: the TV news is like a nature hike through the

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Speaker 1: Book of Revelation now, and I think that people are

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Speaker 1: are are responding to Mother Nature's advocacy far more than

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Speaker 1: to the advocacy of those of us who are activists

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Speaker 1: on this issue. But we're trying to do our part

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Speaker 1: as well. I think that the entrenched opposition to really

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Speaker 1: solving this crisis h still comes from a dark money

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Speaker 1: provided by large carbon polluters, the American Petroleum Institute, the

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Speaker 1: Koke Brothers, some of the large oil companies, even some

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Speaker 1: who publicly proclaim they've changed their minds and are not

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Speaker 1: fighting action anymore. Whenever there's a serious proposal, they pour

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Speaker 1: in the money. But overall, we are seeing tremendous momentum

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Speaker 1: for the solutions to the climate crisis. Some of it's

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Speaker 1: uh due to technological advances, the stunning reductions in the

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Speaker 1: cost of electricity from the sun and the wind, and

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Speaker 1: stunning reductions in the cost of batteries and electric vehicles

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Speaker 1: and all kinds of efficiency improvements. This is a really

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Speaker 1: changing the global picture. Sometimes I get confused out when

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Speaker 1: I see these fires, and I watched these hurricanes, and

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Speaker 1: I get confused about the direct link between climate change

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Speaker 1: and these catastrophic events. What is the link? I mean,

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Speaker 1: can you say that these wildfires are because of climate change?

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Speaker 1: Here is the connection, Katie. The accumulated amount of man

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Speaker 1: made global warming pollution in the thin shell of atmosphere

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Speaker 1: surrounding our planet. You know, it stays. We're putting a

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Speaker 1: ten million tons every day into the atmosphere as if

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Speaker 1: it's an open sewer, and it stays there for more

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Speaker 1: than a thousand years. The majority of it, and the

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Speaker 1: accumulated amount of man made global warming pollution is now

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Speaker 1: trapping as much extra heat energy every day as would

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Speaker 1: be released by five hundred thousand herosia mclass atomic bombs

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Speaker 1: exploding every twenty four hours. Day in and day out.

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Speaker 1: That extra heat energy evaporates a lot more water vapor

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Speaker 1: off the oceans into the sky, and the so called

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Speaker 1: atmospheric rivers carry it over the land, and so we

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Speaker 1: get these massive downpours uh, four times more common than

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Speaker 1: in even And the same extra heat pulls the moisture

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Speaker 1: out of the soil and the vegetation, so you get

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Speaker 1: both the droughts and drying trees and dead trees that

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Speaker 1: are kindling for these fires. Uh. And you get much

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Speaker 1: more powerful hurricanes and much larger town pours. So Mr

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Speaker 1: Vice President, I have a hard time calling you out.

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Speaker 1: I want to step back and talk about why we're

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Speaker 1: in the position that we're in at this moment. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned the Koch Brothers and some of the kind of

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Speaker 1: carbon polluting interests. Do you basically hold them responsible for

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Speaker 1: the reason it's been so hard to convince the public

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Speaker 1: of the magnitude of this Well, I think they're one

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Speaker 1: of the major reasons. Yes. Um, the large carbon polluters

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Speaker 1: have spent a couple of billion dollars in sewing confusion

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Speaker 1: and false s doubt. They took the playbook of the

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Speaker 1: tobacco companies and use some of the same pr firms

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Speaker 1: and lobbyists. The tobacco companies hired actors and dress them

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Speaker 1: up as doctors and put them in front of cameras

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Speaker 1: and teleprompters to falsely reassure people that there was no

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Speaker 1: medical reason to avoid smoking cigarettes. Well decades later, they've

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Speaker 1: documented how the large carbon polluters spend enormous amounts of

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Speaker 1: money to intentionally confuse Americans and paralyze legislative bodies to

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Speaker 1: prevent to action. They're losing this battle, but they are

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Speaker 1: delaying actions still. The grassroots opinion, more than two thirds

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Speaker 1: of the American people know this UH is real. College

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Speaker 1: young Republicans, by the way, are now UH saying their

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Speaker 1: party has to change as well. A lot of businesses

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Speaker 1: are providing leadership. But you know UH. In Tennessee, the

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Speaker 1: farmers have an old saying that if you see a

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Speaker 1: turtle on top of a fence post, you can be

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Speaker 1: pretty sure it didn't get there by itself. And and

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Speaker 1: if if you see persistent levels of climate denial in

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Speaker 1: the US, unlike in any other country, you can be

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Speaker 1: pretty sure that didn't happen by itself either. It's very

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Speaker 1: hard to find an established, much less respected scientific voice

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Speaker 1: that disagrees with the consensus. The level of certainty exceeds

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Speaker 1: that linking smoking to lung cancer, and it almost approaches

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Speaker 1: the certainty about the existence of gravity. But on the

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Speaker 1: other hand, there was a gallipole earlier this year that

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Speaker 1: showed that only eighteen percent of Republicans believe that global

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Speaker 1: warming will pose a serious threat in their lifetime. And

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Speaker 1: and this country elected a climate change denier as president.

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Speaker 1: So it seems like the experts haven't really made the

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Speaker 1: sale here. Well, let me unpack that that that question.

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Speaker 1: First of all, of course, as you know, there's the

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Speaker 1: fabled tribalism in our politics now, and there is, of course, uh,

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Speaker 1: something else at work. And when there is a general

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Speaker 1: uneasiness about the state of the world and a general

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Speaker 1: feeling of doubt, then that that creates conditions for a

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Speaker 1: demagogue to come in with with falsehoods and uh and

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Speaker 1: false expansive promises. And I think we've certainly seen that,

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Speaker 1: and we've seen a wave of populist authoritarianism in other

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Speaker 1: countries as well. Part of it is the global financial

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Speaker 1: crisis in two thousand and eight, uh uh, and I

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Speaker 1: think that was a real trigger for the real disaffection

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Speaker 1: and hostility against elites and experts of any stripe. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can go deeper into this, but I

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Speaker 1: think that's a fair summation. And add to that, this

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Speaker 1: issue of the climate crisis is inherently complicated, and it's

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Speaker 1: global in scope, and we're not used to thinking in

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Speaker 1: those terms, and it plays out over longer time periods

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Speaker 1: than our political system is used to dealing with, and

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Speaker 1: so and and and the final element would be just

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Speaker 1: sort of garden variety denial. It's hard to think about

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Speaker 1: difficult threats that are scary and solutions that are now

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Speaker 1: readily available but seem to require overcoming the inertia in

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Speaker 1: in our devotion to patterns that have existed for a

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Speaker 1: long time. It also seems to me out that people

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Speaker 1: have a hard time dealing with problems that are not

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Speaker 1: necessarily immediate, and that's one of the problems I think

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Speaker 1: with climate change. Similarly, the causality. Sometimes people don't understand

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Speaker 1: that events like wildfires and flooding and hurricane is seriously

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Speaker 1: exacerbated by climate change. Yeah. Well, I think that part

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Speaker 1: of human nature is that we are more prepared to

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Speaker 1: respond immediately to the kinds of threats that are and

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Speaker 1: sesters survived, you know, a snake, other humans with weapons. Uh.

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Speaker 1: These are the things that we're hardwired to respond to immediately.

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Speaker 1: And when we face a much greater danger that has

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Speaker 1: to be UH perceived with the assistance of our analytical capabilities.

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Speaker 1: Were capable of that too. We've demonstrated that throughout history,

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Speaker 1: but it takes more effort. And in fact, al I

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Speaker 1: was going to mention, I recently read that the ozone

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Speaker 1: layer was closing up because of actions that were taken

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Speaker 1: to do just that. And that is an example that

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Speaker 1: shows when we take action, things can change, right. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And back in the mid eighties, the scientific community UH

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Speaker 1: made this alarming discovery that a certain kinds of chemicals

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Speaker 1: that had only been used for about fifty years were

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Speaker 1: destroying that stratosphere go zone layer that filters out the

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Speaker 1: UV radiation and keeps it so that it only gives

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Speaker 1: a sunburn instead of killing us. That that it was

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Speaker 1: deteriorating rapidly, and within one year, Margaret Thatcher in the

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Speaker 1: United Kingdom, who had a chemistry a degree, enlisted the

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Speaker 1: cooperation of her dear friend of President Ronald Reagan. They

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Speaker 1: took action and now we are on the way to

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Speaker 1: solving that crisis. Now here's the difference, Katie. Those chemicals

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Speaker 1: that were causing that catastrophe were a very tiny part

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Speaker 1: of the global economy. The company's making it fought against it,

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Speaker 1: but they but they were defeated. Now, the problem is

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Speaker 1: c O two and methane and other gases, But the main,

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Speaker 1: the heart of it is CEO two, and that comes

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Speaker 1: from the fuels that still provide of all the inner

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Speaker 1: g in the global economy. And there are alternatives for

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Speaker 1: them as well. But there are vested interests and established

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Speaker 1: patterns of behavior that are more difficult to change and

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Speaker 1: overcome than it was when we successfully solve the stratospheric

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Speaker 1: zone layering problem. Clearly, President Trump is not on the

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Speaker 1: same page as you are. To put it mildly, here's

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Speaker 1: what he said not too long ago on sixty minutes

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Speaker 1: about global warming. Do you still think the climate change

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Speaker 1: is a hoax? Look, I think something's happening, something's changing,

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Speaker 1: and it will change back again. I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: a hoax. I think there's probably a difference, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know that it's man made. I will say this, Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to give trillions and trillions of dollars.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to lose millions and millions of jobs.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be put a disadvantage. I'm not

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Speaker 1: denying climate change, but it could very well go back.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're talking to about all that's the nine

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Speaker 1: of views. They say that we had hurricanes that were

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Speaker 1: far worse than what we just had with Michael who

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Speaker 1: says that, they say people say that India. But what

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Speaker 1: about the scientists who say it's worse than ever. You

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Speaker 1: have to show me the scientists because they have a

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Speaker 1: very big political agenda, lest like I can't bring the

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Speaker 1: managers also have a political agenda. What has your reaction

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Speaker 1: been to the President's position on this? Well? Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you want to go into the Trump cul de sac,

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Speaker 1: we may not escape from it. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: mean whenever, every time a new outrage comes along, I

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Speaker 1: have to download some existing outrage to make room for

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Speaker 1: the new outrage. Uh. And just to take a couple

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Speaker 1: of points from his comment, uh that it will change back. No,

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Speaker 1: it won't change back. Uh No, because we're putting a

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Speaker 1: million extra tons every day, uh and into the sky

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Speaker 1: and adding it to this blanket of heat trapping gases

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Speaker 1: that is causing the problem. Uh, it can go back

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Speaker 1: if we change our behavior. Now. The the idea that

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Speaker 1: the scientists have some political agenda, it's an insult to

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Speaker 1: these uh scientists. They do it on volunteer time. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They won the Nobel Prize. They continue their work. They're

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Speaker 1: they're they're among the most respected women and men uh

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Speaker 1: in their fields in countries all around the world. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, as I said before, they've been proven right.

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Speaker 1: What they predicted decades ago is playing out on our

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Speaker 1: television screens and in the lives of people living in

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Speaker 1: cities that are being hit hard right now. So, UM,

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Speaker 1: this is wilful denial. This is is a global crisis.

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Speaker 1: You know, the President set up this prototypical battle between

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Speaker 1: industry and jobs on the one hand and the environment

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Speaker 1: on the other. Is that really the choice that we're

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Speaker 1: facing here? No, the choice actually switching to renewable energy

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Speaker 1: that saves us money and and by the way, it

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Speaker 1: creates jobs. The fastest growing job in the United States

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Speaker 1: of America today, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics,

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Speaker 1: is solar installer. Those jobs are growing nine times faster

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Speaker 1: than average job growth. The second fastest growing job is

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Speaker 1: wind turbine technician. We're in the early stages of a

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Speaker 1: sustainability revolution all around the world that has the magnitude

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Speaker 1: of the industrial revolution, but the speed of the digital revolution.

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Speaker 1: Electricity from solar and wind is now cheaper in the

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Speaker 1: majority of locations around the world than electricity from burning

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Speaker 1: fossil fuels. End. The fossil fuel electricity keeps getting more

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Speaker 1: expensive and also produces local air pollution, which kills almost

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Speaker 1: ten million people a year. Air pollutions the new smoking,

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Speaker 1: whereas the renewable electricity is pollution free, creates jobs, makes

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Speaker 1: our economy more efficient, and it keeps coming down in

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Speaker 1: price year after year after year. This is the future. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we don't have a shortage of fossil fuels.

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Speaker 1: But as the oil minister of Saudi Arabia said, and

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Speaker 1: his warning to the King of Saudi Arabia decades ago,

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Speaker 1: remember the Stone Age didn't end because of a shortage

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Speaker 1: of stones. It ended because something better came along. And

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Speaker 1: that's the point we're at now in our energy and

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Speaker 1: transportation uh and and and built environment. So per your

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Speaker 1: point earlier, I don't want to move into the Trump

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Speaker 1: cul de sac. But we we have to stay there

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Speaker 1: for a little while, just because obviously he's the president

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Speaker 1: of the United States. You met with him when he

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Speaker 1: was president elect. During the transition. It was reported that

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Speaker 1: Jared and Ivanka helped set that up. Do you think

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Speaker 1: Jared and Ivanka, who seemed to be more sympathetic to

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Speaker 1: your views, have exercised any influence in the administration. Yes,

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Speaker 1: obviously they have had a good deal of influence. I

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Speaker 1: I think that where his buddies in the in the

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Speaker 1: carbon pollution community are concerned, I think they take a

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Speaker 1: priority over everyone else when it comes to this issue.

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Speaker 1: I think that's abundantly obvious. I mean, look at the

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Speaker 1: people he's appointed. I you know, I think there must

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Speaker 1: be a grifter's tender out there where these people find

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Speaker 1: one another. Uh, I mean you you look, I mean,

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Speaker 1: just look at this acting Attorney general. For God's sake,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you could not. I mean the classic cliche

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Speaker 1: is if you wrote this in a novel, your editor

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Speaker 1: would say, no, it's just not believable. On you, sasquatched,

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Speaker 1: I'm travel I mean, please, as we're airing this out,

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Speaker 1: you'll be at the annual meeting of the group that

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Speaker 1: produced the Paris Climate Agreement, and it's been more than

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Speaker 1: a year since the president pulled out of that agreement.

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Speaker 1: Some people minimize this by saying it's a non binding deal.

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Speaker 1: What if the real consequence has been of America's withdrawal

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Speaker 1: from the accord. Well, first of all, under US law

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Speaker 1: and international law, the first day on which the US

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Speaker 1: can actually withdraw from the agreement happens to be the

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Speaker 1: day after the next presidential election, in the middle of November. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And so he can make a speech and declare his intention.

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Speaker 1: But the US is still legally bound. And while part

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Speaker 1: of it is voluntary, there are also binding provisions in

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Speaker 1: the agreement, and a new president, by the way, could

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Speaker 1: simply give third day's notice and we're back in the agreement.

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Speaker 1: But perhaps more importantly, the US, in spite of Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: is on track to exceed the commitments so that we're

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Speaker 1: made by our country in the Paris Agreement. That's partly

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Speaker 1: because big states like California and New York and fifteen

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Speaker 1: others and hundreds of cities and uh, many of the

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Speaker 1: large businesses, particularly consumer facing businesses, they're still in the

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Speaker 1: Paris Agreement, and they've stepped up their efforts to exceed

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Speaker 1: their commitments. Uh. California just passed a binding law that

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Speaker 1: they're gonna go a hundred percent carbon free. Uh. Colorado

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Speaker 1: is now going to join them by so many cities

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Speaker 1: are going a renewable I was just in Atlanta and

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Speaker 1: they've made that commitment of Atlantic can do it, any

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Speaker 1: city can do it, and that gives us real hope. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it does. So now I don't I don't want to

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Speaker 1: to risk a sounding up Polly Anish, because the truth

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Speaker 1: is the problem is getting worse faster than we are

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Speaker 1: responding to it. But the new Congress that comes in

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Speaker 1: uh to office in in January is gonna make a

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Speaker 1: huge difference. Uh. The new Democrats picked up seven governors

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Speaker 1: offices and many hundreds of state legislative seats. Uh. We're

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Speaker 1: seeing commitments on climate action from many of these new officeholders.

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Speaker 1: So there's there's ample room for legitimate optimism. But we

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Speaker 1: have to retain our sense of urgency because the danger

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Speaker 1: is very high, it's very real, it's growing, and in

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Speaker 1: order to solve this crisis in time, we have to

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Speaker 1: step up the changes in laws and policies. You know,

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Speaker 1: one person who's not quite as optimistic as you are

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Speaker 1: is Bill mckibbon, who recently wrote a long piece for

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Speaker 1: The New Yorker that's very powerful in a affecting about

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Speaker 1: climate change, and he basically argues that even if Paris

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Speaker 1: were followed, it's wildly inadequate to the challenge, and that

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Speaker 1: a future of negative and even catastrophic consequences is virtually inevitable.

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Speaker 1: So has your optimism been tempered at all by the

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Speaker 1: events we've seen over the last several years. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: Bill does a great job. I'm a big fan of

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Speaker 1: his work. But but if you look at that piece

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Speaker 1: in the New Yorker, you'll see that he carved out

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Speaker 1: a section for hope himself and articulated it. And where

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Speaker 1: the inadequacy of the Paris Agreement is concerned, I have

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Speaker 1: said that many times, but again here is a really

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Speaker 1: important provision in the Paris Agreement that ought to change

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Speaker 1: the way pessimists think about it. One of the binding

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Speaker 1: provisions is that every five years, all of the nations

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Speaker 1: that have signed it have an obligation to review their

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Speaker 1: progress and upgrade their ambitions. And in light of the

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Speaker 1: continuing cost reductions in carbon free energy and efficiency improvements

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Speaker 1: and electric transportation and so forth. UH. The first five

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Speaker 1: year review period, which will begin next year and culminate

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Speaker 1: in the Conference of the Parties, is likely to see

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Speaker 1: significant increases in ambition, with much steeper cuts in greenhouse

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Speaker 1: gas pollution pledged by the major emitters. So it's certainly

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Speaker 1: true that the Paris Agreement taken as a whole is inadequate,

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Speaker 1: of course, but it it was designed to build a

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Speaker 1: foundation from which stronger commitments can come UH in the

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Speaker 1: year's five allowing the implementation of the agreement, and that

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Speaker 1: process has already started. Some nations have already upgraded their commitments,

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Speaker 1: and in I think you're likely to see a major

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Speaker 1: global increase in the pledged actions by countries around the world.

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Speaker 1: Bill McKibbin sort of bemoaned the fact that world leaders

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Speaker 1: and presidents in our country didn't intervene enough and said

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Speaker 1: that what was that the theoretical threat has become a

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Speaker 1: fierce daily reality. I know that in two thousand thirteen

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Speaker 1: you said President Obama failed to use the bully pulpit

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Speaker 1: to make the case for bold action on climate change.

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Speaker 1: That was a direct quote. Do you think he could

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Speaker 1: have and should have done more well. I think you

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Speaker 1: have to differentiate to Katie between President Obama's record in

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Speaker 1: his first four years and in his second four years.

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Speaker 1: He deserves credit, as I've written, in his first four

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Speaker 1: years for dramatically increasing the mileage standard requirements for cars

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Speaker 1: and trucks, and for the green stimulus elements of his

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Speaker 1: economic stimulus plan, which which made a difference. The White

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Speaker 1: House might well have done more to secure passage of

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Speaker 1: major legislation that passed the House in the in the

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Speaker 1: early summer of two thousand nine, which failed in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: But in his second term, uh, he built on his

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Speaker 1: beginnings in the first term and really did use the

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Speaker 1: bully pulpit quite significantly. And and he played a major

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Speaker 1: role in securing the success of the Paris Agreement. And

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Speaker 1: one year before the Paris Agreement, he achieved an historic

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Speaker 1: binational commitment between the US and China which laid the

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Speaker 1: foundation for the success in Paris. So I think you

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Speaker 1: look at the balance of his eight years in the

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Speaker 1: White House, I think that he made major, major contributions.

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Speaker 1: A number of top retired Republicans have signed onto a

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Speaker 1: carbon tax as the right way to deal with climate change.

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Speaker 1: Can you quickly explain what that means and tell us

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Speaker 1: what you think of that approach. Well, I've proposed a

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Speaker 1: a carbon tax UH for thirty years now, so yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm very much in favor of it for the simple

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Speaker 1: reason that our economy now counts pollution UH to have

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Speaker 1: a value of zero. We we ignore it. And you

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Speaker 1: know the term of art you've heard as externalities, which

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Speaker 1: basically means, uh, just forget about it and pretend it

432
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: doesn't exist. But but that's obviously insane, particularly when when

433
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: we're putting a hundred ten million tons of it every

434
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: day into the sky. Uh. And and one of the

435
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: ways to remedy uh, the economy's blindness to this pollution

436
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: is to put a price on it. Now, having said that, Katie, UH,

437
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: the political difficulty in enacting any kind of taxation increase

438
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: is well known and impressive, and partly as a result,

439
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: many people took a different approach with the so called

440
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: cap and trade mechanism UH that's now being used in

441
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: the European Union, It's being used by China. They implemented

442
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: it this year. It is an indirect price on carbon

443
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: and can achieve the same goals if it's skillfully UH

444
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: and strongly enforced, and I think the world is probably

445
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: moving in that direction. I actually support both a carbon

446
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: tax and a carbon trading or cap and trade regime,

447
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: but we also need um regulatory chain, just requirements, such

448
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: as telling utilities they have to have growing percentages of

449
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: their electricity from renewable sources by a date certain UH.

450
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: Many countries around the world have now enacted laws requiring

451
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: the the illegal cessation of any sales of internal combustion engines,

452
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: mandating a shift to electric vehicles. Sweden, India has announced

453
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: that by no new internal combustion cars and trucks can

454
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: be sold. And that's the an example of a of

455
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: a law and a regulation approach that can accomplish more

456
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: very quickly. But yes, I support a carbon tax and

457
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: a cap and trade program. Mr Vice President Alexandra Ocasio Cortes,

458
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: the new Democratic Socialist congresswoman from New York, led a

459
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: protest in Nancy Pelosi's office to create a Select Committee

460
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: on Climate change, which is a position that Pelosi has

461
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: said that she shares. What was your reaction to the

462
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: decision to protest her, of all people, and do you

463
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: think she ought to be the next Speaker of the House.

464
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: First of all, I really welcome the energy and activism

465
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: of this new incoming group of Democrats in the Congress.

466
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I like that Select Committee. I don't think

467
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: the opposition to it, by the way, was anything more

468
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: than the committee chairs, with the substance of jurisdiction, want

469
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: to sink their teeth into it. But I'll let them

470
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: sort that out. As far as the race for Speaker

471
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: of the House is concerned, I'm a longtime friend and

472
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: admirer of Nancy Pelosi, and in my experience, she's been

473
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: one of the great speakers of the last century. She

474
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: knows how to knit her caucus together and count votes. Well.

475
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: I don't know how that race is going to turn out,

476
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: but if I had a vote, I would vote for her.

477
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: I want to leave people some hope as we enter

478
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen, and I think some people feel powerless.

479
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: They see these problems, they see the government not acting enough,

480
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: and they wonder what can we do. So, what one

481
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: piece of advice would you give the average American if

482
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: he or she wants to uh contribute to finding a

483
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: solution for global warming? Well as important as it is

484
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: to to change light bulbs and take those other actions

485
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: that each individual can take. It's more important to change

486
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: the laws and the policies. So my number one recommendation

487
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: is to not only register to vote and vote, but

488
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 1: reclaim your voice as a citizen of this country and

489
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: become politically active. There is hope in action, and I

490
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: get a tremendous amount of hope from the millions of

491
00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: people who are now really engaged in grassroots active them.

492
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: I train climate activists all over this country and all

493
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: over the world, and what I'm seeing is an up

494
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: surge of enthusiasm and energy and demands for progress and

495
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: change that is ultimately not going to be denied. So

496
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: be be a part of those who are taking action

497
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: as citizens of this country. Well that's good advice, and Brian,

498
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: you and I will meet you at the next protest. Actually,

499
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: I would like to get out there and be more

500
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: vocal about some of these issues. You know, as journalists,

501
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: I think we always shy away a bit, But you know,

502
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: in my old agel, I'm like, to hell with it.

503
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 1: I'm going to speak my mind a little bit more.

504
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: In the middle of March, we're having a three day

505
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: mass training in Atlanta, UM and there there. These trainings

506
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: really motivate people. You'll learn everything you need to know

507
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: about the causes of the climate crisis and the solutions

508
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: for the climate crisis, and communications and advocate advocacy skills,

509
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 1: and one or both of you ought to consider coming

510
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,479
Speaker 1: down and covering that going through it. That would be fun.

511
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: And when people say what are you doing these days?

512
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: I can say I'm a climate change activists. What are

513
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 1: you doing? There? You go, yeah, that's a good question. Absolutely. Anyway,

514
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: Al Gore, you're you're such uh, you're such a mench

515
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: Al let me do us from Nashville. Thank you, Brian,

516
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: and thank you Katie, and thank you for the overly

517
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: generous and kind words. Katie and I hope to see

518
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: you both in person again soon. I hope so too.

519
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: Happy New Year coming up, We're gonna look back this

520
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: year in news and politics with the one and only

521
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: Michael Barbarrow of the New York Times Daily podcast that's

522
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: right after this. Support for today's show comes from Thrive

523
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524
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531
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Speaker 1: fashion accessory but should not cost as much as a

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Speaker 1: plane ticket or a new iPhone. With Warby Parker, glasses

544
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Speaker 1: their home. Try on program allows you to order five

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Speaker 1: pairs of glasses ship directly to your door, where you

548
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Speaker 1: can try them on in the comfort of your own home,

549
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Speaker 1: get feedback from friends, family, your cat, the mailman, whoever.

550
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Speaker 1: You can try the frames for five days before sending

551
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Speaker 1: them back using a free prepaid return shipping label with

552
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Speaker 1: no obligation to purchase. It's free. It's so easy. Even

553
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Speaker 1: I can do it, and I had a wonderful experience

554
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555
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Speaker 1: had to warby Parker dot com slash Katie to order

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557
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Speaker 1: like to try on, mail the frames back, choose your

558
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Speaker 1: favorite pair to have your prescription added to, and order.

559
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Speaker 1: It's really simple. Visit warby Parker dot com slash Katie

560
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Speaker 1: if you have an iPhone, tin make sure to download

562
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Speaker 1: warby Parker's app, where you can use their brand new

563
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Speaker 1: feature Find your Fit. Find Your Fit recommends approximately twelve

564
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Speaker 1: Warby Parker frames that likely fit your face. The process

565
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Speaker 1: is seamless, very cool, and only takes a few seconds. Now,

566
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: let's get back to the show. Our next guest is

567
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: Michael Barbaro, who many of you know as the host

568
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: of The Daily podcast from the New York Times and

569
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: not to be missed podcast for Brian and me. That's true.

570
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: Michael and his team take the biggest news stories and

571
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: turn them into a short narrative podcast that comes out

572
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: every weekday. And because he's always covering the biggest headlines,

573
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: we thought he'd be the perfect person to walk us

574
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 1: through what happened this year in the wacky world of

575
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: news and politics. I started by asking Michael a very

576
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: important question, if he's having fun doing the Daily most

577
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: of the time. I'm having a really good time most

578
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 1: of the time, having a wonderful time. You know, making

579
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: a daily show from scratch, it's all consuming. It's a vortex,

580
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: and no one tells you that when you start to

581
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 1: make a show. And even it's almost been two years

582
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: since we started the Daily, and it turns out that

583
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: it's a really powerful way of transforming the written word

584
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: into in some ways, a more resonant, emotional kind of storytelling.

585
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: And now, and the most flattering thing that's happened since

586
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: The Daily started, there are a lot of copycats. Is

587
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: there are a lot more. There are a lot more

588
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: kinds of daily news shows. And that's really flattering. And

589
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: I I wish them well and I mean that, but

590
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 1: I wish them sleep because I just don't think they

591
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: know how hard it will be. Okay, Michael, we we've

592
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: got to get to the topic or the topics at

593
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: hand here, which is the year and news and politics.

594
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: So let's start with the biggest names. One name we

595
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily expect to be big this year, President George H. W. Bush.

596
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: He recently died, of course, age ninety four. Here's a

597
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: clip of his son, President George W. Bush, eulogizing his father.

598
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: And we're gonna miss you. Your decency, sincerity, and kind

599
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 1: soul will stay with us forever. So through our tears,

600
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: let us know the blessings of knowing and loving you,

601
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: a great and nobleman. Were you surprised at how George

602
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: Herbert Walker Bush was practically deified in the media, And

603
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: do you think it's because by comparison, he's such a

604
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: different public figure than our current president. Yes and no.

605
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: And I want to dispute the characterization a little bit

606
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: of deification because by the second day of National Mourning

607
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 1: around George Herbert Walker Bush. There there were a slew

608
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: of sobering articles that we're pointing out all the ways

609
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: in which he was this or not quite that. You know,

610
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: what happened with AIDS under his watch, what was his

611
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: relationship with race, What does it mean to be a

612
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: wasp and to be really entitled? And are we in

613
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,720
Speaker 1: a better place now as a meritocracy than we were

614
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 1: during the era when the Bushes came up and were

615
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 1: guaranteed pretty much a spotty yale and seemingly a spot

616
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: of a governorship or a job in the house. I

617
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: was so struck by the number of people who came

618
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: out to greet his train, the train that brought him

619
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: to College Station, Texas for his burial, and that instinct

620
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: to just be patriotic in that moment, I think overrides partisanship,

621
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 1: and that is rare. And I think so many elements

622
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: of his death, the funeral, the President's all sitting in

623
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: a row. It was like nostalgic, even in the moment,

624
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: because our day to day with President Trump is so

625
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 1: partisan and combative. Just the simple spectacle of unification around

626
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: mourning feels of a different era, and I think that's

627
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: why everybody felt something there. What do you think? I

628
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: think his presidency also looks a lot different now than

629
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: it did when he was defeated. Somehow at the time,

630
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: with the sour economy, we probably didn't appreciate enough the

631
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: masterful role he played in managing the end of the

632
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 1: Cold War and the role he played in building a

633
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: lot of bipartisan accomplishments at home. Plus his signal sort

634
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: of failure as president, breaking his no new taxes pledge

635
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: in retrospect looks like an accomplishment because it took great

636
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: political courage to do what was right, even though he

637
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: knew it would hurt him in the next election. You

638
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 1: know one other figure like that who died this year,

639
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: of course, was Senator John McCain. Do you think these

640
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: two deaths signaled the death of the Republican established shman

641
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 1: itself a certain kind of Republican establishment for sure. Yeah.

642
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: And both of them existed in eras when what would

643
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 1: become the future Republican Party was bubbling up beneath their feet.

644
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: I mean, John McCain got a lot of grief for

645
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: his enthusiasm for immigration reform. Uh. George Herbert walker Bush

646
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: was experiencing the beginning of the kind of anti tax revolt,

647
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: the gingrich revolution that would come in ninety four, and

648
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 1: he was kind of tamping it down, and he left

649
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: office as it rose. It's so interesting you point out

650
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: the tax pledge, because after George Walker Bush left office,

651
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: almost every Republican would be asked to literally sign a

652
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: pledge that Grovern Orcas would present to them. And it

653
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: felt like a pledge. You know, if you didn't sign it,

654
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 1: you were a real Republican that you would never agree

655
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: to raise taxes. And so yeah, this was an error

656
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: where it was conceivable that you could stand for compromise

657
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: and you would be respected within your party. In addition

658
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: to changing our view of the Republican establishment, I do

659
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: think it hearkened to a bygone era when presidents did

660
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: not tweet things about former secretaries of state and say

661
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: they're dumb as a rock. I mean, I think the

662
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: contrast was so intense when you looked at this patrician

663
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: family that had certain more Ray's a lot of humility,

664
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: hated to talk about himself. So I think that's one

665
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: of the reasons that people were just craving that kind

666
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: of civility, and that was what I believe was being

667
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: celebrated as much as George Bush's presidency itself. Completely agree,

668
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: and yet it was also an occasion to be sober

669
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: and honest about the ways in which that was a

670
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: crafted image, right, Because the reason why we were all

671
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: talking about the Willie Horton ad that George Herb Walker

672
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: Bush put out in his winning campaign against Michael Cocacus

673
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: was because it was it was a really ugly ad

674
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: and it felt racist and definitely racially tinged, and you know,

675
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: it was a it was a very very messy moment

676
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: in our kind of national political dialogue to have that

677
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 1: ad running, and I think it's important that people did

678
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: talk about it because I think, beneath the veneer of

679
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: civility and grace and sort of good manners, a lot

680
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 1: of people said that when push came to shove, George

681
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: Herbert Walker Bush did what he had to do politically,

682
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: and some of it was not very pretty. Let's talk

683
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: about what we learned this year about the state of

684
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: Muller's investigation, you know, especially with all of the people

685
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: it's ensnared, like Michael Cohen and Paul Maniford and Michael Flynn,

686
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: Am I the only one who has a really hard

687
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: time keeping up with all of this? Yes? No, no,

688
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: you're not that A yes that meant no that everybody

689
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: has a hard time keeping up that we constantly at

690
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: the daily We constantly debate like do we need to

691
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: do another episode? And the the answer is often yes,

692
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: because no one can keep track of everything. It is

693
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: so hard, So help us. As the year draws to enclose,

694
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: where we are in terms of the investigation, there's a

695
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: lot about Michael Cohen. Maybe start with him. Sure, So,

696
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: as we speak, Michael Cohen is about to be sentenced

697
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: for his role in these payoffs, to these attempts to

698
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: silence the women who claim they had sexual encounters with

699
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 1: candidate Donald Trump. And the bigger narrative of the moment

700
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: is that the Special Counsel went out seeking information about

701
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: essentially two things, Russian interference in the election and communication

702
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: between the those around the Trump campaign and Russia. I

703
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: think it's been during the process of this investigation that

704
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: all these many investigations have spun off, and those are

705
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: the ones that are hard to keep track of. In

706
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 1: the mix of this as well, is whether the president

707
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: sought to obstruct justice after these investigations all began. And

708
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: the reason why people like Michael Cohen get caught up

709
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: in this is because of the kind of ancillary investigations

710
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: that have spun off of this. I mean, one of

711
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,879
Speaker 1: the most astonishing things about the Muller investigation is how

712
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: often he seems to prove that people around the president

713
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: lie and lie with with real kind of ease, as

714
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: if it's you know, kind of like essential to their nature.

715
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: Whether it's Paul Manaford or Michael Flynn, the president's former

716
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: national security advisor and the president's campaign chairman and then

717
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 1: his personal lawyer. I mean, these were people that the

718
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 1: president has entrusted huge responsibilities to and it turns out

719
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: that that they lie. But Michael Flynn, it seems to me,

720
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: you guys, has been very cooperative. That's the message coming

721
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: from Mueller's office. What in store for him? And why

722
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 1: is he behaved differently than Cohen and Manafort? I would say,

723
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: assuming he's being honest, he's looking out for his own

724
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 1: self interest. You know, Mueller is very effective, along with

725
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: some people around him who have had great experience doing this,

726
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: like Andrew Weissman At basically saying to people, unless you

727
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 1: are on cooperative, we're going to prosecute you and put

728
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: you away for many, many years. And the people who

729
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: are apparently cooperating for real, like Flynn, are going to

730
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: get treated a hell of a lot better than the

731
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: people who tried to shade the truth a little bit

732
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: and kind of play both sides, like Paul Manifort, who

733
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: is now staring in the face of being in jail

734
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: for the rest of his life. And why does the

735
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: President tweet things like thank you you know, no collusion,

736
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: I you know, basically claiming he's been exonerating. I mean,

737
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,919
Speaker 1: he may genuinely feel relieved each time there's a chord

738
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: filing that he's not directly implicated in a in a

739
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: way that exposes him to any kind of criminal charges.

740
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: So there's that. There's also just the kind of incessant,

741
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: impulsive need to kind of put his stamp on something.

742
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: I think he also recognizes that if he says something

743
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: about the country will believe it, and so he can

744
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: create this alternative universe, this alternative reality where up is down. Yeah,

745
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: it's it's partially he wants to shape the narrative, as

746
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: he's very effective in doing, but things are getting We're

747
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 1: entering a very interesting and perilous phase of this, all

748
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: for the president. Because Michael Cohen is pleading guilty to

749
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: conduct that the president was personally involved in. Suddenly the

750
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: stakes are getting higher, and it's starting to look like

751
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: very much in Watergate, when Richard Nixon was an unindicted

752
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: co conspirator, and you're here that I'm a crook, when

753
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: when he wasn't charged, but every everyone understood that he

754
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,479
Speaker 1: had been involved in criminal conduct or potentially criminal conic

755
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: We're now entering a phase. We're according to all of

756
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: my colleagues and to the documents that were filed just

757
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: a couple of days ago, the president was involved in

758
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: something that those who were also involved in are pleading

759
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: guilty to a crime for that suggests that a crime

760
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: has been committed and he was involved. You can play

761
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: all sorts of word games, but at the end of

762
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: the day, if he were not president, would he be

763
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: charged with that same crime? And I think some people

764
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: believe yes. So then it becomes an interesting question of well,

765
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 1: what do we do with that? Can I ask you

766
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: about Russian collusion though, because we're dealing with obviously stormy

767
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: Daniels and the other woman and paying them money when

768
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 1: he was a candidate. But where are we on in

769
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: the collusion uh phase of the investigation. I think there's

770
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: an extraordinary amount of evidence that there was, to quote

771
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: the most recent filing, a political synergy between the Russians

772
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: and the Trump campaign. And what we've learned over the

773
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: last several days and in the most recent filings is

774
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: a potential motive, which is that Donald Trump wanted to

775
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: build a Trump Tower in Moscow. He apparently was prepared

776
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: to offer the penthouse to Vladimir Putin to get it done.

777
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: And this is a project that would have made him tends,

778
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: if not hundreds of millions of dollars. And so when

779
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: you look at all the actions that his campaign took

780
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: to cozy up to Russia, it turns out Donald Trump

781
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: had an ongoing financial motive to try to do that.

782
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 1: The complicated question of collusion and there really isn't there's

783
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:44,359
Speaker 1: a lot of debate about what that word means. Is

784
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: it requires motivation on both sides, I believe, And what

785
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 1: was the motivation of those around the president? Did they

786
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 1: intend to solicit the political cooperation of Russia with the

787
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: sole intent of affecting the out of the election, or

788
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 1: or at various moments where they just kind of following

789
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: their instinct to get dirt on an opponent or to

790
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: do a business. What is it all add up to?

791
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: And that's why Robert Mueller very much wanted to sit

792
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: down with President Trump, because there's only one way to

793
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: get to someone's motives at any moment, and that's to

794
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 1: ask them, what were your motives? And maybe in this

795
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: case that it's the cover up, like in Watergate, more

796
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: than the crime itself that nails the president in that

797
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: lying about this, obstructing justice about this may ultimately be

798
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: seen as the greater infractions here. Needless to say, you'll

799
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: be doing a lot of dailies in two thousand nineteens

800
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 1: about the Mueller investment. By the way, no one thoughtless

801
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 1: investigation would last through the end of the year. Let's

802
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 1: move on to some of the other big names and

803
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:50,399
Speaker 1: big stories that really dominated the daily and headlines writ

804
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: large over the last year. Mohammed been Salmon and Saudi

805
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: Arabia MBS. I remember seeing sort of a big pr campaign.

806
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 1: He was kind of doing a dog and phony show.

807
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: I'm a new kind of ruler look at this guy,

808
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 1: and suddenly he is, you know, public enemy number one

809
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: in many ways. Why did it take so long for

810
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 1: the United States and for the citizens of this country

811
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: to really take a close look at Saudi Arabia and

812
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: our relationship with it. It's a great question. This all

813
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:28,439
Speaker 1: goes back to Jared Kushner, as a young, pretty inexperienced

814
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: adviser to the president, striking up a relationship with Mohammed

815
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: been Salmon, because, as we're now learning through leaked documents

816
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: and investigations, the Saudi Arabian leaders, especially MBS, they understood

817
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: that he was vulnerable, that they could cozy up with him.

818
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 1: We didn't have a whole lot of baggage or deep

819
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 1: history in the region, and they formed an alliance that

820
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:54,760
Speaker 1: ended up influencing the course of events in Saudi Arabia

821
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: because once Jared Kushner decided to elevate Mohammed been Salmon,

822
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: in particular with a one on one meal with President Trump,

823
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 1: suddenly people back in Saudi Arabia undershoid, Oh this guy,

824
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: he demand he is. He's in a really good position here,

825
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: and so that affected his trajectory. Back at home. We

826
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: understand he is elevated to Crown Prince, which is effectively

827
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: the day to day leader of Saudi Arabia, and he

828
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 1: has the approval the perimeter of the White House, so

829
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 1: he's sitting kind of pretty. And then a series of

830
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 1: events happen that make us question why why did we

831
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 1: do that? And that, of course was the assassination of

832
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 1: Jamaka Shoji, this journalist who resided in the US, and

833
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: it's had the secondary effective focusing our attention on the

834
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 1: US role in the war in Yellen, which is a

835
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: Saudi led campaign that President Obama signed off on. President

836
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 1: Trump continued, it's one of those things. Yes, we weren't

837
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 1: paying attention to any of this until this assassination, and

838
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: then we will look back and tried to understand what

839
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 1: Jared Kushner had done and where he had taken us,

840
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: and why we have had such a cozy relationship with

841
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia for many, many years. It's a remarkable kind

842
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 1: of moment in live history when an event like this,

843
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 1: this assassination, forces everyone to reevaluate everything, including whether we

844
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: should be involved in the war in Yemen, whether we

845
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: should be selling arms to Saudi Arabia for that war,

846
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 1: the role it has Visa vi Iran, right. I mean,

847
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: it seems like it's it opened up a huge geopolitical

848
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 1: kind of worms, right. And Yemen is the worst humanitarian

849
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: catastrophe in the world right now. There are literally thousands

850
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 1: and thousands of children who are dying needlessly of starvation.

851
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 1: And you, yourself, Michael, admitted that you hadn't really been

852
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: paying attention to it. I don't. I think most people had. No,

853
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,800
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I think all of us understood

854
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 1: that there was a war in Yemen. We understood it

855
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: was about Iran and Saudi Arabia, and there it was bad.

856
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:59,959
Speaker 1: And now I think the world's attention is is fick

857
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: xed on it anyway, that this that that that again

858
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 1: is just like a very unexpected outcome of one man's assassination.

859
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: One of the reasons I think Yemen has gotten so

860
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: little attention is because news organizations are too afraid to

861
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,319
Speaker 1: turn attention away from Donald Trump. I'm not quite sure

862
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 1: I agree with that. It's very hard to get journalists

863
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: in Yemen. It's a very hard place to report from.

864
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,720
Speaker 1: And yes, there's a domestic story that is pretty consuming.

865
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,760
Speaker 1: And I believe to the degree that our news diets

866
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: are shaped by cable news and front pages. Those are

867
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,439
Speaker 1: dominated by the president, and it was after the death

868
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: of Jamal ka Shoji, the assassination of him by the

869
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 1: Saudi government, that many front pages, including The York Times,

870
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 1: started to focus more on Yemen. We have a clip

871
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: of President Trump talking about the Kasho murder. Abia has

872
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 1: been a great ally, but what happened is unacceptable. He

873
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,399
Speaker 1: later would deny what the entire intelligence community said, which

874
00:56:56,440 --> 00:57:00,919
Speaker 1: is that MBS either directed or at least was very

875
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,280
Speaker 1: aware of the assassination of Kashogi, and he is signaled

876
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: to the rest of the world that, you know, business

877
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 1: as usual goes on, which is a little bit interesting

878
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 1: because unlike in previous decades, the US is no longer

879
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: dependent on oil from Saudi Arabia, so it costs a

880
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: lot less for US to be more independent and stand

881
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: up to Saudi Arabia than it than it used to.

882
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: Some of my colleagues have this phrase for what President

883
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: Trump does and some of these moments. They call it

884
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: reading the stage directions out loud. You know, traditionally politicians

885
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: would never say the thing that really undergirds a decision.

886
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: President Trump will often just say it out loud. And

887
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: the thing he has said repeatedly about the U S

888
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: relationship with Saudi Arabia is it it's financially motivated. He

889
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: makes no bones about it. He doesn't she that in

890
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 1: diplomacy and niceties. He makes very clear that in his

891
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: mind there's a Faustian bargain. Saudi Arabia buys billions of

892
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: dollars of American military are and we have a productive

893
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 1: economic partnership, and that overrides the moral questions about their behavior.

894
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: There's a kind of virtue in that honesty, I suppose,

895
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: but it's very startling to hear Michael speaking of moral questions.

896
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: Another huge story involving some big names who want to

897
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 1: talk about is Facebook, and those names are Mark Zuckerberg

898
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 1: and Cheryl Sandberg. How did we get to where we are?

899
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 1: Where Facebook has become probably the most controversial technology company

900
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 1: in America, if not the world. In some ways, it

901
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: goes back to right after the election. Doesn't seem like

902
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: everything goes back to the election, and when Mark Zuckerberg,

903
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 1: the founder and CEO of Facebook, said the idea that

904
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: Facebook somehow influenced the outcome of the election, that someone

905
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 1: could hijack it or misuse it, and it could influence

906
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 1: who won. That's crazy. And it turns out inside Facebook,

907
00:58:56,680 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: his own employees, his own security official heard him say

908
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: that and said, oh no, he may not understand the

909
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: depth of what has just happened. And what had just happened,

910
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 1: of course, was that Russians who were maliciously intended that

911
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: that's the word. Um, they we just made it one.

912
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: We made it one. They had found ways to use

913
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 1: Facebook to influence American voters, or to seek to influence

914
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 1: American voters in a pret systematic way, and that either

915
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 1: in their minds, their boss didn't know about it, or

916
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: was deliberately misleading people. And what was going on inside

917
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: Facebook was a kind of reckoning with what had really

918
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: happened on this giant social media platform at the hands

919
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: of people who wanted to exploit it. And over time,

920
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 1: we've now learned from the reporting of of my colleagues

921
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 1: at the times, the company sought to tamp down that information.

922
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: They didn't want the world to know in real time

923
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: as they were learning it just how much influenced Russians

924
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: had actually had with this platform. And it got to

925
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: the point where those criticizing Facebook became targets of Facebook.

926
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: And we now know that Cheryl Sandberg, the CE who

927
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: is who's beloved by many for her public profile for

928
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 1: the book she wrote about encouraging women to lean in,

929
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: Who's written after her husband, very very movingly, about losing

930
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 1: a spouse, and about being thoughtful when it comes to grief,

931
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 1: yours others. What we learned is that people underneath Cheryl

932
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 1: Sandberg and Its, seemingly with her permission, had authorized opposition

933
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: research into those who criticized the company, including George Sorrows,

934
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: who is a billionaire investor known for his left leaning positions.

935
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: And so now there are all sorts of questions. Why

936
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 1: would Facebook go after its critics like this? Why would

937
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: it hire a company to do opposite of research. Why

938
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: isn't its instinct to share with the world immediately what

939
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,919
Speaker 1: Russia did on its platform? I think the bigger question

940
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: is sort of like, is this a company that started

941
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: off and has even through its development, is ultimately interested

942
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 1: in bringing people together or is this really a company

943
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: that's interested in kind of like hoovering up all our

944
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: private information, using it for profit, keeping things secret, going

945
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: after critics. I mean that's not the Facebook that you

946
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 1: and I think about when we post baby photos. Soros,

947
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: or at least going after Soros is such a fraud

948
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: thing because he has become unfairly, in my view, a

949
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 1: boogeyman on the right and used to explain all sorts

950
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 1: of conspiracy theories, liberal victories, et cetera in a way

951
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 1: that crosses the line into anti Semitism. And so it

952
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: may have been legitimate, given Soros his history of short selling,

953
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: to look into whether Soros had a financial stake in

954
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 1: what he was saying about Facebook. The reason it it

955
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: set off so many alarm bells is this is exactly

956
01:01:57,480 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: what sort of the most extreme elements on the right

957
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,440
Speaker 1: do you is George Soros as an excuse for everything.

958
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 1: Brett Havanaugh is another huge name, along with Dr Christine

959
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: Blassie Ford. They dominated the conversation for a certain period

960
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eighteen. You all approached it in

961
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 1: a very interesting way at the daily We did, I

962
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: mean we everyone instantly understood that this was going to

963
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: divide the country kind of down the middle in the

964
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 1: way that so many of these kind of national episodes do.

965
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: And there were so many big questions brought up by

966
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 1: this case. One was simply what happened, and did Brett

967
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 1: Kavanaugh do the things that he denied doing, and that

968
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 1: Dr plus Ford said that he did do? And who

969
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: do you believe? And who do you believe? And I

970
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: think there was no satisfying resolution in the kind of

971
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 1: national public conscious conscious when it came to that, because

972
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 1: there wasn't really an investigation done by the Senate Judiciary Committee,

973
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 1: and and that was such a messy, complicated partisan process,

974
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 1: and so everybody was left to kind of come to

975
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 1: their own conclusions about this. And we went to Brooklyn

976
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 1: the Daily to talk to a bunch of young high

977
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 1: school girls about what had happened, and in some ways,

978
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 1: you know, these girls were more thoughtful about it than

979
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 1: members of the U. S. Senate because they understood what

980
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 1: it meant to be in that phase of life. Like obviously,

981
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 1: high schools like a write of passage, and you've got

982
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 1: to make mistakes and learn your way through it. But

983
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: there are certain things that it's just like like saying

984
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:43,959
Speaker 1: hateful things to certain minority groups and things like sexual misconduct.

985
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 1: That kind of stuff follows the victims forever. And if

986
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 1: it follows the victims forever. Well, then you've got to

987
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 1: do with it too, since it's your fault, you know

988
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 1: what I mean. I think when we look back at

989
01:03:55,400 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: this year, the dueling testimony of Christine blasi Ford and

990
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: Brett Kavanaugh, her tone, her vulnerability, his rage, his defensiveness,

991
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 1: and ultimately some of the inconsistencies that we're surfaced about

992
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 1: how he described his behaviors, how other people versus his

993
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: classmates who described him as as drinking much more heavily

994
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 1: than he acknowledged. We're gonna be remembering that testimony and

995
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:29,840
Speaker 1: how it contrasted with her testimony for decades. Well, I

996
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: think it's not just the testimony, it's also the aftermath.

997
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: The result of this hearing was Kavanaugh achieving his lifelong

998
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 1: dream of sitting and serving on the Supreme Court, and

999
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 1: Christine blasi Ford, when last I checked, still couldn't go

1000
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 1: back to her home, still required seven security for all

1001
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 1: the threats that she's gotten. And so the trope that

1002
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 1: you know she's doing this for any reason other than

1003
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 1: telling the truth rings a little bit hollow to me personally,

1004
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: given the costs that this is imposed on her life.

1005
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 1: I do think this was the moment where the me

1006
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: Too movement did lose a bit of steam in the

1007
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 1: eyes of some people who are more traditional in terms

1008
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:24,959
Speaker 1: of gender and societal roles, and they saw this as

1009
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 1: going too far, and people having very very little sympathy

1010
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 1: for the perpetrators of these crimes or incidents suddenly said,

1011
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 1: wait a second, we're not sure we can wholeheartedly embrace

1012
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 1: this moment or this movement as much as we thought.

1013
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 1: Would you agree with that? I do agree with that,

1014
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 1: because this was the moment when the me too movement

1015
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 1: sort of crashed into American politics, which is sort of

1016
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,920
Speaker 1: split right down the middle, and for the half of

1017
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 1: a country that supports the Republican Party and Donald Trump,

1018
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 1: Brett Kavanaugh seemed more like the victim here than Dr Ford,

1019
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 1: and the fact that there weren't a lot of other

1020
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 1: people who either were willing to come forward or were

1021
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 1: called to come forward to support her side of the

1022
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 1: story was used by Kavanaugh supporters to say, how can

1023
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 1: you destroy this man's life based on the word of

1024
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 1: one person? And I think that went even beyond you guys,

1025
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 1: Donald Trump supporters. I think it was also the feeling

1026
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 1: amongst some older women who just thought it was a

1027
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 1: bridge too far even if they weren't firmly in Donald

1028
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 1: Trump's camp. Let's transition to some other big moments. On

1029
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: election Day, Democrats took the House of Representatives. We now

1030
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 1: know they gained forty seats. Nancy Pelosi is likely to

1031
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 1: become Speaker of the House. What are the consequences for

1032
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 1: politics and twenty nineteen. It means so many things to

1033
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 1: have divided government. Is the difference between a giant tax

1034
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 1: bill passing or not passing, between the possibility of investigations

1035
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:14,919
Speaker 1: with the president happening or not happening, between healthcare being

1036
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 1: fundamentally changed on the country or not changing. And and

1037
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 1: it's a complete game changer for the second half of

1038
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 1: a presidency. Everybody remembers what the first two years of

1039
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 1: President Obama's government looked like when the House, the Senate,

1040
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 1: and the White House we're controlled by Democrats. That's when

1041
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 1: the Affordable Care Act passed. And then the lights went

1042
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: off and the Republicans took back control of Congress, and

1043
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 1: that and and and and basically we had paralysis. And

1044
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: now we're looking at a similar situation potentially with President Trump.

1045
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,920
Speaker 1: We now know that it was the biggest House popular

1046
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: vote victory from one party since the aftermath of Watergate,

1047
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 1: that there was an enormous swing and a huge national

1048
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 1: rebuke in the House to President Trump. So, Michael, one

1049
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:03,600
Speaker 1: trend we may see playing out over the course of

1050
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 1: is an economic slowdown. We've had a very long economic expansion.

1051
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 1: We're due for a recession, if not a slowdown. What

1052
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: do you think the consequences would be if unemployment goes up,

1053
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 1: if growth slows down, if wages don't keep increasing, etcetera.

1054
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 1: I think no one wants to see a slowdown. But

1055
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 1: if there is an economic slowdown, and it feels like

1056
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,360
Speaker 1: we're starting to see science that there could be one,

1057
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 1: but we're not sure that that would be very problematic

1058
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 1: for President Trump. I mean, we talked about President George

1059
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 1: Herbert Walker Bush. The thing that happened to him that

1060
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:41,919
Speaker 1: no one expected was that the second half of his presidency,

1061
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 1: which felt so triumphant, was defined by a recession. And

1062
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 1: I think it will be really interesting to see how

1063
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:51,200
Speaker 1: a president who defines his success by the stock market

1064
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: and by the economic indicators of the country, how he

1065
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:57,200
Speaker 1: will deal with a suddenly souring economy. I don't I

1066
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:59,080
Speaker 1: don't think he would deal with it very well. We've

1067
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 1: started to see him scream at the Federal Reserve chairman

1068
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 1: for doing something that the President didn't like on interest rates.

1069
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 1: And it's of course unorthodox to respond to a changing

1070
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:12,800
Speaker 1: economy by yelling at the people around you because you

1071
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 1: don't like it. But if that's his response, that that

1072
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 1: could be very politically problematic. Because he is seen as

1073
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 1: a very firm figure when it comes to the economy.

1074
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: I think that's an area of of kind of, in

1075
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 1: a sense, almost unmitigated success for this president. So if

1076
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: it begins to change, I don't know how he will respond,

1077
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 1: and I think he will be very flustered. What about

1078
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:36,200
Speaker 1: gun violence, you know that dominated the headlines in two

1079
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:39,799
Speaker 1: thousand eighteen. Do you think anything is going to change?

1080
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 1: I mean, at a national level, a huge percentage I

1081
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:49,639
Speaker 1: think want want universal background checks, for example, and yet

1082
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 1: I think people are very frustrated that nothing seems to change.

1083
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 1: So you see that any movement in this area at all,

1084
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 1: I mean I would just to bump stocks. Remember those

1085
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 1: were the devices that everybody seized on and seemed to

1086
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 1: agree shouldn't be on the market because they make it

1087
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:12,640
Speaker 1: possible for a semi automatic weapon to become essentially automatic.

1088
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:16,320
Speaker 1: They were used in that horrible Las Vegas mass shooting,

1089
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 1: and nothing changed, nothing happened. And this was the year

1090
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: eighteen where it felt like an entire generation of millennials

1091
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 1: was activated and animated about guns and gun violence and

1092
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:35,640
Speaker 1: gun controlled by by the Parkland school shooting. And I

1093
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 1: think it's been really sobering for those kids to see

1094
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: how hard it is to make things change, and yet

1095
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:42,760
Speaker 1: I don't see them being dissuaded from it. And it

1096
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:44,439
Speaker 1: feels like they're going to spend the rest of their

1097
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 1: lives on this. And the question is when will their

1098
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 1: time come, if it comes at all, or will they

1099
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 1: be stymied by the kind of the wall of of

1100
01:10:55,120 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: opposition that's so nestled into our political system. Early this year,

1101
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:04,520
Speaker 1: Katie and I spoke to Ali, she from Parkland, Florida,

1102
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:06,600
Speaker 1: and she said very clearly that they're in this for

1103
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 1: the long haul and that progress may come slowly. They

1104
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:12,720
Speaker 1: understand that. I mean, what we may see in is

1105
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:16,839
Speaker 1: the House passing some legislation that then dies in the Senate. Katie,

1106
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 1: you've pointed out that states may take greater action to

1107
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:24,040
Speaker 1: combat the scourge of gun violence, and I think one

1108
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:26,640
Speaker 1: thing we saw in the election is that support for

1109
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 1: gun control could be a political plus in a way

1110
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:33,679
Speaker 1: that maybe it hadn't been previous cycles. People are becoming

1111
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 1: single issue voters on that issue, as we saw with

1112
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:42,680
Speaker 1: the Lucy Macbeth victory in Georgia, which was a surprise

1113
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 1: too many people. And of course at all starts at

1114
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 1: the top. With new leadership potentially in and someone who

1115
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:53,879
Speaker 1: is not beholden to the n r A as President

1116
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 1: Trump is, that could be clearly a game changer which

1117
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 1: brings us to elections. Commonly, Harris has said she's going

1118
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:06,200
Speaker 1: to think about it over the holidays. Mike Bloomberg visited Iowa. Uh,

1119
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 1: there's what a cast of thousands who are considering running

1120
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 1: for the Democratic nomination? How do you see that all

1121
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 1: playing out? And um, you know, are the ideological uh

1122
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:25,599
Speaker 1: differences within the party itself going to work against whoever

1123
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 1: it is who runs against Donald Trump. Either it will

1124
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 1: make it harder for that person, or it will be

1125
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,639
Speaker 1: really clarifying and it will crown that person, whoever he

1126
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:37,599
Speaker 1: or she is. Because there are twenty debates going inside

1127
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party and we can't keep up with all

1128
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:44,680
Speaker 1: of them. But I mean among them are generational. Is

1129
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 1: Joe Biden too old to be the nominee or is

1130
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 1: he just right? Is Elizabeth Warren too progressive or is

1131
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 1: she just right? Um? Is this party or too green?

1132
01:12:56,640 --> 01:13:00,799
Speaker 1: Too inexperienced exactly or is he exactly level of excitement

1133
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 1: that people wanted to do? You have to be an officeholder?

1134
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:05,560
Speaker 1: Can you be an outsider? Donald Trump was an outsider?

1135
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:07,559
Speaker 1: Can the Democrats wrap their head around the idea of

1136
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 1: a celebrity candidate the rock? Yeah? I think that the

1137
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 1: president broke so many of the rules that you have

1138
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:20,599
Speaker 1: to reevaluate the rules to a certain degree. And then

1139
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,840
Speaker 1: you have to answer the questions that the Democrats have

1140
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 1: kind of failed to answer for many election cycles. Now,

1141
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:31,640
Speaker 1: which is is it a party about identity and progressive politics?

1142
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:36,480
Speaker 1: Is it a party that's going to rival the Republicans

1143
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:39,840
Speaker 1: and President Trump around questions of economic populism? Is it

1144
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 1: going to speak to the coal workers? Can it be

1145
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 1: a party that stands for environmentalism and sustainability while being

1146
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 1: sensitive to to the to were traditional forms exactly to

1147
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:58,439
Speaker 1: the coal miner um or those two things incompatible? And

1148
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:00,400
Speaker 1: does it need to bet on an on a new

1149
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:03,720
Speaker 1: exciting outsider or can it be a familiar face who

1150
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:05,640
Speaker 1: stands for kind of the middle. And I mean the

1151
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 1: reality is that it keeps putting off these debates. The

1152
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:13,559
Speaker 1: House strategy that seemed to win this year was a

1153
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:18,840
Speaker 1: message of health care and the economy, and it the

1154
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:22,640
Speaker 1: party forestalled these essential debates about who they are. And

1155
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:25,360
Speaker 1: now it can't do that anymore. It has to figure

1156
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 1: out who it is. And I think, as you say, Michael,

1157
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 1: the debate is going to be as much about the

1158
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 1: past versus the future as it is about the left

1159
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 1: versus the center. You look at the last three Democratic

1160
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:44,439
Speaker 1: presidents Obama, Clinton, Carter, they were all to some extent

1161
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 1: outsiders to the political establishment. They were young, they didn't

1162
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 1: have a ton of traditional Washington experience. Um Nominating and

1163
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 1: electing Joe Biden would be a real break from that.

1164
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:00,519
Speaker 1: But Donald Trump is a break from a law of things.

1165
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 1: So we'll see. I guess the big question is do

1166
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:07,679
Speaker 1: you go with someone who is new, exciting, charismatic, has

1167
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 1: a great message and signals the dawn of a new era.

1168
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:17,719
Speaker 1: But if you do that to risk going with someone

1169
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 1: who's not guaranteed to be President Trump, I think that's

1170
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 1: no one is guaranteed anybody, right, But that's I think

1171
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:27,160
Speaker 1: the question or who has you know? Do you go

1172
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:32,920
Speaker 1: with someone solely because they have enough popular appeal that

1173
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 1: they'll be able to beat the president? Or do you

1174
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:41,800
Speaker 1: usher in this new generation not really knowing if they're

1175
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 1: going to be able to get the job done. My

1176
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:46,599
Speaker 1: advice is always the same, one of these things. Having

1177
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 1: covered so many presidential campaigns, now is there is a process,

1178
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 1: it plays out, it works, there's primaries. I don't know

1179
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:57,360
Speaker 1: why people get so agitated so early. I don't know

1180
01:15:57,400 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 1: why polls get done before beple are even close to voting,

1181
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,160
Speaker 1: but they do. I don't know why people throw things

1182
01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:07,080
Speaker 1: across the table, you know, at family dinners when people

1183
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:12,400
Speaker 1: haven't even announced candidacies. Um, but we have one full

1184
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 1: year before this primary, and I plan on not using

1185
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:19,720
Speaker 1: it to think too much about the presidential election. All

1186
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 1: of us will have plenty to talk about in two

1187
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:27,040
Speaker 1: thousand nineteen, and the dailies will keep you as busy

1188
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:31,639
Speaker 1: as ever and us as informed as ever. Congratulations for

1189
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:35,759
Speaker 1: such great work for not only during two thousand eighteen,

1190
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 1: but two thousand seventeen as well. Thank you, Thank you,

1191
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:40,360
Speaker 1: kat I really appreciate. Thank you. We're big fans of

1192
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 1: the show, big fans, as they say, Michael, thanks for

1193
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 1: thanks for doing our show. My pleasure. So Katie, before

1194
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:53,559
Speaker 1: we wrap our final episode of this show, are wonderful

1195
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:56,320
Speaker 1: producers and I have put together another look back, not

1196
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 1: just at this year, but at the whole run of

1197
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:04,200
Speaker 1: this podcast. Let's have a listen. It all started with

1198
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 1: a trip down to d C in July. It feels

1199
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:10,200
Speaker 1: a little like old Home week for me because here

1200
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 1: we are in the heart Senate office building. When I

1201
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 1: lived in Washington, I covered a lot of stories here

1202
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 1: and I have to say it's a beautiful building. For

1203
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:21,639
Speaker 1: our first episode, we talked with then Senator Al Franken,

1204
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:26,920
Speaker 1: give us your prediction for the fall. I am not

1205
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 1: a prognosticator. That's not what I do. So what I do?

1206
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:34,080
Speaker 1: Do you think Hillary Clinton is going to win? The

1207
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:36,640
Speaker 1: Senator was wrong about that, of course, and little did

1208
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 1: we know that just over a year later, his own

1209
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:44,000
Speaker 1: political career would end. We continued obsessing about the presidential

1210
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 1: election throughout that year with people like Samantha b. Bryan

1211
01:17:49,160 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 1: and I started this by saying I can't wait till

1212
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 1: it's over. Ryan said, he's going to be sad when

1213
01:17:55,439 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 1: it's so. You're Nate Silver made a pretty safe prediction

1214
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:07,480
Speaker 1: right before the election, there are going to be consequences

1215
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:10,599
Speaker 1: of this election, win or lose, are going to persist

1216
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:15,160
Speaker 1: for for many years. And then we got together the

1217
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 1: morning after and tried to make sense of what happened

1218
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 1: with Doris Kern's goodwin. You know, I predicted, obviously wrongly,

1219
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 1: that the morning after people would realize what a big

1220
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:29,120
Speaker 1: thing this was that two forty years after our founding,

1221
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:32,160
Speaker 1: when so many other nations have had their first female leader,

1222
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:37,000
Speaker 1: we finally had a female president. We went back down

1223
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:39,920
Speaker 1: to Washington to catch the last of the Obama administration

1224
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:43,599
Speaker 1: with Valerie Jarrett. Welcome to the White House, Katie, delighted

1225
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 1: to have you, thank you. And just as President Trump

1226
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:49,759
Speaker 1: was taking office, we talked with the impersonator in chief

1227
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 1: NBC Great organization. Yes, sure, Katie schooled the pod Save

1228
01:18:56,080 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 1: America guys, Jason Candersy, the one that did the great

1229
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 1: where he put together the automatic weapon blindfolded. Yeah, he's

1230
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:06,720
Speaker 1: a card carrying badass. We also, obviously Elizabeth Warren is like,

1231
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:10,160
Speaker 1: I want to be a card carrying badass. I think

1232
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:14,879
Speaker 1: you just had to apply. We heard from New Orleans

1233
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:19,439
Speaker 1: Mayor Mitch Landrew Listen, I think that race is really

1234
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:22,760
Speaker 1: hard for us. It's hard for everybody to talk about.

1235
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:25,760
Speaker 1: And I've said many times on this issue. We have

1236
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:30,040
Speaker 1: made a lot of progress, but we're not finished. And

1237
01:19:30,120 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 1: we talked with New Jersey Senator Corey Booker. So, I'm

1238
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:38,040
Speaker 1: a former mayor and um, I had a fixed stuff,

1239
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:41,720
Speaker 1: um that I couldn't use philosophy, as Fiel Little Guardias said,

1240
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 1: there's no Republican or Democratic way to fix a pothole.

1241
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:46,680
Speaker 1: You just gotta fix it. But it hasn't been all

1242
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:50,280
Speaker 1: politics for us. We've sat down with everyone from Tony Robbins,

1243
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:52,720
Speaker 1: so we're gonna feed a billion people and then an

1244
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:55,360
Speaker 1: i'mgoing hundred million new meals per year. Can I just

1245
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:58,760
Speaker 1: say I give up? I feel so lazy and useless

1246
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:05,840
Speaker 1: after just hearing the this is really impressive to Ena Garden,

1247
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:09,840
Speaker 1: who's in charge of cracking eggs, so I need eight eggs,

1248
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 1: eight eggs of excellent. We were also inspired by the

1249
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:16,559
Speaker 1: strength and talent of so many women we talked to,

1250
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:20,439
Speaker 1: like Ava du Verney working for thirteen years and film

1251
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:23,040
Speaker 1: that closely gave me a set of tools that really

1252
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 1: made up for not going to film school and Martha

1253
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 1: Stewart and then you had this moment in your life

1254
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:32,320
Speaker 1: when you were in prison. What was that like for you? Mean?

1255
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:35,600
Speaker 1: Was that sort of like it was horrifying. It was

1256
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:39,400
Speaker 1: horrifying and no one, no one should have to go

1257
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:43,000
Speaker 1: through that kind of indignity. We even got to take

1258
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:46,719
Speaker 1: a peek or listen inside Katie's closet with Marie Condo,

1259
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:50,559
Speaker 1: the Queen of tidying up. So when I was in nineteen,

1260
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 1: I went to university and my hobby then was to

1261
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:58,200
Speaker 1: clean my friends places and then ounds fun. But it's

1262
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:00,960
Speaker 1: no surprise that in these turbulent time so many of

1263
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:04,840
Speaker 1: our conversations turned back to politics and Donald Trump. Like

1264
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:09,960
Speaker 1: with Morning Joe and Morning Mika, He's not interested in policy,

1265
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:12,960
Speaker 1: He's interested in getting the reaction from the tweet. Somebody

1266
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:15,800
Speaker 1: who's loved very close to me just said he loves

1267
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:18,439
Speaker 1: setting the bomb off and just watching him loves float.

1268
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:22,160
Speaker 1: We even went across the pond with the BBC and

1269
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:25,360
Speaker 1: got to bask in the britishness with Doubt Nappy creator

1270
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:29,880
Speaker 1: Lord Julian Fellows. I like the servants more than that

1271
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:34,600
Speaker 1: people's favorite characters. We dealt with big issues and challenging

1272
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 1: subjects on this show, like the Me Too movement. We

1273
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:41,000
Speaker 1: talked about it with Amy Schumer. I identify with with

1274
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:43,439
Speaker 1: all the women in these situations. I kind of my

1275
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 1: mind doesn't go right. Even if it's my friend, I

1276
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:48,240
Speaker 1: don't go oh, but he's a good guy. I think,

1277
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 1: what would it feel like to have been her? You know?

1278
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:53,280
Speaker 1: And Laverne Cox. I noticed when some trans women have

1279
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:56,120
Speaker 1: come forward and said that they have been exactly assaulted,

1280
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 1: there's been a different tenor in terms of the ways

1281
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 1: in which they've and believed we reckon with the scourge

1282
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:05,439
Speaker 1: of gun violence. When we talked to Ali, she student

1283
01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:09,280
Speaker 1: from Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, I'm

1284
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:12,479
Speaker 1: going to ask the question that reporters are told not

1285
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:16,560
Speaker 1: to ask, but somehow I feel is appropriate given the situation.

1286
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:20,479
Speaker 1: How are you doing? Um? I think right now all

1287
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:22,639
Speaker 1: of us are kind of doing the best that we can.

1288
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:26,479
Speaker 1: It's getting used to our new normal that we have

1289
01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 1: at our school, in our community. Right now, we've asked

1290
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:33,720
Speaker 1: the tough questions of people like Jim Comey, a friend

1291
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:36,800
Speaker 1: of mine who's a very respected former federal prosecutor, says,

1292
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:40,400
Speaker 1: the only reason not to fully inform the Attorney general

1293
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:42,920
Speaker 1: was that you knew you were doing something wrong and

1294
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:44,960
Speaker 1: you didn't want to be stopped. I'm curious to hear

1295
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:47,360
Speaker 1: your reaction to that, and we've been able to get

1296
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:50,080
Speaker 1: an inside a look at what happened behind the news.

1297
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:53,840
Speaker 1: Like with former U s. Attorney pre Perra, we had

1298
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:56,640
Speaker 1: a discussion about whether or not we should tape the

1299
01:22:56,640 --> 01:23:00,439
Speaker 1: President of the United States. We decided against that because we,

1300
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:04,080
Speaker 1: unlike Michael Cohen, his own lawyer, I thought it was

1301
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 1: kind of uncool to take the president of the United States.

1302
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:09,960
Speaker 1: And speaking of an inside look, we took a deep

1303
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:13,439
Speaker 1: dive into this political moment with our series on Katie's

1304
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 1: Sarah Palin Interviews ten years later. She was the canary

1305
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:19,880
Speaker 1: in the mind that the party had changed and it

1306
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 1: had become more animated by xenophobia, by nativism, by grievances

1307
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 1: than by any single animating idea. We laughed a lot,

1308
01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:35,640
Speaker 1: you know, the trampoline based workerut I mean, and then

1309
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:39,760
Speaker 1: there's a lot was just there learned a lot. I said,

1310
01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:43,559
Speaker 1: such an underrated beauty to all it really is. She's

1311
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:47,040
Speaker 1: so anti inflammatory and she's so affordable, which is great.

1312
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 1: And listened to Katie sing a lot. There's no business

1313
01:23:52,479 --> 01:23:55,639
Speaker 1: like shoe business. Okay, you got the idea. So you're

1314
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. Were the great Jesus Christ? Prove to me

1315
01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 1: that you're summer loving had me a last summer loving

1316
01:24:05,320 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 1: happened so fast, and I know that if you love

1317
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:15,920
Speaker 1: me to want a wonderful world, this would be through

1318
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 1: it all. My admiration and affection for Katie pretty big

1319
01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 1: to begin with, only got bigger. What a wonderful privilege

1320
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:25,360
Speaker 1: it was to be on this journey with Katie and

1321
01:24:25,479 --> 01:24:27,560
Speaker 1: with all of you for the last two and a

1322
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:43,760
Speaker 1: half years. Uh, that was so nice. Thank you all

1323
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 1: so much for putting that together. And wow, this was

1324
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 1: a really good show. It actually was. That's it, everybody,

1325
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:55,200
Speaker 1: at least for now. It's our last show. I'd like

1326
01:24:55,280 --> 01:24:57,800
Speaker 1: to start off by thanking Stitcher Media, the company that

1327
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:01,640
Speaker 1: Brian and I partnered with to douce this podcasts. And

1328
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:05,080
Speaker 1: a huge thank you to Gianna Palmer, who's no longer

1329
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:08,720
Speaker 1: with us. Well she's with us, she's working, but she

1330
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:13,120
Speaker 1: was our fearless leader throughout much of our podcast times.

1331
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:16,240
Speaker 1: Here and Chris Bannon who was such a big supporter,

1332
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:20,120
Speaker 1: and John Delore who was our audio engineer at the

1333
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 1: very beginning and who helped out tremendously during our two parts,

1334
01:25:24,479 --> 01:25:27,840
Speaker 1: Sarah Palin episodes, and Greta Cone who was our very

1335
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:30,840
Speaker 1: first producer. Um We also want to thank our our

1336
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:36,240
Speaker 1: current production staff, producer Emma morgen Stern, associate producer Noura Richie,

1337
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:40,080
Speaker 1: audio engineer Jared O'Connell who never gets the credit he deserves.

1338
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:42,639
Speaker 1: And a shout out to Brendan Burns at ere Wolf

1339
01:25:42,760 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 1: and Julian Nicholson and Invisible Studios for recording the l

1340
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:49,840
Speaker 1: A side of today's podcast, And of course the team

1341
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:53,200
Speaker 1: over at Katie Couric Media, my assistant Beth de Mos,

1342
01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:58,120
Speaker 1: my social media Maven Julia Lewis, she obviously took Alison

1343
01:25:58,160 --> 01:26:01,479
Speaker 1: Bresnick's place. We mentioned Allison a lot, as you know,

1344
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:04,360
Speaker 1: and Jim Brown, who helped out a lot with the booking.

1345
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 1: You all have helped the production run so smoothly and

1346
01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:12,160
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough. Jared Arnold composed our theme music.

1347
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 1: You can continue to find me on at Goldsmith b

1348
01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:19,320
Speaker 1: on Twitter, and even though the podcast is ending, Katie

1349
01:26:19,320 --> 01:26:22,360
Speaker 1: has no plans to retire from social media anytime soon.

1350
01:26:22,479 --> 01:26:26,760
Speaker 1: Quite the contrary. You can find her on Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat,

1351
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:30,760
Speaker 1: and especially Instagram at Katie Current and Brian and I

1352
01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:35,280
Speaker 1: will have important exciting news to report, so pay attention

1353
01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:39,439
Speaker 1: to our social media channels. Will share with you what

1354
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:43,760
Speaker 1: we're doing on those platforms. And I'd just like to

1355
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 1: say personally, thank you all so much for listening to

1356
01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:50,519
Speaker 1: our podcast. I have to say, you know, I've done

1357
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:53,639
Speaker 1: a lot of different things throughout my career, but people

1358
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:58,200
Speaker 1: who were enthusiastic about the podcast, possibly because we're coming

1359
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:02,240
Speaker 1: through your little earbok uds directly to your brain, have

1360
01:27:02,400 --> 01:27:06,559
Speaker 1: been so supportive and enthusiastic about the work we've done here.

1361
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:10,799
Speaker 1: And we can't thank you enough for really caring about

1362
01:27:10,960 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 1: the things that we care about and wanting to listen

1363
01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:16,960
Speaker 1: to the guests that we've been interested in. Yeah, people

1364
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:18,880
Speaker 1: tell me all the time about how much they've learned

1365
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:22,160
Speaker 1: on this show, while I've learned at least as much

1366
01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:25,720
Speaker 1: as they have working with Katie, working with our terrific team,

1367
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:29,400
Speaker 1: interacting with our listeners. Uh, it's just been a fabulous

1368
01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:32,559
Speaker 1: experience start to finish, So thank you all. For being

1369
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:35,479
Speaker 1: part of this with us, and remember you know you

1370
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:38,599
Speaker 1: can still listen to a lot of the episodes if

1371
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:42,480
Speaker 1: you're interested. If this is peaked your interest in the podcast,

1372
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:45,240
Speaker 1: or you're just feeling nostalgic to hear some of your

1373
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:49,640
Speaker 1: favorite episodes over again, feel free to listen and to

1374
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:52,400
Speaker 1: reach out to us on social media because we'd love

1375
01:27:52,439 --> 01:27:55,439
Speaker 1: to continue to hear what you have to say and

1376
01:27:55,800 --> 01:28:00,880
Speaker 1: understand the issues you're you're interested in, uh learning more about,

1377
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:03,800
Speaker 1: and the people you'd like to hear from. Because we're

1378
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:07,000
Speaker 1: not going away, we're just taking a little break. So

1379
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:11,439
Speaker 1: thanks again everyone so much for your support and Brian Um,

1380
01:28:11,479 --> 01:28:15,120
Speaker 1: you know I'll be calling you at all hours per usual.

1381
01:28:16,040 --> 01:28:34,680
Speaker 1: Why should anything change? Okay? This show is sponsored by

1382
01:28:34,720 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 1: a d T. A d T can design and install

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Speaker 1: secure smart home just for you it Stitcher. I always

1391
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:11,479
Speaker 1: told you you ought to go into politics, Katie. I

1392
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:16,320
Speaker 1: think I said that to her too. Yeah yeah, Well

1393
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:18,639
Speaker 1: maybe maybe between the two of us we can talk

1394
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:24,320
Speaker 1: her into it. I doubt it. Hello, Dead Beats, It's Gabby.

1395
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:26,920
Speaker 1: Gabby Done, host of Bad with Money. I had the

1396
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:29,240
Speaker 1: Bad with Money book come out in January. I'm super

1397
01:29:29,280 --> 01:29:31,880
Speaker 1: stoked for season four. This season, we're going back to

1398
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:35,479
Speaker 1: our roots and I'm having long conversations with amazing people

1399
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:38,440
Speaker 1: and getting the big picture about money and the economy.

1400
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:43,880
Speaker 1: Do you like intersectional queer, social justice based money podcasts?

1401
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:46,679
Speaker 1: This is the only one, so get into it. Did

1402
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:49,680
Speaker 1: you earn it? You deserve to be like a billionaire

1403
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 1: when somebody who's working as a janitor or working in Walmart,

1404
01:29:53,560 --> 01:29:56,839
Speaker 1: or teacher or a teacher, yeah certainly, or a teacher

1405
01:29:57,120 --> 01:29:59,120
Speaker 1: who may be working just as many hours as you,

1406
01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:01,840
Speaker 1: maybe just as smart it as you like? Does that

1407
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:04,639
Speaker 1: make it okay that you have so much? I get

1408
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:06,920
Speaker 1: paid once a month, so my my check accounts huge.

1409
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:09,080
Speaker 1: It's like a tidal wave comes in and then on

1410
01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:12,839
Speaker 1: the second it's empty again. Oh my god, speaking my language.

1411
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:15,920
Speaker 1: Bad with Money is back now for season four, Listen

1412
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:18,760
Speaker 1: and stitch your Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.