WEBVTT - There is No Back to Normal 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.960 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Okay EFFI Daily with 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:19.799 me your Girl, Danielle Moody, recording live from Podstream Studios 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:23.720 here in Times Square, Folks, I am going to get 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:26.680 into a very in depth conversation with our friend and 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.720 in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel about where we are 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.560 with COVID nineteen and kind of unpacking the confusion around 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:36.519 the booster shots. Do we get them, do we not 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:38.640 get them? Are they going to be widely available? Are 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:41.120 they not going to be widely available? But before we 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:45.240 get into that conversation with Jonathan, this breaking news has 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:49.640 just come in, which is this. According to MSNBC, COVID 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:53.680 nineteen has now killed about as many Americans as the 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:59.400 nineteen eighteen nineteen nineteen Spanish flu pandemic. And let's just 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.200 say this if you are unclear about where the number 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:09.520 stands right now, is that right now, COVID nineteen has 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:15.639 killed six hundred and seventy five thousand Americans. Think about 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:20.520 that for a moment. Six hundred and seventy five thousand 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:25.120 Americans have lost their lives through this pandemic. We know 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.320 that a large portion of those that lost their lives 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:33.640 happened in twenty twenty, before there was a vaccine that 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.520 was eligible, before we knew that we were going to 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:40.000 have a vaccine, and we were still understanding how this 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.800 virus was working and moving. It's so hard for me 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:47.880 to really think about where we were last year, when 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:52.640 we were applauding healthcare workers, when we were sending encouraging 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:57.800 notes and sending pizzas and cupcakes to hospitals, and now 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:01.760 a year later, we're holding protests and taking horse hormones 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:05.720 and doing everything and anything that we can to either 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:10.880 deny the fact that COVID nineteen exists, to really trample 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.280 on the memories of those who have lost loved ones. 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:18.119 And let me remind you, I am one of those people. Right. 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:23.679 My family lost my step grandmother just a couple of 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:26.720 you know, when you look at it, November will be 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:30.960 a year. Right. She was a very healthy, vibrant, seventy 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:35.160 something year old woman who got COVID and within three 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:39.640 weeks was gone. There are so many Americans now that 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:41.919 have that story. Because when we think about the six 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.720 hundred and seventy five thousand people that have lost their lives, 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:50.080 how many families, how many friends, we are getting to 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.320 a place where every single one of us will know 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:57.600 someone close to us that will have been lost to 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:02.200 this virus. And yet we still have politicians going on 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:06.959 television spreading lies and we do nothing. They're not fine, 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:10.920 they're not jailed, they're not called treasonous. It's just the 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:13.799 way of the world now. And what I want folks 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:15.800 to understand two and this it will be part of 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.680 the conversation that I have with Jonathan later, is the 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.600 fact that there is no going back to normal. And 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.919 I understand that that is an overwhelming thing to wrap 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:30.600 our minds around, because to me, pre COVID life seems 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:36.160 lifetimes away. It seems like I don't even really remember 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:40.200 what happened in twenty nineteen. I don't really remember what 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:42.760 it was like to get on the train and not 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.320 double mask, or to not want to sit next to people, 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:51.280 or to go to large events. Now, of course, there 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.520 are people who have been acting like nothing has changed 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:58.080 over the course of the last nineteen months and continuing 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.640 on with their selfish ways with life is normal. But 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:04.760 it's not. And no matter how many types of gas 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:09.160 lighting that the Republican Party tries to throw our way, 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.960 I mean, go and talk to your local mortician, Go 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.840 to the local funeral home, Go to the local hospital, 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:20.080 and not for a protest, but to talk with healthcare workers, right, 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.479 who can tell you firsthand what they've been seeing and 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.360 what they've been going through. Go sit down with one 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.920 of the members of your community. I'm sure there are 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:33.400 many that have lost loved ones to the pandemic. This 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.360 is something that I don't think that America is ever 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.360 going to get over. And when we finally have some 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:42.080 distance between us and this pandemic, I can't wait to 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.839 see what is going to be written, because my assumption 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:46.320 is that it's going to be the same kind of 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:50.279 bullshit that's written about slavery, or not written at all. Right, 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.400 we're going to pretend that Americans were all together, and 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.000 we're going to pretend that there wasn't divisiveness, and we're 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.039 going to pretend that doctors and healthcare workers weren't being 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.919 beaten up or threatened. Right, We're going to pretend that 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.640 Americans were united and that we were patriots and that 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.200 we face this problem together. That will be the fucking 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.920 fiction that is fed to children generations from now, if 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.240 in fact the planet is still around. You know, because 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.080 we also ignore the fact that climate change is ravaging 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:22.120 this country as well as this health pandemic. You know, 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:26.599 it's a troubling place that we are in, and what 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.880 continues to come up for me is that this is 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:35.559 just the way things are, and I feel that that's 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.440 what is getting my spirits down. And why I say 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:42.200 to folks, we got to be very conscious of boosting 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:47.880 our own serotonin levels, of creating protective boundaries around ourselves, 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:52.159 around our loved ones, so that we don't allow these 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:57.080 you know, joy vacuums to steal. You know, what goodness, 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.640 what little bit of goodness does exist on a day 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:03.520 to day basis, But it is our job to find 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.680 that goodness, to find those silver linings, because there is 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:13.479 just so many clouds around us everywhere that we look. 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.159 And so friends, you know, as we go through and 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:21.680 have this conversation with Jonathan and unpack where we are currently, 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.600 I will again reiterate that it is important for you 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:29.560 to ground yourself in something other than misery. And I'm 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.640 not telling you to not pay attention, but I'm saying 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:36.479 to do so in sparingly ways. Protect your spirit, protect 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:39.880 your energy, and protect yourselves so that you have the 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.080 strength and the wherewithal to be able to navigate during 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:47.719 these hard pressed times. Coming up next, dear friends, is 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.600 my conversation with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.440 to unpack what is the latest and what we need 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.360 to know with regard to COVID. The booster is, the 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:05.840 FDA and the CDC. I am always so pleased to 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.800 work through the apocalyptic present that we are living in 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.480 with our friend, our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:18.000 the most patient man in America. Jonathan. One of the 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.280 things that I wanted to talk to you about that 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:24.320 happened at the end of last week was the FISER 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:29.400 board voting against the booster shots, right the expansion of 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.760 the booster shots outside of sixty five and up who 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.520 have pre existing conditions, and the board deciding that now 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.160 is not the time for that booster shot, but then 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:41.720 coming back and saying that it's fine for those that 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:45.640 are sixty five and older. Can you talk about this 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:50.200 voting and why they voted against the booster shot, and 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:55.480 then why the administration initially came out and said everybody 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.000 needs a booster and the boosters will be widely available 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.760 in October, and now that is not the case, and 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:05.440 because this back and forth, right, like even I was 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:09.160 sitting at home with my family, My mother, because she 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:13.600 had brain surgery last year, would be eligible. My dad, no, 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:15.840 he would He would not be because he doesn't have 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.520 a pre existing condition and is not in the age 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.040 range category, but they were. My mother, who is a 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:27.000 retired registered nurse. It like everything just seems so confusing. 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:30.360 And we're sitting there and we're very studied and like 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:32.920 thoughtful people, and we're like, what the hell is going on? 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:37.199 So can you walk us through the decision by Fizer, 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.600 then the voting of no, then the voting of yes, 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.600 and how it is in contrast to what the administration 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.240 had said, which is then in contrast to what the 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:50.880 CDC said with regard to the booster shot. Well, it's 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.560 certainly confusing, and I understand that people are confused. I 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:55.439 mean people have to realize, first of all, this is 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:59.160 happening in real time, right, It's we're what are we 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.280 It feels like nine thousand years into this pandemic, but 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.080 it's pretty much really it really is, like you know 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.600 it's so but you know, it's going to take us 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.120 ten years to figure out what exactly the right thing 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:13.800 is to do here, I will say, and you you can. 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:16.640 I feely feel pretty strongly that what's going to happen 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:20.640 here a couple things. First of all, boosters are going 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:24.360 to become much more than norm. I think the problem 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:29.000 was the file that was given to the FDA had 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.000 just a very low number of cases, so it wasn't 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.800 convincing data from a kind of mass population standpoint to 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.960 justify everybody getting a booster, and so I think they 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:42.640 were rightly skeptical because what's called the end the number 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.560 of people who who were in the study was just 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:47.840 not high enough to know what's the benefit of this. 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.559 But there is a lot of research happening in places 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.080 like Israel where boosters are very widespread that I think 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:59.880 is showing that the boosters increase antibodies, they increase defense 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.600 as they give you probably another six months of protection, 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.000 and things like that. So I do think that's where 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:09.160 we're going. The issue is though, that now the whole 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.920 world needs to get vaccines, and so as we move 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:13.880 toward I mean, this was just the beginning of the 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:19.199 decisions about boosters. Again, I'm very certain that boosters are 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:24.160 going to become the norm going forward, because they work. 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.280 I mean, the study is in Israel, for example, and 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.680 a Jay and Jay study that came out today showed 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:33.800 a real significant benefit at least in the short immediate 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.200 term from boosters in the face of what we're finding 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:42.760 to be waning efficacy unfortunately from the vaccines over time. 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.040 But the issue is also going to be a supply issue, 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:50.560 because more important than boosters are getting everybody in Africa vaccinated, 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:54.120 getting everybody in South America vaccinated. And so I think 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.440 that we're going to like there's a moment now where 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:58.920 there's just a lot of surplus in the United States. 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.160 And I think the one downside of the way this 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:04.200 is playing out is that boosters are going to become 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:08.760 more the norm as potentially supply goes down. And I 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.120 think that's what I think, That's what I don't know, 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:12.960 but I think that's what the Biden iministration was trying 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:17.520 to do, is to push the boosters even as they 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:19.920 obviously we're you know, we're giving a lot of buyers, 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.200 a lot of vaccine to other parts of the world 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.320 right now. Um, But so I think it's not the 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.200 it's not the end of this story. It was just 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.920 that the file that was given to the FDA didn't 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:35.240 have enough sample stuff. But again I don't I think 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:39.600 that what was anticipated to happen will probably be happening 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:42.760 pretty soon, because again, there was an eleven thousand person 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.319 study in Israel and it did show that the vaccines 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:50.520 we're kind of doing what what we thought. The initial 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:54.280 you know, the boosters are are pretty helpful. So let 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:56.880 me ask you this too, because again I'm I'm not 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:01.360 a medical doctor, is what is the difference between a 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:07.760 booster and your second shot of the vaccine. So, for instance, 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:13.160 if I'm concerned, right, I got my maderna shot at 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:17.199 the beginning of this year, right, And so now we're 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:19.760 moving into a place where I'm just like, am I 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:23.160 still covered? Right? I obviously live in New York, So 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.680 we're wearing masks and you know, and you have to 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.520 be vaccinated to be inside, and you know, and wearing 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.000 masks even still and trying to stay outside for as 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.600 long as possible until you know it's unbearable, and then 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.240 I'll probably just go back into my Brooklyn bunker for 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.800 the winter. But what is the difference between a booster 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.800 shot and me going into you know, one of the 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:48.600 pharmacies and just getting another shot of the vaccine just 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:52.000 so that people understand, like what is there a difference 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:57.920 and what you know and what that is. Well, I 0:12:57.960 --> 0:12:59.719 mean no, I'm just saying there's so much to say 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.000 about this right now, and so part of the issue 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:05.880 is so remember we were just saying that you have initially, 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:09.040 you have your antibody response in your your blood, and 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:11.679 then you have memory cells because you you can't have 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.880 too many. Like if you add antibodies to every foreign 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:19.160 pathogen that you came across, you know, dirt and your 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.280 neighbor's terrible music and all these kind of things you 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.040 your you wouldn't have blood because you have so many antibodies. 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:28.439 So your your antibodies are like your first line of defense, 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.679 and then your your blood then also creates these these 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.240 longer term kind of like a stockpile stored away somewhere 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:42.120 of defense and so um. So boosters stimulate the antibody response. 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.760 That's why people after they get boosters applied for two, three, 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.280 four weeks, they could walk through the valley of COVID 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.920 and not get it, which isn't what they do long term, 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:54.240 whereas the long term cells basically they you can get 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:58.080 infected if you have not antibodies but these longer term cells. 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.839 But the minute it's in your then they mobilize. And 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:03.960 that's why people don't get as sick is because these 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:08.360 long term cells won't let the virus take over your lungs, 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.600 for example, or other kinds of dramatic effects. And so 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.960 there are like two lines of defense, and the boosters 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:19.120 are just are just stimulating that in the face of 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:23.400 what looks like potentially waning immunity from the vaccines. And 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.440 so I mean TBD about how this is all really 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.440 going to play out. I mean, I personally thought a 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.600 couple months ago that the way the boosters were going 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.760 to play out was we were actually going to get 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:40.760 boosters that were specifically targeted toward the delta variant. But 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:42.840 I don't know. That seems to have cooled down a 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:44.960 little bit, so we'll have to see what happens. I mean, 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.560 I certainly think that. Remember we called the coronavirus like 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.520 a million years ago, the novel coronavirus, right because it's 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.160 band new, so no humans had any defense against it. 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.680 And really, every time you get something like a shot, 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:01.640 you're just you're just teaching your teach your body to 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:06.520 defend itself against this brand new threat. The hard part 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:10.840 is there are vaccines, and we were hopeful this would 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:14.280 be the case that stop a virus dead in its tracks, 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.040 like the polio vaccine, for example. After years and years 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.680 of trying, we found a vaccine that stopped polio dead 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.960 in its tracks. But unfortunately, because covid is an airborne virus, 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.280 it's just like there's too much of it kind of 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:32.920 floating out there in the air. And so part of 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.800 the issue is the covid vaccine I don't think right 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:37.720 now is ever really going to function like the polio 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:39.400 vaccine where you just get it once and you're done 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:41.040 and you're not going to get it or something like that. 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.400 So this is this is a lot of kind of 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.480 learning in real time right now, as like our economic 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:52.000 and political systems, you know, stry to screare everything up. 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.680 So I think, I mean, honestly optimistically, I hope we're 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:58.240 getting there again. I would follow places that have you know, 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:02.080 politics aside, read that online newspapers of places that are 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:05.600 doing a lot of a lot of boosters, just to 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.360 see how they're reporting on it, Like I read arts 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.320 the Israeli paper as often as I can um other 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.040 places that are doing vaccine, that are doing boosters, like 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:19.080 just seeing it, you can see for me it's no 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.000 big deal. Just go get another shot at CVS or 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.880 something like that. But but I think we'll have to see. 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.440 I mean the downside, and I apologize there's a lot 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:32.360 of information at once, But the downside is we know 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.920 that boosters shorten your immediate Boosters give you an immediate 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:41.560 immediate defense, but we don't know a year from now. Yeah, 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.120 so we're figuring it out. But again I would err 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:48.120 on the side of boosters personally. Um so, but we 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:53.240 just don't And and do we know for instance, um again, 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.000 I was vaccinated at the beginning of this year. Do 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:59.720 we know the efficacy of the vaccine? You know now 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:04.320 that it's been eight months, right, it's been seven or 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:08.040 eight months since I was initially vaccinated. The efficacy of 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.520 the vaccine, like how it is how long does it 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:15.560 take for it to start weaning or not being as effective? Well, again, 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:17.879 we're figuring that out. You're in good shape. You're in 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.120 good shape because you've got the maderna which I think 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:22.800 it's a higher dose of a shot than the visor. 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:27.879 And so again, the Israeli data was all from Visor 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.480 and they found about six to eight months that that's 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.040 when people started seeing like we didn't even know. Imagine 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:36.280 over the summer, early in the summer, we didn't even 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.320 know they were breakthrough infections. Remember how shocking all that was. 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:44.840 And what we found was they were breakthrough infections six 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.879 months to eight months into it, and people weren't remember 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.960 these people were getting infected because they didn't have antibodies, 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.640 but then the memory cells were largely protecting them from 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:58.000 severe illness. And so I think that the key question 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.880 a high level of anti bodies is how long does 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.000 that memory self protection last? And that's really the million 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:07.520 dollars question right now? How long is that memory self 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:11.480 protection last? Right? But unfortunately, the issue is going to 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.760 be there's not going to be a world except Tennessee 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.639 on the party bus where we're not going to also 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:19.880 have to be doing all the other stuff, right, So 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:23.119 it's it's also going to be we're still going to 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:27.639 be wearing you know, our favorite mask and you know, 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:29.119 all those kind of things. We're still going to be 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.400 doing that for a while. So this is people say 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:33.959 it's the new normal. I think it's the new abnormal. 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:35.760 But this is the world we're living in right now. 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.600 All in all, it's good to have a vaccine, you know, 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:44.119 But I mean, I think, you know, the reality, the 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.360 reality is stark, right. You know, we were kind of 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.240 at the beginning of this pandemic, you and I were 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.080 talking about the fact that well, the you know, the 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.080 Spanish flu lasted for two years. Well we're moving into 0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.920 nineteen months, right of COVID being an exist on the planet, 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:04.720 and because of Republicans, right, we're never getting rid of it, right. 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.959 And the reality is is that the desire to go 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.560 back to normal normals seem so far from where we 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.800 are right now. And I don't think that we're going back. 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.199 I do think that this is the new normal. I 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.679 think that getting regular shots, wearing masks are going to 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:23.600 be like our future. I don't see twenty twenty two 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.480 being any different than twenty twenty other than the fact 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.560 that we have, you know, a vaccine and we'll have boosters. 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:33.479 But I don't see how it's really that different. And 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:37.159 I guess that's my last question for you, is you know, 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.760 I don't see there being much of a difference in 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:43.680 twenty twenty two to where we are right now, or 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.239 twenty twenty three or twenty twenty four. What are you 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:51.240 thinking about as the calendar moves on and you know, 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.040 and we're four months, you know, away from the new year. Well, 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.320 think about those first months of pandemic here in New 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.760 York where it was NonStop sirens. I mean, that was 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:06.240 that was about for our lifetimes as traumatizing a time 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:09.040 as you can imagine. And so I just want to 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:11.040 emphasize that we are in a much better place than 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:12.760 we were then where we had no idea what we're 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:17.520 doing and we had no treatment. So now we have 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:20.880 a treatment and we also know. I mean, it just 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:23.080 depends how you look at it. Like I'm I feel like, 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.600 as I said before, there's an apex predator on our 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.440 planet who's not us, But that apex predator has gifted 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.800 us the outdoors. Right, you can go outside. I'm pretty 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.240 much not worry about COVID, So it lets us go 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:39.720 outside and we have to probably get shots until we 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:42.359 figure out a better long term plans. So for me, 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.440 that's better than those first couple months of pandemic where 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.960 everybody was dying like that was. That was horrific, and 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:52.960 it's still happening in parts of the country. So on 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:57.320 a medical and public health standpoint, we're a lot better 0:20:57.359 --> 0:20:59.360 off than we were in the beginning. But the problem 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:03.719 is now it becomes not just about medical treatment, it's 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:07.760 about functioning political systems. And our political system is so 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:10.879 dysfunctional that it really is putting us behind the curve 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:14.679 if you compare us to New Zealand or Iceland or 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:20.159 you know, Fluto, pretty much anywhere else in the galaxy, 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:24.119 because our political system is so fractured and becoming so 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.199 much more fractured because you know, you can either you 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:29.680 can engage with public health or you can weaponize public health, 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:31.840 and it's just being weaponized way too much right now. 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:40.760 That is it for Today's Woke, a f daily podcast. 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:44.000 To hear more from today's show, including my full interview 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.720 with doctor Jonathan Metzel, support me on Patreon at patreon 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:50.800 dot com Slash Woke AF Power to the people and 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:53.960 to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:54.360 as fuck.