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Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Okay EFFI Daily with

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Speaker 1: me your Girl, Danielle Moody, recording live from Podstream Studios

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Speaker 1: here in Times Square, Folks, I am going to get

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Speaker 1: into a very in depth conversation with our friend and

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Speaker 1: in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel about where we are

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Speaker 1: with COVID nineteen and kind of unpacking the confusion around

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Speaker 1: the booster shots. Do we get them, do we not

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Speaker 1: get them? Are they going to be widely available? Are

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Speaker 1: they not going to be widely available? But before we

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Speaker 1: get into that conversation with Jonathan, this breaking news has

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Speaker 1: just come in, which is this. According to MSNBC, COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteen has now killed about as many Americans as the

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighteen nineteen nineteen Spanish flu pandemic. And let's just

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Speaker 1: say this if you are unclear about where the number

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Speaker 1: stands right now, is that right now, COVID nineteen has

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Speaker 1: killed six hundred and seventy five thousand Americans. Think about

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Speaker 1: that for a moment. Six hundred and seventy five thousand

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Speaker 1: Americans have lost their lives through this pandemic. We know

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Speaker 1: that a large portion of those that lost their lives

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Speaker 1: happened in twenty twenty, before there was a vaccine that

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Speaker 1: was eligible, before we knew that we were going to

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Speaker 1: have a vaccine, and we were still understanding how this

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Speaker 1: virus was working and moving. It's so hard for me

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Speaker 1: to really think about where we were last year, when

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Speaker 1: we were applauding healthcare workers, when we were sending encouraging

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Speaker 1: notes and sending pizzas and cupcakes to hospitals, and now

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Speaker 1: a year later, we're holding protests and taking horse hormones

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Speaker 1: and doing everything and anything that we can to either

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Speaker 1: deny the fact that COVID nineteen exists, to really trample

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Speaker 1: on the memories of those who have lost loved ones.

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Speaker 1: And let me remind you, I am one of those people. Right.

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Speaker 1: My family lost my step grandmother just a couple of

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Speaker 1: you know, when you look at it, November will be

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Speaker 1: a year. Right. She was a very healthy, vibrant, seventy

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Speaker 1: something year old woman who got COVID and within three

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Speaker 1: weeks was gone. There are so many Americans now that

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Speaker 1: have that story. Because when we think about the six

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five thousand people that have lost their lives,

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Speaker 1: how many families, how many friends, we are getting to

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Speaker 1: a place where every single one of us will know

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Speaker 1: someone close to us that will have been lost to

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Speaker 1: this virus. And yet we still have politicians going on

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Speaker 1: television spreading lies and we do nothing. They're not fine,

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Speaker 1: they're not jailed, they're not called treasonous. It's just the

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Speaker 1: way of the world now. And what I want folks

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Speaker 1: to understand two and this it will be part of

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Speaker 1: the conversation that I have with Jonathan later, is the

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Speaker 1: fact that there is no going back to normal. And

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Speaker 1: I understand that that is an overwhelming thing to wrap

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Speaker 1: our minds around, because to me, pre COVID life seems

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Speaker 1: lifetimes away. It seems like I don't even really remember

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Speaker 1: what happened in twenty nineteen. I don't really remember what

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Speaker 1: it was like to get on the train and not

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Speaker 1: double mask, or to not want to sit next to people,

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Speaker 1: or to go to large events. Now, of course, there

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Speaker 1: are people who have been acting like nothing has changed

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Speaker 1: over the course of the last nineteen months and continuing

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Speaker 1: on with their selfish ways with life is normal. But

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Speaker 1: it's not. And no matter how many types of gas

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Speaker 1: lighting that the Republican Party tries to throw our way,

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Speaker 1: I mean, go and talk to your local mortician, Go

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Speaker 1: to the local funeral home, Go to the local hospital,

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Speaker 1: and not for a protest, but to talk with healthcare workers, right,

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Speaker 1: who can tell you firsthand what they've been seeing and

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Speaker 1: what they've been going through. Go sit down with one

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Speaker 1: of the members of your community. I'm sure there are

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Speaker 1: many that have lost loved ones to the pandemic. This

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Speaker 1: is something that I don't think that America is ever

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Speaker 1: going to get over. And when we finally have some

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Speaker 1: distance between us and this pandemic, I can't wait to

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Speaker 1: see what is going to be written, because my assumption

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Speaker 1: is that it's going to be the same kind of

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Speaker 1: bullshit that's written about slavery, or not written at all. Right,

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Speaker 1: we're going to pretend that Americans were all together, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to pretend that there wasn't divisiveness, and we're

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Speaker 1: going to pretend that doctors and healthcare workers weren't being

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Speaker 1: beaten up or threatened. Right, We're going to pretend that

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Speaker 1: Americans were united and that we were patriots and that

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Speaker 1: we face this problem together. That will be the fucking

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Speaker 1: fiction that is fed to children generations from now, if

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Speaker 1: in fact the planet is still around. You know, because

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Speaker 1: we also ignore the fact that climate change is ravaging

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Speaker 1: this country as well as this health pandemic. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's a troubling place that we are in, and what

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Speaker 1: continues to come up for me is that this is

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Speaker 1: just the way things are, and I feel that that's

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Speaker 1: what is getting my spirits down. And why I say

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Speaker 1: to folks, we got to be very conscious of boosting

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Speaker 1: our own serotonin levels, of creating protective boundaries around ourselves,

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Speaker 1: around our loved ones, so that we don't allow these

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Speaker 1: you know, joy vacuums to steal. You know, what goodness,

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Speaker 1: what little bit of goodness does exist on a day

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Speaker 1: to day basis, But it is our job to find

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Speaker 1: that goodness, to find those silver linings, because there is

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Speaker 1: just so many clouds around us everywhere that we look.

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Speaker 1: And so friends, you know, as we go through and

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Speaker 1: have this conversation with Jonathan and unpack where we are currently,

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Speaker 1: I will again reiterate that it is important for you

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Speaker 1: to ground yourself in something other than misery. And I'm

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Speaker 1: not telling you to not pay attention, but I'm saying

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Speaker 1: to do so in sparingly ways. Protect your spirit, protect

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Speaker 1: your energy, and protect yourselves so that you have the

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Speaker 1: strength and the wherewithal to be able to navigate during

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Speaker 1: these hard pressed times. Coming up next, dear friends, is

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Speaker 1: my conversation with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel

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Speaker 1: to unpack what is the latest and what we need

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Speaker 1: to know with regard to COVID. The booster is, the

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Speaker 1: FDA and the CDC. I am always so pleased to

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Speaker 1: work through the apocalyptic present that we are living in

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Speaker 1: with our friend, our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel,

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Speaker 1: the most patient man in America. Jonathan. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that I wanted to talk to you about that

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Speaker 1: happened at the end of last week was the FISER

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Speaker 1: board voting against the booster shots, right the expansion of

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Speaker 1: the booster shots outside of sixty five and up who

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Speaker 1: have pre existing conditions, and the board deciding that now

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Speaker 1: is not the time for that booster shot, but then

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Speaker 1: coming back and saying that it's fine for those that

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Speaker 1: are sixty five and older. Can you talk about this

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Speaker 1: voting and why they voted against the booster shot, and

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Speaker 1: then why the administration initially came out and said everybody

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Speaker 1: needs a booster and the boosters will be widely available

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Speaker 1: in October, and now that is not the case, and

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Speaker 1: because this back and forth, right, like even I was

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Speaker 1: sitting at home with my family, My mother, because she

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Speaker 1: had brain surgery last year, would be eligible. My dad, no,

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Speaker 1: he would He would not be because he doesn't have

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Speaker 1: a pre existing condition and is not in the age

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Speaker 1: range category, but they were. My mother, who is a

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Speaker 1: retired registered nurse. It like everything just seems so confusing.

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Speaker 1: And we're sitting there and we're very studied and like

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Speaker 1: thoughtful people, and we're like, what the hell is going on?

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Speaker 1: So can you walk us through the decision by Fizer,

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Speaker 1: then the voting of no, then the voting of yes,

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Speaker 1: and how it is in contrast to what the administration

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Speaker 1: had said, which is then in contrast to what the

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Speaker 1: CDC said with regard to the booster shot. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: certainly confusing, and I understand that people are confused. I

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Speaker 1: mean people have to realize, first of all, this is

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Speaker 1: happening in real time, right, It's we're what are we

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Speaker 1: It feels like nine thousand years into this pandemic, but

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Speaker 1: it's pretty much really it really is, like you know

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Speaker 1: it's so but you know, it's going to take us

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Speaker 1: ten years to figure out what exactly the right thing

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Speaker 1: is to do here, I will say, and you you can.

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Speaker 1: I feely feel pretty strongly that what's going to happen

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Speaker 1: here a couple things. First of all, boosters are going

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Speaker 1: to become much more than norm. I think the problem

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Speaker 1: was the file that was given to the FDA had

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Speaker 1: just a very low number of cases, so it wasn't

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Speaker 1: convincing data from a kind of mass population standpoint to

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Speaker 1: justify everybody getting a booster, and so I think they

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Speaker 1: were rightly skeptical because what's called the end the number

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Speaker 1: of people who who were in the study was just

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Speaker 1: not high enough to know what's the benefit of this.

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Speaker 1: But there is a lot of research happening in places

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Speaker 1: like Israel where boosters are very widespread that I think

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Speaker 1: is showing that the boosters increase antibodies, they increase defense

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Speaker 1: as they give you probably another six months of protection,

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Speaker 1: and things like that. So I do think that's where

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Speaker 1: we're going. The issue is though, that now the whole

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Speaker 1: world needs to get vaccines, and so as we move

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Speaker 1: toward I mean, this was just the beginning of the

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Speaker 1: decisions about boosters. Again, I'm very certain that boosters are

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Speaker 1: going to become the norm going forward, because they work.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the study is in Israel, for example, and

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Speaker 1: a Jay and Jay study that came out today showed

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Speaker 1: a real significant benefit at least in the short immediate

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Speaker 1: term from boosters in the face of what we're finding

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Speaker 1: to be waning efficacy unfortunately from the vaccines over time.

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Speaker 1: But the issue is also going to be a supply issue,

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Speaker 1: because more important than boosters are getting everybody in Africa vaccinated,

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Speaker 1: getting everybody in South America vaccinated. And so I think

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Speaker 1: that we're going to like there's a moment now where

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Speaker 1: there's just a lot of surplus in the United States.

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Speaker 1: And I think the one downside of the way this

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Speaker 1: is playing out is that boosters are going to become

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Speaker 1: more the norm as potentially supply goes down. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's what I think, That's what I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but I think that's what the Biden iministration was trying

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Speaker 1: to do, is to push the boosters even as they

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Speaker 1: obviously we're you know, we're giving a lot of buyers,

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Speaker 1: a lot of vaccine to other parts of the world

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Speaker 1: right now. Um, But so I think it's not the

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Speaker 1: it's not the end of this story. It was just

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Speaker 1: that the file that was given to the FDA didn't

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Speaker 1: have enough sample stuff. But again I don't I think

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Speaker 1: that what was anticipated to happen will probably be happening

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Speaker 1: pretty soon, because again, there was an eleven thousand person

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Speaker 1: study in Israel and it did show that the vaccines

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Speaker 1: we're kind of doing what what we thought. The initial

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Speaker 1: you know, the boosters are are pretty helpful. So let

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Speaker 1: me ask you this too, because again I'm I'm not

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Speaker 1: a medical doctor, is what is the difference between a

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Speaker 1: booster and your second shot of the vaccine. So, for instance,

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Speaker 1: if I'm concerned, right, I got my maderna shot at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of this year, right, And so now we're

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Speaker 1: moving into a place where I'm just like, am I

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Speaker 1: still covered? Right? I obviously live in New York, So

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Speaker 1: we're wearing masks and you know, and you have to

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Speaker 1: be vaccinated to be inside, and you know, and wearing

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Speaker 1: masks even still and trying to stay outside for as

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Speaker 1: long as possible until you know it's unbearable, and then

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Speaker 1: I'll probably just go back into my Brooklyn bunker for

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Speaker 1: the winter. But what is the difference between a booster

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Speaker 1: shot and me going into you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: pharmacies and just getting another shot of the vaccine just

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Speaker 1: so that people understand, like what is there a difference

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Speaker 1: and what you know and what that is. Well, I

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Speaker 1: mean no, I'm just saying there's so much to say

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Speaker 1: about this right now, and so part of the issue

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Speaker 1: is so remember we were just saying that you have initially,

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Speaker 1: you have your antibody response in your your blood, and

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Speaker 1: then you have memory cells because you you can't have

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Speaker 1: too many. Like if you add antibodies to every foreign

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Speaker 1: pathogen that you came across, you know, dirt and your

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Speaker 1: neighbor's terrible music and all these kind of things you

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Speaker 1: your you wouldn't have blood because you have so many antibodies.

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Speaker 1: So your your antibodies are like your first line of defense,

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Speaker 1: and then your your blood then also creates these these

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Speaker 1: longer term kind of like a stockpile stored away somewhere

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Speaker 1: of defense and so um. So boosters stimulate the antibody response.

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Speaker 1: That's why people after they get boosters applied for two, three,

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Speaker 1: four weeks, they could walk through the valley of COVID

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Speaker 1: and not get it, which isn't what they do long term,

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Speaker 1: whereas the long term cells basically they you can get

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Speaker 1: infected if you have not antibodies but these longer term cells.

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Speaker 1: But the minute it's in your then they mobilize. And

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Speaker 1: that's why people don't get as sick is because these

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Speaker 1: long term cells won't let the virus take over your lungs,

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Speaker 1: for example, or other kinds of dramatic effects. And so

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Speaker 1: there are like two lines of defense, and the boosters

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Speaker 1: are just are just stimulating that in the face of

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Speaker 1: what looks like potentially waning immunity from the vaccines. And

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Speaker 1: so I mean TBD about how this is all really

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Speaker 1: going to play out. I mean, I personally thought a

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Speaker 1: couple months ago that the way the boosters were going

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Speaker 1: to play out was we were actually going to get

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Speaker 1: boosters that were specifically targeted toward the delta variant. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know. That seems to have cooled down a

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Speaker 1: little bit, so we'll have to see what happens. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I certainly think that. Remember we called the coronavirus like

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Speaker 1: a million years ago, the novel coronavirus, right because it's

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Speaker 1: band new, so no humans had any defense against it.

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Speaker 1: And really, every time you get something like a shot,

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Speaker 1: you're just you're just teaching your teach your body to

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Speaker 1: defend itself against this brand new threat. The hard part

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Speaker 1: is there are vaccines, and we were hopeful this would

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Speaker 1: be the case that stop a virus dead in its tracks,

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Speaker 1: like the polio vaccine, for example. After years and years

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Speaker 1: of trying, we found a vaccine that stopped polio dead

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Speaker 1: in its tracks. But unfortunately, because covid is an airborne virus,

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Speaker 1: it's just like there's too much of it kind of

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Speaker 1: floating out there in the air. And so part of

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Speaker 1: the issue is the covid vaccine I don't think right

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Speaker 1: now is ever really going to function like the polio

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Speaker 1: vaccine where you just get it once and you're done

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Speaker 1: and you're not going to get it or something like that.

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Speaker 1: So this is this is a lot of kind of

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Speaker 1: learning in real time right now, as like our economic

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Speaker 1: and political systems, you know, stry to screare everything up.

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Speaker 1: So I think, I mean, honestly optimistically, I hope we're

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Speaker 1: getting there again. I would follow places that have you know,

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Speaker 1: politics aside, read that online newspapers of places that are

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of a lot of boosters, just to

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Speaker 1: see how they're reporting on it, Like I read arts

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Speaker 1: the Israeli paper as often as I can um other

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Speaker 1: places that are doing vaccine, that are doing boosters, like

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Speaker 1: just seeing it, you can see for me it's no

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Speaker 1: big deal. Just go get another shot at CVS or

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Speaker 1: something like that. But but I think we'll have to see.

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Speaker 1: I mean the downside, and I apologize there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of information at once, But the downside is we know

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Speaker 1: that boosters shorten your immediate Boosters give you an immediate

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Speaker 1: immediate defense, but we don't know a year from now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we're figuring it out. But again I would err

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Speaker 1: on the side of boosters personally. Um so, but we

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Speaker 1: just don't And and do we know for instance, um again,

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Speaker 1: I was vaccinated at the beginning of this year. Do

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Speaker 1: we know the efficacy of the vaccine? You know now

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Speaker 1: that it's been eight months, right, it's been seven or

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Speaker 1: eight months since I was initially vaccinated. The efficacy of

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Speaker 1: the vaccine, like how it is how long does it

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Speaker 1: take for it to start weaning or not being as effective? Well, again,

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Speaker 1: we're figuring that out. You're in good shape. You're in

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Speaker 1: good shape because you've got the maderna which I think

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Speaker 1: it's a higher dose of a shot than the visor.

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Speaker 1: And so again, the Israeli data was all from Visor

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Speaker 1: and they found about six to eight months that that's

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Speaker 1: when people started seeing like we didn't even know. Imagine

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Speaker 1: over the summer, early in the summer, we didn't even

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Speaker 1: know they were breakthrough infections. Remember how shocking all that was.

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Speaker 1: And what we found was they were breakthrough infections six

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Speaker 1: months to eight months into it, and people weren't remember

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Speaker 1: these people were getting infected because they didn't have antibodies,

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Speaker 1: but then the memory cells were largely protecting them from

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Speaker 1: severe illness. And so I think that the key question

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Speaker 1: a high level of anti bodies is how long does

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Speaker 1: that memory self protection last? And that's really the million

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Speaker 1: dollars question right now? How long is that memory self

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Speaker 1: protection last? Right? But unfortunately, the issue is going to

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Speaker 1: be there's not going to be a world except Tennessee

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Speaker 1: on the party bus where we're not going to also

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Speaker 1: have to be doing all the other stuff, right, So

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Speaker 1: it's it's also going to be we're still going to

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Speaker 1: be wearing you know, our favorite mask and you know,

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Speaker 1: all those kind of things. We're still going to be

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Speaker 1: doing that for a while. So this is people say

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Speaker 1: it's the new normal. I think it's the new abnormal.

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Speaker 1: But this is the world we're living in right now.

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Speaker 1: All in all, it's good to have a vaccine, you know,

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Speaker 1: But I mean, I think, you know, the reality, the

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Speaker 1: reality is stark, right. You know, we were kind of

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of this pandemic, you and I were

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Speaker 1: talking about the fact that well, the you know, the

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Speaker 1: Spanish flu lasted for two years. Well we're moving into

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Speaker 1: nineteen months, right of COVID being an exist on the planet,

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Speaker 1: and because of Republicans, right, we're never getting rid of it, right.

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Speaker 1: And the reality is is that the desire to go

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Speaker 1: back to normal normals seem so far from where we

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Speaker 1: are right now. And I don't think that we're going back.

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Speaker 1: I do think that this is the new normal. I

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Speaker 1: think that getting regular shots, wearing masks are going to

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Speaker 1: be like our future. I don't see twenty twenty two

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Speaker 1: being any different than twenty twenty other than the fact

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Speaker 1: that we have, you know, a vaccine and we'll have boosters.

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Speaker 1: But I don't see how it's really that different. And

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Speaker 1: I guess that's my last question for you, is you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't see there being much of a difference in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two to where we are right now, or

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three or twenty twenty four. What are you

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Speaker 1: thinking about as the calendar moves on and you know,

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Speaker 1: and we're four months, you know, away from the new year. Well,

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Speaker 1: think about those first months of pandemic here in New

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Speaker 1: York where it was NonStop sirens. I mean, that was

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Speaker 1: that was about for our lifetimes as traumatizing a time

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Speaker 1: as you can imagine. And so I just want to

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Speaker 1: emphasize that we are in a much better place than

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Speaker 1: we were then where we had no idea what we're

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Speaker 1: doing and we had no treatment. So now we have

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Speaker 1: a treatment and we also know. I mean, it just

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Speaker 1: depends how you look at it. Like I'm I feel like,

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Speaker 1: as I said before, there's an apex predator on our

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Speaker 1: planet who's not us, But that apex predator has gifted

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Speaker 1: us the outdoors. Right, you can go outside. I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: much not worry about COVID, So it lets us go

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Speaker 1: outside and we have to probably get shots until we

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Speaker 1: figure out a better long term plans. So for me,

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Speaker 1: that's better than those first couple months of pandemic where

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Speaker 1: everybody was dying like that was. That was horrific, and

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Speaker 1: it's still happening in parts of the country. So on

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Speaker 1: a medical and public health standpoint, we're a lot better

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Speaker 1: off than we were in the beginning. But the problem

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Speaker 1: is now it becomes not just about medical treatment, it's

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Speaker 1: about functioning political systems. And our political system is so

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Speaker 1: dysfunctional that it really is putting us behind the curve

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Speaker 1: if you compare us to New Zealand or Iceland or

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Speaker 1: you know, Fluto, pretty much anywhere else in the galaxy,

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Speaker 1: because our political system is so fractured and becoming so

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Speaker 1: much more fractured because you know, you can either you

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Speaker 1: can engage with public health or you can weaponize public health,

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Speaker 1: and it's just being weaponized way too much right now.

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Speaker 1: That is it for Today's Woke, a f daily podcast.

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Speaker 1: To hear more from today's show, including my full interview

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Speaker 1: with doctor Jonathan Metzel, support me on Patreon at patreon

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Speaker 1: dot com Slash Woke AF Power to the people and

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Speaker 1: to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke

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Speaker 1: as fuck.