1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg's Sound On. 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,959 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about the policy prescriptions of the Biden administration. 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: We're not going to hear anymore about Operation warp Speeds. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: They're gonna be calling it the COVID response. We're talking 5 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: right now about jockeying amongst Republicans. Bloomberg Sound On The Insiders, 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: the Influencers, The Insiders Fiding has commented again and again 7 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,319 Speaker 1: that he will unite the country. Who would you think 8 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: Biden has to watch in terms of moderate detectors. The 9 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: House has been voting for this stimulus package basically for months. 10 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Sound On with Kevin Surrelate on Bloomberg Radio, President 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: Biden tries to reset geopolitics on the world stage. I've 12 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: got former officials from the Obama States Department and the 13 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: Trump States Department together talking on a panel about what 14 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: it all means for US China relations around nuclear disarmament, 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: peace talks, and North Korea as well. Plus, we're gonna 16 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: ahead and we're gonna kick the hour off, heading down 17 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: straight to Texas, where I'm going to interview Congressman Jody Arrington, 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: a Republican from Texas, and we've got a lot to 19 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: talk about, including infrastructure, stimulus, and what does he think 20 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: of his senator going to Cancoon. First, though, let's get 21 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: a market check from Charley Pellett. Thank you, Charlie. My 22 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 1: name is Kevin Curilia. I am the chief Washington correspondent 23 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: for Bloomberg Television and for Bloomberg Radio. We begin tonight 24 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: with the big story, and that, of course, is the 25 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 1: ongoing economic trade talks in the situation in Texas, illustrating 26 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: a new need for there to be infrastructure. We're gonna 27 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: talk about geopolitics later on in the program, but let's 28 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: start there, especially as we have our first guest accompanying 29 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: me along with Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis, Congressman Jody Arrington. 30 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: He has a Texas Republican representing the nineteenth Congressional district, 31 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,919 Speaker 1: which includes a large slice of West exist. It's centered 32 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: around Lubbock and uh and his district really does is 33 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: that as ground zero of trade policy talks. It's important 34 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: to his Northwest Texas district where cotton growers export of 35 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: their crop. Okay, does everyone in your district have power? Congressmen? 36 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: Most of us do have power, and at one point, 37 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: at the worst point in this disaster, there were millions 38 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: four million I think plus to the exact who did 39 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: not have power. And uh, you're talking about children's hospitals, 40 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: and you're talking about water facilities where you couldn't get 41 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: quotable water to the citizens, and for example Abilene, Texas, 42 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: which is in my district. And then you had large 43 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: manufacturing facilities, uh, dairy operations. I have one of the 44 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: largest dairy operations, the largest for powdered milk that are 45 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,959 Speaker 1: you know, shipped all over the world, and those folks 46 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: had to shut down. And of course cows don't stop 47 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: milking just because the county has frozen over and the 48 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: gas lines aren't working, so they have to dump millions 49 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: of dollars in product on these fields. So it's it's 50 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: it is, it's been catastrophic, it's wholesale. It's all two 51 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: hundred fifty four counties. And unfortunately things are falling out 52 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: and the clouds figuratively and literally are beginning to lift, 53 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: and we've got a lot of lessons to be learned. Kevin, 54 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: for sure, Well, let's talk about some of those lessons, 55 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: especially in terms of the power grid Uh, do you 56 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: think that there needs to be an infrastructure change in 57 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: terms of how Texans received power? Well, I certainly think 58 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: that the Public Utilities Commission, which oversees er COT. Er 59 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: COT is the independent operator of the electric grid. And 60 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: there's a lot of questions as to why did they 61 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: not have a preparedness the plant and for example, to 62 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: have rolling blackouts in a systemic and organized way so 63 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: that we didn't knock other generating units out which caused 64 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: further problems. I mean, why didn't we win arise our 65 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: assets better? And and then you know why with a 66 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: large portfolio of renewable energy twenty five almost of our 67 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: entire power production in Texas is wind renewable energy. And uh, 68 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: that's great. We're proud to have all the above in Texas. 69 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: But it's still an intermittent source. And when the turbance 70 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: freeze over, you need a baseload of steady, predictable and 71 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: reliable power that's generally going to come from conventional fuel. 72 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: So all of these things have to be better assessed, 73 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: and we have to have better plans, and we have 74 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: to have better communications quite frankly, with the utilities and 75 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: their customers because there was a huge breakdown on that. 76 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: Those are just some the things, uh that that off 77 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: the top of my head that need to be addressed. 78 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: Cornusson Jody Arras is with us. He as a Republican 79 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: from Texas western part of the of the state, and uh, 80 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: you know, I got to be candid here. You know this. 81 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,559 Speaker 1: I've been talking to Democrats all week who are saying 82 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: that the situation and the crisis down in Texas only 83 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: exacerbates the conversation of the need for infrastructure. Do you 84 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: agree with that? I spoke even with a Republican, the 85 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: former Energy Secretary Dan Roulette, this week, and he said 86 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: he thinks that there has to be some more infrastructure 87 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: spending in order to better protect Americans and in this case, 88 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: Texans from these types of catastrophes. Do you agree that 89 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: there needs to be more infrastructure spending. I think we should. 90 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: We definitely need to modernize and expand our infrastructure across 91 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: the board. Energy included. We had a major transportation bill 92 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: that went beyond just transportation, The highway bill included infrastructure 93 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: beyond that. It didn't go anywhere last session. It was 94 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: a purely partisan run. I hope we have a bipartisan product. 95 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: But certainly, Kevin, making the investment in America's infrastructure is critical. 96 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: I think that's one element. But I think managing those 97 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 1: assets within the infrastructure and making sure that the incentives 98 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: are aligned and that people are prepared is another component. 99 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: So I think it's I think that all of the 100 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: above has to be looked at all. Right, and then 101 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: you've got the energy issue. I mean, and and and 102 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: this issue. You know, I think candidly as as you've 103 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: been out and you've said, you've said that it shows 104 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: that the US can't just rely uh solely on on 105 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: renewable energy. Well, you know that this is a very divisive, 106 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: divisive debate, a polarizing debate. But is there any common 107 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: ground that can be forged here between the two parties 108 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: or is this just going to be left versus right? Well, 109 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: there there there are extreme views on the l up 110 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: and the right on this issue of our energy portfolio. 111 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: We can all agree that that's safe, affordable, abundant energy 112 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: is critical to us being the envy of the world 113 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: economically and having a lot of choices we would not 114 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: otherwise have. From a geopolitical or national security perspective, I 115 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: think you've got to recognize renewable isn't as steady and predictable, 116 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: but we have accelerated technology and we continue to and 117 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: I think as you look into the future, it's wise 118 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: to make investments and other sources of renewable because, uh, 119 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: you know, the oil and gas and coal is a 120 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: finite resource. But we also have an abundance of natural gas, 121 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: which burns much more cleanly, and uh it is much 122 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: cheaper than than the other sources. And so we can't 123 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: be hostile to fossil fuels and conventional fuels because again, 124 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: it gives us a quality of life, life and standard 125 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: of living that is an advantage and a blessing for 126 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: our country. So you can't you don't you want to 127 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: include to me the the technologies that we've seen advanced 128 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: in renewable, but you don't want to regulate completely out 129 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: of business these fossil energy. Eighty percent of our economy 130 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: is run on fossil fuels of the world economy is 131 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: so it would be foolish to to, uh to dismiss 132 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: that and to demonize that industry. We've got to be 133 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: able to work together on both sides in a smart 134 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: and strategic way for the best interests of the people, 135 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: not one particular faction over the other. And I don't 136 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: see that enough in Washington quite frankly, Well, you know, 137 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,719 Speaker 1: I want to bring into this conversation Rick Davis. He is, 138 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: of course, the uh former campaign manager to John McCain's 139 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight presidential campaign. He's a partner at 140 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: Stone corep Capital. I mean, Rick, you and I have 141 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: been talking about this situation, in this crisis really down 142 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: in Texas, UH, for for the past week. I mean 143 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: you hear it right there from Congressman Arrington just about 144 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: the debate that this is ignited in where I'm coming 145 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: from in Washington, d C. And in the halls of Congress, 146 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: and and and there's it's the energy debate has really 147 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: become one of the most polarizing issues in Washington. Yeah, Kevin, 148 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: and I think, as you say, not only polarizing, but 149 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: it's very current. Um, you would have thought, after all 150 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 1: the talk of the last four years, that we've had 151 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: this energy independence and incredible growth in in in gas resources, 152 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: as the Congressman points out that uh, that we have, 153 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: especially in the Permian Basement in Texas. I mean, they 154 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: should be proud of the fact that that they've been 155 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: able to exploit these resources to the benefit of people 156 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: who have to pay for power. Um. I guess my 157 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: question slightly different isn't so much on the the source 158 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: of that power, where it's coming from. The debate that's 159 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: very intense right now, and as you say, partisan, maybe 160 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: something less part of and on the infrastructure side, Texas 161 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: Congressman has an unusual situation different from virtually everywhere else 162 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: in the country where they have their own grid. They 163 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: have the Texas grid. It's not connected by and large 164 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: to the rest of the country. And what I understand 165 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: is primarily because they don't want federal intrusion into their 166 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: regulatory policies. Uh. You think the opinion makers or the 167 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: decision makers in Texas are gonna have to re look 168 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: at that strategy based on the fact that you know, 169 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: there were other parts of the country that could have 170 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: shared electricity to help support Texas in their time and need. 171 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: I think that is certainly going to be on the table. 172 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: The legislature meets every other year and they are incession now. 173 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: The governor has already opened up an investigation on what 174 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: has happened. Because there's a lot of moving parts here. Um, 175 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: I think again are taught managing the the assets. This 176 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: was a once in a generation storm. They had a 177 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: lot of megawatch down because they typically in the winter 178 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: do their maintenance because the peak season for US is 179 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: in August six. Yeah, so so we had you know, 180 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: it was that quote perfect storm where generally you can 181 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: manage pockets like in my part of the country and 182 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: up into the Panhandle that that get really cold. But 183 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: but you should know that the Panhandle of Texas is 184 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: part of the Southwest Power Pool, which is a first 185 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 1: regulated um enterprise as opposed to to the grid, as 186 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: you mentioned the Artik grid which is of Texas. So yeah, 187 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: I think that that's one element, But I really think 188 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: it's the question is does Public Utility Commission have enough authority, 189 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: enough oversight authority and are the exercising that are they 190 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: demanding that we have these winterization plans right now? It's voluntary. 191 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: Why would it be voluntary? Why wouldn't we have an 192 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: expectation that we had that level of preparedness, uh for 193 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: the hundred year flood, even though you're not looking for 194 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: that to happen or this an area to happen regularly. 195 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: So again a number of things need to be looked at, 196 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: um and um. But I think all of the things 197 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: have been mentioned, including infrastructure modernization or tapping into other 198 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: sources of energy outside our grid or absolutely um uh 199 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: part of the discussion. You know, I gotta be honest here, 200 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: and I'm taking a left turn because we're gonna move 201 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: away from uh just a little bit, but and doing 202 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: our our team was doing our homework on you for 203 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: this interview. And Uh. My favorite movie of all time 204 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: is Rudy, and I love it because it's about a 205 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: Notre Dame. I'm not even a Notre Dame football family. 206 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: I just love the story of Rudy Rudy Gard. He's 207 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: a walk on. I don't know if anyone's ever seen 208 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: the music or or heard the music or seeing the movie. 209 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: He's a walk on on Notre Dame football. You didn't 210 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: even play high school football and you were a walk 211 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: on for Texas Tech. Tell me that story real quick. 212 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: Well it's you. I did not expect this question, but 213 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: yeah I had. You know. That's what I do. You're 214 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 1: not gonna expect my Ted Cruise question next either, but 215 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: go ahead, no, no, that one. I may be more 216 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: prepared for I wanted to ask him that I had 217 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: my one, my one minute of glory. I didn't. Uh uh, 218 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 1: you know, I didn't play high school football, so I 219 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: would not recommend for health reasons. Uh, anybody repeating my 220 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: mistake and playing trying to play Division one football. But 221 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: I tell folks, I walked on to play football Texas Tech, 222 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 1: and I limped off after the spring football game when 223 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: they gave me my my two minutes of fame. I 224 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: actually ended up tackling a guy because I was so 225 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: poorly trained at the fundamentals that I tackled him by 226 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: his head and my finger went into his ear hole 227 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: and it broke off the tip of my fingers. So yeah, 228 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that in Rudy they carried him out 229 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: on their shoulders. Uh. In in glory and mine, they 230 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 1: carried me out on the stretcher in shame. Well well, 231 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: well kind of. I think there's some parallels to my 232 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: transition from print to television and radio, but I'll leave 233 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: that on another day that it's a Friday show. I'll 234 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: keep it. I'll keep it serious, Okay, joking aside, and 235 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: I mean this seriously. There are millions of Texans who 236 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: are wondering what was Senator Ted Cruz thinking going to Cancoon, Mexico. 237 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna pile on with the political twitter Ozzie 238 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: and and all of that, but seriously, for an elected 239 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: official in a time of crisis to bail on the scene, 240 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: that's gotta make you frustrated. Well, look, he has already 241 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: acknowledged it was tone deaf, So that's I don't think 242 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: that should be enough. Um, I'm glad he's back in Texas. 243 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: And I also as a as a father of three 244 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: young children, understanding this in this business which is busy 245 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: and hurried, and he has the entire state. I've got 246 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: twenty nine counties. You know, you take advantage of opportunities 247 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: to be with your kids, and sometimes that can blind 248 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: you to other considerations. So I'm I give him the 249 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt that it was just toned up. 250 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: He was focused on spending some time with his kids. 251 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: That's uh, that's a lot of a thing as a dad, 252 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, and he's back home in Texas, 253 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: so we got enough to focus on to get out 254 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: of the woods here on this. We're almost there, and I'm, 255 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: like I said, I'm glad he's back. So you're not 256 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: You're not echoing the calls that some Democrats are making 257 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: for him to resign. I think that's ridiculous. And uh no, no, 258 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: I don't think he needs to resign. Um. We all 259 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: exercise judgment that is less than perfect. Um. I know 260 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: I do. UM. I just don't have the profile of 261 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz. And Uh, I know he's got a lot 262 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: of folks paying attention to every movie he makes. Um. 263 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: But most of the moves he makes I think are 264 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: are good and in the best interests of not only 265 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: Texas but our country. So Congressman Jody Arkingson is with us. 266 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: He's a Republican from Texas. You guys are talking about 267 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: a one point nine trillion dollars stimulus deal that is 268 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: continuing to make its way through Congress. Are you supportive 269 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: of this? Is it too much money? What do you 270 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: want to see included in it? Uh? And and you know, 271 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: I mean, when is it going to get past? Well, 272 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna try not to be partisan about it. I 273 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: just want to state what I think are the facts. 274 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: The first answer your question is absolutely, will not support this. 275 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,119 Speaker 1: And it's not like we haven't worked together. I've supported 276 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: the last five that we've done together, we've we've basically 277 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: put together four trillion dollars worth of COVID relief and 278 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: and and recovery stimulus. This one is going to be 279 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: purely partisan. You won't. I don't think you're going to 280 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: get a single Republican in the House on it. And 281 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: so the Turkeys getting stuffed with things that are any 282 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: thing but COVID relief, and quite frankly, things that are 283 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: uh antithetical and contrary to the needs of recovery, like 284 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: paying people more to be on unemployment than on the payroll. 285 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: I think that's a big mistake. We've made it before 286 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: earlier I thought we'd learned from it. There's a bailout 287 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 1: for union pensions that is a problem, Kevin, but not 288 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: one we need to solve under the guise of of 289 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: of COVID relief um and and there are many more. 290 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: The federal mandated wage. Let's debate the minimum wage, but 291 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: don't stick it in a COVID related relief package. And no, 292 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: the cities and states don't need three fifty billion dollars. 293 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: We know from from from data that it's fifty or 294 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: less billion in loss tax revenue across the country. That's 295 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: the cumulative tax laws at states in the Union. So 296 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: where is all this other money going? Uh, that's a 297 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: problem for me, especially when you're winny eight trillion dollars 298 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: in debt, four trillion depths of spending last year. We've 299 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: got to spend some money to stave off a further 300 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: and worse crisis. But we've got to consider the fact 301 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: that somebody's gonna pay the tab on this. And if 302 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: we're not targeted in our policies, if we're not temporary 303 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: in the nature of our policies to help our fellow 304 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: Americans get back to their feet, we're gonna have a 305 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: far worse sovereign debt crisis or or something of that 306 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: effect for our children and grandchildren. I just don't think 307 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: it's wise for policymakers too to operate the way I've 308 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: seen out of this last you know, almost two trillion 309 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: COVID relief package. Congressmen picking up on that a little bit, 310 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: because I mean, we know that we've already invested an 311 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: enormous amount for trillion almost in in COVID relief, and 312 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: some of those same provisions you point out that you've 313 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: supported or Congress supported in a bipartisan way. Uh during 314 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: the Trump administration. Aren't getting the same level of bipartisan 315 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: and support today. And and arguably I don't think anybody 316 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: sees the end of the crisis right now. Right. I 317 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: think we've all agreed on one thing, right that this 318 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: isn't just going away. And so so if if if 319 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: you remove some policies that are clearly not going to 320 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: make it through the Senate, well, I say, clearly the 321 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: debate will be stiff on things like the minimum wage increase. 322 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: Can you see there being a compromise package that could 323 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: have come out of the House if there had been 324 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: more bipartisan engagement, Uh, you know, in excess of um, 325 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: you know, the policies or the or the budget levels 326 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: of trillion dollars? Is it? Is it all about the 327 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: money or is it about the programs. It's a little 328 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: bit of both. But it wouldn't be as much about 329 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: the money if you didn't have massive bailout programs embedded 330 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: in it. So it's a little bit of both. But 331 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: I think, for example, President Trump was big on more 332 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: cash assistance. He didn't think the amount that we had 333 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: six hundred dollars was enough to do anybody any good. 334 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: You know what. I'm not a big cash assistance guy. 335 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 1: I'm a fiscal hawk. I'm in a very conservative part 336 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: of the country. But I agree if you're gonna help 337 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: somebody in a very unconventional circumstance with an unconventional you 338 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: know way, I mean a lot of these things are 339 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: very out of the box for government. But this is 340 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: an unprecedented disaster. I would say that's probably true. Six 341 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 1: is probably not gonna help some some fellow American that's 342 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: still struggling because their industry hasn't quite recovered. Um. But 343 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: but I I actually offered an amendment on ways in 344 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: the during the Ways and Means Committee mark up and said, 345 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: let's do this. I'll support that, but you have to 346 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: have an economic harm test. That is, if you've had 347 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: no economic harm, you haven't lost. The test was you 348 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: have to have lost ten percent of your annual income 349 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: year over year from nineteen to twenty. If you have, 350 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: then you get this additional cash assistance like a means 351 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: task for that policy. Right yeah, well yeah, candidly, if 352 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: you've even got to get the calculator out to do 353 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: the math, chances are you don't need the check. But 354 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: can I can I just follow up on this because 355 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: this is really important. You know, you mentioned specifically about 356 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: making about raising the question that if people don't need 357 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: the financial assistance, then maybe they shouldn't be getting the money. Okay, 358 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: but and you said maybe some industries, uh, you know, 359 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: haven't gotten out of the pandemic yet. Well, let's be 360 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: candid here, Congressman Arringtons. Some industries aren't coming back, and 361 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: some people aren't going to be able to return to 362 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 1: their jobs, particularly Americans who are in industry and lower 363 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: income jobs. There's no money in the stimulus for retraining. 364 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: There's no money in the stimulus for building a ramp 365 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: for new industries in a post pandemic economy. Or policy 366 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: makers is this even on their radar? I wish people 367 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: thought ahead like you just described, but the don't, And 368 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: we don't fix the even the roof until it's leaking 369 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: or until the hundred year flood, and and so yeah, well, 370 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: I just think that that sort of bigger picture, forward 371 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: looking investment would make sense. But instead I think we're 372 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: looking back too much, and we're providing moneys that I 373 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: don't think are going to make much difference. Some people 374 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: will get money that don't need it and haven't had 375 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 1: any economic harm. Some people are gonna get paid more 376 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,479 Speaker 1: to be on unemployment. You know that The list is 377 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: I think pretty long. It's not that there wouldn't be 378 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: a targeted way to address some of the gaps that exist. 379 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: But remember, this guy's a trillion dollars is still out 380 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: there unspent. Look at the state and local moneies for 381 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: assisting them. Look at the education moneys. Almost in every 382 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: category you have kins, if not hundreds of billions of 383 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: dollars unspent. This to me is is egregious as a 384 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: producer of the taxpayer that we're talking about two trillion 385 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: when we've got a trillion that we haven't seen work 386 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: through the system to make sure that it's meeting the 387 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: desired you know, effect quickly. Uh. Senator Mitt Romney has 388 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: introduced legislation that would raise the minimum wage, and it 389 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: would provide a tax credit for upwards a two thousand 390 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: dollars I believe, for for the for the child tax credit. 391 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: Are you supportive of those measures? I'm not. Because the 392 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: minimum wage is going to hit about a million and 393 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: a half jobs, taken them completely offline. It it hurts 394 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: working people more than it helps them. The market sets 395 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: the price, sets the wage. There are opportunities to be 396 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: mobile in this robust and diverse American economy that it 397 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: doesn't work. To me, it's just you're trying to cover 398 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: the It's you're gone around, but it's still bad. Congress 399 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: and Jody Arrington and eminem Fan and a walk On 400 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: a College walk On appreciate at the time. That's my 401 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,880 Speaker 1: favorite you two song. I'm Kevin Sireli. This is Bloomberg. 402 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Sile on 403 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. My name is Kevin Suiley, and I am 404 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: the chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for Bloomberg Radio. 405 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 1: And I'm accompanied by Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis. We 406 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: begin this half hour with the big geopolitical developments of 407 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: the day. President Biden making his first international address as president, 408 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: virtually during the Unich Security Conference. I've got sound on 409 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: his message, which is America is back. I have to 410 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: push back against the Chinese government's economic abuses and coercion 411 00:24:55,359 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: that undercut the foundations of the international economic system. Everyone 412 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: everyone was played by the same rules. He had a 413 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 1: lot to say, not just about China, but also on Russia. 414 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: Here's the sound on that Kreminin attacks our democracies and 415 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: weaponizes corruption to try to undermine our system of governance. 416 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: Russian leaders want people to think that our system is 417 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: more corrupt or as corrupt as theirs, But the world 418 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: knows that isn't true, including Russians, Russia's own citizens. And 419 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: he also had a message for NATO. Here's the sound 420 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: to the Western allies. The United States is fully committed 421 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: to our NATO alliance, and I welcome your Europe's growing 422 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: investment in the military capabilities that enable our shared defenses. 423 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: Joining us now for the next half hour. Shmali She 424 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: is the CEO of Greenwich Media Strategies, former Treasury spokes 425 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: the person for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence, also the host 426 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: of oh My World on YouTube and his making his 427 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,719 Speaker 1: first appearance on Bloomberg Sound on len Kodorkovsky. He is 428 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: the former Deputy Assistant Secretary for Global Public Affairs at 429 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: the State's Department, serving also as a former senior advisor 430 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: so the U S Special Representative for Iran under of course, 431 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. Hagar lend. Great to 432 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 1: have you both with me. I want to start just 433 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: with your broad takeaways from President Biden's first major geo 434 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: political address, Lan, I'll start with you, Uh, thanks a lot. 435 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,239 Speaker 1: Great to be on with you. Um. Well, I mean, 436 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: I think the big message from President Biden was I'm 437 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: not Trump, uh, and that's I guess that is that 438 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: that is what he thought that our European allies needed 439 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:51,959 Speaker 1: to hear. Um, which is fine. I get that strategic positioning. Uh, 440 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: but it's a lot easier to uh to say things 441 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 1: that are our allies want to hear. It's a lot 442 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: harder to for allays, for all of us to make 443 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: hard decisions on on things that are uniquely priorities for 444 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: the United States, which there are. Of course, there are 445 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: plenty of things that we uh that that we have 446 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: in common, and it's important to cooperate with all of 447 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: our allies. And I would just say it's it's important 448 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: to cooperate not just with our European allies, but our 449 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: allies worldwide, which the Trump administration actually did and you 450 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: know the proof, proof and the putting. There was a 451 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: rejuvenated cooperation with our allies in the Middle East, which 452 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: produced Abraham Accords a rejuvenated quad with India, Japan, Australia 453 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: too to counter China's influence UH in Southeast Asia. So 454 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: there's there's there's a lot that we have in common, 455 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,239 Speaker 1: and we should continue cooperating on things that we align on. 456 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: But it's also important to to speak frankly to our allies, 457 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: and I'm sure they'll agree that there are certain things 458 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: that we need to uh agree to disagree about. And 459 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: how Gar, I think, I think that's an interesting point 460 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: that that Lund raises, and we're going to unpack some 461 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: of that, especially on China as our conversation unfolds. But 462 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: before we do that, what we're your takeaway, Cigar, Well, 463 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: I think that you know, President Biden is very focused 464 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,479 Speaker 1: on putting the United States on the global stage, right 465 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: he has said this a number of times, and he 466 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: has focused on reinforcing the relationship with the allies to 467 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: achieve those goals. And so, where whereas President Trump pursued 468 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: a lot unilaterally except for the Abraham Accords, as as 469 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: Len mentioned and a few other things, this administration is 470 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: going to look toward pursuing its goals in China or 471 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: Iran or Russia very heavily with its allies in tow 472 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: and so the issue there is that, you know, a 473 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: multilateral approach can be very successful in terms of having 474 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: something along lasting where the administration and this is where 475 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: I thought where something that I noticed with with President 476 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: Biden's speech where they're going to have to walk a 477 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: fine line is where President Biden has been very clear 478 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: on behave here that he will and won't tolerate. Right. 479 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: He has talked about China human rights abuses. In fact, 480 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: there are a lot of goals regarding China that I 481 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: think both President Biden and former President Trump agree on. Um, 482 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: it's the tactics that are different. And uh, and so 483 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: President Biden to me seems like he's putting in a 484 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: very big effort to to show the world that we're 485 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: not going to stand for this behavior in China or 486 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia or Russia you know that, or Turkey, that 487 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: when we see this type of nefarious behavior or or 488 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: or human rights abuses or things that we don't stand 489 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: for tolerate. He's going to say it very clearly, and 490 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: at the same time he's going to need to walk 491 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: define line where he also gets the allies and tow um. 492 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: And so that's how I viewed his statement today. Hey, 493 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: I was wondering if we could unpack a little bit 494 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: more on Russia, because that did seem to be the 495 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: one area that had the biggest difference between the treatment 496 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: and the Trump administration and what seems to be the 497 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: future in the Biden administration, I mean Joe Biden. Today 498 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: the President said that Russia is an adversary. Kind of 499 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: the toughest language he used with anybody he talked about today. 500 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: He talked about Ukraine a festering problem in the in 501 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: the region, but he also talked about cybersecurity. We know 502 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: the solar winds project that had links to the Russian 503 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: for an intelligence has been a major issue internally in 504 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: the US. UM, how do you see len uh this 505 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: new administration taking on Russia as a as a topic, 506 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: and maybe if you could come in after him to 507 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: to give your point of view. And we got a 508 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: quick gotta keep this far quick, We got like forty 509 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: five seconds on So go ahead, sure, I listen. I 510 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: I welcome focus on Russia. And where I would start 511 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: with our our friend in Germany where Russia is slater 512 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: to build North Stream to a pipeline that will that 513 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: will you know, provide a lot of cash to Russia, 514 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: and so I welcome cooperation with our with our European 515 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: allies to focus on the energy. Yes, you, and of 516 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: course cyber security as well, you know, And I think 517 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: it's a really fascinating point, especially just to hear or 518 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: the pressure that the Trump administration put on European allies 519 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: and versus the tone book that that all three of 520 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: you are mentioning the tone shift from the Biden administration, 521 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: which is just saying, all right, we want to see 522 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: you if you want to see on board a bunch 523 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: more with the panel coming up next, great conversation. I'm 524 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: Kevin Curreli. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Sound 525 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: On with n on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Kevin Surreali, Chief 526 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: Washington correspondent for Bloomberg TV and Radio. Rick Davis is 527 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: with me Bloomberg Politics Contributors. Special programming note coming up 528 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: on Monday, an exclusive interview with Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman 529 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: Mark Warner, the Democrat from Virginia, is going to join 530 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: me uh for a special conversation about the solar winds saga. 531 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: Really and this hearing that's gonna be on Tuesday of 532 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: next week about the intelligence community. Marco Rubio is the 533 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,479 Speaker 1: top Republican on the on the Intel Committee in the Senate, 534 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: and they're really investigating about what happened with solar winds, 535 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: So be sure to tune in on that for that conversation. 536 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: Joining me now, uh, none other than Len Khodorkovski. He's 537 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: the former Deputy Assistant Secretary for Global Public Affairs at 538 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: the State's Department under Mike Pompeo, and he worked specially 539 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: in the Iran portfolio. Uh. And I gotta tell you, Len, 540 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: this is your first time on the program. I know 541 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: you'll be back with me and Christine Barata are executive producer. 542 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: We're talking. We were so used to talking with you 543 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: behind the scenes. We said, Len's pretty good on air. Lenn, 544 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: what have you been up to since you got out 545 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: of the State's Department. Well, you know, it's been my 546 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: uh my big reveal, I guess, uh, you know, during 547 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: my during my time at State Department, I usually work 548 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: to get uh you know, my my bosses on the 549 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: air and some airtime. So it's it's nice to be 550 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: out there and um, your big moment you're stepping in 551 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: front of the bright lights. He's been down in Florida. 552 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: I gotta be honest. He's you know, it's been snowing 553 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: here in Washington and now he's like he's sending he's 554 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: with palm trees and kept getting some well deserved are 555 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: in our time after traveling the world during the past 556 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,959 Speaker 1: four years. Cigar, you're the CEO of Greenwich Media Strategy. 557 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: Cigar Shamali. She's the former Treasury spokesperson for Terrorism and 558 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: Financial Intelligence. She's got this great show on YouTube called 559 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: Oh My World. I was talking to you earlier today 560 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: about what your topic is, and it's about protests in Haiti. 561 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: What can you tell us about us? Give us a 562 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: little preview. Yeah, I cover a bunch of things today. 563 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: One of them is that are the protests in Haiti? 564 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: Um Kevin is you know one of my frustrations is 565 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: lack of of coverage of these types of events, especially 566 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: where there's such a close you know, where us, what 567 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: we stay in United States really matter, and so there 568 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: are these protests in the Haiti against the president there, 569 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: who's wildly corrupt and whom has been unable to pull 570 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: his country out of out of poverty. There's six there 571 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: live in poverty where crime is growing. Um, he's kind 572 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,479 Speaker 1: of robbing the nation. So there are these these thousands 573 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: of protests, and the issue there is that, UM, if 574 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: we don't really speak up, the problem is that we 575 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: may pay a very heavy price tag later because you 576 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: could risk a refugee crisis here, right, You've got this 577 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: is an island that's eight miles off the coast of Florida. 578 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,919 Speaker 1: So um, you could have Haitians come here, you could 579 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: have some migration that's illegal, um, and you could um, 580 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: and we may end up being paying to fix it later. 581 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: And so it's one of the things I argued in 582 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: my show this week that this is something that matters 583 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: that that we have to heavily focus on. You know, 584 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 1: there's so much news happening beyond just Ted Cruz going 585 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: to Cancoon folks, and and people like Lenn and Hagar 586 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: really do a great job of keeping me informed to 587 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: be honest about geopolitical affairs. Len, I want to come 588 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: back to something that happened out of Tehran this week, 589 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: where you had UH, Secretary of State Tony B. Lincoln 590 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: and President Biden UH saying that they would be open 591 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: to engaging with Iran on the issue of UH direct 592 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: nuclear disarmament talks to Ron rebuffed the offer, And you 593 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: know Ram is in your portfolio, and I'm just curious 594 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 1: for your analysis on the developments coming out of Iran, 595 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: especially given President bidens for marks today at the Munich 596 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: Security Conference. I think, unfortunately, I think it's a it's 597 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 1: a huge mistake, and the went the way the Biden 598 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:32,240 Speaker 1: administration has approached the Iran um the Iran UH file 599 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: is is really really um not utilizing all the leverage 600 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: that's been amassed over the last four years with with 601 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 1: our maximum pressure campaign. I know that they UH they 602 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: vehemently disagree with the Trump administration leaving the Iran deal. 603 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: But the reason we left the Iran Deal is because 604 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,879 Speaker 1: it was a terrible deal. It did not make sense 605 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: for American national security nor for the security of our 606 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: allies in the region. And one of the things that 607 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: both President Biden and Secretary b Lincoln have talked about 608 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: is making sure that they're in constant communication with our 609 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: allies such as Israel, Saudi's and Amadis and Brainis because 610 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: they're they're really in the crossfire of the Iranian regime. 611 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,359 Speaker 1: And so it's it's one thing to make decisions about 612 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,959 Speaker 1: the Iran deal uh in Europe. It's another thing to 613 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: speak to our allies on the ground who have the 614 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,240 Speaker 1: most to lose. And I would I would also add 615 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: that not just our allies on the ground outside of Iran, 616 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 1: but the Iranian people themselves. They are the regime's longest 617 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 1: suffering victims. You know, I actually had had a good 618 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: call with a lot of dissidents today, Iranian dissidents, um. 619 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: And something your audience would would be interested to hear 620 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: is that, uh, maybe a week ago or so, a 621 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: group of thirty eight Iranian dissidents wrote an open letter 622 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 1: to President Biden. And these are these are not Iranian 623 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:03,280 Speaker 1: diaspora members. These are Iranians in Iran who put their 624 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: freedom and perhaps even their lives in danger by signing 625 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: this letter. And you be you know, you may be 626 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 1: surprised that the thing that they asked President Biden to 627 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: do with respect to Iran policy is to stay with 628 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: the Trump policy, stay with maximum pressure because they know 629 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: that the regime and power only understands um uh, you know, pressure, 630 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,439 Speaker 1: and the only way they respond is when their backs 631 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: are against the wall and they have no choice. What 632 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: the what the Biden administration has ended up doing is 633 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: up front, giving up leverage, giving up concessions with with 634 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: nothing in return just for the uh, you know, optics 635 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: of of of resuming quote unquote diployacy with and you know, 636 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: with with with with with with a with a with 637 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: a interlocular that's not really interested in going beyond Uh 638 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: the j C p o A that was so trouble, Rick, 639 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: I wanted before. I just want to jump in here 640 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: quickly though, because I think it's fascinating just covering Trump 641 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: and how Democrats criticized Trump for engaging with Kim Jong 642 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: un of North Korea, and now you almost have a 643 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: reversal of sorts in terms of how Republicans are criticizing 644 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: the Biden administration for offering to talk to Tehran. And 645 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: I find it fascinating, Rick Davis, Uh, that Secretary Blincoln 646 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 1: is saying, Okay, we're willing to engage, but the sanctions 647 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 1: are still going to stay on. So it's it's really 648 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: interesting to be able to listen to people like Hagar 649 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: and Lend who work intricately on these issues, really dive 650 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: into the details. Rick, Yeah, and I want to stay 651 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 1: on that, because I think Kevin, you're exactly right when 652 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: you look at this in a lens of where have 653 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: we made progress? Um? Arguably I agree with the sanctions 654 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: regime in Iran, but you haven't actually slowed the nuclear 655 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: program down substantially, and you didn't do it during the 656 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: treaty period either, So what's really gonna work? I mean, 657 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: we have a moment I think, hug are you mentioned 658 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: you know how people matter and what's going on in Haiti, 659 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: and I totally agree with you. When the when the 660 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 1: United States speaks, it should speak volumes to the people 661 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,240 Speaker 1: in these countries. And you have elections coming up this 662 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: summer in Iran, and during the Biden or the Obama administration, 663 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: you actually had protests in the streets of Tehran asking 664 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: for support from the United States and we didn't really 665 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: give it much. But what should we do leading up 666 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,879 Speaker 1: to these Do we have a moment in time where 667 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: the sanctions have had an impact and with the potential 668 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: for a new uh Tree regime, can we help the 669 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,800 Speaker 1: people of Iran? So you know you're you're you're talking 670 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: to a lover of sanctions. Myself, I worked at the 671 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 1: Treasure Department for nine years on this on these issues 672 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 1: and UM. And I was a big believer that that sanctions, 673 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: I mean, sanctions are what brought Iran to its needs 674 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 1: um the first time around. And I think that the 675 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 1: Biden administration needs to, you know, they need to know 676 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: that we hold all the cards here and that they 677 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: shouldn't be too quick to bend two Iran's demands, right, 678 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,720 Speaker 1: I mean, so now they put up this formal formal 679 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: um request or saying that they can formally that they 680 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: would uh pursue negotiations, and the Iranians have said, well, 681 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,439 Speaker 1: you have to lift sanctions. And I think the United 682 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,800 Speaker 1: States needs to hold this ground because it's it's precisely 683 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: those sanctions that uh that give the pain, that that 684 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,879 Speaker 1: allow us to be in a position of power when negotiating. 685 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 1: And you know that the lesson you learned, you were right. 686 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: We did not speak out during those protests you're talking 687 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 1: about the protest of the Green Revolution in Iran. I 688 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: think that was two thousand nine, and that was a mistake. 689 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:37,880 Speaker 1: And I remember when I was at the White House 690 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: during the Arab Spring, and one of the lessons we 691 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: learned during the Arab Spring, and it's not to say 692 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: that that the Arab spring was handled perfectly at all, 693 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,280 Speaker 1: but um, one of the lessons learned was you can't 694 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 1: you have to speak up use the United States, we 695 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 1: have a really have a responsibility for that, UM, and 696 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,280 Speaker 1: what we say and who our presidents are and how 697 00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: how our foreign policy is pursued matters very heavily. Right 698 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: not to exist. I don't want to digress too much. 699 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: I know you don't have a lot of time, but 700 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,800 Speaker 1: very quickly, the crown Prince in Saudi Arabia has changed 701 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: his behavior entirely in the last few weeks. Well maybe 702 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: entirely because he's afraid, he's afraid of what Biden is 703 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: going to come at him with. Right that that that 704 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,439 Speaker 1: applies to Iran is well here and and all these 705 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: countries where I wish we have more time, I really do. 706 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: And I hate to cut you guys off, but please 707 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: come back on. This has been a really fascinating, fascinating 708 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,919 Speaker 1: geopolitical conversation with her Garshamali as well as Lenkodarkowski, two 709 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: folks who served in different administrations but are true public servants. 710 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: Please both of you come back on, and I'm very 711 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: appreciative of your time. February is Black History Month, and 712 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio is celebrating pivotal moments in US Black history 713 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: each day. Here with today's in Stallman is Bloomberg's for 714 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,839 Speaker 1: needing young on this day in Black History. In two 715 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: thousand two, Vanetta Flowers becomes the first black woman to 716 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: win a gold medal in the Winter Olympic Games. She 717 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: and her partner Jill Bracken won the inaugural women's two 718 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 1: person Bob's lad event, which was the first medal for 719 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 1: a US bob sled team in forty six years. But 720 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: bob sledding was only one of the sports Flowers mastered. 721 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: She participated at track and field, volleyball, and basketball in 722 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,440 Speaker 1: high school, and she accepted a track and field scholarship 723 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: to the University of Alabama at Birmingham, becoming one of 724 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: the university's most decorated athletes. Flowers track and field background 725 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: was a huge advantage in bob slid, and she quickly 726 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 1: became the number one break woman in the United States. 727 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,879 Speaker 1: So in May of twenty eleven, Flowers was inducted into 728 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 1: the Alabama Sports Hall of Fame. That's today in Black History. 729 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,359 Speaker 1: I'm really need a young Bloomberg Radio. And that does 730 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 1: it for Rostrick Davis, Boomer politics contributor. I'm Kevin's Earlie, 731 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: Chief Washington correspondent and Monday chairman Mark Warner