Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.
Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and
Speaker 1: today we're gonna be talking about Bond Side. Now, Rob,
Speaker 1: I hope you don't mind if I share a bit
Speaker 1: of trivia about you with the listeners. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you've ever made clear on this show before, but
Speaker 1: you are a very caring plant keeper. You've for a
Speaker 1: long time at work had a wonderful little flower on
Speaker 1: your desk, and often, like if you're out of town,
Speaker 1: you would ask me to drop an ice cube on it,
Speaker 1: which I think I always remembered to do whenever you
Speaker 1: asked me. Um. But but yeah, I appreciate the care
Speaker 1: and tenderness you show for the plant kingdom. Well, Um,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, Joe. I guess you could also say
Speaker 1: I just I managed not to kill an orchid, uh
Speaker 1: that that I was charged with. Um, it was my
Speaker 1: my father in law's orchid. And yeah, I say so.
Speaker 1: I lived on my desk get work there and it
Speaker 1: would have an ice cube every now and then to
Speaker 1: keep it hydrated. And I would ask you or sometimes
Speaker 1: the uh Scott who's sat next to me to to
Speaker 1: do it. Um, and uh, yeah, I managed not to
Speaker 1: kill it. And there is something kind of satisfying about
Speaker 1: having this kind of like long term relationship with a plant.
Speaker 1: This this nurturing, you know, even if it's very slight
Speaker 1: nurturing and not like a you know, not a real
Speaker 1: high maintenance plant. Um. You know, it seems like a
Speaker 1: pretty sturdy species that I had grown there. Uh and
Speaker 1: now it's growing in my bathroom, um, since I'm not
Speaker 1: in the office anymore. But yeah, it's it is very,
Speaker 1: very satisfying to to be involved in a in a
Speaker 1: nurturing relationship with a plant like that, just as it
Speaker 1: is so frustrating and and potentially depressing to have the
Speaker 1: opposite relationship relationship with the plant. You know, I think
Speaker 1: we've all had that as well, where like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I cannot keep this thing alive, this plant just wants
Speaker 1: to die or I am just horrible at it. Now.
Speaker 1: One thing you may not have considered, and I apologize
Speaker 1: if this is an overly intimate thought, but whenever you
Speaker 1: have a plant growing in a bathroom, and we have
Speaker 1: plants growing in our bathrooms, you have to assume that
Speaker 1: they are making their cells as they continue to photosynthesize
Speaker 1: from the lights over the sinc they are making their
Speaker 1: cells out of some percentage of carbon that comes out
Speaker 1: of your like toilet emissions and so forth, probably, right,
Speaker 1: I guess. So, I mean that's I mean, that's I
Speaker 1: guess it's good. Right, You're you're exposing them to to
Speaker 1: more of the natural world even though they're an indoor plant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I never thought about that before. Um well, I mean,
Speaker 1: so if it's mainly carbon dioxide, I assume it's probably
Speaker 1: more what you're breathing out, but I don't know. Farts
Speaker 1: probably have some CO two content, right, I guess. But
Speaker 1: then again, if it's if it's farts the plants want,
Speaker 1: then they really want a fully packed office environment again, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean there's I can't possibly offer it
Speaker 1: the the you know, the kind of hum it was
Speaker 1: probably accustomed to. Well, so I'm excited to talk about
Speaker 1: Bond said today. I have never myself taking care of
Speaker 1: a bonsai tree. I have, uh, I have tried to.
Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know if this was this would count.
Speaker 1: I have tried to take care of a sort of
Speaker 1: potted tree of sorts. I don't know if would actually
Speaker 1: count as bonsai, but I failed. I just I killed it.
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm partially envious of of the dedicated
Speaker 1: and regular care that you always showed to your orchid. Well,
Speaker 1: I would say that, you know, well, whatever however you
Speaker 1: classify that care, bonds I is certainly on it on
Speaker 1: an entirely different level. It is up on the top
Speaker 1: of the mountain. We're talking about the pinnacle of of
Speaker 1: caring for a plant, and uh, yeah, this is this
Speaker 1: is one. This is an episode I've wanted to do
Speaker 1: for a while. I think my experience with bonds I
Speaker 1: have never owned a bonds Ie or cared for a
Speaker 1: bonds Ie, but my experience with him with him is
Speaker 1: probably similar to a lot of people's out there. My
Speaker 1: first exposure was almost certainly watching the Karate Kid as
Speaker 1: a child, uh, and seeing that, oh, Mr Miyagi has
Speaker 1: has bonsai plants. Those are neat uh. And then maybe
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe they popped up on a reading
Speaker 1: rainbow or something at some point I don't recall. But
Speaker 1: then much much later, uh, I you know, I was
Speaker 1: I was traveling and I was visiting, but believe one
Speaker 1: place in San Francisco, in another place in San Diego
Speaker 1: where I got to see a multitude of bonsai plants
Speaker 1: with you know, identification information as well as age. And
Speaker 1: it was just really amazing to behold these things, these
Speaker 1: these ancient trees that that you feel should be gigantic,
Speaker 1: but they are in miniature and they are alive, and
Speaker 1: they are just meticulously cared for and crafted. Uh. And yeah,
Speaker 1: there's this there's this kind of magical aura to them
Speaker 1: and this and this age, this kind of condensed age,
Speaker 1: you know. Um, so they're they're really special to just behold.
Speaker 1: And then when you read a little bit about caring
Speaker 1: for them, yeah, it also uh that just adds to
Speaker 1: your level of appreciation when you read about the culture
Speaker 1: involved in it. And uh and so yeah, I wanted
Speaker 1: to do an episode on this for a while, and
Speaker 1: then I've kind of forgotten about it. I think we
Speaker 1: pitched it as part of a deal with a UM,
Speaker 1: a Japanese automobile company that we're gonna advertise with us,
Speaker 1: and and then that didn't happen. I forgot about it.
Speaker 1: But then I ended up watching Cobra Kai on Netflix,
Speaker 1: which also has the bonsai trees in it, and uh
Speaker 1: and I was reminded, Oh, yeah, we we should do
Speaker 1: a bonsai episode. Got bonds I bouncing around in the brain. Okay,
Speaker 1: so maybe you can answer a question that I'm sure
Speaker 1: a lot of people are wondering. What is it? What
Speaker 1: makes the strict definition of a bonsai tree? What makes
Speaker 1: a bonsai tree different than any potted plant? Well, um,
Speaker 1: based on my understanding of it, I would say that
Speaker 1: the big thing to do is you sort of have
Speaker 1: to back up and think about it not just as
Speaker 1: caring for a tree and growing for a tree and
Speaker 1: nurturing a tree, but it's also just it's also steeped
Speaker 1: in just like the basics of art and design, you know,
Speaker 1: because arn't in design, you know, very often sit around
Speaker 1: the manipulation of the natural world or natural resources to
Speaker 1: some form that is esthetically pleasing and perhaps even philosophical
Speaker 1: or theologically engaging as well. You know, we take stone
Speaker 1: and we craft into the likeness of a human or
Speaker 1: some sort of humanoid figure of myth or legend. Trees
Speaker 1: are cut down in hun and then the raw material
Speaker 1: is carved into all manner of forms and functions. But
Speaker 1: as for the control of living plants that brings us,
Speaker 1: of course to agriculture and cultivation. Um and and human
Speaker 1: works are pretty grand in this realm as well. I mean,
Speaker 1: you look at what we we have done for generations
Speaker 1: and generations with agriculture and cultivation. But the Bond Japanese
Speaker 1: Bonds Eye tree, it is the pinnacle of plant cultivation.
Speaker 1: Uh And and I think that Brad Dunning described this
Speaker 1: exceptionally well for the New York Times back in two
Speaker 1: thousand two. Uh they wrote, quote, but it's more than
Speaker 1: just an issue of control, simple for it simply for
Speaker 1: the sake of control. As nature spins wildly downward, there
Speaker 1: is an example of man controlling, conquering, nurturing, and respecting
Speaker 1: nature on an extremely uh reverential level. By constantly thwarting
Speaker 1: the growth of new saplings, the bonsai gardener, through pinching, cutting,
Speaker 1: and splitting new growth, forces the tree's branches to strain
Speaker 1: in any direction to succeed. With additional help from restraining wires,
Speaker 1: the tree is manipulated into prematurely aged shape over time,
Speaker 1: sometimes a lot of time. Prize specimens can be several
Speaker 1: hundred years old, so bonsai is not just a potted plant.
Speaker 1: But it's a tree that's grown in a confined environment
Speaker 1: with this spirit of artistic shaping. Yes, yeah, and uh
Speaker 1: and and along and you know, certain traditional like you
Speaker 1: get into like what kind of pot is used, etcetera.
Speaker 1: And then of also know what species is used. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, as as is often the case with with
Speaker 1: this particularly you know Japanese artistry, there are a lot
Speaker 1: of very particular details in the cultivation. And you know
Speaker 1: it comes down to things like what are their traditional
Speaker 1: shears that one should use, what are the best shears? Uh,
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Um. Another thing that's interesting about
Speaker 1: bonsai trees to me, and I think this comes through
Speaker 1: through all this pruning and shaping and everything, is that, um,
Speaker 1: a bonsai tree does not just look like a sapling
Speaker 1: or like a young tree. There is a particular style
Speaker 1: of miniaturization that comes about through the long sustained care
Speaker 1: of this this small plant, which is that it is
Speaker 1: a tiny version of a tree that looks like a
Speaker 1: shrunken adult version of the same tree rather than just
Speaker 1: a sapling or young growth. Does that make sense? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and exactly that they're like this ancient dwarf and uh
Speaker 1: and it and it a lot of the reasons that
Speaker 1: this is attractive to us, I feel like they almost
Speaker 1: deny or that they defy rather um, you know, easy explanation.
Speaker 1: You know, there's something obviously about the world at large
Speaker 1: made small that we're always fascinated. And you know we
Speaker 1: love miniatures, be it, you know, miniature miniature soldiers, miniature tanks,
Speaker 1: miniature cities, maps, etcetera. Uh. And in fact, one of
Speaker 1: the the the origin stories for the Bonsai trees that
Speaker 1: will touch on has to do with that, like the
Speaker 1: idea of like make make the world at large small
Speaker 1: enough for me to behold it. Uh. But then also
Speaker 1: there is something too about like the ancient made small
Speaker 1: like it it reminds me of so many myths of
Speaker 1: like tiny little old men, you know, that have some
Speaker 1: sort of magical powers, you know, little folks. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: there's something of the of the fairy world, you know
Speaker 1: in that that you know, non culturally distinct manner to
Speaker 1: the Bonds eye tree. Now. Um, there are of course
Speaker 1: true bonds eyes created in accordance with the Japanese tradition. Uh.
Speaker 1: And there are various tears that follow that fall below
Speaker 1: the standard, with one of the most notorious being the
Speaker 1: sort of bonds Ie that sometimes is sold at malls,
Speaker 1: grocery stores, and street fairs. And these, according to Stephen
Speaker 1: Or in New York Times, Garden Q and a Into
Speaker 1: thousand nine are a curse upon the name of bonds I. Uh.
Speaker 1: These are typically young rooted juniper tree cuttings in a
Speaker 1: decorative pot. Uh. So not true bonds eyes will get
Speaker 1: into what true bonds I really consists of in a bit,
Speaker 1: but people will buy these. They think they have a
Speaker 1: bond's eye. It looks neat, they bring it home, and
Speaker 1: then they're devastated when it dies in a few months.
Speaker 1: So not a not an ancient dwarf tree or something
Speaker 1: that will become an ancient dwarf tree, but just a
Speaker 1: short lived trick. And this made me think of Cobra
Speaker 1: Kai actually because in the TV show, um Ralph Maccio's character, uh,
Speaker 1: you know from the first film is now a car
Speaker 1: dealer and he has a car dealership and part of
Speaker 1: his whole gimmick in the show is when you buy
Speaker 1: a car, you also get this little bonds I plant
Speaker 1: that he prepares, and I guess it's supposed to you know,
Speaker 1: he's he's very meticulous character and he's all into the tradition.
Speaker 1: So I guess it's supposed to be the case that
Speaker 1: these are legitimate Bonsai trees that he's handing out to customers.
Speaker 1: But it makes me wonder. I mean, yeah, I sell
Speaker 1: nice cars, but I wonder it does the cynical side
Speaker 1: of me um leaning into sort of these sort of
Speaker 1: the cynical notes to that character in that show is like,
Speaker 1: I wonder if these are just the cheap roadside bonds
Speaker 1: eyes that he's handing out. You know, that would be
Speaker 1: very car dealery. But you can always blame user error, right,
Speaker 1: You can always just say, like, must not have taken
Speaker 1: care of it, right, Yeah, better bring it back into
Speaker 1: the shop. Well, apply that undercoating the true coat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're gonna want that true code on your bond's eye. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's a fun show. Um well yeah, let's well, let's
Speaker 1: keep going talking about bonds eyes. Then, So, at the
Speaker 1: heart of the bonds I practice is just pure artistic
Speaker 1: manipulation of a tree's growth. Trees, as you've probably noticed,
Speaker 1: everyone grow in accordance to their genes, but also in
Speaker 1: accordance to their surroundings. So this means the dictates of
Speaker 1: water soil, and sun, various other limiting factors in their
Speaker 1: immediate surroundings as well, such as other trees, human structures,
Speaker 1: power lines. Uh. You know, as I think we all
Speaker 1: can attest to, you can you can see some pretty
Speaker 1: wonky trees out in the world, out in the forest
Speaker 1: in urban environments, you know, where they do the best
Speaker 1: they can with the with the constraints that are there.
Speaker 1: Um And indeed they can produce natural examples of what
Speaker 1: you can at least roughly classify as a bonsai tree.
Speaker 1: For instance, if you were to travel down to a
Speaker 1: place called Tate's Hell and uh, Tate's Hell State Forest
Speaker 1: near Tallahassee, Florida, and I have to say I have
Speaker 1: driven through it. I can't say I've actually visited, but
Speaker 1: I did drive through it. Uh. There there is a
Speaker 1: forest apparently of miniature cypress trees hundreds of years old,
Speaker 1: covering acres and none more than fifteen feet tall, which, granted,
Speaker 1: that's far bigger than what you might think of as
Speaker 1: a bonsai tree a true bonsai tree, um. But bear
Speaker 1: in mind that cypress trees of this variety and age
Speaker 1: can reach heights of a hundred and fifty feet yes
Speaker 1: old cypress trees can can be towering, and so there
Speaker 1: are special conditions at work that keep this ancient forest
Speaker 1: as short as it is. I was reading that most
Speaker 1: of these trees are between um like six and fifteen
Speaker 1: feet at maturity. I think a lot of them around
Speaker 1: ten feet or so. Uh, and that it's very strange looking.
Speaker 1: I found one picture that's like an aerial shot of
Speaker 1: this dwarf cypress forest that is surrounded by many other trees.
Speaker 1: I think the story goes that at some point there
Speaker 1: was a company that was harvesting a lot of the
Speaker 1: trees from the area. I think maybe for logging or
Speaker 1: maybe to clear land for something, but um. But when
Speaker 1: they reached the dwarf cypress forest, they realized that that
Speaker 1: they that this was something unusual and worth preserving. So
Speaker 1: they they stopped a lot of their their shaping of
Speaker 1: the land at the edge of this thing. And it
Speaker 1: did end up getting preserved when the state bought it
Speaker 1: and turned it into a state forest. But a sidebar
Speaker 1: on Tate's Hell, because I had to know what was
Speaker 1: up with that name, and I looked into it, and
Speaker 1: I actually was rewarded with some very excellent Florida swamp
Speaker 1: ump lore, alright, let's have it. Well. So I was
Speaker 1: reading about it in this book called Florida Lore by
Speaker 1: Karen Schnuir Neil, published in and she points out, first
Speaker 1: of all, there is a song by the old Florida
Speaker 1: folk singer Will McLean about tates Hell and it it
Speaker 1: tells the same story as the legend that I'm about
Speaker 1: to explain. But it's also one of those old style
Speaker 1: folk songs that starts with the section that is not singing,
Speaker 1: but it's kind of rapping. I don't know exactly what
Speaker 1: you call it, like fast rhythmic rhyming talking before the
Speaker 1: tune kicks in, where he says, like, listen, good people
Speaker 1: to a story I'll tell of a great swamp in
Speaker 1: Florida place called Tate's Hell. Yeah. Yeah, it's sort of
Speaker 1: like the pre folk song ramble. Sometimes I guess it rhymes,
Speaker 1: oftentimes it does not. But you hear it from from
Speaker 1: a number of practitioners of the craft. I know Phil
Speaker 1: Elks would do it a lot. You know, he's kind
Speaker 1: of working out. He's like, all right, I listening this tune,
Speaker 1: and I got a little and sometimes it's even like
Speaker 1: a bit it's almost like a little comedy bit and
Speaker 1: I guess I guess yeah, yeah, and I guess that's
Speaker 1: what Uh. Oh, what's their name? Is kind of leaned
Speaker 1: into this a lot and their act. Uh the famous
Speaker 1: folk comedy duo. Oh, I can't think of their names offhand. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know who one of them is, Bob,
Speaker 1: one of them has a beard, soft spoken Garfunkel and notes, no,
Speaker 1: it's not Garfunkle notes that I think they probably have
Speaker 1: like more of a modern version of this, and it's
Speaker 1: it's not the Flight of the Concords. Those are the
Speaker 1: two folk comedy duos I know. These are the one
Speaker 1: They were on TV all the time. Um oh, man
Speaker 1: um Smothers Brothers, the Smothers Brothers. I don't know why
Speaker 1: I was, I was trying to that. Yeah. Well, Will
Speaker 1: McClean tells us that Tate's Hell is a place where
Speaker 1: the bull gators beller and the panthers squall. Now this
Speaker 1: is a place that should be shunned by all, and
Speaker 1: so the legend goes like this, But this is the
Speaker 1: version that I was reading in the book by Um
Speaker 1: by Neil, not by nothing Will McLean's song, though they're similar,
Speaker 1: the legend goes that in the year eighteen seventy five,
Speaker 1: there was a homesteader named CB Tate who had staked
Speaker 1: a claim for a ranch in the Panhandle of Florida,
Speaker 1: and that's where Tate's hell is. It's up in the Panhandle.
Speaker 1: It's uh, I think it's near Wacola Springs, isn't it um? Perhaps?
Speaker 1: I mean, certainly, I've been to Wacola or Waccla. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure exactly what the preferred pronunciation there is. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been there, but I guess I don't remember how
Speaker 1: I even came through tate Stale. It was just we
Speaker 1: were on the way to somewhere else and we had
Speaker 1: to pass through it. Well, it's near a place that
Speaker 1: is now called Sumatra, Florida. It's an unincorporated community about
Speaker 1: thirty miles from the city of Carabelle. And the context
Speaker 1: for this is that there was the Homestead Act of
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty two, which meant that settlers could get a
Speaker 1: grant of supposedly free land from the government if they
Speaker 1: would agree to stay there and develop it for five years.
Speaker 1: And CB Tate is one of these homesteaders. So he's
Speaker 1: got a he's got a ranch or a farm that
Speaker 1: he's trying to run, and one morning he discovers that
Speaker 1: a panther has mauled several of his cows. So he
Speaker 1: sets off in the forest with his hunting dogs and
Speaker 1: the implements of death, as Will McLean says, an old
Speaker 1: long tom shotgun and a sharp barlow knife. That panther
Speaker 1: would sure have the chase of his life, and so
Speaker 1: Tates dogs. They get the scent on the panther and
Speaker 1: they take off after it, but Tate himself falls behind
Speaker 1: and he gets separated from his hunting dogs. Unfortunately, as
Speaker 1: we've discussed in the podcast last October, when there is
Speaker 1: no visible landmark to navigate by, it's surprisingly easy to
Speaker 1: get lost in the woods, and that appears to be
Speaker 1: what happens here. He's wandering in the swampy forest and
Speaker 1: he gets lost, and at some point he gets bitten
Speaker 1: by a snake and he loses his gun, and to
Speaker 1: read from Karen schnurneil here quote, for seven days and
Speaker 1: nights he roamed the ancient trees in ominous swampland, more
Speaker 1: often than not, dazed with hunger and heat, forced to
Speaker 1: live on nothing but roots and muddy water. To make
Speaker 1: matters worse, the mosquitoes swarmed around him until every inch
Speaker 1: of his body was bitten. That's worse than the snake
Speaker 1: bite to me. Yeah. Uh. And the story says that
Speaker 1: over the course of the week that he was lost,
Speaker 1: his hair turned white. But then after seven days, just
Speaker 1: when he was convinced he was going to die, Tate
Speaker 1: ran into a couple of a couple of hunters from
Speaker 1: Carabelle and they asked him who are you and where
Speaker 1: do you come from? And he says, my name is
Speaker 1: CB Tate and I come from Hell. Probably not exactly true,
Speaker 1: but it is a good story. But anyway, if the
Speaker 1: story were true, it's possible that many of the cypress
Speaker 1: trees that are still no more than ten or fifteen
Speaker 1: feet tall today in the cypress forest of Tate's Hell
Speaker 1: would have been there to watch CB Tate get snake bit,
Speaker 1: you know, a middle of the bull gator bellers. Because again,
Speaker 1: a lot of these these trees are are quite old there,
Speaker 1: you know, hundreds of years old, even though they're still
Speaker 1: so small. And I was reading a post about the
Speaker 1: dwarf cypress forest on the blog of a local conservation
Speaker 1: organization called the Appalachicola River Keeper and the author of
Speaker 1: this blog post writes that quote, these dwarf pond cypress
Speaker 1: trees may have become stunted due to a hard layer
Speaker 1: of clay that prevents roots from growing deeper, similar to
Speaker 1: planting a tree in a bond said pot. So that's
Speaker 1: one possibility. Another they go on. Also, the soil is
Speaker 1: low and nutrients, as evidenced by the carnivorous plants in
Speaker 1: the area. You can also find dwarf cypress trees near
Speaker 1: the picture plant bogs north of Sumatra, so there may
Speaker 1: be some correlation. Now, remember we've discussed carnivorous plants on
Speaker 1: the show before. The reason that carnivorous plants eat insects,
Speaker 1: or at least most carnivorous plants, I would assume all Uh,
Speaker 1: the reason they eat insects is not the same as
Speaker 1: the main reason that we would eat plants or animals.
Speaker 1: You know, we need to eat things to get you know,
Speaker 1: protein and energy. Plants photosynthesized sunlight to get the energy
Speaker 1: they need to live. So carnivorous plants eat for specific
Speaker 1: nutrients that are lacking in barren and often swamp soil.
Speaker 1: What other plants would get from the soil around them.
Speaker 1: Carnivorous plants get from insects, and in human terms, when
Speaker 1: plants eat an insect there, it's not like devouring a
Speaker 1: loaf of bread. It's like they're taking their vitamins. So,
Speaker 1: according to this source, at least that same type of
Speaker 1: nutrient poor soil could be one thing preventing the cypress
Speaker 1: trees from growing taller. Or it could be a hard
Speaker 1: layer of sediment that blocks root growth, which in turn
Speaker 1: shapes the body of the tree as a whole, which
Speaker 1: is very much what happens when you plant a tree
Speaker 1: in a pot. And this also ties into something else
Speaker 1: interesting that I was reading that that I guess I'll
Speaker 1: come back to in a few minutes. But yeah, so
Speaker 1: bonsai trees are there. Their growth is constrained by several factors,
Speaker 1: but one of the main ones being the pot that
Speaker 1: they're confined to helps shape the not just where the
Speaker 1: roots go, but the the overall shape of the tree
Speaker 1: as a whole. That's interry. Yeah, that, and that ties
Speaker 1: directly into what we're talking out with the with the
Speaker 1: Bond's eye. Um. Now, I will say that as far
Speaker 1: as Tate's helle goes, I do remember how I wound
Speaker 1: up there. I was midway upon the journey of our life,
Speaker 1: and I found myself within a forest dart uh for
Speaker 1: the far straightforward pathway had been lost. Uh oh and
Speaker 1: what and you ran into three beasts, one of which
Speaker 1: was a panther yep, yep. Maybe another was a bull
Speaker 1: gator yep. And then Virgil jumped out and there was
Speaker 1: a big action scene. He defeated them, and then we Yeah,
Speaker 1: then we went into Tate's hell, a floridian Virgil though
Speaker 1: poppy Satan Lepi. Yeah alright, so yeah, back back to
Speaker 1: bonds eyes here, bonds eye proper. So yeah. Indeed, some
Speaker 1: of the models for Bonsai trees are actually trees found
Speaker 1: growing in the natural environment, uh, particularly growing over water
Speaker 1: or on the sides of mountains, you know, in the
Speaker 1: rocky crags, you know, forced by their inform environment into
Speaker 1: dwarf forms like we're talking about here. So again, the
Speaker 1: bonds Ie treatment is trying to do is doing what
Speaker 1: nature does in constraining the growth of a tree, but
Speaker 1: then taking it to the next level, you know, involving
Speaker 1: just absolute artistic manipulation of the form. Bonds I means
Speaker 1: roughly tree in a pot in Japanese. Specifically, we're talking
Speaker 1: about plants grown in shallow containers and via the exact
Speaker 1: tenets of bonsai pruning and training. So it's it's worth
Speaker 1: stressing that a bondsay, is not genetically a dwarfed plant,
Speaker 1: nor is it kept small through some sort of regiment
Speaker 1: of torture or anything like that. No, it's these physical
Speaker 1: constraints we've been talking about, which as shown in one
Speaker 1: possible explanation of the dwarf cypress in in the swamp.
Speaker 1: There that that can happen in nature, But it happens,
Speaker 1: like you're saying, on cliff faces and other times, when
Speaker 1: the physical forces around a plant shape its growth. Though,
Speaker 1: I do want to say, while bonsai trees are not
Speaker 1: not generally genetically dwarfed plants, the subject of actual nettic
Speaker 1: dwarf plant strains actually has a massive impact on the
Speaker 1: recent history of the world. This is something that is
Speaker 1: a fact that's actually little appreciated by many people considering
Speaker 1: how consequential it has been in the world, and something
Speaker 1: that goes beyond the art and esthetics of plant keeping.
Speaker 1: Dwarf plants and what are sometimes known as semi dwarf
Speaker 1: plants have played a shockingly powerful role in the economics
Speaker 1: and practicalities of food crops over the last I guess
Speaker 1: like sixty seventy years, so uh dwarf for semi dwarf
Speaker 1: strains of crop plants like wheat and rice especially have
Speaker 1: very much changed the world. And if you want to
Speaker 1: learn more about this, you can look up the Green Revolution. Basically,
Speaker 1: this refers to a suite of new technologies and techniques
Speaker 1: and agriculture, especially new dwarf strains of staple crops like
Speaker 1: wheat and rice that we're developed and deployed throughout the
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties and sixties, and of course new agricultural techniques
Speaker 1: and transgener plants and things like that. We have lots
Speaker 1: of modern critics, but all of those criticisms considered, it
Speaker 1: is widely acknowledged that the green Revolution played an unprecedented
Speaker 1: role in decreasing world hunger and has probably saved at
Speaker 1: least a billion human lives. Now, you might immediately wonder why,
Speaker 1: like why would physically smaller strains of crop plants like
Speaker 1: wheat and rice actually make a difference. How could they?
Speaker 1: How could smaller plants help save millions or billions? Of lives. Well,
Speaker 1: one paper I was looking at in the journal Plant
Speaker 1: Physiology had a good short summary of this in its
Speaker 1: background section. This was by Annie A. Elias at All.
Speaker 1: It was published in twelve and so they note that
Speaker 1: semi dwarf is um in plants results in a few things,
Speaker 1: one of the which is decreased lodging. Lodging is a
Speaker 1: term in agriculture where tall crop plants like wheat stalks
Speaker 1: can bend over at the base. You've probably actually seen
Speaker 1: this before in wheat fields, where they just sort of
Speaker 1: like fold over into the ground, making the grain difficult
Speaker 1: to harve ist and the shorter stalks do this far less,
Speaker 1: but there's also just an increased yield of grain and
Speaker 1: improved harvest index. The harvest index is the percent of
Speaker 1: the above ground biomass represented by the harvestable part of
Speaker 1: the plant. In other words, like what percentage of the
Speaker 1: part of the plant that's above ground is actually grain
Speaker 1: and not just you know, unusable stalk or husk. But
Speaker 1: in addition to these enormously consequential changes in strains of
Speaker 1: cereal crops, the authors point out that semi dwarf is
Speaker 1: um has big benefits in fruit tree production. So you know,
Speaker 1: tree trees that produce fruits like apples or peaches can
Speaker 1: have semi dwarf varieties that are that are very useful
Speaker 1: to farmers. In certain cases, they might bear fruit earlier
Speaker 1: in the season, have higher yields of fruit. Um be
Speaker 1: easier to harvest because the fruit is just like closer
Speaker 1: to the grounds, so it's easier to pick um. But
Speaker 1: of course, semi dwarf species play a big role in
Speaker 1: pure aesthetics. To quote, semi dwarf would species are also
Speaker 1: extensively used in ornamental horticulture, where they allow more compact
Speaker 1: forms to be fit into small areas around homes and
Speaker 1: on streets to reduce the need for pruning to avoid
Speaker 1: interference with structures and transmission lines. I've never considered that before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean you do hear about your problems with with
Speaker 1: roots interfering with structures and plumbing and so forth. Makes sense.
Speaker 1: I am intimately familiar with that, as is anybody else
Speaker 1: out there who has ever had to replace a sewer
Speaker 1: line that was being penetrated by the roots of an
Speaker 1: ornamental plant. It's real, folks, The anguish is profound when
Speaker 1: when your toilets won't flush. But anyway, this paper in particular,
Speaker 1: that was just stuff that it talks about in its
Speaker 1: background section. The actual point of this paper is making
Speaker 1: the case for using semi dwarf strains of trees in forestry. Uh.
Speaker 1: The author's right quote. Although against the current orthodoxy of
Speaker 1: forest tree breeding where height growth is emphasized, so you know,
Speaker 1: usually you want trees to be tall, they say that
Speaker 1: semi dwarf is um might also have benefits for wood
Speaker 1: and biomass production. Such trees could be useful if they
Speaker 1: were less prone to wind throw due to their shorter,
Speaker 1: stockier forms, and expected greater allocation to roots. Reduced stature
Speaker 1: could also result in less bending and slanting of trunks
Speaker 1: in the face of wind and gravity on hill slopes,
Speaker 1: and thus reduced the extent of reaction would formation, which
Speaker 1: degrades the performance and value of solid wood and pulp products.
Speaker 1: Reduced height and increased allocation of growth to roots might
Speaker 1: enhance stress tolerance, soil nutrient uptake, bioremediation, and carbon sequestration. UM.
Speaker 1: So again, this was published in twelve. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: how their argument about the use of dwarf strains in
Speaker 1: forestry holds up. Since then. But it's a really interesting
Speaker 1: idea to appreciate how much of a difference in the
Speaker 1: world has just been made by not just new agricultural
Speaker 1: techniques and irrigation and things like, but just the introduction
Speaker 1: of smaller plants. It's literally changed human civilization, uh and elsewhere.
Speaker 1: Just as one note, I read about some dwarf crops
Speaker 1: strains potentially being developed for use in space flight, which
Speaker 1: I thought was pretty funny. You can see, so it's interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember getting into this. I don't know they were,
Speaker 1: well you would classify as a dwarf plant. But I
Speaker 1: remember in our episode about tomatoes, we touched on tomato
Speaker 1: varieties that have been developed potentially for use in a
Speaker 1: low gravity environment. Yeah. Yeah, so it could be similar
Speaker 1: things here. I imagine, not trees for forestry, but you know,
Speaker 1: food bearing plants I would assume. But but to bring
Speaker 1: things back to bons I again, as you emphasized earlier
Speaker 1: with Bonsai, were generally talking about trees that are tiny
Speaker 1: by way of nurture, not nature. Right there, These are
Speaker 1: not genetically dwarf strains. There are, there are constraints imposed
Speaker 1: upon them by their their human cultivators, uh, that keep
Speaker 1: them in this tiny shape. And one thing that's really
Speaker 1: interesting about plants is that it's striking how much nurture
Speaker 1: can look like nature when it comes to the plant kingdom.
Speaker 1: And this brings me to one last thing I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about briefly. It was a really interesting essay
Speaker 1: I was reading. Uh published an Eon magazine. It was
Speaker 1: called Rooted from October twenty nineteen, and it's about the
Speaker 1: concept of how trees embody history, that that time is
Speaker 1: really shown through a tree. And UH it was written
Speaker 1: by Dahlia Nasser, who is a lecturer and philosophy at
Speaker 1: the University of Sydney, and by Margaret M. Barber, who
Speaker 1: is a professor of plant physiology at the at the
Speaker 1: University of Sydney. And so I just want to read
Speaker 1: a quote from their their article here. While all living
Speaker 1: beings carry their past with them into their present and
Speaker 1: future selves, trees embody their history in a way that
Speaker 1: is far more explicit and with greater detail and visibility
Speaker 1: than any other being. The history of any particular tree
Speaker 1: is not hidden in an interior part, nor is it
Speaker 1: found in only one of its parts. As such, trees
Speaker 1: call attention to the historicity of life, demanding that we
Speaker 1: think of life not as static and machine like, but
Speaker 1: as a dynamic context sensitive and plastic trees are not
Speaker 1: only embodied recorders of their history, but also shape shifters
Speaker 1: whose structure transforms in relation to their environment. Put simply,
Speaker 1: trees express their context in their physical form. Trees of
Speaker 1: the same species can look significantly different depending on their
Speaker 1: growth environment, and even within an individual tree, the leaves
Speaker 1: at the shady bottom of the canopy are anatomically different,
Speaker 1: meaning larger and thinner from those at the top smaller
Speaker 1: and thicker. When densely planted, trees grow long, straight trunks
Speaker 1: and small canopies, but when planted in a grass field
Speaker 1: that grow shorter stems and broad crowns. The crown of
Speaker 1: a solitary oak spreads out in all directions, eventually achieving
Speaker 1: a dome shape, while an oak growing in a forest
Speaker 1: develops a small crown and its growth is patterned on
Speaker 1: the growth of surrounding trees. Or think of a bond
Speaker 1: saide tree in contrast to its full size sibling. Trees
Speaker 1: are so adaptive to their surroundings that a human equivalent
Speaker 1: to tree plasticity would be certain people growing large webbed
Speaker 1: feet like diving flippers simply because they swim a lot.
Speaker 1: And they go on to point out other examples of
Speaker 1: this that, uh this actually would tie back into the
Speaker 1: dwarf cypress example from Tate's Hell that the soil quality,
Speaker 1: for example, can shape a tree. And uh so all
Speaker 1: these different features of the natural environment come through in
Speaker 1: the shape and form and physiology of a tree that
Speaker 1: could start genetically identical but end up looking so far
Speaker 1: apart they would be unrecognizable. Well, I really love that
Speaker 1: the idea of the especially the way time is wound
Speaker 1: up in a tree, because that does seem to be
Speaker 1: a huge part of of Bonsai tree tradition. Because these
Speaker 1: are things that that very often outlive the individual who
Speaker 1: is caring for them. You know. It's it's a thing
Speaker 1: that has to be passed on. It is that they're
Speaker 1: sometimes described as being like children, you know. Um. And
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this, especially when I watched a
Speaker 1: Great Big Story video about Bonsai shares. Great Big Story
Speaker 1: is sadly defunct now, but they before they went out,
Speaker 1: they made a whole bunch of videos about various various
Speaker 1: cultural things and practices, and a number of these relate
Speaker 1: to Japanese cultural um things and topics. But there's one
Speaker 1: titled making thirty five thousand dollar Bonsai scissors that I
Speaker 1: recommend checking out, and it's about this, uh, this guy
Speaker 1: who is the the Saska brand of of Bonsaie scissors,
Speaker 1: which I think are the only additional bondsaie scissors uh
Speaker 1: that are still created in um in Japan. And you
Speaker 1: can look them up. Look look this uh this guy
Speaker 1: up online. It's it's like s a s u k
Speaker 1: e um Bonsai shears or look up the video and
Speaker 1: it's it's really insightful. But in this particular video you
Speaker 1: have this this older Japanese man talking about the crafting
Speaker 1: of the scissors and how long it takes, you know,
Speaker 1: like you'll get in, someone will put in a request.
Speaker 1: You'll be like, okay, I need I need a half
Speaker 1: a year or so to uh to figure out what
Speaker 1: kind of shears to make for you, you know, and
Speaker 1: then he's making it for somebody who is a Bond's
Speaker 1: eye practition or somebody who's deeply immersed in the culture.
Speaker 1: And you get the sense of human being sort of
Speaker 1: living to a certain extent too as to as to
Speaker 1: whatever extent is possible for a human being to live
Speaker 1: on the time scale of the trees they care for,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, and it's really really kind of beautiful
Speaker 1: and does get into, I guess, the the meditative aspects
Speaker 1: all of bonsai tree care. I like the idea that
Speaker 1: a lot of these sasuke shears they've kind of, like,
Speaker 1: at least the ones I was looking at online, often
Speaker 1: have like these long roping kind of handles instead of
Speaker 1: just the normal functional sort of like grippy handles of
Speaker 1: garden shears you'd buy it lows. Yeah, and the long
Speaker 1: looping handles actually make it look like it's kind of
Speaker 1: made out of plant growth, you know, it's like the
Speaker 1: their roots in your fingers. Yeah. Yeah, they're very they're
Speaker 1: beautiful to behold. Uh. You have these big looping handles,
Speaker 1: and and of course part of it too, I'm to understand,
Speaker 1: is that you want very precise, very sharp shears because
Speaker 1: the cleaner cut that you get, the healthier it is
Speaker 1: for the organism. Oh yeah, that makes sense. You want
Speaker 1: to you wanna like sheer very cleanly instead of crushing, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so that's one of the reasons you tend to
Speaker 1: see if not cheers like this, then at least some
Speaker 1: other fancy variety of shears. You know, you're not just
Speaker 1: getting in there with your old rusty garden pruners and
Speaker 1: chopping away. You know, you want something very precise. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then also I think it's one of those situations
Speaker 1: where the tools are part of the practice, you know. Um.
Speaker 1: But as far as the organism goes, various tree species
Speaker 1: can be bonds eye trees. But there are essentially two
Speaker 1: broad categories here, um, indoor and outdoor. Though uh this
Speaker 1: was in the writing of of Or, who did that
Speaker 1: piece for New York Times which I mentioned earlier, I
Speaker 1: will point out that I have seen other people sort
Speaker 1: of shy away from the idea of indoor bonds I,
Speaker 1: and it seemed to imply that true bonds I are
Speaker 1: are all outdoor bonds I. So I'm not sure where
Speaker 1: to land on that. But Or at any rate says okay.
Speaker 1: First of all, you have outdoor bonds I that do
Speaker 1: best in temperate regions, featuring species such as pine cedar, ginko,
Speaker 1: Japanese maple horn beam, and juniper. And they often require
Speaker 1: a cool, dormant period like a you know, winter period,
Speaker 1: and species like the juniper will require overwintering, often in
Speaker 1: a greenhouse or a sunroom. And then if you're dealing
Speaker 1: with indoor bonds I. According to Or, these are typically
Speaker 1: tropical and subtropical plant play such as uh Ficus, U
Speaker 1: meing via Um potocarpus, and dwarf jade. And Or writes
Speaker 1: that these require something similar to normal indoor houseplant care,
Speaker 1: but they also require you know, of course all the
Speaker 1: various aspects of BONDSAI, uh pruning, etcetera. But also they
Speaker 1: require more watering due to those shallow pots. Well, so
Speaker 1: we've discussed how the shallow pots can help shell shape
Speaker 1: the body of the tree. But obviously another major feature
Speaker 1: is what comes in with the pruning itself. So like,
Speaker 1: what is the process of this ongoing care? Okay, so
Speaker 1: some of these will be obvious to folks who engage
Speaker 1: in any level of like treat care and outdoor stuff,
Speaker 1: but but other stuff is more specific to bonds. Eye. So,
Speaker 1: first of all, trimming is the removal of outer branch tips,
Speaker 1: while pruning is the specific removal of individual branches, stems,
Speaker 1: or even parts of the trunk. On top of that,
Speaker 1: you have things like wiring and clamping, and this is
Speaker 1: a way to physically guide the growth and shape of
Speaker 1: the tree via physical constraints. On top of this, grafting
Speaker 1: is also used. Um as are that you can also
Speaker 1: do a certain amount of defoliation, you know, the removal
Speaker 1: of of leaves and then deadwood bonds eye techniques involved
Speaker 1: the creation, shaping, and preservation of dead wood on a
Speaker 1: living bond's eye tree to enhance this sense of age.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I I so, I've seen bonsai trees like this,
Speaker 1: I think. And there's a very particular aesthetic that is
Speaker 1: that actually exists in the natural world, not just in
Speaker 1: in human horticulture that that is mimicking that I find
Speaker 1: very beautiful. I think a lot of other people do too,
Speaker 1: and I wonder why exactly it is. But it's the uh,
Speaker 1: it's the aesthetic you see in the natural growth of
Speaker 1: bristle cone pine trees, where they often have the appearance
Speaker 1: of a live tree growing on or within this ancient warped,
Speaker 1: twirling piece of dead wood. Do you know what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about? Y? Yeah, I think I know what you're
Speaker 1: talking about. Can picture in my head? Yeah, there is
Speaker 1: something just intrinsically attractive about it. I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: it doesn't apply to um animals, like the idea of
Speaker 1: like a human coming up dressed in bones generally not
Speaker 1: as attractive. But uh, but but this is this is
Speaker 1: Bristol cone pines, by the way. Are they're particularly known,
Speaker 1: I think for for achieving tremendous ages, Like they get
Speaker 1: really really old. There are some of the oldest living organisms,
Speaker 1: and they really do look like it because again, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can see like um, there will be parts of
Speaker 1: a tree that are producing foliage, so there's still green,
Speaker 1: they're still growing, you know, they're still producing new growth seasonally,
Speaker 1: I guess. But down below that it will just be
Speaker 1: what looks like a ten million year old skeleton that's
Speaker 1: got these like lollipop twirls of color in it or
Speaker 1: like a sorry, like a peppermint twist type of color,
Speaker 1: and the branches or these snaking witch fingers without any leaves. Uh.
Speaker 1: It's very very cool. So if you're not familiar with
Speaker 1: bristle cone pines, look them up. Now. Another thing I
Speaker 1: want to drive home about the bonds eyes again, the
Speaker 1: the upkeep and care of a bonds I are are
Speaker 1: in their their own way, like a delicate art form.
Speaker 1: I was reading a piece in the New York Times
Speaker 1: by Makiko in a way and Daniel Victor. Um. Apparently
Speaker 1: New York Times is just prime reporting uh source for
Speaker 1: Bonsai Uh. But they were This was an article about
Speaker 1: a story that was making the rounds at the time
Speaker 1: in UM. This was bonds I are like our children,
Speaker 1: couple pleads for return of stolen trees. Uh. And this
Speaker 1: one had to do with a four drild bonds E
Speaker 1: that had been stolen that was worth an estimated ninety dollars.
Speaker 1: The theft was again covered by a number of different
Speaker 1: news sources at the time Bonds I can fetch a
Speaker 1: hefty price on the black market. Sadly, I didn't run
Speaker 1: across any reporting about this tree being recovered. I mean
Speaker 1: maybe it did, and they just didn't make a snazzy
Speaker 1: new story for most sources. UM. But one of the
Speaker 1: things that they pointed out is that like if you
Speaker 1: were to steal hat and um high value bonds I
Speaker 1: treat like this. Yeah, if you didn't know how to
Speaker 1: care for it, uh, if you didn't know the particular
Speaker 1: things you needed to do, it could die within a week,
Speaker 1: you know. So there's a there's a delicacy to these UM.
Speaker 1: These organisms as well, but I'm also interested in the
Speaker 1: statement of these people saying that the bonds are like
Speaker 1: our children, because it I mean, you can totally see
Speaker 1: how that would be the case, that it's not just
Speaker 1: like somebody stole any other high value item within a home.
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, an expensive painting or something.
Speaker 1: It is in some ways like a child. I mean
Speaker 1: obviously nothing, you know, and it doesn't have a brain
Speaker 1: or anything, but it does require care. Well, I like
Speaker 1: the idea of comparing it to something like a painting,
Speaker 1: because yeah, painting certainly requires a certain amount of care
Speaker 1: and any key an occasional occasionally restoration. But there is
Speaker 1: and but there is I guess when it comes to
Speaker 1: like the bonds eye tree and the painting, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's probably a tipping point with the painting if it's
Speaker 1: degraded and it's not cared for, you know, a point
Speaker 1: past which it cannot be brought back in a meaningful way.
Speaker 1: But with a Bond's eye tree, like, there's definitely that point,
Speaker 1: you know, like there's no there's no gray area, there's
Speaker 1: a point where the tree is no longer alive and
Speaker 1: will not live again. And um, yeah, and it's Ultimately,
Speaker 1: it is a living thing. It is a It is
Speaker 1: a thing that is cared for, that is nurtured, and
Speaker 1: you see it growing and you know that you have
Speaker 1: a role in its growth. Well, I wonder how did
Speaker 1: all this get started? Like who first had the idea
Speaker 1: to grow tiny versions of adult shaped trees in pots? Yeah?
Speaker 1: That the history is pretty fascinating. So in a broader
Speaker 1: sense and really broad sense, we can just say, Okay,
Speaker 1: what how far back to ornamental gardens go? And it
Speaker 1: seems like they date back at least as far as
Speaker 1: b C. In ancient Egypt because we see them depicted
Speaker 1: in tomb paintings from that period. Uh. There are also
Speaker 1: some interesting connections to Babylonian and air Vedic traditions. Uh.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's probably one of those things that's
Speaker 1: ultimately lost in history because it basically comes down to
Speaker 1: all right, people people messing around with plants and people
Speaker 1: creating ceramics. Uh. And I guess not just ceramics, but
Speaker 1: also like you know, I guess you could make a
Speaker 1: wooden pot as well, obviously, but people messing around with materials,
Speaker 1: messing around with plants, and getting to the point where
Speaker 1: they realize, oh, I can, I can put this in
Speaker 1: a pot, I can take it with me. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: instead of just depending say on dried herbs, maybe I
Speaker 1: might try and bring this plant with me as I
Speaker 1: travel somewhere else, bring it alive and uh and do
Speaker 1: something you know with it when I get there. I
Speaker 1: would not be surprised if that was tied into ancient
Speaker 1: beliefs about herbal medicine. Yeah, good point, And I think
Speaker 1: I think maybe that's where some of the air Vedic
Speaker 1: traditions also come into play. But the immediate predecessor to
Speaker 1: the bondsai practice in Japan, it takes us to China
Speaker 1: around the year one thousand CE. I've also seen a
Speaker 1: date of seven hundred c e uh. So there may
Speaker 1: be some disagreement about, you know, when exactly we're looking
Speaker 1: at here, but uh, for instance, I was looking at
Speaker 1: a source on this by Jack doth It often recognized
Speaker 1: as a Western authority on Bonsai practices. He has a
Speaker 1: book titled Bonsai The Art of Living Sculpture, and he
Speaker 1: dates the beginnings of bonsa i uh to the Han
Speaker 1: dynasty over two thousand years ago, or not the beginning
Speaker 1: of bonsai, but the beginning of this predecessor um he wrote.
Speaker 1: He writes the following in Bond the Bonsai Survival Manual. Quote.
Speaker 1: Legend has it that at one point an ancient Chinese
Speaker 1: emperor commissioned the construction in his courtyard of vast miniature landscapes,
Speaker 1: complete with mountains, lakes, and of course miniature trees. These
Speaker 1: landscapes were designed to represent all the parts of his empire,
Speaker 1: so in this way he could stand on his balcony
Speaker 1: and survey his entire domain. WHOA and again that I
Speaker 1: like that story because it gets back to what we're
Speaker 1: talking about, like the the irresistible allure of the world
Speaker 1: at large, naid miniature. I absolutely see that, and you
Speaker 1: know it comes through in plenty of other ways too.
Speaker 1: I think, uh, this is actually a primary motivator. I
Speaker 1: think for a lot of people who have model train hobbies.
Speaker 1: Not everyone, but I think a lot of people who
Speaker 1: are into model trains. It's not even so much about
Speaker 1: the train. I mean, that's part of it, but it's
Speaker 1: about it's about a a driving excuse to create these
Speaker 1: miniature landscapes. Because the miniature landscapes are so appealing for
Speaker 1: some reason. I mean, I I love them. I love
Speaker 1: dioramas and um, I love like a good museum that
Speaker 1: has carefully painted dioramas. I know you paint miniatures, so
Speaker 1: you have this appreciation. Sometimes I wonder if if some
Speaker 1: of the people who are into like the model train
Speaker 1: thing or like or like miniature diorama recreations of historic
Speaker 1: battle scenes or whatever like that, are are it's basically
Speaker 1: the same impulse that dry ives. Uh, you know, people
Speaker 1: who would do D and D or tabletop minatures. But
Speaker 1: for people who don't like magic and wizards. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it's absolutely the case. Yeah. I mean you see
Speaker 1: it in war gaming because there's a lot of that
Speaker 1: that same energy that goes into the creating the environments
Speaker 1: in trains. You see it in creating environments to have
Speaker 1: your little battles on. You see it in the Lego
Speaker 1: pastime among both children and adult fans of Legos, where
Speaker 1: they'll create whole little worlds. And that's that's part of it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And and indeed diorama creation can just be so in crowd.
Speaker 1: I love a great diorama at a at a museum.
Speaker 1: The the met has some of the bat I think
Speaker 1: it's the met is it the mat that has some
Speaker 1: really good ones at any rate. I know, I've seen
Speaker 1: some great dioramas in in New York. But anyway, this
Speaker 1: particular Chinese predecessor to the Bond's I this is was
Speaker 1: the art of punsai. Uh. These were luxury items of
Speaker 1: the day, and around roughly eleven CE, Buddhist monks brought
Speaker 1: the tradition to Japan, and is often the case, as
Speaker 1: is off the case in Japanese culture. They took an
Speaker 1: outside art form, they refined it, and they made it
Speaker 1: their own. As doth It points out, the main drivers
Speaker 1: here were the Japanese people's love of nature, uh, but
Speaker 1: also increasingly in increasing artistic awareness, and this coupled with
Speaker 1: the minimalist teachings of Zen Buddhism. So all of this
Speaker 1: gets reflected uh in it uh and so so yeah,
Speaker 1: as part of the Zen Buddhism movement of the time,
Speaker 1: it takes root in Japanese culture and becomes you know,
Speaker 1: not only this this sort of you know, meditative pastime
Speaker 1: that is associated again with Zin Buddhism, but also it
Speaker 1: becomes the ultimate pastime of the upper classes. Like it
Speaker 1: is this the uh, you know, this is a luxury
Speaker 1: item to have and to care for. And to just
Speaker 1: keep as a symbol of of who you are and
Speaker 1: where you are in society. According to Robert J. Baron,
Speaker 1: writing for Bonzai Empire dot com, quote finding beauty and
Speaker 1: severe ear austerity. Zen monks with less land forms as
Speaker 1: a model developed their trade landscapes along certain lines, so
Speaker 1: that a single tree in a pot could represent the universe.
Speaker 1: So a connection here again is made between the tree
Speaker 1: and miniature, and not just the world at large, but
Speaker 1: the universe at what led large. You know, not just
Speaker 1: the world as a physical thing, but also the world
Speaker 1: as as far as our you know, perceptions of self
Speaker 1: and reality and the soul are concerned. Um. A connection
Speaker 1: is also frequently made between the traditions of caring for
Speaker 1: the plant and meditation. And during the mid nineteenth century,
Speaker 1: as Japan began to make contact with the outside world
Speaker 1: again in major ways, the bonds ie tradition began to
Speaker 1: spread as well. And so yeah, now you can find
Speaker 1: bonds i literally all over the world. That's interesting to see,
Speaker 1: especially for certain kinds of meditation. You know, the kind
Speaker 1: of meditation that are focused on the control of attention,
Speaker 1: for example, you know mindfulness types of meditation. What they
Speaker 1: have in common it seems to me is that there
Speaker 1: is is this never ending balance between sort of the
Speaker 1: the natural growing chaos of life, which is sort of
Speaker 1: like you're wandering attention as a as a meditator, or
Speaker 1: the growth of a plant in a pot versus like
Speaker 1: all of these sort of like methods of shaping. You know,
Speaker 1: you could kind of think of meditation in one way
Speaker 1: as a as a shaping of the attention that naturally
Speaker 1: wants to grow in one way or another, but you're
Speaker 1: just sort of like pruning it down and and making
Speaker 1: it harmonious. Yeah, I can't help but to compare it,
Speaker 1: first of all, to creating, say like a model tank.
Speaker 1: You know, you put a lot of care into creating
Speaker 1: that tank, but then once it's done, you can basically
Speaker 1: put it on a shelf. Yeah, you might have to
Speaker 1: dust it off from time to time, maybe you'll go
Speaker 1: back and tweak something on it, but it's essentially complete. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then I think of of say having a you know,
Speaker 1: an actual child, you know, like that that is a
Speaker 1: case where you you're continually help helping this child to grow,
Speaker 1: but but in a way that eventually that child is
Speaker 1: going to leave you. That child is going to go
Speaker 1: on and have this, this larger life and is no
Speaker 1: longer going to be a part of your household. The
Speaker 1: bonds Eye tree is uh, he is always going to
Speaker 1: be there, you know, unless of course you you you know,
Speaker 1: you you give it to somebody else, pass into the
Speaker 1: care of another, or or of course ultimately have to
Speaker 1: make plans for it to continue living after you have died.
Speaker 1: But you were, you were keeping it in this constrained,
Speaker 1: a dwarf environment. You know, like you wouldn't want to
Speaker 1: have you wouldn't want to have a Bonds Eye child,
Speaker 1: you know that that would be that would be monstrous.
Speaker 1: But the Bonsai tree different matter. I don't know. Some
Speaker 1: people do sort of prune and wire their children. Well,
Speaker 1: you do want to wire your children. You want to,
Speaker 1: you want to to to to manipulate their development as
Speaker 1: much as possible towards um you know, the positive models
Speaker 1: of being. But then you know eventually you want to,
Speaker 1: you know, let him out of the greenhouse. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's not a perfect metaphor for rearing a child, but
Speaker 1: at any rate, I I do see the so much
Speaker 1: of the Bonds that is about about control, but not
Speaker 1: just control for control's sake, but control for artistic purposes.
Speaker 1: So um, yeah, you wouldn't want to take that approach
Speaker 1: to creating a child or so to growing a child, etcetera.
Speaker 1: But then again also yeah, it doesn't apply. The same
Speaker 1: sort of model doesn't apply to other forms of art
Speaker 1: where you do reach some level of completion. Um if
Speaker 1: I mean even if you were saying, if you were
Speaker 1: to compare it to say, writing, um, an epic poem,
Speaker 1: you know, and perhaps it's an epic poem you work
Speaker 1: on your entire life, and then towards the end of
Speaker 1: your life, uh, you know, you're still tinkering with it.
Speaker 1: Maybe you never get it quite finished. But then does
Speaker 1: that pass on to another person to get finished and
Speaker 1: then onto another Like generally you're only going to see,
Speaker 1: like maybe what a couple of generations of tinkering with
Speaker 1: a particular work of of literature. Well, this is very
Speaker 1: interesting and how it ties into epic poetry in particular,
Speaker 1: because it depends on which epic poem you're talking about.
Speaker 1: So if it's the need, you could just have Virgil
Speaker 1: the author sits down to write the epic poem and
Speaker 1: they you know, Virgil can decide when he's untinkering on
Speaker 1: it mainly. But um, if it is something like the
Speaker 1: Odyssey or the Iliad that grows out of an oral
Speaker 1: tradition in which every telling of the tale was different originally,
Speaker 1: so like the written versions that we have of the
Speaker 1: Iliad and the Odyssey are very is it's extremely unlikely
Speaker 1: that that was in any way a fixed form of
Speaker 1: the poem from antiquity. It's going to be something that
Speaker 1: grow out of an oral storytelling tradition that that had
Speaker 1: infinite different variations and was told by different tellers, and
Speaker 1: at some point some version of it got written down.
Speaker 1: Now that's a great point. Yeah. So and in a way,
Speaker 1: you could compare the Bond's Eye rather favorably to the
Speaker 1: creation of a myth and a legend, you know, because
Speaker 1: you know, beyond the mere epic poem, the Iliot is
Speaker 1: something that is continually retold time and time again. It
Speaker 1: continues to live in different forms. Were perpetually trimming it
Speaker 1: and caring for it, um, letting it grow out a
Speaker 1: bit and maybe braining it back in. And we see
Speaker 1: this with other forms as well. I mean, you could
Speaker 1: even make an argument for something like Our Wars being
Speaker 1: the case, you know, like for a while it was
Speaker 1: George Lucas Bond's Eye and UH, and then in different
Speaker 1: phases it has been passed on to other people to
Speaker 1: care for and if it remains popular, this will continue
Speaker 1: for centuries even now. To come back to just a
Speaker 1: little bit here at the end to to science, I
Speaker 1: do want to point to a scientific paper that I
Speaker 1: came across, and it deals with the science of root pruning.
Speaker 1: So this is pretty neat. I mean, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: get super into the details of the study, but it
Speaker 1: does make some great points just about uh the wondrous
Speaker 1: um qualities of a plant's roots. So, plant roots are
Speaker 1: naturally robust and regenerative since they're a vital they're they're
Speaker 1: vital for water and nutrient absorption. They have to be
Speaker 1: able to bounce back from injury really well, so they
Speaker 1: have impressive plasticity, which also helps them adapt to changing
Speaker 1: environmental circumstances such as drought. And this plasticity is harnessed
Speaker 1: in root pruning UH in Bond's eye as a way
Speaker 1: to control size and vigor and industry. Interestingly enough, there
Speaker 1: was a study from Hokkaido University that looked at the
Speaker 1: molecular mechanism behind root regeneration to figure out exactly what's
Speaker 1: going on, because prior to this there was you know,
Speaker 1: there's definitely some strong theories, but the exact molecular mechanism
Speaker 1: was largely unknown. That study, published in Plant and Sell Physiology,
Speaker 1: identified for the first time that Yuca nine, one of
Speaker 1: the eleven Yucca genes involved in oxen synthesis, plays a
Speaker 1: primary role in roots system regeneration. So, oxen is a
Speaker 1: plant hormone which causes the elongation of cells and shoots
Speaker 1: and is and is involved in regulating plant growth. Now,
Speaker 1: to be clear, this particular study didn't use bonds eye trees,
Speaker 1: but they were part of the title and even the
Speaker 1: cover art for this edition of Plant and Sell Physiology,
Speaker 1: as this beautiful photograph of a bond's I on the cover. Okay,
Speaker 1: so root regeneration is related to this gene that stimulates
Speaker 1: the production of this hormone that causes cells to elongate.
Speaker 1: Um and the elongation of plant cells, by the way,
Speaker 1: is something that's very interesting, uh, And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't appreciate how much that comes in,
Speaker 1: even in things as mundane as cooking. You know, when
Speaker 1: we think about body cells. We think about cells that
Speaker 1: are I don't know, I mean, I don't know what's
Speaker 1: the best way to think of them in a three
Speaker 1: dimensional sense, but in the microscope slide, since you think
Speaker 1: of them is basically like round or kind of like
Speaker 1: a little square, right. Plant cells can be very elongated,
Speaker 1: and this is one reason that if say you're cutting
Speaker 1: an onion, uh, the direction along which you cut the
Speaker 1: onion can make a big difference in how much of
Speaker 1: the compounds that induced tears are released when you're cutting
Speaker 1: the onion. So if you're slicing an onion cross wise, um,
Speaker 1: so you're going you know, you're creating the rings. You
Speaker 1: tend to shear a lot more cells because the cells
Speaker 1: are elongated from pull to pull along the onion. So
Speaker 1: you're cutting more cells open, releasing more of that jew
Speaker 1: it's gonna make you cry more. If you turn the
Speaker 1: onion around and you cut it in the pole to
Speaker 1: pole direction, you're cutting parallel to the elongated cells instead
Speaker 1: of across them. Fewer cells are ruptured, less juice is released,
Speaker 1: and there's less crying. I don't really have a problem
Speaker 1: crying while cutting onions, but I definitely need to watch
Speaker 1: a video on cutting onions because I know I'm doing
Speaker 1: it very incorrectly. I'm very slapdash with my onion cutting,
Speaker 1: and this has been pointed out before. I'll give you
Speaker 1: a trainer someday. Okay, I do a lot of onion cutting.
Speaker 1: I wonder how many onions I've cut up in my life.
Speaker 1: Probably thousands? Yeah? Which which color onion do you think
Speaker 1: you've cut the most off? Oh? I guess regular yellow
Speaker 1: onions probably, yeah, but do them all? I like the
Speaker 1: purple onions, Red onions, Oh yeah, those are those are
Speaker 1: really good for pickling. You'll ever make pickled onions at home? Um?
Speaker 1: We have maybe have made some like fridge pickles or
Speaker 1: sort of like I don't know, bold pickles for recipes.
Speaker 1: I don't know what you call that when you sort
Speaker 1: of you pickle something for an hour or less, not
Speaker 1: like full lacto fermentation. Yeah, just simple like vinegar pickling. Um. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's great. One of the one of the most versatile
Speaker 1: things you can have in your kitchen is just just
Speaker 1: a nice container of pickled onions. And red onions are
Speaker 1: great for that. So you just make like a brine
Speaker 1: solutions like half water, half vinegar, add some salt sugar
Speaker 1: if you want it, and then pour boil that, pour
Speaker 1: it over some sliced red onions and then put that
Speaker 1: on everything. All right, Well, well there you have. And
Speaker 1: I feel like we covered a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of ground in this episode. And obviously we'd love to
Speaker 1: hear from everybody out there about Bonsai trees specifically, but
Speaker 1: also uh dwarf trees in the strange Fluidian wilderness, onion
Speaker 1: cutting uh uh you know, all of it is on
Speaker 1: the table, but yes, specifically, if anybody out there has
Speaker 1: expertise with Bonsai trees or uh you know it has
Speaker 1: more more experience with them, we'd love to hear from you. Uh,
Speaker 1: so please ride in and uh and tell us all
Speaker 1: about it. Um. And I do want to just yeah,
Speaker 1: remind everybody when when it becomes safe to do so.
Speaker 1: I do recommend going out and seeing some Bond's eyes
Speaker 1: in real life, you know if uh again, I saw
Speaker 1: them when I was in I think I saw some
Speaker 1: of the San Diego Zoo, and I saw some in
Speaker 1: San Francisco somewhere, maybe a botanical garden there. But they're
Speaker 1: all over and wherever you live, there's bound to be
Speaker 1: some place that will be offering you a chance to
Speaker 1: view them in the near future. In the meantime, if
Speaker 1: you would like to check out other episodes of Stuff
Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind, you'll find the Stuff to Blow
Speaker 1: your Mind podcast feed wherever you get your podcasts and
Speaker 1: wherever that happens to be. We just asked that you rate, review,
Speaker 1: and subscribe huge things as always to our excellent audio
Speaker 1: producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get
Speaker 1: in touch with us with feedback on this episode or
Speaker 1: any other, to suggest a topic for the future, or
Speaker 1: just to say hi, you can email us at contact
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