WEBVTT - The Bonsai Tree 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.400 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:14.480 Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.680 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:21.640 today we're gonna be talking about Bond Side. Now, Rob, 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:23.480 I hope you don't mind if I share a bit 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.200 of trivia about you with the listeners. I don't know 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:28.560 if you've ever made clear on this show before, but 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:33.120 you are a very caring plant keeper. You've for a 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:37.159 long time at work had a wonderful little flower on 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:39.640 your desk, and often, like if you're out of town, 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.159 you would ask me to drop an ice cube on it, 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:44.400 which I think I always remembered to do whenever you 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:48.920 asked me. Um. But but yeah, I appreciate the care 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.159 and tenderness you show for the plant kingdom. Well, Um, 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:54.720 I appreciate that, Joe. I guess you could also say 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.560 I just I managed not to kill an orchid, uh 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:01.360 that that I was charged with. Um, it was my 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.679 my father in law's orchid. And yeah, I say so. 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:06.480 I lived on my desk get work there and it 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:08.200 would have an ice cube every now and then to 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.679 keep it hydrated. And I would ask you or sometimes 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.800 the uh Scott who's sat next to me to to 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.120 do it. Um, and uh, yeah, I managed not to 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:20.280 kill it. And there is something kind of satisfying about 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.800 having this kind of like long term relationship with a plant. 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.560 This this nurturing, you know, even if it's very slight 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.360 nurturing and not like a you know, not a real 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.760 high maintenance plant. Um. You know, it seems like a 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:35.640 pretty sturdy species that I had grown there. Uh and 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.840 now it's growing in my bathroom, um, since I'm not 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.480 in the office anymore. But yeah, it's it is very, 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.120 very satisfying to to be involved in a in a 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.440 nurturing relationship with a plant like that, just as it 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:51.320 is so frustrating and and potentially depressing to have the 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.200 opposite relationship relationship with the plant. You know, I think 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:56.320 we've all had that as well, where like, oh my gosh, 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.160 I cannot keep this thing alive, this plant just wants 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:02.240 to die or I am just horrible at it. Now. 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:04.960 One thing you may not have considered, and I apologize 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.320 if this is an overly intimate thought, but whenever you 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:09.120 have a plant growing in a bathroom, and we have 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.240 plants growing in our bathrooms, you have to assume that 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.320 they are making their cells as they continue to photosynthesize 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:17.720 from the lights over the sinc they are making their 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.720 cells out of some percentage of carbon that comes out 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:26.440 of your like toilet emissions and so forth, probably, right, 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.520 I guess. So, I mean that's I mean, that's I 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.760 guess it's good. Right, You're you're exposing them to to 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.799 more of the natural world even though they're an indoor plant. Yeah, 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.520 I never thought about that before. Um well, I mean, 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.840 so if it's mainly carbon dioxide, I assume it's probably 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:43.680 more what you're breathing out, but I don't know. Farts 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.880 probably have some CO two content, right, I guess. But 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.240 then again, if it's if it's farts the plants want, 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:53.280 then they really want a fully packed office environment again, right, 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:57.360 I mean, I mean there's I can't possibly offer it 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:00.480 the the you know, the kind of hum it was 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:04.200 probably accustomed to. Well, so I'm excited to talk about 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:07.280 Bond said today. I have never myself taking care of 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.840 a bonsai tree. I have, uh, I have tried to. 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:13.680 I guess, I don't know if this was this would count. 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.440 I have tried to take care of a sort of 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:18.760 potted tree of sorts. I don't know if would actually 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:21.920 count as bonsai, but I failed. I just I killed it. 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:25.559 And that's why I'm partially envious of of the dedicated 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.760 and regular care that you always showed to your orchid. Well, 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:31.800 I would say that, you know, well, whatever however you 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.840 classify that care, bonds I is certainly on it on 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:37.400 an entirely different level. It is up on the top 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:41.320 of the mountain. We're talking about the pinnacle of of 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.160 caring for a plant, and uh, yeah, this is this 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:45.920 is one. This is an episode I've wanted to do 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.240 for a while. I think my experience with bonds I 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:50.920 have never owned a bonds Ie or cared for a 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.280 bonds Ie, but my experience with him with him is 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.280 probably similar to a lot of people's out there. My 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:59.480 first exposure was almost certainly watching the Karate Kid as 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.720 a child, uh, and seeing that, oh, Mr Miyagi has 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.720 has bonsai plants. Those are neat uh. And then maybe 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:07.160 I don't know, maybe they popped up on a reading 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.360 rainbow or something at some point I don't recall. But 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:13.040 then much much later, uh, I you know, I was 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.720 I was traveling and I was visiting, but believe one 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:18.080 place in San Francisco, in another place in San Diego 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:21.680 where I got to see a multitude of bonsai plants 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.760 with you know, identification information as well as age. And 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.320 it was just really amazing to behold these things, these 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.960 these ancient trees that that you feel should be gigantic, 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:35.960 but they are in miniature and they are alive, and 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:40.320 they are just meticulously cared for and crafted. Uh. And yeah, 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:42.920 there's this there's this kind of magical aura to them 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.760 and this and this age, this kind of condensed age, 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:50.000 you know. Um, so they're they're really special to just behold. 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:52.040 And then when you read a little bit about caring 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.960 for them, yeah, it also uh that just adds to 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.200 your level of appreciation when you read about the culture 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.640 involved in it. And uh and so yeah, I wanted 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:01.200 to do an episode on this for a while, and 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:02.719 then I've kind of forgotten about it. I think we 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.440 pitched it as part of a deal with a UM, 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:07.919 a Japanese automobile company that we're gonna advertise with us, 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:10.960 and and then that didn't happen. I forgot about it. 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.520 But then I ended up watching Cobra Kai on Netflix, 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.520 which also has the bonsai trees in it, and uh 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.680 and I was reminded, Oh, yeah, we we should do 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:23.360 a bonsai episode. Got bonds I bouncing around in the brain. Okay, 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.760 so maybe you can answer a question that I'm sure 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.760 a lot of people are wondering. What is it? What 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.000 makes the strict definition of a bonsai tree? What makes 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:37.240 a bonsai tree different than any potted plant? Well, um, 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:39.880 based on my understanding of it, I would say that 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.039 the big thing to do is you sort of have 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.279 to back up and think about it not just as 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.480 caring for a tree and growing for a tree and 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:52.359 nurturing a tree, but it's also just it's also steeped 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.760 in just like the basics of art and design, you know, 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.120 because arn't in design, you know, very often sit around 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.080 the manipulation of the natural world or natural resources to 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:04.480 some form that is esthetically pleasing and perhaps even philosophical 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.760 or theologically engaging as well. You know, we take stone 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.120 and we craft into the likeness of a human or 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.080 some sort of humanoid figure of myth or legend. Trees 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:15.320 are cut down in hun and then the raw material 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:17.960 is carved into all manner of forms and functions. But 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.000 as for the control of living plants that brings us, 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.440 of course to agriculture and cultivation. Um and and human 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:26.640 works are pretty grand in this realm as well. I mean, 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.680 you look at what we we have done for generations 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:33.760 and generations with agriculture and cultivation. But the Bond Japanese 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.200 Bonds Eye tree, it is the pinnacle of plant cultivation. 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:40.640 Uh And and I think that Brad Dunning described this 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.560 exceptionally well for the New York Times back in two 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:47.040 thousand two. Uh they wrote, quote, but it's more than 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.200 just an issue of control, simple for it simply for 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.760 the sake of control. As nature spins wildly downward, there 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:57.440 is an example of man controlling, conquering, nurturing, and respecting 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:03.080 nature on an extremely uh reverential level. By constantly thwarting 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:07.000 the growth of new saplings, the bonsai gardener, through pinching, cutting, 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.560 and splitting new growth, forces the tree's branches to strain 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.800 in any direction to succeed. With additional help from restraining wires, 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:19.480 the tree is manipulated into prematurely aged shape over time, 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:23.280 sometimes a lot of time. Prize specimens can be several 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:27.840 hundred years old, so bonsai is not just a potted plant. 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.960 But it's a tree that's grown in a confined environment 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:35.520 with this spirit of artistic shaping. Yes, yeah, and uh 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.120 and and along and you know, certain traditional like you 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:40.400 get into like what kind of pot is used, etcetera. 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.679 And then of also know what species is used. Uh, 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.240 you know, as as is often the case with with 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:51.440 this particularly you know Japanese artistry, there are a lot 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.400 of very particular details in the cultivation. And you know 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:57.360 it comes down to things like what are their traditional 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.720 shears that one should use, what are the best shears? Uh, 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:04.120 that sort of thing. Um. Another thing that's interesting about 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.040 bonsai trees to me, and I think this comes through 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:11.320 through all this pruning and shaping and everything, is that, um, 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:15.040 a bonsai tree does not just look like a sapling 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:19.480 or like a young tree. There is a particular style 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:23.400 of miniaturization that comes about through the long sustained care 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.520 of this this small plant, which is that it is 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:30.120 a tiny version of a tree that looks like a 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:34.080 shrunken adult version of the same tree rather than just 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:37.160 a sapling or young growth. Does that make sense? Yeah, 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.840 and exactly that they're like this ancient dwarf and uh 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.960 and it and it a lot of the reasons that 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.440 this is attractive to us, I feel like they almost 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:51.280 deny or that they defy rather um, you know, easy explanation. 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:54.760 You know, there's something obviously about the world at large 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.120 made small that we're always fascinated. And you know we 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:02.000 love miniatures, be it, you know, miniature miniature soldiers, miniature tanks, 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.960 miniature cities, maps, etcetera. Uh. And in fact, one of 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.360 the the the origin stories for the Bonsai trees that 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:09.920 will touch on has to do with that, like the 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.320 idea of like make make the world at large small 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.360 enough for me to behold it. Uh. But then also 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:19.320 there is something too about like the ancient made small 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:21.840 like it it reminds me of so many myths of 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.920 like tiny little old men, you know, that have some 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:29.240 sort of magical powers, you know, little folks. Yeah, and 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:31.400 there's something of the of the fairy world, you know 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:36.319 in that that you know, non culturally distinct manner to 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:41.200 the Bonds eye tree. Now. Um, there are of course 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:45.400 true bonds eyes created in accordance with the Japanese tradition. Uh. 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.760 And there are various tears that follow that fall below 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.880 the standard, with one of the most notorious being the 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.760 sort of bonds Ie that sometimes is sold at malls, 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:57.400 grocery stores, and street fairs. And these, according to Stephen 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:59.959 Or in New York Times, Garden Q and a Into 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.760 thousand nine are a curse upon the name of bonds I. Uh. 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.680 These are typically young rooted juniper tree cuttings in a 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.959 decorative pot. Uh. So not true bonds eyes will get 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.240 into what true bonds I really consists of in a bit, 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.440 but people will buy these. They think they have a 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:16.200 bond's eye. It looks neat, they bring it home, and 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.719 then they're devastated when it dies in a few months. 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.680 So not a not an ancient dwarf tree or something 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:23.640 that will become an ancient dwarf tree, but just a 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.680 short lived trick. And this made me think of Cobra 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:31.480 Kai actually because in the TV show, um Ralph Maccio's character, uh, 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.000 you know from the first film is now a car 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.840 dealer and he has a car dealership and part of 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.040 his whole gimmick in the show is when you buy 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.360 a car, you also get this little bonds I plant 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.320 that he prepares, and I guess it's supposed to you know, 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:48.360 he's he's very meticulous character and he's all into the tradition. 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.560 So I guess it's supposed to be the case that 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:53.719 these are legitimate Bonsai trees that he's handing out to customers. 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:59.959 But it makes me wonder. I mean, yeah, I sell 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.480 nice cars, but I wonder it does the cynical side 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.160 of me um leaning into sort of these sort of 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.120 the cynical notes to that character in that show is like, 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.199 I wonder if these are just the cheap roadside bonds 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.000 eyes that he's handing out. You know, that would be 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:16.719 very car dealery. But you can always blame user error, right, 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:18.959 You can always just say, like, must not have taken 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:21.240 care of it, right, Yeah, better bring it back into 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:27.120 the shop. Well, apply that undercoating the true coat. Yeah, 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:32.640 you're gonna want that true code on your bond's eye. Yeah. Uh, 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.600 it's a fun show. Um well yeah, let's well, let's 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.040 keep going talking about bonds eyes. Then, So, at the 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.679 heart of the bonds I practice is just pure artistic 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:45.199 manipulation of a tree's growth. Trees, as you've probably noticed, 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.439 everyone grow in accordance to their genes, but also in 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.880 accordance to their surroundings. So this means the dictates of 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.280 water soil, and sun, various other limiting factors in their 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:59.480 immediate surroundings as well, such as other trees, human structures, 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.880 power lines. Uh. You know, as I think we all 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.520 can attest to, you can you can see some pretty 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.120 wonky trees out in the world, out in the forest 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.760 in urban environments, you know, where they do the best 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.319 they can with the with the constraints that are there. 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:19.280 Um And indeed they can produce natural examples of what 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.720 you can at least roughly classify as a bonsai tree. 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:26.120 For instance, if you were to travel down to a 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:30.560 place called Tate's Hell and uh, Tate's Hell State Forest 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.520 near Tallahassee, Florida, and I have to say I have 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.640 driven through it. I can't say I've actually visited, but 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.040 I did drive through it. Uh. There there is a 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.959 forest apparently of miniature cypress trees hundreds of years old, 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:46.240 covering acres and none more than fifteen feet tall, which, granted, 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.320 that's far bigger than what you might think of as 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:51.560 a bonsai tree a true bonsai tree, um. But bear 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.520 in mind that cypress trees of this variety and age 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:56.960 can reach heights of a hundred and fifty feet yes 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:00.400 old cypress trees can can be towering, and so there 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.520 are special conditions at work that keep this ancient forest 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:06.480 as short as it is. I was reading that most 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.920 of these trees are between um like six and fifteen 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.080 feet at maturity. I think a lot of them around 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.600 ten feet or so. Uh, and that it's very strange looking. 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.280 I found one picture that's like an aerial shot of 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:23.320 this dwarf cypress forest that is surrounded by many other trees. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.440 I think the story goes that at some point there 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.040 was a company that was harvesting a lot of the 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.319 trees from the area. I think maybe for logging or 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.280 maybe to clear land for something, but um. But when 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:36.360 they reached the dwarf cypress forest, they realized that that 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.679 they that this was something unusual and worth preserving. So 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:43.360 they they stopped a lot of their their shaping of 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.000 the land at the edge of this thing. And it 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.240 did end up getting preserved when the state bought it 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.840 and turned it into a state forest. But a sidebar 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.839 on Tate's Hell, because I had to know what was 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.400 up with that name, and I looked into it, and 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:00.000 I actually was rewarded with some very excellent Florida swamp 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.720 ump lore, alright, let's have it. Well. So I was 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.080 reading about it in this book called Florida Lore by 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:12.720 Karen Schnuir Neil, published in and she points out, first 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.360 of all, there is a song by the old Florida 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.880 folk singer Will McLean about tates Hell and it it 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.520 tells the same story as the legend that I'm about 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.200 to explain. But it's also one of those old style 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.680 folk songs that starts with the section that is not singing, 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:30.840 but it's kind of rapping. I don't know exactly what 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:35.000 you call it, like fast rhythmic rhyming talking before the 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.200 tune kicks in, where he says, like, listen, good people 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:40.960 to a story I'll tell of a great swamp in 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.080 Florida place called Tate's Hell. Yeah. Yeah, it's sort of 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.160 like the pre folk song ramble. Sometimes I guess it rhymes, 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.720 oftentimes it does not. But you hear it from from 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.080 a number of practitioners of the craft. I know Phil 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:54.560 Elks would do it a lot. You know, he's kind 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.160 of working out. He's like, all right, I listening this tune, 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:58.080 and I got a little and sometimes it's even like 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:00.200 a bit it's almost like a little comedy bit and 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.480 I guess I guess yeah, yeah, and I guess that's 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.040 what Uh. Oh, what's their name? Is kind of leaned 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.880 into this a lot and their act. Uh the famous 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:14.600 folk comedy duo. Oh, I can't think of their names offhand. Um, 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:16.720 I don't know. I don't know who one of them is, Bob, 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:20.840 one of them has a beard, soft spoken Garfunkel and notes, no, 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.000 it's not Garfunkle notes that I think they probably have 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.840 like more of a modern version of this, and it's 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.280 it's not the Flight of the Concords. Those are the 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.840 two folk comedy duos I know. These are the one 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:35.440 They were on TV all the time. Um oh, man 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.160 um Smothers Brothers, the Smothers Brothers. I don't know why 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.160 I was, I was trying to that. Yeah. Well, Will 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.720 McClean tells us that Tate's Hell is a place where 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.600 the bull gators beller and the panthers squall. Now this 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.160 is a place that should be shunned by all, and 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.760 so the legend goes like this, But this is the 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.280 version that I was reading in the book by Um 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.800 by Neil, not by nothing Will McLean's song, though they're similar, 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.680 the legend goes that in the year eighteen seventy five, 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:07.640 there was a homesteader named CB Tate who had staked 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.240 a claim for a ranch in the Panhandle of Florida, 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:12.520 and that's where Tate's hell is. It's up in the Panhandle. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:17.320 It's uh, I think it's near Wacola Springs, isn't it um? Perhaps? 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.840 I mean, certainly, I've been to Wacola or Waccla. I'm 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.320 not sure exactly what the preferred pronunciation there is. Uh. Yeah, 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.560 I've been there, but I guess I don't remember how 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.360 I even came through tate Stale. It was just we 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.480 were on the way to somewhere else and we had 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:33.600 to pass through it. Well, it's near a place that 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:38.040 is now called Sumatra, Florida. It's an unincorporated community about 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.800 thirty miles from the city of Carabelle. And the context 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.200 for this is that there was the Homestead Act of 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.920 eighteen sixty two, which meant that settlers could get a 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.920 grant of supposedly free land from the government if they 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.480 would agree to stay there and develop it for five years. 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:56.000 And CB Tate is one of these homesteaders. So he's 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.320 got a he's got a ranch or a farm that 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.400 he's trying to run, and one morning he discovers that 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:04.560 a panther has mauled several of his cows. So he 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:06.800 sets off in the forest with his hunting dogs and 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.560 the implements of death, as Will McLean says, an old 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:13.040 long tom shotgun and a sharp barlow knife. That panther 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.439 would sure have the chase of his life, and so 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:18.840 Tates dogs. They get the scent on the panther and 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.119 they take off after it, but Tate himself falls behind 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.640 and he gets separated from his hunting dogs. Unfortunately, as 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:28.480 we've discussed in the podcast last October, when there is 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.200 no visible landmark to navigate by, it's surprisingly easy to 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.159 get lost in the woods, and that appears to be 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.400 what happens here. He's wandering in the swampy forest and 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.879 he gets lost, and at some point he gets bitten 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:44.040 by a snake and he loses his gun, and to 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.560 read from Karen schnurneil here quote, for seven days and 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:51.280 nights he roamed the ancient trees in ominous swampland, more 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.359 often than not, dazed with hunger and heat, forced to 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.200 live on nothing but roots and muddy water. To make 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.960 matters worse, the mosquitoes swarmed around him until every inch 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:04.440 of his body was bitten. That's worse than the snake 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:08.080 bite to me. Yeah. Uh. And the story says that 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.399 over the course of the week that he was lost, 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.679 his hair turned white. But then after seven days, just 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:15.720 when he was convinced he was going to die, Tate 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.160 ran into a couple of a couple of hunters from 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.520 Carabelle and they asked him who are you and where 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:22.280 do you come from? And he says, my name is 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:27.080 CB Tate and I come from Hell. Probably not exactly true, 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:29.560 but it is a good story. But anyway, if the 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:32.919 story were true, it's possible that many of the cypress 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.080 trees that are still no more than ten or fifteen 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.080 feet tall today in the cypress forest of Tate's Hell 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.440 would have been there to watch CB Tate get snake bit, 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.600 you know, a middle of the bull gator bellers. Because again, 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.400 a lot of these these trees are are quite old there, 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:50.800 you know, hundreds of years old, even though they're still 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.240 so small. And I was reading a post about the 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.280 dwarf cypress forest on the blog of a local conservation 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.960 organization called the Appalachicola River Keeper and the author of 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.960 this blog post writes that quote, these dwarf pond cypress 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.600 trees may have become stunted due to a hard layer 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:10.639 of clay that prevents roots from growing deeper, similar to 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:14.080 planting a tree in a bond said pot. So that's 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.760 one possibility. Another they go on. Also, the soil is 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.199 low and nutrients, as evidenced by the carnivorous plants in 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.720 the area. You can also find dwarf cypress trees near 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:28.000 the picture plant bogs north of Sumatra, so there may 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:32.159 be some correlation. Now, remember we've discussed carnivorous plants on 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:36.560 the show before. The reason that carnivorous plants eat insects, 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.360 or at least most carnivorous plants, I would assume all Uh, 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.760 the reason they eat insects is not the same as 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.600 the main reason that we would eat plants or animals. 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:47.760 You know, we need to eat things to get you know, 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:51.960 protein and energy. Plants photosynthesized sunlight to get the energy 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.800 they need to live. So carnivorous plants eat for specific 0:19:55.920 --> 0:20:00.480 nutrients that are lacking in barren and often swamp soil. 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.200 What other plants would get from the soil around them. 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:08.040 Carnivorous plants get from insects, and in human terms, when 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.320 plants eat an insect there, it's not like devouring a 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:14.639 loaf of bread. It's like they're taking their vitamins. So, 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:17.280 according to this source, at least that same type of 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:21.120 nutrient poor soil could be one thing preventing the cypress 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:24.480 trees from growing taller. Or it could be a hard 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.600 layer of sediment that blocks root growth, which in turn 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.120 shapes the body of the tree as a whole, which 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.200 is very much what happens when you plant a tree 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:37.280 in a pot. And this also ties into something else 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:39.200 interesting that I was reading that that I guess I'll 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:41.720 come back to in a few minutes. But yeah, so 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:46.960 bonsai trees are there. Their growth is constrained by several factors, 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.399 but one of the main ones being the pot that 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:53.119 they're confined to helps shape the not just where the 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:56.280 roots go, but the the overall shape of the tree 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:58.640 as a whole. That's interry. Yeah, that, and that ties 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:00.720 directly into what we're talking out with the with the 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.639 Bond's eye. Um. Now, I will say that as far 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.040