WEBVTT - Wall Street Prosecutor Bharara Forced Out by Trump (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>Fret Berrara was the most well known U S attorney

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<v Speaker 1>in the country, often referred to as the Sheriff of

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<v Speaker 1>Wall Street. His aggressive prosecution of insider trading in Wall Street,

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<v Speaker 1>corruption gamed in fame, and his war on political corruption

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<v Speaker 1>kept him there. Along with successful prosecutions of banks, terrorists,

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<v Speaker 1>arm dealers, and more. Berrara clearly enjoyed being in the

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<v Speaker 1>media spotlight, and his press conferences announcing major prosecutions always

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<v Speaker 1>featured at least one memorable sound bite. As the defendants

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<v Speaker 1>in this case have now learned the hard road. They

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<v Speaker 1>may have been pretty a lot of confidential information, but

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<v Speaker 1>there was one secret they did not know, and that

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<v Speaker 1>is that we were listening. The bids were rigged and

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<v Speaker 1>the results were preordained. Companies got rich and the public

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<v Speaker 1>got bamboozled. They will not be riding out into the

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<v Speaker 1>sunset to live in luxury off the spoils of their

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<v Speaker 1>fraudulent scheme. During the transition, President Trump asked Barrara to

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<v Speaker 1>stay on as U S Attorney and meeting at Trump Tower.

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<v Speaker 1>So it came as a surprise when Attorney General Jeff

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<v Speaker 1>Sessions on Friday abruptly asked for the resignations of forty

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<v Speaker 1>six U S Attorneys appointed by President Obama, and Barrara

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<v Speaker 1>was included among them, but Bararra refused to resign and

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<v Speaker 1>then tweeted from a personal account on Saturday that he'd

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<v Speaker 1>been fired. The abrupt change by Trump and new Facts

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<v Speaker 1>caused a controversy that is nowhere near over. Our guests

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<v Speaker 1>are both former federal prosecutors, Robert Mint's a partner Mcarter

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<v Speaker 1>and English, and Carrie Cohen, a partner Morrison Forrester bob

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<v Speaker 1>There is a distinction, though it may seem trivial, between

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<v Speaker 1>resigning at the president's request and forcing the president to fire.

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<v Speaker 1>You explain what the difference is, I'm sure, June Um. Basically,

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<v Speaker 1>all the U S. Attorneys around the country serve at

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<v Speaker 1>the pleasure of the president, and its typical for there

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<v Speaker 1>to be a change in office when there is a

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<v Speaker 1>change in administration. So what has happened in the past

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<v Speaker 1>is that when a new president comes in UM, particularly

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<v Speaker 1>from a different political party, that the existing U S.

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<v Speaker 1>Attorneys are expected to at some point submit their resignations

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<v Speaker 1>so that the new president can make up whatever appointments

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<v Speaker 1>he or she feels is appropriate. Uh. There have been

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<v Speaker 1>some instances where people in the Department of Justice have

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<v Speaker 1>refused to submit their resignations when requested, and that forces

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<v Speaker 1>the Department of Justice to to fire them. That has

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<v Speaker 1>generally happened not when they are trying to hold onto

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<v Speaker 1>their jobs or just fighting with the fact that it's

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<v Speaker 1>time for them to leave, but really a situation where

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<v Speaker 1>they are trying to make a statement of on principle,

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<v Speaker 1>where they believe they're being asked to do something that

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<v Speaker 1>they cannot do for legal or principal reasons, and although

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<v Speaker 1>they know the result will be the same that they

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<v Speaker 1>will lose their job, they believe this is now speaking broadly,

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<v Speaker 1>but in most instas, the individuals believe that if they

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<v Speaker 1>resigned there somehow complicit in enforcing some type of policy

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<v Speaker 1>that they that they disagree with, so they forced the

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<v Speaker 1>Department of Justice the Attorney General to fire them rather

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<v Speaker 1>than submit their resignation willingly carry This situation is a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit unusual in that it was widely publicized that

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<v Speaker 1>President Trump had asked pre Berar to stay on, and

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<v Speaker 1>now you have the Justice Department asked him to resign.

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<v Speaker 1>Him refusing to do so. Is the president's change of

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<v Speaker 1>my apparent change of mind here good enough reason for

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<v Speaker 1>somebody like berrar to say, I just refused to submit

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<v Speaker 1>my resignation. I think this is a unique circumstance where

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<v Speaker 1>pret was specifically asked by this president if he would

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<v Speaker 1>stay on, was asked to tell the media at Trump

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<v Speaker 1>Tower that he was asked to stay on, and then

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<v Speaker 1>you know, abrupt change of course a few months later,

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<v Speaker 1>which gives I think the public a sense what would

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<v Speaker 1>change your mind and intervening months and is worried some

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<v Speaker 1>to the public because of course politics should not play

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<v Speaker 1>any role in the Justice Department and in choosing U

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<v Speaker 1>S attorneys. There's also the point being made that Trump

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<v Speaker 1>place to call to Barrara on Thursday, which Barrara refused

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<v Speaker 1>to take because of ethical guidelines prohibiting the president from

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<v Speaker 1>speaking directly to the U S. Attorneys. Finally, the President

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<v Speaker 1>did not respond as to what that call was about

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<v Speaker 1>when asked by the press, and finally, on Sunday, a

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<v Speaker 1>spokesman for the president said Trump just wanted to thank

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<v Speaker 1>him and wish him luck. But Barrara has indicated in

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<v Speaker 1>a statement to The New York Times that he was

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<v Speaker 1>skeptical of that We're going to be discussing that coming

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<v Speaker 1>up on Bloomberg law, what impact that call had and

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<v Speaker 1>what new suspicions it may have led to. Some members

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<v Speaker 1>of Congress have been speculating about the reason Trump decided

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<v Speaker 1>to fire Barra. We'll hear what the ranking minority member

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<v Speaker 1>on the Oversight and Government Reform Committee had to say

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<v Speaker 1>why he thought at the by Pre Barrara was let

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<v Speaker 1>go by the Trump administration because he was in a

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<v Speaker 1>position to potentially investigate President Donald Trump. And Barrara's dismissal

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<v Speaker 1>also led to Twitter. Twitter a lot of tweets from

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<v Speaker 1>one of the Senators, and she said that Senator Elizabeth

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<v Speaker 1>Warren tweeted that it was about pre having authority over

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<v Speaker 1>Trump Tower. There are all kinds of questions being raised

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<v Speaker 1>about the firing of former Manhattan US Attorney Pre Barrara

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<v Speaker 1>by President Trump on Saturday. A letter from several watched

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<v Speaker 1>organizations sent to Barrara on Wednesday requested the U. S

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<v Speaker 1>Attorney look into whether Trump had violated the Constitution's Emolument's

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<v Speaker 1>clause by benefiting from foreign business deals. The Trump Organization

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<v Speaker 1>has its main offices in New York City, giving Barrara jurisdiction.

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<v Speaker 1>Congressman Elijah Cummings told ABC there could be a connection

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<v Speaker 1>to the firing of Barrara, no doubt about it. When

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<v Speaker 1>they asked about my ments of clause and possible violations

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<v Speaker 1>of it, and and uh the U S Attorney's relationship

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<v Speaker 1>to that. I think that had perhaps something to do

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<v Speaker 1>with it. He wasn't a loan. Senator Elizabeth Warren tweet

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<v Speaker 1>at Donald Trump's personal Twitter account freet Barrara had authority

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<v Speaker 1>over Trump Tower, and you can't fire the rule of law.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't shut down ongoing investigations by career prosecutors. We've

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<v Speaker 1>been talking to two former federal prosecutors, Repert Mints of

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<v Speaker 1>McCarter and English and Carrie Cohen of Morrison Forrester Bob,

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<v Speaker 1>what's your opinion of the of the reaction that this

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<v Speaker 1>was about possible investigations? And Barrara himself said something in

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<v Speaker 1>a tweet about I know what what the Morland Commission

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<v Speaker 1>must have felt like, I can I think at this

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<v Speaker 1>point we don't really know the reason for Mr Berra's

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<v Speaker 1>refusal to submit his resignation, and it's it's really pure

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<v Speaker 1>speculations to suggest that this has anything to do with

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<v Speaker 1>trying to influence or interfere with any ongoing investigation. I

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<v Speaker 1>think further that generally what happens is once the u

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<v Speaker 1>S Attorney steps down on an interim basis, the second

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<v Speaker 1>in command, who is somebody who is intimately he or

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<v Speaker 1>she is intimately involved in running the office, is generally

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<v Speaker 1>a career prosecutor themselves, takes over running the investigation, and

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<v Speaker 1>then on the line prosecutors who are on the ground,

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<v Speaker 1>who are really running the day to day operations of

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<v Speaker 1>these investigations, will go on. So I think it's a

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<v Speaker 1>misperception out in the public that the removal of the

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<v Speaker 1>U S Attorney could in any way influence or is

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<v Speaker 1>likely to influence these investigations. And my experience, these are

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<v Speaker 1>career people who run them, who make the day to

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<v Speaker 1>day decisions. The final call does go to the u

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<v Speaker 1>S Attorney, but in this case it's generally somebody who

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<v Speaker 1>is also very experienced, unlikely a career prosecutor who is

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<v Speaker 1>upping in on an interim basis. Carrie, one of the

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<v Speaker 1>odd things about this was how quickly it seems to

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<v Speaker 1>have happened. I mean, if it's been reported that the

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<v Speaker 1>Attorney General meant with all the U S attorneys last

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<v Speaker 1>week wished them happy hunting shortly but not too long

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<v Speaker 1>before all they were all asked to resign, and that

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<v Speaker 1>after that, President Trump apparently tried to call pre Barra.

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<v Speaker 1>Um Mr Berrara didn't take the phone call because of

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<v Speaker 1>he talked to Main Justice and was told that it

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<v Speaker 1>would violate ethical guidelines as he suspected for him to

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<v Speaker 1>talk directly to the President, and he didn't take the call.

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<v Speaker 1>And the White House is now saying that President Trump

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<v Speaker 1>was simply calling to offer his congratulations on on good

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<v Speaker 1>work done and wish him well. What what is it

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<v Speaker 1>that we should take from all With this sort of

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<v Speaker 1>very quick timeline and then the President trying to call

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<v Speaker 1>pre Barra before this all happens, I'm not sure we

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<v Speaker 1>should take much from any of that at all in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of drawing conclusions. It would all be speculation. But

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<v Speaker 1>to add on too, something we just talked about on

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<v Speaker 1>the show, which is especially true in the Southern District

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<v Speaker 1>of New York, where the career prosecutors follow the facts

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<v Speaker 1>wherever they lead. That is the strong tradition and history

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<v Speaker 1>of that office. So I wouldn't expect sort of going forward,

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<v Speaker 1>anything to change with respect to how they conduct themselves

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<v Speaker 1>in their ongoing investigations or in you know, their ongoing

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<v Speaker 1>cases where they're in court on trial or disappearing in court.

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<v Speaker 1>That will continue. The acting U S Attorney is June Kim,

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<v Speaker 1>he was pre deputy. He's been in the office a

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<v Speaker 1>very long time. I expect him to continue exactly the

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<v Speaker 1>same path as pre so I think for the foreseeable future,

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<v Speaker 1>you're not going to see any change. And in addition,

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<v Speaker 1>that office has a very strong tradition of presidents appointing

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<v Speaker 1>someone to serve as U S Attorney who has served

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<v Speaker 1>previously in the in that office, either as a line

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<v Speaker 1>assistant or as a supervisor. So you know, going forward,

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<v Speaker 1>it's are important to look at who if that tradition continues.

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<v Speaker 1>I would expect the southern districts of New York to continue.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's very long tradition of following the facts without

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<v Speaker 1>fear or favor wherever those facts will lead. Bob Elizabeth

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<v Speaker 1>war and Senator Elizabeth Warren and Patrick Leahy both indicated

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<v Speaker 1>that because of the way this firing was done and

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<v Speaker 1>came out of nowhere, though no one questions that the

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<v Speaker 1>president has the authority to do and other presents have

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<v Speaker 1>done it because it came the way it did. That

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<v Speaker 1>they're going to be a lot tougher on the U

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<v Speaker 1>S Attorneys and questioning them when they come up for confirmation.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that likely to cause problems? No, I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>so at all. I think that's exactly their role. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>The U S Attorney appoint these are are nominated um

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<v Speaker 1>by the President, but they have to be confirmed by

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<v Speaker 1>the Senate, and I think the sentators are intentled to

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<v Speaker 1>ask whatever questions that he or she feels are appropriate

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<v Speaker 1>to ensure that there is the degree of independence that

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<v Speaker 1>has traditionally been the earmark of all the U S.

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<v Speaker 1>Attorney's offices around the country. UM. The practice that of

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<v Speaker 1>removing U S Attorneys has typically been done over time,

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<v Speaker 1>but in other instances, for example, in when President Clinton

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<v Speaker 1>came in, johanet Reno did ask for the immediate resignations

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<v Speaker 1>of all the sitting US Attorneys and that instant as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's happened both ways, and I think the important

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<v Speaker 1>thing is that the independence of the U S. Attorney

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<v Speaker 1>in the Department of Justice be maintained. And I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>that the appointments will be quality appointments, and of the

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<v Speaker 1>Senate will um use their discretion and exercise their authority

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<v Speaker 1>in questioning the appointments. We'll have to leave it at that.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you both for being on Bloomberg Law. That's repert

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<v Speaker 1>Men's a partner McCarter in English, and carry co on

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<v Speaker 1>apartner Morrison Forrester. Coming up on Bloomberg, the Trump administration

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<v Speaker 1>is trying to stop the groundbreaking lawsuit brought by twenty

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<v Speaker 1>one children against the federal govern from an overclimate change.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg