Speaker 1: Hi everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Hello
Speaker 1: whip smarties. Today we are joined by an absolutely brilliant actor, singer,
Speaker 1: and yes author. Today's guest is none other than Chris Colfer.
Speaker 1: I came to absolutely love Chris playing Kurt on the
Speaker 1: critically acclaimed TV show Glee. He won many an award
Speaker 1: for that series, and somehow, while he was managing to
Speaker 1: learn all of that choreography record albums travel the world
Speaker 1: on a global tour, he also started writing books for kids.
Speaker 1: He has written the best selling series The Land of Stories,
Speaker 1: a series of YA books that started with the Land
Speaker 1: of Stories The Wishing Spell.
Speaker 2: His latest book is.
Speaker 1: Called Roswell Johnson Saves the World, and it is actually
Speaker 1: his twentieth Yes to Zero twentieth book. Eleven year old
Speaker 1: Roswell Johnson is obsessed with conspiracies about extraterrestrial life, an
Speaker 1: interest he inherited from his late father, who actually named
Speaker 1: Roswell after the infamous UFO crash in Roswelt, New Mexico.
Speaker 1: In this book, Roswell is accidentally abducted by aliens, so
Speaker 1: he gets to learn their real but also learns the
Speaker 1: Earth is in grave danger and he might just have
Speaker 1: to figure out how to save it. I can't wait
Speaker 1: to talk to Chris about his career and how he
Speaker 1: wound up writing the coolest kids books ever, let's get
Speaker 1: to it.
Speaker 2: Hi, Hello cutie. So what's happening in New York? What's
Speaker 2: going on?
Speaker 3: Well, I'm here promoting my new book you Bom. I
Speaker 3: literally just walked through the door. I did the View
Speaker 3: this morning, and I'm doing Seth Myers later today. So
Speaker 3: one of those crazy rowin Yeah, press weeks, as I
Speaker 3: know you're very familiar with totally.
Speaker 1: But what an interesting thing, you know, because you've done
Speaker 1: this incredible circuit. You know, you've had this like unbelievable career.
Speaker 1: I mean, my god, Like, I know none of you
Speaker 1: had a clue what Glee was going to be when
Speaker 1: you were like auditioning for it, and then bam, you
Speaker 1: know you're like all over the world and winning Emmys
Speaker 1: and like doing all the things.
Speaker 2: Is it is it sort of.
Speaker 1: Surreal to be in the promotion universe for your writing
Speaker 1: or are you sort of like, oh, I'm old hat
Speaker 1: at this because you've already released a book.
Speaker 3: You know, I feel like because I've released so many books,
Speaker 3: that is kind of old hat.
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, did I just say a book. I'm like
Speaker 1: so many books. This is your twentieth book. Did I
Speaker 1: read that correctly?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I know that really snack up on me.
Speaker 3: I thought they were joking until I counted them myself
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, yeah, I guess, I guess
Speaker 3: the R twenty. But uh, I still get just as
Speaker 3: nervous as I as I as I I did when
Speaker 3: the first book came out. Really oh yeah. So socially
Speaker 3: the press stuff, I feel like I can handle better
Speaker 3: now that I'm a little older. It's not quite as
Speaker 3: terrifying as it used to be. Uh But uh yeah,
Speaker 3: but no, I mean I because I just want people
Speaker 3: to to like the book so much that I that
Speaker 3: I still I still get nervous every single release.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm so curious about that because it's funny. On
Speaker 1: the on the other podcast, the Girls and I just
Speaker 1: watched our season six finale and that was Hillary's last episode,
Speaker 1: and we were talking about how interesting it is when
Speaker 1: you see this wish fulfillment for these people that you
Speaker 1: played for so long, how meaningful it is because we
Speaker 1: love them, like we sort of feel like our characters
Speaker 1: are our sisters or something, and right, and I think
Speaker 1: about what it is to be with someone for that
Speaker 1: long and how you guys got to do the same
Speaker 1: thing on Glee. You you embody someone. You you understand
Speaker 1: their motivations and their fears and all of these things.
Speaker 1: And that's just playing one character. That's not even creating
Speaker 1: the whole universe. So would you say that doing that
Speaker 1: as an author and and building out these worlds for
Speaker 1: these characters that you love and that you want to
Speaker 1: see succeed and you know, achieve goals, dreams, et cetera, Like,
Speaker 1: do they feel like your family in a way?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? I think you described it perfectly, where playing a
Speaker 3: character is very much like having a sibling you know,
Speaker 3: you really really want you know, it's it's like a symbiosis,
Speaker 3: as simbling symbiosis. And in a way, I would say when
Speaker 3: you write a book and it's filled characters, they're like
Speaker 3: your children. So it's more of experience where it's like
Speaker 3: you you want to protect them and yet exploit them
Speaker 3: at the same time.
Speaker 1: Well totally, you're like, I have to do this really
Speaker 1: scary thing to you because it'll be so.
Speaker 2: Good for the drama. On page sixty four.
Speaker 3: Right right. Yeah. It's also because because you know, when
Speaker 3: you write something and you write every word, it does
Speaker 3: kind of feel like you're exposing your soul a little bit,
Speaker 3: and that part itself can be can be nerve wracking
Speaker 3: because I guess my biggest fear is people are going
Speaker 3: to find out how illiterate I actually really am.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, wait, so this is actually really interesting because
Speaker 1: I've just jumped into questions with you that go very
Speaker 1: out of order. I'm sure my producers are like, what
Speaker 1: is she doing?
Speaker 3: Oh good, raging ADHD So I me too, wonderful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, halfway through this interview I'll be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: there's a part outside. But this is really interesting to
Speaker 1: me because you're you're actually in this series of books
Speaker 1: that are for young people, and I love God.
Speaker 2: I love a kid hero.
Speaker 1: And it makes me curious because for you, as a storyteller,
Speaker 1: I wonder if you look back at your own childhood,
Speaker 1: like do you see the through line always of wanting
Speaker 1: to be an actor, a performer, a writer or were
Speaker 1: you were you a totally different kid and and you
Speaker 1: found your passion for storytelling somehow, like like do you
Speaker 1: do you see it all?
Speaker 3: So when I was young, I think writing and acting
Speaker 3: bit me at the same time. And when I was younger,
Speaker 3: I didn't know the difference because they're both to me,
Speaker 3: just they're both different versions of playing pretend. So it
Speaker 3: wasn't until I got older when I realized what, you know,
Speaker 3: what the difference of both of them was, and you know,
Speaker 3: the the very unique art behind them both. So for me,
Speaker 3: it's always been the same thing, and I actually, really
Speaker 3: to this day it feels like the same thing because
Speaker 3: it's all just a matter of storytelling. I think when
Speaker 3: I was when I was the middle grade audience eight twelve,
Speaker 3: and I think when I was that age, books had
Speaker 3: such a significant profound effect on me. They were my
Speaker 3: very very first means of escapism that I knew then
Speaker 3: that I that I wanted to contribute to that world.
Speaker 3: It's still my favorite world to to contribute to.
Speaker 1: That's so cool. And And was the escapism for you
Speaker 1: as a kid, like rooted in excitement and curiosity? Was
Speaker 1: it was? It was? It rooted in I don't want
Speaker 1: to view where I am? Was it maybe like a
Speaker 1: little bit of a mix of both, a.
Speaker 3: Lot to both. Yeah, Yeah, So I was, you know,
Speaker 3: slowly discovering that I was gay in a very very
Speaker 3: conservative environment, which was not fun. I also had a
Speaker 3: sibling who had extremely at an extreme case of epilepsy
Speaker 3: where she had fifty seizures an hour, so it was
Speaker 3: really tough on the family. And I remember just being
Speaker 3: so frustrated with the world at a very young age.
Speaker 3: And so anytime I got my hands on a story
Speaker 3: about kids, you know, going to going through a wardrobe
Speaker 3: or you know, getting a letter from an owl or
Speaker 3: falling down a rabbit hole, I just I couldn't get
Speaker 3: enough of it because I wanted that so desperately, and
Speaker 3: I think to this to this day, I'm still I'm
Speaker 3: still really frustrated that none of that ever actually happened
Speaker 3: for me. Yeah, me too, And so I'm like, I'm
Speaker 3: trying to almost make that a reality by producing fiction.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: And what a cool thing that, in a way you
Speaker 1: get to help create more of what gave you an
Speaker 1: outlet as a kid.
Speaker 3: I hope. So, yeah, there's there's a there's a really
Speaker 3: a therapeutic quality with that, with you know, creating what
Speaker 3: you so desperately wanted as a kid. Yeah, I definitely
Speaker 3: have some some therapeutic qualities with.
Speaker 1: That is that where it starts, like when you think about,
Speaker 1: you know, one of these twenty books that you've written
Speaker 1: in your latest book, do you do you sort of
Speaker 1: imagine a scene first and then build the world, or
Speaker 1: do you get inspired about a world and then build
Speaker 1: all of the scenes.
Speaker 3: So my first series of Land of Stories, it really
Speaker 3: they were my imaginary best friends when I was a kid,
Speaker 3: and the books are just the ventures that I wanted
Speaker 3: to go on when I was a kid. And I
Speaker 3: think that's one of the reasons why kids have responded
Speaker 3: so positively to them, is because it's really a story
Speaker 3: created by a kid or kids. Now, I'm very, very
Speaker 3: lucky because whenever I start writing something, I see it
Speaker 3: in my head almost like a movie trailer, and then
Speaker 3: I outline it and try to piece the images that
Speaker 3: I that I see together and create a story out
Speaker 3: of those. And that's that's just always, that's always how
Speaker 3: stories have come to me, kind of almost like lightning,
Speaker 3: just in my head. I just you know, I think
Speaker 3: about like the kind of story I want to tell
Speaker 3: and the message I want to send, and then and
Speaker 3: it's it's kind of magical. And then and then image
Speaker 3: just bow my head instantly and then and then I
Speaker 3: go from there. So yeah, and I'm very grateful to
Speaker 3: that whatever that is, and I hope it never goes away.
Speaker 1: That's so cool. It's like, did you ever read that
Speaker 1: book The War of Art? No, it's so cool. It
Speaker 1: was done by an artist who had read you know,
Speaker 1: the classic Sunsu Art of War and was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but what we go through as artists is different, like you, yes,
Speaker 1: there's meditation required and training and all of these things,
Speaker 1: but it's it's a it's like a war with self.
Speaker 1: And he talks about how if you really, you know,
Speaker 1: create a cadence to make space for your art, it
Speaker 1: can begin to come through you. And it sounds like
Speaker 1: you have that like like these stories come through you
Speaker 1: and you you're like molding this clay. It's so cool.
Speaker 3: Oh thanks, Yeah, No, that's a that's a really interesting, uh,
Speaker 3: really interesting with with with they put that. And I
Speaker 3: think even now, like I'm I'm still struggling with with
Speaker 3: ways of like taking care of myself and recognizing that
Speaker 3: in order in order to write and to create, your
Speaker 3: brain is just wired differently than than a lot of
Speaker 3: people and finding healthy habits and and and uh, ways
Speaker 3: to just just you know, take care of yourself. I
Speaker 3: think I'm still I'm still struggling with to this day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my gosh, I do too. And I think
Speaker 1: that's such an ADHD thing as well. Like someone explained
Speaker 1: to me recently that the people whose brains are wired
Speaker 1: quote normally or neurotypically, you can imagine a row of
Speaker 1: building blocks set out in front of you and you
Speaker 1: go block by block. And for people like us whose
Speaker 1: brains are wired in this special way where like we're
Speaker 1: constantly inspired, great for artists, but also hard to go
Speaker 1: through it to do list. The blocks don't extend in
Speaker 1: front of you. They're vertical, so it's a stack, and
Speaker 1: it's really overwhelming to try to figure out which one
Speaker 1: to deal with first because they're all equally close and
Speaker 1: they're insummation really big and kind of overwhelming. And I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, that tracks really really interestingly. So
Speaker 1: it's so inspiring to me to hear you talk about
Speaker 1: not just the way that you're creative, but to see
Speaker 1: how creative you've been in like, in hard fact, there
Speaker 1: are twenty books and I'm like.
Speaker 2: Wow, how did you do that?
Speaker 1: Because I've got posted notes and you know, everywhere of
Speaker 1: like I'm going to do this project eventually and that
Speaker 1: project eventually, And there's you know, fifty six begun but
Speaker 1: not finished projects in my home. So I'm really like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: you're figuring out habits and like, I guess modalities of
Speaker 1: making that are working for you.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And it's funny. It takes so much self discipline
Speaker 3: to sit down and write a book that I have
Speaker 3: noticed I have no form of self discipline and any
Speaker 3: other asset aspect of my life what like like diet sucks,
Speaker 3: exercising sucks. We habits suck. But I kind of use
Speaker 3: all all the self discipline that I'm capable of in
Speaker 3: in writing and then and then everything else just kind
Speaker 3: of uh, is this kind of a mess.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, that's so interesting. How do you think you
Speaker 1: figured out how to create that discipline? Like for folks
Speaker 1: at home that are like, oh my god, I'm the same.
Speaker 1: Are there are there tricks to it? Are there like
Speaker 1: two or three things you'd say, Oh, if you're trying
Speaker 1: to create a routine of discipline to write or whatever
Speaker 1: it might be, these things worked for me.
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, you know, it's interest because life is so
Speaker 3: ever changing that I've never really had the opportunity to
Speaker 3: actually come up with one, like one method that that works.
Speaker 3: I really think it just it depends on where you
Speaker 3: are in your life and what you're going through at
Speaker 3: the time, and it changes, like I think my writing
Speaker 3: process changes constantly depending on how much is going on
Speaker 3: at the time. And I think you just have to
Speaker 3: really really focus on how badly you want to finish it,
Speaker 3: you know. I think you have to visualize the finished
Speaker 3: book in your hands and what you know, and visualize
Speaker 3: the people who who that story or that book could help.
Speaker 3: That That always helps me is envisioning the people that
Speaker 3: the story could benefit a lot. But you really you
Speaker 3: have to take it day by day, and you have
Speaker 3: you not be so hard on yourself, you know, just
Speaker 3: have to have self discipline, but no be so hard
Speaker 3: on yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's really good advice. And I think
Speaker 1: the idea of focusing on the finished thing, like if
Speaker 1: you continue to remind yourself that there is actually an
Speaker 1: end goal, there will be a thing you can hold
Speaker 1: in your hand, whether it's literal or metaphorical, that's a
Speaker 1: great that's a great reminder because then it's not so amorphous.
Speaker 3: And also just the that the finished product. Don't just
Speaker 3: celebrate the finished product, like have little celebrations along the way,
Speaker 3: like if you finish a chapter, treat yourself as you know,
Speaker 3: relish in the fact that you finish a chapter, because
Speaker 3: even if you just finish a chapter, you're still finishing
Speaker 3: more than most people can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that. Celebrate the wins and focus on
Speaker 1: the goals. It's like a both and which is really
Speaker 1: our job as actors too, you know. And it's it's
Speaker 1: funny when you talk about the you know, the shifts,
Speaker 1: and what I think I am hearing you talk about
Speaker 1: is something that I am really conscious of lately, which
Speaker 1: is that doing what we do as a day job,
Speaker 1: it's virtually impossible to have a routine, Yeah, because sometimes
Speaker 1: you're on night shoots and sometimes you're on splits, and
Speaker 1: sometimes you're going to work at four in the morning,
Speaker 1: and everything is by nature. You have to not be
Speaker 1: rattled by the fact that you can't make any plans
Speaker 1: or have any expectations about time.
Speaker 2: So then when you're not on a set.
Speaker 1: If it's hiatus or you're between shows or whatever it
Speaker 1: might be, suddenly everyone's like, well, why don't you have
Speaker 1: a routine And you're like, because I can't, and I
Speaker 1: can't be attached to one, And it's a really it's
Speaker 1: something I've definitely had to wrap my head around, and
Speaker 1: I'm trying to practice some of what you're talking about,
Speaker 1: which is not being so self critical about it, but
Speaker 1: looking at the ability to be so flexible and present
Speaker 1: as a little more of a superpower than a hindrance.
Speaker 1: I think about it too, like when you start on
Speaker 1: TV so young. You know, we had been twenty one
Speaker 1: for I don't know, eight days when we started filming
Speaker 1: Season one on One Tree Hill, and you were you
Speaker 1: guys started in two thousand and nine, you know, the
Speaker 1: early aughts. We like such a moment. What was that
Speaker 1: like for you as as not the author artist but
Speaker 1: the actor artist. What was that sort of time like
Speaker 1: the audition process and the whole rigamarole of it. Was
Speaker 1: it exciting? Was it terrifying? Was it both?
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's funny you touched on something a second ago
Speaker 3: that really made me think. Ever since Glee ended, I've
Speaker 3: kind of been like a schedule nomad because it's been
Speaker 3: I think it's been eight or so years since since
Speaker 3: Lee ended, and I saw ten years like I can't.
Speaker 3: I don't. I'm not sure time is much. You know,
Speaker 3: time goes I know, time really goes by when you're
Speaker 3: you know, having fun, I guess. But I still haven't
Speaker 3: been able to develop like a routine in my personal
Speaker 3: life because I had I spent a decade not having
Speaker 3: any freedom soever. So that's that's so interesting you said that,
Speaker 3: just that that just clicked for me. But yeah, I know,
Speaker 3: it was a very the beginning of Lee was a
Speaker 3: very grueling process. We I think we each had four auditions.
Speaker 3: We had casting director, callbacks, network, and studio all in
Speaker 3: all in a row. We had to sing and and
Speaker 3: and and act in those auditions. It wasn't until we
Speaker 3: all showed up for the first day of singing rehearsal
Speaker 3: for the pilot that we realized that you have to
Speaker 3: dance and show choir. And none of us had ever
Speaker 3: danced before, and so that was a complete shock to
Speaker 3: us and to our bodies because it wasn't even part
Speaker 3: It was never part of the audition process and and
Speaker 3: it was never written into the script. And when I
Speaker 3: think of show choir, I think of like Sister Act two,
Speaker 3: where where they they you know, the kind of step touch,
Speaker 3: step touch, but it's really focused on on the singing part.
Speaker 3: So having these so having to learn these huge choreographs
Speaker 3: sequences was just so foreign to to most of us.
Speaker 3: A few of us had been on Broadway and we're
Speaker 3: you know, we're used to it, but for the most part,
Speaker 3: it was like the first time any of us had
Speaker 3: ever had to dance like that. So and I remember
Speaker 3: when we uh the main song we did in the
Speaker 3: pilot was Don't Stop Believing, and we had to learn
Speaker 3: like I want to say, six or seven versions of
Speaker 3: that song because because the producers just weren't happy with it,
Speaker 3: and so so that was that was a really it
Speaker 3: was it was it was a culture shock on many, many,
Speaker 3: many levels. And then when we got into the filming,
Speaker 3: you know, just just just the amount of material that
Speaker 3: we had to learn, like like like just nothing, the
Speaker 3: lyrics of the song, the vocal, the vocals of the song,
Speaker 3: the dancing, the dance, the movement, the the the the
Speaker 3: the dialogue. That it was just it was crazy. And
Speaker 3: then and then and then it's like we never had
Speaker 3: that like the yeah, we did it because as soon
Speaker 3: as another episode. So it's like creating a new Broadway
Speaker 3: show every single week.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, and now for our sponsors, it's so interesting,
Speaker 1: Like the technical stuff you're referring to, I think so
Speaker 1: many people just don't know about. You know, audiences get
Speaker 1: to see this perfect hour of television that's edited in color,
Speaker 1: timed and the music is synced beautifully, and you know,
Speaker 1: the montages are gorgeous, and you're just like I nearly
Speaker 1: died that week.
Speaker 2: You know, nobody knows.
Speaker 1: That you are on like our eighteen in a sound
Speaker 1: stage with broken air conditioning, like trying not to pass out.
Speaker 3: They never see like the of the costumers having to
Speaker 3: to hair like with a hair dryer, like like dry
Speaker 3: out our like our pit stains.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my gosh, you've shared something, because you know,
Speaker 1: obviously I love to do my homework. And I read
Speaker 1: that you talked about how you know your your creator
Speaker 1: and writing team on that show would sometimes write real
Speaker 1: stories from your life into the show. And we had
Speaker 1: that too, And I realize, I don't know if that
Speaker 1: is so common in shows that are you know, about
Speaker 1: post school adults, but it does seem to be a
Speaker 1: thing that happens a lot when you're making a show
Speaker 1: about high school. Was that was that weird for you
Speaker 1: guys or for you or or was it sort of
Speaker 1: special to be able to portray things that felt really
Speaker 1: truly important to your own kind of life and journey.
Speaker 3: It was really fun, uh, First, because it meant that
Speaker 3: I got for me. It meant I got to do
Speaker 3: something on the show that I didn't get to do
Speaker 3: in real life. The one that the instance that comes
Speaker 3: to me right off the top of my head is
Speaker 3: I actually I wanted to sing define Gravity so badly
Speaker 3: in my school talent show when I was in high school,
Speaker 3: and I was told, no, you're a boy, you can't
Speaker 3: sing that song. And I was like, but I can
Speaker 3: sing it. I actually physically can sing and they said, no,
Speaker 3: it's a woman song, you're not singing it. And so
Speaker 3: I told that to the producers and they wrote that
Speaker 3: storyline into the show and so I actually got to
Speaker 3: sing the song. So that that was That was a blast.
Speaker 3: That was that was fun. But what I didn't realize
Speaker 3: was when the audience found out that a lot of
Speaker 3: these experiences that they were watching were autobiographical of us,
Speaker 3: the separation between actor and character became non existent, and
Speaker 3: that was that was probably The most challenging part of
Speaker 3: Glee was having this huge having millions and millions and
Speaker 3: millions of people think you were someone that you were not,
Speaker 3: and and not recognizing that you were you were a
Speaker 3: good actor that they just thought you were that person,
Speaker 3: and having things from our own lives on show didn't
Speaker 3: help establish that separation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that. Intimately, it's such a weird thing
Speaker 1: because it is kind of a double edged sort. You
Speaker 1: get to do these really special things, and then also
Speaker 1: there is an assumption that one hundred percent of who
Speaker 1: you are on screen is one hundred percent of you,
Speaker 1: and it's so fractional. Even if you are recreating a
Speaker 1: version of something that's happened to you in your real life,
Speaker 1: what's on screen will always be such a small case
Speaker 1: of like a full human experience. And so, yeah, I
Speaker 1: know that feeling, and I don't know, looking back on
Speaker 1: it on my show, I realize how I don't.
Speaker 2: Know I felt. You know, I just turned twenty one.
Speaker 2: I was like, listen, I'm a legal drinking age. Look
Speaker 2: at me out here. I'm a young adult.
Speaker 3: And I look back.
Speaker 1: Down, I'm like, oh my god, I was a baby. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I was still such a little kid trying to
Speaker 1: call play as a grown up. You were nineteen when
Speaker 1: the show started, and I think every year when you're
Speaker 1: a teenager into your early twenties is like five years
Speaker 1: when you're you know, forty. Was it surreal for you?
Speaker 1: Did you feel like you had to pretend to be
Speaker 1: more grown up or expert than you were?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean, like our friendsal Lobes weren't fully developed yet. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and you know, like you said, cosplaying as an adult,
Speaker 3: it's a great way to put it. And I remember
Speaker 3: I really should have had a parent or someone with
Speaker 3: me during during that too, a lot of that, and
Speaker 3: I didn't because I, you know, in my eighteen year
Speaker 3: old logic was like, no, I want to be taken seriously,
Speaker 3: and no one will take it seriously if I have
Speaker 3: a mom or a dad hanging out with me. And
Speaker 3: I really wish I did, because I think income I
Speaker 3: would have handled and processed things a lot easier if
Speaker 3: I had someone with a little more maturity with me
Speaker 3: at all times.
Speaker 1: Totally. I think about it, especially with shows like ours
Speaker 1: that were set in high schools, and I'm like, high
Speaker 1: schools have guidance counselors. Why isn't there. You know, now
Speaker 1: we're finally at this moment where we're talking about intimacy
Speaker 1: coordinators and more professional practice on set with regards to
Speaker 1: how we feel in our physical bodies. But I'm like,
Speaker 1: what about like our our mental health. Yeah, Like I
Speaker 1: wish that TV shows that were surrounding high school and
Speaker 1: that had such young actors on them had to have
Speaker 1: a version of a of a real life guidance counselor
Speaker 1: on set.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, I feel like I think they do that
Speaker 3: for for like some some reality competition shows. Really Okay,
Speaker 3: I believe I read someone where like the American Idol
Speaker 3: Kids and and like the Voice contestants, like they have
Speaker 3: like people to help them go from you know, obscurity
Speaker 3: to sensationalism overnight. But yeah, we didn't. I guess because
Speaker 3: it's scripted, they didn't think we needed it. But I do.
Speaker 3: I really think that's a great idea.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it would be so cool just to have
Speaker 1: somebody help you make sense of things.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think I think everyone, every child star, teenage
Speaker 3: star absolutely should have a therapist. Even if you are
Speaker 3: very very well adjusted and you have a great support system,
Speaker 3: it's so good just to go and you have to
Speaker 3: go look under the hood every now and then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. You know, when we talk about how
Speaker 1: hard it is to have a routine, I think the
Speaker 1: inability to do so when you're working on TV is
Speaker 1: what made me always sort of put therapy on the
Speaker 1: back burner, like I dip in and then I dip out.
Speaker 2: Work would be busy, I'd be like, oh, I just.
Speaker 1: Don't have time. And it for the last couple of years,
Speaker 1: like truly the last two years straight. It is a
Speaker 1: non negotiable, like Tuesday at nine am is my time.
Speaker 1: It's my hour and when I have to be on set.
Speaker 1: Luckily the professional that I work with now we have
Speaker 1: like a flexibility system, but it is it's just like
Speaker 1: once a week I have that hour. It's my thing,
Speaker 1: and it is wild to be like wow, it took
Speaker 1: me almost until my forties to like take it seriously enough.
Speaker 1: It would have been really great to have had in
Speaker 1: my early twenties for sure.
Speaker 3: And I don't understand people who don't believe in therapy.
Speaker 3: I mean, like I love it, like like you just
Speaker 3: you get an hour where you just get to talk
Speaker 3: about yourself NonStop and they can't leave. I mean it's great.
Speaker 3: I mean, who wouldn't want that?
Speaker 1: Well, it's also like we've gotten so good about understanding
Speaker 1: whether we actually do it or not. You know, you
Speaker 1: need to take care of yourself. Your physical body needs
Speaker 1: to move, like your brain needs care too. An hour
Speaker 1: a week to take care of your brain actually doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like that much when you think about it that way.
Speaker 1: So I'm with you, I'm all in. Did you start
Speaker 1: any kind of like mental health care practice toward the
Speaker 1: end of Glee or did it take you until that
Speaker 1: was like fully done to begin to create that space
Speaker 1: for yourself?
Speaker 3: You know it was really Unfortunately I wish I wish
Speaker 3: I had started it right off the bat. It was
Speaker 3: when I first started getting death threats that I started
Speaker 3: going in, But unfortunately took that for me to realize, Oh,
Speaker 3: I can't handle everything you said I was. I was.
Speaker 3: I was eighteen when when the show started, and and I,
Speaker 3: as an eighteen year old, thought thought I thought I
Speaker 3: knew everything, thought I could handle everything that I thought
Speaker 3: I was. You know, thought I was, And I mean,
Speaker 3: to my credit, I was. I've always been very I've
Speaker 3: always been an old soul. But even old souls can't
Speaker 3: handle everything especially things that are completely foreign to them.
Speaker 3: So I wish I had started much earlier, but I
Speaker 3: did start, and once I started, it was it was
Speaker 3: it was a major, major help.
Speaker 1: That's really great. I'm glad to hear that it is.
Speaker 1: It is very strange, and having been through versions of
Speaker 1: that myself, like it took me a while to understand
Speaker 1: that unless it's happened to you, you just can't understand
Speaker 1: how traumatic it is, and that no matter what happens
Speaker 1: in your career, you don't change. You remain one person.
Speaker 1: But what's on the other end of the funnel continues
Speaker 1: to grow and grow and grow. And there are wonderful
Speaker 1: parts of that, like look at this career you have
Speaker 1: as an author and all this other exciting work you
Speaker 1: get to do. But to be on the receiving end
Speaker 1: of the energy of millions and millions of people when
Speaker 1: sometimes there's a large section of those people that are
Speaker 1: you know, violent or scary. You're like the people who
Speaker 1: read my books and want to talk about like kids
Speaker 1: saving the world are pretty great.
Speaker 2: But the other end of the spectrum.
Speaker 1: Like, ah, right, you know, it's tough. Do you think
Speaker 1: part of what made that feel? I mean, as intense
Speaker 1: as it is for you. But part of what made
Speaker 1: that journey so enormous because you might you know, you
Speaker 1: grew up in a conservative environment. You were figuring out
Speaker 1: you were gay as a young kid, but you weren't
Speaker 1: like out out yet right when the show started and
Speaker 1: then and then your character was having this journey. Did
Speaker 1: that feel freeing for you in a way or scary
Speaker 1: or maybe also a mix of both.
Speaker 3: Oh, it was terrifying, guess because I think because I
Speaker 3: knew that it would make me, it would force me
Speaker 3: to look into myself in places that I wasn't ready
Speaker 3: to look into. And I mean, I knew very well
Speaker 3: how dangerous it was to to to be young and
Speaker 3: gay from my surroundings, uh as a kid, and to
Speaker 3: go from that to a global uh stage was it
Speaker 3: was terrifying. But I have no idea what came over me,
Speaker 3: But I just I really I'd like to think that
Speaker 3: I rose to the occasion. And I'll never forget. We
Speaker 3: were on a hot topic signing tour right before the
Speaker 3: show came out to promote the show. This little boye
Speaker 3: like like slid when his parents weren't looking slid this
Speaker 3: like this envelope to me and there was a little
Speaker 3: handwritten note in it that just said thank you, and
Speaker 3: he created a like a chain out of paper clips
Speaker 3: in the colors of the rainbow. It was in that
Speaker 3: moment I knew, like, I I have to I have
Speaker 3: to come out and I have to be honest because
Speaker 3: because because because kids like that need need someone to
Speaker 3: look look to. And it was it was never a
Speaker 3: role that I planned on on on on a taking on,
Speaker 3: but I just I just knew I needed to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's the thing, Like, visibility can change everything
Speaker 1: for people. And one of the things I think I've
Speaker 1: realized is that the more myself I am, the more
Speaker 1: yourself you are, the the more space you have to
Speaker 1: help other people be themselves. And we are in these
Speaker 1: constant states of becoming. And so if if by modeling
Speaker 1: or being courageous about your becoming, someone following in your footsteps,
Speaker 1: you know who's on that same life path as you
Speaker 1: can say, oh I'm gonna be okay, Oh I can
Speaker 1: do that, I can achieve that. You know, that's really
Speaker 1: really beautiful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, it's kind of like the whole
Speaker 3: point of I guess life really is just you know,
Speaker 3: making life a little easier for the next generation. And
Speaker 3: I think Glee put me in a position that I
Speaker 3: got to do that. And what an honor and privilege
Speaker 3: because not everyone gets skits that opportunity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors that I
Speaker 1: really enjoy and I think you will too.
Speaker 4: Hey, friends, I'm Jessica Capshaw and this is Camilla Luddington
Speaker 4: and we have a new podcast, call It what it Is.
Speaker 4: You may know us from Gracelawn Memorial, but did you
Speaker 4: know that we are actually besties in life.
Speaker 5: And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and
Speaker 5: lows of life together. When one of us sends out
Speaker 5: the distress signal, the other one always answers the call,
Speaker 5: big or small, we are there.
Speaker 4: And what does that look like? A thousand pep talks
Speaker 4: a million. I've got yous, some very urgent I'm coming.
Speaker 5: Overs laughter through tears, no judgment, problem solving over glasses
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Speaker 1: Because I don't know.
Speaker 4: Let's face it, life can get even crazier than a
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Speaker 5: And now here we are opening up the friendship circle
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Speaker 4: every once in a while bring on an awesome guest
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Speaker 5: While we may be un license to advise, we're gonna
Speaker 5: do it anyway.
Speaker 4: Listen to call it what it is starting June third
Speaker 4: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get
Speaker 4: your podcasts.
Speaker 1: How did you know, because obviously you know, we're talking
Speaker 1: about book twenty and I want to get into some
Speaker 1: of the details about.
Speaker 2: Roswell Johnson saving the world.
Speaker 1: But you you wrote your first book while you were
Speaker 1: still shooting Glee, right, How did you do that?
Speaker 3: You know? I think very much. It offered me a
Speaker 3: great way to escape some of the challenges of shooting.
Speaker 1: That show, like an outlet for your energy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and especially like when because it was a very
Speaker 3: grueling shoot. Uh. You know, we worked eighty hour weeks,
Speaker 3: non stop, up and down, singing, dancing, and even even
Speaker 3: on our days off on the weekends, we'd have to
Speaker 3: go in and record and rehearse. Yeah, person and all
Speaker 3: of that so it really helped my sanity, having just
Speaker 3: something else to focus my my tension on. Uh uh holy.
Speaker 3: And I remember, like, even like when we went on
Speaker 3: like the the world tour of Glee, I would show
Speaker 3: up at the stadiums a few hours earlier than everyone else,
Speaker 3: and I would I would sit underneath the stage because
Speaker 3: it was the only place that was quiet, and I
Speaker 3: would and I would write. And just having having that
Speaker 3: that escape really I think helped my sanity so much
Speaker 3: through that whole, that whole, that whole period of time.
Speaker 1: That's so incredible. And and the fact that you had
Speaker 1: the wherewithal to care for yourself in such a healthy
Speaker 1: and productive way amazes me.
Speaker 3: You know, I didn't realize. I didn't realize it was
Speaker 3: healthier productive because because it was.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 3: I mean, it wasn't It wasn't easy. It was it
Speaker 3: was tough to write a book regardless, and and it
Speaker 3: was really tough to find time to write it. But
Speaker 3: now looking back, I realized how like how much that
Speaker 3: saved me.
Speaker 1: It's so cool. I'm like, wow, the thing that I
Speaker 1: wind up doing when I'm doing eighty hour weeks and
Speaker 1: I like can't sleep when I first get home as
Speaker 1: I started designing houses I don't own on Pinterest.
Speaker 2: Oh, and I'm like, huh.
Speaker 1: I mean my Pinterest words are great. By the way,
Speaker 1: anyone who's ever like moving I help them with their space.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, interesting that there's just these like eighty
Speaker 1: seven made up homes in a secret internet file. There
Speaker 1: are not there are not twenty books. How tell me
Speaker 1: about Roswell? Because I I am such a space baby,
Speaker 1: Like all I ever want to do is watch cartoons
Speaker 1: about space and read about space. There's something about like
Speaker 1: kids books that center on it that are my very
Speaker 1: favorite thing. And I want to know everything about Roswell Johnson.
Speaker 1: I want to know where these obsessions with conspiracies and
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial life came from. Give me and our friends at
Speaker 1: home the full rundown.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, where do I begin. Well, it sounds
Speaker 3: like we're cut from same cloth. So that's fine. That'll
Speaker 3: make a fuck to you. I have, oh similar. I
Speaker 3: have been fascinated with space and our galaxy, our universe. Uh,
Speaker 3: for as long as I can remember and and cannot
Speaker 3: get enough. I mean, I watch every documentary, I read
Speaker 3: every book. I I just I'm obsessed and I'm obsessed
Speaker 3: with the idea of alien life because to me, alien
Speaker 3: life is always represented possibility and progress and unity because
Speaker 3: I mean, for for beings to have that kind of
Speaker 3: technology and have those those those vessels that can move
Speaker 3: like they do, if if they exist, it would take
Speaker 3: an incredible amount of uh of camaraderie and unity and sources.
Speaker 3: So that means that maybe somewhere in this universe there's
Speaker 3: a planet that got it right, that that that come
Speaker 3: together and be together and and bond over one common goal.
Speaker 3: So I love that. That's that's what aliens have always
Speaker 3: represented to me, and I I just thought it would
Speaker 3: be a great world to a book in. And I
Speaker 3: started fantasizing about writing this series about halfway through when
Speaker 3: I was writing the Lamb story series, and I was
Speaker 3: planning on writing this right after the Lamb Stories, but
Speaker 3: my publisher persuaded me to write a prequel series instead,
Speaker 3: so I wrote the Tale of Magic series in between
Speaker 3: the Lamb Stories. In this one. So this has been
Speaker 3: in my head for a very long time, That's what
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 1: Going to say. You've had so long to really let
Speaker 1: this marinate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I don't know, like I've always had
Speaker 3: this like this just just drive to tell some sort
Speaker 3: of alien story. And I've pitched so many shows about
Speaker 3: aliens and about the Indigo children, and and and so,
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's been a passion of mine just
Speaker 3: to get a story out there about about aliens and
Speaker 3: and get a story out there that maybe hopefully makes
Speaker 3: people less scared of them. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully that's what
Speaker 3: this does. But this is a This book is about
Speaker 3: a little boy who accidentally gets subducted by aliens and
Speaker 3: while he's up in Spain, finds out or uncovers this
Speaker 3: evil plot to destroy Earth. And so he teams up
Speaker 3: with a bunch of quirky aliens and together they they
Speaker 3: fight to save Earth, and along the way, Roswell, the
Speaker 3: main character, regains his faith in humanity and the world.
Speaker 1: I love that realizes the world's worth saving.
Speaker 3: He realizes the world is worth saving, right, And when
Speaker 3: we meet him in the beginning, he's not invinced. He
Speaker 3: he goes through one of his first experiences of racism,
Speaker 3: so he's very very down and very very I'm depressed.
Speaker 3: But after an adventure through space that that whoops him
Speaker 3: back into shade.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it so well, how how
Speaker 1: many books do you envision being in this series?
Speaker 3: I think four. It really just depends if people hate it,
Speaker 3: maybe not for it. That's always that's always a deciding
Speaker 3: factor because you have to think, like how many things
Speaker 3: can he save? You know, he can save the world,
Speaker 3: he can save the Solar System, you can save the galaxy.
Speaker 3: Then he can save the universe, and after that there's
Speaker 3: not much left to save you. But yes, so I think,
Speaker 3: I think, I think, I think, uh, I think four
Speaker 3: would be would be a good number to tell.
Speaker 1: The story that feels really exciting. Not that I imagine
Speaker 1: you have any more time, because look at all of
Speaker 1: what you're doing, but you you are such a gifted
Speaker 1: musician and worse, Oh my god, right, well it's so funny,
Speaker 1: Like I just met the sweetest gal the other day
Speaker 1: and she was like, I'm such a fan and sorry
Speaker 1: that's probably so annoying, and I was like, I'll take
Speaker 1: I'm such a fan over. I absolutely hate everything you
Speaker 1: do right.
Speaker 2: Any day, it's so nice, don't stress.
Speaker 1: We were giggling. It was like it was very very funny.
Speaker 1: But I'm such a fan of your music and you're
Speaker 1: singing and and you know you earlier you mentioned that
Speaker 1: some of you guys you know, on the cast of
Speaker 1: your first show came from Broadway, and I know you
Speaker 1: re performed with our dear work in progress sister friend
Speaker 1: Dylan mulvaney, just a gorgeous Broadway baby. Like, do you
Speaker 1: when you sort of think about, Okay, you're going to
Speaker 1: work on this series and you're launching this first book
Speaker 1: in the series now, and you look at the future
Speaker 1: landscape of your creative endeavors, do you maybe want to
Speaker 1: go back to Broadway? Are you going to make more music?
Speaker 3: What do you think?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, for me, singing has always just been It's
Speaker 3: been a tool, not a not a passion interesting. But
Speaker 3: I think I would love to do Broadway some someday.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I could do it in the
Speaker 3: in the foreseeable future, but I would like to do
Speaker 3: it someday just just for the experience. And I would
Speaker 3: I would really love to be like in like a
Speaker 3: big like ensemble play at first, and that would be
Speaker 3: a great segue into into that world. Gosh, but in music,
Speaker 3: like you know, I always say my doing thing for music,
Speaker 3: but then I always get asked to sing places, So
Speaker 3: I'm sure I'll get roped into some of their charity
Speaker 3: event or or you know, I'm sure Jalan will make
Speaker 3: me sing again with her.
Speaker 1: I would love it. I'm I'm firmly on team Chris
Speaker 1: goes to Broadway. So you just keep me posted on
Speaker 1: what the plan is.
Speaker 3: Thanks.
Speaker 1: I will when we talk about you know, because you're
Speaker 1: you're writing these wonderful young adult books and giving kids
Speaker 1: these spaces to dream and escape and be creative and
Speaker 1: all of this creative energy performing, singing, writing is something
Speaker 1: that you always needed and wanted to pursue. Is there
Speaker 1: from where you sit now, is there advice that you
Speaker 1: would give to a young kid kind of in that
Speaker 1: you know, eight to twelve demographic, maybe about pursuing creativity
Speaker 1: or you know, starting in this industry or or any
Speaker 1: of the others that surround it.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I would say, dream as big as possible, but
Speaker 3: also dream as broad as possible. Don't dream specifically, because
Speaker 3: this industry is so uh what's the word unreliable? Uh
Speaker 3: it's so unpredictable. Uh. The more specific you dream, I think,
Speaker 3: the more disappointment you you will you will have. Don't
Speaker 3: give yourself, you know, don't give yourself like deadlines like
Speaker 3: I have to do this by this age, or I
Speaker 3: have to do this by this certain time, or if
Speaker 3: I do this, it has to be this specific thing.
Speaker 3: You know. Really, just say to yourself, I want to
Speaker 3: I want to do this, this, this, and this in
Speaker 3: my lifetime, and then just be open, be as open
Speaker 3: as you possibly can to uh, whatever comes your way.
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that so much. That's phenomenal advice.
Speaker 1: So from this place, you know, a top this pile
Speaker 1: of books that you've written and published, uh, and and
Speaker 1: everything that you've done so far and the things that
Speaker 1: you will do when you kind of take stock, what
Speaker 1: feels like you are work in progress right now?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that's a great question. I feel like
Speaker 3: I have so many answers.
Speaker 1: You can say, and as many as you want.
Speaker 3: I think taking it in is the ultimate work and
Speaker 3: progress for me, because I always always feel like a
Speaker 3: failure and it doesn't matter how much I accomplish, it
Speaker 3: doesn't matter, you know, like like like like like the
Speaker 3: reviews for my new book came out and they were
Speaker 3: all they were all really great reviews, and I can't
Speaker 3: accept that for some reason. I just I can only
Speaker 3: accept accept like negatives sometimes and so I think, yeah,
Speaker 3: for me, the ultimate work in progress is just take
Speaker 3: you step back and accepting the positivity. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, it totally does. It totally does.
Speaker 3: Like, like I you know, I hear from LGBT kids
Speaker 3: around the world every single day. I've gotten a thousand
Speaker 3: messages a week since the show started fifteen years ago,
Speaker 3: and I love it and I feel so I'm so
Speaker 3: proud of that, but there is part of me that
Speaker 3: just cannot accept it as reality, Like like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: there's just like this and I don't know what it is,
Speaker 3: but there's there's just this I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: like like a false sense of protection for myself or what,
Speaker 3: but there is a there's a block where I can't
Speaker 3: I can't let it in all the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally understand that. It's actually really interesting because
Speaker 1: one of the things I've been learning about ADHD and
Speaker 1: like us, you know, sparkly neurospicy folks, is like there
Speaker 1: is an immediate desire when someone shares something to be
Speaker 1: like I.
Speaker 2: Understand that because like here's my.
Speaker 1: Experience with that, and that some folks whose brains aren't
Speaker 1: like ours are like, well, it's not about you right now,
Speaker 1: and you're like, no, I'm.
Speaker 2: Trying to empathize with you. Like I'm telling you, I
Speaker 2: literally know how you feel.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting because I can track it, and I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to be like exactly, I feel that exactly.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's brain chemistry. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's the toughness of being an artist that
Speaker 1: makes you a little prepared for the worst always, but
Speaker 1: I really struggle with the same and yeah, for some reason,
Speaker 1: the successes don't matter, but like the one failure is forever,
Speaker 1: and I think to begin to see that a little
Speaker 1: bit differently. I had a really impactful experience years ago
Speaker 1: that I talked about a lot with a coworker. I
Speaker 1: was like having one of those days where I was
Speaker 1: really just like ragging on myself and I was sitting
Speaker 1: in a chair and she spun my chair around and
Speaker 1: grabbed me by the shoulders and she said, watch your mouth.
Speaker 1: You're talking about my best friend like that.
Speaker 6: Oh, And I was like, oh shit, Well, like, oh oh,
Speaker 6: because I would never allow somebody to talk about my
Speaker 6: best friend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll talk about myself or to refuse to let
Speaker 1: her relish in her accomplishments. And if she were to
Speaker 1: say to me, yeah, but I haven't done pill in
Speaker 1: the blank, I'd be like, so, look at everything you
Speaker 1: have done, and all we have is more time. As
Speaker 1: long as we're so lucky to not get hit by
Speaker 1: a bus tomorrow, we have plenty of time. We'll achieve
Speaker 1: that shit like all in due time. You know you
Speaker 1: just you gave the advice to a stranger just a
Speaker 1: minute ago, like, don't set timelines for yourself, just have
Speaker 1: the goal, give yourself a lifetime. And so I wonder
Speaker 1: if there's something in that to be like, oh right,
Speaker 1: I like my wish for you would be that you
Speaker 1: get to go oh, I do deserve to feel as
Speaker 1: good about what I'm doing as I would want my
Speaker 1: best friend to feel about what they're doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's also for me. It's also a perfectionism issue,
Speaker 3: like like, for some reason, I don't know where I
Speaker 3: picked this up, but if it isn't perfect, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: It's not a value. Look, I was just on the
Speaker 3: view a few hours ago, and it was it was
Speaker 3: a great It was a great interview. Everyone was everyone
Speaker 3: was so kind and I got to tell fun stories
Speaker 3: and I and I walked off that stage and I
Speaker 3: was just like, I failed. I failed. It was it was,
Speaker 3: it wasn't perfect, therefore therefore it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: I interviewed Julian Huff years ago, like when I think
Speaker 1: about my friends that are like triple threats like you,
Speaker 1: and she talked a lot about learning perfectionism in the
Speaker 1: ballroom world and how perfectionism is like essentially a mental
Speaker 1: death sentence because perfect doesn't exist. So when you're a perfectionist,
Speaker 1: you set yourself up to fail all the time. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I feel attacked, my god. And
Speaker 1: I do think there's something about like, in an industry
Speaker 1: like ours, nobody wants you to get too confident, and
Speaker 1: they certainly don't want you to get too expensive. And
Speaker 1: then there's this perspective from the outside that if you're
Speaker 1: in this industry, everything must be so easy for you.
Speaker 1: So it's just like constant criticism. And I wonder if
Speaker 1: the propensity to self criticize, like you said, is a
Speaker 1: defense mechanism. Well, if I say I failed first, you
Speaker 1: can't tell me anything I don't already know. And it's
Speaker 1: like I hate that for us so I don't know,
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. I think vocalizing and naming, letting the
Speaker 1: good in as a work in progress is a really
Speaker 1: that's beautiful, and I know that's important to you, and
Speaker 1: it's important to me, and it's probably really important to
Speaker 1: a lot of people listening today too. Thank you, yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 3: Oh,