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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Hello

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Speaker 1: whip smarties. Today we are joined by an absolutely brilliant actor, singer,

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Speaker 1: and yes author. Today's guest is none other than Chris Colfer.

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Speaker 1: I came to absolutely love Chris playing Kurt on the

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Speaker 1: critically acclaimed TV show Glee. He won many an award

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Speaker 1: for that series, and somehow, while he was managing to

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Speaker 1: learn all of that choreography record albums travel the world

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Speaker 1: on a global tour, he also started writing books for kids.

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Speaker 1: He has written the best selling series The Land of Stories,

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Speaker 1: a series of YA books that started with the Land

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Speaker 1: of Stories The Wishing Spell.

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Speaker 2: His latest book is.

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Speaker 1: Called Roswell Johnson Saves the World, and it is actually

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Speaker 1: his twentieth Yes to Zero twentieth book. Eleven year old

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Speaker 1: Roswell Johnson is obsessed with conspiracies about extraterrestrial life, an

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Speaker 1: interest he inherited from his late father, who actually named

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Speaker 1: Roswell after the infamous UFO crash in Roswelt, New Mexico.

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Speaker 1: In this book, Roswell is accidentally abducted by aliens, so

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Speaker 1: he gets to learn their real but also learns the

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Speaker 1: Earth is in grave danger and he might just have

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Speaker 1: to figure out how to save it. I can't wait

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Speaker 1: to talk to Chris about his career and how he

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Speaker 1: wound up writing the coolest kids books ever, let's get

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Speaker 1: to it.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Hello cutie. So what's happening in New York? What's

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Speaker 2: going on?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm here promoting my new book you Bom. I

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Speaker 3: literally just walked through the door. I did the View

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Speaker 3: this morning, and I'm doing Seth Myers later today. So

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Speaker 3: one of those crazy rowin Yeah, press weeks, as I

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Speaker 3: know you're very familiar with totally.

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Speaker 1: But what an interesting thing, you know, because you've done

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Speaker 1: this incredible circuit. You know, you've had this like unbelievable career.

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Speaker 1: I mean, my god, Like, I know none of you

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Speaker 1: had a clue what Glee was going to be when

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Speaker 1: you were like auditioning for it, and then bam, you

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Speaker 1: know you're like all over the world and winning Emmys

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Speaker 1: and like doing all the things.

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Speaker 2: Is it is it sort of.

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Speaker 1: Surreal to be in the promotion universe for your writing

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Speaker 1: or are you sort of like, oh, I'm old hat

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Speaker 1: at this because you've already released a book.

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Speaker 3: You know, I feel like because I've released so many books,

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Speaker 3: that is kind of old hat.

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Speaker 1: Now, yeah, did I just say a book. I'm like

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Speaker 1: so many books. This is your twentieth book. Did I

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Speaker 1: read that correctly?

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I know that really snack up on me.

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Speaker 3: I thought they were joking until I counted them myself

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Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, yeah, I guess, I guess

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Speaker 3: the R twenty. But uh, I still get just as

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Speaker 3: nervous as I as I as I I did when

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Speaker 3: the first book came out. Really oh yeah. So socially

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Speaker 3: the press stuff, I feel like I can handle better

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Speaker 3: now that I'm a little older. It's not quite as

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Speaker 3: terrifying as it used to be. Uh But uh yeah,

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Speaker 3: but no, I mean I because I just want people

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Speaker 3: to to like the book so much that I that

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Speaker 3: I still I still get nervous every single release.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm so curious about that because it's funny. On

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Speaker 1: the on the other podcast, the Girls and I just

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Speaker 1: watched our season six finale and that was Hillary's last episode,

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Speaker 1: and we were talking about how interesting it is when

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Speaker 1: you see this wish fulfillment for these people that you

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Speaker 1: played for so long, how meaningful it is because we

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Speaker 1: love them, like we sort of feel like our characters

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Speaker 1: are our sisters or something, and right, and I think

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Speaker 1: about what it is to be with someone for that

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Speaker 1: long and how you guys got to do the same

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Speaker 1: thing on Glee. You you embody someone. You you understand

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Speaker 1: their motivations and their fears and all of these things.

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Speaker 1: And that's just playing one character. That's not even creating

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Speaker 1: the whole universe. So would you say that doing that

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Speaker 1: as an author and and building out these worlds for

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Speaker 1: these characters that you love and that you want to

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Speaker 1: see succeed and you know, achieve goals, dreams, et cetera, Like,

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Speaker 1: do they feel like your family in a way?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely? I think you described it perfectly, where playing a

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Speaker 3: character is very much like having a sibling you know,

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Speaker 3: you really really want you know, it's it's like a symbiosis,

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Speaker 3: as simbling symbiosis. And in a way, I would say when

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Speaker 3: you write a book and it's filled characters, they're like

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Speaker 3: your children. So it's more of experience where it's like

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Speaker 3: you you want to protect them and yet exploit them

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Speaker 3: at the same time.

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Speaker 1: Well totally, you're like, I have to do this really

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Speaker 1: scary thing to you because it'll be so.

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Speaker 2: Good for the drama. On page sixty four.

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Speaker 3: Right right. Yeah. It's also because because you know, when

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Speaker 3: you write something and you write every word, it does

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Speaker 3: kind of feel like you're exposing your soul a little bit,

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Speaker 3: and that part itself can be can be nerve wracking

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Speaker 3: because I guess my biggest fear is people are going

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Speaker 3: to find out how illiterate I actually really am.

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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, wait, so this is actually really interesting because

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Speaker 1: I've just jumped into questions with you that go very

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Speaker 1: out of order. I'm sure my producers are like, what

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Speaker 1: is she doing?

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Speaker 3: Oh good, raging ADHD So I me too, wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, halfway through this interview I'll be like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: there's a part outside. But this is really interesting to

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Speaker 1: me because you're you're actually in this series of books

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Speaker 1: that are for young people, and I love God.

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Speaker 2: I love a kid hero.

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Speaker 1: And it makes me curious because for you, as a storyteller,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you look back at your own childhood,

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Speaker 1: like do you see the through line always of wanting

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Speaker 1: to be an actor, a performer, a writer or were

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Speaker 1: you were you a totally different kid and and you

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Speaker 1: found your passion for storytelling somehow, like like do you

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Speaker 1: do you see it all?

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Speaker 3: So when I was young, I think writing and acting

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Speaker 3: bit me at the same time. And when I was younger,

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Speaker 3: I didn't know the difference because they're both to me,

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Speaker 3: just they're both different versions of playing pretend. So it

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Speaker 3: wasn't until I got older when I realized what, you know,

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Speaker 3: what the difference of both of them was, and you know,

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Speaker 3: the the very unique art behind them both. So for me,

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Speaker 3: it's always been the same thing, and I actually, really

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Speaker 3: to this day it feels like the same thing because

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Speaker 3: it's all just a matter of storytelling. I think when

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Speaker 3: I was when I was the middle grade audience eight twelve,

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Speaker 3: and I think when I was that age, books had

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Speaker 3: such a significant profound effect on me. They were my

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Speaker 3: very very first means of escapism that I knew then

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Speaker 3: that I that I wanted to contribute to that world.

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Speaker 3: It's still my favorite world to to contribute to.

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Speaker 1: That's so cool. And And was the escapism for you

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Speaker 1: as a kid, like rooted in excitement and curiosity? Was

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Speaker 1: it was? It was? It rooted in I don't want

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Speaker 1: to view where I am? Was it maybe like a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a mix of both, a.

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Speaker 3: Lot to both. Yeah, Yeah, So I was, you know,

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Speaker 3: slowly discovering that I was gay in a very very

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Speaker 3: conservative environment, which was not fun. I also had a

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Speaker 3: sibling who had extremely at an extreme case of epilepsy

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Speaker 3: where she had fifty seizures an hour, so it was

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Speaker 3: really tough on the family. And I remember just being

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Speaker 3: so frustrated with the world at a very young age.

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Speaker 3: And so anytime I got my hands on a story

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Speaker 3: about kids, you know, going to going through a wardrobe

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Speaker 3: or you know, getting a letter from an owl or

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Speaker 3: falling down a rabbit hole, I just I couldn't get

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Speaker 3: enough of it because I wanted that so desperately, and

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Speaker 3: I think to this to this day, I'm still I'm

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Speaker 3: still really frustrated that none of that ever actually happened

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Speaker 3: for me. Yeah, me too, And so I'm like, I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to almost make that a reality by producing fiction.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 1: And what a cool thing that, in a way you

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Speaker 1: get to help create more of what gave you an

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Speaker 1: outlet as a kid.

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Speaker 3: I hope. So, yeah, there's there's a there's a really

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Speaker 3: a therapeutic quality with that, with you know, creating what

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Speaker 3: you so desperately wanted as a kid. Yeah, I definitely

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Speaker 3: have some some therapeutic qualities with.

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Speaker 1: That is that where it starts, like when you think about,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of these twenty books that you've written

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Speaker 1: in your latest book, do you do you sort of

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Speaker 1: imagine a scene first and then build the world, or

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Speaker 1: do you get inspired about a world and then build

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Speaker 1: all of the scenes.

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Speaker 3: So my first series of Land of Stories, it really

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Speaker 3: they were my imaginary best friends when I was a kid,

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Speaker 3: and the books are just the ventures that I wanted

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Speaker 3: to go on when I was a kid. And I

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Speaker 3: think that's one of the reasons why kids have responded

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Speaker 3: so positively to them, is because it's really a story

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Speaker 3: created by a kid or kids. Now, I'm very, very

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Speaker 3: lucky because whenever I start writing something, I see it

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Speaker 3: in my head almost like a movie trailer, and then

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Speaker 3: I outline it and try to piece the images that

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Speaker 3: I that I see together and create a story out

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Speaker 3: of those. And that's that's just always, that's always how

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Speaker 3: stories have come to me, kind of almost like lightning,

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Speaker 3: just in my head. I just you know, I think

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Speaker 3: about like the kind of story I want to tell

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Speaker 3: and the message I want to send, and then and

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Speaker 3: it's it's kind of magical. And then and then image

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Speaker 3: just bow my head instantly and then and then I

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Speaker 3: go from there. So yeah, and I'm very grateful to

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Speaker 3: that whatever that is, and I hope it never goes away.

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Speaker 1: That's so cool. It's like, did you ever read that

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Speaker 1: book The War of Art? No, it's so cool. It

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Speaker 1: was done by an artist who had read you know,

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Speaker 1: the classic Sunsu Art of War and was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but what we go through as artists is different, like you, yes,

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Speaker 1: there's meditation required and training and all of these things,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's a it's like a war with self.

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Speaker 1: And he talks about how if you really, you know,

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Speaker 1: create a cadence to make space for your art, it

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Speaker 1: can begin to come through you. And it sounds like

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Speaker 1: you have that like like these stories come through you

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Speaker 1: and you you're like molding this clay. It's so cool.

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Speaker 3: Oh thanks, Yeah, No, that's a that's a really interesting, uh,

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Speaker 3: really interesting with with with they put that. And I

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Speaker 3: think even now, like I'm I'm still struggling with with

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Speaker 3: ways of like taking care of myself and recognizing that

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Speaker 3: in order in order to write and to create, your

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Speaker 3: brain is just wired differently than than a lot of

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Speaker 3: people and finding healthy habits and and and uh, ways

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Speaker 3: to just just you know, take care of yourself. I

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Speaker 3: think I'm still I'm still struggling with to this day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my gosh, I do too. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's such an ADHD thing as well. Like someone explained

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Speaker 1: to me recently that the people whose brains are wired

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Speaker 1: quote normally or neurotypically, you can imagine a row of

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Speaker 1: building blocks set out in front of you and you

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Speaker 1: go block by block. And for people like us whose

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Speaker 1: brains are wired in this special way where like we're

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Speaker 1: constantly inspired, great for artists, but also hard to go

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Speaker 1: through it to do list. The blocks don't extend in

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Speaker 1: front of you. They're vertical, so it's a stack, and

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Speaker 1: it's really overwhelming to try to figure out which one

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Speaker 1: to deal with first because they're all equally close and

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Speaker 1: they're insummation really big and kind of overwhelming. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, that tracks really really interestingly. So

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Speaker 1: it's so inspiring to me to hear you talk about

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Speaker 1: not just the way that you're creative, but to see

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Speaker 1: how creative you've been in like, in hard fact, there

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Speaker 1: are twenty books and I'm like.

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Speaker 2: Wow, how did you do that?

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Speaker 1: Because I've got posted notes and you know, everywhere of

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Speaker 1: like I'm going to do this project eventually and that

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Speaker 1: project eventually, And there's you know, fifty six begun but

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Speaker 1: not finished projects in my home. So I'm really like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: you're figuring out habits and like, I guess modalities of

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Speaker 1: making that are working for you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And it's funny. It takes so much self discipline

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Speaker 3: to sit down and write a book that I have

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Speaker 3: noticed I have no form of self discipline and any

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Speaker 3: other asset aspect of my life what like like diet sucks,

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Speaker 3: exercising sucks. We habits suck. But I kind of use

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Speaker 3: all all the self discipline that I'm capable of in

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Speaker 3: in writing and then and then everything else just kind

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Speaker 3: of uh, is this kind of a mess.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, that's so interesting. How do you think you

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Speaker 1: figured out how to create that discipline? Like for folks

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Speaker 1: at home that are like, oh my god, I'm the same.

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Speaker 1: Are there are there tricks to it? Are there like

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Speaker 1: two or three things you'd say, Oh, if you're trying

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Speaker 1: to create a routine of discipline to write or whatever

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Speaker 1: it might be, these things worked for me.

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, you know, it's interest because life is so

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Speaker 3: ever changing that I've never really had the opportunity to

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Speaker 3: actually come up with one, like one method that that works.

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Speaker 3: I really think it just it depends on where you

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Speaker 3: are in your life and what you're going through at

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Speaker 3: the time, and it changes, like I think my writing

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Speaker 3: process changes constantly depending on how much is going on

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Speaker 3: at the time. And I think you just have to

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Speaker 3: really really focus on how badly you want to finish it,

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Speaker 3: you know. I think you have to visualize the finished

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Speaker 3: book in your hands and what you know, and visualize

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Speaker 3: the people who who that story or that book could help.

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Speaker 3: That That always helps me is envisioning the people that

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Speaker 3: the story could benefit a lot. But you really you

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Speaker 3: have to take it day by day, and you have

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Speaker 3: you not be so hard on yourself, you know, just

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Speaker 3: have to have self discipline, but no be so hard

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Speaker 3: on yourself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's really good advice. And I think

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Speaker 1: the idea of focusing on the finished thing, like if

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Speaker 1: you continue to remind yourself that there is actually an

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Speaker 1: end goal, there will be a thing you can hold

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Speaker 1: in your hand, whether it's literal or metaphorical, that's a

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Speaker 1: great that's a great reminder because then it's not so amorphous.

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Speaker 3: And also just the that the finished product. Don't just

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Speaker 3: celebrate the finished product, like have little celebrations along the way,

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Speaker 3: like if you finish a chapter, treat yourself as you know,

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Speaker 3: relish in the fact that you finish a chapter, because

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Speaker 3: even if you just finish a chapter, you're still finishing

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Speaker 3: more than most people can't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that. Celebrate the wins and focus on

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Speaker 1: the goals. It's like a both and which is really

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Speaker 1: our job as actors too, you know. And it's it's

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Speaker 1: funny when you talk about the you know, the shifts,

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Speaker 1: and what I think I am hearing you talk about

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Speaker 1: is something that I am really conscious of lately, which

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Speaker 1: is that doing what we do as a day job,

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Speaker 1: it's virtually impossible to have a routine, Yeah, because sometimes

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Speaker 1: you're on night shoots and sometimes you're on splits, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes you're going to work at four in the morning,

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Speaker 1: and everything is by nature. You have to not be

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Speaker 1: rattled by the fact that you can't make any plans

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Speaker 1: or have any expectations about time.

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Speaker 2: So then when you're not on a set.

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Speaker 1: If it's hiatus or you're between shows or whatever it

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Speaker 1: might be, suddenly everyone's like, well, why don't you have

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Speaker 1: a routine And you're like, because I can't, and I

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Speaker 1: can't be attached to one, And it's a really it's

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Speaker 1: something I've definitely had to wrap my head around, and

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to practice some of what you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: which is not being so self critical about it, but

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Speaker 1: looking at the ability to be so flexible and present

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Speaker 1: as a little more of a superpower than a hindrance.

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Speaker 1: I think about it too, like when you start on

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Speaker 1: TV so young. You know, we had been twenty one

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Speaker 1: for I don't know, eight days when we started filming

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Speaker 1: Season one on One Tree Hill, and you were you

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Speaker 1: guys started in two thousand and nine, you know, the

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Speaker 1: early aughts. We like such a moment. What was that

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Speaker 1: like for you as as not the author artist but

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Speaker 1: the actor artist. What was that sort of time like

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Speaker 1: the audition process and the whole rigamarole of it. Was

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Speaker 1: it exciting? Was it terrifying? Was it both?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, It's funny you touched on something a second ago

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Speaker 3: that really made me think. Ever since Glee ended, I've

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Speaker 3: kind of been like a schedule nomad because it's been

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Speaker 3: I think it's been eight or so years since since

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Speaker 3: Lee ended, and I saw ten years like I can't.

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Speaker 3: I don't. I'm not sure time is much. You know,

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Speaker 3: time goes I know, time really goes by when you're

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Speaker 3: you know, having fun, I guess. But I still haven't

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Speaker 3: been able to develop like a routine in my personal

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Speaker 3: life because I had I spent a decade not having

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Speaker 3: any freedom soever. So that's that's so interesting you said that,

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Speaker 3: just that that just clicked for me. But yeah, I know,

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Speaker 3: it was a very the beginning of Lee was a

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Speaker 3: very grueling process. We I think we each had four auditions.

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Speaker 3: We had casting director, callbacks, network, and studio all in

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Speaker 3: all in a row. We had to sing and and

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Speaker 3: and and act in those auditions. It wasn't until we

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Speaker 3: all showed up for the first day of singing rehearsal

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Speaker 3: for the pilot that we realized that you have to

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Speaker 3: dance and show choir. And none of us had ever

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Speaker 3: danced before, and so that was a complete shock to

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Speaker 3: us and to our bodies because it wasn't even part

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Speaker 3: It was never part of the audition process and and

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Speaker 3: it was never written into the script. And when I

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Speaker 3: think of show choir, I think of like Sister Act two,

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Speaker 3: where where they they you know, the kind of step touch,

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Speaker 3: step touch, but it's really focused on on the singing part.

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Speaker 3: So having these so having to learn these huge choreographs

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Speaker 3: sequences was just so foreign to to most of us.

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Speaker 3: A few of us had been on Broadway and we're

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Speaker 3: you know, we're used to it, but for the most part,

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Speaker 3: it was like the first time any of us had

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Speaker 3: ever had to dance like that. So and I remember

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Speaker 3: when we uh the main song we did in the

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Speaker 3: pilot was Don't Stop Believing, and we had to learn

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Speaker 3: like I want to say, six or seven versions of

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Speaker 3: that song because because the producers just weren't happy with it,

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Speaker 3: and so so that was that was a really it

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Speaker 3: was it was it was a culture shock on many, many,

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Speaker 3: many levels. And then when we got into the filming,

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Speaker 3: you know, just just just the amount of material that

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Speaker 3: we had to learn, like like like just nothing, the

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Speaker 3: lyrics of the song, the vocal, the vocals of the song,

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Speaker 3: the dancing, the dance, the movement, the the the the

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Speaker 3: the dialogue. That it was just it was crazy. And

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Speaker 3: then and then and then it's like we never had

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Speaker 3: that like the yeah, we did it because as soon

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Speaker 3: as another episode. So it's like creating a new Broadway

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Speaker 3: show every single week.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, and now for our sponsors, it's so interesting,

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Speaker 1: Like the technical stuff you're referring to, I think so

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Speaker 1: many people just don't know about. You know, audiences get

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Speaker 1: to see this perfect hour of television that's edited in color,

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Speaker 1: timed and the music is synced beautifully, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the montages are gorgeous, and you're just like I nearly

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Speaker 1: died that week.

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Speaker 2: You know, nobody knows.

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Speaker 1: That you are on like our eighteen in a sound

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Speaker 1: stage with broken air conditioning, like trying not to pass out.

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Speaker 3: They never see like the of the costumers having to

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Speaker 3: to hair like with a hair dryer, like like dry

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Speaker 3: out our like our pit stains.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my gosh, you've shared something, because you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously I love to do my homework. And I read

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Speaker 1: that you talked about how you know your your creator

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Speaker 1: and writing team on that show would sometimes write real

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Speaker 1: stories from your life into the show. And we had

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Speaker 1: that too, And I realize, I don't know if that

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Speaker 1: is so common in shows that are you know, about

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Speaker 1: post school adults, but it does seem to be a

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Speaker 1: thing that happens a lot when you're making a show

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Speaker 1: about high school. Was that was that weird for you

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Speaker 1: guys or for you or or was it sort of

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Speaker 1: special to be able to portray things that felt really

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Speaker 1: truly important to your own kind of life and journey.

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Speaker 3: It was really fun, uh, First, because it meant that

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Speaker 3: I got for me. It meant I got to do

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Speaker 3: something on the show that I didn't get to do

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Speaker 3: in real life. The one that the instance that comes

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Speaker 3: to me right off the top of my head is

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Speaker 3: I actually I wanted to sing define Gravity so badly

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Speaker 3: in my school talent show when I was in high school,

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Speaker 3: and I was told, no, you're a boy, you can't

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Speaker 3: sing that song. And I was like, but I can

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Speaker 3: sing it. I actually physically can sing and they said, no,

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Speaker 3: it's a woman song, you're not singing it. And so

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Speaker 3: I told that to the producers and they wrote that

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Speaker 3: storyline into the show and so I actually got to

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Speaker 3: sing the song. So that that was That was a blast.

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Speaker 3: That was that was fun. But what I didn't realize

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Speaker 3: was when the audience found out that a lot of

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Speaker 3: these experiences that they were watching were autobiographical of us,

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Speaker 3: the separation between actor and character became non existent, and

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Speaker 3: that was that was probably The most challenging part of

402
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Speaker 3: Glee was having this huge having millions and millions and

403
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Speaker 3: millions of people think you were someone that you were not,

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Speaker 3: and and not recognizing that you were you were a

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Speaker 3: good actor that they just thought you were that person,

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Speaker 3: and having things from our own lives on show didn't

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Speaker 3: help establish that separation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that. Intimately, it's such a weird thing

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Speaker 1: because it is kind of a double edged sort. You

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Speaker 1: get to do these really special things, and then also

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Speaker 1: there is an assumption that one hundred percent of who

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Speaker 1: you are on screen is one hundred percent of you,

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Speaker 1: and it's so fractional. Even if you are recreating a

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Speaker 1: version of something that's happened to you in your real life,

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Speaker 1: what's on screen will always be such a small case

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Speaker 1: of like a full human experience. And so, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know that feeling, and I don't know, looking back on

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Speaker 1: it on my show, I realize how I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know I felt. You know, I just turned twenty one.

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Speaker 2: I was like, listen, I'm a legal drinking age. Look

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Speaker 2: at me out here. I'm a young adult.

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Speaker 3: And I look back.

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Speaker 1: Down, I'm like, oh my god, I was a baby. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like I was still such a little kid trying to

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Speaker 1: call play as a grown up. You were nineteen when

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Speaker 1: the show started, and I think every year when you're

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Speaker 1: a teenager into your early twenties is like five years

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Speaker 1: when you're you know, forty. Was it surreal for you?

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Speaker 1: Did you feel like you had to pretend to be

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Speaker 1: more grown up or expert than you were?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean, like our friendsal Lobes weren't fully developed yet. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and you know, like you said, cosplaying as an adult,

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Speaker 3: it's a great way to put it. And I remember

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Speaker 3: I really should have had a parent or someone with

435
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 3: me during during that too, a lot of that, and

436
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 3: I didn't because I, you know, in my eighteen year

437
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 3: old logic was like, no, I want to be taken seriously,

438
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 3: and no one will take it seriously if I have

439
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 3: a mom or a dad hanging out with me. And

440
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 3: I really wish I did, because I think income I

441
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 3: would have handled and processed things a lot easier if

442
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 3: I had someone with a little more maturity with me

443
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 3: at all times.

444
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: Totally. I think about it, especially with shows like ours

445
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 1: that were set in high schools, and I'm like, high

446
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: schools have guidance counselors. Why isn't there. You know, now

447
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: we're finally at this moment where we're talking about intimacy

448
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: coordinators and more professional practice on set with regards to

449
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: how we feel in our physical bodies. But I'm like,

450
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: what about like our our mental health. Yeah, Like I

451
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: wish that TV shows that were surrounding high school and

452
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: that had such young actors on them had to have

453
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: a version of a of a real life guidance counselor

454
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 1: on set.

455
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, I feel like I think they do that

456
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 3: for for like some some reality competition shows. Really Okay,

457
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 3: I believe I read someone where like the American Idol

458
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 3: Kids and and like the Voice contestants, like they have

459
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 3: like people to help them go from you know, obscurity

460
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 3: to sensationalism overnight. But yeah, we didn't. I guess because

461
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 3: it's scripted, they didn't think we needed it. But I do.

462
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 3: I really think that's a great idea.

463
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

464
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: I think it would be so cool just to have

465
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: somebody help you make sense of things.

466
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think I think everyone, every child star, teenage

467
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 3: star absolutely should have a therapist. Even if you are

468
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 3: very very well adjusted and you have a great support system,

469
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 3: it's so good just to go and you have to

470
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 3: go look under the hood every now and then.

471
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. You know, when we talk about how

472
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: hard it is to have a routine, I think the

473
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: inability to do so when you're working on TV is

474
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: what made me always sort of put therapy on the

475
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: back burner, like I dip in and then I dip out.

476
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: Work would be busy, I'd be like, oh, I just.

477
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: Don't have time. And it for the last couple of years,

478
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: like truly the last two years straight. It is a

479
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: non negotiable, like Tuesday at nine am is my time.

480
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: It's my hour and when I have to be on set.

481
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: Luckily the professional that I work with now we have

482
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: like a flexibility system, but it is it's just like

483
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: once a week I have that hour. It's my thing,

484
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: and it is wild to be like wow, it took

485
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: me almost until my forties to like take it seriously enough.

486
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: It would have been really great to have had in

487
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: my early twenties for sure.

488
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 3: And I don't understand people who don't believe in therapy.

489
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: I mean, like I love it, like like you just

490
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 3: you get an hour where you just get to talk

491
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: about yourself NonStop and they can't leave. I mean it's great.

492
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: I mean, who wouldn't want that?

493
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: Well, it's also like we've gotten so good about understanding

494
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: whether we actually do it or not. You know, you

495
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: need to take care of yourself. Your physical body needs

496
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: to move, like your brain needs care too. An hour

497
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 1: a week to take care of your brain actually doesn't

498
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: feel like that much when you think about it that way.

499
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: So I'm with you, I'm all in. Did you start

500
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: any kind of like mental health care practice toward the

501
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: end of Glee or did it take you until that

502
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: was like fully done to begin to create that space

503
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: for yourself?

504
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 3: You know it was really Unfortunately I wish I wish

505
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 3: I had started it right off the bat. It was

506
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 3: when I first started getting death threats that I started

507
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 3: going in, But unfortunately took that for me to realize, Oh,

508
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 3: I can't handle everything you said I was. I was.

509
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 3: I was eighteen when when the show started, and and I,

510
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 3: as an eighteen year old, thought thought I thought I

511
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 3: knew everything, thought I could handle everything that I thought

512
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 3: I was. You know, thought I was, And I mean,

513
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: to my credit, I was. I've always been very I've

514
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 3: always been an old soul. But even old souls can't

515
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 3: handle everything especially things that are completely foreign to them.

516
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 3: So I wish I had started much earlier, but I

517
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 3: did start, and once I started, it was it was

518
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 3: it was a major, major help.

519
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: That's really great. I'm glad to hear that it is.

520
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: It is very strange, and having been through versions of

521
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: that myself, like it took me a while to understand

522
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: that unless it's happened to you, you just can't understand

523
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: how traumatic it is, and that no matter what happens

524
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: in your career, you don't change. You remain one person.

525
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: But what's on the other end of the funnel continues

526
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: to grow and grow and grow. And there are wonderful

527
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: parts of that, like look at this career you have

528
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: as an author and all this other exciting work you

529
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: get to do. But to be on the receiving end

530
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: of the energy of millions and millions of people when

531
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: sometimes there's a large section of those people that are

532
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: you know, violent or scary. You're like the people who

533
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: read my books and want to talk about like kids

534
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: saving the world are pretty great.

535
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 2: But the other end of the spectrum.

536
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: Like, ah, right, you know, it's tough. Do you think

537
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: part of what made that feel? I mean, as intense

538
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: as it is for you. But part of what made

539
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: that journey so enormous because you might you know, you

540
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: grew up in a conservative environment. You were figuring out

541
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: you were gay as a young kid, but you weren't

542
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: like out out yet right when the show started and

543
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: then and then your character was having this journey. Did

544
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: that feel freeing for you in a way or scary

545
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: or maybe also a mix of both.

546
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 3: Oh, it was terrifying, guess because I think because I

547
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 3: knew that it would make me, it would force me

548
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 3: to look into myself in places that I wasn't ready

549
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 3: to look into. And I mean, I knew very well

550
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 3: how dangerous it was to to to be young and

551
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: gay from my surroundings, uh as a kid, and to

552
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 3: go from that to a global uh stage was it

553
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 3: was terrifying. But I have no idea what came over me,

554
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 3: But I just I really I'd like to think that

555
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 3: I rose to the occasion. And I'll never forget. We

556
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 3: were on a hot topic signing tour right before the

557
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 3: show came out to promote the show. This little boye

558
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 3: like like slid when his parents weren't looking slid this

559
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: like this envelope to me and there was a little

560
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 3: handwritten note in it that just said thank you, and

561
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 3: he created a like a chain out of paper clips

562
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 3: in the colors of the rainbow. It was in that

563
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: moment I knew, like, I I have to I have

564
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 3: to come out and I have to be honest because

565
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 3: because because because kids like that need need someone to

566
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 3: look look to. And it was it was never a

567
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 3: role that I planned on on on on a taking on,

568
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 3: but I just I just knew I needed to.

569
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's the thing, Like, visibility can change everything

570
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: for people. And one of the things I think I've

571
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: realized is that the more myself I am, the more

572
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:56,239
Speaker 1: yourself you are, the the more space you have to

573
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: help other people be themselves. And we are in these

574
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: constant states of becoming. And so if if by modeling

575
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: or being courageous about your becoming, someone following in your footsteps,

576
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: you know who's on that same life path as you

577
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: can say, oh I'm gonna be okay, Oh I can

578
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: do that, I can achieve that. You know, that's really

579
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: really beautiful.

580
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, it's kind of like the whole

581
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 3: point of I guess life really is just you know,

582
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 3: making life a little easier for the next generation. And

583
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 3: I think Glee put me in a position that I

584
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 3: got to do that. And what an honor and privilege

585
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 3: because not everyone gets skits that opportunity.

586
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors that I

587
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: really enjoy and I think you will too.

588
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 4: Hey, friends, I'm Jessica Capshaw and this is Camilla Luddington

589
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 4: and we have a new podcast, call It what it Is.

590
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 4: You may know us from Gracelawn Memorial, but did you

591
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 4: know that we are actually besties in life.

592
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 5: And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and

593
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 5: lows of life together. When one of us sends out

594
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 5: the distress signal, the other one always answers the call,

595
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 5: big or small, we are there.

596
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 4: And what does that look like? A thousand pep talks

597
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 4: a million. I've got yous, some very urgent I'm coming.

598
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 5: Overs laughter through tears, no judgment, problem solving over glasses

599
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 5: of rose. Sometimes it takes tequila.

600
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: Because I don't know.

601
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 4: Let's face it, life can get even crazier than a

602
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 4: season finale of Gray's Anatomy.

603
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 5: And now here we are opening up the friendship circle

604
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 5: to you.

605
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 4: Someone's cheating.

606
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 5: We've got you on that in laws or inline, let's

607
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 5: get into.

608
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 4: It, toxic friendship, air it out. We're on your side

609
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 4: to help you with your concerns, talk about ours, and

610
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 4: every once in a while bring on an awesome guest

611
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 4: to get their take on the things that you bring us.

612
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 5: While we may be un license to advise, we're gonna

613
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 5: do it anyway.

614
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 4: Listen to call it what it is starting June third

615
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 4: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get

616
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 4: your podcasts.

617
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 1: How did you know, because obviously you know, we're talking

618
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: about book twenty and I want to get into some

619
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 1: of the details about.

620
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: Roswell Johnson saving the world.

621
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: But you you wrote your first book while you were

622
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 1: still shooting Glee, right, How did you do that?

623
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 3: You know? I think very much. It offered me a

624
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 3: great way to escape some of the challenges of shooting.

625
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 1: That show, like an outlet for your energy.

626
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and especially like when because it was a very

627
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 3: grueling shoot. Uh. You know, we worked eighty hour weeks,

628
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 3: non stop, up and down, singing, dancing, and even even

629
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 3: on our days off on the weekends, we'd have to

630
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 3: go in and record and rehearse. Yeah, person and all

631
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 3: of that so it really helped my sanity, having just

632
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 3: something else to focus my my tension on. Uh uh holy.

633
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 3: And I remember, like, even like when we went on

634
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 3: like the the world tour of Glee, I would show

635
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: up at the stadiums a few hours earlier than everyone else,

636
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 3: and I would I would sit underneath the stage because

637
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 3: it was the only place that was quiet, and I

638
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: would and I would write. And just having having that

639
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 3: that escape really I think helped my sanity so much

640
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 3: through that whole, that whole, that whole period of time.

641
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: That's so incredible. And and the fact that you had

642
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: the wherewithal to care for yourself in such a healthy

643
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: and productive way amazes me.

644
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 3: You know, I didn't realize. I didn't realize it was

645
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 3: healthier productive because because it was.

646
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 4: It was.

647
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 3: I mean, it wasn't It wasn't easy. It was it

648
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 3: was tough to write a book regardless, and and it

649
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 3: was really tough to find time to write it. But

650
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 3: now looking back, I realized how like how much that

651
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 3: saved me.

652
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: It's so cool. I'm like, wow, the thing that I

653
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: wind up doing when I'm doing eighty hour weeks and

654
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: I like can't sleep when I first get home as

655
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: I started designing houses I don't own on Pinterest.

656
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 2: Oh, and I'm like, huh.

657
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: I mean my Pinterest words are great. By the way,

658
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: anyone who's ever like moving I help them with their space.

659
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: But I'm like, interesting that there's just these like eighty

660
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: seven made up homes in a secret internet file. There

661
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 1: are not there are not twenty books. How tell me

662
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: about Roswell? Because I I am such a space baby,

663
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: Like all I ever want to do is watch cartoons

664
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: about space and read about space. There's something about like

665
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: kids books that center on it that are my very

666
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: favorite thing. And I want to know everything about Roswell Johnson.

667
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: I want to know where these obsessions with conspiracies and

668
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial life came from. Give me and our friends at

669
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: home the full rundown.

670
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,479
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, where do I begin. Well, it sounds

671
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 3: like we're cut from same cloth. So that's fine. That'll

672
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 3: make a fuck to you. I have, oh similar. I

673
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 3: have been fascinated with space and our galaxy, our universe. Uh,

674
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 3: for as long as I can remember and and cannot

675
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,479
Speaker 3: get enough. I mean, I watch every documentary, I read

676
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 3: every book. I I just I'm obsessed and I'm obsessed

677
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,240
Speaker 3: with the idea of alien life because to me, alien

678
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 3: life is always represented possibility and progress and unity because

679
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 3: I mean, for for beings to have that kind of

680
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 3: technology and have those those those vessels that can move

681
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 3: like they do, if if they exist, it would take

682
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 3: an incredible amount of uh of camaraderie and unity and sources.

683
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 3: So that means that maybe somewhere in this universe there's

684
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 3: a planet that got it right, that that that come

685
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 3: together and be together and and bond over one common goal.

686
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 3: So I love that. That's that's what aliens have always

687
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 3: represented to me, and I I just thought it would

688
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 3: be a great world to a book in. And I

689
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 3: started fantasizing about writing this series about halfway through when

690
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 3: I was writing the Lamb story series, and I was

691
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 3: planning on writing this right after the Lamb Stories, but

692
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 3: my publisher persuaded me to write a prequel series instead,

693
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 3: so I wrote the Tale of Magic series in between

694
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 3: the Lamb Stories. In this one. So this has been

695
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 3: in my head for a very long time, That's what

696
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 3: I was.

697
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: Going to say. You've had so long to really let

698
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: this marinate.

699
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I don't know, like I've always had

700
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 3: this like this just just drive to tell some sort

701
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 3: of alien story. And I've pitched so many shows about

702
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 3: aliens and about the Indigo children, and and and so,

703
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's been a passion of mine just

704
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 3: to get a story out there about about aliens and

705
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: and get a story out there that maybe hopefully makes

706
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 3: people less scared of them. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully that's what

707
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 3: this does. But this is a This book is about

708
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,479
Speaker 3: a little boy who accidentally gets subducted by aliens and

709
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 3: while he's up in Spain, finds out or uncovers this

710
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 3: evil plot to destroy Earth. And so he teams up

711
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 3: with a bunch of quirky aliens and together they they

712
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 3: fight to save Earth, and along the way, Roswell, the

713
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 3: main character, regains his faith in humanity and the world.

714
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: I love that realizes the world's worth saving.

715
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 3: He realizes the world is worth saving, right, And when

716
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 3: we meet him in the beginning, he's not invinced. He

717
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 3: he goes through one of his first experiences of racism,

718
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 3: so he's very very down and very very I'm depressed.

719
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 3: But after an adventure through space that that whoops him

720
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 3: back into shade.

721
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it so well, how how

722
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: many books do you envision being in this series?

723
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 3: I think four. It really just depends if people hate it,

724
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 3: maybe not for it. That's always that's always a deciding

725
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 3: factor because you have to think, like how many things

726
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 3: can he save? You know, he can save the world,

727
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 3: he can save the Solar System, you can save the galaxy.

728
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 3: Then he can save the universe, and after that there's

729
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 3: not much left to save you. But yes, so I think,

730
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 3: I think, I think, I think, uh, I think four

731
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 3: would be would be a good number to tell.

732
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: The story that feels really exciting. Not that I imagine

733
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: you have any more time, because look at all of

734
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: what you're doing, but you you are such a gifted

735
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 1: musician and worse, Oh my god, right, well it's so funny,

736
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: Like I just met the sweetest gal the other day

737
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: and she was like, I'm such a fan and sorry

738
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: that's probably so annoying, and I was like, I'll take

739
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: I'm such a fan over. I absolutely hate everything you

740
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:42,720
Speaker 1: do right.

741
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 2: Any day, it's so nice, don't stress.

742
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: We were giggling. It was like it was very very funny.

743
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: But I'm such a fan of your music and you're

744
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: singing and and you know you earlier you mentioned that

745
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: some of you guys you know, on the cast of

746
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: your first show came from Broadway, and I know you

747
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 1: re performed with our dear work in progress sister friend

748
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: Dylan mulvaney, just a gorgeous Broadway baby. Like, do you

749
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: when you sort of think about, Okay, you're going to

750
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: work on this series and you're launching this first book

751
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 1: in the series now, and you look at the future

752
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: landscape of your creative endeavors, do you maybe want to

753
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: go back to Broadway? Are you going to make more music?

754
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 3: What do you think?

755
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: I don't know.

756
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 3: I mean, for me, singing has always just been It's

757
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 3: been a tool, not a not a passion interesting. But

758
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 3: I think I would love to do Broadway some someday.

759
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 3: I don't know if I could do it in the

760
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 3: in the foreseeable future, but I would like to do

761
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 3: it someday just just for the experience. And I would

762
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 3: I would really love to be like in like a

763
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 3: big like ensemble play at first, and that would be

764
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 3: a great segue into into that world. Gosh, but in music,

765
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 3: like you know, I always say my doing thing for music,

766
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 3: but then I always get asked to sing places, So

767
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 3: I'm sure I'll get roped into some of their charity

768
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 3: event or or you know, I'm sure Jalan will make

769
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 3: me sing again with her.

770
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 1: I would love it. I'm I'm firmly on team Chris

771
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: goes to Broadway. So you just keep me posted on

772
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: what the plan is.

773
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:19,399
Speaker 3: Thanks.

774
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: I will when we talk about you know, because you're

775
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: you're writing these wonderful young adult books and giving kids

776
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: these spaces to dream and escape and be creative and

777
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: all of this creative energy performing, singing, writing is something

778
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: that you always needed and wanted to pursue. Is there

779
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: from where you sit now, is there advice that you

780
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: would give to a young kid kind of in that

781
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: you know, eight to twelve demographic, maybe about pursuing creativity

782
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: or you know, starting in this industry or or any

783
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: of the others that surround it.

784
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I would say, dream as big as possible, but

785
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 3: also dream as broad as possible. Don't dream specifically, because

786
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 3: this industry is so uh what's the word unreliable? Uh

787
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 3: it's so unpredictable. Uh. The more specific you dream, I think,

788
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 3: the more disappointment you you will you will have. Don't

789
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 3: give yourself, you know, don't give yourself like deadlines like

790
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 3: I have to do this by this age, or I

791
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 3: have to do this by this certain time, or if

792
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 3: I do this, it has to be this specific thing.

793
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 3: You know. Really, just say to yourself, I want to

794
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 3: I want to do this, this, this, and this in

795
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 3: my lifetime, and then just be open, be as open

796
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 3: as you possibly can to uh, whatever comes your way.

797
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that so much. That's phenomenal advice.

798
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 1: So from this place, you know, a top this pile

799
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: of books that you've written and published, uh, and and

800
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: everything that you've done so far and the things that

801
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: you will do when you kind of take stock, what

802
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,439
Speaker 1: feels like you are work in progress right now?

803
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that's a great question. I feel like

804
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 3: I have so many answers.

805
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: You can say, and as many as you want.

806
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 3: I think taking it in is the ultimate work and

807
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 3: progress for me, because I always always feel like a

808
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 3: failure and it doesn't matter how much I accomplish, it

809
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 3: doesn't matter, you know, like like like like like the

810
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 3: reviews for my new book came out and they were

811
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 3: all they were all really great reviews, and I can't

812
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,479
Speaker 3: accept that for some reason. I just I can only

813
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 3: accept accept like negatives sometimes and so I think, yeah,

814
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 3: for me, the ultimate work in progress is just take

815
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 3: you step back and accepting the positivity. Does that make sense?

816
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, it totally does. It totally does.

817
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 3: Like, like I you know, I hear from LGBT kids

818
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 3: around the world every single day. I've gotten a thousand

819
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 3: messages a week since the show started fifteen years ago,

820
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 3: and I love it and I feel so I'm so

821
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 3: proud of that, but there is part of me that

822
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 3: just cannot accept it as reality, Like like, I don't know,

823
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 3: there's just like this and I don't know what it is,

824
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 3: but there's there's just this I don't know if it's

825
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 3: like like a false sense of protection for myself or what,

826
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 3: but there is a there's a block where I can't

827
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 3: I can't let it in all the way.

828
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:47,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally understand that. It's actually really interesting because

829
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: one of the things I've been learning about ADHD and

830
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: like us, you know, sparkly neurospicy folks, is like there

831
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: is an immediate desire when someone shares something to be

832
00:45:58,680 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: like I.

833
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 2: Understand that because like here's my.

834
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 1: Experience with that, and that some folks whose brains aren't

835
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: like ours are like, well, it's not about you right now,

836
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: and you're like, no, I'm.

837
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 2: Trying to empathize with you. Like I'm telling you, I

838
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: literally know how you feel.

839
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:14,959
Speaker 1: So it's interesting because I can track it, and I'm like, oh, yeah,

840
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: I want to be like exactly, I feel that exactly.

841
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's brain chemistry. I don't

842
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: know if it's the toughness of being an artist that

843
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: makes you a little prepared for the worst always, but

844
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: I really struggle with the same and yeah, for some reason,

845
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: the successes don't matter, but like the one failure is forever,

846
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: and I think to begin to see that a little

847
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: bit differently. I had a really impactful experience years ago

848
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: that I talked about a lot with a coworker. I

849
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: was like having one of those days where I was

850
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: really just like ragging on myself and I was sitting

851
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 1: in a chair and she spun my chair around and

852
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: grabbed me by the shoulders and she said, watch your mouth.

853
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:00,879
Speaker 1: You're talking about my best friend like that.

854
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 6: Oh, And I was like, oh shit, Well, like, oh oh,

855
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 6: because I would never allow somebody to talk about my

856
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 6: best friend.

857
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll talk about myself or to refuse to let

858
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 1: her relish in her accomplishments. And if she were to

859
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: say to me, yeah, but I haven't done pill in

860
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 1: the blank, I'd be like, so, look at everything you

861
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: have done, and all we have is more time. As

862
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: long as we're so lucky to not get hit by

863
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,760
Speaker 1: a bus tomorrow, we have plenty of time. We'll achieve

864
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: that shit like all in due time. You know you

865
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: just you gave the advice to a stranger just a

866
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 1: minute ago, like, don't set timelines for yourself, just have

867
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: the goal, give yourself a lifetime. And so I wonder

868
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: if there's something in that to be like, oh right,

869
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 1: I like my wish for you would be that you

870
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 1: get to go oh, I do deserve to feel as

871
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 1: good about what I'm doing as I would want my

872
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 1: best friend to feel about what they're doing.

873
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's also for me. It's also a perfectionism issue,

874
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 3: like like, for some reason, I don't know where I

875
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 3: picked this up, but if it isn't perfect, it doesn't matter.

876
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 3: It's not a value. Look, I was just on the

877
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 3: view a few hours ago, and it was it was

878
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 3: a great It was a great interview. Everyone was everyone

879
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 3: was so kind and I got to tell fun stories

880
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 3: and I and I walked off that stage and I

881
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 3: was just like, I failed. I failed. It was it was,

882
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 3: it wasn't perfect, therefore therefore it doesn't matter.

883
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: I interviewed Julian Huff years ago, like when I think

884
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: about my friends that are like triple threats like you,

885
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: and she talked a lot about learning perfectionism in the

886
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: ballroom world and how perfectionism is like essentially a mental

887
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: death sentence because perfect doesn't exist. So when you're a perfectionist,

888
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: you set yourself up to fail all the time. And

889
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I feel attacked, my god. And

890
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: I do think there's something about like, in an industry

891
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: like ours, nobody wants you to get too confident, and

892
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: they certainly don't want you to get too expensive. And

893
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: then there's this perspective from the outside that if you're

894
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: in this industry, everything must be so easy for you.

895
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: So it's just like constant criticism. And I wonder if

896
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: the propensity to self criticize, like you said, is a

897
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: defense mechanism. Well, if I say I failed first, you

898
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 1: can't tell me anything I don't already know. And it's

899
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: like I hate that for us so I don't know,

900
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. I think vocalizing and naming, letting the

901
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,399
Speaker 1: good in as a work in progress is a really

902
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: that's beautiful, and I know that's important to you, and

903
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: it's important to me, and it's probably really important to

904
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:52,439
Speaker 1: a lot of people listening today too. Thank you, yeah,

905
00:49:52,520 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: thank you.

906
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 3: Oh,