Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Well, and what companies are
Speaker 1: seeing and saying and deciding is going to rest largely
Speaker 1: on the medical side of this. We have been very,
Speaker 1: very fortunate over the past few weeks to interview a
Speaker 1: number of people, have conversations with the number of folks
Speaker 1: at the Providend St. Joseph Health System. Dr Rod Hawkman
Speaker 1: uh is the president and CEO of that system. He
Speaker 1: joins us on the phone from Seattle. Dr Hawkman, Really
Speaker 1: nice to have you here with Caroline myself. Oh great
Speaker 1: to be with you. And can we just say your
Speaker 1: team is incredible, Jason, Jason said it right off the top.
Speaker 1: I mean they have really from the get go. When
Speaker 1: we were still working in our offices, we were talking
Speaker 1: to your team and they really helped kind of set
Speaker 1: the stage, made us have a much clearer understanding of
Speaker 1: what you guys were dealing with and what you know
Speaker 1: now we all know would eventually, you know, move to
Speaker 1: some of the hot spots around the country. So we
Speaker 1: thank you for that and really thank you so much
Speaker 1: so help us understand where we are because you know,
Speaker 1: One of the benefits of you guys being on the
Speaker 1: front lines as you were, and as Carol said, you know,
Speaker 1: unfortunately as it has moved eastward in many ways, is
Speaker 1: we're learning a lot from talking to you and your team.
Speaker 1: Give us a reality check, because this is a virus
Speaker 1: that knows no borders. Uh. This is also a virus
Speaker 1: that is not moving in any really predictable way, at
Speaker 1: least in terms of kind of where it keeps popping up.
Speaker 1: What's the reality check here for us? Dr Sure, so
Speaker 1: that you know the thing that we had. We were
Speaker 1: lucky enough, I guess, because we have the first case
Speaker 1: January twenty one in h Washington State, and that put
Speaker 1: us on the alarm because we knew once we have
Speaker 1: that case, this this is going to spread. And of
Speaker 1: course we had the Kirkland Nursing Home and then more
Speaker 1: and more. But I think we have to understand. I'm
Speaker 1: also an in and alogist by training, that was my degree.
Speaker 1: So this this virus has been out and around and
Speaker 1: it's not like it just pops up somewhere. So what
Speaker 1: we're finding out a lot of asymptomatic cases, relatively mild cases.
Speaker 1: So what we really think it's not like this thing
Speaker 1: is just kind of spreading from one town to the next.
Speaker 1: That in a lot of cases that's there and then
Speaker 1: what happens the people get together or it you know,
Speaker 1: it breaks out in the nursing home and then you
Speaker 1: have a flare and it's up. So a lot of
Speaker 1: us believe a lot of this has been out and
Speaker 1: around us for a lot longer than we really believe
Speaker 1: it to be. The good news for us is that
Speaker 1: we've been at it longer, and we stayed pretty pretty
Speaker 1: hard on social distancing, so we're really starting to see
Speaker 1: not only we're starting to see the real decrease in
Speaker 1: the number of cases things are opening up, and actually
Speaker 1: some of our hostiles are half empty because we stopped
Speaker 1: a lot of elective surgery and whatnot, and we're actually
Speaker 1: trying to think, how do we turn this back on
Speaker 1: carefully and what do we do next? So what you're
Speaker 1: going to see around the rest of the country, and
Speaker 1: are these what people would say, are what seem like outbreak,
Speaker 1: but there's kind of be flares in cases that are there,
Speaker 1: and it takes a while. Both ways, you did on
Speaker 1: top of it, and i'd say more there a little
Speaker 1: later on getting on top of it, and particularly in
Speaker 1: densely populated areas. You know, it has a tendency obviously
Speaker 1: to spread a lot easier than it does in a
Speaker 1: less dense settings. So I need we want to ask you,
Speaker 1: you know, Dr Hawkman, you know, what does coming out
Speaker 1: of this look like? And I know there's a bunch
Speaker 1: of steps and we'll get into that, but what does
Speaker 1: coming out of this look like? In your view? It's
Speaker 1: gonna look so like people start out waves after what's
Speaker 1: the second waves look like. I think it's more akin
Speaker 1: to ripples that we're going to see. So we're going
Speaker 1: to have to live within Spyrus as long. I hate
Speaker 1: to say it until we have a vaccine, but I
Speaker 1: think we can get into a better relationship with it
Speaker 1: and be able to manage and control it better. Obviously,
Speaker 1: as more people in the community have been exposed have
Speaker 1: some level of immunity, we've it better at testing and
Speaker 1: then you bring things back. But we're going to have
Speaker 1: and we should expect in places like Washington or California
Speaker 1: or other places that there will be these little ripples
Speaker 1: that occur where there'll be in some cases that breakout.
Speaker 1: We've got to you know, that's where the isolation. Getting
Speaker 1: on top of it early really makes sense. But we'll
Speaker 1: have that. We're gonna have to live with that. I
Speaker 1: have to say through the end of the year. Now
Speaker 1: is it compatible? You know, we live in a real
Speaker 1: tech community. So following Amazon, Microsoft, we're all talking about
Speaker 1: how to get people back to work and be able
Speaker 1: to do that safely. And we think we can we
Speaker 1: can gradually open that up, but we aren't gonna have
Speaker 1: We're not going to see the end of the COVID nineteam,
Speaker 1: but it'll be a lot more. It'll be easier to
Speaker 1: control it, easier to to to diagnose it. And how
Speaker 1: much do we worry about her or how should we
Speaker 1: be thinking? Uh Dr Hawkman and and obviously a lot
Speaker 1: of this is unknowable, but just our day to day
Speaker 1: live lives. Once it gets back to some measure of
Speaker 1: normal in that period where we don't have a vaccine,
Speaker 1: where isolation has to happen, what does sort of day
Speaker 1: to day social distancing look like if we're actually out
Speaker 1: in the world. It's one thing to sort of essentially
Speaker 1: be in your house, be with your family, but if
Speaker 1: you're going to work, if you're doing certain things, what
Speaker 1: what's the responsible way that we should think about living.
Speaker 1: So we have let's hoell, you have a business as
Speaker 1: a hundred of people in an office, or you've got
Speaker 1: a construction site. You know, those are relatively self contained,
Speaker 1: so you're pretty much with that group of people for
Speaker 1: the day and then you come home. Those are a
Speaker 1: little easier. In the perfect world that you'd love to
Speaker 1: do is be able to COVID test everyone beforelet me
Speaker 1: go back to work. Know that the all COVID nineteen negatives,
Speaker 1: and those are actually pretty controlled settings. So office setting
Speaker 1: or news froom setting, or construction site, you know, those
Speaker 1: those gets there. There's some of the trickier ones tend
Speaker 1: to be places there's a lot of contact with the public.
Speaker 1: But let's face it, today, our grocery stores that are open,
Speaker 1: we're able to manage that. So some of those things
Speaker 1: that we're doing with masking and some distance between people,
Speaker 1: not getting a big crowd of folks together will be
Speaker 1: the way we manage it. So it's ask me, when's
Speaker 1: the next time we're going to get three hundred people
Speaker 1: together in an auditorium. I don't see that happening for
Speaker 1: a real long while. You know, that's not going to happen,
Speaker 1: but people in a work setting where they can kind
Speaker 1: of keep reasonable hygiene distance potentially masking, uh, construction sites
Speaker 1: and retail, you know, particularly small detail starting to get
Speaker 1: small retail back where you just use common sense in
Speaker 1: terms of how you do it. And I think we
Speaker 1: have to be more ubiquitous with with masking. That will
Speaker 1: be part of what we're gonna deal with because it's
Speaker 1: not going to stop it, but they'll keep it control.
Speaker 1: Right now, our guest, Dr Rod Hawkman, he is President
Speaker 1: and chief executive officer Providence Joseph Health, on the phone
Speaker 1: from Seattle, Washington. As you know from our loyal listeners,
Speaker 1: this hospital is part of a massive uh ST Joseph
Speaker 1: Health system. It's about dollar system. It's fifty one hospital,
Speaker 1: seven states, UM, eight hundred clinics caregivers, So it's massive um.
Speaker 1: Dr Hawkman. So we were talking about kind of life
Speaker 1: after the virus and you said you don't see large
Speaker 1: groups gathering for a long time. Two questions, what's a
Speaker 1: long time? And so things like sports, concerts, um, kids
Speaker 1: going to college, Uh, you know, pick your thing, commuting,
Speaker 1: Like how do we you know, what are the events
Speaker 1: we can do? What are the events we can't. You
Speaker 1: talked about office settings probably work, but I'd love more
Speaker 1: specifics you're thinking, because it's a really informed thinking. Sure.
Speaker 1: So I've had a whole bunch of university presidents call
Speaker 1: me and say, Okay, can I get my kids back
Speaker 1: in September? And if we do, how do we do it?
Speaker 1: So we have good discussions about that. I said, when
Speaker 1: the kids, If you can get the kids back, which
Speaker 1: I think I think you can, it's preferably love to
Speaker 1: test them before they come back to campus and have
Speaker 1: as much information knowing that they're healthy coming back. And
Speaker 1: then in in the you know, you're not gonna have
Speaker 1: a lecture hall with three hundred people in it, but
Speaker 1: you could have smaller classrooms with some spread and probably
Speaker 1: do learning that's a combination of virtual and in place learning.
Speaker 1: Uh So, kind of mapping that out and making sure
Speaker 1: to do it. So I think there's really some hope
Speaker 1: for universities because you can manage the population, manage the setting.
Speaker 1: I think in terms of large gatherings, you know, concerts,
Speaker 1: a lot of folks that have theaters in Seattle, it said,
Speaker 1: when can we get back to what we're doing? It's
Speaker 1: just gonna be hard to see unless we have a
Speaker 1: better control on what this looks like getting two hundred,
Speaker 1: fifty or three hundred people in the same room. So
Speaker 1: for sporting events, I kind of think we're all going
Speaker 1: to learn to love golf a lot, and the question
Speaker 1: is whether you can do You can do some pro
Speaker 1: sports maybe without a large crowd. You know, that's control,
Speaker 1: but at least you can watch it on TV. So
Speaker 1: that's some of the ways thinking in terms of that.
Speaker 1: The good news is is that every week that goes
Speaker 1: by we learn more. So Alaska's really opening up. We're
Speaker 1: going to start opening up, and I think we'll learn
Speaker 1: a lot by what happens. So every week or month
Speaker 1: that goes by, we'll get smarter about it and be
Speaker 1: able to kind of refine some of those predictions that
Speaker 1: are out there. But right now, if you ask me
Speaker 1: that's that would be off the top quick. Did you
Speaker 1: say so, I'm sorry forgive me. Did you give us
Speaker 1: a time frame for when we can kind of get
Speaker 1: back to normal large groups? Is that a year away? Well,
Speaker 1: I think when when you're talking large groups like seeing
Speaker 1: you know, in our place, the Seahawks or the Mariners
Speaker 1: are doing that I gotta believe that we're not going
Speaker 1: to feel comfortable with that till we have a vaccine.
Speaker 1: And then the question on the vaccine, and you know,
Speaker 1: there's so much noise out there. I kind of laugh
Speaker 1: when I hear it. You know, there's at least fifteen
Speaker 1: different companies working on vaccines, and part of it's working
Speaker 1: on there's some newer vaccine technology that uses Messenger R
Speaker 1: and A that might give us a vaccine faster than
Speaker 1: some of the others. You know, we're going to see
Speaker 1: how that is, because we've got to get better at
Speaker 1: getting vaccine faster than saying a year, a year and
Speaker 1: a half. So that's what I'm looking towards. The best
Speaker 1: estimates are, you know, our December January, and then you'd
Speaker 1: start by vaccinating your caregivers and you know, kind of
Speaker 1: roll it out from there. But that's that's why conventional
Speaker 1: wisdom right now. So Dr Hagman, I have a fairly
Speaker 1: simple question that opens up a larger discussion, and unfortunately
Speaker 1: only have about a minute a half, which is should
Speaker 1: I go for my annual check up? Like what what
Speaker 1: should I be doing at this point when it comes
Speaker 1: to normal healthcare? Well, you got to know what's on
Speaker 1: the list, and this is what really has a story,
Speaker 1: and a lot of health kiss being put off. We've
Speaker 1: seen about half the number of strokes and heart attacks
Speaker 1: that we saw last year. We don't know that all
Speaker 1: of a sudden the whole country has gotten really healthy,
Speaker 1: that's not it. So we think a lot of people
Speaker 1: are putting things off. So I would look down the
Speaker 1: list of what you know if you're being treated for
Speaker 1: a chronic condition. Some of it. We've been doing thirteen
Speaker 1: thousand virtual visits a day with our patients, so it's
Speaker 1: also a good way to see if that's available. So
Speaker 1: at least you could do a virtual visit check in
Speaker 1: which a practitioner and then see, you know, what kind
Speaker 1: of testing you need or something to be put off.
Speaker 1: But I would check in and see if you can
Speaker 1: at least do a virtual visit for starters. Interesting. Interesting,
Speaker 1: How worried are you and now only have about thirty seconds?
Speaker 1: How worried are you that you know you're gonna have
Speaker 1: some real disruption in your business financially over the next
Speaker 1: year or so? I wish it was next year. I'm
Speaker 1: looking at the May financials looks like so I'm the
Speaker 1: chair and like the American Hospital Association, so we're there.
Speaker 1: We're just on a call today with folks around the country.
Speaker 1: We're really concerned about the hit the whole healthcare system
Speaker 1: is gonna take, even with some of the money that's
Speaker 1: coming from not d C. So that's gonna be a
Speaker 1: story that we're going to see evolve over the next
Speaker 1: couple of months. But I'm worried, particularly about smaller hospitals,
Speaker 1: but even large systems. Alright, well, we look forward to
Speaker 1: continuing the conversation. Uh, and as Carol said at the
Speaker 1: beginning of our chat, just really appreciate you and your team.
Speaker 1: You guys have just done an unbelievable job amid obviously
Speaker 1: a lot of stresses and strains of helping keep us
Speaker 1: and our audience really honest about this. Dr Rod Huckman, Uh,
Speaker 1: he's the boss out of Providence St. Joseph. Help