WEBVTT - A Real Leader Is Needed To Deliver Vital Changes: David McCourt 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:05.360 Welcome to the Bloomberg Penl Podcast. I'm Paul swing you 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:07.720 along with my co host Lisa Brahma Wicks. Each day 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:10.280 we bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:12.560 you and your money. Whether at the grocery store or 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:15.480 the trading floor, find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.000 Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:22.320 at Bloomberg dot com. When there are crises, there's a 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:26.480 question of leadership. How should a leader go around getting 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.960 people to come together and get past the difficulties they're 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:33.479 they're currently dealing with. To answer that question, we have 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.599 David McCourt, founder and Chief executive officer of Granahan McCourt Capital, 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.960 also the chair of National Broadband Ireland, an entrepreneur for 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:47.320 years in the technology, media and telecommunications space who has 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:51.720 been a top many companies, many production outfits. Reading Rainbow 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:53.880 you want an Emmy for It? I loved that show 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:55.960 when I was a little kid. You're also the author 0:00:55.960 --> 0:01:00.560 of Total Rethink Why Entrepreneurs should Act like Revolutionaries. When 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:03.880 you're leading through a crisis, how do you even begin 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:08.400 to think about first steps? When messaging your to your staff, 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:13.440 to the people who you are leading. Thanks Thanks Lisa. Well, 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:15.839 I think the first thing you want to do, Lisa 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:20.759 is make your issue and the people you're leading issue 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.800 the same. That's the very first thing you want to do. 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:25.880 And you want to have empathy, and you want to 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.880 spend as much time listening as you do talking, and 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.560 you want to be consistent. And I think those are 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.240 the things you're seeing. Some people in the business will 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:38.160 do very very well and some excuse me, and some 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:39.640 not to do well at all. And I think on 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:43.600 the on the government side, we're seeing a real inconsistency 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:49.480 around those types of leadership qualities, which is contributing to 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:52.120 the chaos and the problems we're having right now, which 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:56.560 are obviously not only affecting us as a society it 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:01.600 has it's just not good business as well. So it's interesting, David. 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:05.080 You know technology, we think about social media, the ways 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:07.960 leaders can communicate as so different today. It used to be, 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:09.919 you know, you would hear from the White House via 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:12.880 some formal press release with the White House stationary. Now 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.480 it's it's it's a tweet. How has technology changed maybe 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:22.440 how leaders get their message across to their followers. Well, 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.760 it's it's changed everything, right, Uh, Paul, I mean it's 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:29.720 it's it's changed overnight. We've all changed the way we 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:33.000 do business. But I think I think the big change 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:34.639 is yet to come and there's a couple of things 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.280 that have to happen. Number One, we have to make 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.480 sure we get connectivity to everyone because right now it's 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:45.040 a big urban world divide. Is roughly three million people 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.440 a week that are moving from ral to urban because 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.720 rural life in America and other parts of the world 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:52.720 where I do business the UK and Ireland has just 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:57.960 been decimated. And we need to make connectivity human, right 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.080 like Keanan water not so they get Netflix, so they 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:05.400 have educational opportunities, health care opportunities, jobs, products and services 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:09.400 to make their lives better. So that's the big change 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.680 right now. It's zoom calls, and it's it's you know, 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.919 being able to use social media to communicate. And when 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:18.560 you think of social media, Paul, I think you want 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:21.040 to really be thinking of that. That is Internet two 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:24.079 point oh. Right. Internet one point oh was was was 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.040 just moving once and zero is more efficiently. Internet two 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:33.760 point oh was was people communicating with machines uh at pace. 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.800 But Internet three point oh when machines are communicating with 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:43.000 machines at scale. That's going to be a total game 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.480 change of all businesses, all your listeners that are gonna 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:50.200 have to rethink the businesses when that happens. And of course, 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:52.400 to make it fair, we have to make sure we 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.360 have connectivity to everyone. And I would argue that a 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.920 lot of people are already making this shift mentally right now, 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.960 based on what we've experienced with the pandemic, with more 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:06.240 people working from home, trying to homeschool or not home schooling. 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.480 But I'm just wondering, you know, especially as we get 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:13.080 the jobs report tomorrow. As a leader, how do you 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.720 offer reassurance to people that they're not going to become obsolete, 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.600 they're not going to be earning much much less. How 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.600 do you give that kind of confidence and rally support 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:29.760 at a time of such massive technological transformation. Well maybe 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:33.479 maybe that that might be the wrong question, because I 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:36.880 don't think we can if we don't make real changes, 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.760 because there's some systemic problems that we're not dealing with. 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.440 Our education, that training is relatively flat for last fifty years. 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:46.240 If you saw a classroom fifty years ago, in years 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.280 start pitch of a classroom today, they look alike. The 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.760 types of jobs we need in America are at a 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.919 slope upward slope that's deeper than it's ever been. The 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:01.039 traditional jobs are at a downward slope that sleep steeper 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.360 than we've ever seen. So we can't give people a 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.839 fake sense of confidence. We need to get people ready 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.280 for the jobs of the future, and and we're not 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.520 really doing that. So so you said that people have 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.080 already made that the jump. People have made the jump 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:18.840 that have a job. So if you have a job, 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.120 like like the three of us do, then you can 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:24.200 make the change. You can adjust your life, you can 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.159 do zoom calls, you can do an interview on Bloomberg 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.560 Radio from in Los Angeles right now when you're in 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:34.880 New York. But if you don't have a job after 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.000 this is over, you're gonna be going into a market 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:41.799 with the jobs aren't ever coming back, and the need 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:44.680 for training for new jobs has never been so steep. 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.279 So I think we have to address the systemic issues 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:52.440 rapidly um as opposed to pretending that everything is going 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.559 to be okay. Because we have unemployment at the levels 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:02.640 we have this pandemic that you know is as fearful 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.000 as the one of nineteen eighteen. We have riots that 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:09.920 are that are far more expansive than the nine. So 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:11.800 we've got a lot of things going on that we 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:13.800 have to deal with, and the best way to deal 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.159 with it, I think is not to give people confidence 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.839 that it's gonna be okay, give people confidence that we're 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:21.680 really going to address the systemic issues that we have. 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.560 I think that's that's what the game changes, and I 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:26.720 think that's what everybody wants to hear. And by the way, 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:28.839 I know, this is the business show, so it's good 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.120 to business. The the it's good for business that we 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.440 give people their dignity and we give people a sense 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:40.000 that we're going to address these systemic employment issues. That's 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.640 my view anyway. David McCourt, thank you so much for 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:47.279 joining us. We really appreciate your thoughts and Commentsary David McCourt. 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:51.240 He is the founder and CEO of Granahan McCourt Capital, 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:56.320 also chairman of the National Broadbad Ireland and Lisa Also. 0:06:56.360 --> 0:07:00.360 He's also the author of Total Rethink Why Entrepreneurs Should 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.599 Act Like Revolutionaries. There's certainly need, Lisa, I think we 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:05.200 can all agree as we look around what's going on 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:07.000 over the last several months and really over the last 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:08.840 we can have as a really to some of the 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:12.560 civil unrest for leadership both at the national level, UH 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:14.880 and at the local level as well. Yeah, this is 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:17.600 a scary time. It's a scary time for everyone, and 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:21.239 it has brought about a lot of changes rapidly, people 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.240 saying that it is accelerated, brought forward by years, some 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.280 of the trends that we had seen, in addition to 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:31.360 shattering a lot of people's notions of safety, of healthcare 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.480 and and beyond. And and there's a question of how 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:38.040 we get beyond this, Who will bring us there? How 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.000 do we get the confidence and the support in order 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.800 to build whatever comes next? And Paul, that's going to 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:48.200 be something that we continue to ask throughout the months ahead. Boy. 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:53.280 Airline stocks are just ripping today, America Airlines up almost United, 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.880 up about four Delta, up about eleven percent. And that's 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.640 on news that American Airlines says it's gonna boosting in 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:05.240 July by about seventy as demand goes back stronger than expected. 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:10.000 Mary Steinenstein, us airlines reporter for Bloomberg News, joins us. Mary, 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:13.040 give us a sense of how what really American is 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:17.040 saying here about the demand side of their business, well, 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.960 they're saying that they've seen demand come back a little 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:23.480 bit quicker than they had expected, particularly in domestic markets 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:27.000 and particularly in states that have already lifted some of 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.800 the quarantine rules, like Florida and like Texas. They're seeing 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.679 a lot of people who want to travel to UM 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:37.720 to destinations like beaches, amusement parks that may be reopening 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.120 things like that, and they're also seeing a little bit 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:44.319 of improvement in domestic business demand. All right, so this 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:48.040 is actually coming off a very difficult period. How much 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:51.480 ahead of expectations is the surge and demand the American 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:55.480 Airlines is describing here. They didn't really put out a 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.079 lot of numbers in terms of what they had expected 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:01.679 versus what they're seeing, UM, but you know, they what 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:03.760 they're doing is they're going to increase the number of 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:07.120 flights on their busiest days next months to four thousand, 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.200 and that's up from twenty three hundred in June. So 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.880 they've been planning clearly, you know, for around that twenty 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.079 three d June level, and now that all of a 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.680 sudden they're bumping up to four thousand UM And part 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:19.840 of the reason for that is they're saying that their 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.840 load factor, the percentage of seats filled for plane climbed 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.880 to fifty five percent last week, down from in April, 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.560 or up from fIF in April. And what's important to 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:34.880 note was before COVID, load factors on US airlines were 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.320 like in the high eighty percent, So they've fallen a lot. 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:40.760 They're still way below where they were a year ago, 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.360 but they definitely are on the uptick. Are they gonna 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.560 be selling middle seats? Is anybody can buy a middle 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:51.480 seat anymore? You know? Um long term? All the airlines 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:55.000 have said they can't block middle seats long term. Right now, 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.800 the only airlines that are guaranteeing the block middle seats 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:01.280 are Delta and Jet Blue. The others are saying, you know, 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:03.920 we'll space you out as best we can UM or 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.640 will allow you to move when that's possible so that 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.240 you're not sitting next to other people. But yet clearly 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:11.800 that's going to have to go away because they can't 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.240 make money by blocking off a third of the seats 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.480 on their planes. Well, Mary, I'm curious about the liability 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:21.240 of airline carriers if someone does get sick on one 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.120 of their flights. Could they be held liable if they 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:27.280 don't provide masks and if they don't require a certain 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:31.400 level of air filtration and sanitation. Right, A lot of 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:36.000 the airlines, effect all the airlines have enacted very sophisticated, 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:40.000 very up to date UM cleaning processes for their aircraft. 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.720 And they'll tell you that the filters on their planes 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:46.120 are our hospital quality filters, and that the air is 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.360 recirculated very often. It's not like once a flight that 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.640 the air recirculates or that just recirculates air within the cabin. 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:58.320 Um they're doing, you know, electrostatic cleaning. UM, they're taking 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.320 all kinds of steps. Most of them are will give 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.120 you a mask in a little packet of disinfectant when 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.160 you get on the plane. UM. A number of them 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:10.680 are requiring masks to board the aircraft. And so I think, 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.120 you know, as long as they are complying with CDC 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.240 recommendations and doing everything that they can, I'm not sure 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.360 how viable UM a lawsuit would be about them, although 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.680 I'm not a legal expert. Mary, what's the you mentioned 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.040 load factors in the high eighties. It seems like every 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:28.760 flight I've been on in the last couple years has 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:32.280 been a load factor. What's the load factor they need 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.480 to to kind of break even start making money. UM. 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.560 That's a big question that everybody asked, is what what 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:41.400 do you need to be break even? UM? You know, 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:45.880 the airlines today are all still burning through millions of 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.520 dollars a day. UM. The the government aid they got 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.559 helped them with some payroll costs. But you know, although 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:56.480 you have this bright outlook or brightened outlook on more flights, 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.240 you know, all these airlines are still UM, plan need 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.640 to cut jobs. You know, United and American and both 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:05.480 said we're going to cut our management and support staff. 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:09.000 They have tens of thousands of employees who have already 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:13.240 taken leaves or early retirement UM. And they are mostly 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:17.080 offering a second round now of leave for employees to take. 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.840 So although it, you know, it looks a little bit brighter, 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.800 the industry is still hurting a lot and it's going 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:26.440 to be a long lasting impact that the carriers are saying, 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.400 you know, we know when demand improves and we come 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:31.400 out of this, we're just gonna be a lot smaller 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.240 than we were before it happened. I want to talk 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:37.240 about the roots that the airlines are willing to fly. 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.280 How much is this really just focused on domestic flights 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.560 and how limited our flights to areas that have been 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.400 harder hit by COVID? And then of course there's a 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.600 question of international travel. How are the airline carriers dealing 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:53.120 with that? Right? The airlines have not added a lot 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:57.200 of international travel. Um. You know, right after um, the 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:02.720 COVID pandemic really started spreading, Um, they basically stopped all 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.600 the international flying, I mean playing. Airlines like American was 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:11.360 making a handful of flights internationally each week, so it 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:15.520 was a very very small amount. They are adding back, um, 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:19.640 some international routes now, um, but they're also delaying some 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.840 international routes. For example, American has added back a few 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.559 for June, but they've delayed by another month until July 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.679 or beyond, a whole lot more of the international routes 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.120 that they had had planned to start. Part of the 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.920 reason for that is there's confusion about well, you know 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.959 what country is listed the restrictions. What countries are gonna 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.960 cause me to quarantine for fourteen days when I get there? 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.720 You know what? Tourist attractions in Europe are open. So 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.600 there's a lot of confusion, and so people are more 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:52.240 hesitant to book internationally, UM, domestically. UM. You know. The 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:56.840 only place that is got a quarantine requirement when you 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.839 fly there in places Hawaii, and that's really dampening down 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:05.960 travel to Hawaii. Southwest for example, has not restarted uh, 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:10.640 their primary Hawaii service yet because of that. Mary Schlagenstein, 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:12.720 thank you so much. She covers all things airlines for 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:19.360 us at Bloomberg News. Well's another difficult jobless claims number today. 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.040 We're looking about forty million people since the beginning of 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.000 the pandemic have fouled jobs claims. Real question is how 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:28.400 are the gig economy employees being counted here and how 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.960 are they faring during this economy? For that, we're welcome, Uh, 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.240 We're pleased to have John Chuangu, CEO and co founder 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:39.240 of Aquinutu discusses the gig economy. So, John, thanks so 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:41.000 much for joining us here. Give us a sense of 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:48.040 how gig economy employees are faring here in this economic environment. Yeah, 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:52.720 gig economy employees are not uh, not doing well. They 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:57.240 are a very large part of the record numbers of 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:02.200 unemployed people uh that we're having. Um, and more importantly, 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.000 because they are not really part of the social safety net. 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.720 Um they do not get, they have a lot more 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.080 difficulty getting an employment and by large they do not 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:14.560 have sick pay and they do not have health insurance 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:19.080 from their employer, so they are they are definitely hurting 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:24.000 more um than the average employee. Well, so I'm wondering 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.120 going forward whether we're going to see a sea change 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.640 in some of the lack of protections that gig workers 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.880 have based on the fact that the government has had 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.160 to step in in big in a big way to 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.920 back up these workers and may push employee employers to 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:44.160 do more. I certainly hope. So right now, there's a 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:48.160 great deal of inequality in corporate America, even in some 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:52.600 of the biggest, most richest American companies. You have really 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:57.000 two classes of employees, one regular w two employees who 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.280 get who might get great benefits and retirement plan ends 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.200 and lots of perks. But then you have the contingent 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:08.480 contractors who are who are combined you know, gig gig 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:12.600 economy employees as well as temporary contractors, and they do 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.880 not get benefits, and that that really needs to change, 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:19.320 and it's it's changing by companies on their own taking 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:23.320 some initiatives. They've been some companies taking steps a few 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.960 a few ones recently, UM, but it might take government 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:30.760 involvement to really change it. You have initiatives like a 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.840 B five in California, UM where some UM where the 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.760 where the California government has basically passed laws making it 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.920 a lot more difficult to hire people as ten ninety 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:46.160 nine or contractors, which will kind of force UM at 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:51.920 least basic employment protections on a lot of UM businesses. 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.200 And and and I think we shall support that because 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.440 it's only fair for the workers. So John, I guess 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:00.200 you know we saw over the last several year as 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.880 I think about Uber and Lift and other gig economy companies, 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:05.760 you know, a real sense that, gee, this is a 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.720 real cool way to think about work. It's flexible. I 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:11.080 can work when I want, where I want, kind of 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.920 set my own hours, be my own boss. There's a big, 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:17.040 big move towards the gig economy. And I always joke 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.920 that anytime you walk into a Starbucks anywherewhere around the country, 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.200 it seems like the entire Starbucks is people with you know, 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:28.159 computers open doing a certain gig economy jobs. That's going 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:32.440 to change at all. On the other side of this pandemic. Look, 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.359 there's a really big opportunity here to make the gig 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.920 economy great. That's sort of flexibility that you're talking about, 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.600 and the easy access the jobs is wonderful and we 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.719 should really be proud of of economy that has created 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:50.040 this and the entrepreneurship that has UH has built UH 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:53.600 such flexibility and work. Now there is a downside though, 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.360 because um as they built these systems, they did very quickly, 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.919 and they wanted to have the as much HOSS advantage 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:05.159 as possible, so they decided to pay people as contractors, 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.120 which means you don't pay employment taxes, and you don't 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.680 do minimum wage, and you don't overtime laws. As an 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.720 effect you and and you cut out all the social services. Well, 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.280 this has a really big impact, and it's been magnified 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.840 by the pandemic. So my hope is what these companies 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.760 will do, maybe with some prodding from the government, is 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.080 keep the gig economy and keep all the great benefits, 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:31.400 but add the social protections such as minimum wage, unemployment insurance, 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:36.640 you know, overtime laws that all companies have really provided 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.280 their workers for the last hundred years if something. If 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:45.560 if companies like McDonald's and Starbucks and Walmart to pride 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:50.400 these protections UM for their employees, I'm sure gig economy 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.160 companies can do the same. John, I'm sure you've heard 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.399 this argument. UH. And just to give some perspective, you 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.800 co founded this company in while you are an under 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.560 graduated at Harvard. UH. It's fascinating to see how much 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.120 the world has transformed in that time with the focus 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.000 on the gig economy. What do you say to people 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:13.520 who counter your argument about protections and say that this 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:17.280 market would but not be nearly as dynamic if companies 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.200 had to pay the kind of overhead required of companies 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:26.160 that do have full time, non gig workers. No, I 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:31.439 I I disagree with that UM UH Fully Basically, America 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:36.800 wants companies that could provide value to consumers and pay 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:41.240 their workers a fair wage. UH. They do not want 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:47.280 UM to UM participate in businesses that mistreat their workers UM. 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.080 And that's why many American companies that are the most 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.960 successful have managed to do both. UM. What gig economy 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:58.440 companies are saying is that, hey, we can't UM provide 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:02.200 great value to customers unless we underpay our workers. And 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:05.120 if that is the case, which is not the case, 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.600 but if that was the case, Uh, then there should 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:12.320 be no gig economy because you cannot essentially provide great 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.359 services while miss treating your workers. Americans don't want that. 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:17.720 John Joying, thank you so much for being with those, 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:21.440 co founder, chairman and chief executive officer of aquand here 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.119 in New York talking about that gig economy, which has 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.879 very much been in focus. And Paul, when we parse 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:30.000 the jobs data tomorrow, one big question mark is a 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:34.280 number of people receiving the pandemic unemployment insurance, a separate 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:40.280 bucket that covers the gig workers. Well. After the significant 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.520 sell off we saw in March, in most financial markets, 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:46.400 it's been extraordinary rebound for a lot of the riskiest 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:48.359 assets out that. Do you think about the equity markets 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:52.280 up nearly off the lows. Uh. It's also applied to 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.679 certain extents to the emerging markets. And let's get the 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.840 latest for all things emerging markets. We turned to Damien Sassaur. 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.360 He's the chief Emerging Markets credit streat just for Bloomberg Intelligence. 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:03.400 So Damian, give us a sense of kind of how 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:07.680 your markets, the riskier assets classes out there emerging markets 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.080 have performed over the last week or so. Yeah, you know, 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:13.280 I mean they're definitely snapping back. But you know, look, 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:15.040 I mean, Paul, we've worked together for four year now, 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:17.400 four years now, you know. So in my prior lifetime, 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:19.520 you know, you're aware I ran a large asset manager 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:21.560 with a focus on em but more importantly to focus 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.000 on the frontier markets. Right. So when it comes to 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.760 pitching numerous projects, you know the folks down at Connecticut 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:30.040 and seven nineteen Street, I'm talking about the World Bank 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:32.520 and the i m F now for funding for development 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.520 of power deals or agriculture. I mean, I can tell 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:38.920 you without fail, multilaterals, including all their x in banks 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:41.639 and the financial institutions that support them, they must manage 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.680 their own balance sheet risk and this means managing exposure 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:46.960 across countries and sectors. Paul. So you know, when we 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:49.000 talk about debt relief from the G seven, and we 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:51.560 talk about all the IMF lending facilities that are going 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:54.560 on for the me the debate isn't about relief, It's 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:56.600 about how the relief is delivered. And I've got two 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:59.440 words for you here, transparency and control and I fear 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:01.000 when the dust those we're going to have little of 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:03.800 either to lean on when times gets off. All right, well, 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:07.080 let's talk about the current situation and who needs the 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:11.040 debt relief the most. As an investor, if you channel 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:15.280 where you were back from two thousand sixteen, where would 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.720 you be looking for, you know, the best place to 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:22.560 basically put your equity in and and say you deserve 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:24.880 some sort of relief And I want to be part 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:26.679 of your upside. I mean, is there is there a 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.240 country that you say is deserving? Is that of that? 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:32.480 I mean plenty of them. The problem is the problem 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:35.280 is how to institutions price that risk? Okay, so let 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:36.760 me give you an example here. The I m F 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:40.040 is preparing a new credit line with Ecuador. But Lennon Moreno, 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:42.000 the president is not going to seek re election, and 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:44.520 if he doesn't, there's a reasonable chance that the new 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:47.399 government won't be as pro reform. So how does the IMF? 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:50.159