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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Scott Software, and I'm Evans and I'm Michael Barr.

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Speaker 1: And this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, where

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Speaker 1: we explore the big money issues in the world of

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Speaker 1: sports today. We begin with the final four. Now down

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Speaker 1: to the finals. It is Michigan against Villanova. Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: give it up for Loyola Chicago. They had a great run. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is most fun I had in my life. It is.

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Speaker 1: It's just so much fun for me to be here.

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Speaker 1: And I almost didn't get here, but I fought hard

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Speaker 1: enough to do that because I wanted to be with

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Speaker 1: the guys. Sister Geane could only carry them so far.

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Speaker 1: Everything's in the discount, bin Bar. I mean that that's it.

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Speaker 1: We will never hear of Sister Jean again because they're

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Speaker 1: not coming back next year. So this is the way

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Speaker 1: it works. You're hot, then you're not. So this is

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Speaker 1: it and a good result for for CPS and Turner crowd.

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Speaker 1: This is kind of the matchup of when you looked

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Speaker 1: at the final four, this is the one they probably wanted. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, you get your East Coast small Catholic school

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Speaker 1: that's a basketball powerhouse. You get your big time, big

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Speaker 1: conference overall sports power in Michigan. Get the Cinderellas out

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Speaker 1: of the way, and let's get to those programs that

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Speaker 1: have tens of thousands of fans all over the country.

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Speaker 1: What does this East Coast Catholic school, Jesuit school always

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Speaker 1: in the final four? When did Yeshiva go into the

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Speaker 1: final When does Yeshiva building the program to where it's

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Speaker 1: Michigan and Yeshiva's now that, I mean, that's a story. Hey,

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Speaker 1: you went to the John Tucker School. Speaking of which,

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Speaker 1: though about Loyola Chicago. At least they made some coin

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Speaker 1: for other schools in their division, and you talked about that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of basketball fans don't realize the

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Speaker 1: way the n c A rewards teams for playing well

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Speaker 1: in the tournament, and they do so by giving the

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Speaker 1: money to the conference, not to the team itself. So

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Speaker 1: Loyola made eight and a half million dollars for all

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Speaker 1: the schools total, for all the schools in their conference.

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Speaker 1: And when you go to these are schools like Valparizo,

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Speaker 1: these are schools like Missouri State, Indiana, se. You know,

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Speaker 1: these are schools that don't have a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: So that is a significant a lot of the big

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Speaker 1: portion of the revenue they bring in is from their

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Speaker 1: success in the tournament. And this is a conference Missouri

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Speaker 1: Valley that lost Wichita State last year, you know, and

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Speaker 1: they were one of the best mid major schools and

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Speaker 1: in the tournament in the past decade they lost their

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Speaker 1: bell cow and suddenly in the first year, Loyola comes

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Speaker 1: in and wins the maximum amount of money that they

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Speaker 1: can win for a conference. It's huge for those schools.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not going to pretend to know the coach

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Speaker 1: at Loyola. I didn't watch much of it. But what

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Speaker 1: are they gonna have to pay to keep them? And

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Speaker 1: who's nothing on the door? That's how this work. That's

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Speaker 1: all I know. That's how this works. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people can knock on the door and they're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to pay a lot to keep them. All Right, I

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Speaker 1: gotta put you guys on the spot, Villanova or I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can see both teams winning. I'll go Michigan. Villanova

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Speaker 1: obviously look fantastic in their in their semifinal game. Michigan,

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Speaker 1: I would say, is probably the hottest team over the

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Speaker 1: past month or so in college basketball. They're playing well.

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Speaker 1: I'll say I'll say Michigan. I'm gonna go with what

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Speaker 1: I heard the little kid at the bus stop this morning.

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Speaker 1: And in the real world, a wolverine would be the

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Speaker 1: wildcat Dad. So he's going with Wolverine. I got Villanova

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Speaker 1: in the pool, but sentiment of reasons, I gotta go

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Speaker 1: with Michigan. And now on to another topic that was

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Speaker 1: the Detroit reference. Let's talk about Katie Ladecki. She is

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Speaker 1: turning pro after her NC double A time. Uh. Let's

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Speaker 1: say there are a lot of factors involved here. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In the most serious one, I'm just wondering now that

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Speaker 1: she feel let down by the n C double A.

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Speaker 1: I don't think she feels let down. It's just silly

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Speaker 1: that she can't capitalize on her talent and ability. And

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Speaker 1: maybe that day is coming. And we saw it with

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Speaker 1: Jeremy Bloom the skier. He wasn't allowed to do some

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Speaker 1: modeling or whatever it was. I mean, she's not just

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Speaker 1: the best, so much better than anybody else. And now

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Speaker 1: she can finally cash in because she's like, all right,

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Speaker 1: I've done it all. Now she's turning pro and there

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Speaker 1: will be a nice stable of companies lining up to

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Speaker 1: align themselves with Katie Ladecki's brand. She's not gonna take

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Speaker 1: them all. She'll she'll parcel them out, but at least

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Speaker 1: she can finally cash it. We won't speak for Katie,

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Speaker 1: but I would imagine there's some frustration with the n

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Speaker 1: c a A. She clearly loves being a student athlete.

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Speaker 1: She's at Stanford, She's won two national championships with them,

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Speaker 1: a host of individual championships. She likes it so much.

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Speaker 1: She's a She's staying in school be She's going to

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Speaker 1: continue to train and practice with the team, and as

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Speaker 1: she gets ready for the Olympics in Tokyo in two years,

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Speaker 1: she's using the Stanford head swimming coach as her main coach.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it is clear that Katie Ladecki enjoys her

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Speaker 1: time at Stanford and is doing everything to continue that

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Speaker 1: time except compete in the pool with the Cardinals because

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Speaker 1: she wants to make the money. It's almost like, really,

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Speaker 1: if there's a preordained outcome when she's in the pool,

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Speaker 1: it's that she wins. It's not. It's not even close.

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Speaker 1: The only thing that changes is when they go out

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Speaker 1: for pizza, she's buying. If given, if given the option

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Speaker 1: to continue swimming for your cardinal and make money off

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Speaker 1: her likeness or not, she would obviously continue to be

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Speaker 1: a collegiate swimmer um and and we can talk about

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Speaker 1: the n c A and their amateurism rules when it

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Speaker 1: applies to other sports like basketball and football, but for swimming,

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Speaker 1: I just don't. I don't fully see what the benefit

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Speaker 1: is to the n c A to apply this rule

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Speaker 1: to a sport that has so few stars that could

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Speaker 1: really benefit from having a strong a woman who's the

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Speaker 1: best in the world competing at the n c A

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Speaker 1: level as well. It just seems as though there's a

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Speaker 1: lot here that the n c A stands to gain

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Speaker 1: if they let her do both. Make it you make

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Speaker 1: an exception for one, then you make an exception for

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Speaker 1: all that for exception. And I'm sorry rule to rule change,

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Speaker 1: but it does. It does seem like we're moving in

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Speaker 1: that direction where they will be allowed to at least

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Speaker 1: sell likeness or something. Sure and we can say moving

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Speaker 1: forward in the next two years, she will be the

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Speaker 1: bona fide a one star of the U S Olympic

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Speaker 1: team moving into Tokyo. I can't think of anybody else

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Speaker 1: that that would even just like in college basketball, now

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Speaker 1: where if a coach leaves where the kid was stuck

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Speaker 1: at that school, or if you did transfer, he or

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Speaker 1: she had to sit out a year. Now you hear

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Speaker 1: this drumbeat of support for way to wait. You know,

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Speaker 1: I know you're going to an institution, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of these kids are picking the school because of the

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Speaker 1: college basketball coach. So if that coach leaves, that students

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Speaker 1: should be allowed to go somewhere else without penalty too.

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Speaker 1: And it can go to anything from an NC double

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Speaker 1: a football team, the basketball team. The same rules apply.

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Speaker 1: But I guess the best case for Katie Ladecki right

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Speaker 1: now is, as you said, heading into the Olympics. She

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Speaker 1: gets all these endorsements and she can make a lot

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Speaker 1: of money. You know, when there's some makes sense, that

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Speaker 1: argument makes sense when professors start visiting households to recruit

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Speaker 1: kids to please come to Stanford, Please come to Georgetown.

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Speaker 1: My class is so good for you. That doesn't happen,

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Speaker 1: not to me anyway. But the coach didn't come either.

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Speaker 1: So speaking of the n C double, A pressuring the

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Speaker 1: NBA to allow pros to have the right from high school,

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Speaker 1: and I don't understand again why we're in the same

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Speaker 1: situation before. As you mentioned, Evan about uh, why the

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Speaker 1: n c double A is so strict about this A. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's worth mentioning right here at the top

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Speaker 1: that the reason that you can't go straight from high

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Speaker 1: school into the pros and basketball is not because of

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Speaker 1: the n c A A. It's not because the n

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Speaker 1: c A is gredient wants to get these top players

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Speaker 1: at least for a year before they move on. It's

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Speaker 1: because NBA owners want to have that extra time, some

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Speaker 1: extra layer of evaluation before they invest millions and millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars into an eighteen or a nineteen year and

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Speaker 1: it cuts off the second contract that big. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: it's a money issue. So from the n c A standpoint,

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Speaker 1: they want they want a solution almost as much as

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Speaker 1: a lot of college basketball fans do. And they are

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Speaker 1: made out to be the villain in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 1: but this specific issue, they also bring it upon themselves.

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Speaker 1: But they don't let a kid go test the waters,

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Speaker 1: not like where they get drafted and go back to

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Speaker 1: school and can't sign an engine. Yeah, I mean, at

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Speaker 1: least do what you can to best protect your players.

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Speaker 1: And they're not even doing that, so clean up your

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Speaker 1: own house and then worry about the NBA and n

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Speaker 1: b p A. And we saw Mark emer At, the

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Speaker 1: president of the n c A this weekend talking about

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Speaker 1: how I mean very publicly saying that he wants the

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Speaker 1: NBA to figure out a better way, an easier way

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Speaker 1: for recruits coming out of high school who want the

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Speaker 1: professional experience to do that in the D League, the

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Speaker 1: development League for the NBA, as opposed to going into

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Speaker 1: n c A schools like we've seen countless of people

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Speaker 1: people do kind of go to school, get through the

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Speaker 1: end of their their basketball season and drop out. Yeah

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Speaker 1: they're not. I mean, this is what bugs me about

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Speaker 1: the whole thing, and I know it bugs executives in

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Speaker 1: the NBABLE with the league and the team level. How

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Speaker 1: many kids are we really talking about here? This is

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Speaker 1: about what ten or fifteen kids a year, And I

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Speaker 1: know it's their lives and it matters, I get it,

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Speaker 1: But we're talking to all this inc airtime Ajita over

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Speaker 1: fifteen kids a year. Who really if that, by the way,

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Speaker 1: who really have the ability to be one and done?

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Speaker 1: Come on, what are we Why are we even bothering

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Speaker 1: with this? Because the n c A A wants to

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Speaker 1: keep them. This conversation comes a week after Syracuse top

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Speaker 1: recruit Darius Baisley said that he was going to forego

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Speaker 1: going to college at all and that he was going

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Speaker 1: to be one of the first, if not the first,

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Speaker 1: in my memory, to go straight from high school to

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Speaker 1: the D League. Um and if you hear him talk

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Speaker 1: about it, he's very open about the fact that this

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Speaker 1: is it's partially about money, it's partially about being a

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Speaker 1: trend center. He really believes that in the future there

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Speaker 1: is going to be this ground well of players. In

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Speaker 1: Scott's right, it's not a huge amount of players. It's

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Speaker 1: in their own eyes. It's a lot more players go

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Speaker 1: to Europe. We've had the high school kids. We've seen

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Speaker 1: this San Jennings. If you if you want to make

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Speaker 1: some money, go make some money. Let's but the biggest

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Speaker 1: stage out there is still the n C Double A Tournament,

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Speaker 1: which is why these kids want to go. But if

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Speaker 1: you can play, as David Stern used to say, if

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Speaker 1: you can play, you can play, you're going to be found.

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Speaker 1: So if you leave high school and you're you're the

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Speaker 1: top kid, but you don't want to go to college,

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Speaker 1: you go play for some team in Greece or Spain.

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Speaker 1: If you're that good, you'll still be the number one

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Speaker 1: draft pick. It doesn't matter where you are. But culturally

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Speaker 1: it's a big ask for for a sixteen year old

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Speaker 1: man who is in worldly seventeen, whatever, however old you are,

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Speaker 1: the idea of going and living in Greece for a

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Speaker 1: year out of high school is a big ask. The

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Speaker 1: D League is a much more realistic and probably much

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Speaker 1: more enticing ask. Another topic, the NFL is considering the

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Speaker 1: sale of betting data overseas. You don't say the NFL,

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Speaker 1: but I was surprised they didn't already do this. I

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Speaker 1: don't want anything, but I mean, the NFL did buy

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Speaker 1: into sport Radar, which is the largest provider of live

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Speaker 1: data to the betting houses around the world. So while

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Speaker 1: they're on one hand saying we're against this, we're against this,

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Speaker 1: let's not forget what's going on here, what the left

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Speaker 1: hand is doing behind the curtain. They are developing the

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Speaker 1: ability to monetize sports betting, and just because it's not

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Speaker 1: here doesn't mean they don't want to make money from

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Speaker 1: the betting houses around the world. And the fact that

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Speaker 1: we're getting closer to a probably getting closer to a

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Speaker 1: legalized framework here in the United States. It's as we

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Speaker 1: sit here on Monday. The Supreme Court did not rule today,

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Speaker 1: so everyone can stand down on that. But we're getting

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Speaker 1: closer to a possible situation where a lot more states

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Speaker 1: in the US have legalized sports gambling, and it is

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Speaker 1: forcing all these leagues like the NBA, like the NFL

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Speaker 1: to really address and look at all the revenue making

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Speaker 1: opportunities because once there's no longer this thing for them

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Speaker 1: to fight against, once they embrace it, there is a

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Speaker 1: plethora of ways that they can really really start filling

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Speaker 1: up the coffers As a result, I had my mouth

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Speaker 1: all watered, my wallet all set. I thought the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court was going to make a ruling today, but like

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Speaker 1: you said, no, it's like it's not going to happen.

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Speaker 1: But it brings up this point. Once they make this ruling,

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Speaker 1: and many experts, as we all know, saying, hey, it

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Speaker 1: looks like it's gonna happen. We're gonna be betting all

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Speaker 1: across the nation. I wonder how many online sites are

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Speaker 1: going to pop up and be regulated and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have a saturation of that or what Well, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean they'll be there. That's why it's always about first

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Speaker 1: mover and brand identity, and that's why DraftKings and fandel

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Speaker 1: are who they are. And there's tons of those daily

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Speaker 1: fantasy sites you've never heard of, and I've never heard of.

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Speaker 1: Those were the ones that succeeded. That's just marketplace. Let's

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Speaker 1: let's see what happens. And how about a segue bar

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Speaker 1: for you. What we're talking about here is like the

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Speaker 1: big revenue streams. This is going to be the next

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Speaker 1: big revenue stream and before that was daily fantasy and

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Speaker 1: now it's e sports. So it's just the next great

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Speaker 1: revenue I would think though, that the fantasy sports sites

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Speaker 1: do not want to see this. Well, they're gonna pivot,

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Speaker 1: They're gonna move over you if your DraftKings, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I think you realize that when betting on sports is

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Speaker 1: allowed legally online, your your product right now is not

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Speaker 1: going to be as popular as it was a year ago.

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Speaker 1: But the value that exactly you have the you have

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Speaker 1: a customer base that is very strong that clearly enjoys

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Speaker 1: giving you their credit card and and letting them let

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Speaker 1: let letting you organize games that they can count wager

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Speaker 1: on sports, etcetera. Uh, they are banking heavily on the

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Speaker 1: fact that they are experienced in marketing these types of

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Speaker 1: games too. Across the United States, they have a very

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Speaker 1: big user base already built in. You will see them

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Speaker 1: pivot very quickly to becoming sports post Amazon and Jeff

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Speaker 1: Bezos and say, hey, what's going on that I want

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Speaker 1: to get in on that groceries bed. Hope that he

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Speaker 1: doesn't see it. There. There's one kind of barrier for

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Speaker 1: companies like Amazon, and that's the fact that a lot

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Speaker 1: of times there's bad will sometimes if you lose money

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Speaker 1: to the house, right, And I'm not sure if Amazon

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Speaker 1: really wants to wait into the idea that your average

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Speaker 1: sports fan every week might be losing hundreds of thousands

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Speaker 1: of dollars or thousands of dollars to Amazon already on

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Speaker 1: to paper, snow sled, snow shoes, sticks and you're kidding me.

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Speaker 1: But see, I know what the thing about fantasy sports

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Speaker 1: compared to just regular just betting on a team, families sports,

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Speaker 1: You gotta do a lot of homework involved in that

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Speaker 1: part you were chatting before, And tell me about your homework.

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Speaker 1: You got killed by yourself. Wrap it up with that. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: as we mentioned E Sports, Fortnite is a huge game

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Speaker 1: that I have realized. He was playing with Drake, my

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Speaker 1: thirteen year old, and my eighteen year older playing Fortnite

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Speaker 1: and they're just they're just having a ball. They're killing

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Speaker 1: it and they said, hey, here, and they hand me

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Speaker 1: the remote. Is said, why don't you try it? And

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Speaker 1: for people don't know, it's they're a hundred people out

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Speaker 1: there on this map and they're trying to take everybody out,

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Speaker 1: and you know, so they hand me the controller and

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Speaker 1: as he does this, my thirteen year old says, I

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Speaker 1: know you're an old man, but it'll be okay. He'll

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Speaker 1: be good down the Space Invaders. How quickly were you

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Speaker 1: were you killed? Oh it was about forty five seconds.

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Speaker 1: It was bad. Uh. This is the Bloomberg Business of

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Speaker 1: Sports podcast. I'm Michael Barr, along with Scott Sasnik and

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Speaker 1: Evan Nobi Williams Well here each and every Monday and Friday,

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Speaker 1: exploring the world of money in sports. Join us again

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Speaker 1: at the end of the week when we speak with

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Speaker 1: the biggest and brightest in sports business. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg radio around the world

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Speaker 1: and online. Has an Apple podcast on iTunes,