WEBVTT - Insights From Ed's Castmates & Collaborators 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:07.880 Hello, Snaffoo fans, or as I like to call you, 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:11.000 SNAPf fooligans. Come on, that's a cool name, right right. 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:13.720 I hope you're keeping cool this summer, and as we 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:18.880 wade through this horrifically sweltering El Nino, I've got something 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:22.840 even hotter for you, this brand new clip episode curated 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:25.759 by the Snafoo team and by Snapoo Team. I guess 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:29.319 I really just mean me putting on different hats and 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:32.960 using different silly voices with each hat. Now that I 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:36.000 think about it, is maybe kind of sad. But anyway, 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.400 this summer, to tide you over until our new season arrives, 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.880 we're gonna be releasing a whole series of montage episodes 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.960 tied to a certain theme or just collective nuggets of 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.160 Snaffoo laden wisdom. And to kick things off, I thought 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.600 we might want to begin with a fun romp down 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.600 Memory Lane with a bunch of my guests, who also 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:59.520 happen to be my wonderful collaborators on film and TV 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.400 project over the years. So if you didn't catch the 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.640 behind the scenes banter before, now is a great time 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:09.399 to tune in and devour some bite sized morsels about 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:11.840 what it was like to power around with Angela Keenzi 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:14.840 and Jennif Fisher when we had downtime between scenes on 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.440 the Office. Or how Mike Sure, one of the Office writers, 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.440 helped conjure the character of Andy Bernard based on one 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:25.000 of his own acquaintances. Maybe hear a little bit about 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.639 Jake Johnson recalling how when we were shooting the movie Tag, 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:33.960 Jeremy Rinner literally broke both arms doing a stunt and 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:39.000 then returned to set to keep filming that same day. Yeah, 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:42.720 it's insane, as he's a superhuman. That's why he's an avenger. Anyways, 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:47.400 sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode of Snafo insights 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:57.440 from my castmates and collaborators. Let me ask Abe a 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:00.920 very I think, very pressing question that all of our 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.760 listeners and viewers are probably wondering right now, which is, 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:09.120 how much do you miss working with me on a 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:09.960 daily basis? 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:12.760 Oh? 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:17.600 My gosh, I miss the office a lot. I mean 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:21.240 we spend our days. Our job now is watching the 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:24.840 show and it always just brings up so many memories 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:29.320 of working together. And you know how many bloopers there are? 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.480 Oh yeah, there's so many, because we would just laugh 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:33.239 all day together. 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:34.840 That's what we did. Ed. 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:37.560 I just miss I miss being silly with you, Like 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.360 we would get so like I would walk past you 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.960 and we would just make up a new noise like peeling. 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:48.600 Finding Oh my god. It's like all the stuff off camera, 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.760 the life experience of that whole time period, which was 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.560 just had this kind of larger umbrella feeling of like, wow, 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.280 we're all part of something really great and that's like 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:03.160 super special. But then we're also having these really mundane, 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:07.639 lovely moments on the set, just talking about each other's 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:11.320 lives and families and like, I don't know, just the 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.640 little those little quiet moments are sitting at our trailers 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:18.960 like waiting for a camera setup or it's like that. 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.359 That's I think something that like fans don't always understand 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:24.760 is that like our experience of making the show is 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:29.880 actually this whole tapestry of mundane, small moments of just 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:31.120 experiencing each other. 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.560 I mean it's an intimacy, yeah, you know, of togetherness, 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:37.400 of constant togetherness. 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:38.200 Yeah. 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.920 And I think if I could go back and relive 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:44.120 a moment, like if you know, I got a genie 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.680 in a bottle and I could use a wish it 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.600 would be to go back and shoot a conference room 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.320 scene all day because when we would see those on 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.360 the script or on the call sheet and we would 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:57.880 be like, oh god, we have been in. 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.440 The conference room. You're going to be a slog day 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:01.560 all day. 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.920 But those were the days that created the moments you 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.680 were talking about, Ed totally, those little laughs, the shares, 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.440 the sweatiness together, all of it. 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.080 And because we weren't on a huge lot, you know, 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.640 there was no distraction. You know, people didn't walk off 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:22.440 to a commissary. We were just all in this little bubble, 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.000 this tiny space where we got to be creative together. 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:26.719 It kind of reminded me a little bit of that 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.560 energy you have in your early days with your improv 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.840 group or your one act play. Because there was no 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:35.400 one else, there was no shiny object to go off 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.479 and look at. It was just us, Like, yeah, I 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:39.640 loved it when you would play your banjo and Creed 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:41.560 would bring in his guitar and we'd hang out in 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:42.720 the parking lot. 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:42.840 You know. 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:45.520 Yeah. And it's funny you bring up those conference room 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:50.680 scenes because those were particularly special because most of the 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:54.039 time we're not all together, right, most of the time, 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.640 we're just doing little scenes with like one or two 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:01.279 other characters, and and that's that's the bulk of our work. 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.240 But then the table read was always a special moment. 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.239 Every Tuesday morning was the table read of next week's 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:12.800 script and or two weeks. I forget the timing, but 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:16.120 then it was one week, one week, one week. It 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.560 was less than a week's notice. Yeah, but those are 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.080 the moments. Those and some of those conference room scenes 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:26.720 were like where everybody's together, like everybody's and those had 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:31.159 a really special energy, like like a just a little 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.400 buzz to them. And when and like you said, when 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.160 they when they were all day long, that's and they 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.400 get a little dull and they start to slow down. 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.000 Everybody's trying to just hang in there. It's like some 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.960 of the just most human hangout. 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.880 And you had a really unique experience joining the show 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.920 because you actually joined in Stamford, so you didn't start 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.560 off in the dunder Mifflin bullpen of the scrant and 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.800 dunder Mifflin bullpen, and then you came over. What was 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.480 that like for you to kind of like soft launch 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.120 into the show, Like you worked with John, you worked 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:07.960 with Rashida, you worked with Chip. 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:13.360 Yeah, well sorry, Jenna, I'll be asking the questions today. 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:20.159 We were doing No. I love the question. I always 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:24.280 tell people like that was such a gentle entry for 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.440 us because of exactly what you're saying, Like, you know, 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.520 Rashida and I started at a time when the show 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.320 was hot. It was season three, and you guys had 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:39.320 already just kind of like created this incredible thing, and 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:45.680 so we were intimidated but also felt kind of so 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:50.360 warmly welcomed, both by the writers and and all of you. 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:54.599 Everyone's energy was so lovely. That's so sweet. It really 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:56.480 could have gone the other way. I'm sure a lot 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:58.960 of other shows there's like more it's more cutthroat, or 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.960 it feels more like the new people like let's let 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.040 them they had to prove themselves with I just felt 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:09.440 so like all of my butterflies and anxiety just washed 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.240 out so quickly because everyone, all of you were so 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.360 lovely right out of the gate, and which is a 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:20.200 testament to all of you and the vibe that got created. 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:21.680 It was collaborative. 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.480 It was not competitive totally. There was not like a 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:28.600 weird like ego competitiveness going on on that set, which 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:29.720 was so great. 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.040 Absolutely, yeah, it was always you know, we always say 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.920 it was a real creative collaboration. From the writer's room 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:40.400 to the crew to the cast, we're all working together 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:42.920 to create a product that we were proud of. And 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:44.960 I think, I mean, I think you feel that when 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.840 you watch it, and I think that's why people keep 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.080 enjoying it. As you're seeing a group of people having 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:51.160 a great time. 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:54.960 There's a warmth there that's real, and I think that 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:58.840 comes through the camera. Since nineteen fifteen, there have somehow 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:04.240 been a whopping thirty two broken arrow incidents. This includes 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:08.960 theft wait wait yeah, raising one, thirty two super dupe nukes, 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.520 super gone, super duper nuukers, thirty two. 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:19.000 Nuclear weapons. Oi YOI now I know why they call 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:21.320 it broken arrows, because when you say, you know what, 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:24.080 we have thirty two broken arrows, you're like, oh, if 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.760 you say we have thirty two lost nuclear weapons? 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:32.440 Wait stop, what say again? Euphemisms make hard things a 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:36.440 lot easier. Oh man, yeah, yeah, yeah, thirty two. 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.800 That's why Greg called all of our talking heads candy bags. 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:41.160 You know, I forgot that. 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:43.880 He said that he always felt bad giving us pages 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.840 and pages of extra monologues, so he was like, I'll 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.680 name them something fun, so we named them candy bags. 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:52.760 I loved those. I loved doing those talking heads and 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.440 like coming up with like new rifts and like the 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.480 candy bag alts, like all the different versions of our 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:00.960 talking heads. Like just it was like getting a window 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:05.439 into the writer's brains. I just remember loving the math 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.680 of those jokes and like always trying to think about 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.240 how to heighten them, and they'd have to kick me 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:11.480 out of those talking heads. 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.440 But to your point, naming all the extra work a 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.800 candy bag, it's a trick, definitely made it go down easier. 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:22.600 And also calling all our screw ups bloopers makes them 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.840 sound fun too, like, oh that was a blooper, Like 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:27.640 that's just a broken arrow. 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.439 I mean, even the word snaffoo is kind of fun. 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:36.640 Snaffooo, guys, it's just a snaffoo whoopsie doozy. Today, my 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.880 guest is one of my oldest and dearest comedy pals. 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:45.840 He's a writing legend. SNL the Office co created Parks 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.760 and rec Brooklyn ninety nine, The Good Place Rutherford Falls, 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:53.240 and by the way, he directed tons of all those 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:57.240 episodes as well, And oh don't let me forget out 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:00.040 of all of us who worked on the office. He 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.880 he was also the best actor. Yeah, he's the one 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.120 who brought the legendary Mos Shrewd into all of our 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:10.719 hearts and nightmares. Of course, he just got a very 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.840 well deserved star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.680 at this point I'm pretty sure NASA might be trying 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:22.000 to name a planet after him. Please welcome, Mike. Sure, Hello, Mike, 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:23.600 what a wonderful introduction. 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.160 Thank you, I mean, thank you first of all for 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:30.040 highlighting my acting, because I think you know that's the 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.120 legacy that I hope to leave this earth with more 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:33.920 than anything else. 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:35.679 I don't think you get enough credit for your acting, 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:37.560 and I don't agree you act enough. I think you 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:39.199 need to be in more stuff. 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:42.680 I will take any acting job that requires me to 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:47.280 a remain mute and be run along the side of 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:48.160 a car like a dog. 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.720 Let's talk about those for a second, because what went 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:57.440 into your choices, the choices that you made as an actor, 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.600 was that something that like the writer's room really kind 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:02.400 of broke down and was like, it'd be really funny 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:05.800 if he was just sort of spooky and almost like 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.520 a horror movie character just sort of popping up or 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:13.680 or was that just your own brain sort of chewing 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:15.600 on it and then showing up to set and being like, 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:19.240 I'm gonna get weird. 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:23.120 Certainly, the way that Greg Daniels and the writers wrote, 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.240 and I'm putting that in quotes wrote the character of 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:31.600 Mo's was spooky and weird and just kind of off 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:36.040 my choices as an actor, I would describe as coming 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:41.679 from a white hot panic, just pure panic. Just no 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:43.680 one had told me what to do. I didn't know 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.440 what to do. I'm not an actor, and I just 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:50.120 did anything. I just did anything that I could think 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.680 of in the moment, and people kept finding it amusing, 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:55.920 and so I just kept panicking. 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.640 And doing whatever came to mind. I love it. I'm 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.760 glad you enjoyed it. It gifts to all of America. 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:03.839 So thank you the world, really truly. 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:04.040 Sure. 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:07.280 Yeah, I'm really eager to dig into this snafu with 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:09.720 you today, but before I do, I just wanted to 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.920 tell you something because I was thinking about You know, 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:17.839 we've known each other for twenty ish years and we've 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:22.640 collaborated very closely in many different ways over the years, 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:27.840 and I've talked about you in publicly in interviews, a 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.040 lot over the years, and I realized there's something that 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.800 I kind of say when your name comes up in 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:35.960 interviews frequently, but I don't know that if I've ever 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.840 said it directly to you. And I was like, I 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.080 got to tell Mike this. I got to get on 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.280 the record with Mike sure and let you know that 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:52.880 the character Andy Bernard on the Office never would have 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:58.319 clicked for me without you. You were such an instrumental 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:04.080 part of like helping me find his voice and shaping 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.719 who he became, and that whole process, all of our 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:13.839 fun little huddle ups and just hard laughs and brainstorming 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:17.480 sessions about who Andy Bernard could be and why Andy 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.000 was funny or what made him funny, And it's just 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.480 like one of my favorite memories of show business. That's 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.640 so kind of you to say. I mean, I will 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:26.000 say that. 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.880 You know, you join the show in season three and 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.520 the plot was that, you know, Jim had moved to 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:35.920 a different office, and the office that happened to be 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.800 chosen was in Stanford, Connecticut. And I grew up in 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.360 West Hartford, Connecticut, which is maybe an hour and changed 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:46.040 north of Stanford, and I just instantly knew Andy. I 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.200 grew up with Andy a lot of Andy's and it 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.640 was a very familiar character to me at the sort 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:55.840 of preppy like good time Charlie guy who went to 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.720 an ivy League school and just wanted to be liked 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.560 and was was just desperate for for like you know, 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.080 was maybe a little clumsy in the way that he 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.320 went about it, but had a good soul and a 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.520 good heart. And I just remember thinking the combination of 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.439 that character description and you as an actor. I was like, oh, 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:18.480 I know, I get this, I get this. I know 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.480 exactly who this guy is. And I and I do 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.200 have a lot of as I'm sure you do, specific 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:27.680 memories of like little moments of like figuring out the 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:33.040 exact right little mannerism or sort of prepster little little 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.280 turn of phrase or something. 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:35.760 That he would give. 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.960 There was the episode where you all get drunk in 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.640 the office having to work late at night. Oh yeah, 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.800 and start you start singing an Indogo Girls song of 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.800 Closer to Fine song, and then Jim chimes in and 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.040 you pop up a go tuna like so excited that 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.240 he also knows all the lyrics to Closer to Find. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.840 I mean, that's that was my childhood. That was exactly 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.480 my child that was around with my friends and listening 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:02.800 to that album in particular. 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:07.400 That's really where I think our friendship forged. Like that's 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.080 when I met you, was coming onto the office set 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:14.320 and just immediately like you were one of one of 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.200 that handful of people that put me at ease immediately, 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:19.920 and I'm so glad. Yeah, I mean, it's just yeah, 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:21.480 it's awesome. It was a good time. 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.960 It was a very fun, fun time, and I think 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.520 all of our lives it felt like we were just 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.120 in a very creative world with a bunch of creative 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.000 fun people, and our only job was to figure out 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:34.800 what was the funniest thing that could have happened in 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:35.640 any given moment. 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:37.680 That's exactly our only job was to make each other 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:39.080 laugh as hard as possible. 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:41.320 Yeah, and I mean there's no better. 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.040 Job, Mike Sure. That is the story of Tammany Hall 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.320 and Boss Tweed, the biggest, baddest, most corrupt machine New 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.720 York City ever built. Do you have any sort of 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.040 like larger big picture takeaways for me? I was really 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.640 struck by the role that media played in this story, 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.680 and particularly the role of comedy cartoons. It wasn't the 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:04.400 cops or Congress or even rival politicians who brought down 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.479 Boss tweet. It was journalists and cartoonists. 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:11.360 I'll say a couple things. Number one is one of 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:15.440 the best things about this country, this screwed up, messed up, messy, 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:19.440 complex country that we live in, is that in the 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.880 First Amendment, it says very clearly the government cannot put 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.720 you in jail for or prosecute you in anyway for 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.680 speaking up and saying what you believe. And it also 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.400 says that the media is free. And because of that, 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:35.880 we have a system by which newspapers in history, and 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:40.200 television shows and radio programs and other media outlets are 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:44.280 allowed to point out and make fun of and highlight 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.800 corruption in government. That has always been true. It is 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.560 in theory, i would say, still true today. When I 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.720 worked at Saturday Night Live, which was my first job, 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.920 Jim Downey, who's probably the greatest political satirist, he's the 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:02.520 Thomas Nast of his day, really wrote the famous debate 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:08.800 speeches sketches between Bush and Gore in two thousand and 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:14.600 you know, the famous the first debate sketch involved, you know, 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:18.520 summarize your campaign one word in al Gore, Daryl Hammond 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.560 as Al Gore said lockbox, and Will Ferrell as George 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:28.679 Bush said strategiery, and that line stuck to George Bush 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:32.040 so thoroughly. He did have a lot of malaprops in 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:35.160 his day. But there's a large number of people who 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.040 believe that he really said that, that he really said 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.560 strategicy at one point, there's a lot of people who 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:44.320 believe that Sarah Palin said I can see Russia from 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:46.520 my house, she did it. Tina Fay said that as 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:50.480 Sarah Palin on SNL, and that that tradition that is 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.920 very much in the Thomas Nast tradition, right, is the 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.080 there's a difference between the way people understand the world 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:59.600 we live in and the country we live in from 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:04.000 dry media reports about fraud and corruption everything else, and 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.760 the way that we see it through comedy. And comedy 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.920 is often a more powerful weapon and a more direct 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.320 way to make people understand something about government and corruption 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:18.480 and fraud and whatever else is going on than actual news. 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.439 And that's while I was thinking of as you were 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:25.040 telling this story, is is thank goodness that this country 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.399 allows us to do that, because I believe that is 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:32.760 the most effective way often for people to come to 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:36.040 understand what their political leaders are doing. That's what Thomas 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:37.800 an asked did to Boss Tweet, and that's what Jim 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.840 Downey and other folks have done to politicians through SNL 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:43.200 cold opens over the years. 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:47.320 Do you think that culturally we actually kind of underestimate 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.840 the power of jokes? Like can humor still land a 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:57.720 knockout punch? I'm thinking about South Park right now. Yeah, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:02.199 is really appears to be puncturing the armor of this 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:07.600 administration in a very in a startling way. 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.720 I mean, the media landscape in which we currently live 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:12.600 is so much more fractured. You know, at the time, 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:17.119 Harper's Weekly was probably the most powerful and an important 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:21.240 institution in media, and obviously there's you know, there's barely 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.560 newspapers anymore, and now there's barely kind of TV. There's 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.600 no monoculture in TV anymore. We're now in this TikTok 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:32.119 Instagram Snapchat world where things are very, very fractured. Everybody 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.720 has their own algorithm. So the question to me isn't 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:37.520 whether humor can be as potent a tool anymore. It's 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:43.600 whether the delivery mechanisms that we are employing now can 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.840 actually deliver a piece of satire to the world that way, 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.800 or whether people are so siloed off that they'll that, 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:54.280 you know, people a large majority of the public won't 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:55.480 ever see the same thing. 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:57.879 That's my fear. I know exactly what you mean, and 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:01.879 I feel that sense of sort of fracturing culture that 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:07.159 you're speaking to. But I still have this feeling, and 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.120 it may start be transitioning into more of a hope 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:15.000 at this point, but a feeling that truly exceptional work, 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.879 whether it's a South Park episode or you know, a 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:23.320 particularly keen clip of stand up, like the cream still 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:26.520 rises to the top, and it does, it can still 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:29.960 like sort of permeate those I. 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.080 Would hope so, because I think if the story of 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:37.479 Boss Tweet teaches us anything, it's that, you know, that 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:39.960 is what is needed in these moments. What's needed is 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:44.240 a voice of satire and clarity and perspective that can 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.439 cut through and present in a single picture or a 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:50.800 single comedy sketch or a single joke. What it would 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:55.520 take a scholar, you know, hours to properly relay a 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.160 picture of a greedy person as a vulture devouring democracy 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:02.600 is a lot more effective in a single blow, in 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:06.960 a single coup then you know, a lengthy article or 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:09.760 a six part series in the New York Times or 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:10.480 something like that. 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.200 Put in some applause and like, you know, roaring. 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:15.720 Three to four minutes of heart applause. 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:21.880 Yeah, exactly, standing ovation sound effects Jake Johnson's air. Yes, 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:26.160 we of course became acquainted on the movie Tag, which 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:29.720 was just a goddamn delight. How fun was that? I mean, 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:32.359 we had our ups and downs on the production, but 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.200 it was it was a hell of a lot of fun. 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:39.760 Apart from Renner breaking both his arms during a stunt. 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:43.040 Oh my god, remember that crazy day in the church. 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:46.439 Of course, I remember that. Insane Okay, So just for 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.600 the listener, we're doing this scene where Jeremy Renner is 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:53.120 chasing us and he's on he does that Fred Astaire 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:56.560 chair move where he's you know where you like stand 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:58.679 on the back of a chair and then and then 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.240 let it fall down and then you keep going. Only 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:04.520 the sort of bit was that this was a stack 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.200 of like thirty chairs, so it was like twenty feet tall. 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:13.040 Yeah it was. He he and he sort of falls down, 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:17.000 but in a controlled way, off on this stack of 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:19.920 chairs and then keeps running. But and he was wearing 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:24.760 a harness to make the fall smooth and not harmful 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:28.520 to his body. This there was some malfunction. He landed 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:32.160 on both his arms. Both of his arms broke yes 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:35.280