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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of couch Talks.

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Speaker 1: My name is Kat and couch Shocks is the special

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Speaker 1: bonus episode that we put out every single Wednesday where

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Speaker 1: I answer questions that you guys send in and you

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Speaker 1: can send in questions to me at Catherine K A

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Speaker 1: t h R y N at You Need Therapy podcast

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Speaker 1: dot com and hopefully one day I'll get to answering

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Speaker 1: your question. Now. With that, I always like to remind

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Speaker 1: you guys, even though I'm answering your questions, this is

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Speaker 1: not therapy. And yes I'm a therapist, but this podcast

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Speaker 1: is not therapy. However, I would just like to take

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Speaker 1: this time to encourage you guys, if it feels like

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Speaker 1: something that might help you live deeper into your own life,

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Speaker 1: to go out and seek that if it's available. I

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Speaker 1: know that's not feasible for everybody to do, but just

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Speaker 1: to remind you guys that this right here would not

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Speaker 1: be a replacement for that. It's just as an addition.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's nice to have a little addition to

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Speaker 1: the work you're doing. Okay, couch Shocks where I answer

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Speaker 1: your questions. I do two questions a week or try

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Speaker 1: to do two questions, and I keep them anonymous because

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Speaker 1: I just think it's better that way. So I don't

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Speaker 1: always tell you guys when I'm gonna answer them. So

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Speaker 1: that means you just gotta stay on your toes and

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Speaker 1: you know, listen to every episode um to see if

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Speaker 1: I answer your question. And for the first question, I

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Speaker 1: actually reached out to a friend of mine. Her name

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Speaker 1: is Aubrey Henderson, and she might sound familiar to you

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Speaker 1: because she has been on the podcast not once, but twice.

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Speaker 1: The first episode she did with us was back in October,

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Speaker 1: I think, and we did one on befriending your inner critic.

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Speaker 1: And then the second episode we did was just a

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Speaker 1: couple of months ago or weeks ago, months ago, and

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Speaker 1: we did one on breaking up with people. Pleasing. Aubrey

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Speaker 1: is awesome. She lives in New York now, but she

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Speaker 1: went to the same graduate program as me, but does

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Speaker 1: not practice therapy anymore. She practices as a self worth

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Speaker 1: coach and she can do online coaching and all that.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to reach out to her and

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Speaker 1: you think anything in the episodes that she said was helpful,

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Speaker 1: or even when I'm about to talk about now, feel

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Speaker 1: free to reach out to her. She is amazing. Her

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Speaker 1: Instagram handle is awe Bree, so it is at a

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Speaker 1: four h is b r e and she has awesome content,

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Speaker 1: so I highly recommend giving her a little follow. So

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Speaker 1: I reached out to her because I got a question

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Speaker 1: that I wanted to answer, but I also didn't feel

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Speaker 1: like I had the answer. So when that happens, I

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Speaker 1: don't try to make up an answer. I look to

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Speaker 1: the people who would be able to better answer and

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Speaker 1: help me out. So I'll read the question, then I'm

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Speaker 1: going to read directly her response. All right, Hey, Cat,

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Speaker 1: I have a question for a friend. She has a

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Speaker 1: twelve year old daughter who has come to her telling

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Speaker 1: her that she is pan sexual slash non binary. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: she's trying to figure out how to best understand and

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Speaker 1: how to help her SLASH well, they them is the

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Speaker 1: pronoun that she wants to go by. My friend has

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Speaker 1: her with a therapist who specializes in this, but she's

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Speaker 1: wondering if there are any podcasts or groups she can

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Speaker 1: join to help her with this journey. I was hoping

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Speaker 1: maybe you could suggest something for me. All right, I

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Speaker 1: love this question and I think that it's amazing, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't have the resources. So that's why I pulled

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Speaker 1: an Aubrey and this is what Aubrey said. First, it

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Speaker 1: is so awesome that this parent has their child seeing

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Speaker 1: a therapist who specializes in supporting kids exploring their gender.

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Speaker 1: That is so meaningful and will be life changing for

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Speaker 1: this child, and so will the fact that their parents

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Speaker 1: wants to seek out resources and learn more as well.

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Speaker 1: For parents, I really recommend p FLAG groups It's p

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Speaker 1: F l a G if you have them in your area.

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Speaker 1: These are great ways for parents of lgbt Q plus

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Speaker 1: people to connect around shared experiences, get plugged into community,

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Speaker 1: and find the best ways to support their kids. If

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Speaker 1: this parent is looking for a book, The Gender Creative

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Speaker 1: Child by Diane Earnstoft, it's e h R E N

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Speaker 1: S a f T is a great option. Finally, the

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Speaker 1: Gender Reveal podcast is a great resource for the learning

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Speaker 1: about and exploring gender through the experiences of trans people.

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Speaker 1: Big hugs to this friend for reaching out, to this

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Speaker 1: parent for seeking to learn more and support their child,

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Speaker 1: and to this brave kiddo who is living into being

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Speaker 1: their authentic self. So that was Aubrey's response, and I'm

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Speaker 1: so grateful that she took the time to write that

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Speaker 1: out and be so thoughtful with it. Um, So thank

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Speaker 1: you Aubrey, and thank you for also the listener who

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Speaker 1: brought this question in, because I'm sure there's somebody else

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Speaker 1: who's wondering the same thing, and it's scary to ask

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Speaker 1: for help, and and you ask for help not even

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Speaker 1: just for yourself but for your friends. So big deal,

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Speaker 1: thank you for doing that. Let's move to question number two.

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Speaker 1: How does a scapegoat get chosen? Is that even a

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Speaker 1: fair question? I don't think my parents did this intentionally, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So this question I love. That was just very straight

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Speaker 1: to the point, and uh, let's talk about it. So

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Speaker 1: this goes back to an episode I did in the

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Speaker 1: fall with my friend Blair, who was a marriage and

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Speaker 1: family therapist. We did an episode on family roles. I

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Speaker 1: think it was in October as well, and this question

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Speaker 1: is referring to family roles. So there are a couple

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Speaker 1: of basic roles that you can learn more about by

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Speaker 1: going to that episode, and briefly i'll name them here.

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Speaker 1: The mascot, the play cater, the lost child, the hero,

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Speaker 1: and the scapegoat. So those are the basic ones if

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Speaker 1: you go back and listen to that episode, which I

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Speaker 1: highly recommend you doing. You can learn more about all

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Speaker 1: those if you're like, what does this even? What does

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Speaker 1: this question even mean? I highly highly highly highly recommend

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Speaker 1: the episode. But today we're gonna talk about the scapegoat.

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Speaker 1: So the scapegoat is essentially the identified problem child. They're

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Speaker 1: like the black sheep of the family now, and on

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Speaker 1: healthy and dysfunctional family systems, the scapegoat is usually really,

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Speaker 1: this is weird, but it's usually the healthiest member of

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Speaker 1: the family because part of them is like, wait a second,

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Speaker 1: this ship is really messed up, like this is not okay,

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Speaker 1: and so they're acting out from that and in that

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Speaker 1: scapegoats are often referred to or thought of as people

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Speaker 1: who have addiction problems are getting into trouble or a

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Speaker 1: lot or break a lot of rules, and yeah, it

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Speaker 1: can look like that, but they also can just look

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Speaker 1: like the kid who doesn't go along with the status quo.

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't have to be so big and like

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Speaker 1: scary and dangerous looking. It can just be somebody who's

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Speaker 1: not doing what everybody else is doing around them, specifically

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Speaker 1: in their family. They don't have the same belief systems

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Speaker 1: as their family, so even if you want to pull,

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Speaker 1: and it could be like politics or religion. If you

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Speaker 1: have different ideologies from your family, you might end up

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Speaker 1: as the scapegoat. That being said, parents don't necessarily pick

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Speaker 1: the roles for their kids. They aren't like this person

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Speaker 1: is gonna be this, and this person is going to

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Speaker 1: be this. It's a combination of the parents quote unquote

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Speaker 1: scapegoating kid and then a kid acting out because they

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Speaker 1: feel like something is off. And you also go back

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Speaker 1: and listen to the episode I did on Addiction and

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Speaker 1: it's titled how We're Responding to a Broken World. It'll

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Speaker 1: talk about how addiction really when when, when we really

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Speaker 1: get down to it, it is a reaction to the

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Speaker 1: dysfunction that people feel in the world, and it is

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Speaker 1: a way to escape that or heal that, or control

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Speaker 1: that or do something with that. And that's the same

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Speaker 1: kind of thing with scapegoats and families. Now, a parent

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Speaker 1: or a family might scapegoat one member's behavior because it

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Speaker 1: doesn't fall in line with their norms, and in that

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Speaker 1: scapegoating allows the parent to think of the family as

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Speaker 1: healthier than it is, or better than it is, or

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Speaker 1: whatever fill in the blank. Scapegoating also lets apparent minimize

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Speaker 1: their responsibility for like negative outcomes, and it can explain

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Speaker 1: them and take that responsibility off of them for any

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Speaker 1: of their decisions or lifestyles or parenting or any of that. Now,

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Speaker 1: what you also need to remember is that dysfunctional families

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Speaker 1: are all trying to get their needs meant, but they're

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Speaker 1: getting the met and dysfunctional ways. So if your behavior

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Speaker 1: as a scapegoat is trying to signal that something is

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Speaker 1: wrong in this system, you're reacting to a system that

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Speaker 1: is essentially working for everybody else. So it's much easier

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Speaker 1: for a parent to scapegoat your behavior rather than to

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Speaker 1: pay attention to why you might be acting out. Because

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Speaker 1: if they can blame you for the problems or you

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Speaker 1: for your problems, right, if they can blame your problems

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Speaker 1: on you, they don't have to look at their stuff.

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Speaker 1: They don't have to look at the scary things that

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Speaker 1: the dysfunction is kind of masking. They don't have to

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Speaker 1: do any of that, and that is safe. Now. The

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Speaker 1: thing about this, and you'll there's more in it in

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Speaker 1: that episode that we did. But when it comes to

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Speaker 1: scapegoats in the family, sometimes it can feel like you

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Speaker 1: are just like not wanted, or you're you're being pushed

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Speaker 1: out or any of that. But the reality is you

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Speaker 1: really are more important in that family system than you think,

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Speaker 1: and they really need you more than they will admit

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Speaker 1: or you can actually understand. Because when you leave, if

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Speaker 1: the scapegoat leads leave that system, then there's not a

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Speaker 1: buffer to deflect off of. There's nothing to focus on

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Speaker 1: or take the attention off of, So somebody else is

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Speaker 1: going to have to do something in a system. So

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Speaker 1: if you think about dysfunctional family roles, think of it

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Speaker 1: as like almost like a train on train tracks, right,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's working and it's going around the train

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Speaker 1: tracks and all of that. Let's say we pull one

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Speaker 1: of those train tracks away. It's going to cause the

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Speaker 1: you can't just keep going around in circles on those

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Speaker 1: train tracks. You're going to have to adjust the whole track, right,

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Speaker 1: And so when you leave that system, the rest of

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Speaker 1: the system will then have to shift. And that's why

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Speaker 1: you'll see a lot of times when people go to

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Speaker 1: treatment for anything. It could be an addiction like alcohol

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Speaker 1: or drugs, it can be depression, it could be eating disorder.

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Speaker 1: When that family member goes to treatment, a lot of times,

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Speaker 1: the family is like, Okay, go fix your problem. You're

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Speaker 1: the problem. Whatever. It might not be that harsh, but

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Speaker 1: go work on your stuff. Well, in treatment, a lot

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Speaker 1: of times a lot of family stuff comes up, and

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Speaker 1: you'll have things like only weekends and oh man, are

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Speaker 1: those some of the most intense weekends because it's family

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Speaker 1: members coming to listen to these clients that identified patient

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Speaker 1: in the family is what we really call them, identified patients,

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Speaker 1: their stories and just them. And what happens is you

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Speaker 1: pull in the whole family story and family members don't

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Speaker 1: want that because they're fine and if you just fix

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Speaker 1: your behavior, everything would be fine. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to fix your behavior because if

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Speaker 1: you fix your behavior, And keep in mind when I

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Speaker 1: say fix your behavior, I don't really like that I'm

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Speaker 1: saying that, but for the sake of this argument, if

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Speaker 1: you heal whatever thing is dysfunctional in your life, then

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Speaker 1: they are going to be forced to look at their

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Speaker 1: stuff too, and that is really hard. So the long

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Speaker 1: and the short of this is scapegoats are chosen and created.

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Speaker 1: It's a combination of the person who's been scapegoaded and

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Speaker 1: the family. So it's a combination of one of the

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Speaker 1: family members who chooses to see things for what they

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Speaker 1: really are and chooses to find a way to cope

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Speaker 1: with that, and then it's the family member or his

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Speaker 1: way of protecting themselves by focusing anything that might be

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Speaker 1: off in the family or the system on that one thing.

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Speaker 1: It's a protection on both. Really, so the scapegoat is

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Speaker 1: not bad. I mean, I don't think it feels probably

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Speaker 1: good to be the scapegoat in a system, but it

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're bad. And honestly, it's almost like

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Speaker 1: a flag of like, hey, hey, hey, we need some

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Speaker 1: help over here, and some people refuse to acknowledge that,

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Speaker 1: and some people actually will and it just maybe take

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Speaker 1: some time. But for the person who asked that question,

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Speaker 1: I really want to say thank you, because I'm reading

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Speaker 1: it at the shortness of it from a place of

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Speaker 1: belief that it feels like targeted And I want you

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Speaker 1: to know that being a scapegoat essentially sends a message

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Speaker 1: at the same time to somebody like me who studies

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Speaker 1: this kind of stuff that you're really brave, you're really aware,

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Speaker 1: and you have a real shot to change the essential

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Speaker 1: pattern of dysfunction in your family of origin, if and

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Speaker 1: when you choose to create that. So kudos to you,

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Speaker 1: and that wraps up this episode of couch Talks. I

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Speaker 1: want to remind you guys, if you have a question,

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Speaker 1: you can send it into Catherine at you Need Therapy

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Speaker 1: Podcast dot com. You can follow me Cat dot de

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Speaker 1: Fatah and at you Need Therapy Podcast on Instagram and

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Speaker 1: I will see you guys or talk to you guys

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Speaker 1: on Monday