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Speaker 1: Hoo hoo hoo, May Christmas. This is Behind the Bastards,

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Speaker 1: the podcast about Robert trying to do a festive introduction

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Speaker 1: and then losing steam because he didn't really have a plan. Chris,

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Speaker 1: can you insert in a sound of me murdering Santa

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Speaker 1: Claus here and some jingle bells, jingle bells and stabbing?

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Speaker 1: Put it all in right here where we're talking, over

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Speaker 1: us talking. And now I'm going to introduce our guest today,

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Speaker 1: Margaret Killjoy. Margaret, you are the host of a podcast

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Speaker 1: called Live Like the World Is Dying. You just published

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Speaker 1: a book through a k Press called A Country of Ghosts, um,

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Speaker 1: which is fucking awesome. I read it last weekend in

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Speaker 1: a single long day of obsessive reading. How are you

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Speaker 1: doing today, Margaret, I'm doing good, good, Um. Well, Margaret,

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Speaker 1: how do you feel about Christmas? Very complicated? I feel

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Speaker 1: I think most people have complicated feelings about Christmas. How

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Speaker 1: do you feel about heroes? Um? You know, actually also complicated?

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Speaker 1: Also complicated, right, fundamentally problematic idea. Well are subjects today?

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I would call heroes, but I

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Speaker 1: do I think they do the most heroic thing that

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Speaker 1: you can do. Which is, uh, change with the times,

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Speaker 1: rather than repeatedly doing the same thing and hoping for

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Speaker 1: different results. Um, which there's there's an element of heroism. Um,

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Speaker 1: they're also terrorists kind of. Uh so this is going

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Speaker 1: to be a complicated episode, Margaret. Have you heard of

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Speaker 1: the Tupamorrows of Uruguay? I have not. Okay, Well, this

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Speaker 1: is good. And by the way, if you look up Tupamorrows,

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Speaker 1: there's also a Venezuelan Marxist Leninist political party called the Tupamorrows.

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Speaker 1: This is a different, very different thing. Um. If you've

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Speaker 1: heard much about Uruguay and politics in recent years, it's

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Speaker 1: probably that they were the first nation on earth to

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Speaker 1: legalize marijuana. This is back in two thousand thirteen. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They also legalized gay marriage the same year, which was

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Speaker 1: about two years faster than the US of A. Both

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Speaker 1: of these reforms were signed into law under the presidency

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Speaker 1: of a dude named Jose Mujica. Now, if you know

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Speaker 1: a single Uruguayan politician, he's probably the guy. The most

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Speaker 1: prominent piece of international press relating to him is an

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Speaker 1: article from the Guardian in two thousand fourteen titled is

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Speaker 1: this the World's most radical president. And this is the

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Speaker 1: Guardian article is very much like radical from like a

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Speaker 1: centrist liberal standpoint, um, but it refers He's referred to

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Speaker 1: a lot as Uruguay's anarchist president again and a lot

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Speaker 1: of like not anarchist media because he's not. He's not

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Speaker 1: an anarchist, although it is fair to say he's got

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Speaker 1: there's anarchist influences in his in his politics and his attitude. Um.

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Speaker 1: You might have guessed that he's not an anarchist by

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Speaker 1: the fact that he's a president, right, but he is.

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Speaker 1: He's he's he's pretty rad. It's hard not to love

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Speaker 1: this guy when you read about like aspects of his personality.

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Speaker 1: The thing he's most famous for is his humility. Like

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Speaker 1: he drives his own car. He well, usually he rides

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Speaker 1: a bicycle, the same bicycle he's maintained for sixty years.

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Speaker 1: But he has a small Volkswagen he refuses to have

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Speaker 1: like a limo or a driver. Um. He usually wears

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Speaker 1: sandals and like warren Ole, he would just usually he

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Speaker 1: used to wear like stained jumpers was like the only

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Speaker 1: thing he would wear. And they finally got him to

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Speaker 1: like at least wear a clean shirt. So there's like

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Speaker 1: photos of him with like Hugo Chavez and Obama. And

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Speaker 1: he's just like dressed like a dude who lives in

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Speaker 1: Latin America. Is just like going to work. You know.

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Speaker 1: He's like a farmer a lot of the time. Um,

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Speaker 1: Like he runs a farm and has for most of

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Speaker 1: his life. Um. He's just like not a guy who

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Speaker 1: looks like other world leaders. Um. And one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons he's become so popular again is like the every

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Speaker 1: every liberals favorite quote unquote radical politician. Um, was this

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Speaker 1: moment in two that's in fourteen, when he gave a

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Speaker 1: speech to the United Nations that included this bit which

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Speaker 1: Sophie's gonna play for us now, and this is uh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a UN speech. So he's speaking in Spanish,

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Speaker 1: but the UN is, you know, doing They've got like

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Speaker 1: a guy reading in English. So that's not actually Jose's voice.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, and that allows us to contemplate the beauty

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Speaker 1: of nature. We have destroyed the Jungles, the green Jungles,

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Speaker 1: the true Jungles, and we've created anonymous, cemented Jungles. We

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Speaker 1: have tackled uh, sedentarianism with walkers, insomnia with pills, solitude,

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Speaker 1: with electronics, and are we happy when we are so

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Speaker 1: far from the human essence? We have to ask ourselves

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Speaker 1: this question, stunned. We have fled from our biology, which

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Speaker 1: defends life for life itself as a superior cause in itself,

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Speaker 1: and we've replaced it by functional consumerism and accumulation politics. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's uh, pretty rad um for a world leader.

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Speaker 1: And then yeah, that's the most I've ever agreed with

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Speaker 1: anything of president said and long time, especially in the

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Speaker 1: U n UM. I think you'll feel that way about

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Speaker 1: this next segment here too. But today, today, it's time

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Speaker 1: to begin to fight to prepare a world without borders.

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Speaker 1: The globalized economy has no other inclination but private interest,

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Speaker 1: the private interests of very few, and every nation state

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Speaker 1: looks at its own stability. Yeah, so getting up there

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Speaker 1: talking about how we shouldn't have borders, Uh, I don't

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Speaker 1: know that. That's to me pretty rad to hear a

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Speaker 1: president saying at the United Nations. Um. Yeah, And you

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Speaker 1: can see why people, uh, you can see why people

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Speaker 1: win gaga for this guy, right, and why they call

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Speaker 1: him an anarchist because there's there's anarchistic elements of what

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Speaker 1: he's saying, especially the whole we should be moving towards

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Speaker 1: a world without borders. But you know he's also a president, um,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's like, well, we'll talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about Jose later. But one of the things I

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Speaker 1: do think that's interesting about him because you can find

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Speaker 1: other world leaders like saying good ship, talking a good

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Speaker 1: game about all this stuff, and then like going back

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Speaker 1: home to their mansions and taking private jets places, and

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Speaker 1: like Jose does. One of the things that kind of

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Speaker 1: separates him is he um he wears not not only

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Speaker 1: does he like not live in a mansion or anything,

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Speaker 1: but like he flies coach like he's not he's not

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Speaker 1: living to sort of like yeah, but what if he's

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Speaker 1: like a secret mansion bunker underneath his his tiny house. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's it's not impossible. Although most of the time,

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Speaker 1: when like journalists come to visit in him his home,

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Speaker 1: like there's a couple of different stories, like some some

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Speaker 1: Japanese or Korean film crew will come and he'll like

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Speaker 1: meet them at his front door and they'll go drink

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Speaker 1: jim bean under a tree, um, which is how I

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Speaker 1: would create a film crew. If Yeah, that's good because

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Speaker 1: people always talked about that. George Bush was like the

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Speaker 1: president you drink a beer with. That was like his

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Speaker 1: whole thing was like, He's the one you would want

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Speaker 1: to drink a beer with. But I think that the

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Speaker 1: president that you drink Jim being under a tree. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, yeah, I I think that would be

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Speaker 1: I would I would prefer that to like having a

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Speaker 1: staged photo op beer with a president at the White House,

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Speaker 1: which seems horrible. Um. Again, we'll cover later. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of criticisms of of Jose from the left, primarily

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Speaker 1: like most of the people who have issues with him

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Speaker 1: are are like leftists. Um. But what I find more

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Speaker 1: interesting than than his presidency is where he came from,

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Speaker 1: uh and the kind of intellectual and moral journey he represents,

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Speaker 1: not just from himself, but for the political organization that

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Speaker 1: he came from. Because Jose, because Jose Music, got his

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Speaker 1: start in politics through what you might call non traditional means.

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Speaker 1: He was a terrorist as a young man. Um and

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Speaker 1: not like a we're not like like that, not like

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Speaker 1: in a light way like and it got shot repeatedly

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Speaker 1: in gun fights with the cops, way like. He went

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Speaker 1: as hard as he possibly could have um without dying. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And the group that he was a member of is

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Speaker 1: one of the most fascinating insurgent organizations I've ever heard about,

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Speaker 1: the Tupa Morrows. UM. So in order to explain the

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Speaker 1: Tupa Morrows, we're gonna have to get into a little

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Speaker 1: bit of what Uruguay is. It is A. It's a

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Speaker 1: It's the second smallest country in South America. It's like

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Speaker 1: middling sized as countries go. It's about the size of

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Speaker 1: Washington State, UM, which is bigger than a lot of

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Speaker 1: European countries. So it's not not a tiny country, but

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Speaker 1: tiny for South America. UM. Before you know, white folks

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Speaker 1: showed up and started doing what white folks do. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The indigenous inhabitants of Uruguay were the Charua Uh. They

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Speaker 1: had been pushed into the area by another tribe up

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Speaker 1: in Paraguay and the generations before European conquest, and when

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Speaker 1: the Spanish showed up on their shores in fifteen sixteen,

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Speaker 1: their overall response could be best characterized as fucked this ship.

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Speaker 1: You know. They did the they did the fight thing,

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Speaker 1: and they were really good at fighting. They fought like hell,

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Speaker 1: and that synergized what with the fact that Uruguay didn't

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Speaker 1: have anything colonizers wanted at that time. There was no

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Speaker 1: like gold or silver there, so the locals were pretty

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Speaker 1: good guerilla fighters and there wasn't anything valuable, so it

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Speaker 1: didn't really get settled when all, it didn't get colonized,

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Speaker 1: when like all of the areas around it, we're getting colonized.

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Speaker 1: It took longer, so there were some light attempts by

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Speaker 1: the Europeans to settle there in the fifteen hundreds, but

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Speaker 1: the first permanent Spanish settlement there wasn't founded until six

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Speaker 1: teen twenty four at a place called Soriano. About fifty

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Speaker 1: years later, the Portuguese came and built a fort, and

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Speaker 1: this sparked uh in Uruguay rush between Spain and Portugal,

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Speaker 1: who started gobbling up chunks of land as fast as

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Speaker 1: they could. And again the reasoning seemed to be less

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Speaker 1: their stuff here we want, and more the other guys

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Speaker 1: are starting to take stuff here, so we should we

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Speaker 1: should do that. Um it's great. Uh So I went

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Speaker 1: really well for everyone, right, Yeah, I mean it goes,

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Speaker 1: it goes the way it goes in all of what's

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Speaker 1: now Latin America. Terribly, yeah, terribly yeah, terribly all I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess less bad. Uruguay kind of gets off better

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Speaker 1: than well no, not really. Yeah. So today the capital

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Speaker 1: of Uruguay's Montevideo, which was founded by the Spanish in

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Speaker 1: the early seventeen hundreds as like a fortress city and

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Speaker 1: trading port, and it was specifically founded because the Portuguese

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Speaker 1: had buenos aires and so the Spanish needed a port

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Speaker 1: near there that could be their port, right, Like that's again,

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Speaker 1: it's all part of this like co war kind of

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Speaker 1: kind of ship going on between Spain and Portugal. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so for the next century or so, Uruguay wound

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Speaker 1: up in the cross hairs of a bunch of different

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Speaker 1: spats between colonizing powers. And it wasn't just the Spanish

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Speaker 1: and the Portuguese. The British occupy monte Video at some

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Speaker 1: at at one point, like everybody's going through here now,

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Speaker 1: like right, they get kind of a hundred years off

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Speaker 1: compared to everybody else. But once colonizing comes for Uruguay,

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Speaker 1: it comes hard, you know. Um. So people don't often

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Speaker 1: like being battled over by foreign powers. And by eighteen eleven,

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Speaker 1: a guy named Jose Artigas launched a revolution against the

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Speaker 1: Spanish crown, which Uruguay one Artigas was adamant that the

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Speaker 1: new government should be a federal system with high levels

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Speaker 1: of political autonomy for each region. This led to a

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Speaker 1: civil war between the people in Buenos Aires and the

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Speaker 1: people in monte Video. And there's all of this fighting

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Speaker 1: between forces, most of which is like less it's not

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Speaker 1: quite like states fighting as much as it is like

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Speaker 1: it's these cardios, these these war lords right who have

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Speaker 1: like are kind of aligned with one side or the

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Speaker 1: other in control regions, and they're all kind of murdering

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Speaker 1: each other, um, and a civil war, but it's between

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Speaker 1: Buenos Aires. Buenos Aires and Montevideo are kind of broadly speaking,

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Speaker 1: it seems to be like the main sides here um

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Speaker 1: and there there's a bunch of murdering and and all

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Speaker 1: of the fighting in this period effectively wipes out most

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Speaker 1: of the remaining indigenous people in the region. And so

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people in Uruguay have some

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Speaker 1: like like a lot of Latiman have some indigenous ancestry

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Speaker 1: down the line, but like the communities are just wiped out,

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Speaker 1: and most Uruguayans are actually um Spanish and Italian heritage

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Speaker 1: UM kind of as a result of this. Like again

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Speaker 1: we're talking in really broad terms. So when for its independence, sorry,

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Speaker 1: when independence, it wasn't indigenous folks, it was instead they

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Speaker 1: considered themselves that, but it was like the children of

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Speaker 1: children of children of people who had come to colonize.

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Speaker 1: And there was again some like intermarrying and stuff between

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Speaker 1: the communities. But yeah, it was the people who I'm

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Speaker 1: sure at that point considered themselves the indigenous people of

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Speaker 1: Uruguay fighting against the colonial power, but who were also

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Speaker 1: the descendants of Yeah, you know, this is like all

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Speaker 1: a lot of Latin American history, you know. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: so uh. Things started to settle down by the turn

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Speaker 1: of the next century, and in nineteen o three, the

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Speaker 1: fairly new state of Uruguay elected a president named Jose

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Speaker 1: Baz buz A. He's generally just known as buz A.

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Speaker 1: Um was a socialist UM, or at least close enough UM,

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Speaker 1: and the New Republic credits him for building quote, perhaps

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Speaker 1: the most perfectly rendered socialist society of the world has

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Speaker 1: ever seen. Now, that's how the writer from the New

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Speaker 1: Republic describes it. I have found actual academic theses on

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Speaker 1: Uruguay and politics. None of whom say anything close to that. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know, Like the writer from the New

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Speaker 1: Republic actually went there, did a lot of work. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure knows more about our Aguay than me. But I'm

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Speaker 1: sure these scholars no more than that person. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's probably fair to say that it's a little

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Speaker 1: overstated to call it the most perfectly rendered socialist society

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Speaker 1: the world's ever seen. Um. But Baz did do a

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Speaker 1: lot of rad shit. He taxed landowners and he put

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Speaker 1: the money into pensions for working people. He was an

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Speaker 1: advocate of union's. Healthcare in Uruguay was ruled to be

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Speaker 1: a universal right. And this is like in nineteen eleven

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Speaker 1: or something like that. Um. Higher education was made free,

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Speaker 1: and under him the literacy rate hit n UM. And

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote from the New Republic here, quoting a historian.

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Speaker 1: His idea, Girardo Katano, Uruguay's foremost historian of the Baz era,

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Speaker 1: explained to me was that you can't have liberty without equality.

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Speaker 1: There is no psychic liberty, in other words, for the

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Speaker 1: poor unless they can imagine themselves equal to the privileged.

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Speaker 1: One of the many new laws Baz implemented was to

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Speaker 1: correct perceived imbalances and gave women greater rights to request

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Speaker 1: divorce than their husbands. The logic was that men are

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Speaker 1: more powerful, Katano said, so to treat men and women

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Speaker 1: equally would result in an outcome that's still favored men.

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Speaker 1: So this is like again nineteen o three, and I like,

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Speaker 1: this guy is pretty you keep running into this in

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Speaker 1: Uruguayan history. These dudes were like, well, I didn't expect

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Speaker 1: that from somebody saying this in like nineteen o five.

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Speaker 1: People are still struggling with that basic Yeah, like that's

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Speaker 1: incredibly controversial today. And this guy is like, yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: all rubbing dirt into our wounds. And also, you can't

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Speaker 1: just treat men and women equally because structural inequality means

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Speaker 1: that men will still have more power, which is like,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty dope, I would say, pretty dope. Um, And

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Speaker 1: it's it's fair to say, like it is the New

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Speaker 1: Republic overstates things, but it is I think fair to

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Speaker 1: say that like most recently colonized nations and most recently

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Speaker 1: colonized nations in Latin America, because like the eighteen hundreds

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Speaker 1: is kind of the period where a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: you know, have their revolutions and get free from the

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Speaker 1: Europeans who had dominated them. Uruguay winds up better off

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Speaker 1: than a lot of places. Um. But the new Republic

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Speaker 1: does give an incomplete idea of Bezazis time and power.

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Speaker 1: I found a master's thesis from Thomas Moore of Texas

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Speaker 1: Tech which gives it goes into a lot more detail

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Speaker 1: and cites a lot of other scholars um, and notes

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Speaker 1: that buz A socialist reforms weren't just incomplete. They also

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Speaker 1: carried with them the seeds that would sprout right there

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Speaker 1: violently in a few generations. Quote. No matter how democratic

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Speaker 1: the government appeared to be, there were some serious drawbacks

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Speaker 1: and flaws. The main problem which plagued the government for

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Speaker 1: years was that executive responsibility was divided between a president

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Speaker 1: and a national council. This division of responsibility created no

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Speaker 1: serious problems so long as things ran smoothly and all

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Speaker 1: the council members were in agreement. This was apparent during

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Speaker 1: the prosperous nineteen twenties. Presidents and councils could toss problems

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Speaker 1: back and forth with no damaging effect because of the

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Speaker 1: evidence of economic affluence during that period. It was during

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Speaker 1: the depression years nineteen nineteen thirty three that the Collegiato,

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Speaker 1: the National Council um demonstrated its incapacity for coping with

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Speaker 1: a rising inflation and employment. And basically, when there's not

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Speaker 1: factionalism and strong political party disputes, this works okay. When

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Speaker 1: there is everything grinds off, grinds down the gridlock. And

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Speaker 1: in Uruguay you have kind of two broad parties and

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Speaker 1: the history of these parties goes back to the Civil

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Speaker 1: War period. I'm not we don't need to get into

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Speaker 1: a lot, but it's the Colorado Party and the Blanco Party,

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Speaker 1: and um, I think the Colorado Party is kind of

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Speaker 1: broadly liberal ish and the Blanco parties a little more conservative.

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Speaker 1: Um not that they not to like, they don't like

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Speaker 1: graft onto the Republican and Democratic Party obviously right like,

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Speaker 1: but that's probably broadly right. Um. So the president at

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Speaker 1: the time when the Great Depression hits and like ship

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Speaker 1: gets sucked up, is a dude named Gabriel Tera, and

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Speaker 1: he gets piste off at the fact that Council members

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Speaker 1: couldn't come to any solid ideas about how to deal

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Speaker 1: with the economic collapse, right like, nobody can agree on anything,

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Speaker 1: and so this system that had worked when everyone was

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Speaker 1: rich stops working when the money stops flowing, which happens

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Speaker 1: a lot in world history. Um. All of his attempts

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Speaker 1: to remedy the situation got shut down by the Council

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Speaker 1: because of political divisions. So a nineteenth three he bypasses

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Speaker 1: the political gridlock in the council by doing a kudata

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Speaker 1: against his own government. Uh. He dissolves the National Council

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Speaker 1: and Congress, He censors newspapers, and he basically basically makes

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Speaker 1: himself a dictator for a while there. Right, Um, but

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Speaker 1: not quite, because he also calls for a new constitution,

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Speaker 1: which is written nineteen thirty four and establishes a new

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Speaker 1: one man presidency with a Senate which would be permanently

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Speaker 1: divided in half between the two major parties. Um, I

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Speaker 1: don't know that this. I'd say this helped, But like,

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Speaker 1: also by thirty four, things are starting to get better economically,

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Speaker 1: So it's it may be that this reduced gridlock somewhat.

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Speaker 1: It may just be that like money starts coming in again,

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Speaker 1: and so all of the problems are lessened because there's money. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Politics are kind of like a relationship

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Speaker 1: in that regards great until you're broke. Yeah yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: So the problem though with this this new constitution is

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Speaker 1: that it completely enshrines a two part system into law

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Speaker 1: because like you have to have the Senate split between

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Speaker 1: the two parties. It's very immovable two party system. Um.

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Speaker 1: But still like, even though this has got to create

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Speaker 1: problems later, uh, kind of during the late thirties, Uruguay

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Speaker 1: starts doing a lot better. They are in the thirties

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Speaker 1: up to the four and up through like the forties.

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Speaker 1: They're the most urbanized and prosperous nation in Latin America.

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Speaker 1: And this is a very urban country. Most of the

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Speaker 1: population lives in cities, like the vast majority. So it's

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Speaker 1: not like a lot of Latin America where you have

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Speaker 1: like this really geographically spread out populations and a lot

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Speaker 1: of them are in the mountains or something like that. Um.

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Speaker 1: Kind of everybody lives in the cities in Uruguay, and

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Speaker 1: it has the lowest level of social inequality in Latin

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Speaker 1: America and one of the lowest levels of social inequality

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Speaker 1: in the world. Some of this is due to government policy,

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Speaker 1: because baz does do a lot of like good socialist

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Speaker 1: e stuff. Um. But It's also a lot of it

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Speaker 1: has to do with Uruguay and culture, which I'm not

356
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Speaker 1: an expert on but sounds fascinating. One of the cool

357
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Speaker 1: things about it, it's considered to be like the classic

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Speaker 1: car capital of the world, not because everybody's like collecting

359
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,880
Speaker 1: old cars, but because it's considered shameful to not keep

360
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Speaker 1: a car working, like to buy in if you're buying

361
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Speaker 1: a new car too, because your old vehicle cannot be

362
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Speaker 1: fixed under any circumstances um or at least this yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly where it's just like, well, no, you keep fixing

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Speaker 1: the car. You don't buy a new car, like unless

365
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Speaker 1: your car is just like shattered, you know, but season

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Speaker 1: is more like chosen instead of just because goes yes,

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Speaker 1: And there's you know, there's rich people and there's poor people,

368
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Speaker 1: but they often, especially throughout most of the twentieth century,

369
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Speaker 1: you know, you couldn't necessarily tell the difference apart from

370
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Speaker 1: on them based on how they travel or how they dress,

371
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Speaker 1: because there's this distaste culturally for displaying your wealth. So

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Speaker 1: even if you're super rich, you kind of dress like

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Speaker 1: a working class person because that's again it's there's there's

374
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Speaker 1: just kind of like cultural morays against showing off when

375
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Speaker 1: you have money, and that contributes to the lessened levels

376
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Speaker 1: of social inequality in the country. Um. So, when World

377
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Speaker 1: War two comes and knock and Uruguay winds up producing meat, leather,

378
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Speaker 1: and a handful of other goods for the Allies, and

379
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Speaker 1: this is one of the things Bez's, Like the scholars

380
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Speaker 1: I've been reading criticized Bez Force. He kind of started

381
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Speaker 1: this attitude of like, we have this socialist welfare state

382
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Speaker 1: and it's going to be entirely supported by uh, providing

383
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Speaker 1: these products to Western countries. And in fact, whose name Musica,

384
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Speaker 1: the president of Uruguay or former president of Uruguay says

385
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Speaker 1: that basically the big mistake Uruguay made was turning itself

386
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Speaker 1: into a lackey of the British Empire and supplying all

387
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 1: of their needs and kind of tying it's so it's

388
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Speaker 1: welfare state and its prosperity to the British Empire continuing

389
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 1: to need these supplies. Right, um, but during World War two,

390
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 1: it's great to be selling shipped to the British and

391
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 1: the Americans, right. Uh, It's it's a good time to

392
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: be selling them ship. They're buying up everything. Uh, there's

393
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 1: this big economic boom and it again kind of hides

394
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 1: the gridlock, um of the that that has been put

395
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: under this second constitution with a permanent two party state.

396
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: So again, as long as there's cash to blow and

397
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 1: cash to keep the welfare stuff going, everything's all right. Um.

398
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: And in fact Europeans in the forties and fifties called

399
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:16,199
Speaker 1: Uruguay the Switzerland of South America um, which is not

400
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: accurate um and based you know on eurocentrism and ship

401
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: but because they're very much doing their own thing and

402
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 1: they're not all not neutral, not primaria primarily a place

403
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 1: for rich people to store their money. Um. You know,

404
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of reasons why that's not a

405
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: good way to describe them. Not surrounded by mountains that

406
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 1: they've turned Yeah, yeah, it's just because it's nice they're

407
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 1: compared to like a lot of places they're having wars

408
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: and like difficulty, like fighting between the government and Uruguay.

409
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: There's a lot less conflict socially in this period, so

410
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: that they're just like, oh, basically they're saying, we didn't

411
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Speaker 1: funk up Uruguay as much as we sucked up a

412
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Speaker 1: lot of places around it. So it's the Switzerland of

413
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 1: South America. Yeah, you know who else didn't funk up

414
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: Uruguay and definitely isn't neutral. Yeah yeah, yep, all right,

415
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: we're back and we're talking about Uruguay. So, um, things

416
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: are going great in Uruguay through the forties. World War

417
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: two is great for them, and they keep making bank.

418
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Speaker 1: They kind of transition from serving through the British Empire

419
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Speaker 1: to servicing the American Empire through through the Korean War.

420
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Speaker 1: So we keep buying a shipload of stuff from Uruguay

421
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: through the Korean War, and then the United States enters

422
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Speaker 1: a permanent era of peace that was completely unbroken for

423
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Speaker 1: the next seventy years, which is you know, everybody knows

424
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Speaker 1: about that period the packs Americana where where we weren't

425
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: involved in any wars. Um but Agwaiste movement to try

426
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 1: and get us to be involved in wars. All those

427
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: people who wanted us to get into Vietnam. Yeah. John

428
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: Lennon had a big song about that. Yeah, war starting.

429
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: I think if you want to merry Christmas, let's get

430
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: into a war. Um. Yeah. Um, So Uruguay stops getting

431
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: big fat government paychecks after the Korean War and the

432
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: economy contracts heavily, like it's it kind of goes into freefall. UM.

433
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 1: The government short on money. It can't pay for these

434
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: social programs they've built, and they don't want to do austerity,

435
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 1: so they spend, they like burn through the country's currency

436
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: reserves and they start taking on debt from international lenders

437
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,719
Speaker 1: at kind of ruinous rates. This happens to a lot

438
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: of other places in this period of time. This is

439
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 1: kind of like the birth of the kind of global

440
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 1: debt system that exists to this day, because a lot

441
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: of countries get quote unquote like liberated from the colonial

442
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: powers and then take on loans from those powers to

443
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: like anyway, it's it's a fund up period. A bunch

444
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: of fund up ships happening in this period, and it's

445
00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: happening to Uruguay to UM. So this is this is

446
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: kind of disastrous and it leads to a massive political reorganization. UM.

447
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: Members of Congress push a plebiscite UH that the country

448
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: votes on UM and this plebiscite reinstitutes the National Council

449
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: and uses it to replace the presidency. So they get

450
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: now they don't have a president anymore, and they have

451
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: this National Council and the Senate who are trying to

452
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 1: do everything. Um. And even though this is a plebiscite,

453
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: because kind of the social stability is starting to crumble

454
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: in this period of time the mid to late fifties,

455
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: most Uruguayans don't vote for the plebiscite, so it passes

456
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: narrowly and it completely changes the political situation. Um. And

457
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: it does. I'm sorry. That's when that's when the government says, hey,

458
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: we gotta we gotta make a big change and instead

459
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: of doing normal political things, everyone in the country gets

460
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 1: to vote ye your name on this thing that we're

461
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: going to do. It would actually be rabbed if we

462
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: could do some stuff that way, because things might we

463
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: might be able to do some good stuff that everybody

464
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: agrees on. Um, but we can't seem to pass. But

465
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: well never we don't. It's there's a bunch of reasons

466
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 1: why it's not really possible in the US right now. Um.

467
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: And it wasn't great there because like, this is a plebiscite,

468
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: but most Uruguayans don't vote, um. And it's it's about anyway.

469
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: All it does is kind of reinforce the factionalism that's

470
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: been getting worse and worse and worse throughout the twentieth

471
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: century in Uruguayan politics, and in the late nineteen fifties,

472
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: there's just massive unemployment UM and there's these huge labor protests,

473
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of them UM as a result of

474
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 1: the fact that this this welfare state and this kind

475
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,479
Speaker 1: of very pro union environment has like broken down. A

476
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: lot of workers aren't unionized at this point, and a

477
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: lot of them are like starving basically. UM. And the

478
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: National Council, this new government with the National Council, proves

479
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: that they can be as vicious as a government with

480
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: the president. And they cracked down horribly on these protesters,

481
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: Like they Arguay doesn't have a lot of police or

482
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: a big military, but they throw them out there to

483
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: just beat the absolute piss out of people who are

484
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: are protesting. Like that's kind of where the government immediately

485
00:26:54,960 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: goes once Uruguay has its first like mass civil disobedience campaigns. UM.

486
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: What they couldn't have a number of people more they

487
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: are a number of people, the less violent they have

488
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: to be, Like, yeah, some of the most violent police

489
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 1: are the ones who, yeah, you know, that's the way

490
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: that they can take I mean yeah, there's not a

491
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: lot of police in Portland, but they're pretty fucking violent, um,

492
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: so they can. What's interesting to me is that this

493
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 1: National Council government, despite being like very split by the

494
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: two party system, all agree, well, yeah, we have to

495
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: we have to have the police brutalized protesters. But they

496
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: can't agree on anything any ways to fix the economy,

497
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: like they can't, they can't get that together. They're just like, well,

498
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: the poor people are getting organized, so we should like

499
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: funk them up, Republicans and Democrats because it does a bit.

500
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: I only just in this one way, like and that

501
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: everyone agrees, Like I think I've got this right. I've

502
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 1: read scholars who are smarter than me, and this seems

503
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: to be what they're saying, and I'm just sort of

504
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: rephrasing it. I never want to be saying too directly.

505
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: It's just like here, even though there's patterns throughout different

506
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: countries and history that are similar, because people are all

507
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: basically the same aim. So yes in power agree that

508
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: you should beat up the people who are trying to

509
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: stand that. That is the thing that maps onto every

510
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: country ever exactly. It's the uh, it's everything from yeah,

511
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: it's everything. It's every country. It's every government, socialist or capitalist.

512
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 1: Uh people are angry, send the cops and to funk

513
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: them up. Uh So they do that. Yeah, it's the

514
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: people stick in this case. Uh So in nineteen fifty

515
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: well kind of because this is also like this is

516
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: it's not really the people's stick. It's way too much

517
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 1: to call this. It is a country with a lot

518
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: of socialist policies, it's certainly not like a socialized socialist nation. Um.

519
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty eight, there's another election and the party

520
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: that wins is the party who had kind of been

521
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: slightly in the minority before and had never like been

522
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: the party in power. And they win election by promising

523
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: and like take control over all of the government by

524
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: promising to fix a bunch of ship that they've been

525
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: So they've been the minority party for years and had

526
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: thus gained power by saying, look at how much the

527
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: people IMpower wars suck. We'll do it differently. Now they're

528
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: in power and they have to like reform everything. So

529
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: they try to fix the welfare system which was going broke.

530
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: But nothing they do works. Um, and nothing they do

531
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: stops the protests in the labor marches. Now, all of

532
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: this comes to pass in the late fifties as the

533
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: first generation to truly benefit from Uruguay's massive educational reforms

534
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: grows into adulthood. Because remember Baz had made college free,

535
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: and like people after him too, they had been like repeated,

536
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: they built up a pretty good, a really good educational

537
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: system in the country. Um and you know, widespread literacy

538
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: and whatnot. And in like the late fifties, the people

539
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: who were like eighteen to thirty or so are like

540
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: the first generation who had really taken full advantage of this.

541
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: In Uruguay in this period has like one of the

542
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: highest percentages of of individual print publications per capita um

543
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: of anywhere in the world. Um And they had like

544
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: for an dy of like how big this educational boom was.

545
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: Between the fifties and the seventies, the number of students

546
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: receive in college degrees in Uruguay increased by a hundred

547
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: and seventeen percent. So you've got you've got the economy collapsing, inequality,

548
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: growing protests in the streets, increasing government crackdowns, and the

549
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: largest most educated generation in the country's history comes of age. Right,

550
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: what is historically what happens when all those things go

551
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: to go down at the same time. Awesome ship, really

552
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: awesome ship. Yeah, oh, Margaret, you're gonna like some of

553
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: the graffiti we're about to talk about. So by the

554
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: late nineteen sixties, you've got this situation whe Uruguay is

555
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: a decade into the uh well, mid nineteen sixties, you

556
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: get the early to mid nineteen sixties, you've got a

557
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: situation where Uruguay is in a decade into economic contraction globally,

558
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: not just in Uruguay, but like the left all over

559
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: the world in the early and mid sixties is engaged

560
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: in an increasing series of protests and revolts. Domestically, Uruguay

561
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: has this huge population of educated people who have all

562
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time reading Marx and Mao and

563
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: Guevera and Bakunen, and they're they're watching this two party

564
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: system tilt right words and get more violent and militarized

565
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: police for and everything keeps getting worse, right, a situation

566
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: no one else in the world can identify with um

567
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: And all of these trends kind of coalesced, as they

568
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: sometimes do, into a single person, or at least they

569
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: kind of washed through this person and his because of

570
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: unique things about him, it kind of colored the way

571
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: that they flooded over the rest of the population. And

572
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: this guy's name was Raoul Syndic. He was an agricultural

573
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: law student from Montevideo and in nineteen sixty three he

574
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: decided to do something about the fact that all the

575
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: sugar cane and beat cutters, like sugar cane cutting. Sugar

576
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: cane and sugar beat is like this horrible, really unpleasant

577
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: like job that is necessary to process a cash crop, right,

578
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: And these people are despite you know how socialized Diruguay

579
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: is supposed to be, they're not unionized. They're barely getting

580
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: by on poverty rate wages, and they're attempting to unionize

581
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: and protesting against unfair working conditions. And Raoul Syndic is

582
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: kind of like a middle class, upper class like law student,

583
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: and with a bunch of other law students, he tries

584
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: to help organize these workers and they gather a bunch

585
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: of these people together into a march, and they have

586
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: a three hundred and fifty mile protest march into monte

587
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: Video that ends in a huge fight with the cops.

588
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: Um and stuff like this is happening all over the place.

589
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: Raoul is just like one of the organizers who's part

590
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: of this massive labors like labor protests surge at the time. UM.

591
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: The fact that the government had used such violence to

592
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: stop a union drive leads Raoul to kind of reconsider again.

593
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: He'd been a law student. He was planning to like

594
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: work within the system to change it. And seeing the

595
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: police beat the ship out of all these these people,

596
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: UM makes him decide that the two party system is hopeless.

597
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: He's like, well, they're both willing to beat us when

598
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: we when we try to organize for better conditions, So

599
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: why would I try to work within that system? Um

600
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: is kind of what rival thinks. Um, I know wild

601
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: right that you would conclusion become to a very conclusion.

602
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: So he's not the only guy thinking this way. He's

603
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: kind of I think the most arismatic got to think

604
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: this way, and the best probably the best of organizer

605
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: of them. And he starts getting together small numbers of

606
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: like minded men and women. Um, this is a very

607
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: gender equality group that he starts to build. But they're

608
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: all kind of agreed about the fact that they should

609
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: affiliate together and find ways to execute their desire to

610
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: overthrow the government. Right, that's the conversations these people are having. Um,

611
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: and their numbers start to grow. Protests overtook Uruguay in

612
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: streets in the early nineteen sixties, um and um. Yeah,

613
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: all of this state violence keeps bringing more and more

614
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: people to Rule Roule's way of thinking, and the they

615
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: start to kind of formalize their attitudes towards like we

616
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: should be organizing to overthrow this system. Now. One of

617
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: the positives about Rule is that he fucking hated explosives. Um.

618
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: He was like, did not like bombing things. Um. In

619
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: the group like they would eventually use some explosives, but

620
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: they kind of landed on firearms as the natural tool

621
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,479
Speaker 1: to seek to execute some of the things that they

622
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: wanted to do and over to overthrow the government. Um.

623
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: Guns would enable them to carry out a variety of

624
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: actions and do it in a way that would target

625
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 1: people rather than killing like random as much. Yeah, it's

626
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: slightly more discriminate forms of violence. UM. Well it always

627
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: goes well yeah, yeah, and his he was also very

628
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: committed to the idea that you don't target people, you

629
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: target institutions, um, like banks, the police, and the impotent

630
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: government that had been squandering their future. So as they

631
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: increasingly talk and increasing things get more and more formalized,

632
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: they eventually decided to like form an organization which they

633
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: called the Tupamaros UH. Now this was actually an acknowledgment

634
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: of the history of indigenous resistance in Latin America. Tupac

635
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: Amaru was the last living member of the Incan royal

636
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: family and he led an insurrection against Spanish rule and

637
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: was murdered in fifte one. So they kind of as

638
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: they are starting to form what becomes this insurgent organization,

639
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: they're kind of looking back to specifically to get Even

640
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: though most of these people are like primary early Spanish

641
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: and Italian descended Uruguayans, they're they're very much identifying with

642
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: the history of indigenous resistance to colonialism. Like that's it's

643
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: not a it's not for nothing that they name their

644
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: group that um, which is real blurry. Yeah, you know,

645
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: it's like there's a lot that could be said about

646
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: that that I don't quite know how to say, And

647
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: I'm certainly not nearly enough of an expert on like

648
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: indigenous struggles in Uruguay to like try to make more

649
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: of I just think it's worth noting that's who that

650
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: that's what they're trying to signal, Like that's important for

651
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: understanding how they conceive of themselves. Um. The first two

652
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: Tomorrows were largely middle class, young white collar workers and students.

653
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: Since more than half of the Uruguayan population lived in

654
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: monte Video. Most is successful in surgery groups and the

655
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: groups that they're looking at, because they're directly looking at

656
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: like Cuba and che Guevara and stuff, and like a

657
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: lot of the successful and surgeon groups in Mouth that

658
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: they're they're they're um modeling themselves after our mountain fighters, right,

659
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: like because it's the best place to be if you're

660
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: an insurgent' is the mountains, right, That's it's why there's Kurds, right,

661
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: It's because mountains are a good place to fight in

662
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 1: um but u Uruguay. The places where people live at least,

663
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: there's not really mountains. Everybody lives in the city, like

664
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: more than half the population live in monte Video. So

665
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: these are urban guerrillas, and in fact, in Latin America,

666
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, they are the very first urban guerrilla

667
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: organization UM. And so they have to they have to

668
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: carry out and plan and organize themselves very differently. As

669
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: a result, they carry out their first attack in nineteen

670
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: sixty three against the Swiss Gun Club in Montevideo, which

671
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: is like a rich person gun club in the capital. Um.

672
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: Nobody gets harmed in this attack, but they steal dozens

673
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: of guns, which they've always Yeah, you've got to get guns.

674
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: You find the place with the guns, and you rob

675
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: it with the gun you happen to have or stick.

676
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: I think in this case they just kind of burgle

677
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: it because like none of these people were expecting anyone

678
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: to break in and steal their mousers. UM. So they

679
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: get a shipload of guns from the Swiss gun Club.

680
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: They you know, they get handed out to people, YadA YadA.

681
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: UM and from the start, Rule and other early members

682
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: of the group UM knew that it was going to

683
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: be there was going to be state repression at some point.

684
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: And so there's the way it's organized as there's a

685
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: bunch of independent cells that are like five to I

686
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 1: think the biggest ones were like a couple of dozen people,

687
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: but usually like five to fifteen people. And each cell

688
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: is supposed to be have its own find its own

689
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: sources of funding, usually robbing stuff, find its own weapons,

690
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: and be able to completely replicate the entire organization from

691
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: within itself and also be unaware of the other cells,

692
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: although there is like a nine person coordinating council that's

693
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: responsible for organizing stuff. Um so, they you know, they

694
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: set this up in and again they're they're very consciously

695
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: patterning themselves off of other insurgent groups at the time.

696
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: They are not while a lot of their inspirations are

697
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: Marxist Leninists, they're not really Marxist Leninists. A lot of

698
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: inspirations are anarchists. They're not really anarchists. They're very much not.

699
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: While there's a lot of theory and ideology and they're

700
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: reading all of these guys. It's very kind of like

701
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: a pan left insurgent movement. Um Yeah, which is which

702
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: is interesting to me. Um So, from nineteen sixty three

703
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: to nineteen sixty eight, their attacks gradually escalate again. Their

704
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: first actions get them guns, which they then used to

705
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: carry out what they call armed propaganda. Now, this is

706
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: a local idea in Uruguay and radicalism that that is

707
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: influenced by the old anarchist idea of propaganda of the deed.

708
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: Right in the late eighteen hundreds and nineteen hundreds, anarchists

709
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: are murdering presidents and kings and in the hope of

710
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: inspiring other people to do more of that so that

711
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: eventually there's no presidents and kings. I think that's like

712
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: a fair broad strokes description of the idea. The idea

713
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: was like, these people don't know how to read texts,

714
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 1: let's show them what we mean, which actually didn't start

715
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 1: out as UM didn't actually start out as assassination, to

716
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 1: start out as like burning property records and like answer

717
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 1: and what's interesting to me about the Tupamorrow as you said,

718
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: the propaganda of the deed didn't start out is being

719
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: based around murdering people Tupamorrow armed armed propaganda is never

720
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: focused primarily around killing people. There, that's aspects of it

721
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: later on UM, But from the beginning they have a

722
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: very different attitude for what armed propaganda should be. And

723
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote from a rite up by a War

724
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: is Boring article about their first action. One of their

725
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: first actions quote. One of the group's first actions involved

726
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: hijacking a truck filled with chickens and turkeys that was

727
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 1: headed to a Christmas banquet. Twenty Tupamorrows holding revolvers and

728
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,919
Speaker 1: knives attacked the truck. They called themselves Junior Jose Artigas Unit,

729
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: a reference to Uruguay and independence fighter Jose Gervasio Artiguas.

730
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,280
Speaker 1: The tupamorrow Is left a note that read revolutionary share

731
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: in the Christmas of the poor and call upon them

732
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: to form committees in each district to fight against rising prices.

733
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: They handed out the turkeys and chickens and poor neighborhoods

734
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: of the capital. Yeah, so, like that's the armed propaganda,

735
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: Like we're going to use our guns to rob a

736
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: banquet for rich people and redistribute the food to the poor,

737
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: which is great. That's awesome, Like it's hard to have

738
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: an issue with that, right, Yeah. Yeah, So, over the

739
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: next couple of years, the tup Tomorrows engage in ever

740
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: grander acts of armed propaganda. They would rob banks and

741
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 1: take piles of cash and redistribute it immediately to the poor.

742
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 1: They would also rob banks to like fund their operations,

743
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: but a lot of time they're taking cash and then

744
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: immediately handing it out to poor people, and it's like

745
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 1: they're robbing specifically often investment banks and saying like these

746
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: people have been robbing you, so let's rob them and

747
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: give it back to you. Um. At one point they

748
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: hoisted a popular casino for foreigners and the resort town

749
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: of puntadale Este, and they realized after they get away

750
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: with the bag that they had also stolen the employee

751
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: pool of tips, which they return because they're like, we're

752
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: not here to funk with working people, like your tips

753
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 1: are yours? Like, we're not taking your fucking tips, don't

754
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: worry go. That is classy as hell, where they're like, well,

755
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: we wanted to steal from this casino, but we didn't,

756
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: like we understand you guys work in there, like you

757
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: didn't do nothing on here's your tip money back. Um.

758
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 1: And the fundamentally pro social ends of most Tupamarow crimes

759
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: endear them to people write like they're extremely popular obviously, um,

760
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: their antics make them famous the world over. One time

761
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: they robbed a fancy nightclub and spray so like they

762
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: go into this rich person night club in a nice

763
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: part of Monte Video and like Robert at gunpoint and

764
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: then they spray paint on the wall. Everybody dances or

765
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: nobody dances. U. Um yeah, that's just incredibly incredibly cool. Um.

766
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: Time magazine declares them the Robin Hood Guerillas and their

767
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: motto evinced. They also had a motto that kind of

768
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: I was saying. They're very pan leftist and open minded

769
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 1: towards questions of tendency and political theory. And their motto

770
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 1: is words divide us, action unites us. Okay, m hmm,

771
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 1: Like in these guys so far, Um, yeah, yeah, they're

772
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: they're pretty dope. So one of these guerrillas is a

773
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: young Jose Musica Um, you know, the for the future

774
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: president of Uruguay. Pepe, as he's most commonly known, was

775
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 1: born on May nineteen thirty five to a poor farming

776
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: family outside of Montevideo. He was the first born of

777
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: several brothers. His family was Basque on one side and

778
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: Italian on the other. His dad was the foreman for

779
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 1: a small farm which went belly up when Jose was five.

780
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: When he was in third grade, at I think age eight,

781
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: his dad dies, which throws the family into total poverty.

782
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: It forces young Pepe to take to the streets selling

783
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: flowers and working as a bakery to support his siblings

784
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: and his mom. He was from an early age a

785
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: generous person. Walter Purnas Mujica's biographer notes that as a child,

786
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 1: Jose offered all of his toys to other kids in

787
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 1: the neighborhood because he wanted to share everything that he had. Um.

788
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: He was born about six years after the death of Baze,

789
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 1: that president who had made all that lovely policies. Um.

790
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: And even though he grew up during what has generally

791
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: seen as Uruguay's old in years, his family is dirt

792
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: poor and he is mired in poverty, so he never

793
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: he doesn't have like a Rosie lens towards the past.

794
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: He's very progressive in part because he comes up during

795
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: Uruguay's golden age and like, yeah, life's sucking hard for

796
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: poor people. Yeah. Um. One of the most influential moments

797
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:18,959
Speaker 1: in his young life is there there's a butchery near

798
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: his house, um, and the union for it is an

799
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 1: anarcho syndicalist union, and the workers there go on strike

800
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 1: and during a negotiation they get angry at their employers,

801
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,439
Speaker 1: so they hold up his trucks at gunpoint and redistribute

802
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: all the meat in them to the poor. Um. So

803
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 1: this is like one of the defining moments of Jose's

804
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: childhood is being like, oh, that's pretty You see why

805
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: this guy becomes at tubamorrow because he's like, oh yeah

806
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: that that fucking rules. Yeah um one day. Yeah, that's

807
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: how I ate one day. I know what I know

808
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,439
Speaker 1: what makes people appreciate an organization is when they help

809
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: you eat. Yeah. Um yeah, it's pretty pretty rad. Uh.

810
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: The action stirred something in him, and given the similarities

811
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: betwe this in a lot of Tuop tomorrow action. Again,

812
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: it's easy to see why he winds up where he is. Uh.

813
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: He's also political and kind of the legal sense from

814
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: an early age. His uncle is a nationalist and part

815
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 1: of the National Party. Um, and he becomes a general

816
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: secretary for the youth of that party. Uh. There's a

817
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 1: passage from The Guardian that gives good insight into how

818
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: his initial foray into legitimate politics led to his radicalization. Quote.

819
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 1: As a young man, Mujica went for went to work

820
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 1: for Enrique Arrow, a popular left wing politician, but had

821
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: a political epiphany when he met che Guevara in post

822
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: revolutionary Cuba. As much of Latin America fell victim to

823
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: crises in decline, it was an Uruguayan writer, Eduardo Gagliano,

824
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: who penned a new bible for the continent's left wing.

825
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: The Open Veins of Latin America. The human murder by

826
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: poverty in Latin America is secret, Galliano wrote in nineteen

827
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: seventy one. Every year, without making a sound, three hiroshiuma

828
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: bombs explode over communities that have become accustomed to suffering

829
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: with clinched teeth. She is a good way to phrase

830
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: the devastation that poverty reeks in a pop elasition like

831
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: the West is nuking us every year, um, you know,

832
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: as a result of and our our leaders are nuking

833
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: us every year as a result of like starvation. By

834
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four, after a year of escalating robin hood

835
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 1: raids by the tupamarrows and several years of escalating police violence,

836
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: Jose two decided that his country's political system had left

837
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: him with no peaceful options. So he tries to get

838
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: into legitimate politics, but he's very influenced by Seguavarre in

839
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 1: particular UM, And in nineteen sixty four he decides, like

840
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: fuck it, I'm going to join the guerrilla, and he

841
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,879
Speaker 1: joins the Gorilla Um. He receives training, and he's soon

842
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: living a split life. By day he's a humble farmer,

843
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: and by night he's a revolutionary robbing banks and ship.

844
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 1: He joined at a period when the Tupamarrows were rapidly

845
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: expanding and growing more comfortable with increasingly extreme acts of

846
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: armed propaganda. In nineteen sixty five, the Tupamarrows bombed a

847
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: local Bear factory. Um and their justification for this, So

848
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: they blow up this factory because Bear internationally is making

849
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: gases used by the US military in Vietnam. So it's

850
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: very much an attack. And it's one of I think

851
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: it's their first attack where it's not like we're doing

852
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: this to protest local things. We're doing this to assert

853
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: ourselves as part of the international struggle. Yeah and uh yeah,

854
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: pretty interesting. Um, and things escalate from there. I want

855
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: to quote now from a graduate thesis by Thomas Moore

856
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: of Texas Tech University. Quote the two p Tomorrow suffered

857
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: their first fatality in December nineteen sixty six, two weeks

858
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: after a robbery at an armory, police located a vehicle

859
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: that was suspected to have been involved. While in pursuit,

860
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: a fierce gun battle erupted between the police and the

861
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: occupants of the vehicle. During the battle, the vehicle ran

862
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: into a tree and the occupants fled on foot. One

863
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 1: of the occupants, later identified as Carlos Flores Alvarez, remained

864
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: behind and covered his comrades retreat with machine gun fire.

865
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,240
Speaker 1: The police returned fire and Flores Alvarez was killed. Inside

866
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: the vehicle were two more machine guns and two pistols.

867
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: Less than a week later later, another shootout with police

868
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: cost the life of Mario Robiana Mendez, another tupamarow. So

869
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: the first couple of years they've got going on, nobody

870
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: gets killed. Everything's pretty I mean like violent, like violent

871
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: in that they're using weapons and stuff, but like it

872
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: they avoid things escalating to that level. Sixty is when

873
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 1: like now we're getting into gun battles and the cops

874
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: and people are and people are dying. Um. And occasionally

875
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 1: it's like people who are bystanders who are shot by

876
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: either the tupamaros over the or the cops not intentionally,

877
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: but because they're firing machine guns at each other wildly

878
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 1: in a city. You know, like like car chases are

879
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: not exactly safe for it's not safe for anybody. Um.

880
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: And again they avoid as much as possible direct gunfights

881
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 1: with the police. Like, this is never something they seek out.

882
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: They are never like let's ambush a bunch of cops

883
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: and kill them kind of group. Like when they ambush police,

884
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: it's generally to let's take their guns and like then

885
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: rob this place and tie them up and stuff. Um.

886
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: And this is largely just like it's not smart to

887
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 1: get into a bunch of gunfights with the cops because

888
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: your guys get killed. Um Yeah, it's usually yeah, not

889
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: the strategic choice that one could make. Yeah, you guys

890
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: and your ladies. Because kind of like the p k K,

891
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: but much earlier, the Tupa Marrows are like very gender

892
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: equal um. And like one of the decisions they come

893
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: to early and it's like there's no reason women shouldn't

894
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: be fighting too. Um. So a lot of the people,

895
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: some of the people who die are like women who

896
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: are getting into machine gun fights with the cops. Um.

897
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: In this group, it's a very like egalitarian insurgent organization.

898
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: We can all get we can all get murdered by

899
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: the state. Everyone is able to do that. Um. Now,

900
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: the Tupa Marrow organizational structure, the fact that there's all

901
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,479
Speaker 1: these independent cells allows for a tremendous amount of group

902
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: autonomy and experimentation. I haven't found much about this, but

903
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: one of the cells has led by a priest, and

904
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: I'm really interested in, like how that went down. Yeah, yeah, uh,

905
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: the whole liberation theology you think went on, and that's

906
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 1: big in Uruguay. Yeah. Yeah. In ninety sixty six, a

907
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: monte Video theater was putting on a production of a

908
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: play that necessitated military uniforms and rifles for some of

909
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 1: the actors because it's good. Pr the military is like, yeah,

910
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: we'll loan you guys outfits and we'll give you some

911
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: Mouser rifles. And so they're just being like stored at

912
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: this theater. And so one day before the play, a

913
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,760
Speaker 1: group of pistol armed Tupamorrows like busts in and steals

914
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: all the guns in the uniforms. Then they dress up

915
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: as soldiers and they rob a bank, making off three

916
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 1: and one thousand paces, which is fucking very funny. Yeah,

917
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:31,479
Speaker 1: I hope it was someone who worked at the theater.

918
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 1: Tip to mof I think it was, like, I believe

919
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: it was an employee at the theater who was like

920
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: a Tupamorrow or sympathetic who like tells them there's this

921
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 1: stuff here. Yeah. It was from It was like oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

922
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: give us some mousers, you know, the show be more

923
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: authentic if you yeah, mousers. Yeah, and some big machine guns.

924
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: Really a lot of ammunition for set dressing. Yeah. In

925
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, the government struck back, rounding up several

926
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: dozen Tupamorrows and building what they thought was an accurate

927
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 1: picture of the group's membership. So this big bank rate

928
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 1: like inspired like the government does a huge crackdown. They

929
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,720
Speaker 1: actually catch and arrest a bunch of Tupa Morrow's um

930
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: and they feel like, oh, we know who everyone, we

931
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: know everything. Now we've got like this whole organization dead

932
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 1: to rights. Let's roll them up. And they they arrest

933
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: a bunch of people and think that they've they've destroyed

934
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: the organization, and so they announced in the press that

935
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: they've dealt a mortal blow to the Tupa Marrows. Now

936
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: this was a mistake for the state because they actually

937
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: had not um, and the tupamorrow proved that with the

938
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 1: launch of their next major operation, the incredibly named Plans

939
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: Satan Wow. I hope it was the priest who came

940
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: up with it. Yeah, it's a fucking price. Yeah. So,

941
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 1: as their war had escalated, a number of guerillas had

942
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: suggested they start assassinating government officials in the street. Um

943
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: decision Satan, Well, that's not what plans, Satan is because

944
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 1: they don't they do eventually do that. They don't start

945
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: doing that because they're like, well that might backfire maybe,

946
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: like they're never that operation. It just to escalate towards

947
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: it does because they decide instead of assassinating people, they're

948
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 1: going to carry out a campaign of kidnapping prominent business

949
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: leaders and politicians and then ransoming them back to fund

950
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: the revolution. Um. And also, this will this will show

951
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: that the state is ineffective, right, Like you can't even

952
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: stop us from kidnapping government ministers, Like, clearly you're not

953
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: capable of running this country, right. That's like the big

954
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: idea behind this is like we will show the people

955
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: that the state is not capable of governing them by

956
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: proving how impotent it is. That's that's kind of there,

957
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: like the propaganda justification of this, I mean, they can

958
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: also backfire really easily. It does like we need the

959
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: state because people are running around kidnapping people. Yeah, it

960
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: doesn't quite. I mean, we'll talk about there's a lot

961
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 1: of debate over the gree to which this backfires. Um,

962
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: but our Peppe, our future Uruguayan president, is intimately involved

963
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,919
Speaker 1: in Planned Satan And I'm gonna quote from the Guardian here.

964
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 1: I love that one managed to get elected after being

965
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: part of plans Yeah. Yeah, a guy who was part

966
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 1: of Plans Satan gets selected precedents. It's it is, it's

967
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 1: pretty dope. It's it's it's extremely dope. Yeah, So from

968
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,439
Speaker 1: the Guardian quote. On a spring day in nineteen sixty nine,

969
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 1: Manus was at home with his sister Beatrice when the

970
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 1: future president burst out of the lift outside of their

971
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: penthouse in Montevideo with a pistol in his hand. Turn around,

972
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 1: shut your mouth and keep your hands above your head,

973
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,399
Speaker 1: he barked. Manus immediately recognized the pinched eyes and thick,

974
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: wavy brown hair of one of the most notorious members

975
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: of the daring violent Tupamaro guerrillas. After his initial sense

976
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: of panic subsided, he recalled he felt strangely calm. I

977
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 1: remember telling the young gunman who was with him not

978
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: to worry that I wasn't going to do anything, the

979
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: sixty two year old travel agent told me when we

980
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: met in his favorite Monte Video bookshop, a short distance

981
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: from the murky waters of the Immense River Plate. His sister,

982
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,760
Speaker 1: who suffered from polio and used a wheelchair, was taken

983
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,879
Speaker 1: off to another room. Don't worry, Mouica Musica told her,

984
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: You'll be fine. This has nothing to do with you.

985
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: Um and yeah menaces. Stepfather, Jose Pedro Purpura, was a

986
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 1: notorious judge with ties to Uruguay's far right and a

987
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: stock of pistols. After the gang had left, taking documents

988
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 1: and weapons, Many's told his relatives that he was only

989
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: upset that the two Pamorrows had stolen a typewriter he

990
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 1: used for his schoolwork. The following day, the phone rang,

991
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,879
Speaker 1: It is us, the same people from yesterday, A voice said.

992
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: He suddenly felt scared again. Somehow they knew about the typewriter.

993
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: If he wanted it back, the voice told him he

994
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,760
Speaker 1: could find it in the lobby of a nearby building.

995
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: Sure enough, it was there. He said. They had left

996
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,720
Speaker 1: a type typed message in it for my stepfather, careful doctor.

997
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: It read, we are watching you. Yeah, hey, kids, we

998
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 1: know this In your fault, but we gotta take your

999
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 1: stepdad's guns. Um, oh, we stole your typewriter. We'll give

1000
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: it to you back, but we're also going to send

1001
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 1: a threat for your stepdad. Um, it's it's pretty it's

1002
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: pretty pretty funny. Yeah, I'm glad they kept a classy longer,

1003
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: like keeping fairy classy, because most groups start a little

1004
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:25,439
Speaker 1: classy and then get real bad, real quick. We can debate.

1005
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: I don't think they ever get real bad. They do

1006
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: get much more violent, and then you get comfortable assassinating

1007
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: people and like you can feel about that the way

1008
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: that you want. They are never like the I Rara

1009
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: where they're setting off bombs and bars filled with just

1010
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: random people. Like, they do not do that kind of ship. Right.

1011
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 1: There are civilians who get killed as a result of

1012
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: their actions, never intentionallymore as like, yeah, we're we're it's

1013
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: not that like, we're not going to set off a

1014
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: bomb and it kills people and we're fine with that,

1015
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: But we are going to get into gunfights with the

1016
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: cops sometimes and people will die as a result of that. Right,

1017
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 1: But they don't get in the people's death. They do

1018
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: not put on a an ethical No, there's an ethical

1019
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: line somewhere, and I don't know where to draw that

1020
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: kind of line. They do, know what I My ethical

1021
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 1: line I guess is they do not as far as

1022
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 1: I've read, they do not target groups of civilians for

1023
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: murder in order to create fear. Yeah. That that's not

1024
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: a thing that they do which is good people, which

1025
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: is good. I think that's a bad thing to do.

1026
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: Like I think it is worth stopping people here that Yeah,

1027
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 1: for all of my enjoyment of IRA music, I think

1028
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: bombing random bars is bad behavior. No, sir, Some other

1029
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 1: people have done similar anyway, A lot of people have

1030
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: done similar things. Yeah. Um, and it's it's never a

1031
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: good thing. I don't like. You know, I call them terrorists, um,

1032
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: because they are. Um. But there's a spectrum of things

1033
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: that you can do as terrorists. Um. And they are

1034
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 1: not like, let's set off a suicide bomb in the

1035
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 1: middle of a packed market. That's not these dudes and ladies.

1036
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:02,839
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know who does set off bombs and whit? No? Okay, Um,

1037
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: savings bombs yea, savings bombs bombs of financial with the

1038
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: line responsibility. Those kind of bombs, the best kind of

1039
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: bombs are products now you got you got out punned

1040
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: on that one, my friend. Yeah, that was that was

1041
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: much better. All right, we're back and I'm going to

1042
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: continue to try to pronounce Jose music is name, right.

1043
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: I keep needing to listen to the pronunciation because it

1044
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: might I keep drifting as I read it. Um, but

1045
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 1: Jose Musica was part of Some of them were creative

1046
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: acts of armed propaganda that the Tupamarrow's breached out into.

1047
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote from that same article, The Guardian

1048
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: article quote. In the summer of nineteen sixty nine, a

1049
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: police officer knocked on the door of a small monte

1050
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: Video investment bank, which was partially owned by a government minister.

1051
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: The employees let him in, only to discover he was

1052
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: a tupamorrow. Several other guerillas followed. They took the equivalent

1053
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 1: of a hundred thousand dollars in today's money, but also

1054
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:09,439
Speaker 1: demanded the bank's account ledgers. One of the employees, Lucia Topolanski,

1055
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,879
Speaker 1: had tipped off the Tupamorrows that the bank was doing

1056
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: illegal currency deals. Her twin sister, Maria Elia, was one

1057
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: of the guerrillas who conducted the raid. The Tupamrrows dropped

1058
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: off the ledgers at the home of a public prosecutor,

1059
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: and some of those involved in the illegal trading were

1060
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: subsequently jailed. Um, that's fucking awesome. We're going to rob

1061
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: this bank to get evidence of corruption and government and

1062
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 1: then we will hand that over to a prosecutor. Right

1063
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: and again you see like this is there. They are

1064
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: such a creative and flexible group that they're like we

1065
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 1: are trying to overthrow the state. We're also not against recognizing, oh,

1066
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: this prosecutor is an honest man, will give him information

1067
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: that will that will reduce corruption and stuff, because that's

1068
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 1: also good. Like they're they're they're they're very pragmatic and

1069
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: willing to embrace like a real diversity of tactics, like

1070
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: they're doing a lot of different ship and also very

1071
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: like I think that shows the sort of non ideological

1072
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: nature because I have a hard time, Yeah, I mean

1073
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 1: up with someone who with with almost any isms, including

1074
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: my own, who would do that, yeah, do that? Yeah, yeah,

1075
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: But they're very much Um, yeah, they're very They're very

1076
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: good at pivoting, and this is the thing throughout there

1077
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: up to the modern point, they're really good at just

1078
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: like kind of flowing um, which I think is why

1079
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: they have the impact that they do. That said, nineteen

1080
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: sixty nine was what you might call the last good

1081
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: year for the Tupamorrows, because after this point things get

1082
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: a lot less fun and creative and a lot more

1083
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: violent and funked up and scary, which is inevitable when

1084
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: you are trying to overthrow a government using force. Right,

1085
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: Like that is every single one of these stories. Um.

1086
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 1: Things come to a head first near the end of

1087
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,479
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, when the tupamorrow Is execute a raid

1088
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: on a town called Pondo, which is like a part

1089
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: I think it's like, it's kind of a neighborhood of

1090
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 1: it's called a town. It's kind of like I think

1091
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: it's more of a town at this point. It's now

1092
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: I often hear a refrid to it, just like a

1093
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: part of Monte Video. But it's like a it's it's

1094
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: high end, um, right, it's a it's an area in

1095
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 1: this urban sprawl where people with a lot more money live.

1096
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: And on October eight, the Tupamorrows carry out their largest

1097
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: action ever, more than a hundred guerillas um a symbol

1098
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 1: inside Pondo and in order to all get together and

1099
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: into position that being noticed. A lot of them dressed

1100
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: in a costume as members of a funeral entourage in

1101
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: order to elude suspicion. Once the signal was once they're

1102
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: um in pondo groups of five to ten guerrillas a

1103
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 1: symbol outside a series of targets, and at one o'clock

1104
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 1: a signal is given. Commandos put on white arm bands

1105
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: to identify themselves in the even of a gunfight, and

1106
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 1: they carry out simultaneous attacks on the police commissary, the

1107
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: police station, the fire department, and two local banks. And

1108
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: again they never their goal is never to get into gunfights,

1109
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: so these are not they're not just like coming and

1110
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: shooting to murder people. There's almost no resistance and so

1111
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: nobody gets killed initially, like they're they're just taking guns,

1112
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: tying up people, you know, like they're there to raid

1113
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 1: and rob and take ship. They're not attempting to murder everybody.

1114
00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: UM and another group, one of the groups raids the

1115
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: bank armed with machine guns and pistols, and while to

1116
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: tupamrrows remove money from the bank. A third hands out

1117
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: leaflets to civilians at the bank explaining why they're taking

1118
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: the money and what they're going to do with it, um,

1119
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: which is again awesome. So they everything works out. The

1120
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: initial stage of this raid goes great. They steal millions

1121
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 1: of pacos, but as their ex fol trading, they've got

1122
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 1: like a caravan of vehicles leaving. The police catch up basically,

1123
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: and there's a series of gun fights. There's a car

1124
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: chase and a roadblock and like the founder of the

1125
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: role gets away with the money, but like a group

1126
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 1: of Tupa Morrows get their vehicle stopped and like have

1127
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: a big gunfight with the cops. Three Tupa Morrows get

1128
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: killed in twiny get captured. Um, so it's it's a

1129
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 1: it's it's a very like pyrc victory right, Um, yeah,

1130
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 1: and it's it. Things get a lot uglier for the

1131
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: Tupa Morrows after this point. Um. For their part, they're

1132
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 1: panning out the flyer. I mean someone designed it, and

1133
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: so somewhere there's someone who went to school for graphic

1134
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 1: design who's like, this is my contribution. I'm the flyers.

1135
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: That person. I hope that person made it through the

1136
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: entire thing totally unscathed. Her grandkids are like, you wouldn't

1137
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 1: believe what Grandma used to do. Yeah, she was in

1138
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: that gunfight with the cops. Yeah, she made the flyers. Yeah.

1139
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 1: So everything gets uglier though after this point. Now, for

1140
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 1: their part, in terms of things getting uglier, the t

1141
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: start carrying out target assassinations of some government officials in

1142
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:32,919
Speaker 1: police officials. At this point, um. And for it's part,

1143
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 1: the government cracks down by going ultra authoritarian. And I

1144
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: think the two per Mars would argue, we started assassinating

1145
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: people when the government started torturing our people, right. Um.

1146
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: I think the police would say that, like the Tupamrrows

1147
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: were so violent that like we had to use these

1148
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: these radical measures. I think the torture comes first. Um.

1149
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 1: From what I can read, their Tupermorrows are being tortured

1150
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,919
Speaker 1: by the time they start carrying out assassinations. Um. And

1151
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 1: the government also cracks down by restricting freedom of speech,

1152
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 1: so the news media is forbidden to refer to the

1153
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: Tupamarrows by name. Um. And in order to get around this,

1154
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 1: the Tupamorrows set up a radio transmitter in monte Video

1155
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 1: to hijack government run radio channels and broadcast propaganda about

1156
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: their actions. Um. Which is again, are they during all

1157
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 1: this quite We'll talk about that in a bit, but

1158
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 1: like that's part of why they get away with it

1159
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: is most of the people seem to be pretty supportive

1160
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 1: of this, Like they're extremely popular. UM. In July nineteen seventy,

1161
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 1: the tupamrrows made would prove to be one of their

1162
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 1: worst strategic decisions. They kidnapped Dan Matrion, an American citizen UM,

1163
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 1: which is always a dicey thing to do, especially for

1164
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 1: a leftist movement in nineteen seventies Latin America. UM. Yeah. Now,

1165
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,920
Speaker 1: one source I found described Dan Matrio as quote an

1166
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: American policeman on loan to the Uruguayan security forces. I've

1167
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: also heard him described as an FBI agent working with them.

1168
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: When you hear an American policeman on loan to the

1169
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: Uruguayan security of wars is what do you assume his

1170
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 1: was his actual employer? Yeah, it's the c i A.

1171
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 1: And Dan Matrio's job is to teach people how to

1172
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 1: do torture. UM. He had previously consulted for the Brazilian

1173
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 1: government and his specialties were electrocution and slow strangulation. So

1174
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 1: I feel really good about that having chosen I'm like,

1175
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 1: how it wasn't a strategic plan. It's not a good

1176
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: strategic move morally, if your job is to travel to

1177
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: different countries and teach them how to strangle people. I

1178
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 1: don't think you getting kidnapped as bad that. That is

1179
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: my moral line. Yeah. Um, and I'm going to quote

1180
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: from a write up by war is Boring here. While

1181
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 1: torture was part of the government's unofficial policy prival to

1182
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 1: Matrio's arrival, he is often create credited with making it

1183
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 1: widespread among the Uruguayan police force and extolling the value

1184
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 1: of applying quote and this is Dan, the precise pain

1185
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 1: and the precise place and the precise amount for the

1186
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: desired effect. He was known in particular for his expertise

1187
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 1: in applying as much electrical doc as possible to the

1188
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: genitals without causing death, and for pioneering the use of

1189
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 1: thin wire that could be placed between the teeth to

1190
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 1: intensify pain during electrocution. So a cool dude, Dan, Yeah,

1191
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 1: definitely not just the fodder of like every trashy spy

1192
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 1: movie ever. You know that this guy has like black

1193
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 1: gloves that are very yeah, and some weird sexual hang ups.

1194
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 1: Probably a serial killer back in the US. Yeah, and

1195
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 1: like particular about how where everything in the apartment goes.

1196
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 1: So the Tupamrrows responded to the escalation of violence and

1197
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 1: kind and specifically targeted Matrion. They kidnapped the CI agent

1198
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: in July of nineteen seventy. The Tupamrrows rarely killed anyone

1199
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 1: and did not have a reputation for killing those they kidnapped. Instead,

1200
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 1: they would exchange them for cash ransoms or release them

1201
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 1: of the imprint of imprisoned tupamarrows. However, with the government

1202
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: assault on them proving more effective, several leaders of the

1203
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: movement were killed or arrested while Matrion was being held

1204
01:04:57,080 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 1: in the Tupamrrows Underground People's Prison. When the headline for

1205
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: Matrion's ransom came and went the new t P Tomorrow

1206
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:06,480
Speaker 1: leadership was uncertain of how to respond, they executed him.

1207
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 1: And I should know there are allegations, at least I

1208
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 1: don't know how. I haven't found a lot of the

1209
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 1: tail that there are allegations that the People's prison tortures

1210
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 1: folks as well. Um, I don't probably, I don't know. Again,

1211
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,439
Speaker 1: they're also allegations from in a lot of cases guys

1212
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 1: doing tortures, so like I don't, I don't know, but

1213
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 1: probably right there, probably doing some of that themselves. Um,

1214
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 1: which you know, Uh, nobody's a good guy when you

1215
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: when it comes time to be a war, Um, there's

1216
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 1: a better guy. And I think the people who are

1217
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: not being helped by the traveling torture electrocute your testicles, dude,

1218
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 1: are probably the better people in this situation. People kidnapped

1219
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,560
Speaker 1: the strangler are often better than the strangler. Yeah, I

1220
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: would say better than the strangler, even though as things

1221
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 1: get brutal, perhaps they do some strangling themselves, or at

1222
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: least like holding people in solitary confinement and ship. Um. Look,

1223
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure the people's prison isn't nice either, you know. No, Um,

1224
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 1: so they execute dan um, which again I don't. I

1225
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,439
Speaker 1: don't have a moral problem with that. If your job

1226
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: is to hook up electrodes to people's testicles, and like her,

1227
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 1: you're torturing like kill you, I don't have a moral

1228
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 1: issue with that. But it's not a great I don't

1229
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 1: think it's a good idea for them for a couple

1230
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 1: of reasons, Like it doesn't work well, I guess it didn't.

1231
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 1: It doesn't go well a lot of the sources you'll find,

1232
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 1: especially like the Guardian, kind of more liberal sources will

1233
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:33,480
Speaker 1: say that this is what leads to a loss of

1234
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 1: public support, and they they often are kind of sources

1235
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: that leave out the fact that Dan tortured people for

1236
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 1: the CIA. The ones that are like, this was like

1237
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: a bad move for them. I don't know how badly

1238
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 1: this hurts them locally. I don't know how much this

1239
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 1: is actually an unpopular move. UM. We get one hint

1240
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: in that in nineteen seventy two there's an Uruguay and

1241
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:54,920
Speaker 1: gallop poll Um and this is two years or so

1242
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 1: after they kill Dan Um and after two more years

1243
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: of because the violence s lights after they killed Dan.

1244
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 1: In this nineteen seventy two Pole finds that they're still

1245
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 1: widespread support for the guerrillas UM even though the majority

1246
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 1: of Uruguayans want non violent resolution to their political yields.

1247
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 1: So most most Uguayans do not support violent revolution, but

1248
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 1: they are also broadly feel fondly towards the Tupamarrow's right UM.

1249
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 1: In a lot of cases, because the government is increasingly militarizing,

1250
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 1: they're like carrying out these huge dragnets that impact people's lives,

1251
01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 1: so like the Tupamorrow's Rabba bank and that doesn't really

1252
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 1: funk with people living in the area. But then the

1253
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 1: police set up a huge dragnet and that fox up

1254
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 1: things for everybody, and so like they're angry at the

1255
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 1: cops more so than the tupamrrows. I don't know that

1256
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 1: killing Dan hurt the Tupamorrows with uruguayans, um, But it's

1257
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 1: not good for another reason, which is that now a

1258
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 1: CIA agent has been killed. Um. And so the United

1259
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 1: States is like, well, that's all the justification we needed

1260
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 1: to get way more involved in this ship. UM. So

1261
01:07:57,040 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: the US accelerates their support of the increasingly right wing

1262
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 1: Uraguayan government. The CIA funnels money and equipment in and

1263
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 1: they they funnel all of their money and equipment in

1264
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 1: manpower through one of their favorite vehicles. The US Agency

1265
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 1: for International Development or u S aid, like that is

1266
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 1: how all of their like here's how to torture people.

1267
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 1: Guys get like ledgered out as like this is part

1268
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:22,040
Speaker 1: of an aid package, you know. UM. I want to

1269
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 1: quote from a paper called Tracking the Tupamorrows by Lucas

1270
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 1: Hall of Union College. Quote, the United States began to

1271
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:30,600
Speaker 1: offer its assistance in the form of military aid to

1272
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 1: the Uruguayan government throughout the nineteen sixties and into the

1273
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies throughout the civic military dictatorship. Although the United

1274
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:40,480
Speaker 1: States initially provided military aid in order to squash the Tupamorrows,

1275
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 1: eventually it provided aid in order to suppress the left

1276
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 1: in general. For example, the Uruguayan government first declared a

1277
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:49,559
Speaker 1: state of siege government limitation on personal freedom in nineteen

1278
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 1: sixty three following a worker strike at an electric company

1279
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 1: in Montevideo, and thereafter in nineteen sixty five, sixty seven,

1280
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 1: sixty eight, and sixty nine in response to various protests

1281
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:03,680
Speaker 1: organized by labors or insurgent activities perpetrated by the Tupa Marrows.

1282
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:07,600
Speaker 1: Such governmental decrees intensified conflicts among laborers, guerilla movements like

1283
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 1: the Tupa Morrows, and the increasingly authoritarian government. Moreover, following

1284
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty six elections, Buruguay re abandoned the National

1285
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:19,679
Speaker 1: Council and reinstituted the presidential system, which reinforced executive power.

1286
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:22,720
Speaker 1: Following the death of the newly elected Colorado president and

1287
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 1: military general Oscar Diego Gastito, pose a A year later,

1288
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 1: Gastito's vice president, George Pacheco Areco, assumed the presidency and

1289
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:34,400
Speaker 1: used his executive power to pursue and defeat the Tupamrrows.

1290
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,679
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy one, he decreed that the armed forces

1291
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 1: would intervene in the battle against the military movement against

1292
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:45,520
Speaker 1: the guerrilla movements. So that's kind of like the political

1293
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:47,599
Speaker 1: and and this is one of the points. A lot

1294
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 1: of people will say that the Tupamrrows brought on the

1295
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:53,040
Speaker 1: dictatorship that is coming because of their resistance, and as

1296
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 1: kind of that passage points out, they were a part

1297
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:59,600
Speaker 1: of the process by which the state became increasingly dictatorial.

1298
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 1: But a lot of the state's dictatorial decrees are in

1299
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 1: response to just workers protests, um, that are not organized

1300
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 1: by the Tupamorrows, because other stuff is happening in the

1301
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:11,639
Speaker 1: left here. Um. And I think that like when when

1302
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 1: primarily Western sources but although not entirely there are some

1303
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 1: eric Wades will blame them for it too. But when

1304
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 1: I think primarily when like western sources say well we

1305
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: got there, we got the dictatorship because of the Tupamrrows,

1306
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 1: they're ignoring the fact that the dictatorship came in and

1307
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 1: was backed by the US as part of a broad

1308
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,759
Speaker 1: attempt to stop all left wing organizing in the country,

1309
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 1: including all of these like workers movements and the Tupamorrows

1310
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 1: because they were the guerilla movement. Are a really convenient

1311
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 1: group to blame because kind of liberals always like to

1312
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,680
Speaker 1: blame the people who are accepting violence, even though like,

1313
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: well they also instituted states of emergency because they were

1314
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 1: fucking protests, like but like, don't don't put this all

1315
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:56,040
Speaker 1: on the tupamrrows. Yeah, it's a very very classic means

1316
01:10:56,120 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 1: by which to try and get the left to eat itself. Yes, um,

1317
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,280
Speaker 1: and it doesn't really work in Uruguay, which is interesting.

1318
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:05,599
Speaker 1: But well, well we're getting to that. So a reco

1319
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 1: the president who like brings the military and to fight

1320
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:12,800
Speaker 1: the Tupamrrows doesn't isn't quite a dictator, although Quays make

1321
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 1: equipbal with that, Like, I don't think he doesn't. He's

1322
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 1: not quite as far as the next guy. Is what

1323
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 1: I'll say. How did the guy die in the I don't,

1324
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:22,559
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know. I think it was natural causes,

1325
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 1: though it was not. I don't think so. Um, yeah,

1326
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 1: so a reco is the tri angler. Um, he preps

1327
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:37,200
Speaker 1: the path for dictatorship, and he kind of ushers Uruguay

1328
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:40,200
Speaker 1: into the dictatorship that's coming. I've mentioned a few times

1329
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 1: that the Tupamaros escalated their violence in response to state violence,

1330
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 1: and the Hall credits this less with desperation than to

1331
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 1: again the fact that this is a very pragmatic group.

1332
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: So the two Borrows are like, let's try not killing people,

1333
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 1: and then when it escalates to a more violent, more

1334
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:57,719
Speaker 1: gunfight a thing, they're like, well, let's become a straight

1335
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 1: up insurgent group. You know. Um. They're very willing to

1336
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:03,240
Speaker 1: kind of like weave with things, and so they pivot

1337
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 1: because they don't have a hard and fast ideology. They're

1338
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:09,439
Speaker 1: kind of happy to be mostly non violent or happy

1339
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 1: to be mostly violent, depending on what the situation calls for.

1340
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:15,600
Speaker 1: And in the early seventies, when the military gets in

1341
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 1: there like well now it's time to kill with more people. Um,

1342
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 1: and not a lot of people. I think about three

1343
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 1: Pmrrows get killed and they they kill about fifty people. Um.

1344
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:28,920
Speaker 1: So as insurgent movements go again, these guys are not like,

1345
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 1: we're not bombing military convoys and stuff. You know. Um,

1346
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 1: that's what they wanted. They could have had a more

1347
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 1: close if they if they wanted to, Yes, um, but

1348
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:44,840
Speaker 1: this doesn't work in any case, violence escalates and the

1349
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:48,280
Speaker 1: government's much better at doing violence right that the mars. Yeah,

1350
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 1: like if you're going I think it is this situation

1351
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 1: where like, if you're gonna do that, um, they will

1352
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,479
Speaker 1: probably be better than you. Add it. It's it's very

1353
01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:01,280
Speaker 1: rarely that a guerrilla movement takes all the entire apparatus

1354
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:04,680
Speaker 1: of the state and uh and wins. It happens, and

1355
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: usually they have to do some very ugly ship in

1356
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 1: order to make that work, um, and have some other

1357
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 1: things break their way and have a lot of foreign

1358
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:14,640
Speaker 1: aid and all this stuff. Anyway, whatever, it does not

1359
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:18,599
Speaker 1: work here, President Pacheco grows increasingly dictatorial. Everybody knows ship

1360
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 1: is bad. And again there's a lot of left wing

1361
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 1: organizing outside of the Tupamorrows critical of the Tupa Morrows.

1362
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 1: There's the what what a lot of scholars I read

1363
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:29,680
Speaker 1: we'll call the legal left in Uruguay who has this

1364
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 1: kind of mixed relationship where they appreciate them, they may

1365
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 1: agree with overall goals but not the means. And kind

1366
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:40,320
Speaker 1: of as they Uruguay hits this point where like the

1367
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:43,680
Speaker 1: military has been brought in, we can all see that

1368
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 1: a dictatorship is coming. The whole left kind of unifies

1369
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 1: behind this idea of like, well, let's try one last

1370
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:52,200
Speaker 1: legal push to stop this. Let's see if there is

1371
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:57,559
Speaker 1: a way within the democratic system to to avoid this

1372
01:13:57,680 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 1: before it becomes a straight up dictator ship. Um. And

1373
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:03,320
Speaker 1: so all these folks on the legal left form an

1374
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 1: organization called the Frente Amplio, which means broad Front, and

1375
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 1: it's like it's a popular front coalition. Right. We've talked

1376
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:11,800
Speaker 1: about this in the Behind the Insurrections episodes, and like

1377
01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 1: happens in Spain, happens in France, happens in a bunch

1378
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 1: of places. So they build a popular front coalition of

1379
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:20,719
Speaker 1: left parties and groups aimed at resisting the authoritarian creep

1380
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:24,800
Speaker 1: under Pacheco reco Um. By nineteen seventy one, dozens of

1381
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 1: Tupas have been killed, hundreds tortured, and the guerilla organization

1382
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 1: agrees to sit down with the Frente Amplio, with the

1383
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 1: legal left and work together in this this effort to

1384
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:38,839
Speaker 1: try and legally stop a dictatorship. Um. The Tupamrrows announced

1385
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 1: a sort of ceasefire from the nineteen seventy one elections, like,

1386
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:45,760
Speaker 1: we're not going to do insurgent ship. We're gonna we're

1387
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 1: gonna try to do electoral ship again. They're good at

1388
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:52,280
Speaker 1: pivoting right Um. And they form a political wing, the

1389
01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:55,639
Speaker 1: March twenty six Movement or twenty six m which declares

1390
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 1: support for the Frente Amplio. So the two bars are like, hey,

1391
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,599
Speaker 1: we're not gonna do any attacks right now. We're let's

1392
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 1: we formed a political organization and we have joined this

1393
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 1: broad front coalition of left wing political parties. Um. This

1394
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:12,719
Speaker 1: was a really difficult thing to pull off, because again,

1395
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 1: Uruguay has a two party system at least as fucked

1396
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:18,120
Speaker 1: up as ours as currently. It is hard. Then they're

1397
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 1: trying to make a third party, right like, they're not

1398
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:23,200
Speaker 1: unified with kind of the vaguely liberal party. They are

1399
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:27,880
Speaker 1: trying to do their own thing. Um, and it's it's

1400
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:30,719
Speaker 1: it's a significant attempt, right like. It is not an

1401
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:34,320
Speaker 1: easy thing to pull off. Quote from Lucas Hall's article,

1402
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 1: The Tupamorrows beyond expressing their support for the party through

1403
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 1: the formation of them humbled themselves in order to further

1404
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:43,800
Speaker 1: strengthen the front as electoral position amid rumors of a

1405
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 1: military coup. For example, the Topamrrows participated with former members

1406
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:50,679
Speaker 1: of the armed forces and other members of the security

1407
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 1: apparatus in Plan Contra Goulpe, a movement intended to prevent

1408
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 1: the onset of authoritarian dictatorship. However, despite such efforts, the

1409
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 1: Fronte amply failed to gain the support needed to topple

1410
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 1: the traditional parties. However credible it's written program in general

1411
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 1: principles might have been for a large sector of the citizenry,

1412
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:12,880
Speaker 1: the support of the Tup Tomorrow party positioned the Fronte

1413
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:16,080
Speaker 1: Amplio as an extremist option. As a result, it was

1414
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:18,640
Speaker 1: especially difficult for the Fronte to win the support of

1415
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 1: voters on the countryside, even that of voters outside Montevideo. Nonetheless,

1416
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:25,960
Speaker 1: the results of the elections were surprising. First, although he

1417
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 1: received the most votes, the constitution prevented President Pacheco from

1418
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 1: serving a second term, and the electoral effort to amend

1419
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:36,160
Speaker 1: that law was disapproved. As a result, Pacheco's handpicked suppressor,

1420
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:41,000
Speaker 1: Juan Maria Bordaberry A Rosina won the presidency second, although

1421
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 1: it only won eighteen percent of the vote. The front

1422
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:45,920
Speaker 1: A Amplio won thirty percent of the vote in Montevideo.

1423
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 1: In other words, nearly a fifth of the total population

1424
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 1: and a third of the population of Montevideo was disaffected

1425
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,000
Speaker 1: with the current political system, although the other four fifths

1426
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:58,120
Speaker 1: of the population voted for the traditional parties. This figure

1427
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:00,960
Speaker 1: represents the first time in Uruguay's a total history that

1428
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:04,840
Speaker 1: a non traditional party garnered considerable support from a significant

1429
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,920
Speaker 1: portion of the population, suggesting that at least in the city,

1430
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:11,920
Speaker 1: the Tupamaros armed propaganda campaign has had had been successful

1431
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:14,720
Speaker 1: in influencing all sides of the left to challenge the

1432
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 1: established order. And this is interesting to me because again,

1433
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:21,439
Speaker 1: a lot of the non scholarly sources who are kind

1434
01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:24,680
Speaker 1: of like journalists summarizing the history will say that, like

1435
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:29,080
Speaker 1: they they lead to the failure of the left electorally

1436
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 1: and going anyway, Yeah, left wasn't gonna win anyway, But

1437
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 1: this some academics at least I'm not I'm not trying

1438
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:38,000
Speaker 1: to claim what's in this Lucas Hall article, although he

1439
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 1: does cite a number of Uruguayan academics. I'm not trying

1440
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:43,120
Speaker 1: to say that this is the absolute consensus, but there

1441
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:46,479
Speaker 1: is a substantial academic argument that actually the Tupamaros armed

1442
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: propaganda campaign is why, for the first time ever, the

1443
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:54,320
Speaker 1: Left as a third party gains a really significant chunk

1444
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:57,960
Speaker 1: of the vote. UM, that's an argument you can make

1445
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 1: that said time had run out. Uh, the nineteen seventy

1446
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 1: one election was sadly their last attempt to for their

1447
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:08,679
Speaker 1: last chance to forestall a dictatorship. UM. The Frente Amplio

1448
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 1: did succeed in destroying the two party system in Uruguay,

1449
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:16,360
Speaker 1: but the election of nineteen seventy one destroyed democracy. President

1450
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:20,000
Speaker 1: border Berry seized total power after taking office, although he

1451
01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 1: himself was more or less just a stand in for

1452
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,400
Speaker 1: the military. This is not really like a fascist thing

1453
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 1: where like he's taking power. He is the guy the

1454
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:31,960
Speaker 1: military has being the face of the military dictatorship. Right.

1455
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:33,800
Speaker 1: That's kind of how it works in Uruguay. It's less

1456
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:36,599
Speaker 1: like about the individual and more that like and not

1457
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:39,800
Speaker 1: that like. He's not part of the decision making apparatus,

1458
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:42,920
Speaker 1: but he's like one of a bunch of guys making

1459
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:46,640
Speaker 1: this military dictatorship. Be a thing. Um. From what I

1460
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:48,680
Speaker 1: can tell, the military's attitude is like, well, we let

1461
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 1: you civilians try to get things under control. It's time

1462
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 1: for like the military to function up for everybody because

1463
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:57,360
Speaker 1: that'll be um and spoilers. It's not it's a real

1464
01:18:57,439 --> 01:19:02,439
Speaker 1: bad dictatorship. Yeah. Um, a lot of kind of casual sources. Again,

1465
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:06,160
Speaker 1: like they will blame the tupamaros for the onset of dictatorship.

1466
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:07,800
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say they didn't have any Like

1467
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:10,840
Speaker 1: obviously they are a major part of Uruguayan politics. As

1468
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:13,000
Speaker 1: the country descends into a dictatorship, of course they had

1469
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:16,280
Speaker 1: a role in what happened, right, Um. I think saying

1470
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 1: that because of the tupamaros Uruguay gets a dictatorship number one,

1471
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:23,840
Speaker 1: it ignores that Uruguay falls a dictatorship alongside Chile, Argentina,

1472
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:27,439
Speaker 1: El Salvador, Guatemala, like a bunch of other countries, all

1473
01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 1: of whom the US is doing the same ship they're

1474
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:32,240
Speaker 1: doing it to Uruguay and and none of whom have

1475
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:35,439
Speaker 1: to pamaros themselves. Um. So I when you when you

1476
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 1: knock everyone off the fence, when you polarized society, you're

1477
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:41,320
Speaker 1: like lining up for a fight, and you're even gonna

1478
01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:45,440
Speaker 1: win or lose. It's not inherently like, it's not necessarily

1479
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 1: the fault of the people who knock everyone off the fence.

1480
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 1: You know. No, they are again part of this process.

1481
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:52,760
Speaker 1: It certainly would be unreasonable say they had nothing to

1482
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:55,719
Speaker 1: do with the dictatorship, right, Like they're a huge factor

1483
01:19:55,840 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 1: in Uruguayan politics. But also the dictatorship comes into power

1484
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:02,360
Speaker 1: in part because the government's trying to crack down on

1485
01:20:02,439 --> 01:20:06,080
Speaker 1: like unions and labor organizing and stuff out. That's not

1486
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 1: people pulling guns. Um, that's a big chunk of what happens.

1487
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:12,160
Speaker 1: And yeah, that is what we're going to end part

1488
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 1: one because thankfully, Margaret, unlike a lot of unfortunately a

1489
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:19,240
Speaker 1: lot of Latin American history we're not talking about, Like

1490
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:21,760
Speaker 1: and then they get crushed and right wing governments take

1491
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:24,760
Speaker 1: power for the next sixty years, and the US trains

1492
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:27,799
Speaker 1: their security forces over and over again, and now they're

1493
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,439
Speaker 1: burning down the like whatever. Like, this is not that story.

1494
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:33,200
Speaker 1: It does not have that ending. Um, But we'll get

1495
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:36,400
Speaker 1: to that into Christmas. Now, it is a Christmas miracle, Margaret,

1496
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:40,439
Speaker 1: That's what everybody says. Um, I'm gonna go get my

1497
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:47,240
Speaker 1: Irroguay tree tomorrow. Um, you got any plug holes to plug? Yes,

1498
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:50,120
Speaker 1: I do. I have a new book out. It was

1499
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:51,640
Speaker 1: actually a book that's been out for a while, but

1500
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 1: it's been re released with a new publisher. It's called

1501
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 1: A Country of Ghosts. And it's my attempt to answer

1502
01:20:56,479 --> 01:21:00,120
Speaker 1: the question of people always ask, well, they we know

1503
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:02,360
Speaker 1: what you anarchist are against, what are you for? And

1504
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:06,080
Speaker 1: so I tried to write a book. Um, that's fiction

1505
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:10,479
Speaker 1: because I don't read a lot of theory and yeah,

1506
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 1: and that's yeah. It just came out a couple of

1507
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:16,720
Speaker 1: weeks ago. I think, Um, that's my main plug able.

1508
01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:18,840
Speaker 1: I'm also on the internet as good as hell and

1509
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:23,200
Speaker 1: very relevant to the story we're telling here, although more

1510
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:29,600
Speaker 1: mountains uh les. Yeah, No, it's the it's the Switzerland comparison.

1511
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 1: It's it's it is kind of a Switzerland sort of deal.

1512
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, um, I reckon. I tore through it uh

1513
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:39,800
Speaker 1: in a in a long weekend day last weekend and

1514
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:44,360
Speaker 1: thoroughly enjoyed it. Um. And it's also I mean kudos

1515
01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:46,120
Speaker 1: to ak on this one of the books that has

1516
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:47,800
Speaker 1: like the little flaps on the inside of the cover

1517
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 1: so that you can manage without folding the pages over

1518
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 1: which I really appreciate. I was really excited. It's my

1519
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:57,840
Speaker 1: first yeah, I use book with French flaps, and it's

1520
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 1: my first book with a painted fantasy cover on the cover.

1521
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:04,120
Speaker 1: You have such a good cover. I'm so excited about it.

1522
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:05,720
Speaker 1: And then so now I need to write a book

1523
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:09,320
Speaker 1: with a dragon. You can write a sequel to this

1524
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:14,679
Speaker 1: book with a drag. But oh, that's actually okay. Anyway, um,

1525
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:18,240
Speaker 1: all right, well you can find me nowhere because I'm

1526
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 1: a great ghost baby. That's the end of the episode. Sophie. Okay,

1527
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 1: hello world, I'm Robert and I'm doing a live stream

1528
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:30,559
Speaker 1: with my good friend Prop if you want to listen

1529
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:32,800
Speaker 1: to that. Sophie won't let me curse. So this ad

1530
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:36,320
Speaker 1: isn't very entertaining, but it's going to be February at

1531
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:39,559
Speaker 1: six p MPST and you can find it at a

1532
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:43,679
Speaker 1: moment house dot com slash behind the Bastards allegedly. Yeah,

1533
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:46,680
Speaker 1: this is a you know, a good holiday gift or

1534
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:50,920
Speaker 1: allegedly or not a holiday gift or allegedly, but we'll

1535
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:52,880
Speaker 1: be doing that. We'll be doing it behind the Bastards

1536
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:56,800
Speaker 1: in and in a little Q and A be there

1537
01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:59,080
Speaker 1: if you want to Where? Where can people find that again?

1538
01:22:59,160 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 1: Robert Minhouse dot com slash behind the Bastards