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Speaker 1: This is the Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hello,

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Speaker 1: I'm Jason Kelly and I'm Mike Lynch. We're here Monday's,

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Speaker 1: Wednesdays and Thursdays with you to explore the big money

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Speaker 1: issues in the world of sports. Talk to some of

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Speaker 1: the biggest players in the industry today. We are very

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Speaker 1: fortunate to have one of our insiders speaking with us,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg columnist Jonathan Burnstein. He had a recent column that

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Speaker 1: caught both of our attention, Will Trump save the baseball season?

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Speaker 1: Politics and the American pastime colliding? John? Really, nice to

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Speaker 1: have you with us. Nice to be here, all right,

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Speaker 1: So set up this column for us, and then I

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Speaker 1: think we're all just gonna complain about the fact that

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Speaker 1: there is not going to be any baseball. But tell

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Speaker 1: us what you set out to do here. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it occurred to me that, you know, Donald Trump's polls

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Speaker 1: are terrible right now, He's sitting around, he's looking for

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Speaker 1: a win, and he or somebody in the White House,

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Speaker 1: it seemed to me, is gonna say, you know what,

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Speaker 1: we should solve the baseball problem because you know, it

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Speaker 1: looks like we're not gonna have a baseball season. Um,

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Speaker 1: and you know, loves the idea of sort of you know,

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Speaker 1: bringing people, that he's the guy who could bring people

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Speaker 1: together and get a big win. And you know, to

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Speaker 1: some extent it makes sense. But then I go into

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Speaker 1: all the reasons why actually this is a terrible idea.

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Speaker 1: If if Trump does try, it is a really good

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Speaker 1: chance that would backfire on him. There's no question about that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he looked what he wanted to do to

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Speaker 1: all the football players that were kneeling during the national anthem.

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Speaker 1: He wanted them all fired, he wanted them all cut.

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Speaker 1: So is he going to take any of the Major

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Speaker 1: League Baseball player dissidents and just just decree that they

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Speaker 1: can't play their band or they're fired, as he likes

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Speaker 1: to say. I mean, he has this sort of self

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Speaker 1: image as a great you know, as somebody who can

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Speaker 1: come into the room in the last minute without any

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Speaker 1: preparation and cut deals. And that actually isn't his skill set.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, there's for better, for worse reasons

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Speaker 1: why the baseball owners have their position. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the players are acting in their self interest. Owners are

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Speaker 1: acting and what they see as their self interest, and

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Speaker 1: you know it's it's not the kind of thing where oh,

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Speaker 1: just you know, everybody wants to make a deal, we

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Speaker 1: just have to do it. The owners don't appear to

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Speaker 1: want to make a deal, and so you know, that's

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Speaker 1: where we are. That's not that's not something a president

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Speaker 1: can do very much about. Yeah, and John, it is

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Speaker 1: a reminder too of you know, this is America's pastime

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Speaker 1: and in many ways, I mean that's sort of underneath.

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Speaker 1: It feels like your entire premise here is that baseball

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Speaker 1: is important to America? Is it still important to America?

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Speaker 1: And your estimation? Sure, I mean, you know, um, it's

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Speaker 1: not the number one sport hasn't been for a long

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Speaker 1: long time. Um, there are tons and tons of baseball fans,

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Speaker 1: tons and tons of football fans, tons and tons of

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Speaker 1: basketball fans. Uh, you know, quite a few soccer fans, hockey, etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: But sure, you know there's still a lot of us

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Speaker 1: who go through the the you know, from April till

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Speaker 1: the last day the World Series with baseball on the background.

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Speaker 1: Or you know, we we attend tons of baseball games,

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Speaker 1: we buy tons of baseball member rebelia, Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a big deal. I was thinking about this,

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Speaker 1: uh last night because I finally caught up with the

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Speaker 1: thirty on the McGuire Sosa home run chase. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it does remind you. It reminded me at least. Baseball

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Speaker 1: is fun to watch. The fun part about it is

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Speaker 1: that it happens every single day. I mean football, you

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Speaker 1: watch the game on Sunday and then you you know,

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Speaker 1: whine and complain about it or or to dump your

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Speaker 1: chest about it until about Wednesday. Then you start talking about, Okay,

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Speaker 1: who's coming up on the schedule this week. Baseball, you know,

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Speaker 1: you turn the page every single day and you know

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Speaker 1: a bat outing by a picture, or a bullpit guy

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Speaker 1: coming out of the bullpene who gets lit up. It's

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Speaker 1: forgotten the next day when the team comes out and

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Speaker 1: the starter goes a complete game and wins three to nothing.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the great parts about baseball. I

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Speaker 1: I still don't know if it's still America's game. I

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Speaker 1: think football might be America's game now, but it still

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Speaker 1: has that Monica attached to it. Yeah, but I always

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Speaker 1: say about that about the what's Americans game? I'm a

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Speaker 1: fan of a dying sport, and it listened to being

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Speaker 1: a huge baseball f Alium also a horse racing fan.

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Speaker 1: That's what a dying sport looks like. Baseball was fine.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't really matter to anybody with what I mean

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Speaker 1: on the margins. Sure the ratings matter to the people

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Speaker 1: who make money off of it. But baseball is not

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Speaker 1: many kind of danger. You know. It's it's doing fine.

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Speaker 1: It's it doesn't have to be the number one sport

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Speaker 1: to be a very healthy enterprise. But that raises a question,

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Speaker 1: John and Lynchy. This is for you to like, is

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Speaker 1: is the potential for no season going to mean the

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Speaker 1: short term or mid term death of baseball? What do

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Speaker 1: you think, John, death? No, Um, you know there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be some people who are upset, and they as people

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Speaker 1: who you know, form habits and a few One of

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Speaker 1: the things about baseball is it really is that day

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Speaker 1: to day habit that you have, and that's the music

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Speaker 1: of the summer for a lot of people. If you

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Speaker 1: take it away for one one year, some of those

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Speaker 1: people are gonna find soccer or they're gonna find I

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Speaker 1: don't know, whatever else they do. Um and and sure

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Speaker 1: that that is a hit. I don't think that baseball

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Speaker 1: is in any danger of dying. Over it. But you know,

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Speaker 1: in terms of the people who are within the game

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Speaker 1: who are talking about money, Yeah, you know there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be people who cancel their season tickets. That's that's a hit,

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Speaker 1: you know. I I look at it this way. If

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Speaker 1: baseball doesn't come back this year, Uh, there's so many

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Speaker 1: other sports to choose from. The NBA will be going on,

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Speaker 1: golf will be going on, NFL preseason, maybe the NHL.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of looking for that that favorite pair of

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Speaker 1: shoes in your closet, you know it's there, said, well,

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Speaker 1: I can't find it this year, but here's three or

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Speaker 1: four other pair of shoes that I can wear. Come

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Speaker 1: next April, I'm gonna have those shoes out and polish

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Speaker 1: and shine, and I'm going to forget about that I

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Speaker 1: couldn't find it in the closet come July. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: think that's true for most people. So, John, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about kind of how we got here this particular season

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Speaker 1: and your read on this standoff that we're seeing between

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Speaker 1: the owners and the players, and and Lynch and I

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Speaker 1: have talked about this a lot on this show, This

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Speaker 1: idea that it feels like just about everybody else was

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Speaker 1: able to figure it out in some form or fashion.

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Speaker 1: Now there's a little bit of dissent going on with

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Speaker 1: a group of NBA players that that we've heard about.

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Speaker 1: Feels like they're going to get past that. But this

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Speaker 1: sort of intractable place where baseball finds itself, How did

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Speaker 1: that happen? From your perspective? From my perspective, you've got

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Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty years of baseball management, you know,

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Speaker 1: not sort of respecting that they are going to have

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Speaker 1: to pay the players. And um, you know they gone

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Speaker 1: into this. They they've had twenty years or show that

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Speaker 1: they've actually avoided that. But they sound just you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's amazing. It's a different set of owners. They

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Speaker 1: sound exactly like they did in Nino and all the

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Speaker 1: other times that we have work stoppages. Um, you know

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Speaker 1: they have a problem, Who solves it for them? Well,

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Speaker 1: make the players give them back money. That that's sort

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Speaker 1: of how they've always baseball owners have always behaved, And

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Speaker 1: that's that's what I see happening here. You know, the

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Speaker 1: players were perfectly willing to go to a per capita

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Speaker 1: you know, get paid, Um, lose lose fifty games, lose

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Speaker 1: that share of the money. Um, but you know, the

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Speaker 1: owners said, well, and while we're at it, give us

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Speaker 1: back more money. And you know that's just there's no

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Speaker 1: reason for the players to go for that. I know

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Speaker 1: Rob man Ford does to speak for himself. He speaks

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Speaker 1: for the thirty owners that he represents. But how important

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Speaker 1: is this whole negotiation and what happens it doesn't happen

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Speaker 1: to his I know he's very short into his tenure

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Speaker 1: as commissioner. How does it affect his legacy as commissioner

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Speaker 1: in Major League Baseball? That's a good question. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think what you said is correct, that that he

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Speaker 1: speaks for the owners, and I don't think he'd be

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Speaker 1: doing this if that wasn't pretty close to a consensus.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm looking for is are

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Speaker 1: we seeing any dissent from any of the teams? And

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Speaker 1: so far I don't see that. Um. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: his job is to represent the owners. That's what he's

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Speaker 1: gonna do. And then he'll line up in the Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame, because no matter how bad the commissioners are,

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Speaker 1: they all line up in the Hall of Fame. But

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Speaker 1: it does you know, let you going back to even

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Speaker 1: the set up to your question or your question itself.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is it the is it ultimately the job

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Speaker 1: of the baseball commissioner to You're right? I mean he

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Speaker 1: he effectively represents the owners, But should that be his job?

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Speaker 1: I mean, Lynchi, what do you think? I think he

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Speaker 1: should be the leader? He obviously is the face of

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Speaker 1: of management and ownership, and I think the way that

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Speaker 1: he handles the players and handles the situation, I think

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Speaker 1: certainly affects how what the players think of him. I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at you know, probably the best player commissioner relationship

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Speaker 1: of the four major sports right now is the NBA.

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Speaker 1: I think the players have a great deal of respect

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Speaker 1: for for Adam Silver. Um, I'm not so sure about

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Speaker 1: Roger Goodell and Gary Bettman. I think the players hockeys.

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Speaker 1: Hockey is a different breed. They like everybody, don't dislike anybody.

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Speaker 1: So anybody could be in his commissioner and they would

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Speaker 1: like them. But you know, Manford is isn't isn't even

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Speaker 1: close to the relationship that Silver has with the NBA,

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Speaker 1: you know, and that's been true forever, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's not like I guess in his later years, Buds

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Speaker 1: League was able to do something but that was mostly

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Speaker 1: because the union, the Baseball Union acted unusually weak um

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Speaker 1: for a while, and now they're sort of standing up

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Speaker 1: for themselves for the first time in a while. And

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Speaker 1: you know, boom, we're right back at it. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: you know this is all happening with baseball coming up

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Speaker 1: on the collective bargaining Agreement ending soon, and so that's

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Speaker 1: really the context for all of this. Alright. So, John,

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Speaker 1: we neglected to ask you an important question. Who's your team?

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Speaker 1: I'm a Giant San San Francisco Giants. Oh yeah, interesting,

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Speaker 1: is that where you grew up or what? What's the

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Speaker 1: from Phoenix, Arizona? Um, my dad was My dad is

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Speaker 1: from New York originally and was a Giant stand growing up.

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Speaker 1: Um so I got it from him. Then, in addition

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Speaker 1: to that, the Giant said spring training and scenics back.

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Speaker 1: Spring training was wonderful because people didn't when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid. It was not well attended, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you could walk up and get seats. Um. And also

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Speaker 1: the Triple A team was there. Phoenix was the Giants

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Speaker 1: Triple A team for a long time before they got

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Speaker 1: their own team. Um So, I'm a diehard Giants fanner

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Speaker 1: for many years. Yeah, from way back. So does Buster

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Speaker 1: Posey belong in the Hall of Fames alongside John You know, boy,

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Speaker 1: you want me to talk Abuster Posty, I can talk

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Speaker 1: Abuster Posey. After the season, Pablo Santabal remember catches the

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Speaker 1: foul pop up from from I forget to get it

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Speaker 1: in the world in foul Territory. Pablo becomes a free agent,

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Speaker 1: goes to Boston. Of course that didn't work out very

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Speaker 1: well at that point, Buster post he could have moved

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Speaker 1: a third base, could have moved first base. The third

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Speaker 1: base was open. He came up in in high school

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Speaker 1: as an infielder. Boy, if they had moved him, then

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Speaker 1: maybe he you know, his bat stays alive. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: still the greatest catching the Giants franchise, Yeah, what it's

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Speaker 1: such an It is an interesting franchise and it's a man,

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Speaker 1: what a beautiful ballpark they currently are not currently but

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Speaker 1: they play in when there's when there's baseball. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: your prediction for what what happens here, John Burns seemed like,

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Speaker 1: do we get baseball? You know, I sort of think

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Speaker 1: that if the health parts work, which is still very

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Speaker 1: much up in the air, right, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: the virus hasn't gone away, and we're all pretending that

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Speaker 1: sports can proceed and we'll see. Um, but I sort

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Speaker 1: of think that the owner's cave at the last minute.

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Speaker 1: I there's there's they're they're leaving money on the table

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Speaker 1: if they don't. Yeah, but it wouldn't shock me if

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Speaker 1: we if we don't. But if I had to guess,

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Speaker 1: I'd say, yeah, we wind up having a season. What

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Speaker 1: do you think, Well, doesn't Rob Man for and I

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Speaker 1: be reading this wrong, doesn't he have a right to

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Speaker 1: just bang the gabble and say fifty games season? Uh?

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Speaker 1: You know that's yes, yes, all right, so do you

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Speaker 1: see that happening? Well, if he does, my understanding is

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Speaker 1: that if he does that, then they don't get any

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Speaker 1: of the other things they're asking for, which is more

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Speaker 1: playoffs than a few other things. So um, and they

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Speaker 1: would still have to work out you know, rosters and

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Speaker 1: travel and a whole bunch of other things, and some

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Speaker 1: of that the the union gets a say. And even

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Speaker 1: if he decrees a fifty game season, so well, and

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Speaker 1: the and the question of them and the details may

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Speaker 1: turn out to be really important. Yeah, yeah, well, and

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Speaker 1: and certainly, uh, we're learning from the NBA, which you

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Speaker 1: know again is planning to come back. But as the

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Speaker 1: details come out, we really are reminded that the devils

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Speaker 1: of the details, and and you know, we're gonna learn

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Speaker 1: a lot about, as you very rightly point out, John,

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Speaker 1: the health aspects of this and whether you can actually

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Speaker 1: pull this off. You know, golf is one thing, and

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Speaker 1: obviously that was a big success this past weekend, but

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Speaker 1: um assembling a bunch of teams to play. I have

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Speaker 1: to say, I, for my part, I am less optimistic.

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Speaker 1: I think there's not gonna be a season. I think

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Speaker 1: I think they're just gonna I think they're gonna blow

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Speaker 1: it and and there, and we're gonna come back next

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Speaker 1: season and maybe it'll be okay, it's gonna be an

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Speaker 1: ugly negotiation of the new cb A. But I'm growing less, uh,

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Speaker 1: maybe more pessimistic and less optimistic as as time goes on.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about you, Mike, Well, these things usually

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Speaker 1: uh are resolved eventually. Ninety four unfortunately cost us the

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Speaker 1: World Series, So maybe the same thing will happen now.

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Speaker 1: And I'm I'm sure we've all read the same thing

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Speaker 1: that there are at least a half a dozen maybe

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Speaker 1: more owners who really don't mind packing it in this year.

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Speaker 1: That's that's the thing that seeing that headline was actually

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Speaker 1: what made me think, Okay, there may not there may

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Speaker 1: not be a season. I don't know how all uh

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Speaker 1: you know, powerful and constituency that ultimately is, but um,

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Speaker 1: you know, but who knows? And maybe uh, as John

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Speaker 1: Burnstein says in his column, it's a great one. Read

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Speaker 1: it on the Bloomberg and Bloomberg dot com. Maybe President

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Speaker 1: Trump steps in here at some point. Stranger things have happened,

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Speaker 1: Stranger things have happened in the last month, so we

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Speaker 1: don't know what to expect anytime. Jonathan Bursey, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. Great to talk baseball with you. And uh,

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Speaker 1: here's hoping that maybe we get to talk about actual

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Speaker 1: games down the line. Thank you, all right, thank you all.

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Speaker 1: Thanks John. Well. Later this week we'll speak with d

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Speaker 1: C United owner and co chairman Jason Levian. Catch our

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Speaker 1: podcast right here every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday. I'm Jason Kelly.

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Speaker 1: Find me on Twitter at Jason Kelly News and I'm

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Speaker 1: Mike Lynch. You can follow me on Twitter at Lynch

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Speaker 1: e w c VB. And you're listening to Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: of Sports, from Bloomberg Radio around the world,