Speaker 1: Also, by the way, for a very long stretch of time,
Speaker 1: I was convinced that we were calling you button McGee.
Speaker 2: Are you serious?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then I remember one day being like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's button, button McGee.
Speaker 3: I knew it was about the button, but then I
Speaker 3: thought everyone was being.
Speaker 4: But McGee.
Speaker 3: More Better, More Better. Welcome to More Better, a podcast about,
Speaker 3: you know, getting better at stuff, and we stop pretending
Speaker 3: that we have it all together.
Speaker 1: And sometimes we embrace the journey of becoming a little
Speaker 1: more better every day.
Speaker 3: Maybe today is the day. Maybe that's Melissapa.
Speaker 2: Marrow and that's Stephanie Biatrin.
Speaker 3: And we are very excited because we have a special
Speaker 3: guest today on the pod is Joe Licriulio, who you
Speaker 3: may know and love from Brooklyn nine nine, which he
Speaker 3: started on for many seasons with us, and we're so
Speaker 3: excited to talk to him today.
Speaker 1: And we're talking to him about working with friends, which
Speaker 1: is a topic we really wanted to talk to him
Speaker 1: about specifically because he has basically made a career of
Speaker 1: working with his friends. So here's the episode Enjoy.
Speaker 2: More Better. Yeah, we have Joe, Joe's.
Speaker 4: Josire right into it.
Speaker 1: I love it, right into it, actor, writer, director, comedian,
Speaker 1: all around great guy, incredible Joe.
Speaker 4: I want to add incredible that all right, it is
Speaker 4: incredible to be here because I've missed you, guys, and
Speaker 4: I'm so happy to be on your on your show.
Speaker 4: It's been going well. I caught a couple of the
Speaker 4: episodes and they're great.
Speaker 3: Oh that's nice.
Speaker 2: Oh thanks friend, happy to have you here.
Speaker 1: Don't lie, don't lie, you tell after this, you tell
Speaker 1: us to give us all your notes.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, great, great.
Speaker 3: We wanted to start to Joe today about working with
Speaker 3: friends because Joe's worked with many people that have been
Speaker 3: close to him. He has lots of relationships that are
Speaker 3: you know, some of them were established like when you
Speaker 3: were really young, right, Like some of your comedic relationships
Speaker 3: and collaborations were established like really early on in your career.
Speaker 3: And it seems like something that you do well and often.
Speaker 3: So we wanted to talk to you about it because
Speaker 3: not only have you worked with good friends, but also
Speaker 3: like your partner and like, yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I've been really I've been really fortunate.
Speaker 4: And I think with the State, which was the sketch
Speaker 4: group I was in a million years ago, we all
Speaker 4: met and Yu, And you know, it's you always have
Speaker 4: safety in numbers, right, You always kind of want to,
Speaker 4: you know, have your buds with you to kind of
Speaker 4: forge your head to these dreams of being in the business.
Speaker 4: And and you know that's it's really exciting. You just
Speaker 4: feel like you have that same type of hunger and
Speaker 4: ambition and you learn a shorthand. And it went very
Speaker 4: well with those guys. And I've found that in working
Speaker 4: with certainly Brooklyn and working with you know, Jod Appatowan
Speaker 4: all and his crew and just overall working with people
Speaker 4: that trust you to do your thing is just there's
Speaker 4: nothing like it. Just the best.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you feel like when you first met
Speaker 3: how how did you first meet some of the guys
Speaker 3: women as well? Yeah, take us back to.
Speaker 2: The origin story, Yu, Like, how did it happen?
Speaker 4: We The first person I met in the state was
Speaker 4: Michael Schowalter, who was right across the hall from me
Speaker 4: in Weinstein Dorm. And so yeah, and we and we
Speaker 4: hit it off and he I had no interest in
Speaker 4: in really sketch comedy or anything. I was way too serious.
Speaker 4: I was just way I was that guy. I was
Speaker 4: on the verge of annoying and just like I'm just
Speaker 4: going to be a serious filmmaker. I was in the
Speaker 4: film department there and and I liked comedy, but I
Speaker 4: just didn't want to kind of pursue that.
Speaker 2: And the are you talking about?
Speaker 4: Are you serious?
Speaker 2: Blows my mind. I can't believe I didn't know this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't want to do Thank god I did.
Speaker 4: Like I would have been insuperable, Like.
Speaker 3: I still kind of picturing you with like a skinny
Speaker 3: scarf fla I had.
Speaker 4: I had, I had a Oh my lord, I had
Speaker 4: a dangling like George Michael crucifix gearing.
Speaker 2: I knew it, like I took.
Speaker 4: We're like, I'm in you know, one of the one
Speaker 4: of the one of the things I do is like
Speaker 4: you know, takee sell portraits and everything. Guys it I
Speaker 4: I want to burn all those pictures. I'm keeping it.
Speaker 4: I have them in case I see the mole of himself.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna listen, be careful, be careful. All right, Look
Speaker 4: what happened to dad? Dad? Dad just thought he was
Speaker 4: in some type of music video and it was very serious.
Speaker 4: So yeah, so I that was me. And then Showalter
Speaker 4: was like, Hey, we're gonna let's audition for this comedy
Speaker 4: troupe at n YU called Sterol Yak who had a
Speaker 4: bunch of great talented people. Williams was in that group,
Speaker 4: who's now a f children's author, and and another fellow
Speaker 4: by the name of Todd Holibeck was also in that
Speaker 4: group and was like, I'm gonna kind of break off
Speaker 4: and start this other sketch group. And so anyway, so
Speaker 4: show Walter was like, we're gonna go just come do
Speaker 4: this audition. And I only went because I wanted to
Speaker 4: have a friend, Like he was like wow. I was like,
Speaker 4: I got to meet some people and and then did it.
Speaker 4: And then that's that's how I got into that. And
Speaker 4: I was like a funny kid in school, like I
Speaker 4: wasn't you know, I did a lot of like sketches
Speaker 4: and you know, drama class, and I was always making
Speaker 4: jokes and making these kind of funny little movies. But once,
Speaker 4: for some reason, I thought, once I got to college,
Speaker 4: I'm kind of really now I got to really kind
Speaker 4: of dig my heels, really a serious serious artists. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: so so yeah, and so then it just went from there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you when you met Showalter, was it like
Speaker 3: a kind of an immediate like, oh, this is one
Speaker 3: of this I like this person.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, it was around We started talking just about
Speaker 4: like music. I didn't like beer at the time, and
Speaker 4: I was He kind of introduced me to having beer
Speaker 4: because we went to some bar and I ordered like
Speaker 4: a melon ball or something really dumb, and he, oh,
Speaker 4: he side eyed me and he's like, what are you doing.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I just don't like beer. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 4: like the taste of it.
Speaker 3: And he's like, like, while your little earring dangles, and.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it looks good. The green drink looks good with
Speaker 4: my beret and silver earring. So he's like, that's not
Speaker 4: gonna work. And then my gift to him was he
Speaker 4: had never heard of You Two, and You Two was
Speaker 4: my favorite band at the time, and I don't know,
Speaker 4: and aside from those things, we just kind of really
Speaker 4: hit it off and in the same sense of humor,
Speaker 4: and so it was a quick you know it was.
Speaker 4: I took to him quickly, and but then everyone and
Speaker 4: then as soon as the group started, like these people
Speaker 4: fast became my best friends because we so wanted, we
Speaker 4: were so ambitious, we we we liked, we loved each
Speaker 4: other and being around each other. But we didn't, if
Speaker 4: that makes any sense, Like we did not treat each
Speaker 4: other well, But who does twenty.
Speaker 2: One years old and you'rer and you.
Speaker 4: Want to just you're proving, especially in a group setting. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's why I like the reunion tour that we did
Speaker 4: last year was such a great gift. It was because
Speaker 4: you just really realist and cherished these people that I
Speaker 4: had known for so long and could appreciate them as
Speaker 4: them and the achievements that they did, and I had
Speaker 4: done my own thing. It was great to kind of
Speaker 4: come back with that. But when you're that young man,
Speaker 4: it's just like cutthroat, and and yet we would all
Speaker 4: go to Ken Marino's parents' cabin in Hot Bottom, Pennsylvania
Speaker 4: and write and have a great time. And so we
Speaker 4: would do all these kind of adventures to create that bond.
Speaker 4: So we were fortified with that trust when we faced
Speaker 4: the biz and face the studio and face the producers, right,
Speaker 4: and so we needed swagger, you know, we needed swagger
Speaker 4: to kind of get through that those years.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1: I that you you did, like you used adventure trips
Speaker 1: or like events I guess to kind of like rebond
Speaker 1: you to like then get into like the creative stuff.
Speaker 1: And then was it difficult once you were maybe doing
Speaker 1: the thing, or like after the thing was over, Is
Speaker 1: that when things would kind of get tricky.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the the the trickiest part while we
Speaker 4: were doing it were always the pitch meetings that would
Speaker 4: be in any sketch show. I mean, you can you
Speaker 4: know Andy could tell you about that with SNL, Like,
Speaker 4: pitching is always kind of so stressful, and so when
Speaker 4: we were in it, that was really hard part because
Speaker 4: if you didn't write a script and didn't pitch one,
Speaker 4: you probably weren't going to be in the sketches. And
Speaker 4: I had a kind of a unique position because I
Speaker 4: was quote unquote a nice guy and a good guy.
Speaker 4: Everyone kind of liked me, and so I and I
Speaker 4: and my strength was performing at the time, so I
Speaker 4: was able to get in maybe more sketches than others.
Speaker 4: And then the hard part after when the state broke
Speaker 4: up was of course watching everyone's uh, you know success.
Speaker 4: You know, we're no longer a group. You're kind of
Speaker 4: on your own. Who's going to do what first? What
Speaker 4: team what factions are going to team up? And you
Speaker 4: know that was difficult for me at first. Because I
Speaker 4: was kind of like solo. But I I love that
Speaker 4: I went through that kind of you know, that kind
Speaker 4: of trial by fire because I was able to kind
Speaker 4: of define who I was, who Joe.
Speaker 2: Was, and outside of the group, yeah, outside.
Speaker 4: The group, Like I had a mini nervous breakdown when
Speaker 4: the group broke up, because you're so used to that.
Speaker 3: Really.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember I went into this bar with a
Speaker 4: few of the guys and then I just my test
Speaker 4: my chest got tight, and then I started.
Speaker 2: A your testicles, my test really tight.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, wait a minute, why am I sitting
Speaker 4: in a bucket of ice water? And then that made sense, no,
Speaker 4: and I just started I had to leave the bar,
Speaker 4: and I just started like sitting on the heart, like balling,
Speaker 4: and I didn't know why. And eventually, I think what
Speaker 4: I discovered was like the reality of like the group
Speaker 4: was like over. It was catching up with my conscious.
Speaker 4: The subconscious is catching up there, right, And so those
Speaker 4: years after that was pretty were pretty tough, but ultimately
Speaker 4: awesome because I just gained a little bit more experience
Speaker 4: and more confidence in what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you needed to go through that in perspective, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Perspective for sure. Yeah, fuck yeah, we all go through
Speaker 4: these moments of kind of anxiety and grew.
Speaker 3: Oh my god that the end of Brooklyn. I was like,
Speaker 3: and I'm never going to work again. I guess like
Speaker 3: that that's it and I will never ever do anything.
Speaker 3: I might as well move to I don't even know,
Speaker 3: some like small town in Alaska and learn how to fish. Yeah,
Speaker 3: because it does become I mean, it's it's very different.
Speaker 3: I think probably you're right, Andy has a more similar
Speaker 3: experience in SNL in that like you're all together all
Speaker 3: the time and you're working on this thing that's like cohesive.
Speaker 3: It's like a cohesive, but it's alive because of all
Speaker 3: of you. Yeah, you know what I mean, as opposed
Speaker 3: to like something that you get cast in and you
Speaker 3: like become part of an ensemble or something like that. Right, right,
Speaker 3: it's life. It lives and dies with how you guys
Speaker 3: function as a as a team.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's nothing like that vibe when when you're doing
Speaker 4: a scene and you just everyone's locked in, you know,
Speaker 4: and you know, we obviously had that on you know,
Speaker 4: many many streets in Brooklyn, but there it's something about
Speaker 4: like knowing someone's history and personal life outside the make
Speaker 4: believe kind of adds to the make believe in such
Speaker 4: a pure way. It's such a flow, like it makes
Speaker 4: it feel so personal. I love it and and you know,
Speaker 4: I've been fortunate enough to experience that a couple of times.
Speaker 3: Did you ever have experiences in working with the group
Speaker 3: on sketches where you were like, this is a weird
Speaker 3: thing to say, but.
Speaker 4: It's not funny.
Speaker 3: Well, more likely, when you're working and you do something,
Speaker 3: you do something. I mean speaking of like knowing people
Speaker 3: really well and knowing their knowing what's going on with
Speaker 3: them personally. Sometimes you can like set people up to
Speaker 3: really fly, and sometimes you can fucking set people up
Speaker 3: to just fucking.
Speaker 2: Crash, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Like, did that ever happen or was it always a
Speaker 3: generous environment?
Speaker 4: I think on in front of the cameras and on
Speaker 4: stage it was always a generous environment, it really like
Speaker 4: from like, I don't remember any real sabotage. There may
Speaker 4: have been some like I don't remember or any any
Speaker 4: real sabotage in the state while we were actually performing.
Speaker 4: Because the whole purpose of it's kind of like when
Speaker 4: you have a sibling and you're picking on him or
Speaker 4: he's picking on you, and then you both go out
Speaker 4: to the playground and someone tries to pick on your sibling,
Speaker 4: like hey man, back off. That's yeah, yeah, right. It's
Speaker 4: kind of like that when in in you know, in
Speaker 4: the offices, we may go at it, but then when
Speaker 4: we're on stage or in a creative meeting with you know,
Speaker 4: the studio heads or producers, we were like we stick
Speaker 4: up for each other there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that's the difference between like, you know, I
Speaker 3: think a lot of people work with friends, right yeah,
Speaker 3: but I think the difference between working with people who
Speaker 3: I guess you conform friendships at work when you're thrown
Speaker 3: together and stuff. But I think that the real difference
Speaker 3: is like, am I going to do exactly what you
Speaker 3: said just now? Would I stand up for them on
Speaker 3: the playground if somebody else came out, or would I
Speaker 3: feel like this is your problem? My god? That just
Speaker 3: you know, I'm gonna wash my hands of this. And
Speaker 3: that's how you really know whether or not you're invested
Speaker 3: in this relationship beyond just a working relationship. I invested
Speaker 3: in this relationship as like I want to see this
Speaker 3: person succeed in life, in a way, But that can
Speaker 3: be a really hard balance, right because, like like you said,
Speaker 3: when the working relationship is over, I wanted to ask you,
Speaker 3: like what it was like working with Beth on outcomes
Speaker 3: like and what that experience was like for the two
Speaker 3: of you, and as somebody who wrote and directed it
Speaker 3: and then casting your significant other in the lead role
Speaker 3: and having that experience like.
Speaker 4: I we both when it was happening on the shoot itself.
Speaker 4: Part of the reason I think it worked so well
Speaker 4: is that we had separate hotel rooms.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so really that.
Speaker 4: Needed to be necessary. You know, as an actor, she's
Speaker 4: working all days, she wants to decompress and she wants
Speaker 4: to kind of get away from everything and go through
Speaker 4: her process of getting ready for the next day and
Speaker 4: decompressing from that one where I, you know, need to
Speaker 4: look at the shot list and think about what went right,
Speaker 4: what went wrong, can I do better? Et cetera. And
Speaker 4: so that was really I think the key honestly to
Speaker 4: success on a practical level. The project was a lot
Speaker 4: harder for Beth before we started shooting because the project,
Speaker 4: you know, finding fund, being in prep for like three years.
Speaker 4: I took a toll on the household, and that was
Speaker 4: very very hard on the marriage. That was hard on
Speaker 4: Beth in particular. And I just love her so much
Speaker 4: and owe her so much and respect her so much
Speaker 4: for kind of seeing that through and allowing me to
Speaker 4: do that, to see this dream through. But it was
Speaker 4: very tough. It was hard for her to do that.
Speaker 4: It takes them so much time independent filmmaking, and especially
Speaker 4: when you're funding it yourself and shooting on a mountain,
Speaker 4: all these things. But she knew how important that this
Speaker 4: was to me, Like I wouldn't have been able to, like,
Speaker 4: at the end of my life, been able to look
Speaker 4: in the mirror had I not made a movie, a
Speaker 4: horror movie, and so and she knew that, and I'm
Speaker 4: so grateful. And so when we were on set then
Speaker 4: it really began to shine. Like we work really well
Speaker 4: together as actors, We worked really well together as an
Speaker 4: actor director. We have we have trouble when we're both
Speaker 4: writing the same thing. We have very different yeah visions
Speaker 4: and way to express our writings. Were very strong minded
Speaker 4: people in terms of a vision of writing, and so
Speaker 4: that that's trouble. Maybe someday that'll change, but at least
Speaker 4: the acting part and the acting directing part. We we
Speaker 4: do very well at and I do it again a
Speaker 4: heartbeat for sure?
Speaker 3: Did you feel like on I mean I had a
Speaker 3: very different experience I think on Brooklyn, But like, did
Speaker 3: you feel like on Brooklyn that you were able to
Speaker 3: say and speak and say and like I want to
Speaker 3: try this, I want to do this, so I think
Speaker 3: I think this is funnier I wanted, you know, And
Speaker 3: did it change over time?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean I thought I did did you did
Speaker 4: you not? I did?
Speaker 3: I feel like I didn't know to ask until the end,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Like meaning like I just
Speaker 3: had a different experience than most of you. I think
Speaker 3: because I just hadn't done enough television. I had done
Speaker 3: theater for so long, so like to me, you know,
Speaker 3: the first three seasons was just like I don't know
Speaker 3: where I'm standing, you know, like and please remember to
Speaker 3: deliver the line when I'm supposed to. I think much
Speaker 3: more than like creatively, what do I think about this joke?
Speaker 3: You know, which came for me came much later, I see,
Speaker 3: because I gained confidence in the process.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll say that. I obviously I think I had,
Speaker 4: you know, having done having some experience in some of
Speaker 4: in comedy that I my confidence level was higher and
Speaker 4: able to you know, kind of throw things out whether
Speaker 4: people wanted it or not. AKA but McGee, my button,
Speaker 4: you know, I would just like adding for listeners, the
Speaker 4: button is kind of the last moment at the end
Speaker 4: of a scene that is often closes the scene with
Speaker 4: a joke or something that beat. And I had this
Speaker 4: habit of not letting the button just be whatever was written.
Speaker 4: I had to add another moment or a look or
Speaker 4: a line.
Speaker 3: And so if Joe is in a scene, he is
Speaker 3: the last one to speak almost always.
Speaker 4: And that's honestly, honestly, that's that's nervous center. That isn't
Speaker 4: necessarily all like look at me. It's a lot of
Speaker 4: it is nervous energy. A lot of it is just like.
Speaker 1: No, I loved it, you know, so I similar similar
Speaker 1: to Steph didn't really I think it took me a
Speaker 1: minute to kind of speak up. And for a long
Speaker 1: long time it wasn't even I don't think untill towards
Speaker 1: the end would I just like try shit. I would
Speaker 1: more just be like, h, something's off with this joke.
Speaker 1: Like That's kind of where I was for a long time.
Speaker 1: Like or I don't, you know, like just raising a
Speaker 1: question mark. But I learned so much from watching you
Speaker 1: from the get go, just like try shit out and
Speaker 1: be fucking Also, by the way, for a very long
Speaker 1: stretch of time, I was convinced that we were calling
Speaker 1: you button McGhee.
Speaker 2: Are you serious?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, And then I remember one day being like, oh,
Speaker 3: it's button, button McGee. I know it was about the button,
Speaker 3: but then I thought everyone was being extra.
Speaker 2: Lot But but McGhee butt, McGee.
Speaker 4: Did you have an explanation in your head as to
Speaker 4: what people may have meant by saying.
Speaker 3: That just like this is highly inappropriate in the workplace.
Speaker 1: No, I knew it was about I knew it was
Speaker 1: about the button, and I just thought that it was
Speaker 1: just short and like to be extra sassy, like and
Speaker 1: you know, give you shit.
Speaker 2: Fucking hell man, there's just like, yeah, we're.
Speaker 1: Just gonna go for the butt, you know, like the
Speaker 1: butt of the butt of the scene is up to
Speaker 1: butt McGee.
Speaker 2: Damn it.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean I feel like you both of you
Speaker 4: just kind of blossomed and grew the longer the show
Speaker 4: when and I think you guys were in and nailing
Speaker 4: it from the get go. But I understand when it's
Speaker 4: such a big show like that and you hadn't had
Speaker 4: that experience, how you kind of second guessed yourself, you know.
Speaker 2: And terrifying. Just like in the beginning especially, it was just.
Speaker 3: Like like first season, I think I just felt like
Speaker 3: what to do. I don't remember any of the second,
Speaker 3: third season, maybe a little of fourth I remember, but
Speaker 3: like I truly don't remember. But what I do remember
Speaker 3: is that you guys, I think about this all the time.
Speaker 3: Remember when we were sitting outside when we were shooting
Speaker 3: the pilot and we were sitting outside crafty and and
Speaker 3: he was like, we'll get into these spaces for the
Speaker 3: next seven years. And then we were all like we
Speaker 3: looked at each other like yeah, that'd be cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And then it was.
Speaker 3: It was such I mean, part of the experience of
Speaker 3: working on Brooklyn that made it so good was that,
Speaker 3: like we were all real friends with each other, Like
Speaker 3: we are still real friends with each other, you know,
Speaker 3: like we really respected and cared about each other, and.
Speaker 4: We did and we do and and not anymore.
Speaker 2: I don't respect either.
Speaker 4: I mean, classic guy, I'm moving on to bigger and
Speaker 4: better B and B so uh no, But you know.
Speaker 4: The other thing that really cemented that were the gigantic,
Speaker 4: enormous life moments that each of us were going aka
Speaker 4: marriage and children. That just cemented the whole thing, right,
Speaker 4: And I'll always I love that. I hate treasure it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1: And I also feel like the fact that we all
Speaker 1: jelled so quickly and that we all like actually became
Speaker 1: friends is like part of the magic sauce of life
Speaker 1: for the show. And I feel like, especially in comedy,
Speaker 1: like I I've been very lucky that I feel like
Speaker 1: almost everyone I've worked with I really liked and like
Speaker 1: become friends with or at least friends with while the
Speaker 1: thing was happening. And you know, but I can't imagine.
Speaker 1: Obviously we don't have to say names, but like have
Speaker 1: either of.
Speaker 5: You ever We're not at dinner, guys, we're on the
Speaker 5: pod at dinner, and then when we go to dinner,
Speaker 5: which out the names, but have particularly in comedy, because
Speaker 5: I feel like drama is a different thing.
Speaker 1: Like you hear about actors that hated each other and
Speaker 1: some like drama thing and they have all this chemistry
Speaker 1: and you're like, I get it, Like the chemistry is
Speaker 1: probably like they're fucking vitriol for each other, and like,
Speaker 1: I feel like that kind of maybe can work. But
Speaker 1: I feel like in comedy it's like the more you
Speaker 1: like each other, the more you get along, the more the.
Speaker 3: Work is like sort of elevated. I don't know, do
Speaker 3: you agree, disagree?
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts? I do I bought the monks dissel.
Speaker 4: I do agree. I had a point where you were
Speaker 4: talking and then I forgot it. But I think that
Speaker 4: trust is a trust is a big deal, right, especially
Speaker 4: in comedy, like feeling safe to fail right, which you
Speaker 4: guys finally felt safe enough after the first season or whenever,
Speaker 4: and that you know my experience in the State and
Speaker 4: what it could be. I know the state was dysfunctional
Speaker 4: early on, but like what we achieved was I feel
Speaker 4: really really good. And the lesson I took from that
Speaker 4: is that if you if you kind of make it
Speaker 4: about the you know, the group, the ensemble, and pass
Speaker 4: the football around like you will get something better than
Speaker 4: what you can do by yourself. And I don't know
Speaker 4: how relating it to your question, Melissa.
Speaker 1: But no, but I think I think that's such a
Speaker 1: good point for any like working relationship, right, even if
Speaker 1: we think of jobs or industries outside of what we do, right,
Speaker 1: Like that thing you said about like trusting each other
Speaker 1: to even fail, you know, and like passing the football
Speaker 1: around and like.
Speaker 2: Not making it's just about me, me me, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Like the shows that both of you have gone on
Speaker 4: to after Brooklyn, Like you know what it could be, right,
Speaker 4: you know what an amazing uh dynamic a cast can have.
Speaker 4: You know the steps that allow it to have a
Speaker 4: chance to be that, and you know the steps that
Speaker 4: will not allow it to be that, and you act accordingly,
Speaker 4: and so that that experience really of Brooklyn, and I
Speaker 4: was fortunate to have that reno parts of the state
Speaker 4: with you know, super bad. Those guys were great, you
Speaker 4: know you you know, you know what is needed and
Speaker 4: then and then you're quickly able to be like, oh
Speaker 4: that's not going to fly here or could work here,
Speaker 4: or this may work with this person, and then you
Speaker 4: just start moving right, so you you create your your
Speaker 4: your bubble of safety so you can glow, you know, yes,
Speaker 4: and hopefully allow others to glow.
Speaker 3: I mean, because that's the thing, right, Like you're not
Speaker 3: always going to work with your best friends, You're not
Speaker 3: always going to work with people who like you would
Speaker 3: even pick to hang out with. But if you can
Speaker 3: manage to have a relationship with them at work that
Speaker 3: feels like you are able to move with each other
Speaker 3: and trust each other at least in the work that
Speaker 3: you're doing, then it can succeed. No matter if you like,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe aren't the best friends, you can succeed
Speaker 3: in the work situation because you're able to say, you know, well,
Speaker 3: I could be generous in this way with you, like
Speaker 3: and give you what you need, and like, if you
Speaker 3: can't give me what I need, then I can give
Speaker 3: them somewhere else, you know.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I think it's like having a little less ego, right,
Speaker 1: and like keeping the thing that you're making in our case,
Speaker 1: uh as the most important thing, right, like always serving
Speaker 1: the story, the joke, story, the work, the jokes, like
Speaker 1: the whatever, right and like and it's that given take,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's not. I think it's yeah, having
Speaker 1: a little less you go to be like you're you're
Speaker 1: better at that you do that part.
Speaker 2: You know, the.
Speaker 4: Biggest advantage I think of having friends when you're doing comedy,
Speaker 4: and we did this in Brooklyn A lot is after
Speaker 4: you do a joke or something, after the take and
Speaker 4: go to Annie and be like, is that funny work?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Was that working?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I don't know. And if you're like yeah, it'd
Speaker 4: be like okay, good and then it's not if you
Speaker 4: don't trust that person, Oh you're just getting into a spiral, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And one of the great things about Andy as a
Speaker 4: as a producer was that, you know, I would pitch.
Speaker 4: I would pitch an idea and it would be okay,
Speaker 4: would but not quite work or it wouldn't be funny,
Speaker 4: but he wouldn't say that. He would kind of listen
Speaker 4: to what I was trying to do and then pitch
Speaker 4: the better joke or like or try this.
Speaker 2: So good at that and.
Speaker 4: He's super He's a great Listener's able to see what
Speaker 4: you're trying to do and then not judge it if
Speaker 4: it doesn't work, and then throughout the thing that works.
Speaker 4: And it was great And that that was a huge
Speaker 4: and Chelsea too, that was a huge That was a
Speaker 4: huge thing to have a huge resource.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I don't have any memory of having an
Speaker 1: idea or pitching something and someone going like you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, like or if they do you know,
Speaker 1: or if they did, they still used some it was
Speaker 1: good natured.
Speaker 4: It was good natured, and he couldn't build. I didn't
Speaker 4: feel judged by it. It was just like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: you felt safe enough to fill out a bad idea, right,
Speaker 4: I mean that is the key, because you're definitely not
Speaker 4: throwing out good ideas all the time. I mean that's
Speaker 4: just not how it works, you know.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean right exactly.
Speaker 4: No, No, you were. You were like ten for ten stea.
Speaker 2: I mean, our names are not Stephanie a Beatriz.
Speaker 3: But every time I didn't think that that was something
Speaker 3: that U that I really loved about watching Andre work
Speaker 3: sometimes because he would have these like really out of
Speaker 3: control ideas and then like yeah, the the watching of
Speaker 3: someone like really sort of hone in on what he
Speaker 3: specifically thought was funny, which was so outlandish sometimes where
Speaker 3: like I would remember being like, it's going to work
Speaker 3: and then you see it and you'd be like that
Speaker 3: was amazing.
Speaker 4: Trust get his comedy legs. Yeah, I mean it's it's
Speaker 4: a moment that we've all talked about so much, But
Speaker 4: that hot damn moment after that opened God, that just
Speaker 4: opened up the gates. It was just some like I mean,
Speaker 4: he had over he always arrived, but like then he
Speaker 4: was like he was there, he landed.
Speaker 1: For listeners who don't know the hot damn at the
Speaker 1: end of a cold No, was it a cold open.
Speaker 4: It was a cold open where we were all trying
Speaker 4: to figure.
Speaker 1: Out why I was late. Yes, was an improv from
Speaker 1: Andre Brower, and.
Speaker 2: It was like one of his first Like.
Speaker 1: I feel like it was also at a time where
Speaker 1: he had just started to throw things out and to
Speaker 1: try things. Yes, and then that one, like he just
Speaker 1: was watching for a long time and I like getting,
Speaker 1: as you said, his comedy legs together, and then that
Speaker 1: one came out and it's I could up the whole.
Speaker 2: Afterwards is so fast?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, it was such a release, I think because
Speaker 4: everyone was so rooting for him anyway, they like, you know,
Speaker 4: discover how amazing nailing a joke is or was the best?
Speaker 4: It really was.
Speaker 3: Why when you think about the stuff that you want
Speaker 3: to do in the future, like what is like the
Speaker 3: dream scenario for you in terms of like being able
Speaker 3: to do something again or something that you haven't done
Speaker 3: yet with people that you'd like to collaborate with.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is a really really good question because I've
Speaker 4: been you know, real talk, I've been like struggling with
Speaker 4: finding some joy in what I'm doing again, like you know,
Speaker 4: this business has changed so much, and that you know,
Speaker 4: I'm kind of getting back to like why did I
Speaker 4: want to do this? Acting? Like I'm why did I
Speaker 4: want to do this? Like an honest assessment of like
Speaker 4: what got me into acting? Why did I want to
Speaker 4: make movies? And because it's always nice to reset that way.
Speaker 4: So the short answer is like, I don't know, but
Speaker 4: I do know that it does involve probably directing or
Speaker 4: filmmaking a little bit more than acting, Like I'm ready,
Speaker 4: like I just will always have that bug to act,
Speaker 4: but there's there's like a bit of a hunger that's
Speaker 4: been satiated already that it's just not as hungry. And
Speaker 4: you know, in this town, you just gotta want it constantly,
Speaker 4: and you know, sometimes I want it and sometimes I don't,
Speaker 4: so like you know, so it's like what does that
Speaker 4: mean for Joe as like a creative person? Like, and
Speaker 4: I think that's what I've been maneuvering really honestly since
Speaker 4: Brooken ended. And I've had some really great projects that
Speaker 4: have happened since then, and there's one coming next year
Speaker 4: that I can't talk about that's exciting. But that being said,
Speaker 4: I feel still a little not lost, but I'm doing
Speaker 4: a lot of work. I'm doing a lot of work
Speaker 4: on myself with like what am I really in it for?
Speaker 4: And what do I want to achieve next. The vibe
Speaker 4: I feel is more kind of writing and directing. But
Speaker 4: as soon as that job comes are like, hey, Joe
Speaker 4: there thinking about this, do you want to get Yeah?
Speaker 4: Sure is it? As long as it's not a police officer,
Speaker 4: because I've done that about one hundred and eighty times.
Speaker 1: Let's as you as you should, throw script pages behind you.
Speaker 4: That's right, let's go down. It's great. I loved it,
Speaker 4: proud of it. Let's move it along like.
Speaker 2: It like it?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Uh okay, So Joe.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we do what's called nerd time in these episodes
Speaker 1: and where our lovely producers give us like articles and
Speaker 1: data and things about, you know, whatever topic we're discussing.
Speaker 1: And so one of the things that came up was
Speaker 1: the term work wife and work husband.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: Several articles on this topic.
Speaker 4: What is a work wife and work husband?
Speaker 3: What it's like somebody that you work with that you
Speaker 3: your relationship with them?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: I see you want it gives me the ick so bad.
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, some would probably say that, okay. If
Speaker 1: I was the type of person to like use this term,
Speaker 1: I've probably been like, andya's like my husband because like,
Speaker 1: you know, we're like together all day and you.
Speaker 4: Know what this is. This is the culture's problem with
Speaker 4: not just being able to talk about intimacy without meaning
Speaker 4: that it means.
Speaker 1: It's yes, yes, no, And it doesn't mean I have
Speaker 1: to call anyone other.
Speaker 3: Than my actual husband husband. That's fucking weird.
Speaker 4: It's great to be like, I feel like we have
Speaker 4: a very close intimate friendship because I feel like I
Speaker 4: can talk to you guys like I'm talking to you now,
Speaker 4: and I have that with many and that is awesome.
Speaker 4: And yes, you know, that term is just like I
Speaker 4: don't know why it rubbed me the wrong way, but
Speaker 4: it does.
Speaker 2: Because it's gross. I mean, it's gross, and I also
Speaker 2: think it's whatever.
Speaker 4: It's a term. I'm overreacting here, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no you're not.
Speaker 3: It's correct for this is the space for this. I
Speaker 3: feel like it bothers me so much because it implies
Speaker 3: that somehow my relationship with my I guess if you
Speaker 3: are already married, right, if you or if you have
Speaker 3: like a partnership in your life that is on the
Speaker 3: level of something that's committed and then you say like, oh,
Speaker 3: well that's my work, husband, it implies that like somehow
Speaker 3: this person is is this person at work is fulfilling
Speaker 3: needs for you that are unmet in your personal life.
Speaker 3: Right that part, With that part, it's okay to have
Speaker 3: someone at work or to have people that you work
Speaker 3: with or collaborate with that do fulfill some kind of
Speaker 3: like creative need or or like I can do this
Speaker 3: with these people. I can talk about this with this
Speaker 3: I'm like I tried to talk to Brad this morning
Speaker 3: about like I was talking about nos Faratu I just
Speaker 3: saw yesterday, and I was like trying to talk about
Speaker 3: female sexuality and film and like how it's like in
Speaker 3: The Witch and does Dave Eggers have like a weird
Speaker 3: thing about women and and whatever. As I'm talking to
Speaker 3: him and he's looking at me like I'm explaining I
Speaker 3: don't even.
Speaker 2: Know if question quantum physics, it would be like.
Speaker 3: Him trying to talk to me about football, right, which,
Speaker 3: like I'm listening. I want to know, I want to hear,
Speaker 3: and Brad is listening, like he's trying to you know,
Speaker 3: he's he wants to be there with me, but it's
Speaker 3: on a different level than maybe some of my creative
Speaker 3: friends might engage with that discussion. Right, that's one thing.
Speaker 3: But when when it's like when it's like crossing a line,
Speaker 3: when it's like when it's like so intimate that it's like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, that's where it gets icky to me because.
Speaker 4: It feels like.
Speaker 3: I don't know, And I'm also like not polyamorous, Like
Speaker 3: maybe polyamorous people are like would be totally don't.
Speaker 2: I actually don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm talking out of my ass now I have the idea.
Speaker 4: I think it's always hard for a person to say
Speaker 4: this relationship, friendship, platonic relationship outside my marriage is giving
Speaker 4: me something that my marriage isn't. I think that that's
Speaker 4: a hard thing. And but I think that's a very
Speaker 4: natural thing. And depending on you know, your partner, your
Speaker 4: partner would understand that your partner's also got that outlet
Speaker 4: going to probably right, and yeah, but it's like it's
Speaker 4: hard to admit that you're not complete, right, you know
Speaker 4: that you don't fulfill everything you know and and does
Speaker 4: it's no reflection on your completeness, you know, and uh, yes,
Speaker 4: so I understand why it's hard to navigate that stuff.
Speaker 4: But thank god, there's some other people that you know,
Speaker 4: the person I care about is like being you know, met,
Speaker 4: that was like being fulfilled, like you know, I trust them,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 1: You know it's yeah, yeah, well yeah, it's like this
Speaker 1: false notion that like our partner has to be all
Speaker 1: the things for us, like and that that's impossible. That
Speaker 1: does That's not real, No one is, you know.
Speaker 2: And I don't want.
Speaker 3: I don't want I may and I don't want I
Speaker 3: don't know to be like my work husband, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean.
Speaker 2: I'm not I don't like it.
Speaker 4: I like the vernacular. Who do we like? Who do
Speaker 4: we talk to about?
Speaker 2: Dear society? All anxiety that is listening right now?
Speaker 4: It is very.
Speaker 2: It is very.
Speaker 3: It is a very really makes like a a name
Speaker 3: for something of like this person understands my needs in
Speaker 3: this work environment in a way that nobody else does,
Speaker 3: and I feel really intimate and close with them in
Speaker 3: a work environment.
Speaker 2: Right, can we rebranded?
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a better label for that, Like
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just your collaborat girl. Just oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's baby Girl, Girl, It's baby girl and baby boy.
Speaker 3: Have you seen by the way, Joe, I love?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I really, that's what I call it. Well, I
Speaker 4: did like it, and since I saw it, I liked
Speaker 4: it more like I classified. I keep thinking about it
Speaker 4: as either bloomers or faders, which the definition being obvious,
Speaker 4: and that's definitely a bloomer. And I and and I
Speaker 4: just started. It stuck with me longer than I thought
Speaker 4: it would. When I walked out of the theater and yeah.
Speaker 2: What about did you see the substance?
Speaker 4: Yes? Same, Well, although that I liked immediately, the whole
Speaker 4: you know what, the substance which I loved, the thing,
Speaker 4: the the thing I kept thinking about at the end
Speaker 4: of that movie. And I don't want to spoil it,
Speaker 4: but there's a scene where a lot of extras go
Speaker 4: through a lot of makeup. Okay, leave it at that,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh my god, that day, that day
Speaker 4: of shooting down logistics, Sang goes dress. Who's cleaning that
Speaker 4: is this one has to be?
Speaker 3: That's why I was like, this is one take. This
Speaker 3: got me one take because it's how.
Speaker 4: It might be a two take. It like we did
Speaker 4: a sketch on the on the on the State called
Speaker 4: Pope's a Visit, where the Pope comes in a white
Speaker 4: thing and we we kind of like unload a bunch
Speaker 4: of grape juice on him, and we had like like
Speaker 4: a gutter, like like a gutter around the sound stage.
Speaker 4: The immediate set to like collect all this stuff and
Speaker 4: drain it and then do it again. And and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 4: maybe they did that. But even so, there was only
Speaker 4: like five people in this sketch.
Speaker 3: I mean, this was like.
Speaker 2: Hair makeup up. You haven't seen it.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it yet. I have seen a baby girl.
Speaker 1: I did see baby girl. I don't think that's for me.
Speaker 1: I wanted it to be horny and I read a
Speaker 1: review and I was like, this isn't horny. I want
Speaker 1: to see like horn dog situation.
Speaker 2: It's a little I would say, it's a little. It's
Speaker 2: it's both. It's a little.
Speaker 3: Also like what in what universe a you married to
Speaker 3: Antonio Baneraz and you don't want to buck the living
Speaker 3: daylights out of him?
Speaker 2: You know, like what are we talking you?
Speaker 4: You?
Speaker 3: You should?
Speaker 2: I want you to see it.
Speaker 1: It's because it's not Yeah, it's no, it's a little
Speaker 1: more complex than that, and it's I think it's a
Speaker 1: good it's nuanced, and it's an interesting take on I
Speaker 1: think female sexuality and in particular in a later not
Speaker 1: later stage making makes right.
Speaker 2: Now I know you are, but it was for me,
Speaker 2: it was a bloomer.
Speaker 1: I thought about it for days more better.
Speaker 3: Can you talk about anything that's like work related that's
Speaker 3: coming up that you want to talk about.
Speaker 4: I did. I did a guest star on on Ghosts,
Speaker 4: which should be very fun. I want to come and
Speaker 4: I don't know when that's coming out, but that was
Speaker 4: a fun, little little gig. It made me think of
Speaker 4: us in Montreal and just.
Speaker 2: For laughs, Oh that's right. They shoot in Montreal, right,
Speaker 2: and had a.
Speaker 4: Good time with a good group of people. They have
Speaker 4: a great vibe up there, the crew and that cast
Speaker 4: up there is really awesome.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, Ukarsh is an old buddy of mine.
Speaker 1: We went to NYU together.
Speaker 4: Oh that's right, Yes, that was I had my scene
Speaker 4: with him. He was terrific.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a great guy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's one. And then I'm doing writing. I'm writing
Speaker 4: some stuff and I'm trying to get something going with
Speaker 4: the Preducer of Hot Frosty and get another project going
Speaker 4: with him, another movie and all very premature, of course,
Speaker 4: but it's something. It's in Avenue. Yeah, it's the Street.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I like that. I love that and I
Speaker 2: love you Joe.
Speaker 4: You guys. I'm glad you guys did this podcast and
Speaker 4: you guys are rocking it and I always loved to
Speaker 4: you guys. Send your sending.
Speaker 2: Let me Joe.
Speaker 4: So, you guys are the coolest. Thanks for having me,
Speaker 4: Thanks for being here.
Speaker 1: Thanks, you're the coolest. Thanks for making the time. We
Speaker 1: appreciate you.
Speaker 4: More Better.
Speaker 3: Do you have something you'd like to be more better
Speaker 3: at that you want us to talk about in a
Speaker 3: future episode?
Speaker 1: Can you relate to our struggles or have you tried
Speaker 1: one of our tips and tricks?
Speaker 3: Shoot us your thoughts and ideas at Morebetter pod at
Speaker 3: gmail dot com and include a voice note if you
Speaker 3: want to be featured on the pod. Ooh, More Better
Speaker 3: with Stephanie Melissa is a production from Wvsound and iHeartMedia's
Speaker 3: Mikutura podcast network, hosted by Me, Stephanie Beatriz, and Melissa Fumero.
Speaker 3: More Better is produced by Isis Madrid and Sophie Spencer Zabels,
Speaker 3: our executive producers are Wilmer Valderrama and Leo Klem at Wvsound.
Speaker 3: This episode was edited by Isis Madrid and engineered by
Speaker 3: Sean Tracy and features original music by Madison Davenport and
Speaker 3: Heylo boy Our. Cover art is by Vincent Remis and
Speaker 3: photography by David Avolos. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit
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Speaker 3: your favorite shows. See you next week's Saga Bye