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Speaker 1: Welcome to you Stuff you should know from how Stuffworks

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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Speaker 2: Charles W. Chuck Bryant aka Ciskel.

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Speaker 3: And Ebert save it's the I'll see.

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Speaker 2: And Jerry's over there. I guess she's Gene Shallett. That's

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Speaker 2: the stuff you should know, triumph for.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why that took on me so much

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Speaker 1: because Jeane Salat's a funny looking I guess, yeah, Jerry's not.

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Speaker 1: I'm just picturing her with a big afro and a

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Speaker 1: mustache and like a tweet jacket and bad opinions about movies.

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Speaker 3: Geene Shllett had a look for sure.

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Speaker 1: Still thought he's around right, Oh yeah, I think so. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Rip both Ciskel and Ebert, so sad. I know, have

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Speaker 1: you seen the Roger Ebert documentary?

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Speaker 2: No, I've heard nothing but good things.

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Speaker 3: Really really good, very touching.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Is it a something life?

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Speaker 3: Life? Uh like mine, Life with Me, Life on top,

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Speaker 3: Life itself, Life with thumbs, Life itself, Life itself, Life

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Speaker 3: with thumbs.

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Speaker 1: It was really great and I watched it on made

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Speaker 1: the mistake of watching on a plane, and I was

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Speaker 1: just like.

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Speaker 3: My allergies were acting up. Oh yeah, oh yeah I was.

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Speaker 1: I was watering because of your allergies. No, because it

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Speaker 1: was sad. I was crying. Do you want me to

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Speaker 1: say it?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, crying on a plane. I was confused there

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Speaker 3: for a second.

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Speaker 1: That's better than when I watch other movies that are

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Speaker 1: on my laptop that are like like bad violence or

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Speaker 1: nudity or something. I'm always just like oh, and I

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Speaker 1: kind of lower the laptop and it's like I.

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Speaker 3: Didn't realize this was in here, and the lady next

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Speaker 3: to me is just.

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Speaker 2: Like, ugh, you disgust me?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I don't. I want to be sensitive people

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Speaker 1: around me. You know, I'm not one of those jerks.

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Speaker 1: It's like just lives in my own bubble.

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Speaker 3: It's like watching some sex scene on a plane, You're

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Speaker 3: like elbowing the lady.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, no, I hate it. It was so embarras

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Speaker 1: happened to me a couple of times. I'm like I

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Speaker 1: needed to start going PG on movies airplanes.

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Speaker 2: Judd Apatow huh am, I right, he's unpredictable.

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Speaker 3: Yeah all right, So Chuck, this is your episode to

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Speaker 3: shine man, is it? Yes, you're a movie guy too, though,

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Speaker 3: I like movies.

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Speaker 2: But I've I almost consciously don't let myself watch movies

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Speaker 2: on a like a film aficionado.

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Speaker 3: Level, your pure enjoyment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't ever want to see the individual shots

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Speaker 2: and just be like, oh, well that could have been

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Speaker 2: better whatever. Yeah, and just missed the movie as a whole.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I fall somewhere in the middle of that. I

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Speaker 3: try to let go.

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Speaker 1: But like our our video producer director Casey is is

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Speaker 1: pretty bad about that. And our buddy Scotty who shot

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Speaker 1: our TV show, Oh he's the worst. Yeah, he's just

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Speaker 1: the camera working that lighting in that scene.

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Speaker 3: Scott's awesome. Hey Scott, Hey Casey.

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Speaker 1: They're all in here with this in spirit. And hey,

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Speaker 1: this is the last show in the studio. Yeah, last

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Speaker 1: episode in the old office.

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Speaker 3: Yep, Murder Room.

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Speaker 2: Couldn't feel more neutral about it.

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Speaker 3: I actually feel less than neutral, less than zero. It's

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Speaker 3: it's weird. That was a good movie. Thank you, great shots.

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Speaker 3: I say thank you as if I directed it.

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Speaker 2: I not only directed it, I also played Andrew McCarthy. Uh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm ready to get the heck out of here. Man.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to get in that new office and

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Speaker 1: that Yeah, it's gonna be good, tiny little dedicated studio.

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Speaker 3: Whole new world. All right, let's do this.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So, Chuck films, you've seen one or two of

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Speaker 2: them in your time? Sure, have you seen any of

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Speaker 2: the ones in this list? I know you've seen a

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Speaker 2: few of them, but have you seen like some of

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Speaker 2: the early ones I've seen.

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Speaker 1: Well, we'll just go piece by piece because I have

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Speaker 1: not seen Battleship Patankn.

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Speaker 3: Okay, but I do love Mandy Patankin.

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Speaker 2: It's a little different, yes, in spelling pronunciation meaning the

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Speaker 2: whole thing.

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Speaker 3: Uh huh.

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Speaker 2: But it's close, I guess.

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Speaker 1: But we're talking, of course, about films that change filmmaking

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Speaker 1: somewhere or another. And the first one on the list

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Speaker 1: is from nineteen twenty five, Battleship Patinkin.

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Speaker 3: That's hard for me to say, which is.

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Speaker 2: Not the first movie, by the way. The first screen

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Speaker 2: movie was Workers Leaving the Lumieer Factory, which is forty

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Speaker 2: seven seconds long and the most boring piece of celluloid

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Speaker 2: anyone's ever picked together. But it was the first, that's right.

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Speaker 2: This was many years. That was a full thirty years

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Speaker 2: before Battleship Potempkin. By the time thirty years had passed,

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Speaker 2: like we were doing like narratives, and there was banning

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Speaker 2: and all sorts of great stuff. Yeah, and Battleship Patinkin

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Speaker 2: fell under both of those umbrellas. It was a narrative story.

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Speaker 2: It was a silent movie, that's right, But it told

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Speaker 2: a pretty clear story. And it was a bit of

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Speaker 2: Russian propaganda as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it tells a story of a nineteen oh five

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Speaker 1: uprising in where there were Russian sailors. Basically, there was

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Speaker 1: a mutiny aboard a ship and then the bad guys,

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Speaker 1: the Cossacks, came in looking for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, nineteen oh five, that would have been rising up

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Speaker 2: against tyranny, would have been rising up against the Romanov monarchy.

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Speaker 2: I guess nice. But it was made in nineteen twenty five,

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Speaker 2: so this is a time when you know, Lenin and

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Speaker 2: Trotsky and all those dudes were running around trying to

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Speaker 2: do the great experiment. Yeah, and it ends up it

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Speaker 2: turns out that the Battleship Petempkin was banned in some countries.

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Speaker 2: Some countries are like, we don't want this Rusky propaganda, right,

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Speaker 2: But Russia itself later on banned it when Stalin came

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Speaker 2: to power because he was a self aware dictator.

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Speaker 3: Was that the deal? Yeah, okay, he knew.

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Speaker 2: This could be a metaphor for rising up against my dictatorship.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to just ban the uh yeah, even

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Speaker 2: though it's Russian propaganda.

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Speaker 1: Well, filmatically, I need to bring the history, by the way.

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Speaker 1: Filmatically speaking, it was a landmark film because of the

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Speaker 1: montage and most notably the Russi or Soviet theory of montage,

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Speaker 1: which is basically that your impact is going to come

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Speaker 1: from juxtaposition of shots and not necessarily a smooth sequence

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Speaker 1: of shots, right, and it should be rhythmic instead of

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Speaker 1: necessarily being tied to the story. It was like a

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Speaker 1: rhythmic series of shots. And this one is popular. It

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Speaker 1: was the Odessa Steps sequence as one of the five acts,

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Speaker 1: and it is huge because it has been aped and

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Speaker 1: mimicked and mocked and homaged probably more than about more

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Speaker 1: but a lot of times in film history.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, the montage it's like a go to editing technique, right.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well the montage in general, but specifically the

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Speaker 1: Odessa Steps.

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Speaker 3: Oh, there are two notable parts in that sequence.

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Speaker 1: One is the you know, it's basically a big charge

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Speaker 1: on these these grand steps leading up to a building

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Speaker 1: in a big battle.

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Speaker 3: Odessa, Texas.

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Speaker 1: And there's a part of it where there's the old

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Speaker 1: the old baby carriage going down the steps. You know

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Speaker 1: what's gonna happen to the baby? And it sounds tired

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Speaker 1: because we've seen that in uh, you know, The Untouchables.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, notably, I did not find it tiresome.

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Speaker 1: Naked Gun thirty three and the third Yeah, everything is illuminated,

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Speaker 1: the great movie by Leeb Schreiber. That was from directly

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Speaker 1: from the Odessa step sequence in Battleship Patinkin the baby carriage. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the old shot through the shot in the eye

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Speaker 1: through the glasses, Oh cool, that comes from this movie too.

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Speaker 3: They were the first ones to do it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've seen that in Woody Allen's Love and

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Speaker 1: Death and Bananas and.

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Speaker 3: Of course The Godfather.

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Speaker 1: The great sequence where Moe Green's getting the massage and

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Speaker 1: he looks up and puts on.

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Speaker 3: His glasses during a montage. Yeah, that's exactly the whole

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Speaker 3: sequence montage.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because there was an assassination on the steps as well.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, that was definitely was a double.

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Speaker 3: Who was that? That was Francis Ford Coppola.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he was clearly aware of Battleship Pat Tempkin, clearly.

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Speaker 2: I was trying to think of other examples of montages

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Speaker 2: and the only thing I could come up with was

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Speaker 2: the eighteen building something. But that counts as a montage, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's like some related in some way related shots that

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Speaker 2: are kind of put together that a little bit transcend like.

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Speaker 3: Story in itself. Yeah, like Rocky training for a fight.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's another good A lot of times just.

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Speaker 3: Set to music. Yeah, I love it. That's the only

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Speaker 3: one you can think of.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the great movie Brazil too has the shot

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Speaker 1: through the glasses bit, as I like to call it.

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Speaker 3: So that's Battleship of Dinkin, doesn't it. One of the

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Speaker 3: Nazis and Raiders of the Lost Dark gets shot through

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Speaker 3: the glasses.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that wouldn't surprise me. It's been it's been off homaged,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So Battleship Pat Tempkin was a It made a

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Speaker 2: pretty big splash in nineteen twenty five. In nineteen twenty six,

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Speaker 2: the following year, the next movie on the list. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't his first, but it really solidified I think his

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Speaker 2: stardom Buster Keaton stardom.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the general rightfully so too. Yeah, he was one

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Speaker 3: of the.

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Speaker 1: Great Well, some people call him the greatest stuntman to

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Speaker 1: ever live.

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Speaker 3: He's done some stuff that I think earns him that, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because I mean this is.

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Speaker 1: Back in the day too, where he was legitimately risking

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Speaker 1: his life, right, you know, like.

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Speaker 2: That the very famously where he's standing on the street

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Speaker 2: in front of a house and then the whole front

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Speaker 2: of the house falls over him and the window just

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Speaker 2: goes right around him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I watch that again today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe he did that. And there's actually a

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Speaker 2: half of a second where his arm jerks up because

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Speaker 2: he's startled as the house finally makes its way like

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Speaker 2: into his peripheral vision. Yeah, and it has to be

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Speaker 2: one of the most dangerous things that human beings ever

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Speaker 2: done on film.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure the whole time before that was like

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Speaker 1: we did the math, right, he did the math.

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Speaker 2: Do the math again, Do.

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Speaker 1: The math again, Show me the math, Show me the math,

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Speaker 1: because that's all it was. It was math in measurements, right.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, he could have been squashed and killed very easily, and.

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Speaker 2: He had a lot of faith in everybody who was

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Speaker 2: pulling off this stunt with him. You know, he had

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Speaker 2: to just stand there. That was his whole thing is

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Speaker 2: he had to just stand there, and his bit was

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Speaker 2: that he was he played it straight constantly. He was

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Speaker 2: a stonefaced actor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, deadpan.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he kind of started that whole thing because his

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Speaker 1: big I was about to say rival, but I guess

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Speaker 1: just contemporary Charlie Chaplin, while similar in some ways, was

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Speaker 1: completely different because Chaplin was constantly mugging for the camera

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Speaker 1: and like asking for the audience sympathy.

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Speaker 2: Right, raising his eyebrows or yeah.

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Speaker 3: Like look, what's happening to me? Come on, come on?

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Speaker 3: Where his Buster Keaton would just he had that dead

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Speaker 3: pan look the whole time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he would go from like a house falling around

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Speaker 2: him to jumping on a train or something like that

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Speaker 2: with just the same blank facial expression.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the reason this is a highly influential film the

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Speaker 1: generals because it kind of showcases the best of both

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Speaker 1: the amazing stunts that would be mimicked and throughout the

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Speaker 1: years and built upon, and then the deadpan style that

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Speaker 1: influenced everyone from obviously Bill Murray is one of the great.

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Speaker 3: Deadpan actors of all time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you can count the number of times Bill

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Speaker 1: Murray even smiles in a movie on like two hands,

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Speaker 1: sure much less like apes or laughs or anything.

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Speaker 2: Michael Sarah's mentioned in here, and I'm like, he, I

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Speaker 2: think he might have Bill Murray beat as far as

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Speaker 2: the dead pan pan actor goes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Zach galafan Actus is on the list, he's

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Speaker 1: super deadpan.

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Speaker 3: Leslie Nielsen, of course. Amy Poehler, I think is a

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Speaker 3: woman that's a very dead pan has a deadpan style.

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Speaker 3: Jason Schwartzman.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but people say, is this all is a direct

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Speaker 1: descendant of Buster Keaton's work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you think we're overstating this, go watch

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Speaker 2: any Buster Keaton movie. Yeah, you will be thrilled and delighted.

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Speaker 2: And if your attention span has been shredded to ribbons

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Speaker 2: by the Internet, just go on onto YouTube and type

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Speaker 2: in Buster Keaton and it'll bring up all sorts of

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Speaker 2: clips of his awesome stunts.

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Speaker 3: Pretty great.

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Speaker 2: He will be thrilled in as I promise.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think I made a note here, by

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Speaker 1: the way, that we have a fatty arbuckle retraction to

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Speaker 1: make Remember when we called him out as the rapist.

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Speaker 3: Murderer, I didn't say murderer. Well we said rapist at least, right,

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Speaker 3: but we were taking the task by fan he was,

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Speaker 3: he had, he was acquitted of all that stuff, and

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Speaker 3: apparently he didn't do either act and his career in

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Speaker 3: life and family name were ruined forever. So he was

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Speaker 3: evidently done a grave miss justice, and we sort of

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Speaker 3: cavalierly just still called him that today. Yeah, I need

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Speaker 3: to look into it more, all right. So next up

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Speaker 3: we have the Jazz Singer, the nineteen twenty seven edition.

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Speaker 2: Not the Neil diamond one.

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Speaker 3: No, and there was one in between two with Danny Thomas.

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Speaker 3: I believe I like Neil Diamonds. It's good. I never

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Speaker 3: saw you ever see it? No, No, it's not bad.

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Speaker 1: But this is the original from Alan Crossland, and it

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Speaker 1: is notable because it was.

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Speaker 3: The first feature length.

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Speaker 1: Movie that was at least twenty five spoken dialogue.

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Speaker 2: Right, does that make sense? Yeah, it's totally new.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't the first talkie because they had short

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Speaker 1: films that were talkies, and there was a movie the

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Speaker 1: next year I'm sorry, yeah, in nineteen twenty eight called

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Speaker 1: Lights of New York that had one hundred percent full

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Speaker 1: spoken dialogue. But the Jazz singer had a mix of

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Speaker 1: music and spoken dialogue. Right, the first big, big daddy

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Speaker 1: feature length film to.

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Speaker 3: Do so right with substantial dialogue, right. Yeah. And they.

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Speaker 2: Did it in the most roundabout difficult way that you

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Speaker 2: could possibly do it, which is to record the audio

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Speaker 2: and the soundtrack, both the dialogue and the music, onto

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Speaker 2: vinyl records.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, probably wax records.

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Speaker 2: Really, and then the projectionists had to sync the record

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Speaker 2: up with the film strip so everything was in sync.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was a device called a vitaphone that Warner Brothers

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Speaker 1: sunk about half a million into this company called Western

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Speaker 1: Electric who invented it, and it was actually physically connected

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Speaker 1: to the projector's motor, so they did while they did

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Speaker 1: have to sink it was it was a physical connection

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Speaker 1: between the phonograph player and the projection.

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Speaker 3: Real, I guess, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it went on to gross three and a half

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Speaker 1: million bucks for nineteen twenty seven.

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Speaker 3: That's man, a lot of dough. That's a ton of dough.

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Speaker 3: That's like five six million dollars today, at least, yeah,

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Speaker 3: at least, but was ineligible for the Best Picture because

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Speaker 3: they were just like, you can't compete with the rest,

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Speaker 3: it's not fair. Oh wow, because everything else is silent

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Speaker 3: and everyone's going to vote for you. Yeah, so that

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Speaker 3: changed the whole game for sure.

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Speaker 2: We will continue on with our awesome and engrossing list

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Speaker 2: right after this. So, Chuck, if you'll notice, the first

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Speaker 2: three movies in our list, the first three films that

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Speaker 2: changed everything happened in nineteen twenty five, twenty six, and

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Speaker 2: twenty seven.

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Speaker 3: Things were changing fast.

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Speaker 2: They really were. I mean, like we by leaps and bounds. Sure,

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Speaker 2: but you can also make the case that there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of new ground to cover. So just about

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Speaker 2: anybody who did anything new that was noteworthy of the innovation. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was a big innovation. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Harder to innovate these days, it is.

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Speaker 2: And if you'll notice on the list, so the earliest

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Speaker 2: ones were like technical editing innovations. Now, starting with Citizen

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Speaker 2: Kane from nineteen forty one, we started to get into

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Speaker 2: innovations in storytelling, which is a lot more nuanced than

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Speaker 2: you know, doing your own stunts or using a montage

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Speaker 2: or something. It's figuring out how to tell a story

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Speaker 2: in a much less linear narrative fashion. And Citizen Kme

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Speaker 2: was one of the early ones to pioneer a non

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Speaker 2: linear narrative.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, did you you saw this? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't see it untill I mean it was

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Speaker 1: probably like probably about fifteen years ago, but like way

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Speaker 1: later than you would think I would have seen.

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Speaker 3: This is a big film, buff.

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Speaker 2: I saw it in college at a in a film class.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Sure. Often. Yeah, if you sign up for a

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Speaker 3: film class, you're going to study Citizen exactly pretty much.

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Speaker 3: And I finally found out what Rosebud was. Don't ruin it.

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Speaker 3: I won't.

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Speaker 1: But it is a landmark film in every way, and

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Speaker 1: it has often been top of best Films of All

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Speaker 1: Time lists for great reasons, one of which, like you said,

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Speaker 1: the non linear narrative was a really unique thing at

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Speaker 1: the time. Although flashback wasn't brand new, it was the

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Speaker 1: first time it had been this extensive and effective in

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Speaker 1: the story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because, I mean it's substantial enough that it really

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Speaker 2: cuts up the flow. Oh yeah, you know, it's not

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Speaker 2: like a quick flashback and then come back and the

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Speaker 2: actors like staring off into space to transition back into

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Speaker 2: the present again. I mean like it was all over

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Speaker 2: the place.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Some of the more concrete cinematic landmarks, one was using

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Speaker 1: deep focus.

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Speaker 3: Director of photography.

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Speaker 1: Greg Toland legend used he had used deep focus before

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Speaker 1: on a movie called Long Voyage Home, but it's all

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Speaker 1: over the place in Citizen Kane. And that basically means

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Speaker 1: if you see a shot where something very far away

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Speaker 1: is in focus in the shot, basically where everything's in

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Speaker 1: focus with.

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Speaker 2: The background in the foreground or yeah, and focus so

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Speaker 2: you can press pause and look around like you're sticking

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Speaker 2: your head into a box.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's called deep focus.

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Speaker 1: And it was brand new as far as Citizen Gain goes,

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Speaker 1: is how extensive it used it.

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Speaker 3: One of the other things was off center framing.

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Speaker 1: It was a big, you know, pretty common thing to

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Speaker 1: just center whatever the main action was, either the character

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Speaker 1: or the object, And Citizen Kaine had a lot of

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Speaker 1: things where the main focus of the scene the character,

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Speaker 1: maybe even off screen, which was really weird at the time.

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Speaker 1: People didn't know what to think of it. Expressionistic lighting

380
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Speaker 1: back then, everything they just lit it. They're like, make

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Speaker 1: sure everything's well lit.

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Speaker 2: But it was an autopremeter. Also like a big pioneer

383
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Speaker 2: with that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so.

385
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,200
Speaker 2: With Dalm for Murder, I think he.

386
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Speaker 3: Directed that was it Hitchcock.

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Speaker 2: I think that was Hitchcock was it okay, Well, autopremmeter

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Speaker 2: directed stuff like that, though, right he was. He used

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Speaker 2: moody lighting and shot yeah and stuff a lot.

390
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Speaker 3: I probably messed that up. People are gonna be for murder.

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Speaker 3: I think it was preventy okay.

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Speaker 1: But orson Welles, of course, I don't think we even mentioned.

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Speaker 1: That's who wrote, directed, and starred and produced. And I

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Speaker 1: think he even edited a Citizen Kane.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just assumed everybody knew that, you know.

396
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Speaker 1: Yeah, he came from the theater where you create mood

397
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Speaker 1: with lighting only.

398
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Speaker 3: Certain parts of the stage.

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Speaker 1: So he brought that into the movies and it was

400
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Speaker 1: very evocative and set the mood well, and people are like, man,

401
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,200
Speaker 1: why we lighten everything all bright all the time?

402
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,199
Speaker 3: Look at Citizen Kane. It really worked a couple of

403
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 3: other things, One of which.

404
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Speaker 1: I know you will appreciate, sir, is that he pretty

405
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Speaker 1: much invented the wipe.

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Speaker 3: Oh the star white, not the star white, but it followed.

407
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:53,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, the star wipe followed, which I know is your

408
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Speaker 1: favorite transition in cinema.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's all Star.

410
00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 2: Wars star because it almost makes a sound, you know.

411
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Speaker 2: And one of the way I want to say, you're right,

412
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Speaker 2: Dallen for Murder it was Hitchcock.

413
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,359
Speaker 3: Oh was it? Yeah? Okay, what was premature? Did you

414
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:08,840
Speaker 3: look that up?

415
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,440
Speaker 2: He did one called Laura the Man with the Golden Arm.

416
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Speaker 2: It's not who I'm thinking of. I'm thinking of a

417
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Speaker 2: director named Auto who directed in like the twenties or thirties,

418
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Speaker 2: and he directed like moody, like like moody movies, like yeah,

419
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 2: murder movies. Yeah, like fil noir, Yes, film noir. That's

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Speaker 2: exactly what I was going for. And I don't remember

421
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Speaker 2: who it was.

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Speaker 3: Maybe his name was Auto film Moore. He's French.

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Speaker 1: And then one final thing, of course, that you could

424
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Speaker 1: study Citizen Kane for a week in the film class.

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Speaker 1: So this is an overview. But the low angle shots.

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Speaker 1: People didn't use a lot of lower high angle shots

427
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 1: back then. It was kind of just shot from straight

428
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 1: on and Orson Welles even dug out cut out the

429
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Speaker 1: floor a lot of times to get the camera lower.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

431
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,920
Speaker 1: And for the first time we saw ceilings in view

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Speaker 1: in a movie, because quite often things were shot on

433
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Speaker 1: a sound stage where you don't have ceilings, and he

434
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 1: wanted those low angle shots. So they used fabric most

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00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 1: times to act as a ceiling, but very effective shots

436
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Speaker 1: of from below of Orson Wells as. I mean, it

437
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,679
Speaker 1: wasn't exactly William Randolphurst, but it was an approximation of

438
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: William Randolphurst, right, so very effective low angle stuff that Now,

439
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 1: I mean, we take for granted all these things, but

440
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 1: you know, there would be no pulp fiction in that

441
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 1: nonlinear storytelling. If there was no well maybe somebody would

442
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Speaker 1: have done it, but maybe eventually.

443
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Speaker 2: But he was the first. He did the first, and

444
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 2: that's why it was innovative.

445
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 3: Exactly.

446
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 2: It's Fritz Lang.

447
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go, Fritz Lang, Metropolis and Am just them.

448
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 3: That's okay, Yeah, it's all making sense now.

449
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 2: You get confused.

450
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you were right on, You were right there.

451
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 2: Fritz and Auto are not close. I mean they're both German,

452
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 2: but that's about it.

453
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know the difference between and dial M

454
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: just a telephone.

455
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 3: What's up next, Chuck Breathless one of my faves.

456
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 2: So I am going to rely on you mostly for

457
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 2: this one because I looked up what the French new

458
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 2: wave really did, what it accounted for. Yeah, and like

459
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 2: all of the essays I found were hard to they

460
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 2: were dense. Yeah, and I didn't really understand. I understood

461
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 2: that the French New Wave like changed everything, and that

462
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 2: a lot of the movies that I know and love

463
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 2: today are the offspring of the French New Wave, but

464
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 2: I still didn't get exactly specifically what the French New

465
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 2: Wave did.

466
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 3: And you're going to allow me to summarize, says yeah,

467
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 3: no pressure.

468
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: Well, for me, the French New Wave basically ushered in

469
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: an era of what now I think most people might

470
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: associate with indie filmmaking okay, okay, like handheld camera work

471
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 1: and what some people at the time considered amateurish camera work,

472
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 1: movies where maybe not a lot seemingly happens, you know,

473
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: nothing grand happens, which was the case in Breathless. A

474
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 1: lot of people didn't like it at the time because

475
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, not much happens. You know

476
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: that the two leads in the movie, Jean Paul Belmondo

477
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: and Geene c Berg, weren't really like, didn't show express

478
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: a whole lot of deep love, and there weren't these

479
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: big moments of love and affection and these huge action sequences,

480
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: And it was described as flat by a lot of people.

481
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of indie movies do that

482
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 1: just kind of show life as it happens.

483
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so without Breathless, who wouldn't have like Fallow Rocket.

484
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 3: Maybe.

485
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: Wes Anderson's definitely a big French New wave guy, Yeah

486
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: for sure. But godar John lu Goodard who directed it,

487
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: and Truffau and some other French New Wave forefathers were

488
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: film critics at first.

489
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah. They decided as a.

490
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 1: Group, like, we want to look at cinnamon a new

491
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: way and do something different.

492
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 3: So they went and started making their own movies.

493
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 2: That's like James Fenimore Cooper, Yeah, the guy who wrote

494
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 2: Last of the Mohicans.

495
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 3: Oh really Yeah.

496
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 2: He apparently used to complain that like nobody wrote good

497
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 2: books anymore, and so I think his wife or something said, well,

498
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 2: why don't you do it, big shot? And he did.

499
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 2: In the books he wrote really were so great. But

500
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 2: he went and wrote them, and he wrote a bunch

501
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 2: of them too.

502
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 1: One of my favorite foresides ever is the second to

503
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: the Last of the Mohicans. It's just a line of

504
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: Native Americans and the second to the last one they're

505
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 1: online facing away. He just sort of turning around and

506
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: waving camera. I guess the camera at Gary Larson's hand,

507
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: So Breathless is notable for those reasons. It kind of

508
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: kicked off the French New Wave. But the use of

509
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: jump cut editing, which we see so much now, it

510
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 1: was the first movie and it was very jarring at

511
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: the time to see jump cuts in a movie. And

512
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: that's when you're showing, like, uh, I guess the best

513
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: way to describe it as multiple shots of the same

514
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 1: subject or thing from different angles.

515
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 2: Right, It's like you indicate the progression of time or

516
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 2: movement or something by just cutting quickly rather than focusing

517
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 2: on somebody walking down the street for five minutes, you

518
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 2: cut a couple of times, and all of a sudden

519
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 2: they're just closer to the camera, and then closer and closer,

520
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 2: and then they're past the camera.

521
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 1: It's a jump cut, yeah, Or even as simple as

522
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: something as simple as like you're going to leave the house,

523
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: so you go and pick up your keys and you

524
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: put on your coat. Instead of showing all that you

525
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: come out of the bedroom, Boom, you're putting on your coat. Boom,

526
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: you're putting the keys in the door.

527
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 3: Right exactly.

528
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 2: You're just showing the high highlights of this progression of

529
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 2: stuff where that would otherwise be boring to watch the

530
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 2: whole thing. But it also is used to create tension too,

531
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: because it's it's jarring. I guess it's probably why it

532
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 2: creates tension. And Scorsese famously used it in Good Fellow.

533
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 2: Oh yes, at the end when Henry Hill is like,

534
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 2: like trying to sell some guns to Nero. Yeah, he's

535
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 2: to the gills, right, and he's like trying to sell

536
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 2: some guns to NERO, but they don't fit the silencers,

537
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 2: and like he's the helicopters following them. He's got the

538
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: sauce going, and all this stuff is being represented and

539
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 2: compressed in a very short amount of time by the

540
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: use of jump cuts.

541
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, very effective, and for budding filmmakers it's a great

542
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: way to hide mistakes of things you may not have

543
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: gotten that you thought you got. Jump cutting is a

544
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 1: really easy way to just sort of, yeah, to hide

545
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: your errors. Yeah, I did it a lot. In other words,

546
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: when I was making those.

547
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: Shorts, I I was I realized that in my head

548
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 2: I was referencing the shot in Soul Taker. You know,

549
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 2: have you ever seen that mystery signs three thousand with

550
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: uh uh? It's his last name is Estevez is Martin

551
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 2: Sheen's brother and he is the soul taker and he's

552
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: next to this guy who's a soul taker.

553
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 3: You just have to see this.

554
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: But anyway, they're they're walking down the road in this

555
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 2: jump cut, like has this progression of them. It's so unnecessary,

556
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 2: but it's like a great use of jump cut. You

557
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 2: could tell the director was like, I can't wait to

558
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: use a jump cut, and this is what she did.

559
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: She used it on.

560
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 3: But go watch the MSc three K it's a good one. Man.

561
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 3: Did you see every single one of those episodes?

562
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: No, it's still I still run across the ones that

563
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: I haven't seen.

564
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, nice, hey in then shout out to Bill Corbett,

565
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: who I know is a listener.

566
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah he is, isn't he?

567
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's going to hear this one,

568
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: but the great Bill Corbett, so taker. Next, we're gonna

569
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: move on.

570
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 3: To Frederico Fellini's Eight and a half. Have you ever

571
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 3: seen this one? No?

572
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 2: I haven't. Now I understand why it's called that though.

573
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

574
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: It was one of the first, although not the first,

575
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: movies about movie making and starring the great Marcelo Masteriania

576
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: Masi from ladulcea vita a muse of Fellini's over the

577
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: years too, And this one, this one really kicked off

578
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: the surrealist filmmaking and sort of saying you can play

579
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: around and shoot a dream sequence where the guy's in

580
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: traffic and then he leaves his car and floats up

581
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 1: in the air and is you know, being pulled down

582
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: to the ground on the beach from a rope tight

583
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 1: around his ankle, just like go nuts.

584
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And successive filmmakers did go nuts, like Gondry did

585
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 2: Eternal Center of the Spotless Mind.

586
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he's hugely influenced.

587
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: Darren Aronofsky did some weird stuff here or.

588
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 3: There, yeah, David Lynch and Terry Gilliam of course. Yeah.

589
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 2: Just basically surrealism is what I'm taking Fellini introduced into.

590
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 3: This, yeah, for real.

591
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: And besides the surrealism, that opening sequence of Eight and

592
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: a Half where the director, he's the director in the movie,

593
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: Guido is.

594
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 3: Stuck in traffic.

595
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: It's really claustrophobic feeling, and that's why he floats.

596
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 3: Away and escapes, you know that that.

597
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: Traffic jam, But that was directly mimicked in like Rams

598
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: Everybody Hurts video. Oh yeah, and the beginning of the

599
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: movie Falling Down. Do you remember that huh that started

600
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: with the traffic jam. Yeah, Michael Douglass just left. He

601
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: doesn't float, he gets like an oozy.

602
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 3: I saw that again the other day. Most of it

603
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 3: it's weird.

604
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: It alternately felt way ahead of its time and also

605
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: very dated because the stuff that Michael Douglas is doing

606
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: felt way ahead of its time.

607
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 3: But then there was I just forgot about that whole

608
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 3: weird subplots with Robert Duvall retiring and he had this

609
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 3: wife that was hinpecking them, and like this retirement party

610
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: they were trying to throw them. I forget about that too.

611
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just so unnecessary. It felt really weird

612
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: and out of place. The other day when I was watching.

613
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 2: It, there like a jump cut montage where he's putting

614
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: on his watch, his gold retirement watch.

615
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: No, but then too, the Barbara hershey know, is in

616
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: venice at home with the daughter and he spends a

617
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: whole day coming there to grab them basically, and the

618
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: whole time she just keeps calling the cops.

619
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 3: Like the no, he's coming and now he's coming.

620
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: And I was watching the other day, I was like

621
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: freaking leave. Oh yeah, what are you doing there?

622
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a movie character thing.

623
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 3: Ah.

624
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: You know that's just bad writing, bad directing. When you

625
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: just walk right past the ability to leave. You missed

626
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: a huge step.

627
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 3: Where were we falling down?

628
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: Yeah?

629
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 3: I think that pretty much sums up eight and a half.

630
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 2: I think so too. Falling down boom, so chuck. We

631
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: got a little more left, we got more films. Is

632
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: this making you want to watch films?

633
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 3: Yeah? Me too.

634
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: I feel like eating ice cream, watching a film and

635
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: scratching from poison ivy lately.

636
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and burning this office down. You know, if that.

637
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: Happens now, suspicion's gonna fall on you for saying that.

638
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 3: That's all right, we'll be right back after that.

639
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: All right, So we're back with our awesome jingles, which,

640
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: by the way, we have to thank John Began, John

641
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: begin Begin. He even emailed with the pronunciation of his name.

642
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: But he the original guy who did our jingle, the

643
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: first jingle ever, Rusty Mattias or Matthias Man, I'm not

644
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 2: good with the pronunciation. Uh well, anyway, Rusty who's banned

645
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 2: the sheep Dogs are on tour right now. Just because

646
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: his work was so original, we contacted him and said, Hey,

647
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 2: we got this other guy who's done like covers of

648
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 2: your work.

649
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 3: Can we use these. It's like totally mash it up.

650
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and John's been making awesome like versions of it

651
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: ever since.

652
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. They're both great and talented.

653
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: Thanks to you both.

654
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 3: And go check out I think that what you say.

655
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 3: They're on tour right, yeah, the sheep Dogs. Yeah, go

656
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 3: check out the Sheep Dogs. Yeah, and in town near you. Yeah.

657
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 3: All right, let's finish with these two in reverse order.

658
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 2: Okay, Toy Story was a big one, hugely innovative, huge,

659
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: and again it's one of those things where now almost

660
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: everything about it seems pedestrian.

661
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 3: Su or what it did.

662
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, see, it's still a great movie, I'm sure, but

663
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 2: the innovations that it undertook are just seemed pedestrian. But

664
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: at the time it was totally groundbreaking.

665
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, game changer.

666
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: It was the first, the first CGI movie, all CGI

667
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: movie ever. Yeah, that was enormous.

668
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and I remember at the time seeing it

669
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: and just being like, Wow, this is the future of

670
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: animated films.

671
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: What's the best all CGI animated film? Seemed?

672
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: Visually, Uh, well, I haven't seen a lot of them.

673
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: These days because Emily doesn't like those, So I probably

674
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't be the best person to ask Holly from uh stuff.

675
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 3: Or soyas in history class. She'd probably be the one to.

676
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: Ask for my money. Have you seen The Adventures of Tintin?

677
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, that was amazing, mind blowing. Yeah. I saw

678
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 3: that on your recommendation and really really liked it. Yeah.

679
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: The story was great, the action was great, the characters

680
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 2: were great. But the CGI, the computer animation, is I

681
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: think possibly the best ever done.

682
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's a bit of a different style than say,

683
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: like UP or The Incredibles. It's not nearly as cartoons.

684
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: It's like the I think it's the motion capture. Yeah,

685
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: I think that's what they did for that.

686
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, with UP it would strictly be totally just animation, right.

687
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean they're both animation, right. But yeah, man, Tintin,

688
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: that was really good.

689
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: It was good.

690
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 3: I was surprised how much I liked that.

691
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 2: But UP was good too, and Toy Story was good too.

692
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: But all of these things came as a result of

693
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: the ground that Toy Story.

694
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: Broke absolutely in nineteen ninety five, Like you said, what

695
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: seems like a common thing today I mean, you don't

696
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: see cell animation anymore.

697
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 3: It's almost I know, I kind.

698
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 2: Of miss it.

699
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 3: I totally miss it.

700
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: Well, like the new Mickey Mouse is all weird and

701
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 2: CG like stuff from our generation should have just been discontinued. Yeah,

702
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 2: and then you just come up with all new stuff

703
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: that's CGI Starwberry Shortcake not supposed to be CGI. It

704
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: just all looks weird now.

705
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish there would have people would have done

706
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 3: the little bit of both still, because I think sell animation,

707
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 3: Like I think The Iron Giant came out after Toy

708
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 3: Story and they did sell animation. Yeah, and that was great. Yeah,

709
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 3: great movie.

710
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 2: I haven't seen that.

711
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: Oh, it's really good. You'd like it.

712
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: Like it was a movie for grown ups, and Toy

713
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: Story sort of laid the way for that because it

714
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 1: was one of the first movies, I guess, cartoony kids

715
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: movies to really have a lot of dialogue that flew

716
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: over kids heads that adults.

717
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 3: Got a little nod in a wink.

718
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: What Toy Story.

719
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, not like dirty humor, but it's not like Fittz

720
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: the Cat No no no, but a little entendre here

721
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: and there that adults might appreciate. The kids won't understand, right,

722
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 1: those are the best jokes.

723
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 3: Right.

724
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: And now we have you know, best Animated Feature in

725
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: the Oscars, which definitely came straight out of the original

726
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 1: Toy Story because movies started being considered before they created

727
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: its own category up and Toy Story three were actually

728
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: nominated for regular Best Picture. Yeah, and I think everyone's like, oh,

729
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: we need to get them in their own category because

730
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 1: you can't have an animated movie when best Picture it came.

731
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: Well, up would have come after the Best Animated Picture

732
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 2: category came out. Oh really, so that kind of ghost

733
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: as a testament to just how amazing that movie is.

734
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, those that it was still for Best Picture. Oh,

735
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:51,919
Speaker 3: it was both.

736
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,240
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was up for it probably

737
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 2: was up for Best Animated as well, but it was

738
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 2: definitely also up for Best Picture while there was an

739
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 2: animated cat category.

740
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. I never considered that. Bam, that was a good movie. Yeah,

741
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 3: it was sweet. So I got nothing else on Toy Story.

742
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: Well then what about the last one?

743
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, two thousand and one in Space Odyssey. Man, quite

744
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 3: a film.

745
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: You sent this essay on Criterion I think Criterion dot com,

746
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 2: but you know, the Criterion collection. Yeah, it was written,

747
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: I guess in nineteen eighty eight, even though it says

748
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: posted in nineteen eighty eight. It's like there wasn't an

749
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 2: internet to post it on in nineteen eighty eight.

750
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 3: Maybe it means posted like in the mail. Maybe.

751
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:41,240
Speaker 2: But I realized, like I can read film essays about

752
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 2: Stanley Kubrick's work all day long. Yeah, me too, Like

753
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 2: I love that documentary Room two two seven. It was

754
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: two three seven, two four six seven, you know, the

755
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: one about the shining conspiracy theory.

756
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, the number of the room is amazing. I can't remember, though.

757
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 2: I read a bunch of articles is I think two

758
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 2: thirty seven. I read a bunch of articles around the

759
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 2: release of that documentary, which we're basically like film essays

760
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: on the Shining. I read this one amazing one from

761
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 2: several years ago about Eyes Wide Shut, about how it's

762
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: like a masterpiece of sociology. I love that movie theology.

763
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 3: A lot of people hate that movie.

764
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then now this like two thousand and one.

765
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's tons out there to consume, but I

766
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 2: can just read that stuff all day long because that

767
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 2: guy was so just amazingly detailed as a director.

768
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.

769
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: I can read more about his work critical essays on

770
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: his work than any other director.

771
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 3: Right, it's just unbelievable. It's almost like it's its own genre.

772
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 3: It is, you know, Kubrickian. Yeah, just got a word

773
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 3: name after it, and well it should so.

774
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: Two thousand and one A Space Odyssey nineteen sixty eight

775
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: blue minds back then, blows minds today one for it's

776
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: just the amazing look in the technical achievement eight is

777
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: really well. I mean, if you see a movie from

778
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight about outer space, it still looks like

779
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 1: the future. Yeah, he don't expect it to hold up well,

780
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: but it totally does. So much so that a lot

781
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: of the you know, George Lucas and Ridley Scott were

782
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: just like, it's done right, Like we might as well

783
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: give up.

784
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

785
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 2: George Lucas when Star Wars came out said Star Wars

786
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 2: is technically comparable, but for my money, two thousand and

787
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 2: one is by far the better movie.

788
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone was sort of intimidated, I think by how

789
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: talented Kubrick was.

790
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 3: Well.

791
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: Plus also you have to take into account that he

792
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 2: made this movie at a time when other sci fi

793
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 2: movies were.

794
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 3: Just pure schlock.

795
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so not only to make the movie in

796
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 2: this way, this visually amazing and amazing with an audio

797
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 2: soundtrack and just totally innovative, it also took like that

798
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 2: mindset is just completely going a different direction that everybody

799
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 2: else has as well.

800
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, think about Ridley Scott saying that, and

801
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: then he goes on to make Alien and Blade Runner

802
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: after that.

803
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 3: So I mean he helped Prometheus. Man.

804
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, people don't like Prometheus. I don't care.

805
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 3: It's a cool movie. No. I liked it too.

806
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, one flaw, the big flaw to me was,

807
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 2: and I'm sure it's like part of the subtext or

808
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 2: the context or one of the texts, but the engineer

809
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 2: coming back to life or coming out of hibernation after

810
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 2: however long and just immediately like inflicting violence on these

811
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 2: pe brained humans who are showing him no threat whatsoever. Yeah,

812
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 2: I just thought it was a little It wasn't explained

813
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 2: well enough, I think for my taste.

814
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think I agree with you.

815
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 2: But when I'm watching a Ridley Scott movie, I just

816
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: assume if I'm missing something, he has an explanation for it.

817
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 2: I'm just not catching it.

818
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know what you mean.

819
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: I'd like I think I read some stuff about how

820
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: it tied into the alien cannon and realize I need

821
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: to go see it again with all this knowledge that

822
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 1: I wasn't really thinking about.

823
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe i'd like it more. Yeah, but I

824
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,399
Speaker 3: haven't done that yet. So back to two thousand and one. Yeah.

825
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:19,720
Speaker 1: It was also notable for being bookended basically with thirty

826
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: minutes of silence on both ends of the movie. The

827
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: first thirty minutes or and when I say silent, I

828
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: mean no dialogue, and the last thirty minutes have no dialogue.

829
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

830
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 2: The last line comes like a full thirty minutes before

831
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 2: the end.

832
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And over the one hundred and forty six minutes

833
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: there are only forty minutes of dialogue and the whole thing.

834
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: And that's why I just when people compare something like Interstellar,

835
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: then call it Kuprickian.

836
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 3: I just want to smash.

837
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 2: Do you not like Interstellar?

838
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 3: Not really?

839
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 2: Oh, I liked it.

840
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 3: I was super letdown.

841
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: Despite McConaughey doing Waterson in the future, I still liked it.

842
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 3: I even liked him in it.

843
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: I liked a lot of the parts of it, But

844
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,919
Speaker 1: to me, it's anti Kubrickian because every ten minutes they're

845
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: explaining everything that's going on.

846
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, again, that was another thing. Just like in.

847
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: Susception, Ellen Page's entire character was written in to explain

848
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 2: what was going on every ten minutes.

849
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I feel like Interstellar was the same way.

850
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 1: It's like Christopher Nollen needs to just trust his audience

851
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: a little bit like Kubrick did and say you figure

852
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: it out or don't.

853
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I'm not.

854
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: Gonna stop every ten minutes just to explain everything.

855
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just going on. I remember if you didn't

856
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 3: get it right, here's what's going on again.

857
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 2: Well, I think if they are labeling something like Interstellar

858
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: is Kubrickian, right, one of the ways that you can

859
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 2: interpret that is that he was he rooted his two

860
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 2: thousand and one in science fact Yeah right, So like

861
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 2: the stuff that the astronauts are like dealing with and

862
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: the things that are going on and the conditions of space,

863
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: it was all factual. Whereas with Interstellar, same thing. They

864
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 2: went to really great links to do what they could

865
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 2: to make everything scientifically factual. Aside from the fact that

866
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 2: the idea that you could go into a black hole

867
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 2: and then come back out or something like that. Sure,

868
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 2: drifting in space, that's not gonna happen. But for the

869
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 2: most part, Interstellar was scientifically accurate. So maybe that's what

870
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 2: they meant when they called it Kubrickian, because you're absolutely right,

871
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 2: like they did explain a lot and went to great

872
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 2: links to explain a lot, whereas with two thousand and

873
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 2: one you just watch it the first five times like

874
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: what just happened? Yeah, and apparently Carrie Grant had that

875
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:34,479
Speaker 2: same reaction as well.

876
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 3: That was rock Hudson, Rock Hudson, that's right. Yeah, the original.

877
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: Screening that Roger Ebert was at in La Rock Hudson

878
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: just left and said, can somebody tell me what the

879
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: hell that was about?

880
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it wasn't even over yet. Yeah. Yeah.

881
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: Well, the reason it it has science fact and not

882
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,479
Speaker 1: science fiction is because Kubrick and Arthur C. Clark, who

883
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: oh yeah, it wasn't actually a book that was made

884
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: into a movie. It was a movie. Our book made

885
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: after movie, and they collaborated on both. And they went

886
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 1: to Carl Sagan of course of Cosmos and said.

887
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: He said, you're gonna make billions, And.

888
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 3: That was pretty good, was it? Yeah? That sound a

889
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 3: lot like them.

890
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: They went to Carl Sagan said, Hey, we want to

891
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: portray these extraterrestrials. Are they maybe the Star Child is

892
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: or they turned Dave into the Star Child? Are they humanoids?

893
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: What are they going to look like? And Sagan was like,

894
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: they were very unlikely to be humanoid. So Kubrick did

895
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: the smart thing and was just like, well, we just

896
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: won't show him at all, instead of making a fool

897
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: of myself like Signs and making some dumb looking out

898
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 1: o man, man, let me just not show the aliens.

899
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 3: Very smart move. Getting back to the story of two

900
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 3: thousand and one, although I.

901
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 2: Think the Village is underrated, Yeah, I can stomach that one.

902
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 3: What about Well, you like the sixth sense? Right? Everybody

903
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 3: like the sixth Sense? Sure, I guess that was it

904
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 3: for him. I loved Unbreakable.

905
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 2: Unbreakable, Yeah, that was one where like, yeah, I think

906
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 2: it was maybe even better the second time.

907
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. I still like that movie.

908
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: But then he also made that Lady in the Water

909
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: movie and the the one with Marky Mark the people

910
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: were jumping off four brothers, No, three kings?

911
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 3: Is it the one in the Elevator? No, he just

912
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 3: produced Oh I know what you're talking about, the one

913
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 3: where people like jumping off of buildings and stuff inexplicably. Yeah,

914
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 3: that I didn't even I didn't see that. You couldn't

915
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 3: get through ten minutes of that movie.

916
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: So two thousand and one Back to Good Movies was

917
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: had a three acts, three part structure, but not a

918
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: conventional three act structure that you might be used to

919
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: in movies, which is why it confounded people like Rock Hudson.

920
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 3: The first they called the movements.

921
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: The first movement was the The Dawn of Man sequenced

922
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: with the Apes with a monolith, and he has that

923
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: great part where he throws his little bone tool up

924
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: in the air and then it morphs into all lot morphs,

925
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: but it maybe is a dissolve into the spinning in

926
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 1: outer space.

927
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 3: It's called the match cut. Yeah, match cut.

928
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: And of the rotation of what we now know was

929
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: a nuclear warhead.

930
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 3: Because I read.

931
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: That little article twenty Things you Didn't Know about two

932
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: thousand and one, I didn't know those were nuclear warheads

933
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: necessarily in outer space. They made it a little more vague,

934
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: and initially it was going to be more explicit and

935
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 1: they were going to explode it in outer space, right

936
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: but he said, now it's a little too close to

937
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: the ending of strange. Yeah, so let's not do that. Yeah,

938
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: probably a good choice.

939
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, But as a result, some people have taken it

940
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 2: to mean that like it was that match cut was

941
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 2: supposed to show how far humans have come, right from

942
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 2: using a bone to murder somebody to satellites in space.

943
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 2: But if you know that the satellite is actually loaded

944
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 2: down with nuclear warheads, that match cut demonstrates how little

945
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 2: humans have changed from using a bone to murder somebody

946
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 2: to using satellites to murder somebody. The motif is still

947
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: the same, and it's murder.

948
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's going for some deep things. Oh yeah, a

949
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 3: lot of metaphor happening. Yeah.

950
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 2: I mean supposedly in every single shot, because he started

951
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 2: out as a still photographer, right, Yeah, supposedly every frame

952
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 2: of a Kubrick movie. There is nothing that isn't unintentionally

953
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 2: placed there by him. He did a lot of his

954
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 2: own set decorating.

955
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like the pencil holder on the desk in the

956
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 3: office of the guy at the Shining Hotel, right was

957
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 3: where it's supposed to be.

958
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 2: Right, and if it has like a picture of a

959
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 2: goatthead inscribed on it that means something.

960
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 3: It's not accidental.

961
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, although we'll say Room two thirty seven, which I

962
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: think may have been the point is a little bit

963
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: like these people are crazy, not like, oh man, I

964
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: just see what they're saying in all this, right, I

965
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: was just thinking these people are nuts.

966
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 2: Right, it's it was just kind of enjoyable to hear

967
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: their interpretations of.

968
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: It well, and I think it had It was a

969
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:15,720
Speaker 1: comment on obsession and fandom more so than the shining.

970
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 2: For sure, but there I thought, there are some of

971
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 2: their ideas were oh yeah, interesting totally. I said Room

972
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 2: two two seven, didn't I like going out with conspiracy Theoris.

973
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 2: It's like Mary.

974
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 3: Was in Room two two seven, like a sitcom. Yeah,

975
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 3: it was just called two two seven. Okay, yeah, gotcha,

976
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 3: remember it was Jack Kay. She'd be like Mary, Oh okay.

977
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,479
Speaker 2: That's what my impression was. What'd you think I was doing?

978
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 3: Well? I wasn't sure what she meant being a weirdo. Yeah, yeah, okay.

979
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: The second movement was, of course the How sequence, the computer,

980
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: the how uh was it?

981
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 3: The How nine thousand?

982
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:54,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, really creepy and How ended up being a lot

983
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: of people's favorite character, even though it was just a

984
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: voice the supercomputer on the Discovery ship.

985
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 3: Like, what are you doing to It's so creepy.

986
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: I had the Mad Magazine spoof of two thousand and

987
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: one when I was a kid.

988
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 3: It was great. Yeah.

989
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: And then the third movement is when Dave moves on

990
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: to the next stage of human development with these extraterrestrials

991
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 1: that you only hear, and basically it's when it comes

992
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: full circle the third movement.

993
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 2: And the third movement is the one that has almost

994
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 2: well it's really just the second movement that's has a dialogue.

995
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

996
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

997
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: Some of the alternate titles for two thousand and one

998
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: Journey Beyond the Stars, terrible Universe not bad, Yeah, okay,

999
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: Tunnel to the Stars so great.

1000
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 3: Planet Fall that sounds bad.

1001
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 2: It sounds like a James Pond movie.

1002
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: And then How the Solar System was one as a

1003
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:52,720
Speaker 1: play on how the West was won.

1004
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, which like movie geeks would find that appealing, but

1005
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: everybody else would say, that's you ruined everything.

1006
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Kubrick was this is the last thing I have.

1007
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: He was so obsessive with protecting his material that he

1008
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: allegedly I don't think allegedly, I think he did ye.

1009
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: Have all the sets and props and miniatures destroyed after

1010
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: he shot it, so they would never be reused, which

1011
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 1: is a common thing at the time.

1012
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, we're doing a space movie. Go get that,

1013
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 3: Go get that space ring from Stanley set. Yeah, let's

1014
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 3: reuse it for a planet fall.

1015
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 2: He also destroyed all of the footage that didn't make

1016
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 2: it into the original theatrical release.

1017
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, destroyed. It's gone.

1018
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they wouldn't one day after his death recut it,

1019
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: which they invariably probably would have done.

1020
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: Yep, he's a smart man.

1021
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I could. We should just do a podcast on Kubrick.

1022
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 2: Okay he was I'm down for that challenge.

1023
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 3: He'd be a dude. Yeah, one of my heroes.

1024
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1025
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,959
Speaker 3: Cinematically, you got anything else? I got nothing else.

1026
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 2: If you want to know more about movies, if you

1027
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 2: like this, and you probably also love our exploitation episode,

1028
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 2: exploitation movie episode fun one. What else have we talked

1029
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 2: about movies in Cannonball Run? Oh yeah, I had a

1030
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 2: lot to do with the movie.

1031
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. Our James Bond episode. Yeah. Yeah. We've had a

1032
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 3: few of these, and people always respond to these real like,

1033
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 3: you guys should have a spin off.

1034
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 2: Should do an all movie podcast. Sure, maybe one day.

1035
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 3: Maybe.

1036
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 2: Remember if you're looking for any of these press control

1037
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,479
Speaker 2: F or Apple F in your web browser and search

1038
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 2: that way on our podcast archive page. You can also

1039
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 2: search for this article on how stuff works by typing

1040
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 2: movies in and seeing what comes up. And since I

1041
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 2: said how stuff works, is time for a listener mail.

1042
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:45,919
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call this Mike A. DuPont really clear something

1043
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 2: up for us on scientific method. Okay, hey guys, it

1044
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 2: was a great Well, actually, he doesn't say it was great.

1045
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 3: I think I just made that up.

1046
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: Hey guys, your Scientific Method podcast has a consistent misuse

1047
00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: of what a scientific law is in relation to the

1048
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 1: working of the scientific method. It appears that you believe

1049
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: that a law e g. Newton's law of gravity is

1050
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: held in higher esteem than theory, that eventually a theory

1051
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: matures into a law. I think I probably did think

1052
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: that because of politics, right, you know, Bill becomes a

1053
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: law right exactly, he says, when in fact, theory is

1054
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:20,439
Speaker 1: considerably more robust than a law.

1055
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 3: A law is a mathematical model.

1056
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: That describes observed behavior, does not answer the why. Theory

1057
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: does answer why something happens.

1058
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 3: Did we not say that.

1059
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 2: I thought we did well, Like I knew that. I

1060
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 2: remember finding that out from the research. I just can't

1061
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 2: believe it didn't come out of my mouth.

1062
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 1: He claims, we did not, And I feel like I'm

1063
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 1: learning this so I definitely did not.

1064
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 3: Okay, go ahead, but you may have. For example, Newton's law.

1065
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: Of gravitational attraction describes the action of two bodies that

1066
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: can be used for pretty much everything. It is perfect

1067
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: for describing what happens, but it cannot tell you why

1068
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: the two items are attracted or drilled down to the

1069
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: underlying mechanism.

1070
00:51:58,239 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, a law is like much more succinct.

1071
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 2: It just is what it is.

1072
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 1: Nor is the law even universal, and could not be

1073
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: used to explain the Parahelian procession of Mercury's orbit burn.

1074
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: In comparison, Einstein's theory of general relativity was eventually used

1075
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: to solve the Mercury issue.

1076
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the mercury issue.

1077
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: And the standard model, along with the recent discovery the

1078
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: Higgs posts on my stern can answer the why do

1079
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: these two masses attracted to each other?

1080
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 2: A question?

1081
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 3: I think what you mean is why are these two

1082
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 3: masses attracted to one another? Mike, it's pretty teleological theory

1083
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 3: is considerably more developed and richer than a scientific law,

1084
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 3: which is more of a tool that is applicable to

1085
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 3: a wide range of applications. Keep up the good work

1086
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 3: that is, Mike DuPont.

1087
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 2: Thanks Mike, thanks for that of the Valley Forge. DuPonts,

1088
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 2: I think, so, huh have you seen fox Catching?

1089
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,760
Speaker 3: Oh? No, I've heard it's good. Is it good? No? Really,

1090
00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 3: I don't think so.

1091
00:52:58,600 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 2: No.

1092
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 3: I hear it's kind of slow, it's beyond slow. Really?

1093
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I can understand why the academy loved it,

1094
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 2: or sure a lot of people. I'm sure, do you

1095
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 2: like it?

1096
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 3: I was not a fan of.

1097
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: Fo I think people generally seeing like a turn by

1098
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 1: an actor like Steve Girl doing something really different.

1099
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 3: They're knocked out by that. No, I still can't believe

1100
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 3: he didn't like Birdman. No spoiler alert for people who

1101
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 3: have not seen Birdman. The following conversation is full of spoilers.

1102
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 2: Yes, what didn't you like about it?

1103
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 3: So?

1104
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 2: I thought I thought Michael Keene was good?

1105
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 3: Okay?

1106
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 2: Who plays his daughter Emily Blunt?

1107
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 3: Is that? Who that is? Emma Stone?

1108
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 2: Emma Stone? Excellent? Okay? Ed Norton even pretty good.

1109
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 3: Okay, so the acting was fine.

1110
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 2: Who is Naomi Watson was in it?

1111
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1112
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 2: She did great? Okay, so yes, the acting. The acting

1113
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,760
Speaker 2: was fine. Sure that the acting was fine. I thought

1114
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 2: the photography was amazing.

1115
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, the whole seemingly one take thing kind of knocked

1116
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 3: you out.

1117
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 2: Probably I didn't even pick up on that, but yes

1118
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 2: it did. It was more the uh, the for me,

1119
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:16,320
Speaker 2: the juxtaposition of the story, which was pretty boring and

1120
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 2: realistic in everyday life, even though it was about a

1121
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,240
Speaker 2: Broadway production, it was still about the everyday life of it, sure,

1122
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 2: against the surrealism that's like threaded and embedded in throughout

1123
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 2: the whole movie. I didn't like that. Okay, it was

1124
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 2: like choose one or the other men?

1125
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 3: Gotcha? It irked me.

1126
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 2: And uh and then just so that one part with

1127
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 2: the critic where Michael Keaton tells off the critic. I

1128
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 2: thought Michael Keaton did a wonderful job, But just the

1129
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 2: whole point that it was in there of like the director,

1130
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 2: you know, using Michael Keaton's character to tell off all

1131
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 2: the critics he's ever wanted to tell off in his movie. Yeah,

1132
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 2: I just thought it was pretentious and I thought it

1133
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 2: was kind of clumsy in that sense too, and it

1134
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 2: was enough that it attainted it.

1135
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then the ending. I did not like the

1136
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 3: ending at all, Yeah, at all. That'll ruin a good movie.

1137
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 2: Because it was it completely went contrary to all the

1138
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 2: other stuff that he went out of his way to

1139
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 2: point out was fake or fraudulent or not real. And

1140
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:22,439
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden it is what Yeah, no

1141
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 2: choose one or the other. The director refused to make

1142
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 2: very important decisions, and I think that that ruined the movie.

1143
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 3: That is a very well thought out the criticism, I think,

1144
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 3: thank you, thank you very much. Sure man, that was

1145
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 3: the end of listener mail even, wasn't it. Yeah?

1146
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: Because now I'm not like, she's Jush is weird? He

1147
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: didn't like Birdman. Now I'm like, just didn't like Birdman.

1148
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 1: He has good reasons.

1149
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you.

1150
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 3: I like justifying my opinion, don't we all?

1151
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,439
Speaker 2: So if you want to get in touch with Chuck

1152
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 2: and I or Jerry, who I apparently just spoiled Birdman for,

1153
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 2: you can contact us via Twitter, s y s K podcast.

1154
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 2: You can join us on Facebook dot com slash stuff

1155
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 2: you should know. You can send us an email, this

1156
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,240
Speaker 2: stuff podcast at how stuffworks dot com, and as always,

1157
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 2: joined us at our home on the web, Stuff you

1158
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:16,240
Speaker 2: Should Know dot com.

1159
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,919
Speaker 3: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit

1160
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 3: HowStuffWorks dot com.