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Speaker 1: The missing Connecticut mom of five Jennifer Dulos body has

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Speaker 1: never been found. What are the grandparents supposed to tell

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Speaker 1: her children when they ask where's Mommy? The case ain't

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Speaker 1: over yet. In the last hours a bombshell. When I

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Speaker 1: say bombshell, I mean bombshell is husband Fotus Dulos, lawyer,

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Speaker 1: his alleged partner in crime, set to testify against his mistress.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. It was a Friday morning

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Speaker 1: in late May, almost the end of the academic year,

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Speaker 1: when Jennifer Dulos dropped off her five children for school

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Speaker 1: surveyor let's camera show. She returned to her rented home

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Speaker 1: around eight o'clock, then vanished, we love you and we

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Speaker 1: are doing everything we can to bring you home. Hours later,

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Speaker 1: worried friends called the police after she missed several appointments.

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Speaker 1: Her disappearance sparked an intense search, stretching across state lines,

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Speaker 1: making headlines in the national news. New development in the

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Speaker 1: case of that missing mother of five overnight her a

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Speaker 1: strange husband speaking in a new interview. Her estranged husband

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Speaker 1: and his live in girlfriend appearing in karnt Coops immediately

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Speaker 1: start with the timeline and trying to figure out if

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Speaker 1: she left on her own, but then they discover her

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Speaker 1: SUV seemingly abandoned. Drones, canines and a helicopter scoured the area.

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Speaker 1: Her vehicle found near a wooden park. That's how it

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Speaker 1: all started. Yes, that's how it all started. When Jennifer

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Speaker 1: Dulos goes missing. And this is what we're learning today.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at NBC Connecticut w

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Speaker 1: VI our cut two. According to schoen Horne, in the

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Speaker 1: ninety minute video, which has not been released publicly, Mlwinney

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Speaker 1: says that the day before Jennifer Dulos was reported missing,

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Speaker 1: he was at Photosdulos's Farmington home at for Jefferson Crossing.

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Speaker 1: He told this to state police Allegedly, according to Schoenhorne,

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Speaker 1: it was there that schoen Horn says Mulwinne alleges Dulos

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Speaker 1: and Traconis asked him to give them a fake alibi

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Speaker 1: for the next day when they plan to get rid

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Speaker 1: of Dulos as a strange wife Jennifer back in May

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Speaker 1: of twenty nineteen. Sean Horn also says that the next night,

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Speaker 1: Mwennie claims Dulos called him to tell him the deed

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Speaker 1: was done. Traconis's attorney says he's not surprised Mlwinnie would

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Speaker 1: try to implicate his client, and he doesn't believe the

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Speaker 1: state plans I'm moving forward with its case against him,

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Speaker 1: questioning Mwennie's credibility and motive. Schoenhorn has asked prosecutors to

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Speaker 1: release all versions of Mulwinne's statement, along with video surveillance

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Speaker 1: that shows how long he was with state police before

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Speaker 1: and after they recorded that interview, documentation regarding the decision

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Speaker 1: not to give him a polygraph task, and any communication

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Speaker 1: that took place about his possible cooperation. Again, our friends

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Speaker 1: at NBC Connecticut w v I with me and All

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Speaker 1: Star Panel to break it down and put it back

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Speaker 1: together again. What does it mean. I've never heard of

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Speaker 1: a defense attorney testifying against their own client, even when

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Speaker 1: that client has been sitting in jail pulling at straws

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Speaker 1: and claims their trial lawyer was ineffective. A lot of

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Speaker 1: times you'll see the trial lawyer take the stand and say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was ineffective, anything to help their client get a reversal.

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Speaker 1: What's going on in the case of Michelle Charconis. Chraconis

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Speaker 1: the lover of Potus Dulos at the time his wife

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Speaker 1: Jennifer goes missing. Joining me. Randy Kessler, high profile lawyer

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Speaker 1: joining me out of Atlanta Emory Law School, professor, past

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Speaker 1: chair of the ABA Family Law Section, author of Divorce

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Speaker 1: Protect Yourself, Off, your kids, and your future, and you

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Speaker 1: can find them at kas family Law dot com. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that was a mouthful and it's all true. Joining me,

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Speaker 1: also from Atlanta. Renowned psychiatrist doctor Angela Arnold. You can

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Speaker 1: find her at Angela Arnold, MD dot com. Professor Forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,

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Speaker 1: starred a brand new hit series on the True Crime Network,

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Speaker 1: Poisonous lead aisons Joseph Scott Morgan. But first to special

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Speaker 1: guests joining us. Fox News senior correspondent, host of Murder

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Speaker 1: in Connecticut, the Jennifer Dulo story on Fox Nation, Laura ingletv.

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Speaker 1: Laura Ingle is joining me right now, Laura, does it

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Speaker 1: never end? First this twist, then that twist? Now this

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Speaker 1: what's happening? Iinancy, Well, you know all of this coming

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Speaker 1: around what is called a grim anniversary. Of course, we

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Speaker 1: have made the mark as we were doing our reporting

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Speaker 1: on January twenty ninth, That was the day that Fotus

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Speaker 1: Duellos had tried to take his life at his home.

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Speaker 1: He was supposed to be in court that day, so

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Speaker 1: that was just a year ago, and as we were

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Speaker 1: getting ready to mark that anniversary in check in the case,

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Speaker 1: You're right, a lot of activity has been happening with

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Speaker 1: the courts with these other two suspects in the case.

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Speaker 1: And we were able to speak to John Schoenhorn for

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Speaker 1: over an hour. John Schoenhorn is the attorney for Michelle Traconis,

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Speaker 1: look taking a look back at where we are with

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Speaker 1: this case and taking a look forward, and he of

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Speaker 1: course still maintains that Michelle Traconis Fotus's girlfriend at the

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Speaker 1: time of Jennifer Duelis's disappearance, maintains their innocence, but what

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Speaker 1: he told us in that interview. And then we saw

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Speaker 1: some new video just released this week from mister Schoenhorn

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Speaker 1: in court trying to get the charges dismissed. Some interrogation

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Speaker 1: video that happened shortly after Jennifer Duelos went missing, of

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Speaker 1: what he calls state investigators badgering his client, giving her

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Speaker 1: what he calls false information to get her to crack

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Speaker 1: and give information that he claims she simply does not

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Speaker 1: have lawn Angel. For those of us that I mean

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Speaker 1: following the case from beginning, we know all the names.

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Speaker 1: But for people that are just learning about Jennifer Dulos,

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Speaker 1: that missing Connecticut mom of five. She drops her children

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Speaker 1: off to school, eight am in the morning, she comes

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Speaker 1: back home, she goes. You see her heading into her home,

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Speaker 1: and then she's never seen alive again. Blood has been

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Speaker 1: found all over the home, including her blood and her

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Speaker 1: husband's blood. And then it seems like the mistress, Michelle

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Speaker 1: Traconis was along for the ride. Well, there's no such

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Speaker 1: thing as along for the ride under the law. Straight

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Speaker 1: out to you, Randy Kesser, Atlanta trial lawyer. If she

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Speaker 1: was in the car and she helped fotus due, I

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Speaker 1: was get rid of evidence the way that video seems

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Speaker 1: to purport, she's in and up to her eyeballs, she is.

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Speaker 1: But you know it's this lord's aggressive and I like

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Speaker 1: his style, and I like that he's putting it all

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Speaker 1: out there. You take every shot you can to get

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Speaker 1: your client off. I mean, he's exposing you know what

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Speaker 1: you're sounding. You sound like you're talking at um um

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Speaker 1: one of those singing competitions or the masked dancer or

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Speaker 1: dancing with the stars. Put it all out there, show

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Speaker 1: him what you've got. What are you talking about. This

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Speaker 1: is a murder case. Put it all out there. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's asked the just to dismiss the charges.

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Speaker 1: He's going to ask the judge in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the trial to dismiss his client. He's gonna he's trying

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Speaker 1: to prep the judge, and he's showing you this interview tactic.

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Speaker 1: You know, where would you where would you bury a body? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a trick question. If she says the right answer

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Speaker 1: that Ahashi knew it, because she did. And if she

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Speaker 1: doesn't cooperate, well she's not cooperative. I mean he's trying

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Speaker 1: to prejudice the trier of factor. She's the judge and

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Speaker 1: the jury. So anyway ses us knows, cass let me

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Speaker 1: understand this with me, high profile defense attorney, Mandy Caster.

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Speaker 1: You're saying he is trying to prejudice who will make

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Speaker 1: the decision. Who's he lay, Well, the lawyers, the prosecutor, No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no no no, the defense lawyer. He's putting it out

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Speaker 1: there saying look at these videos, look at this interview

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Speaker 1: of her. They was harassing her. She's who's day, Who's

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Speaker 1: harassing her? The investigator? Okay, right, okay, Now I see

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Speaker 1: where you're going, Mandy Kester, Jimmy and I went to

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Speaker 1: wade through all that defense. Mumbo jumbo, you're now traming

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Speaker 1: the police. Investigators are confusing the mistress. Okay, with trick

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Speaker 1: questions climb stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking

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Speaker 1: about not only the disappearance and what I purport to

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Speaker 1: be the death of a missing mom of five, Jennifer

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Speaker 1: Dulos out of Connecticut, but now legal shananigans. Now, if

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Speaker 1: you got led down the garden lane by Randy Kessler,

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Speaker 1: he was trying to take me Jackie Joy the whole

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Speaker 1: pane along with him. What he's saying, Laura Ingland'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure is that the prosecutors, the investigators, the detectives are

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Speaker 1: trying to trick the lover, the girlfriend Michelle Triconis into

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Speaker 1: saying where Jennifer dulos body has been hidden. Now, let's correct, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Laura Ingles, refresh recollections. Isn't it true? Laura, Laura joined

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Speaker 1: me Fox and New senior correspondent, host of Murdering Connecticut

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Speaker 1: the Jennifer Dulo's story on Fox Nation that there is

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Speaker 1: video of potus duelos, the husband, the cheating husband, going

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Speaker 1: all over town, throwing out bloody clothes, these sponges, all

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Speaker 1: sorts of blood spattered evidence. It's Jennifer's blood on the evidence.

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Speaker 1: And in the car is none other than michel Ter

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Speaker 1: Konis on video right, that is on video. You don't

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Speaker 1: see her getting out on these surveillance videos. And it's

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Speaker 1: really interesting that he chose to go to Albany, which

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Speaker 1: is absolutely wired. There's a camera on every street corner

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Speaker 1: and it seems to be in every store, every alley

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Speaker 1: showing him getting out of the car and removing these bags. Now,

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Speaker 1: remember the outside of the bags contains Photostulus's DNA fingerprints,

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Speaker 1: of course, and they also say that they found a

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Speaker 1: couple of trace pieces of DNA of michel tercons on

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Speaker 1: the outside of those bags. And John Schoenhorn, her attorney,

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Speaker 1: told us last week that they police misrepresented the evidence.

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Speaker 1: It was only partial DNA, there weren't full fingerprints, he says.

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Speaker 1: But here's what's really interesting about our conversation with John Schoenhern,

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Speaker 1: the attorney for Michelle Traconas. Now he told us that

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Speaker 1: the police in these interviews and your other guests brought

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Speaker 1: up you know, the police asked her where would you

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Speaker 1: get rid of a body? That's on the tape. He

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Speaker 1: told us for the first time that in those interviews,

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Speaker 1: the state police told her in graphic term that Fota

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Speaker 1: Stulos murdered his wife, but then told Michelle Traconas falsely

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Speaker 1: that the garbage bags disposed of on Albany Avenue, which

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Speaker 1: is in Hartford, are filled with body parts. He says

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Speaker 1: that caused my client Michelle to freak out during interrogation,

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Speaker 1: get hysterical, crying, and he claims that the state police

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Speaker 1: are repeatedly lying to her in order to get her

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Speaker 1: to tell them what she knew. She said at least

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Speaker 1: a dozen times in that tape. He counted nineteen times

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Speaker 1: on the interrogation recordings that she says, I don't know anything.

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Speaker 1: I would tell you if I knew. She claims that

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Speaker 1: she was being badgered, that the police techniques that were

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Speaker 1: being used were illegal, that they were trying to just

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Speaker 1: work her over and get her all worked up. He said,

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Speaker 1: there's never been evidence of body parts, and to his point,

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Speaker 1: there have not been body parts sound. But he claims

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Speaker 1: that the police told her that to get her worked

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Speaker 1: up so that she would confess to something. He claims

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Speaker 1: she doesn't know. I got three questions for you, Laura

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Speaker 1: Ingle Fox, New Senior correspondent, Again, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. You know this like the back of your hand, Laura,

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Speaker 1: two conflicting things I heard. This is my first question.

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Speaker 1: There are I believe you said there is partial DNA

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Speaker 1: from Michel Taconis on the outside of the trash bags

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Speaker 1: containing Jennifer Dulo's bloody clothes. Is that right? That's right? Now?

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Speaker 1: Then how does partial DNA fit with not a full fingerprint?

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Speaker 1: Because typically we say DNA and a partial print. Where

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Speaker 1: are they getting partial DNA because in the world we

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Speaker 1: live in now, there's really no such thing as partial DNA.

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Speaker 1: There may be compromise DNA, there may be just mitochondrial DNA,

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Speaker 1: But I've never heard the phrase partial DNA. Did they

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Speaker 1: mean a partial fingerprint? You know? Look, it's John Schoenhorne's

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Speaker 1: way of saying, there are there's clues of DNA of

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Speaker 1: Michel Draconis. But he's just trying to minimize. What they

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Speaker 1: are got is take very different than what state investigator. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure the defense lawyer's interpretation is very different from

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Speaker 1: the crime lab scientist interpretation. And the other thing is

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Speaker 1: you said when the lover, Michel Taconis is being interrogated,

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Speaker 1: it's all on tape that you can hear everythink. Do

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Speaker 1: you hear on the tape where the investigator said body parts?

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Speaker 1: That part has not been released. That was something that

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Speaker 1: John Schoenhorne told us for the first time, and he

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Speaker 1: even said, I'm looking at the transp right now of

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Speaker 1: our interview. He said, I have never told anybody this before.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be coming out because we're going

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Speaker 1: to finally get her to our chance to release these

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Speaker 1: interrogation tips. And we've got a little taste of it

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Speaker 1: this week from this hearing where she is crying and

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Speaker 1: they're saying, just tell us what you know, and she

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Speaker 1: just keeps saying, I probablieve I would be here at angle.

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Speaker 1: You think I care she's crying? What do you think

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Doolos's children and her mother and father are doing

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Speaker 1: right now. They're crying. So she's crying. She's been sleeping

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Speaker 1: with a married man that kills his wife, and she

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Speaker 1: goes with him to dispose of her bloody clothes and

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Speaker 1: bloody sponges and bloody rags, very bloody scene from there

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Speaker 1: to Albany and back. I don't feel sorry for her.

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Speaker 1: She can cry a river for all I care. But

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Speaker 1: if I'm hearing from her defense attorney that during this investigation,

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Speaker 1: the cops lean over and said there are body parts.

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Speaker 1: I'm not buying that unless I can hear it on

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Speaker 1: the audio like I hear everything else, I think that's

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Speaker 1: just something they concocted. Well, we're gonna have to wait

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Speaker 1: for that. That's going to be one of the more

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Speaker 1: interesting parts of the trial, right when we get all

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Speaker 1: of that Eric right video that will be played and hey,

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Speaker 1: it may be there, Randy Kessler, But aside from your

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Speaker 1: own steadfast belief that this is wrong, why don't you

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Speaker 1: explain to the panel what the US Supreme Court says

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Speaker 1: about tricking a confession. Oh, look, it's got to be

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Speaker 1: a good tea. You know they have something, did you?

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Speaker 1: Did you just say good faith or good taste? Good

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Speaker 1: taste would be nice, But I'm not giving them, Randy,

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Speaker 1: Just tell me what the Supreme said, okay, just tell

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Speaker 1: me the ruling. You cannot outlight lie. You can tell

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Speaker 1: somebody anything you think to be true. That trickery is

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Speaker 1: okay to get a confession, beating someone, promising them things

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Speaker 1: that are not gonna happen, like a plea deal. They

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Speaker 1: can't promise. Um coercing them, that's not Okayking them is

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Speaker 1: totally okay, Randy. And if you and if you're okay

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Speaker 1: that and that's the system we want. There's a level

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Speaker 1: to trickery, okay. I mean you cannot say I have

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Speaker 1: this evidence right here that shows you did this, this, this,

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Speaker 1: and this. I mean, that's that's got That's so you

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Speaker 1: think the Supreme Court said, I've got the sevidence that

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Speaker 1: shows this, this, and this. That's not what the Supreme said.

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Speaker 1: They said, you can trick to get a confession. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well there's you know, we are a system of justice.

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Speaker 1: Ship did you say yes? Did you say yes? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So look Nanswy you Gray, sometimes you're right. I think

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Speaker 1: he's saying yes. Okay. So you know they can't trick her.

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Speaker 1: They can trick her, they can't beat her, they can't

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Speaker 1: torture her into confession. But they can totally trick her.

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Speaker 1: So if that's what jump in, whoever's jumping I think

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Speaker 1: is Joe Scott. I know, I know you couldn't hold out.

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Speaker 1: You know this, it's totally not your area of expertise,

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Speaker 1: jump in, But no, it kind of is in this sense.

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Speaker 1: Let me tell you what your connis needs to be worried.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back to what you said about the partial DNA.

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Speaker 1: There is such thing as partial DNA. And you know

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Speaker 1: how they collected this. What they're referring to is that

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Speaker 1: I suspect this is touch DNA. Now we can leave

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Speaker 1: behind partial DNA. And let me explain this to you.

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Speaker 1: When throughout the day, throughout our normal day of life,

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Speaker 1: we sleft thousands and thousands and thousands of skin cells

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Speaker 1: every day, Okay, Jurgen's has made a fortune off of

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Speaker 1: hand cream. Okay, over the years, we lose dead skin cells. Well,

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons they're talking about partial is that

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Speaker 1: when that skin cell falls away, when it falls away,

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Speaker 1: there is a partial strand of DNA in there. That's

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Speaker 1: what they're saying here. I can almost guarantee it. And

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Speaker 1: what you have to do is take that very fragile

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Speaker 1: are you trying me when they say when the defense

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Speaker 1: lawyer said partial DNA, he's talking about epiphilial DNA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, Okay.

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Speaker 1: I stand Karaga, Randy Kessler. I'm not a sore loser.

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Speaker 1: I've been schooled by Joe Scott Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the missing mom of five. Think about

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Speaker 1: that right there, missing mom of five. Jennifer Duelos drops

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Speaker 1: the children at school, comes back home. She's never seen again.

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Speaker 1: The husband and Laura angel I need your friend jump in.

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Speaker 1: She comes back home, never seen again. Her husband photos

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Speaker 1: Duelos is we believe at the home. Then he takes

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Speaker 1: an employee's car without permission, then later tells the employee

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Speaker 1: to switch out the back seat. Trade out back seat?

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Speaker 1: How do you even do that? Then Jennifer's DNA is

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Speaker 1: found in the back seat of the employee's car, and

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Speaker 1: then he Dulos and his mistress, Michelle Chaconas go and

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Speaker 1: have the vehicle totally detailed and cleaned. Right. A work truck,

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Speaker 1: a work truck. This worker is like, there's no this

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Speaker 1: is something that we use for construction. We don't we

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Speaker 1: don't keep it shiny and clean. He was. He was

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Speaker 1: actually offended, according to some reports, he was offended that

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Speaker 1: Photus had taken his truck to be clean, he said,

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Speaker 1: and he wanted his truck back and they couldn't find

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Speaker 1: the keys, and they said, we'll get it back to you.

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Speaker 1: So there was a lot. We're going to hear a

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Speaker 1: lot more about this truck and this worker, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it was definitely something that they believed was a major

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Speaker 1: part of this crime. They believed that Photus Dulus was

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Speaker 1: lying in wait in the garage, that he had it

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Speaker 1: planned out. He knew that the five children after school

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Speaker 1: were going to be taken to New York City to

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Speaker 1: be with their grandmother, Gloria Farber, So he thought that

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Speaker 1: he had plenty of time to do whatever he was

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Speaker 1: going to do. And you're right, there was a lot.

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Speaker 1: There was evidence of a violent physical assault. There were

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Speaker 1: numerous places where there was blood found that was cleaned up,

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Speaker 1: and they also found all those cleaning supplies missing. The

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Speaker 1: nanny had just said she had put in multiple roles

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Speaker 1: of paper towels in the pantry. They were all gone.

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Speaker 1: Garbage bags were gone. So there was definitely a cleanup

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Speaker 1: and they believe, you know, we spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time in that neighborhood in New Canaan, and we went

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Speaker 1: around the back of the house. Her house was on

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Speaker 1: a court, and if you cut through the back yard,

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Speaker 1: which is large, there's a wooded area. You keep going

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Speaker 1: through that wooded area, you get to another court and

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Speaker 1: that could be where photos Duelos entered into the backside

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Speaker 1: of the property. That's what we surmised on our investigation

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Speaker 1: when we were there, saying that this is a possible

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Speaker 1: way he could have gotten in because all the security

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Speaker 1: cam from the other neighbors in the courtyard don't show

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Speaker 1: anybody else coming in the front of the house, so

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Speaker 1: he must have got in as alleged through the back well.

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Speaker 1: I always love the moment I get to quote Shakespeare,

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Speaker 1: Oh what a tangled web we we when first we

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Speaker 1: practiced two to see now it's like two whit cats

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Speaker 1: in a barrel. You've got the mistress Michelle Traconis, and

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Speaker 1: you've got Kim Mhuinney. That was husband Photus Dulos, lawyer,

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Speaker 1: who seems to be up in the plot. He's up

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Speaker 1: to his tail hole in alligators. But if you need

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Speaker 1: a refresher course, take a listen to our cut one.

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Speaker 1: It's is CBS two New York reporter Hazel Sanchez. Listen.

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Speaker 1: The latest arrest born gives a clearer picture of what

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Speaker 1: investigators believe happened on the day Jennifer Dulos dropped off

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Speaker 1: her kids at school and then vanished. A home surveillance

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Speaker 1: camera captured the last known photo of her walking up

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Speaker 1: to her New Canaan home at eight five on the

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Speaker 1: morning she disappeared. Police say Duelos borrowed and employees Toyota

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Speaker 1: Tacoma truck and drove to the home, where Potus Dulos

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Speaker 1: is believed to have been lying in wait at sixty

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Speaker 1: nine Wells Lane for his wife to return home. Police

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Speaker 1: say Jennifer Dulos was the victim of a serious physical

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Speaker 1: assault based on bloodstains and spatter found in the garage.

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Speaker 1: According to the warrant, the crime and the cleanup are

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Speaker 1: believed to have occurred between eight or five am and

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Speaker 1: ten twenty five am. That's when surveillance images show Jennifer

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Speaker 1: Dulos's suv leaving the home. Police believe her husband was

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Speaker 1: driving it with her body inside. Now the knives are out,

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Speaker 1: you know to you, I think you need a shrink

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Speaker 1: with me right now, psychiatrists. Doctor Angela Arnold joining me

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Speaker 1: from the Atlanta Juristiction. You can find her at Angela

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Speaker 1: Arnold MD dot com. You know, it does seemingly doesn't

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Speaker 1: take much because apparently Fotus Dulos's lawyer is turning on

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Speaker 1: his mistress. And I guarantee you it's to save his

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Speaker 1: own skin, doctor Anie. It does, of course it is.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure, Nancy, don't you feel like they're all

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Speaker 1: they're all scratching their head because photos Dulos committed suicide. Yes,

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Speaker 1: now nobody has Now, nobody has any kind of defense.

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Speaker 1: Oh and you know what we learned in medical school.

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Speaker 1: Don't look for the zebras in the room. Honey. This

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Speaker 1: is right in front of us. And it sounds to

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Speaker 1: me like like it's it just has to be proved.

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Speaker 1: But it is right in front of us. The truth

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Speaker 1: is right in front of us, the truth right in

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Speaker 1: front of us. And joining me with what I believe

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Speaker 1: will be that truth is Laura Ingle, Fox News senior correspondent.

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Speaker 1: You have to listen to her podcast, Murder in Connecticut,

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Speaker 1: The Jennifer Dulos Story. It's on Fox Nation. Hey, Laura,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to this, says our friend at NBC,

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Speaker 1: Marissa altur Cut twenty three. Defense attorney John Showinhorn today

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Speaker 1: maintained the entire case against his client, rust On Mulwinney,

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Speaker 1: who was in custody in till October when his bond

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Speaker 1: was reduced after meeting with state police. Schoen Horn says

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Speaker 1: he still hasn't been told if Mulwinney made a deal.

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Speaker 1: Did mister Mulinney sing for his supper to use an

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Speaker 1: old phrase, and that's why he got out of Attorney

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Speaker 1: Mulwinney's statement is one piece out of many pieces pointing

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Speaker 1: to the dependent guilt in this case that the state

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Speaker 1: mayor put on. Traconis is also charged with evidence tampering

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Speaker 1: and hindering prosecution. Today, Assistant State's Attorney Daniel Cummings argued

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Speaker 1: all the charges should be consolidated for one trial. In essence,

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Speaker 1: a joint trial would ameliorate the need to put on

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Speaker 1: the same witnesses repeatedly to tie a judicial staff. It

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Speaker 1: would expedite justice. Schoen Horn countered the motion is premature

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Speaker 1: since he's filed to move two of the cases to

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Speaker 1: the Hertford Judicial District. The judge made no decision on

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Speaker 1: jurisdiction or combining the cases, but he did rule Conis

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Speaker 1: will Keeper GPS Angle Monitor well out on bond to

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Speaker 1: Laura Angele Fox. Do you, Senior correspondent, what are the

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Speaker 1: charges on the lawyer mufwinnie and why? Yeah, they're they're

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Speaker 1: dealing with hindering prosecution and tampering with evidence. They're kind

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Speaker 1: of bulking that in. That's the very similar charges that

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Speaker 1: Shelter Konism is facing as well. And I do want

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Speaker 1: to note that Ken McWhinney was, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: a friend of Dulos, that he was somebody who dealt

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Speaker 1: with Dullos in this boy. This divorce case with Jennifer

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Speaker 1: Dulas was so messy, the custodial case so messy, so

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Speaker 1: drawn out, and he was involved in the initial stages

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Speaker 1: of that UM and so he was, you know, brought

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Speaker 1: into Dulos's life during that time from what we have

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Speaker 1: been what we see in the court records UM and

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Speaker 1: also was having his own marital problems so severe that

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Speaker 1: he was also accused of household rape. He was accused

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Speaker 1: of harassing White. The lawyer Kent mcquinney was accused a

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Speaker 1: spousal rape. Did I hear that correctly? Accused? Yes, accused.

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Speaker 1: What can you tell me about a shallow grave being

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Speaker 1: dug on property that mcquinney and Duelos had access to? Again,

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Speaker 1: it depends on who you talk to, but people who

422
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: are members of a gun club hunting and gun club

423
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: in the Connecticut area, of which Kent McWhinney was once

424
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: a member of, in fact a founding member of years

425
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 1: ago and was not a current member of. Just before

426
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: Jennifer Duelos went missing, reignited his interest in the club

427
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: and said, hey, can I come and take a look

428
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: at the property. I want to take a look around.

429
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: I might be interested in rejoining this club. This is

430
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: a really wide open space kind of area, lots of trees,

431
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: lots of dirt, and where people go hunting. So he

432
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: allegedly went over to that club, got access to a

433
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: key that went to a fence, and fast forward to

434
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: after Jennifer Dulos goes missing, two hunters walking around stumble

435
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: upon a tarp over a hole. They pull it back

436
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: and they go, what's this? They pull it back and

437
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: they realize that it's about six feet long. Bottom line,

438
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: there was a grave dug the cots get called, and

439
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: by the time the cots get back, the grave is filled. Gee,

440
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: I wonder who did that? Just around the time that

441
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: Jennifer Dulos is murdered. Climb stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

442
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: back to the developing story surrounding the disappearance and I

443
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: believe the death of a Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer

444
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: Dulos if you all remember at the time, to you

445
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: Randy Kessler, high profile Atlanta trial lawyer, the defense for

446
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: Potus Duelos, the naughty, cheating husband throughout everything you can imagine,

447
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of Mark Geargos and Scott Peterson case.

448
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: First they said, Jennifer just ran off with her boyfriend.

449
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: What boyfriend? No evidence, no phone records, no self no emails, nothing,

450
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: there's no boyfriend. Then they said it was a gone

451
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: girl thing that she was pretending to be missing just

452
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: to make Photus Dulos look bad. Then they said, oh gosh,

453
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: what did they say next? Oh? Then they said she

454
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: was insane, hysterical like people always say about women. And

455
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: then they said, oh, this was a really good b Randy.

456
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: They said it was revenge suicide that she decided to

457
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: kill herself, leaving her five children without a mother, in

458
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: order to make him Photus Duelos look bad. Now, I'm

459
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: not a shrink like doctor Angela, but I know what

460
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: narcissism means. So she committed suicide just to make him

461
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: look bad. What about it, Randy Kester, what do you

462
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: think of all those theories? Well, I think all those

463
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: theories have one thing in common, right, nobody. I mean,

464
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: you know, and I know lots of convictions. There are

465
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: lots of convictions when there's nobody. But if I was

466
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: the defense, you know, you've got to prove somebody killed somebody.

467
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: And how do you best true other than showing the

468
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: body that you know? That's that's a burden. That's that's

469
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: a burden of prosecution. And I think whatever the theory is,

470
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: someone's got to explain the disappearance and all those explanations. Yes,

471
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: their conjecture, but you know what did just as well

472
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: to the defense as the fact that my client has

473
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: to do with the murder man. You certainly know how

474
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: to put perfume on the pig. I guess that's why

475
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: you're you're so successful as a defense attorney. Now you

476
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 1: say conjecture that all of those conflicting stories about Jennifer

477
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: killing herself just to make photos dulos look bad. That's conjecture.

478
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: You know. Some people will call it an outright lie,

479
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: dragging the victim through the mud, putting stories on the

480
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: Internet from her children to grow up and read one

481
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: day about their mother, their dead, murdered mother. But that's

482
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: just me, all right. I know you call it conjecture.

483
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: If you say tomato, I say tomato. It's really not

484
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: that simple, is it. Straight back to Joska Morgan, professor forensic,

485
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: you were telling me about partial DNA before I switched

486
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: gears and went to Laura Ingle. Can you follow up

487
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: on that please? Yeah? Yeah, Ken, And to a Steam

488
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: counsel Randy Kessler, I would argue this. You know, we

489
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: do have a corpus delecta here, or at least an

490
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: element of it, the body in the series. I love

491
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: it when you taught white and to me, my husband's

492
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: gonna get mad. Go ahead, Hey there we go. I've

493
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: got my Black's Law dictionary right here. Uh yeah, this

494
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: is this is, this is what this is about, Nancy.

495
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: We do have an element of the body. Let's keep

496
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: in mind what doctor Gill said, who's with the State

497
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's Office in Connecticut. Essentially, and I'm paraphrasing here,

498
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: the amount of blood and the dynamic at the scene

499
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: was essentially incompatible with life. And we have we they

500
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: actually have identified that that blood, that copious, that huge

501
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: volume of blood at the scene is tied back to Jennifer.

502
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: Now they've they've done that through DNA analysis. You know,

503
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: there's enough of her that remains that they can do

504
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: a comparative analysis. I mean, she's got children, she's got

505
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: you know, relatives and this sort of thing. However, this

506
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: is the important part, Nancy. There is such a volume

507
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: of blood at the scene. This is such a ghastly

508
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: scene where we've got whites swipes, where there's attempts to

509
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: clean up. I'm sure they did things like luminoll or

510
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: blue Star at the scene to recapture this. And we

511
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: have bags of bloody claws and this sort of thing

512
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: containing her blood. The normal human body holds about one

513
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: point two to one point five gallons of blood. Just imagine,

514
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: if you will, Okay, just envision. You take a gallon

515
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: of milk, of whole milk, and you drop it on

516
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: the floor, and this has never happened to you. It's horrible.

517
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: But the gallon jug bust open and you have all

518
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: of this blood or we're talking milk, but that's the

519
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: amount of blood we're talking about. The doctor looks at

520
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: this the m e without seeing a body, and he says,

521
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: this amount of blood that you have here, distributed every place,

522
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: this is incompatible with life. This is an end. Wherever

523
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: this originated from on her is non sustainable. You can't sustains,

524
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: you can't believe that much is still be alive. I

525
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: say to boil it down for the jury. Guys, take

526
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: a listen in case you're trying to figure out what

527
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: involvement does Potus Dulos lawyer have in on Jennifer's disappearance,

528
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: What involvement does the lover Michelle Jacconis have. Well, take

529
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: a listen to Fox sixty one Connecticut w tic Jan

530
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: Bernstein art cut twenty four. Mister mulwhinney claims that although

531
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: he had no involvement, that he was present at for

532
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: Jefferson Crossing on the evening of May twenty third, twenty nineteen,

533
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: and heard photos Dulos and my client talking about wanting

534
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 1: to quote get rid of Jennifer Dulos, so get rid

535
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: of quote unquote, he claimed that that was crazy, that

536
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: he wanted to have nothing to do with it, and

537
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: he goes home that evening and the next afternoon, late

538
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: in the afternoon, Photus Dulos, according to this statement, calls

539
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: him and says words the effect of we did it.

540
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: And so as a result of that, there is now

541
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: at least some indication that mister mulhinney is a state's witness.

542
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: He admits during the course of the interview very readily

543
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: that he's doing this because he wants to get out

544
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: of jail, and he was rewarded for that. Well, I

545
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to get out

546
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: of jail. I am being rewarded for our telling the

547
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: truth back to special guests joining us. Laura Ingle, Fox

548
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: News correspondent, host of Murdering Connecticut that Jennifer Dulos story

549
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: on Fox Nation. Laura Ingle, So, do I understand that

550
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: mhuinney was at Dulos's home when Fotus Dulo said he

551
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: wanted to get rid of his wife. Well, we don't

552
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: know about the conversation that was had. We do know

553
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: that they did spend a lot of time together that week,

554
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: and that is you know, a lot of people have

555
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: been saying, look, he's going to be this big witness,

556
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: that he's going to be able to tell us stuff

557
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: as well as Michelle. But the other person that we

558
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: want to look at as we get closer into this

559
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: case and as we will get closer to the trial,

560
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: is that worker Powell. Now, I spent almost eleven hours

561
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: with Photo Stulos on December twentieth, twenty nineteen. He granted

562
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: us an interview inside of his home and we spent

563
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: a lot of time with him, and he did talk

564
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: to us about this worker, not on camera, but after

565
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: we were done. You know, he was talking about the

566
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: fact that this guy was on his property and that

567
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 1: he worked with him. He didn't directly point the finger

568
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: at him, but kind of wanted us to take a

569
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: closer look at this worker. I think that that was

570
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: where kind of his defense was going to be going.

571
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: But it was very interesting, Nancy. I talked to him

572
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: on December twentieth, and we learned, you know, when you're

573
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: around somebody for that long, he was cordial, he was agitated.

574
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: He kind of swayed back and forth with his emotions

575
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: throughout the day. I handed him my business card as

576
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 1: I left. Now it's the evening at this point, and

577
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: he ended up calling me on my cell phone on

578
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: Christmas morning, which completely threw me off guard. I mean,

579
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: I was, you know, exchanging gifts in the neighborhood with

580
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 1: my child and other children, and my phone rings. It's

581
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: a Miami number. I don't know anybody in Miami. And

582
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: I answered the phone and he says, hello, this is

583
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: photos Dulos and I look and because I had just

584
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: spent so much time with him, I knew his voice

585
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: and I was so taken aback. I said, well, hello,

586
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: are you calling to tell me anything new that we

587
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: didn't talk about? And he said, I'm just simply calling

588
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: to wish you a merry Christmas. And then he asked

589
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 1: me where I was, and I said I'm in New York.

590
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 1: I didn't want to give him my location, but it

591
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 1: was just a way. It was just a really, really

592
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: odd encounter. And then you know, he was so adamant

593
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: and wanted to talk to us again. He said, I'm

594
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: looking forward to talking to you again when I can

595
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: talk more freely about the evidence in this case. Fast

596
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: forward three weeks, three and a half weeks and he

597
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 1: commits suicide. So just a really bizarre turn of events

598
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: in those thirty days for us covering this trial, covering

599
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: this kid. Do you believe Laura Ingalls that photos Dulo's

600
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: defense attorney Mhuinney, he is going to testify against Dulo's mistress,

601
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: michel Ter Konis. I believe that he probably will. There's

602
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 1: been a lot of talk that he has been anxious

603
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: to get out of the charges and not go back

604
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 1: to jail, so I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

605
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: But we've tried repeatedly to speak to his attorney, who

606
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: was not spoken to us, so I can't say for sure,

607
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: but all signs point to that. Right we wait as

608
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: justice unfalls. Right now, the so called bone finder, Bob Perry,

609
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:51,760
Speaker 1: after conducting experiments, does believe that does believe that Jennifer

610
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: Dulos's body may be somewhere on Dulo's property. Nancy Grace

611
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: Crime's story signing off Goodbye Friend,