Speaker 1: Loud and Quiet presents Midnight Chats.
Speaker 2: Evening listeners, Welcome to this new episode of Midnight Chats.
Speaker 2: Before we start, let it be known that it is
Speaker 2: tough being on the cutting edge of hard hitting journalism
Speaker 2: here every fortnight doing our podcast. It really is. The
Speaker 2: conversation you're about to hear starts with a discussion about
Speaker 2: when it's okay to throw a snowball at a child
Speaker 2: who's thrown at you, and ends with some powerful chat
Speaker 2: about vegetables that look like evil cartoon characters. So we
Speaker 2: have gone for the big serious stuff this time, and
Speaker 2: more of that in a sec. Thank you for downloading
Speaker 2: or streaming this new episode of Midnight Chats. Last time out,
Speaker 2: Stuart was chatting to Old Jay. Do check that episode
Speaker 2: out if you haven't already. I'll be honest. They were
Speaker 2: a lot funnier than I was expecting. Really really enjoyed it,
Speaker 2: and they sounded like good company. If you're one of
Speaker 2: the hardcore that have been with us since the early
Speaker 2: days of Midnight Chats, first off, thanks very much, but
Speaker 2: also sorry because you might have heard this before. We
Speaker 2: have had some new subscribers recently, so I did want
Speaker 2: to quickly just explain what it is we do here
Speaker 2: on our podcast, it's Midnight Chats. We're mak a new
Speaker 2: one every fortnight. They go up on a Thursday at midnight,
Speaker 2: and our guests are musicians. We like musicians we think
Speaker 2: are interesting in conversation that has a late night feel.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I host them, I'm Greg and sometimes it's Stuart,
Speaker 2: my colleague, and yeah, that's it in a nutshell. We
Speaker 2: also make a magazine here where we're based in London
Speaker 2: that comes out every month, and in fact we've just
Speaker 2: put out a new issue and Serpent with Feet is
Speaker 2: on the cover if you're listening to this in the UK.
Speaker 2: We have also just launched a new subscriber offer for
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Speaker 2: Loud and Quiet dot com slash subscribe, that's the place
Speaker 2: to go for that. Okay, that's the sales. Pitch over
Speaker 2: and onto. My guest on tonight's podcast, Courtney Barnett, dropped
Speaker 2: by our offices in East London to record this conversation.
Speaker 2: It was at the beginning of March, which is a
Speaker 2: while ago now. She was on tour playing in her
Speaker 2: partner Jen Kloer's live band. It was really cold that day,
Speaker 2: I think, perhaps even as cold as minus twelve or
Speaker 2: something like that. Anyway, there was four or five six
Speaker 2: inches of snow in London. The schools were closed. It
Speaker 2: was quiet, it was empty. There were mostly people skiving
Speaker 2: off work, pretending that they couldn't get there, that kind
Speaker 2: of thing. But we were chatting because Courtney has a
Speaker 2: new album out. It's called Tell Me How You Really Feel,
Speaker 2: and it's going to be released in the middle of
Speaker 2: May as the follow up to the Australian's very successful
Speaker 2: debut Sometimes I Sit and think and sometimes I just sit.
Speaker 2: That was an album that saw her nominated at the
Speaker 2: Grammys at the Brits. She toured all over the place
Speaker 2: and it threw her into a world that I get
Speaker 2: the impression she definitely wasn't expecting but deserves. Nonetheless, Anyway,
Speaker 2: Courtney was lovely and the conversation you're about to hear
Speaker 2: kind of goes all over the place. There's some stuff
Speaker 2: about Courtney's needy and angry but lovely sounding cat bubbles.
Speaker 2: We talked about going to the cinema and where the
Speaker 2: best place is to sit and whether you should make
Speaker 2: any noise with the snacks that you take to the cinema.
Speaker 2: The Breeders come up because Kim and Kelly Dial from
Speaker 2: The Breeders, who Courty's a huge fan of, appear on
Speaker 2: her new album The Typewriter that Courtney wrote some of
Speaker 2: the lyrics on for this new album. And also we
Speaker 2: finished things off by talking about Roast Dinners because the
Speaker 2: final track on the album is about roast Dinners. One
Speaker 2: final thing this will only make sense if you get
Speaker 2: to the end of the podcast, which I hope you do,
Speaker 2: But the evil cauliflower that Courtney is describing is actually
Speaker 2: a lime green Romanesque broccoli cauliflower. Now, if you've never
Speaker 2: heard of that before, I hadn't google it, and it
Speaker 2: will make sense because it does look very evil. So
Speaker 2: listen to this podcast and then feel free to search
Speaker 2: for some evil looking vegetables. That's exactly what I did,
Speaker 2: So there you go. Enjoy we episode forty seven of
Speaker 2: Midnight Chats with Courtney Barnett and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2: I've just checked and it's twenty six degrees in Melbourne today.
Speaker 2: Oh toasty. Right here in London as we sit down
Speaker 2: to record this, it is something like minus five I
Speaker 2: heard on the news. I'm guessing you've never seen London
Speaker 2: like this before.
Speaker 3: No, I've seen a bit of snow kind of maybe
Speaker 3: in Chicago when I've been there, but I think I
Speaker 3: think this is the most the most I've ever kind
Speaker 3: of been a part of. So it's it's quite exciting
Speaker 3: for me.
Speaker 2: Presumably you didn't get a lot of snow in Melbourne
Speaker 2: or Sydney growing up, so is it still got like
Speaker 2: a charm factor? Do you think, oh snow, that's nice?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh snow? Is it pain?
Speaker 4: No, it's so romantic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got a bit of snow like you know,
Speaker 3: up in the mountains, but it wouldn't snow in the
Speaker 3: in the city, in the city, so it's like the
Speaker 3: movies out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Did you have to go on like a family
Speaker 2: holiday or a school trip or something to actually go
Speaker 2: and see some snow going up in Australia?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember I lived in so Yeah, I grew
Speaker 3: up in Sydney and I remember we went on a
Speaker 3: school trip to Canberra, like where Parliament is. It's between
Speaker 3: Melbourne and Sydney, but closer to Sydney. So they couldn't
Speaker 3: choose where to make Australia's capital, so they made this
Speaker 3: little make belief place. It's called the Act. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I saw a bit of snow there. But actually there
Speaker 3: was this weird when I was eighteen, Oh yeah, eighteen,
Speaker 3: I got you know, glandular fever, like so I was
Speaker 3: I was home from school for like a week, and
Speaker 3: which I was upset about because I loved school.
Speaker 4: Nerd and this is.
Speaker 3: In tazzy and I was sleeping on the couch that's
Speaker 3: like the pull out couch in the launde room, and
Speaker 3: I woke up one morning I was really sick and fevery,
Speaker 3: and I woke up and it was snowing everywhere, and
Speaker 3: that never happens there, Like we've got Mount Wellington where
Speaker 3: it snows, but it wouldn't snow at like you know,
Speaker 3: ground level, and it was really beautiful. I've never forgotten
Speaker 3: this because then my mum came up and was like,
Speaker 3: good morning, and she was like, I've got some sad
Speaker 3: news to tell you. Your your grandfather passed away. Overnight
Speaker 3: and I was like really sad, but it was this
Speaker 3: really beautiful, weird moment, like of something so surreal, and
Speaker 3: I've never forgotten it. I always think about it now
Speaker 3: when it snows. So anyway, there's a little side note,
Speaker 3: side story.
Speaker 2: If you had a snowball fight today not today, have
Speaker 2: happened before?
Speaker 3: Yeah, differentely when we probably as a band on tour
Speaker 3: getting over excited with the snow.
Speaker 2: The reason I asked because this morning I woke up
Speaker 2: and where my flat is, there's like a little car
Speaker 2: park and it was full of snow and it's some
Speaker 2: families that live next to us, and one of the
Speaker 2: children of the families threw a snowball at me and
Speaker 2: he's about six years old. And I didn't really know
Speaker 2: what the etiquette was with that. But do you throw
Speaker 2: a snowball back at a child? Like what?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 2: I didn't really know whether to engage in a snowball fight,
Speaker 2: because you don't. I sort of wanted to competitive, but
Speaker 2: I also didn't want to throw a snowball.
Speaker 4: At a child that I don't get arrested.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's tricky. Don't know about the snowball etiquette.
Speaker 2: I have no idea. Is it nice to be back
Speaker 2: in London? I mean you've spent you've been We've been
Speaker 2: here on kind of various trips over the last few years.
Speaker 2: So is it somewhere that you always when you look
Speaker 2: at the the sort of list of places you're going
Speaker 2: to be hitting up, is it always like, oh, we'll
Speaker 2: be back in London. That'sol.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's you know, I guess because it's that kind
Speaker 3: of a major, major kind of spot. We've come here definitely. Yeah,
Speaker 3: spend a lot of time here, done a lot of
Speaker 3: great shows, and made a handful of great friends in London,
Speaker 3: and so yeah, it feels like that kind of that
Speaker 3: home home spot in this area.
Speaker 4: So that's always nice.
Speaker 2: Right now, back home in because you're based in Melbourne.
Speaker 2: When you go home, right and that's like roasting hot,
Speaker 2: it's like midsummer. So how do you feel Does it
Speaker 2: feel like you're kind of like depriving yourself of summer
Speaker 2: right now? Or do you not mind? Is it too
Speaker 2: hot back home?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: When I left it was we had like forty degree days, Yeah,
Speaker 3: which was really crazy, But that's really not that normal.
Speaker 4: I think that normally in Melbourne we.
Speaker 3: Are it's normally kind of just average. It's never crazy hot,
Speaker 3: like as crazy as Sydney or Brisbane or Darwin in
Speaker 3: it's so like tropical. But Melbourne's kind of traditionally, you know,
Speaker 3: you always take a jacket with you just in case,
Speaker 3: kind of material. So I feel like the last couple
Speaker 3: of years, I've kind of chased summer around the world,
Speaker 3: luckily doing festivals and touring, and I probably deserve a
Speaker 3: little bit of winter.
Speaker 2: I've not been to Melbourne before. I've been to Sydney
Speaker 2: very briefly. But what's the perfect day back home in
Speaker 2: Melbourne for you in terms of what you like to do.
Speaker 3: I'm normally just hanging around home when I'm home. It's
Speaker 3: a really nice little spot. And then I've got a
Speaker 3: warehouse where we run Milk Records from, which is kind
Speaker 3: of a five minute drive, but normally I walk and
Speaker 3: it's about thirty minutes through the Mary.
Speaker 4: Creek, which is really beautiful to walk along.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I normally kind of get up, have coffee,
Speaker 3: maybe make a piece of toe with Virgie.
Speaker 4: Might.
Speaker 3: Classic so Australian, and then yeah, put headphones on and
Speaker 3: walk over to the warehouse and listen to musical podcasts
Speaker 3: or when I was writing, I was kind of listening
Speaker 3: to demos and stuff like that. And then I kind
Speaker 3: of work from the warehouse most days, either doing like
Speaker 3: Milk Records stuff really boring kind of packing.
Speaker 2: Jobs from the day to day detail of running a
Speaker 2: record label. Like you just mentioned that you might be
Speaker 2: stuffing envelopes with the latest releases, but you might also
Speaker 2: be working on the accounts or talking to an artists
Speaker 2: that you're about to release or something. So what are
Speaker 2: the things that you love getting heavily involved with with
Speaker 2: running your own record label or is it everything?
Speaker 3: Well, now I think Jen Jen and I do, yeah,
Speaker 3: a majority of the kind of admin and then we
Speaker 3: have a couple of awesome kind of warehouse in charge
Speaker 3: of the shop people. And yeah, Jen is better at
Speaker 3: the kind of admin talking to artists, talking to organizing things.
Speaker 3: I'm not the greatest at checking my emails. I've still
Speaker 3: got emails from like last year that I need to
Speaker 3: get back to and I always mean to, but I
Speaker 3: just I'm just no good at it, so it's not
Speaker 3: my strength. But I love, I actually really enjoy doing
Speaker 3: the kind of boring folding T shirts and making everything
Speaker 3: really neat and tidy and just stacking things, and so
Speaker 3: Jen doesn't like that, and I do. I do like it,
Speaker 3: and you know, stamping things and designing, designing shirts and stickers,
Speaker 3: and it's so nice having that space because we can
Speaker 3: just kind of it's quite multipurpose as well, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: we can have rehearsals there and have little kind of
Speaker 3: screenings and mini shows, and it's just really nice to
Speaker 3: be able to kind of use it as a community
Speaker 3: kind of space.
Speaker 2: Did it just evolve like that? Were there places that
Speaker 2: you look to that you saw were doing similar things
Speaker 2: that influenced you?
Speaker 3: I think when I first kind of had the idea,
Speaker 3: which seemed quite grand and maybe a bit impossible, it
Speaker 3: was along those kind of lines. And I just liked
Speaker 3: the idea of doing the work and learning how to
Speaker 3: do the things you didn't know so that you could
Speaker 3: kind of do it yourself or get people you know,
Speaker 3: involved to kind of share talents and just as a
Speaker 3: kind of means, you know, of necessity of just kind
Speaker 3: of not having the money to outsource like expensive more
Speaker 3: expensive you know professionals, I guess, And so that's kind
Speaker 3: of how it started. And then yeah, I saw I
Speaker 3: got to go to the Nashville third Man, and it
Speaker 3: was really inspiring. It was it was kind of everything
Speaker 3: I'd imagined in my mind in this really cool, colorful
Speaker 3: place and just really thoughtfully kind of designed and created.
Speaker 4: And there's heaps of Melbourne.
Speaker 3: Labels like We've got our friends run this label called
Speaker 3: Poison City. It's a shop front as well in Fitzroy
Speaker 3: and it's only small, but you know the kind of
Speaker 3: ethics and morals behind it, and just the passion I
Speaker 3: think is I'm always so much more attracted to that.
Speaker 3: I don't know, the other kind of like not as
Speaker 3: exciting side of music, of all the all the other stuff,
Speaker 3: but the more creative side and just sharing that passion
Speaker 3: with people I think is really it's just when you
Speaker 3: go to those little shows and you see people just
Speaker 3: over the moon with what's going on. I love I
Speaker 3: love going to those to those things.
Speaker 2: I think people maybe have like a really glamorous view
Speaker 2: of what it might be like to run your own
Speaker 2: record label. What are some of the most sort of menial,
Speaker 2: unglamorous things that go into actually doing it.
Speaker 3: Maybe that kind of stuff I was talking about before,
Speaker 3: which is not like it's unglamorous, it's just yeah, maybe
Speaker 3: we always have a funny idea of what the music
Speaker 3: industry is.
Speaker 4: I know I did growing up.
Speaker 3: It was a lot more kind of shiny or you know,
Speaker 3: the evil side of it, which you're kind of told about.
Speaker 3: But it's really cool being able to just have that
Speaker 3: kind of platform that we can make art from. And
Speaker 3: I think that the you know, to keep the rules
Speaker 3: pretty loose, like it doesn't need to be music doesn't
Speaker 3: need to be made in a certain way or released
Speaker 3: in a certain way. We just kind of get used
Speaker 3: to the methods that everyone does. And you know, it's nice.
Speaker 3: We've got a couple of artists, you know, we can
Speaker 3: kind of sell their prints that they make or just
Speaker 3: I don't know, just.
Speaker 2: So they've got like creative outlets. You can not be
Speaker 2: limited just to putting out their latest seven inch or whatever.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I just like that kind of idea of being able
Speaker 3: to to use the platform for for whatever your creative
Speaker 3: kind of idea. And then we've, yeah, this beautiful community
Speaker 3: has kind of built around us from all the bands
Speaker 3: and people who buy the music can come to the shows,
Speaker 3: and there's no real label of who those people are.
Speaker 3: They're always so different and I love that they just
Speaker 3: connect with with the band and the idea.
Speaker 2: I think there must be a lot of satisfaction to
Speaker 2: basically having created your own job by starting your own
Speaker 2: record label. You're obviously making music and running a label
Speaker 2: in parallel. But in the future, do you sort of
Speaker 2: think you'll do you sort of for see yourself carrying
Speaker 2: on and running the label forever because you've you know,
Speaker 2: you're cultivating something. Now, do you do you always see
Speaker 2: those two things working in tandem?
Speaker 3: Ah, I think yeah, at that moment, I kind of do.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 3: See yeah, in the in the kind of near future,
Speaker 3: I think that that. I mean, we've kind of talked about, yeah,
Speaker 3: finding someone who who really is really like minded and
Speaker 3: and can kind of help do the bits that we
Speaker 3: maybe don't know how to do as well, or you know,
Speaker 3: so that Jen and I both kind of you know,
Speaker 3: make music obviously, and it can really get like eighty
Speaker 3: percent emails and twenty percent songwriting sometimes. But I think
Speaker 3: the balances is kind of fun.
Speaker 2: You've obviously been on the road a lot so far
Speaker 2: this year already in fact, like playing in Gen's band,
Speaker 2: and now you're kind of coming to the point where
Speaker 2: you're going to be you're sort of talking about your
Speaker 2: new record with that coming out in May. As part
Speaker 2: of that, you obviously traveling to different places and doing
Speaker 2: things like this, having interviews and doing that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: But today you went to the Cat Cafe And what
Speaker 2: was that like? Just for people that don't know what
Speaker 2: that is, that is a cafe full of cats, Yes,
Speaker 2: pretty simply. What was that like?
Speaker 4: Yeah? It was it was It was nice. It was fun.
Speaker 3: You know, the cats seem very happy and everyone there
Speaker 3: they definitely go to too great lengths to keep the
Speaker 3: cats happy and safe, which is nice because I'm a
Speaker 3: cat lover.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I do. Bubbles Bubbles, Yeah, is it Bubbles
Speaker 4: a hero?
Speaker 2: She is?
Speaker 4: She okay?
Speaker 2: And what's Bubbles like?
Speaker 4: She's great. She's kind of.
Speaker 3: Needy and angry, but she's really she's really considerate, very
Speaker 3: warm and loving. She's always always looks after me when
Speaker 3: I'm sick or sad.
Speaker 2: It's Bubbles like when she's angry.
Speaker 3: Oh, just biding and clawing, and she's pretty aggressive.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you get the impression that when she goes out,
Speaker 2: she's causing trouble? Like the other day, I was visiting
Speaker 2: my wife's family and I heard my wife's mother shouting
Speaker 2: very early in the morning on Sunday morning. And it's
Speaker 2: because their cat had brought in a pigeon through like
Speaker 2: into the bedroom and like put it on the carpet
Speaker 2: and seemed very pleased with itself. Yeah, as if like,
Speaker 2: look what I've done. This is brilliant. Why don't you
Speaker 2: think that that's impressive?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a gift.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but unfortunately the pigeon was still alive and did
Speaker 2: get released. Was okay, Yeah this Bubbles ever do anything
Speaker 2: like that?
Speaker 3: No, I think she's too slow. Yeah she she doesn't.
Speaker 3: She looks like she's not very nimble. I'll show you
Speaker 3: quick photo. Sorry for anyone that can't see, but she's
Speaker 3: a she's a lilac Burmese.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, she looks a bit angry in that photo.
Speaker 2: She looks like a criminal mastermind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, she's I think she's a pacifist, you know.
Speaker 3: She she sits out in the garden and the birds
Speaker 3: kind of tease her, and she just wants to get
Speaker 3: some sun on a Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who looks after Bubbles when you're away.
Speaker 3: We got a handful of of great friends who who
Speaker 3: love her, and they live in sharehouses and I think
Speaker 3: they come and stay at our house and look after her.
Speaker 2: She looks after them cat protection. When you get home,
Speaker 2: is Bubbles generally pleased to see you? Or is Bubbles like,
Speaker 2: where the hell have you been?
Speaker 3: She's pretty Yeah, I think she's happy. She doesn't play
Speaker 3: it too cold.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you started this year heading out on the road
Speaker 2: quite a bit. What are you like? I mean, it
Speaker 2: sounds like being at home is great because obviously, you know,
Speaker 2: you're running the label and very busy with all that
Speaker 2: side of things. So are you type of person that
Speaker 2: really enjoys being out on the road or are you
Speaker 2: constantly thinking about being at home or do you can
Speaker 2: you enjoy both those things?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I enjoy birth.
Speaker 3: I think it's and I've definitely, you know, learned that
Speaker 3: the balance, the balance of those two things is so
Speaker 3: important because too much touring, I think can kind of
Speaker 3: drive you crazy. And you know, everyone in my band,
Speaker 3: including myself, you know, has a partner, so to be
Speaker 3: away I think can be obviously difficult on relationships. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think finding that balance of music home, family, because yeah,
Speaker 3: that stuff's obviously so important. I love I love being
Speaker 3: able to tour the world. It's such a huge kind
Speaker 3: of privilege and for those songs to connect with people
Speaker 3: so amazing. But yeah, families is really important and spending
Speaker 3: that kind of quality time. Yeah, it's nice making the balance.
Speaker 2: How do you think back on the period now where
Speaker 2: when you released your first EPs and the debut album,
Speaker 2: you were touring so much, felt like you played a
Speaker 2: lot of show. So do you think back onto that
Speaker 2: period now and be like, Wow, I'm almost not sure
Speaker 2: how I had the stamina to do that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it blows my mind because I'm quite a lethargic
Speaker 3: person most of the time. And it's almost like it's
Speaker 3: like a sink or swim kind of thing. Just kept on,
Speaker 3: kept on swimming, and it's so exciting. I think I'd
Speaker 3: never been overseas before before. Music kind of took me,
Speaker 3: took me around the world. And yeah, for the kind
Speaker 3: of small parts of tour that can be tiring or
Speaker 3: annoying or whatever, it's pretty minimal compared to the kind
Speaker 3: of opportunity and environment and people that you can meet,
Speaker 3: I think, And.
Speaker 2: That period obviously took you around the world, played probably
Speaker 2: hundreds of shows, even took you to places like the Grammys,
Speaker 2: which was well, what was the Grammys, like because I
Speaker 2: mean I imagine that was quite a severe experience.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was pretty surreal.
Speaker 3: Just I guess a place I never would have thought
Speaker 3: I would have end up, and you know, I might
Speaker 3: never be invited invited back, So it was like.
Speaker 4: A strange I mean, it was great.
Speaker 3: It was great to be Yeah, just to be kind
Speaker 3: of considered as as whatever the word is, like a nominee,
Speaker 3: someone who I just feel like I don't really fit
Speaker 3: the mold of what that world is maybe, So it
Speaker 3: was you know, it's kind of nice to think that
Speaker 3: my music can transcend somehow to another world where I
Speaker 3: thought maybe I didn't, I didn't kind of belong.
Speaker 4: But yeah, did you kind of enjoy the night because
Speaker 4: it was fun? Yeah.
Speaker 2: Earlier on I was watching them, I was looking it up,
Speaker 2: and I watched the video where you were walking you
Speaker 2: were on the red carpet and you were speaking to
Speaker 2: a guy, very enthusiastic reporter. I think his name was Tyler,
Speaker 2: and it just looked that like American entertainment world, it
Speaker 2: is so sort of energetic and kind of hyperactively excited
Speaker 2: about something like the Grammys and there's all these people
Speaker 2: coming down the red carpet. It looks manic, and yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know whether, like I wasn't sure whether you
Speaker 2: sort of found the whole thing kind of curious, interesting,
Speaker 2: or just like bizarre.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess a mixture of all those things. It
Speaker 3: was pretty bizarre, I guess for me because it's, yeah,
Speaker 3: not my world, but I guess yeah, it's some people
Speaker 3: that is their their world, and that's cool too.
Speaker 2: I love there's a bit in it where he said like, oh,
Speaker 2: do you want to collaborate with Alsia Keys and Beyonce
Speaker 2: or something? And I was just like, and you were
Speaker 2: just you seem to be just like wow, I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, I'm looking for him.
Speaker 2: So once that sort of period had come to an end,
Speaker 2: you played your last show in support of the debut album,
Speaker 2: did you you headed back to Melbourne? And what was
Speaker 2: that experience of kind of decompressing from that sort of
Speaker 2: two or three year on the road period, Like, because
Speaker 2: it must be strange when you wake up on that
Speaker 2: Monday morning or whatever and you're like, Okay, so this
Speaker 2: is the point where I'm supposed to start writing more
Speaker 2: music or whatever, Like, what does it feel like?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I almost can't remember what the what that kind of
Speaker 3: period was, like I just kind of got back into
Speaker 3: the there's always stuff happening, you know, And I think
Speaker 3: we did. Yeah, I was writing, and then I was
Speaker 3: just working and catching up with friends and family and
Speaker 3: kind of I guess what I would normally do when
Speaker 3: I'm when I'm home, And we kind of had some
Speaker 3: Milk Records projects, which you know, became the next kind
Speaker 3: of thing to work on. And then I did Gens album,
Speaker 3: and then me and Kurt started talking about our our thing,
Speaker 3: and I kind of made a bit of an effort
Speaker 3: to try to like what we were talking about before,
Speaker 3: how you never do things in your own city, or
Speaker 3: we do, Like I think that we go to a
Speaker 3: lot of like indie rock shows, which is, you know,
Speaker 3: you're in your own little bubble. But yeah, trying to
Speaker 3: got a friend who works at a theater company, and
Speaker 3: every now and then she would get free tickets to
Speaker 3: a show and see if we wanted to go, so
Speaker 3: we'd go along, go along to some theater and I
Speaker 3: think I kind of booked us a couple of tickets
Speaker 3: to the Ballet and and like, oh I love it,
Speaker 3: like I used to go as a kid. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: we went, we saw like some some like a string quartet,
Speaker 3: and I don't know, just doing things that we always
Speaker 3: kind of talk about doing but are too lazy to
Speaker 3: do and or you get too trapped in your own thing.
Speaker 3: And Jen and I kind of work aholics as well,
Speaker 3: so it's like, oh, we'll just we'll just keep on
Speaker 3: working and this thing until nine pm.
Speaker 4: And then you know, it's like.
Speaker 3: There's just no boundaries of work, I think in some
Speaker 3: arts practices.
Speaker 4: Or just the kind of industry.
Speaker 3: So yeah, just making a bit more of an effort
Speaker 3: to spend quality time, and yeah, treat ourselves to because
Speaker 3: I get so inspired by by things like that going
Speaker 3: to the cinema. And I used to get really anxious
Speaker 3: going to the cinema, so I never wanted to go.
Speaker 3: And then when Jen and I got together, she liked it,
Speaker 3: so we'd go on dates to the cinema, and now
Speaker 3: I love it again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, always that you didn't enjoy about the cinema, Oh,
Speaker 2: I think just like is it people like rustling around
Speaker 2: and just the fact that you're wear the fact that
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people watching basically the TV to
Speaker 2: get that which is just stressed.
Speaker 3: No, I love that I love the weirdness of that concept.
Speaker 3: I uh, I just don't I need an asle seat.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so if I if I would go and
Speaker 3: like get trapped in the middle, I didn't like that.
Speaker 2: My wife likes to sit in the front row.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, okay, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: About that because I mean, there are obviously legroom benefits
Speaker 2: you can stretch out, but saw next saw neck. And
Speaker 2: also it's it's no good if you're going to see
Speaker 2: a three D film because you're wearing the glasses. You
Speaker 2: can't you don't get any of the three D.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you get to see So.
Speaker 2: I swear people some people do just come to make
Speaker 2: noise just to deliberately annoy other people, even if I
Speaker 2: have got some, I don't. I'm not. Do you take snacks.
Speaker 2: I don't really taken.
Speaker 4: I do Jen love snacks.
Speaker 3: But we have this, we have this constant battle because
Speaker 3: she doesn't care making noise, and I'm really self conscious
Speaker 3: of making noise for other people.
Speaker 2: So you're really carefully past that backet.
Speaker 3: I like when in once with a.
Speaker 4: Chop top.
Speaker 3: Yeah you know, yeah, everyone that's truck ups right, And
Speaker 3: I didn't eat it because we got in and the
Speaker 3: first part of the movie was so quiet, and I
Speaker 3: was too afraid to open it and then eat it
Speaker 3: because it's all the crunching, and so I just sat
Speaker 3: there with it and she she was like you.
Speaker 4: Why didn't you eat it? Like why do you care
Speaker 4: so much?
Speaker 2: And I'm also cinema, Like, sweets are really expensive, aren't they. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you buy to treat that it is a tree. It's
Speaker 2: part of the experience. Sometimes I buy. Sometimes I do
Speaker 2: go to the shop that's next door to the cinema,
Speaker 2: buy some popcorn and hide it in my jacket. And
Speaker 2: I'm always a little bit worried about getting busted as
Speaker 2: you walk in to give your ticket, as if they're
Speaker 2: going to say, like, we are aware that you're carrying.
Speaker 2: It's always a little bit. They always have a little
Speaker 2: bit of the fear. I've never been caught. What was
Speaker 2: the last film you sortly loved?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: We saw the other day in Cologne, Germany. We saw
Speaker 3: the new Black Panther film, which was great. It was
Speaker 3: you know, English with German subtitles.
Speaker 4: Not the other way around. That was great.
Speaker 3: I keep meaning every time I'm away, I really want to.
Speaker 3: I always mean to go and see like a film
Speaker 3: in French in France, in French with English subtitles and
Speaker 3: just sit there by myself with like a little red
Speaker 3: wine or something, and but yeah, I always forget. Before that,
Speaker 3: we went and saw Call Me by Your Name. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I didn't know much about it and we kind of
Speaker 3: randomly picked it as a little date night film. And yeah,
Speaker 3: it was perfect.
Speaker 2: I've not seen all of the Oscar contenders yet. That's
Speaker 2: one of them, isn't it for best film? I thought
Speaker 2: it was superb, really really good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the chemistry, it was very sensual. The whole film
Speaker 3: was really Actually he was in Ladybirth. That's another film
Speaker 3: I saw.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, is that good. Yeah, I like that a lot,
Speaker 4: so many films.
Speaker 3: The greatest thing about having to make that big flight
Speaker 3: back and forth to Australia is catching up on lots
Speaker 3: of films.
Speaker 2: I was filmed slightly the words not sorry, but I
Speaker 2: do kind of feel for artists that over in the
Speaker 2: UK where you were coming from Australia, because you can't
Speaker 2: just like pop pome can. Yeah, you are actually got
Speaker 2: to go back to the other side of the world. Yeah,
Speaker 2: when you get on the plane, do you just gorge
Speaker 2: on films? Is that your thing? Is that how you
Speaker 2: get through that twenty four hour journey.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I've tried to do other things, like I try to work,
Speaker 3: or I try to write or read, but everything is
Speaker 3: too hard, I think, and I hate reading being when
Speaker 3: everyone's sleeping, being the only one with that really bright
Speaker 3: light on, and.
Speaker 4: It's like the cinema imlet.
Speaker 2: I can't. I've never woken up the person next to
Speaker 2: me if they're asleep and I need to go to
Speaker 2: the toilet, I can't do it. It's too awkward.
Speaker 4: I need the aisle. Yeah, yeah, same as the cinema.
Speaker 3: I can't just have a panic attack if I'm stuck
Speaker 3: in the in the not aisle.
Speaker 2: It's making me feel nervous just thinking about now, like
Speaker 2: tapping the stranger on the show. Can I go to
Speaker 2: the toilet?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you just got to jump Clive over.
Speaker 2: We've not really talked about your new album yet. Your
Speaker 2: new album is called Tell Me how You Really Feel?
Speaker 2: Is it tell me how you really feel? Or is
Speaker 2: it tell me how you really feel?
Speaker 4: Because I was reading it earlier, I.
Speaker 2: Was know it feels like the kind of title that
Speaker 2: you could The words are ambiguous and cold in different ways.
Speaker 2: Is that a deliberate thing.
Speaker 3: That's kind of the intention. Yeah, I think it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: at different points in my life, you know, it's me
Speaker 3: asking the question, and it's other people asking the question
Speaker 3: of me, and it's earnest and it's sarcastic, and yeah,
Speaker 3: I think it can be all of those things.
Speaker 2: The ten songs that have ended up on this new album,
Speaker 2: were they the ten songs that you wrote for it,
Speaker 2: or did you sit down and write some songs and
Speaker 2: stop writing those songs and write some new ones or
Speaker 2: how did it all come?
Speaker 4: Aboun?
Speaker 3: I wrote a handful that I probably threw away, but normally,
Speaker 3: normally I try to stick with them and turn them into,
Speaker 3: you know, better versions of themselves. But yeah, I was
Speaker 3: writing a lot of kind of folk songs. I guess
Speaker 3: I was playing around with my little harmonica, and some
Speaker 3: of them kind of kind of edged in, like walking
Speaker 3: on eggshells.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: There's one other song we recorded that didn't end up
Speaker 3: on the album. I just felt like it didn't fit,
Speaker 3: and ten songs felt quite symmetrical.
Speaker 5: Nice you wrote the lyrics on a typewriter, Yes, some
Speaker 5: of them. Yeah, that been made into a bigger thing
Speaker 5: than I actually is. Yeah, Okay, made this new album
Speaker 5: using just the type.
Speaker 4: Yeah, everyone's asked me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got given a typewriter of an old friend,
Speaker 3: and I wrote, my mom, you know, used to write
Speaker 3: on typewriter as.
Speaker 4: A kid, and I loved it.
Speaker 3: I would always jump onto her typewriter and write stories
Speaker 3: before we you know, got a computer, and and so yeah,
Speaker 3: I got this new one and just loved it. And
Speaker 3: I kind of I think I I use just different
Speaker 3: just to to trick the brain into productivity, like to
Speaker 3: jump to different writing stations. And yeah, I'd write like
Speaker 3: an hour on typewriter or something, and you just see
Speaker 3: how it changes the rhythm and the speed kind of
Speaker 3: slows you down a bit, and it's a bit clunky,
Speaker 3: and you kind of come out with these half half
Speaker 3: written sentences because your fingers can't keep up with your brain.
Speaker 4: And hard, isn't it?
Speaker 2: Typewriter?
Speaker 4: I like? I like it? So it was.
Speaker 3: It was a good, a good kind of part of
Speaker 3: the whole exercise.
Speaker 2: I guess I've got this vision of you typing your
Speaker 2: lyrics and kind of as if you're in a sort
Speaker 2: of newspaper office in Chicago.
Speaker 4: The green visor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, just like type away and you know, not
Speaker 2: that one like kind of pulling it out, chucking over
Speaker 2: your shoulder into a waste paper bin basket behind you.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's a collection of songs that definitely
Speaker 2: have a sense of like frustration and definitely like to
Speaker 2: term nation and vulnerability and sadness and whole collection of
Speaker 2: different feelings. So was it a was it an album
Speaker 2: that came easily to you when in terms of the
Speaker 2: subject content, or was it a real kind of inward
Speaker 2: look at yourself.
Speaker 4: I think the ladder it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of it was kind of just dwelling
Speaker 3: on and trying to kind of really get to the
Speaker 3: bottom of a lot of those just a lot of
Speaker 3: those kind of behavioral patterns that I would I feel myself,
Speaker 3: you know, practicing forever since I was a teenager, kind
Speaker 3: of the same thought patterns of negativity or just those
Speaker 3: kind of self esteem or even just that pattern of
Speaker 3: apologizing for nothing, just that weird kind of apologizing for
Speaker 3: having an opinion for existing. It's I think I realized
Speaker 3: how kind of damaging it is to my self esteem,
Speaker 3: so I tried to kind of catch myself doing it.
Speaker 3: And yeah, so I mean that doesn't really answer your question,
Speaker 3: But that's a snippet of the stuff.
Speaker 4: It was kind of all all that stuff.
Speaker 3: That is up there, and but then the kind of
Speaker 3: bigger I don't know, the world. I think I was
Speaker 3: feeling a lot of sadness for the world, which yeah,
Speaker 3: sounds a bit pathetic, but instead of doing something about it,
Speaker 3: and you know, being sad doesn't feel very very helpful.
Speaker 3: I think that was me trying to kind of find
Speaker 3: a way to turn that sadness and.
Speaker 4: Anger, like a lot of anger just for the.
Speaker 3: Kind of inequality of everything and kind of all those
Speaker 3: things that I don't know, we're just really upsetting me,
Speaker 3: I think the last couple of years, and trying to
Speaker 3: find a way to turn that into some sort of
Speaker 3: positive and useful thing instead of just swallowing.
Speaker 2: How did you find that process of articulating that very difficult?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, I don't even know if I
Speaker 3: got there, but it was a kind of step in
Speaker 3: the right direction, I think, and I feel I came
Speaker 3: out of it feeling pretty optimistic actually from from where
Speaker 3: I was, and quite kind of empowered. And I was
Speaker 3: reading a lot and listening to a lot of a
Speaker 3: lot of different music and just yeah, just feel like
Speaker 3: pretty inspired to continue existing and making stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got Kim and Kelly dial on the record
Speaker 2: from the Breeders. Yeah, just tell me how you got
Speaker 2: them involved, because that's exciting.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was really really happy.
Speaker 3: I met Kim a couple of years ago doing.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 4: We on a phone call.
Speaker 3: We did a podcast called Talkast, which is awesome, and
Speaker 3: and so we kind of got on well. And then
Speaker 3: we stayed in touch and just email each other regularly.
Speaker 4: And I was in.
Speaker 3: Town and and they dropped into the Breeders making the
Speaker 3: album in the studio and they needed some some vocals
Speaker 3: on a song, so we did that. And then and
Speaker 3: then when I was doing my album, I Kim was like,
Speaker 3: let me know if you ever need some some vocals
Speaker 3: in return for the other vocals.
Speaker 4: So I sent.
Speaker 3: Them this song and and Kim and Kelly sang some
Speaker 3: some oh two songs. But yeah, so that was great.
Speaker 3: I think it sounds so good. Their voices sounds so good.
Speaker 3: It's just such interesting, Yeah, just such great musicians like that.
Speaker 3: Even the harmony choices are weird, really weird, but really perfect.
Speaker 2: A real buzz to have something like the Breeders and
Speaker 2: the record as well, it's so good.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The album ends with a song called Sunday Roast. Tell
Speaker 2: me about how that's about Sunday roasts and such a
Speaker 2: British thing, Sunday roast. We're obsessed. Yeah, just tell me
Speaker 2: a bit about that song.
Speaker 3: It's kind of Australian as well. Well, you know, I guess, well, no.
Speaker 4: We'll give you that.
Speaker 2: Australians they have a Sunday roast.
Speaker 3: Yeah, growing up I remember we do a lot. But anyway,
Speaker 3: recently we a group of friends in my kind of neighborhood.
Speaker 3: There was a group text that was the Sunday Roast
Speaker 3: group text, and we'd kind of swap around houses each
Speaker 3: week or not every week, whenever everyone was around, and
Speaker 3: you know, that person would cook the majority of the
Speaker 3: of the roast, big veggie roast as well, and people
Speaker 3: would bring bits and it was just this really simple
Speaker 3: community friends catching up, being there for each other. Kind
Speaker 3: of it's pretty for the majority, pretty positive, but I
Speaker 3: think parts of kind of touch on just watching people
Speaker 3: back to the you know, the general theme, the morose
Speaker 3: theme of the album of just kind of watching friends
Speaker 3: suffer and not not knowing how to deal with things
Speaker 3: and as a friend trying to trying to navigate how
Speaker 3: to be of of assistance or be of service of
Speaker 3: some sort, and but but mostly how that can kind
Speaker 3: of be achieved in just that kind of togetherness, which is, yeah,
Speaker 3: it was, I didn't I didn't mean to ended on
Speaker 3: the album ends, you know, on a really optimistic No.
Speaker 3: I think because of that song and the fade out
Speaker 3: kind of leaves you fading into optimism, which is which
Speaker 3: is really really nice, that kind of hopefulness as opposed
Speaker 3: to the first song, which is kind of hopeless.
Speaker 4: So it is about Sunday riasts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, are you good at making a Sunday roast? No?
Speaker 4: I can't cook. No, No.
Speaker 2: And what's your favorite part of Sunday roast?
Speaker 4: Garlic? Just like who you're going to say?
Speaker 2: It was not garlic.
Speaker 3: I just love the whole Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2: How can you? It's got to be the roast. Potato,
Speaker 2: isn't it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're good, they're good. Yeah. Broccoli love it? Yeah, Carrots, Yeah, gravy.
Speaker 3: We'd have because a majority of us are vegetarian, we
Speaker 3: kind of we've got a good mix of veggies. What's
Speaker 3: that thing that's kind of like a coulieflower, But it's got.
Speaker 4: A weird name. Do you know that?
Speaker 2: Do you have that here?
Speaker 3: It's kind of like it looks a bit like an
Speaker 3: evil you know in cartoons when there's like the good
Speaker 3: guy and then the bad guy is kind of the
Speaker 3: same but slightly more like pointed features and a bit
Speaker 3: more is an evil? Yeah, evil cauliflower. I hope someone
Speaker 3: knows what it is and.
Speaker 2: Somebody will be able to tell us. I don't know
Speaker 2: what the evil cauliflower is.
Speaker 3: It's really nice, so like a whole roasted one of them.
Speaker 2: What's your what's your opinion on the Yorkshire put in?
Speaker 4: Ah?
Speaker 3: What's that again?
Speaker 2: Like the battered sort of the round sort of battered.
Speaker 2: I don't know. How do you just like a pancake?
Speaker 2: Isn't it okay? That maybe is the British part of
Speaker 2: the rest there isn't sweet?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of. And then if you go to British
Speaker 2: festivals do this thing now where they'll serve a roast
Speaker 2: dinner in a giant Yorkshire pudd in, so it'll be
Speaker 2: like the size of a dinner plate, and then everything
Speaker 2: will be chucked in, including the gravy. You see people
Speaker 2: at festivals trying to eat it. And just like dropping
Speaker 2: it down themselves.
Speaker 3: What's that weird soup thing you guys do? Like a
Speaker 3: pie and a soup?
Speaker 4: Do you do that here? I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe someone tricked me, I ye.
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